NationStates Jolt Archive

OOC:

I've been scouting around Sol for a location to build a small base, and have settled on the Jovian moon of Io for various reasons. Having done a forum search and not finding any mention of it in either NationStates or International Incidents, I assume its open.

However we haven't been on Jolt that long, so I think its best that I put out some feelers. If you have a claim to Io I would appreciate it if you would post it here. But there's a few rules. First off, no seeing this thread and posting "I own Io!" if you've never had anything to do with it. Secondly I want to see proof that you own it, whether it be in a RP or a factbook or whatever. Other than those 2 requirments its pretty simple.

OOC:

Then I'm going to have to ask you take another look -- The Non-Democratic Alliance has holdings there; A protectorate and ToY member Menelmacar particularly. Furthermore the moon of Europa and Thebe are occupied to the exclusion of all newcomers. I recommend you look elsewhere than the Jovian system.

I'm sure those nations in particular will be pleased to reiterate what I've said once they become aware of your interest.

A comprehensive IC post regarding the political structure of Jupiter in general, including the rather... Tense situation on Io (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7785216&postcount=24).

I'm sure NDA-members (Tsaraine in particular) can provide sufficient links to the origins of said political structure, too.

OOC: Ya, and from personal expirience, don't put overly large weapons on Io, okay? It doesn't end well.

OOC: Just about everything inside the solar system of Sol has been claimed. Although some of the owners may no longer exist.

Not an FT...but I've been around long enough to know that.

Just a point, I also own Himalia and Lysithia in addition to Leda.
Basic guide to Jupiter's moons, RL and not IC of course (http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/astronomy/planets/jupiter/moons.shtml)
I once tried to compile a map of the Jovian system, but it's too occupied to even begin :(

OOC: Ya, and from personal expirience, don't put overly large weapons on Io, okay? It doesn't end well.

ROFL!

Thank's Angst, I'll read up on that soon as possible.

Truth be told I never planned on putting a giant laser or anything on it, I wanted Io due to its geothermal activity. I planned on constructing some sort of giant geothermal electric plant thing (I need to look it up to get the correct name) which would be used in the creation of fuel for my ships.

Jupiter and Saturn have enough moons that one of them has to be at least marginally unoccupied, and if worst comes to worst I'll simply drag an asteroid into orbit.

That post was helpful, even if Akira's method of talking is damn infuriating. I hate diplomatic tones. I don't personally I know any nation in the NDA, I think, so that leaves Menelmacari and Melkor Unchained as possible "doorways". Of them the latter is probably the better choice, though neither is probably going to be too friendly. Oh well, worth a shot.

Thanks again.

Jupiter and Saturn have enough moons that one of them has to be at least marginally unoccupied, and if worst comes to worst I'll simply drag an asteroid into orbit.Problem: 1. Saturn is kinda... ToY territory, and 2. Jupiter would have, well, me bitching (As I don't want you there, ICly), together with Kaenei (Admittedly, getting the Territory from someone who is already there would reduce the bitching).

And heck, I was already bitching at Mars...

As for the remaining places... Uranus has Taurenor (Elvish), wont like you. Neptune has Moontian (Me, too, but that are minor holdings), and since he is in the same friggin alliance you're in, it would be the obvious choice...

So, a Kuiper Belt object would possibly be the best choice... Ok, so it would be all out in the middle of nowhere. For a trade outpost near the centers, well, grab some asteorid in the belt between Mars & Jupiter, hollow it out, make it your base.

Easiest thing, really.

Problems with Neptune are two fold. One its almost as far out there as the Kupier Belt and Oort cloud and doesn't really help my freighters with their fuel problems. Second problem is also two fold (would that make 3 problems?): I haven't seen Moontian in months and I believe there was some sort of diplomatic spat between our two countries.

The asteroid's problem is energy. The main source of Skeelzanian energy are fusion reactors which get bigger the more powerful they become. Rather big actually.

...

Bell just rang for class, I'll have to give a better answer in a few hours.

If you're really desperate for Jovian territory I suppose I could spare one moon, although ICly I'm rather cheesed off at having Vendetta on me, so you'd have to be convincing.

The asteroid's problem is energy. The main source of Skeelzanian energy are fusion reactors which get bigger the more powerful they become. Rather big actually.... So? If somethign can power a ship, a sufficiently increased amount of resources shouldn't have a problem producing enough energy for an asteorid.

Except of course that you meant 'Size increases faster than output', but in this case, 1. Many smaller ones and 2. The asteorid (Or simply a station, but I find an asteorid to be more practical) is kinda unlikely to need full blown STL/& FTL drives, thus it requires distinctly less energy...

If you're really desperate for Jovian territory I suppose I could spare one moon, although ICly I'm rather cheesed off at having Vendetta on me, so you'd have to be convincing.Heh, one thing for Sabrina to mention during the Party on your cruiser... "Btw, we would love if you would keep your Jovian Holdings for yourself and possibly supported a 'Limited Entry' Policy... In exchange for $Interesting_Offer..."

If you're ever going to continue it, anyway.

Yes, my apologies. I've little time during exams. I'll try and get it done tonight, as soon as I've finished my dinner...

To complete the list of refrerences.....

Luna (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Luna) has someone or someones on it, but I don't remember who exactly.

Mars (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Mars) is obviously carved up between two dozen or so states, and has been for some time. Its two moons are also occupied.

Venus (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Venus) is split between C'tan, the Sentient Peoples, Wazzu, Menelmacar and S-14.

Mercury (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Mercury) is home to the Order of the Seraphim and I believe several other nations.

Someone is also residing on Sol (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Sol) itself.

Quite a few people on Luna. I'm there as is Menelmacar and a number of others.

Quite a few people on Luna. I'm there as is Menelmacar and a number of others.

La mappe, s'il vous plait?

Ah Luna I havn't used my base there for years hell last time I did I was constructing a portion of my Hell's Fury Super Battleship. Though sol is one of the most crouded systems in NS so I'd be surprised if you could snag a spot on Io

... So? If somethign can power a ship, a sufficiently increased amount of resources shouldn't have a problem producing enough energy for an asteorid.

Except of course that you meant 'Size increases faster than output', but in this case, 1. Many smaller ones and 2. The asteorid (Or simply a station, but I find an asteorid to be more practical) is kinda unlikely to need full blown STL/& FTL drives, thus it requires distinctly less energy...

As I was saying, yes my reactors tend to get larger in size rather than power. They work fine on my ships which are generally rather large anyway, but wouldn't generate the power I need now. You see, what the power for is to manufacture AM chips, which are the standard fuel for Skeelzanian engines. Onboard reactors don't have the power to create the chips, instead their manufactured at a central location and shipped to fleet bases.

La mappe, s'il vous plait?

Last I checked, there isn't a full territorial map of Luna. I do know exactly where my colony is and could point it out on an RL moonmap...well, if I referenced my notes, anyway. Someone might have a map?

For the record, an accord was reached concerning the forces on Io. Without approval of all the parties currently involved there, there will be no new additions. Thread found here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=384779) for reference. We've had too much fuss over the thing. Granted, the actual treaty has been benched due to other concerns, but there is an 'understanding' and a current ban on any further inclusions.

Best of luck in your endeavors all the same - sorry we can't help you there.

For the record, an accord was reached concerning the forces on Io. Without approval of all the parties currently involved there, there will be no new additions. Thread found here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=384779) for reference. We've had too much fuss over the thing. Granted, the actual treaty has been benched due to other concerns, but there is an 'understanding' and a current ban on any further inclusions.

Best of luck in your endeavors all the same - sorry we can't help you there.

Hmmmm. Maybe I can trick Menelmacar into allowing a small plot to be sold to a private corporation. Or find my own planetoid, drag it roughly to the same height of Io and let Jupiter's gravitational field do its work. It'll probably be ready in a million years or so...

Trick nothing - Menelmacar isn't allowed to let -any- new presence on Io. Nor are the rest of us. Period. That's the whole point of this accord business. Menelmacar is there due to the original owner, Burninatonia, allowing her a bit of space. As he did Melkor. And Burning Mountain. Burninantonia was an NDA member until the fall of Lucius Lancaster, at which time it became by agreement, an NDA protectorate.

While I'm sure each individual nation feels they are there and a presence on the moon in their own right, you can see how tangled the politics there can get, yes?

I think I speak for all of us there on Io in saying we wouldn't appreciate any 'planetoids' in relatively close proximity to the moon either. We've all been terribly touchy about new neighbors.

In addition, you have the Jovian League and all the other powers still active in the Jupiter system overall - several have already posted in this thread, for example. Before making any changes there, or hauling things in to add to the mix, it's probably best to check. There are more than a few 'cautions' nations involved in the area.

Chances are they don't like me anyway. The fact that Menelmacar ICly has a stick up their butt over a incident they had no involvement in doesn't help.

Also if I ever seriously went through my "Io 2" scheme it would probably be placed in opposite orbit. It doesn't help anyone if the two things smack into eachother.

Just as a straw poll, would any of you be opposed to the construction of an (basically) giant windmill somewhere on Jupiter? Say, somewhere remote like one of the poles? I don't think Skeelzania has the right technology to build it, but I'd like to see how touchy you people get.

*goes rummaging through his books*

To a windmill, not necessarily.

To a Skeelzanian windmill, very much so (I know you don't like diplomacy. Unfortunately, such doesn't help Skeelzania's case. At all. Yay the posts on Mars and all).

To a windmill, not necessarily.

To a Skeelzanian windmill, very much so (I know you don't like diplomacy. Unfortunately, such doesn't help Skeelzania's case. At all. Yay the posts on Mars and all).

The dislike of diplomacy comes more from lousy dialogue-writing than anything else. Of course, being an isolated backwater in dangerous space for most of its history Skeelzania has come to rely heavily on gunboat diplomacy.

Guess I'll have to find a big-enough rock to fit all my reactors and park it in Solar orbit. Gonna have to station a whole damn DIED battlegroup around it in this system.

Skeelzania, perhaps you'd like to be part of Project Heinlein?

Guess I'll have to find a big-enough rock to fit all my reactors and park it in Solar orbit. Gonna have to station a whole damn DIED battlegroup around it in this system.

Don't go putting fleets where they don't belong. Skeelzania has no need for Solar holdings.

Regards,
a friend

Or even better, Skeelz, how about some holding on Earth?

Gimme a break. With the way NSEarth works, you could have a hundred billion Ios, Jupiters, and what not all over the place, and it would make no difference. Its the same sort of game as "on Earth". If I want a moon "untouched by human feet" in an RP *poof* there it is.

Claiming a planet in the system is as strange as claiming France.

To complete the list of refrerences.....

Luna (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Luna) has someone or someones on it, but I don't remember who exactly.

Mars (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Mars) is obviously carved up between two dozen or so states, and has been for some time. Its two moons are also occupied.

Venus (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Venus) is split between C'tan, the Sentient Peoples, Wazzu, Menelmacar and S-14.

Mercury (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Mercury) is home to the Order of the Seraphim and I believe several other nations.

Someone is also residing on Sol (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Sol) itself.

Let me clear this up on my part.

Wazzu's holdings are quite extensive.

On Earth, Wazzu holds the upper 2/3rds of Sweden, an (invented) island in the Caribbean, and a small, barren, hellish chunk of Arda. It also has ownership of a small portion of a trade station there, and a large portion of the old ISS.

On Luna, Wazzu holds the old Derkesthai Complex in the now defunct ISAF_Lunar_Region (which probably no longer exists). Wazzu's only real shipyard is in polar orbit of Luna.

On Venus, Wazzu owns a fair sized territory, though nothing like what Menelmacar, S-14, or perhaps some others have. It also was a large contributer to (and planner of) that ring you see in the picture. A fair sized space station orbits it.

On Mars, Wazzu owns two smallish territories, one coastal and one waterbound. It also has a very large orbiting station and a Wazzu companie commercially owns land on Deimos and Phoebos.

Wazzu has a station orbiting Jupiter, the smaller half a hydrogen mining station built by Wazzu, the much larger half (or 80%) captured.

In addition, Wazzu has colonized several asteroids, comets, Oort Cloud and Keiser Belt objects, and even a few Rogue Bodies in the Sol system.

Wazzu diplomatically "rents" some territory from Valinon in the Alpha Centauri system as a trade post and is the only nation to currently have a presence (A research station) in the "Bernard's Star" System (actually a binary red dwarf system). It also has a small but growing presence in the Sunset discovered GEC-42 system.

Quite spread out you see. Most other then Sweden is fairly lightly inhabited, but still, spread out.

I know that Menelmacar also has a presence on LUNA, also in the ISAF_Lunar_Region...a presence that predates Wazzu's (back to when the ISAF was a ligitimate and well known alliance).

Most of the Sol System is taken. I am sure there are still many asteroids and such to inhabit, but if you want more then that, you'll either have to fight for it or go to Earth II or some such.

Of course, you could just pick a nearby starsystem and colonize it...but that requires the minute amount of work of finding a list of nearby stars online (easy) and doing a forum and region search to see if someone else is in a particular system (easy).

Gimme a break. With the way NSEarth works, you could have a hundred billion Ios, Jupiters, and what not all over the place, and it would make no difference. Its the same sort of game as "on Earth". If I want a moon "untouched by human feet" in an RP *poof* there it is.

Claiming a planet in the system is as strange as claiming France.No real point in such when you want a trade outpost.

Since, ya'know, the existence of your outpost wouldn't be recognised by your neighbors.

You would be all alone in the night, with a shiny ego-boosting Moon all for yourself, and more or less nobody to interact with.

Kind of defeats the point, really.

EDIT: Mind, seeing NS sheer size, I am somewhat allergic against claiming entire planets, simply because it can result in lots of unpleasant bitching if someone doesn't know about previous structures and just starts a thread. But once you do know, you should deal with said present structures... Everything else's kinda... Poor.

You assume the point is to interact with "this particular set of people in this particular set of circumstances". BIG assumption.

Besides which - wait a year. Half these nations won't exist anymore. The universe recycles.

What *else* would be the point of a trade station in sol? 'Sides, see the edit.

And finally, what the future brings is pretty much irrelevant for the present. AND most of the nations I mentioned in the IC post linked above are older than two years.

Mercury (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Mercury) is home to the Order of the Seraphim and I believe several other nations.

Just one other nation: The Caloris Basin. Of the Order nations, I believe only Vrak has actually RP'd on Mercury. Austar Union is trying to get some territory, though.

Actually, several nations RP the actual Mercury holdings behind the "Seraphim Military" guise, myself included. We like to switch off as each finds a more important self development thread to work on.

Back to the original question - yeah, there are buttloads of people on just about any solar body you can think of. I'm sure theres a someone or many someones on (the new) "planet X", just incase RL scientists ever agree on its designation as a planet.

Actually, several nations RP the actual Mercury holdings behind the "Seraphim Military" guise, myself included.I stand corrected.

Back to the original question - yeah, there are buttloads of people on just about any solar body you can think of. I'm sure theres a someone or many someones on (the new) "planet X", just incase RL scientists ever agree on its designation as a planet.Sedna? I know Freod and Nathicana have holdings on it. I think Reploid Productions is there too. Not sure who else. And, oddly enough, tCB went to Mercury because nobody was there. That didn't last very long, heh.

Pretty much everything has someone on it, yes. However, most people don't claim entire moons or planets, and you could probably get some land if you play your cards right. Granted, there are exceptions to the rule (Io, Mars, Mercury, Venus, Titan...) but there's a lot of moons out there to get a little bit of a holding. Also: asteroids, Oort Cloud and Kuiper Belt bodies are pretty much unlimited (actual named ones are probably claimed, but...), and nobody's likely to complain if you you happen to find one that fits your needs perfectly.

I'm not sure on the status of Jupiter, Jupiter's moons (save Europa, which I believe Sketch has), Uranus (I believe the nation with the biggest claim is non-extant), Uranus' moons, Neptune, Neptune's moons, Pluto and Charon. I know someone has Pluto/Charon, but I don't know the extent of their claim.

I stand corrected.

Sedna? I know Freod and Nathicana have holdings on it. I think Reploid Productions is there too. Not sure who else. And, oddly enough, tCB went to Mercury because nobody was there. That didn't last very long, heh.

Pretty much everything has someone on it, yes. However, most people don't claim entire moons or planets, and you could probably get some land if you play your cards right. Granted, there are exceptions to the rule (Io, Mars, Mercury, Venus, Titan...) but there's a lot of moons out there to get a little bit of a holding. Also: asteroids, Oort Cloud and Kuiper Belt bodies are pretty much unlimited (actual named ones are probably claimed, but...), and nobody's likely to complain if you you happen to find one that fits your needs perfectly.

I'm not sure on the status of Jupiter, Jupiter's moons (save Europa, which I believe Sketch has), Uranus (I believe the nation with the biggest claim is non-extant), Uranus' moons, Neptune, Neptune's moons, Pluto and Charon. I know someone has Pluto/Charon, but I don't know the extent of their claim.

Sketch is in possession of exactly half of Europa-- The Northern Hemisphere. I am in possession and control of The Southern Hemisphere.

Sketch is in possession of exactly half of Europa-- The Northern Hemisphere. I am in possession and control of The Southern Hemisphere.
Uf. I bet the equator is a rather tense place... ;)

Don't go putting fleets where they don't belong. Skeelzania has no need for Solar holdings.

Regards,
a friend

Hmph. I bet your a "friend", probably one of the Keeblers. Skeelzania will have their refueling station and they will defend it. But to keep the Solars from freaking out and launching pre-emptive ignores, I took it upon myself to design an entirely new branch to my military, the DIED. Aside from border security issues they are strictly for RPing in Sol or the general area. The link in my sig goes to the factbook, with stats and numbers. And pretty pictures I made in DoGA.

Or even better, Skeelz, how about some holding on Earth?

As the original purpose of the outpost was the creation of Antimatter chips I doubt Earth nations would want it on their soil.

The Dominion doesn't have any holdings on Sedna, but I'm pretty sure Rep and SneakyB and Freod and other folks do.

Officially, the Dominion has their original Earth location, the Machiavelli Station at Saturn's L4 point, a colony in Sunset's Ares system, Ring holdings, a small colony on Titan, interests on Io, and Sslaa II.

I think that's pretty much it.

As for comments on who can and can't claim what, of course folks are free to claim whatever within their rp groupings. It's when two groups who claim a thing come into contact that problems can arise. *shrugs* Most of where that all can go has already been laid out by others. I'm certain that there are several factions who have claims to some of the same things I do here - point is, I've not seen 'em and we obviously don't interact. The game is simply too big to expect otherwise. Not gonna lose any sleep over it.

However, when someone outright asks, sure, I'll put in my $.02 on it. Which reminds me.

Vastiva: if he didn't care about possible interaction, why would he bother asking? Not really that much of a stretch there so please, no need to get all snotty about it. Not sure what's got your knickers in a twist if you think such claims are rubbish anyways, or if you're not involved - which in reading, it seems you aren't. Did I miss where you had something of content to add to the discussion, or is this just an opportunity for you to offer up negativity and spite just because you can? Honestly now.

Besides, your analogy doesn't make sense. There aren't, after all, so far as we know, other living beings on said planets to contest any such claims now, are there? In any case, see again several folk's explanations on that. Including mine. And feel free to continue operating however you like well outside the accepted Dominion corner of Broken Reality.

After all, nothing says any of us have to play with any other player out there at all. It's a matter of choice, and understanding that the choices we make may well effect what choices other folks make in regards to us. Part of that whole 'cooperative rp' business, you know. No one in this game is so big and influential that everyone does, or ought to recognize 'em ic'ly. No one. Some have built up decent enough cred with larger groups of folks, however. Not to suggest 'more' equals 'legitimacy', but if it came down to who supports who in a claim 'war', it could get interesting. More choice and accountability stuff there. I guess it depends on where you play, and with whom really. *shrugs*

And now that I've totally started rambling due to being tired out of my ever-lovin' mind ... I'm out.

Here's the point:

Nine planets, about three hundred moons total.

Nearly 800,000 players, more or less.

My point here is the same one it is on NSEarth - claim anything you want, RP it out, and change claims - or make "multiplanar" claims - as much as you like. If you want to play with a group and accept their claims, so much the better. If not, so much the better. Makes no difference, ultimately.

Here's the point:

Nine planets, about three hundred moons total.

Nearly 800,000 players, more or less.

My point here is the same one it is on NSEarth - claim anything you want, RP it out, and change claims - or make "multiplanar" claims - as much as you like. If you want to play with a group and accept their claims, so much the better. If not, so much the better. Makes no difference, ultimately.

If it makes no difference, then why did you post?

"Does someone own Io?"

"Doesn't matter. If you want it, play with it."

Is that clear enough? It's the same question as:

"Does someone own Malta?"

"Doesn't matter. If you want it, play with it."

The OOC reason I want Io is because it would give me a foothold in Sol, which has considerably more good RPers than out in the Sticks where Skeelzania normally is. I can't everywell hope to establish a presence in this system if I'm ignored by 2/3s of it.

Two words: "Space Station"

Two words: "Space Station"

Skeelzanians don't really like space stations for several reasons, mostly cost and vulnerability. They'll use them if they have too, but prefer planet-side bases. And if you'd have read the thread instead of whine about respecting other people's claims, you would see I am planning on following a similar course.

Nearly 800,000 players, more or less. *nitpicks*The world contains 131,298 nations in 16,088 regions.Not that it make s a *real* difference, but still.

Anyway... One option for Skeelzania would possibly be to make a deal with $Sol_Inhabitant with regards to, well, refueling. Right now, Skeelzania is, well, a persona non grata in Sol, and this is hardly going to change overnight. Having some diplomatic/ economic presence within the borders of $Sol_Inhabitant would be a neat temporary solution until the persona non grata status vanishes, this allowing for eventually acquiring some holdings. 'Course, it takes time, but I would consider it sufficient, if the belt-options are not actual options, which they don't seem to be.

The fuel Skeelzanian ships run on is rather select, and its manufacturing method is jealously guarded simply because its ours.

As to striking a deal with a Sol inhabitant (whose was most likely unwittingly placed under Vendetta) it probably won't happen. Skeelzanians are generally too pig-headed to bow down and grovel before other nations in order to improve their own status, and the Mars disaster simply reinforced that notion. Some people very high up are convinced the best way to gain respect is to pick a fight with an even more powerful nation and win, even though its suicide. Skeelzania right now is flushed with victory, having recently smashed their traditional enemy in an all-out Crusade, so the fame by feat-of-arms route looks rather inviting.

Of course this doesn't mean every Skeelzanian going to Sol is a sword-wielding Elf-shooting firebrand convinced his Empress is 1) the direct heiress of God and 2) capable of winning any war no matter how many 5 billion+ nations are on the other side. The leader of my little project is going to be quite the opposite, even though his grandfather was the greatest Skeelzanian admiral since Ianos Skeelzot. And given the lousiness of SKZ FTLc, he'd have alot of autonomy out here.

How about water/supplies?

How about water/supplies?

Standard naval/DIED rations are Food Goo Tubes™, essentially edible toothpaste which can be transported in great bulk. Water can be gotten by reclamation and cracking of He3 (or is it H3? damnit) which is needed to run our fusion reactors in any case. The station wouldn't be entirely self-sufficent, not for a great while anyway.

H3.

As for the fuel, I was actual thinking of a mere... Depot, filled by Skeelzanian transporters, not about native production. But well, if such isn't an option, it isn't.

I once tried to compile a map of the Jovian system, but it's too occupied to even begin :(

I made one once or twice.....fun, but lots of work. Use graph paper, the smaller the squares the better. Put Jupiter in one corner. draw arcs of a quarter circle at the appropriate distance for each moon. Start outward and work your way in, with the number of squares to the outermost moon determining the map scale (i.e. One square=(?)miles, or .(?) AU or .(?)LS or whatever.) If I remember correctly, you will need two maps of different scales -- one for the outer jovian moons and one for the inner, just because of the sheer distances involved. You should be able to put whatever notations you need on one of those maps.

The fuel Skeelzanian ships run on is rather select, and its manufacturing method is jealously guarded simply because its ours....and probably used by at least one Sol nation anyway. However, this:

But to keep the Solars from freaking out and launching pre-emptive ignores,Isn't the best of attitudes, even if it is OOC. It's a tad haughty.

Skeelzanians are generally too pig-headed to bow down and grovel before other nations in order to improve their own status, and the Mars disaster simply reinforced that notion.Now I'm confused. You want to increase your interacting with Sol nations, but you don't want to actually interact? Simply slapping down a private refueling station is exactly chock full of RP potential, you know.

Santa Barbara, or at least certain corporate and military interests in same, technically owns some land on Mars, and a population on Luna.

Menelmacar sold their Lunar holdings to someone. TRD or someone like that.

I have to disagree with Vastiva. Yes you CAN claim your own Jupiter and nothing will stop you, but that incourages everyone to live in their own private worlds where they own it all and not have to interact diplomatically or compete for limited resources, which is IMO what the fun in political RPing is all about.

And the Gas Giants are overrated anyway. Buncha hot air is all it is!

Menelmacar sold me some of their Lunar holdings. They still have plenty.

And the Gas Giants are overrated anyway. Buncha hot air is all it is!But lots of it!

Well, if you're interested in Mars territory I'm sure something could be arranged regarding a certain bit of land that's not particularly interesting to the FDK at the moment despite being in its posession. IC-wise it'd probably be a joint development sphere with non-military assets only clause, but it'd be more than enough for a refueling station for ground-capable ships, and with some work fuel for orbital ships could be sent to orbit without that much more cost. Considering the anti-elf proclamation of your representatives any outright sale of land is out of the question, naturally, but because the FDK is not purely quendi, it'd consider something like a mutual partnership over some territory.

Storagewise the FDK will also start work on a Terra-based station and a maybe (assuming no one objects) a Mars-based station in order to take pressure off limited ground facilities and to make it easier for crago and passengers to be transferred between large interstellar ships and planetary craft.

The FDK is predominantly "xeno" though.

...and probably used by at least one Sol nation anyway. However, this:

Isn't the best of attitudes, even if it is OOC. It's a tad haughty.

Now I'm confused. You want to increase your interacting with Sol nations, but you don't want to actually interact? Simply slapping down a private refueling station is exactly chock full of RP potential, you know.

Darn quotes never work out right.

1) The fuel SKZ ships use in their engines are called antimatter flochips, which is comprised of an individual antihydrogen locked in a sort of microchip. Its safer than storing kegs of AM around, but they require specialized engines to run (mine, incidentally).

2) The normal Skeelzanian Navy is typical of what you'd find in the 'outer reaches' of space RP. In other words big, cap-ship heavy, and almost entirely out of whack with my actual population size. IIRC there are seven 2.5km+ long battleships in the fleet dossier. Now if the recent ESUS action on Mars was any indication people around here don't like being smacked with 2500 meter warships on a regular basis. My new Navy (the DIED) uses both smaller and more lightly armored ships in smaller numbers to avoid me being called a wanker.

3) I would like to have interaction, but the Skeelzanians are not going to get on their knees and beg for a plot of land so that said interaction could take place.

<snip>

Couple problems with this proposal. One is that Weyr, like every other Martian nation and the planet itself, was put under Vendetta by the Skeelzanian government following the Duma vote. The second is that alot of the Martian nations, in no uncertain terms, said that they would forcibly remove any Skeelzanian presence on Mars even if it was bought legally from another power.

OOC: Well, you've been given a slew of options all of which are unacceptable to you. The option you most want, space on or around Jupiter, is not available to you. I'm very sorry, but Jovian space is politically unstable. Everybody watches each other like a hawk, and new elements are rather discouraged to avoid tipping the balance of power.

I think your best bet is to place a string of hydrogen collectors around the sun and make regular trips to harvest the results. I would recommend building a space station for your AM chips, even though that somehow leaves you more vulnerable than if you were based on a planet or moon. If you can't have what you want, work with what you have.

OOC: Well, you've been given a slew of options all of which are unacceptable to you. The option you most want, space on or around Jupiter, is not available to you. I'm very sorry, but Jovian space is politically unstable. Everybody watches each other like a hawk, and new elements are rather discouraged to avoid tipping the balance of power.

I think your best bet is to place a string of hydrogen collectors around the sun and make regular trips to harvest the results. I would recommend building a space station for your AM chips, even though that somehow leaves you more vulnerable than if you were based on a planet or moon. If you can't have what you want, work with what you have.

I'm working on the latter option right now.

Here's the thing, RP interaction amongst nations (as in real life) often consists of compromise. Likely, the only way you'll get any quality help, is to use that dirty little word you seem to dislike, diplomacy.

Granted, you don't have to, it is your nation after all.
But then again, no one here has to help you either.

My suggestion, try some diplomacy. Practice is always good, and frankly, you'd be suprised by what it can get you.
As someone mentioned earlier, it's not what you wank, it's how you wank it. You could have 10km long phallic instruments of total doom, and people wouldn't mind if you spent a good amount of time trying diplomacy. If you give a genuine effort to diplomacy first, people are generally going to have less problems with what you're using.

And diplomacy doesn't have to just be cheery smiles and handshakes. You can always be an underhanded, sneaky bastard. Plotting can be quite fun.

<snip>

Skeelzania tried compromise at Mars, going so far as to drop a claim in one nation that was ignored in mid-negotiation to try and gain a plot that would be recognized by most of Mars. All they got was a kick in the face by a bunch of Elves.

Skeelzania tried compromise at Mars, going so far as to drop a claim in one nation that was ignored in mid-negotiation to try and gain a plot that would be recognized by most of Mars. All they got was a kick in the face by a bunch of Elves.
Hint: Don't try for Mars.

TRD: Xenians, yes. Elves, not really.

Well, the problem was the presentation more than the actual fact you hate elves. I don't like humans IC-ly. To be more exact the FDK doesn't like humans who follow a monotheistic religion. But that doesn't mean the FDK walks around proclaiming it hate Christians. Saying you persecute elves, or any other widespread race, for something done XX years ago is an easy way to annoy a lot of Sol powers. Saying there is discrimination against elves but your government is 'working' on the 'problem' at least makes it look better.

Otherwise, you best bet would, yes, be to put collectors around the sun and periodically harvest them. That'd require some major shielding to prevent those collectors and the ships servicing from getting fried over time, but there's a solution to everything.

Proposal-wise, the FDK sees your actions in the Duma as an act of government idiocy and not a representation of corporate action. Assuming it's a commercial zone, and you'd agree not to have actual military forces in the area, I think something could be worked out. Besides, having you surrounded by elves would allow those elves to carefully watch you and make sure you don't slip up.

Skeelzania tried compromise at Mars, going so far as to drop a claim in one nation that was ignored in mid-negotiation to try and gain a plot that would be recognized by most of Mars. All they got was a kick in the face by a bunch of Elves.


I find this particularly hilarious, given your previous statement:

Couple problems with this proposal. One is that Weyr, like every other Martian nation and the planet itself, was put under Vendetta by the Skeelzanian government following the Duma vote. The second is that alot of the Martian nations, in no uncertain terms, said that they would forcibly remove any Skeelzanian presence on Mars even if it was bought legally from another power.

So, for example, the Martian territory of the Serene^Union [Kaenei Mars] is under Vendetta-- even though Kaenei is not a member of the Duma, expressed no opinion on Skeelzania attempts to colonise and neither opposed nor condoned them. So the entirety of Mars was placed under "Vendetta" for the actions of a few Elves, as you put it?

Doesn't sound like Skeelzania know the meaning of the world compromise.

<snip>

Thats the gist of it, really. Of course, considering that Skeelzania has never really negotiated as anything other than a victor in a war and the land-slide vote was quite a shock, the knee-jerk reaction of putting Mars under Vendetta seems appropriate for them. Either that or do a OOC 'F you' which I didn't really want to do.

Thats the gist of it, really. Of course, considering that Skeelzania has never really negotiated as anything other than a victor in a war and the land-slide vote was quite a shock, the knee-jerk reaction of putting Mars under Vendetta seems appropriate for them. Either that or do a OOC 'F you' which I didn't really want to do.


Excellent, let me equally candid then. I take even OOC threats such as yours seriously, so expect an equally involved counter should your "Vendetta" actually ever come to anything.

Vendetta, indeed. If you're going to work that angle, at least do it right.

*gets back to plotting with her lil Italian-esque nation, who has yet to condemn an entire group of nations for the actions of a few*

Alright then. You should know that the Vendetta was not an open declaration of war though. It was basically a warning that "if you ever get into a war opposite of Skeelzania, we'll do our damndest to destroy you". SKZ High Command and the Empress know that they couldn't win a war against every single one of the Vendetta nations all at once, and even a colalition of some of the more powerful ones would beat Skeelzania eventually (especially since I don't intend to invoke the ESUS charter).

Alright then. You should know that the Vendetta was not an open declaration of war though. It was basically a warning that "if you ever get into a war opposite of Skeelzania, we'll do our damndest to destroy you". SKZ High Command and the Empress know that they couldn't win a war against every single one of the Vendetta nations all at once, and even a colalition of some of the more powerful ones would beat Skeelzania eventually (especially since I don't intend to invoke the ESUS charter).

Just out of curiosity, how many nations do you feel are needed to "beat" you? Five "Five Billion" ?

ven·det·ta n.

1. A feud between two families or clans that arises out of a slaying and is perpetuated by retaliatory acts of revenge; a blood feud.
2. A bitter, destructive feud.

[Italian, from Latin vindicta, revenge. See vindictive.]


Let me get this straight. You're naming Mars in entirety in a claim of Vendetta ... for bulling in where you didn't belong in the first place? And you seem to think this isn't some 'declaration of war'? And that it won't have any consequences? You're tossing around a serious idea entirely too lightly.

To those familiar with the situation, yes - I am STILL eternally grateful I am no longer involved on Mars. This is just laughable.

Just out of curiosity, how many nations do you feel are needed to "beat" you? Five "Five Billion" ?

Would depend on how it goes. Here's how I picture a SKZ v. single 5,000,000,000 pop nation war going:

In a system-by-system slugfest where the enemy tries to take and hold planets Skeelzania could probably hold out long enough for a cease-fire and a suitably humiliating treaty. The bulk of the Navy would be destroyed in the opening battle(s), which is pretty much what it was designed for (decisive battle doctrine a.k.a. lack of contingency plan in case of defeat). The DIED fleets, which use faster and (relatively) lighter ships would fall back and fight as long as supplies hold out.

Of course, since Skeelzania has no FTL travel interdictors the war would probably go more like this:

War is declared. Five minutes later an enemy fleet arrives in Spoot Star (our home system) in near point-blank orbit of the homeworld. Ten minutes after that Solomon is obliterated, the legs are knocked out from the Skeelzanian war effort, and the military scatters. I expect the remaining planets would have similar fates, except for Exante which may be conceded back to Coreworlds (the original owner). Of course you'd still have the 40 million Skeelzanians there, unless he tried to move them.

All this talk of Vendettas.....hmmmm, which reminds me.....do you still have it out for me Nathi? I assume you do, since I never really made any moves to rectify the situation.

Question of the day: how does one apologise for killing thousands (millions?) of (univolved) civilians without sounding trite?

Not that I would even think of such a thing of course; I do have an image to uphold ^_~

I'm a little confused here.

First of all, who the Hell mentioned anything about "begging"? Secondly, your attitude seems to be that you want something, but absolutely refuse to put forth any effort towards that goal. Requesting or offering to purchase land is not "begging".

You seem to have an interesting varient of a common problem. Several people have a habit of sticking their nations in hard to reach, easily defended places (another solar system, bottom of the ocean, middle of a radioactive wasteland, etc.) Your varient seems to be of the "GRR ARGH" school. Specifically, you've created a hypermilitaristic and highly billigerent society that refuses to negotiate with anybody for any reason. While this may seem different, it has the same net effect.

So, you've got your nation conflicting with your supposed aims (increased diplomacy). One of them has to give.

All this talk of Vendettas.....hmmmm, which reminds me.....do you still have it out for me Nathi? I assume you do, since I never really made any moves to rectify the situation.

Question of the day: how does one apologise for killing thousands (millions?) of (univolved) civilians without sounding trite?

Not that I would even think of such a thing of course; I do have an image to uphold ^_~

Heh. How about we leave that answer for IC play, hmmm? *smiles sweetly* Given our mindset and society and background ... would we still have you listed in our little Book of Grudges for your treacherous sneak attack on the WorldDisk that took thousands of innocent men, women and children - all while you had been operating under a friendly agreement with the Trium? And then there's the nearly ten thousand more lives that were lost on the ice fields of Europa. You know, those folks who gave up their very humanity by getting all Borg'ed out by the Angelans for the sole purpose of revenge?

Vendetta? Why, I'm sure I haven't the faintest. ;)

I'm a little confused here.

First of all, who the Hell mentioned anything about "begging"? Secondly, your attitude seems to be that you want something, but absolutely refuse to put forth any effort towards that goal. Requesting or offering to purchase land is not "begging".

You seem to have an interesting varient of a common problem. Several people have a habit of sticking their nations in hard to reach, easily defended places (another solar system, bottom of the ocean, middle of a radioactive wasteland, etc.) Your varient seems to be of the "GRR ARGH" school. Specifically, you've created a hypermilitaristic and highly billigerent society that refuses to negotiate with anybody for any reason. While this may seem different, it has the same net effect.

So, you've got your nation conflicting with your supposed aims (increased diplomacy). One of them has to give.

I suppose it'll end violently as the Old Guard tries to remain in power. The War of Succession shook up the social order, especially in the military circles. Most of the Elite/Conservative forces were destroyed in that war, and their replacement (the DIED) are a slightly more liberal bunch. With the Empress up for a stroke in another month or so and her son coming to power there'll probably be another power grab.