NationStates Jolt Archive

I'd like to do an article for NSWiki on the NS nations where magic works. I'm interested in how your nation itself regards magic (beneficial? immoral?); whether magic-users have to train or be educated, and how this is done; do you RP your magic mainly for battles, or is it integrated into your (nation's) fabric; are there non-magic users in your nation; how do you interact with non-magic nations; and do you have, or feel the need for, an explanation of why magic works in your land?

I'm also interested in anything else about your magic nations that you'd care to share with the world. So ... alla kazam, alla kazite, stir up the cauldrons and write, write, WRITE!

Check my Factbook (link in sig) for what information is available about magic in DLE. It uses the Shadowrun rules with a few dramatic effects thrown in now and then. However, it's not used for battle (mages have a bad tendency to die when casting in space...).

We regard magic as a part of ordinary life. Magic-users do need to train though Fae have an innate predisposition to learn at least some magic. I RP magic mostly for effect or as a plot device. I try to keep battles based on more conventional things and have no large-scale battle magic. Humans do not use magic here. We treat magic as something that works everywhere but isn't used everywhere. We don't use it for a wankish advantage over non-magic nations but as a plot device and part of the story so it's rarely the cause for OOC dispute. Magic works for Fae because Fae are magic beings in themselves.

That's an interesting point -- the difference between beings who are magic and beings who do magic, I mean. The Cats of Ardchoille are magical beings in themselves; the humans can perform magic, but first have to have their talents awakened by a magical being. The only other people in the land are the (approx) 10% of the human population who simply can't be ...ummm ... en-magicked.

gelfland has some magic, it isn't really studied, because there aren't many who are capable of active use.
we have a significant amount of passive magic, like mithral,
in fact, several pokemon evolution stones adorn the executive office, just there are no pokemon, so they are used as art objects.

No Pokemon? Ohh, thank ... the Goddess.

Attaboy, folks, keep them cards and letters comin' in!

It'll take a while to write up a proper response for this; in the mean time, <tag>.

Excellent idea, by the way - I am very glad to see this.

OOC: Does anyone have a nation using the magical system of Anne Bishop's Dark Jewels trilogy?

Akaton contains a fair amount of magic, though it is not particularly common. Despite the fact that many of my characters are magic users, only about 20% of the general population are capable of using magic. Almost all of Akaton's elves (a small percentage of the population) have some degree of innate magical power, though the humans require extensive training to perform even the simplest incantations. This magic takes the form of small-scale things, such as basic conjuring, warding, telepathy, and in some cases, pyromancy and teleportation. I (almost) never use magic that causes widespread destruction, or any other effect not localized to one or two characters. I've found that this works best OOC, as it allows RPing with non-magical nations without it becoming a problem.

As far as studying magic, The Ministry of the Occult, Akaton's third most powerful government department, is devoted entirely to the arts arcane. It employs and trains the magi, the only really powerful magic users in the nation. However, given the fact that the Ministry only contains about a hundred fully trained magi at any given time, large-scale magic tends not to be practical for military use. The Ministry's main purpose is to defend against stuff like demons, foreign magical attacks, and any other supernatural nastiness.

More to come later (if I remember).

The Confederated City States of Mikitivity completely denies any reports of witchcraft or necromancy or other forums of the arcane arts having been every practiced in the CCSM.

[Though I'd advise anybody who has adversions to magics and stuffs to avoid the CCSM ... as local tradition strongly affirms the believe that the country is in fact protected by a Necromancer whom lives somewhere not far from Miervatia City. ---> translation, magic may exist.] ;)

In the Principality of Dragon Cows, the inhabitants are humanoid decendants of dragons and cows. While not being able to weild magic and knowing a bunch of spells, they have abilities that could appear to be magical to outsiders. They have the ability to breathe a cone of fire up to 5 ft. in front of them, and small wings that, while not large enough for sustained flight, allow them to make larger-than;normal jumps, both in height and distance.

Cats Keep has just returned to the 'real world' after being in the Realm of Shadow for some what over 11 thousand years. The populace is comprised of humans, some that once were human, and some that never were ( Shadow...changes things and people ) and those that took Cats Keep from the 'real world' were mages most powerful ( as some were very powerful psionics ). Magick is woven into the very fabric of Cats keep indeed.

There are those that can 'use' magick ( activate an 'enchanted' item, etc ) , and there are those that work with the warp and weft of the flow of energies that are termed 'magick' - altering effects, creating new effects etc - Mages.
( please remember that the old saw about suffeciently high magic and suffeciently high tech being indistinguishable )

Their training can last years, even decades, depending on which method of working with majick is their path. And despite so many centuries of studying not all of the 'laws' of magic are known, and sometimes magick does things that are ...unexpected.

However the gene / inate ability ..what ever - is not that common, and so there are not large numbers of Mages about. Some are indeeed in the military, quite a number are a part of IADA ( Information and Data Aquisition ) Cats Keep's Intellegence Directorate.

Many all natives to Cats Keep can Shadow Travel - if there is shadow, ( that intersection of light and dark ), they can step from one shadow to the next - no matter the distance between them. Though no one is entirely sure if this is magick or psionic or some manifestation of the often odd qualities of Shadow.

There also dwell among them beings that are magickal - most commonly seen are the Flap Cats

Ingladia officially denies any report of magic use within its borders. Those in the know however are aware of how closely magic and the supernatural is tied into the military technology of the country. If any magic tendencies are discovered in a person they are whisked away into government vehicles never to seen again. Those who posses the talent are discovered via the "Black Corsairs," A fleet of planes that detect physic presences in people below.
Their talents are used to enhance the military technolgy, via top secret projects. One such example is the MagiTech project, where those with magic are more or less enslaved and forced to use their power to pilot mechanized weapons platforms in battle. Those that have a will strong enough to resist the enslavement are often found as generals leading the armies, occasionally lending their talents.

In the Orion Sector, "magic" is not called such. My "fantasy" is merely expanded and evolved science-fiction. Certain (and by that I mean a handful) people have certain abilities, such as flight, manipulation of gravimetric fields, increased speed, increased strength, a "foresight" ability, or the ability to manipulate the elements. These are not considered Magic, but instead the results of unlocking or manipulating DNA by either the Q-virus or Aural blood.

If you need anything more indepth I'll be happy to give it. I'm just rather tired right now...so I'm trying to be as general as possible.

Some time between now and later I'll writinate a real description for thaumaturgy in Weyr. Until then...Q&A format based on your initial post.

I'm interested in how your nation itself regards magic (beneficial? immoral?);
Depends on the place and time. Historically, Weyr has viewed thauaturgy the same way the western world has viewed technology IRL, which means...that it depends on the time and place. Generally, minor thaumaturgies are something that is regarded as common place. Just as few people stop on the street and think if the silicon circuit is evil, so do very few Weyreans actually stop and think if the Firien cell powering their cars is evil.

The official government stance is that it is neither good nor evil, although it can be used for either of those purposes. Since good and evil are highly relativistic in traditional Weyrik society, claiming magic to be either of those would be difficult, at best.

Whether magic-users have to train or be educated, and how this is done;
Anyone can use minor thaumaturgy by memorizing a few rhythms to manipulate the underlying leyNet spaning the various planes of existence. Real manipulation of matter and such requires years of study and at least some talent.

True thaumaturgic education starts in the junior or senior year of high school and continues throughout university and beyond, if applicable. Thaumaturgic studies are usually a part of any university's curriculum. Some universities are free, others are not.

The first year is spent on theory, focus, and shield construction. A thaumaturge has to know not to use herself as a focal point for energy; that any magic used will be accompanied by exactly the same amount of backlash, which has to be absorbed by a shield; and that not all places allow for the same draw. Theoretical classes tend to resemble lectures, with hundreds of students sitting in at any given time. Hands-on classes of twelve sudents or less are used for advanced studies.

do you RP your magic mainly for battles, or is it integrated into your (nation's) fabric;

Thaumaturgy is an integral part of Weyrean society, and works behind the scenes to get things done. It doesn't come up very often in regular conversation, just like the workings of a light switch do not come up in regular conversation. The average person knows he needs to change the Firien cells in his car every few days and let the old ones charge up at a filling station.

Industrial thaumaturgy is handled via machines which range from cheap infusion devices that recharge Firien cells to ruinously expensive patterning machines that can do anything from removing impurities in a sword to transforming lithium into lead (assuming you put enough energy into the machine to balance the change in mass).

Thaumaturgy is rarely used on the battlefield. Only a few thauamturges in Weyrean history have been powerful enough to make a true difference in combat. That aside, even the best laboratory thaumaturge can crack up in the trenches, or get blow to bits my a hand grenade. When thaumatuges are fielded, they are fielded behind the front lines and work in groups to help the soldiers themselves. Stone rain is not an option. Most platoons do contain one or two minor thaumaturges who might help in minor ways, but who generally will not be shooting fireballs during a firefight.

are there non-magic users in your nation;
Depends on if 'magic user' includes people who just memorize a few lines and took a single course on thaumaturgy in school just for the hell of it.

how do you interact with non-magic nations;
The same as with any other state.

do you have, or feel the need for, an explanation of why magic works in your land?
Weyrean thaumaturgy works everywhere, although few places are equipped to handle the machinery needed to implement it.

*struggles vainly* OMG -- will someone please help me get this mxpltzf genie back in this mxpltzf bottle?

I didn't know what I'd unleashed! I'm learning a lot here -- I'd always thought Weyr was a nation that RPd Anne McCaffrey's Dragonriders ... sorry.

So far, it seems ....

some of us were always magic, some of us became magic, some of us flaunt it and some of us haven't admitted it yet;

most people have a fairly detailed mental pic of how magic fits in and out of the threads of their society;

few use magic for battles, and those who do treat it largely as just another technology (so far, touch wood, no deluge of L33T spkrs who dump the enemy's entire army into the nearest volcano BECAUSE WE CAN, SO MWAHAHAHA!);

several mention how they accommodate their magic to RP with non-magic nations (well, what'd I expect, on an RP forum, eh?). Are we developing a special NS Law of Magic? This one intrigues me because I like to make my nation's magic something of a stumbling-block in dealings with the non-magical -- not as something that stops me RPing, but as something that adds another complication to work with; and

collectively, magic nations can't resist a joke (Flap Cats, indeed!).

The way things are going, it looks like I'll try to do just an introductory page as a summary of NS magic and then largely cut-and-paste your posts into subsequent pages. There's too much good stuff coming in to let it float off into the ether of inactive threads.

Which doesn't mean you have to post lots of detail if you don't want to. The questions were just to give you an idea of things you might touch on. If you're the Nation of Magical Lampshades because you have magical lampshades in your nation and that's all there is to it, fine; just help us get it on record.

Just to keep it in the one thread, here's what the Demon Lord Enigma has to say about his people's magic:

"Magic- When it comes to magic, all they have done is integrate it into their daily lives and begun to investigate it. It is expected they will take decades to fully understand magic, but as a people they are patient. In the meantime, what comforts magic provides are exploited just as technology is."

(BTW, his Factbook is really worth a read.)

Who's operating a nation within an existing system of magic? I know Darkover follows MZB's, and Lord Vetinari's Ankh-Morpork is based on Terry Pratchett's -- anyone else? Have we any from the Cthulu mythos? There's more than a few that look a bit Tolkien, but unless they've got hobbits and such they're hard to classify, since he used so much folklore. Any Narnians? So much F is also SF that I'm inclined to accept that "magic" is whatever people say it is ... any purists wanna discuss that?

I have used magic for a long time. Part of my background story even mentions how I came to Earth via Magic. Here is part of it pasted from my website:

About 1000 years ago the Ta'Nar experienced a genesis and undergone a racial transformation. They achieved the ability to leave behind their bodies and lead a non-corporeal existence. They still controlled their machines by possession and continued being the Overlords but the drive to expand was temporally diminished. The colonies were recalled so the Ta'Nar could explore their new incarnation as a whole.

One of the colony transport vessels containing millions of colonist experienced mechanical failure during the voyage back to the cluster. The ship crashed upon a small out of the way planet. To the Ta'Nar's horror, the world was discovered to not only be magic rich but it completely repressed all technology. This meant there was no way for them to return to Tal'neer.

The Leader of the Ta'Nar, Nhur-Galladu, formulated a plan. The Ta'Nar would possess various beings of this world and attempt to get them to use their magic to transport them to another world where Technology would function. After several hundred years they were able to finally achieve this goal. They gathered all the Ta'Nar onto one group of islands and used the Magi to open a rift to another world, which happened to be Terra.

When the archipelago was transferred, the magic came with it so for a while technology would not function within the newly transferred region until Ta'Nar occupied scientist were able to combine the magic and technologies into a hybrid. As the years passed, the eldritch field faded since it could no longer be sustained from the source. During the last few remaining years magic functioned, the Technomages levitated sections of one of the islands into orbit. The new land became Babylon 1.

I am currently participating in a couple Threads and a project that will interest any magic using nations. Keep an eye on the White Tower thread and those associated with it for some details that might be released soon...

White Tower Thread (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=378306)

I hope to see you there

I have two Nations both use Magic. Although the source of the Magic is very different as are it's effects and power.

Giltheran

Moral Views on Magic.

Magic is and of itself neither good nor bad it is a weave that answers to the direction spun by the caster. Clerical Magic from worshippers of good god's (My entire clergy except for a few who are less moral) Is generally of a Moral nature as the caster is merely acting as a conduit for a being greator than himself, and which said being cannot act against it's nature.

Mage Magic is more of a Grey area, since the direction of the spell comes from the caster the moral character of the spell is therefore dependent on the intention of the caster, in short Magic is a tool.

Spread of Magic.

Magic permanetes in one form or another most areas of Giltheran life, it is even used in the fermenting of a highly intoxicating drink, from moon light. Those who cannot themselves cast magic still have access to items that are magical in nature, many used in simple household tasks such as making a fire. Yes it extends to our warmaking as well. (But then we only have swords and bows)

There are in Mage craft two types of Magic High and Normal. High Magic is responsible for such creations as the Guardian an immense goleum construct that protects the harbour of our Capital city. ((When immense I mean immense.)) however it is only castable at this time within Giltheran itself. Normal Magic on the other hand is wide spread. ((Unless explicitly asked not to I assume it to be everywhere))

Training.

Again it depends, Mages undergo years of apprenticship before becoming journeymen and seeking their own way of expanding their knowledge. Clerics learn it all in the Temples. High Magi are selected. (Selection process includes the requirement of creating an original spell) Combat Mages and specialist have very intense training regimes.

In short in Giltheran Magic is the norm:)

I'm interested in how your nation itself regards magic (beneficial? immoral?);
My nation is actually 3 nations in one, a fantasy tech, a modern tech and a future tech. my fantasy tech likes magic.

whether magic-users have to train or be educated, and how this is done;
If a person has the ability to use magic then they get trained. They do it sort of like universitys do start off big class and as progress smaller classes.

do you RP your magic mainly for battles, or is it integrated into your (nation's) fabric;
In my fantasy tech nation its used as needed for whatever purpose.

are there non-magic users in your nation;
Yes those not born with the ability

how do you interact with non-magic nations;
Same as everyone else

and do you have, or feel the need for, an explanation of why magic works in
your land? If I get challenged on how it works I can explain otherwise why bother

Having had a request to post here, I can reveal that my magick is not based upon any author or game. It is in fact a style that I came up with independently, but it functions in a similar way to pyromancy, at least in appearance. My nation, which is mostly future tech, has a very limited fantasy tech side, but I may be expanding upon it at a later date, with references to physkers from 40K

There is only one magick user within my nation, and he wields an ablity known as The Black Flame. This ablity mainfests as, fairly obviously, a black flame that surrounds him whilst in use. It has a wide range of ablities, including healing and attacking, but is always used in moderation to prevent god-mod's. I orginally began as the character being an expierenced solider, but a highly novice mage. Given assitance by Kaymirilian mages, he has grown in power, including an expansion of his ablitites known as Fieros, which manifests as a white flame. The Black Flame is rare in the extreme, only maifesting every 500 years or so (For further reference, see: White Tower, Kaelis Ra returns, sorry no links)

Maybe up to seven percent of the Kaymirilian population actually studies magick. The rest learn basic spells...how to heal a minor injury, how to light/put out a fire...stuff like that.

The main classes of magick studied in Kaymiril are:

Gray: Healing magicks. About 25% of the mage population studies this magick. They are extremely advanced healers, and individual groups larger than ten anywhere other than Mithdelmar can only be found in the largest cities or at the scenes of epidemics/natural disasters.

Red: Pyromancy.

Blue: Hydromancy.

Brown: Geomancy.

White: Aeromancy.

Silver: Space magicks

Gold: Time magicks.

Note: Silver and Gold can almost be considered one school. On a mission requiring one or the other, both can always be found.

Necromancy is punishable by death.

Kaymiril is not a military nation, although the region is highly prepared to defend itself should the need arise. She will not initiate combat. Magick is only pulled out in combat when the opposing party pulls out something rediculous (most recent example: a nation half my size saying its navy was twice the size of mine. We had a pair of our high-level White Class students send out a fairly high-level hurricane).

Wonderful, and keep it comin'!

Thanks to all posters so far; ain't this a fascinating selection of individuals (I don't think I can use the word [i]group[/], there's so much variety).

Please pass the word abt this thread to other magic-using nations you know. I'd like this to be as comprehensive as possible.

Interesting how people are focussing on simple tasks, such as lighting fires, to explain magic use within their nations.

In Ardchoille, the human magic-users use whatever's simplest, magic or matchbox. The Cats, however, are so in love with the new-to-them Human Magic -- ie, technology, hard science -- that they never use magic when there's a physical way of accomplishing something. The (approx) 10% of humans who can't do magic tend to become very hard-line scientists; one, who's married to one of my Ambassadors, has even managed to convince himself that he doesn't believe in magic.

I'm interested in how your nation itself regards magic (beneficial? immoral?);
My nation is actually 3 nations in one, a fantasy tech, a modern tech and a future tech. my fantasy tech likes magic.

whether magic-users have to train or be educated, and how this is done;
If a person has the ability to use magic then they get trained. They do it sort of like universitys do start off big class and as progress smaller classes.

do you RP your magic mainly for battles, or is it integrated into your (nation's) fabric;
In my fantasy tech nation its used as needed for whatever purpose.

are there non-magic users in your nation;
Yes those not born with the ability

how do you interact with non-magic nations;
Same as everyone else

and do you have, or feel the need for, an explanation of why magic works in
your land? If I get challenged on how it works I can explain otherwise why bother
This was a mispost it was suppose to be posted by Theao

Ardchoille...you're pushing this thing like an auctioneer. Magick should flow, not be forced...same with a thread featuring magick. The White Tower has done so, but the way this is set up, it's going to fizz out and die after maybe three pages.

Magick should flow, not be forced...same with a thread featuring magick.

True enough ... I just didn't want a series of posts saying "Bump!". And I guess I got carried away with enthusiasm. I'll try to tone it down ... *takes freezing cold shower* ... :cool:

*takes freezing cold shower* ... :cool:

That'll definately shrink your...enthusiasm...

Yeah, but wait till I get to the "briskly towel dry" part. Or should that be, "wrapping self in scented embrace of velvety-soft robe" bit?

Oh, dear. *cleans up act*.

So-o-o, getting back to the subject under discussion ...

No, I meant magic! Some people!

My entire nation is magical. Each and every citizen has quasi-Magical powers. Of course, each and every citizen also happens to be a breed of sliver from Magic the gathering. Alone, each one is pretty weak, except for maybe two or three breeds, and the Queen is always a tough opponet no matter what. I also have an IC religion, complete with an IC Goddess I rp with. I know some people would scream Godmod but even Gods have rules they must follow. Now, even though I have Fantasy tech, I am also future tech. I am currently working on a way to blend Fantasy and Magic. Keep an Eye on the white tower, something new is on its way...

In the realm of the C’tan, what would actually be called magic (as opposed to the seemingly endless amounts of clarketech) is rarely employed, but somewhat understood.

The magic employed by the nation is generally with relation to items, which I will, for the purpose of clarity, call ‘Art.’ This is by far the easiest form of magic to use, which is saying very little, and requires extreme labour to be spent on the manufacture of an item. There are no limits with regard to material or complexity of the item to be created, barring that the item must be able to withstand certain stresses not unlike magnetic forces, making paper with Art is possible, but making such paper withstand something highly powerful, such as being used as a scrying tool is difficult to the point of near-impossibility. In comparison, an obsidian slab is a much better subject. Making text appear on paper with a given trigger is also possible, and is equally possible, not easier, with stone. Similarly, ‘enchanting’ a computer to perform a function is extremely difficult, because of the need to comprehend its function fully at all levels of operation. Needless to say, anyone prepared to put in the time and effort is capable of learning this. Such objects appear fairly commonly in everyday life, ranging from hairpins that reduce the weight of extremely long hair, to jewellery that sparkles with otherwise inexplicable light to pens that make one’s handwriting neater.

Other forms of magic, which, for convenience, I shall call sorcery, are innate, and rarely used. This is found to some degree in almost everyone. The greatest ability tends to be among the Quendi population, around 25%, followed by the ‘Human’ population, whose abilities tend to manifest to a very limited degree, but almost universally, since a national program of genetic modification. Lastly, the necrontyr, whose abilities are minimal at best, and usually completely negligible. This is somewhat compensated for by a greater aptitude for Art than humans, but is mostly balanced by phenomenal technological adeptitude.

‘Sorcery’ does allow for such things as lightning bolts and the ability to shatter steel a word, but the former is only present in one known individual, and the latter completely unrecorded in modern times. Far more common applications are as low level healing, or instantaneous translation. A large portion of the ‘human’ population is capable of the former, as well as almost all elves.

Morally, the general creed is that with all forms of power comes responsibility. In general, magic is considered to be a tool, nothing more, though some forms of sorcery, such as the more extreme degrees of dominating another’s will are considered, much like drugs that do the same, to be tools that have very few acceptable uses.

Nope. Never used in battle, the only thing that really is used in battle are… abominations… capable of projecting an anti-magic sphere around themselves, and occasionally, materials capable of doing the same to a much lesser extent for handling prisoners and preventing assassination.

It just works.

What's everyone's view on god-moding? Do NS magic-using nations have to be particularly sensitive to the need to avoid it? Any more sensitive than, say, a very high-tech nation?

Myself, I try to stick to the Prime Directive. On the other hand, I've spent years watching successive captains of the Enterprise get around that one, and it's fun ...

(Forgive the long post, but this is an interesting topic to me)
The citizens of the Empire don't practice, "magic" per se, but many similarities can be found. Having grown in a society where this is all common knowledge I may have trouble explaining magic, at least ours, but I shall try my best.

Magic is not like the stories that most of us hear. It is very hard, and yet extremely simple. We have found through our studies of mysticism and general thaumatugy from other cultures that magic has many different degrees. onsider it like a scale, on one side you have wild magics. Wild magics can be anything from nature, to a child who imagines a grand story while playing and notices things are happening in real life. Such as he pretends that a wind is stirred up as he gathers power for some fight and then a strong wind suddenly begins to blow. On the other end we have ritualistic, even sometimes scientific magics. Mostly extremely rigid and perfectionist, where magic is done through sets of mathematical equations or in order to achieve something, it must be done a certain way. In the middle there are the faith magics. Miracles and such things are achieved through this. It is a mixture of the two because it is a form of wild magic creating a deity. This deity uses the magic inherant in its being to protect and guide its followers. In order to channel their god, which they feed through their belief and must wield the power of sed belief to channel magic. It is rarely used but can be extremely powerful as millions of people essentially focus on one act.

The people of Dahyj use many of these types but all people, of every race have the capacity to use the wild magics, so we encourage them. Wild magics are almost like dreams. That reality is just a grand dream and we are collectively dreaming in it. Our imagination is the power that we can exert over the dream. Due to the fact that there are more than just you dreaming at any given time, in order to exert your will upon the world you must claim it with your essence. Like sending your energy you might say into it, then shaping it via your imagination. It is harder to do as you age in many cultures do to onsets of cynicism and doubt. It isn't something you control, but it can be much more powerful than rigid magics. The bigger the influence you seek to exert, the more taxing it will be on you. Much like in a dream if you want to suddenly have an ice cream cone, it is easier than changing the entire landscape, or even switching dreams, the more you exert the more you wake up. In reality the more you awaken, the less connected to the flow of life you become.

We don't have much knowledge in general thaumaturgy but our studies have revealed at least some about it in relation to our magic. It seems that the participants seek to impose their will upon the world, to make evenything ordered. Wild magic is chaos of life whereas formal magic is order of binding. They use methods to reduce the universe to a controlable state and use their knowledge of the universe to command it. We have seen this to be far more reliable, but much less potent. However this is not a trend in the Empire therefore our studies are limited.

As for battles, we don't use it much. Occasionally it will be used subconsciously, and many immigrants use general magic in battle, but they seem to mostly not last long with extended magic use. Mostly the major use of magic is in everyday life. Luck is influenced often, avoiding spider webs, gaining knowledge for tests, trivial things such as those. We have many of the more powerful citizens who do more, such as work with spirits, (a result of imprinting of magic upon the world around us, a half way between wild and divine. Caused not directly by humanity, but due to the presence of life and its inherant magical nature) Dahyj is well known for it's perfect weather and wonderful farming land. As for dealing with other nations, all are magical, we use it in everyday life without realizing it. If you live you are magical. So it doesn't affect anything. Thank you for your time,
~Kunopsiaxhirax, Emperor of Dahyj

Mikitivity denies/implies magic and Ingladia denies/admits magic. Others accept magic as basic; see it as commonplace; regard it highly. Do we have anywhere that finds magic an embarrassment? Or sees it as a little old-fashioned (like insisting on keeping a horse after the automobile became widespread)?

The Queendom of Eleigh regards magic and the use therof as inherently eveil and from the devil. Any suspicion that a member of our citizenry is using magic will result in immediate impressonment. While in prison, suposed users will be salted and cleansed. All demons will be cast out by the Spiritual Advisor to the People.

The Queendom of Eleigh refuses to have relations with any state that supports the use of magic. We pray for them regularly.

In Christ,
Sincerely,

Ministry of External Affairs,
Queendom of Eleigh

Wow! *Respectful whistle*

Thanks very much, Eleigh. So, while you're IC, you acknowledge magic exists but you reject and abhor it? Or do you regard it as a delusion some foolish people deliberately embrace, and still r and a it?

This could make an interesting RP. If Eleigh played the role of an equivalent of Phillip I's Spain, with magic-using nations being the equivalents of Elizabethan England, the Netherlands, Germany, Scotland, etc -- the heresy being not Protestantism, but magic ... court intrigues, quarrelsome allies, lovers divided by family allegiance, Christopher Marlowe-like spies .. you'd carry the heaviest burden, though, Eleigh. Worth considering?

OOC query: supposed users salted? Any connection with "salt in the devil's eye" when you toss it over your shoulder? Or "ploughing fields with salt" to deny defeated enemy his land? Or salt = life parallel, as in several mythologies? Or salt = preservative?

Or was it a typo, and I'm getting excited over nothing again *not more cold showers ...*

After much debate, and a National Referendum on the subject, the government of Avastania has prepared this statement.

The magical capabilities of our citizens are are fully in keeping with the Natural Order, and in no way violate the laws of nature, and in no way brings harm to other Nations.

Our arcane physics professors agreed by a vote of 201 to 194 that a special gene is responsible for the seemingly mystical abilities which some people are capable of wielding. This lends further credence to an aforemeantioned statement from the Headmistress of the Starfinder University of All Things Arcane, that "magic" and other "paranormal abilities" are simply another form of science. This statement was previously backed up by an additional periodic table submitted three years ago by the same source.

By Our Hand,
The High Council of Avastania

I think your scientists and mine may be on the verge of a breakthrough.

Using MRI, Ardchoille scientists have been able to pinpoint the areas of the brain that "light up" when magic is performed. They have discovered that two separate areas are involved. Though either area may function during other activities, such as meditation or creativity, the only time both are active is during magic.

However, this occurs only as the brain matures and only if the brain has been (a) in the presence of a magical creature or (b) deliberately "awoken" by a human practitioner of magic.

In 10% of the human population, though both areas of the brain are present and functional, they cannot be made to operate together, even under artificial stimulation. Such humans remain "magic-blind" throughout their lifetime, though functioning capably, even brilliantly, in other respects.

Our historians suggest that magic died out in most parts of the world around 1600. Human use of iron, to which most inherently magical creatures were allergic, removed the opportunity for the gentle growth into magic which had been possible when the different species intermingled. Human practitioners of the Craft continued to induct others, but religious opposition and, in the case of witches, direct persecution, caused the gradual loss of the entire corpus of magical knowledge. The half-trained taught the quarter-trained, and so on, until only the secret of how to "awaken" others remained; a poor, crippled talent that came to be hedged about with so much meaningless mumbo-jumbo it is amazing any vestige of magic survived.

It was then that an academic quarrel in the University of Findhorn led to the exodus of the entire Faculty of Magic, its students and various hangers-on. Findhorn, so far distant from the great intellectual movements of the time, had never abandoned Celtic beliefs and so was not caught up in the "dumbing-down" or the witch-hunts. But money was scarce and the University Senate refused to fund further research into magical science, which had become inconsistent and was having difficulty duplicating results that had once been easily obtainable. Outraged, the magic-users sought a place to continue their researches.

They found Ardchoille -- and, by an astonishing stroke of good fortune, the Cats, who were magical creatures totally impervious to the ill-effects of iron. Suddenly magic was what it had always promised to be: a testable, repeatable, consistent and logical field of study.

For the Cats, too, it was a time of magic: the Human Magic of physical science. They had always been able to shape the world with their minds. Now humans came with tools that would do precisely the same job, without the expenditure of any magical energy! The Cats absorbed 17th-century "science" in one intellectual gulp, and soon made discoveries that parallelled those in the wider world ...

This is not the place to go into the Einsteinian careers of many Cat physicists, engineers, etc. The point is this: Avastania's discovery that magical ability depends on the existence of a specific gene may explain the problem that has baffled Ardchoille: why, though physically, to all appearances, the same as magic-users, are some humans magic-blind? The vital gene may be the answer: in such cases, it may be missing or damaged.

Your discovery has caused such intellectual ferment in Ardchoille that we have temporarily suspended all but the most basic programs to concentrate on this project.

(OOC: While I wouldn't ever discuss Ermor's magic in any IC capacity, since Ermor is the Ashen Empire, the land of the undead, I'll say something about it in an OOC fashion. I base it all on a game called Dominions, and more specifically, on Dominions 2. Even the whole Ashen Empire is from that game, as well as the Soul Gates I sometimes refer to are. I've had to tone it down a bit at places: For instance, Utterdark (a "global enchantment" from the game) is active, but it only affects Ermor's dominion. That being the area that has been desecrated by its unholy priests. That means that I have changed the very idea of the dominion a little - it changes only through the priests of Ermor, not through the spread of "faith".

Only the priests of Marignon, Pythium, Ulm and C'tis know how to fight this desecration, as they lived through the Fall. They migrated to different NS nations (the lizardmen of C'tis went to Sakkra, Pythians and Ulmians went mostly to Menelmacar and whatnot), with the Marignonians being the sole exception. They were all thought dead, but they have their own country somewhere out there - it's called -Marignon-.

As such, Ermor is completely magical, as its very inhabitants are based on death magic and unholy energies of the Underworld. This means that Ermor's main focus is on death magic (or necromancy, as some call it). Many Ermorian Dusk Elders are adept in several magical paths, some have specialized in certain paths, some generalized.

The paths are as follows: The elements (fire, earth, air, water), astral, nature, death and blood. They all contain attack, defensive and summon spells, with some being more powerful in other areas than others, and they are quite straightforward. Astral also contains the powers of the mind, and is one of the paths quite a few Dusk Elders specialize in, due to its versality and power. Or what do Abominations, Mind hunt or Arcane Domination sound like? Or Enslave Mind?

Ermor is able to use most of them to some degree, with the exceptions of nature and blood magic. Using nature magic in Ermor would require something else but barren, dead wasteland, and blood magic would require teenage virgins with certain magical qualities, which, Ermor as an undead nation, does not have.

Ermor can bring about more undead in two different ways: Through magic, and through unholy rites. Its very presence in an area raises the dead from their graves, or from any other such resting place. The unholy rites only require time, while magic means also require a precious resource, only known as "death gems". The more complicated and/or arduous the spell, the more you need of them. Battle spells require only a few of them, but might still end up "eating up" more of them than you intended, leaving you less fatigued by the casting than it would have. Undead don't have problems with fatigue, so they end up only using more gems for no reason at all.

So, the gems. There are gems for all paths. Different elemental gems (fire, earth and so on), nature gems, death gems and astral gems, while blood requires those virgins, who are called "blood slaves". For instance, to become a vampire (lord), you would need to make a rite in which you sacrifice fifty blood slaves, no more, no less. Even one too many or not enough would make the rite unsuccessful. To summon a creature, you would need a specific amount of gems, or it won't work. Too many, and the creature dies from the excess power. Too few, and you do not have enough energy to bring about the creature from its plane.

You can make yourself more potent in a specific path of magic by applying the power of a certain amount of gems into your own person. Even someone who has never used magic could become a potent mage this way - you would just have to use a lot of time, gems and effort to do it.

The gems themselves are harvested from very specific locations, locations you have to know what you're looking for. Death gems manifest themselves on battlefields, graveyards, places of unnatural death and such. Fire gems manifest around volcanoes and such. Earth gems come from some earthly locations. Nature gems come from locations of unnatural beauty and such. Air gems have a tendency of showing up in places with unnatural winds and the like. You get the picture.

As for Ermor itself, its main focus is still on magic, even though it has been able to get quite high technology through some unexpected but highly welcomed coincidences. Its Wights, which were originally armed with bane blades, blackened, ancient suits of armor and black shields, now field rather large machine guns and light power armor. The machine guns are filled with unholy runes that cause the bullets to burn with unholy bane fire, which is a physical manifestation of the hate the dead have towards the living. Ermor's space ships work with this fire of hate as well.

***

Gaah. I didn't even check the text... Well... It'll have to do. I'll remove this if this wasn't what you were actually looking for. And since this is OOC, using it in IC in any way is STRICTLY prohibited. As such, you can't just claim knowing things about Ermor's magic you couldn't have known before, ya hear!)

Thanks, Ermor. What I'm looking for is whatever a magic-using nation chooses to say about itself. The questions at the start were (sort of) pump-primers, though they're things I'm specifically interested in. I just want enough variety to be able to do a broad over-view.

I'm still hoping more nations based on specific games or books will post. I know of one Warhammer nation. What else is out there?

Well, My slivers are from Magic: The Gathering. I had to modify their abilites slightly somewhat to fit NS, and others I made up. Each breed is born with their powers, and using it is second nature, like breathing.

The Drow I use are very loosely based off of DnD and the Forgotten Realms Drow. They acknowledge their history, but have gone very far away from the original teachings/behavoirs. You still don't want to tick them off, but they're less likely to kill for no reason.

Eleigh, I've been thinking ... you were IC, weren't you? I didn't start this thread to bait any religion, so if my suggestions about a "heresy" RP sounded like provocation to anyone, please accept my apologies.

On the other hand, if anything in this does provoke anyone, please don't flame, just stop reading. I'm after info, not arguments.

And thanks, Kaymiril, Warhaven. Looking forward to seeing where the White Tower goes next. Did you ever reply to that guy who was wondering about the Robert Jordan background? Actually, when you do dragons I keep catching echoes of someone else, but I can't pin it down -- Robin Hobbs's world, esp Golden Fool series, maybe? Not Anne McCaffrey, lol.

Shrin Kali makes no official notice of magic. Nor do any of the major corporations. Lastly, there is no such thing as a recognized or official religion.

However, the Rakkon (a species of which a small number have found their way to Shrin Kali) have a tiny number of shamans in their ranks. Very few non-Rakkons are capable of wielding the exact magics without going insane. Those who manage it still must maintain very certain demeanors or the spells will fail. Exactly what is required depends on the spell, where it is cast, and the situation around - needless to say, learning to be a Rakkon shaman is a lifelong task and even the best has his magic fail occasionally.

There are two subsects of Rakkon magic.

The first kind involves the shaman acting as direct conduit for land or water energies above or around them. This kind is generally not powerful, but it is invigorating for the shaman and takes much concentration but no energy of their own. Almost any can learn this side. Many who believe in the Rakkon' shamanistic beliefs know a few small spells of cleansing. The exact power depends on the Rakkon in question, but most serve only in the capacity as healer. Using either in an offensive manner is difficult but not impossible (with extensive training). The Rakkon are too peaceful to use it like this. Other races they have come into contact with are not so scrupulous, although they have a hard time finding teachers. Water magic is preferred by far by Rakkon casters. They have a species-wide affinity. A Rakkon shaman on an island might be able to invoke healing miracles across the entire island. That same shaman in a landlocked area with no water in sight would only be able to cure a neighborhood of the flu. Again, non-Rakkon aren't bound by this caveat.

The second kind is what a Rakkon will do when, for some reason, the land around them is deadened or they do not have the skill to acheive the effect they desire. This is the kind that tends to drive non-Rakkon insane. It involves invoking and dealing with often contrary spirits who must be persuaded to help. The consequences are rarely pleasant, as whatever the shaman promises to the spirit will be torn away immediately. The Rakkon are shielded to a certain extent from getting evil spirits by their natural demeanor - the usually innocent Rakkon are anathema to the undead and unnatural, and their shaman have abilities generally only found in priests. The more world-weary a Rakkon is, the less the aforementioned protects them. Old shaman are protected by sheer strength of will, which they have had years to develop. Non-Rakkon usually won't have this kind of protection to begin with unless they started calling spirits when they were a child. An unhappy spirit can and will tweak the exact words of a contract or consequence - and it's never pretty.

Young Rakkon shaman cannot cast in battle at all. Older ones can cast healing or defensive spells. Only non-Rakkon who learn to be shaman can cast offensive battle magic, and it drains them greatly. Any non-healing spell cast in battle runs a great risk of drawing the wrong kind of spiritual attention (namely because a battle is, by definition, a big boiling pot of negative emotions).

Magic is a LONG ways from commonplace, because even though the beliefs in the magics is common, shaman rarely take more than three apprentices in their lifetimes, and almost never will take an apprentice outside their species. There are, however, a handful of half-taught Rakkon healers in every Shrin Kali militia unit. These Rakkon are failed shaman apprentices; most Rakkon don't have the attention span to pursue magic. Even if they don't help much in battle, it helps morale greatly to know that no one will die off-field and that if they survive the battle they've a better chance than most of surviving the battle's wounds.

Since Rakkon shamanic magic is almost never aggressive, and the shaman have to be self-sacrificing by nature to be successful, the magic is generally looked upon as extremely good in nature by all but a few religious extremists. The shaman are venerated by those who follow their shamanic religion. However, the leaders of some of the various other religions are often at odds with the Rakkon shamans. This resentment follows from obvious reasons. Although all religions promise miracles, only a couple deliver, of which this is one. It's anathema to any religion that can't provide similar results. This has stemmed obvious accusations, but they are one-sided. There has been attempt to defend from them. This one-sided war has swayed many potential converts from the simple beliefs of the Rakkon, but so far has been completely unsuccessful in convincing any of the Rakkon themselves.

For reasons that are presently unknown, only a Rakkon can teach another to use their brand of magic. Although a Rakkon can take a human apprentice, that human apprentice is severely hobbled in what he or she can pass on. Also, the Rakkon cannot use anything resembling death magic. They cannot directly take or drain the life from another, nor can they reanimate the dead. There are legends of extremely powerful shaman that were capable of full resurrections, but they are just that - legends.

Hey, your magic really fits together, Shrin Kali -- I mean, it's got an impressive internal logic. Have you been working on it/RPing it long? Or is it based on an existing game, book or show? And what do the Rakkon look like?

Speaking of books, would anyone be interested in a Magic Reference Library? I'm thinking of a bibliography, basically: just the names of books in the genre that you have enjoyed. Where possible, standard publishing references would help people seek them out more easily, but I know what it's like hunting those up if you can't find the book. Maybe a one- or two-sentence review. This could make a page in the NSWiki, too.

Please note, I don't want to make a rod for my own back, so I wouldn't be doing any upkeep on it. I'm imagining something where people are self-disciplined about what they post. So you might be insanely enthusiastic about a particular fantasy series, but you wouldn't post it if the characters didn't use magic or magic didn't work in that world.

Cut from our Factbook in the Brief History of Everything Thread:

Magic:
Magic in Muktar is controlled by one's emotions and is a physical exhertion that hardly drains you but is a great effort initially. Maintaining a spell requires sustained effort on the part of the caster. There is at least a few spellcasters in every clan, and at least one priest in every council. Magic items are usually simple totems used to ease the efforts of casting. Superstitions generally don't make themselves an issue, and magic is not restricted since it is never abused.

Added on for further detail and with the extra space:

Shamans in Muktar are selected for studenthood between the ages of 2 and 5, mainly to avoid making any bonds to community that would cause emotional damage. Training begins with a routine of hunting, meditation, and physical excercise, all of which help refine the potent's ability to tune into his or her emotions. Learning actual spells doesn't occur until age 10, and these include healing spells, motes of light, minor animal summons, and basic wards. It isn't until the student reachs puberty that more advanced spells are learned, and not until they are 17 (half-orc adult age) before they learn direct attack magics. These is to avoid overwhelming the student and ensuring they are mature enough to use magic responsibly, respectively.

Once a shaman strikes it out on their own, they take up a nomadic lifestyle within their tribal province. If they happen across a village, they stop in to see if there is any way they can help, such as summoning food or curing disease. Should they find a location that is under attack, they usually summon a fast animal, such as a large bird of prey or a dire wolf, to provide early support until the shaman can arrive in person. It is at that point the shaman unleashes his fury on the invaders, sending earth and stone and furious beast against them. Should such a battle be sustained, the surviving half-orcs may need to nurse the exhausted shaman back to health.

Some shamans, however, are selected to have a council seat to represent their tribe on a national level, if they are well known enough in their lands. In this case, the shamans of the province are far more organized, because they can always contact each other with a "wild empathy" gained from their animal magic. This allows them to know where in their territory they are needed. As such, each tribe has at least one shaman on their respective councils.

Firstoff, I'd like to plug here:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=396063&page=1
As a good resource for species.

I'll give the abridged description of a Rakkon here.
They're basically very large otters. They're short, muscular, and have oversized, thick tails. They like to tatoo themselves, are quite uninhibited, love fish, and don't understand government or economy on larger leveld than tribal ones. They're impulsive and impatient.
They come from a planet that was accidentally uplifted after an attempted takeover by a leisure company. Before that, there had been no civilization on the planet, as the environment was extremely unstable and generally destroyed any attempts at permanent buildings. Because of this weather, they spent a large amount of their time attempting to placate weather gods. Fish was plentiful enough that they didn't have to really work to get food. Apparently, one of the primitive actually managed to find an actual (and helpful) spirit, and thus was born their religion and magic.

The species had no experience in war before the battles with the leisure company. They're quite intelligent and very clever, but their curiosity is so overpowering that they have little common sense.

The design of the magic is entirely my own creation.
One thing to note: Theoretically, a shaman would never have to summon any spirits. However, even the few of them patient enough to learn magic generally aren't patient enough to spend years upon years learning to manipulate the earth/water energies in exactly the ways to create the effects they want. Instead, they summon spirits to do the particulars, and only channel the energy side of it. The ones that survive a few summonings start picking up tricks from the spirits. Sometimes, they'll call spirits for training, which in most cases doesn't require payment.

Thanks for that thread. (For those too lazy to click -- I know, I know, it's late and the dial-up is slow -- it's an ambitious attempt to catalogue the non-human species in NationStates. An attempt which should be encouraged, hint, hint.)

Your reference to species being uplifted echoes the universe of ... oh, damn, I was going to make an intelligent and penetrating comment and I've forgotten the name. Real classic of SF. Anyway, it's got the Puppeteers; and humans have dolphins and ... dogs? ... as client species. I can see the cover of the first book in my mind's eye ... bah!

Whatever. That's got nothing to do with the lovely way your magic scheme holds together. Wonder if it's got anything to do with choosing shamans -- look at Muktar's, just after your post, which also has a fine, complex internal logic.

The Rakkon really appeal to me (guess who grew up on Ring of Bright Water?) Maybe we should start a thread on Most Popular Non-Humans in NS, eh?

The Crystal Cities use magic, although because of the queens Mages Are Bred for that reason. Those who do not use magic are mostly Workers and Warriors.

The Mages are taught how to come to their magic, and age at a much slower rate then others. As their skills progress, a design of Coloured Web like Filliments grow on the Chintian, and the Mages are the only huminoids. We interact with non magic as with those with magic, our magic is mostly used for construction, but their are skills that can be used for battle, and are.

I'm interested in how your nation itself regards magic (beneficial? immoral?);Depends. The church considers magic to be a sin, and witchhunts (On commoners, since they cannot get the actual witches) are common.

However, there are survivors of old, naturalistic cults, some of whom can be called witches/ magicians etc.. They are generally regarding their own magic beneficial (Though, on occasion, risky).

And then there are the five of God Hand (Gods, of a sort. They are (Usually) incapable of walking in the realsm of the 'normal' world, though) and its apostles (Think balrogs on Steroids). Their very existence defies the laws of physics, and they are more or less entirely 'magical' beings. They are also the evil force, but of course... For them, this is a good thing.

whether magic-users have to train or be educated, and how this is done;Depends. The normal, 'mortal' witches and magicians do indeed need to train/ be educated (And in principle, every person is capable of doing magic, but only a very few are actually managing it).

The Apostles of the five of God Hand, however, don't need to train. They receive their abilities (Not usually actual magic, but some sort of 'transformation' capacity) by way of sacrificing their humanity, that is, by sacrificing their dearest (Friends, parents, siblings...) to be consumed by their future form.

do you RP your magic mainly for battles, or is it integrated into your (nation's) fabric;Theoretically, the latter, but since this is a very violent world, effectively the former. Of course, i would need to RP this puppet to begin with...

are there non-magic users in your nation;Yes, see above.

how do you interact with non-magic nations;Seeing as the source has non- magic constantly interacting with magic, like with everyone else. Assuming that i would interact, of course...

and do you have, or feel the need for, an explanation of why magic works in your land?
The source has something like an explanation, i think... But no, not really.

Thanks for that thread. (For those too lazy to click -- I know, I know, it's late and the dial-up is slow -- it's an ambitious attempt to catalogue the non-human species in NationStates. An attempt which should be encouraged, hint, hint.)

Your reference to species being uplifted echoes the universe of ... oh, damn, I was going to make an intelligent and penetrating comment and I've forgotten the name. Real classic of SF. Anyway, it's got the Puppeteers; and humans have dolphins and ... dogs? ... as client species. I can see the cover of the first book in my mind's eye ... bah!

Whatever. That's got nothing to do with the lovely way your magic scheme holds together. Wonder if it's got anything to do with choosing shamans -- look at Muktar's, just after your post, which also has a fine, complex internal logic.

The Rakkon really appeal to me (guess who grew up on Ring of Bright Water?) Maybe we should start a thread on Most Popular Non-Humans in NS, eh?

Thank you for your support! Or some such. As for what you're thinking of, that book is Ringworld, and a truly awesome book it is. I didn't read Muktar's post, but I'm reading it now.

Alright, I read it. That's startlingly similar to the Rakkon shaman, sans war and national things. Most shaman do start training early, although it's not to keep them from forming community bonds - those are considered vital - but to keep their attention. Older Rakkon are just as capable of learning, but often older apprentices tend to have wandering minds. Starting early means that the prospective apprentice is steeped in magic from an early age and less likely to discover such distractions as other occupations or the opposite gender.

One thing I'd like to note: The Rakkon "uplifting" wasn't peaceful. They had to fight off a leisure company that considered them a nuisance on a chosen "paradise" world. If they hadn't managed to amuse one of the ship computers in a transport they captured, the resistance would've ended very quickly - in genocide. Being cute, silly, and naive can come in handy sometimes. If they were warlike and barbaric, they wouldn't have been around afterwards.

What is Ring of Bright Water?

What is Ring of Bright Water?

It's a classic story about otters in Scotland. And Ringworld -- of course! *Incipient senility. Or possibly incipient salinity.*

BTW, God Hand, I do admire the play on (words? concepts?) in your nation-name and your Five, but I think I'll do my admiring at a distance. Especially when I remember that "Hand of God" cloud-formation photo the newspapers featured after the Asian tsunami.

I wish I could come up with such really evil ideas as that "sacrifice" bit. I think someone must have turned on the Parental Filter in my brain, because every time I try to RP violence it sounds wimpy. Even Walt Disney does it better.

I wish I could come up with such really evil ideas as that "sacrifice" bit. I think someone must have turned on the Parental Filter in my brain, because every time I try to RP violence it sounds wimpy. Even Walt Disney does it better.Well, when orcs were still dominant in the Nortun Range in what is now northern Muktar, they practiced a varient shamanistic ritual magic that used the caster's blood as a conduit for primal energies. Detailed records of our expansion into the mountains noted the increased nuisance of suicide mages.

Yeah, but they're your suicide mages. Maybe next time I have to RP violence I'll just do a cut-and-paste from some of the Mods' rulings ... ;)

Yeah, but they're your suicide mages. Maybe next time I have to RP violence I'll just do a cut-and-paste from some of the Mods' rulings ... ;)No, they were suicide mages of orcs trying to defend their territory from our expansion. What they would do is slit their wrists and let the drops of blood summon minor fire demons.

Did you see this comment about us in the UN forum?

DemonLordEnigma:

The reason you don't see anything involving Magic Nations is the simple fact of how rare they are. The majority of them are a combination of Magic and a different tech level, such as FT. Pure Magic Nations are simply too rare in most cases to be given a voice. And yet certain elements of magic, such as vampires and elves, are more than common.

But don't anyone get their knickers in a knot. In case you haven't been following the debate, DLE isn't being dismissive or unkind about Magic Nations. The comment is part of a detailed argument about how much RP is too much in the United Nations forum. I'm quoting it here to help me push my barrow about the need for some sort of ready-reference for the magic nations. Given the differences that have been showing up, I can't see anything we'd all want a say in. Even if we did, I can't imagine we'd speak with one voice -- unless, of course, the NS UN decided to ban magic, which seems unlikely. (Heeee -- think what a refugee problem that'd create!)

My people use magic but first they have to make a pact with CHAOS and then they can only use it in battle or for amusement(both have the same word in my nation)

DLE is an ally of mine in several alliances. DLE uses magic itself and runs itself as a FT nation, just the same as I do. There is a significant presence of both mages and vampires in its population.

DLE could be a good voice for us. Good RPing in the couple events in which we both have participated.

For the thing about speaking with one voice.
I say it's time we united. The Wizards council was created for many purposes.
We are not Warmongers nor do we wish to become so, but we are here to unite the voices of Magitek Nations into a single voice. We seek to bring uniformity to Magic, to some degree, to bring about a wider acceptance of it. We seek to teach any who want to learn more about Magic. We seek to bring about rules to it. There are many things we seek to do, click on the Wizards Council link in my Sig and join, let your voice be heard. Help the voice of Magic be heard.

IC: Ardchoille can't even speak with one voice within its own councils. The last thing we'd need is to have even more people to squabble with. We're Celts, for Herself's sake! All in love with our own views and uniting only in the National Choir (which, by the way, takes out first place every year at our Regional Eistedfodd). -- Dicey Reilly, co-President.

OOC: That said, if the Magitek nations are interested in forming a union, it would make a good thread/RP. Everyone, please do follow up the Wizards' Council link; it's really intriguing. So much work's obviously gone into it, and from what I saw in a brief visit it all hangs together.

Warhaven, is it permitted for an individual from a nation to seek entrance to the College? Would having an individual in training there commit his/her nation to anything? Some of us might like to RP a student ... well, all right, I'd like to RP a student ... but not if it means any form of binding alliance. I regard my nation as allied only with the others in my region. (Of course, there's always the 'puppet' option.)

As what I know of as the first Magitek group, we are kind of an alliance. How ever, This concept of training an individual must be reviewed by my fellow members. I am the Head of The council, and initially, I say yes, but, there is also the Creed to consider. It requires a Nation sig, not a Character Sig. We are not binding though. We are not Warmongers. The Reason we have a Military test is in case you ever wish to enter the Mage Forces. It is a Required Test to get in however, even if you don't want to enter the forces. The Magic test is Self-Explainitory, I mean, common, we are a Magic Council. I do not think they would have a problem with this, however as I said, I must discuss this with them.

We require our members to follow our rules of Magic. Thats why we have the Creed. As soon as we have come up with some fair rules, we'll post them. But That requirement is for entire Nations. As well, The Character sent to the council, is also our Liason to that Characters nation ICly. I will have Kaymiril look at this and see what she thinks.

The Apostles of the five of God Hand, however, don't need to train. They receive their abilities (Not usually actual magic, but some sort of 'transformation' capacity) by way of sacrificing their humanity, that is, by sacrificing their dearest (Friends, parents, siblings...) to be consumed by their future form.

OOC: Holy Crap, that sounds just like Berserk!

Okay, to answer the recently posed "Can I send a character without binding my nation to anything?" question, for a time.

I believe that sending a character is a good way for you to determine whether or not the Council is a good decison for your nation. However, if after a time you still have not made up your mind, you will have to either sign your nation's name to the Creed or leave entirely.

All teachers in the College are fully capable of teaching their respective subjects, and we can offer a wide variety of classes that have not appeared as of yet.

Here is the link: http://s9.invisionfree.com/The_Wizards_Council/index.php?

Me and Kaymiril agree, and between the two of us, we should be able to get Snake Eaters and Balrogga to agree to a trial program. Here is our NS recruitment thread:
http://www.forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=406603 Furthur questions can be posed here until you join. Then, after you join, we've got specific Forums for questions and Answers and complaints.

Thanks. Warhaven and Kaymaril. I'll get to it as soon as I can get to the computer that I can spend lots of time on (this one is shared). Maybe there'll be a few takers from the other nations reading this and you can have a student intake?

That would be nice. I don't teach anyone save for the best most promising students. I would have to start with the Teachers first though. Kaymiril's Mages, and a character of Balrogga's, Galvenor, teach the Magic classes. Galvenor starts with the novices, The mages cooperate with Galvenor on the more serious parts. My character, Warfare, keeps the knowledge of lost and forbidden spells. Snake Eaters character, Col. James Couger teaches Combat training, and later will teach how to use Magic effectivly in combat. From any of these students I will take the most gifted and teach them Secret techniques known in the ancient world, lost over time, and reborn today. I will also teach the art of summoning. Eventually.

Ugh. Summoning is a pain in the arse.

Why did they have to be lost? Did all the mages suffer from sudden amnesia and forget how to cast spells? They weren't capable of figuring out how to cast spells, or how to work their way back to the spells they had somehow forgotten? Why is the past always better than the present; why not move beyond what someone had come up with a few centuries ago and make somethign new? Sheesh. Plus, what if spells Warfare thinks are forbidden exist elsewhere?

Hmmm...summoning...well....depends on what sort of summoning.

Combat magic, well, that's a whole other area. The best thaumaturge can crack up under pressure, then she gets a daisy cutter from a few hundred kilometers above into the brain and there goes the mage. Wasted talent, really, especially if we're talking about those thaumaturges that can't wear armor, or that need to do the hoky and the poky with a few giant tomes and whatnot, or that do useless things like shoot fireballs at a tank. Sure, he'll melt a bit of the tank, assuming he can ignite the stuff in the air and make it burn at quite a few degrees kelvin, but there'll be more tanks where that came from.

Anyways...generally speaking most modern tech nations will not accept magic. A few postmodern and future-tech nations will not accept magic. The vast number of wars will degenerate into bitching about wank as soon as you bring magic in. As part of real warfare, mages are about as useful as knights in armor, and it only gets worse as technology gets better. As part of regular RPs, it really doesn't matter what your tech level is, because thaumaturges are ultimately just people (or elves, or kzin, or orkc, or shadows from the eighteenth dimension)...

Thanks, Weyr. You've raised some of the problems I had in mind when starting this thread -- the apparently widespread lack of acceptance of combat magic among those who RP battles, and the generally low tolerance of magic nations using their magic in RPs with non-magic ones. (I've had no trouble if I explain early on what magic my characters have and how they use it -- others?)

I don't think it's unreasonable to RP on the basis of 'lost knowledge'. The progress of real-world technology hasn't been one smooth upward curve. I'm no expert on the history of science, but even I can think of knowledge that has been discovered and re-discovered -- the fields of astronomy and agriculture come to mind, but I'm sure the chemists and doctors among us could come up with some, too. Often some sort of catastrophe (war, disease, declining population, the burning of the Library of Alexandria) has been the cause, but you also get gradual ones (like climate change or migration) that simply remove the need for particular information. Then there's social change that causes the loss or dumbing-down of the tech classes. Technological change does it, too. There's not much demand now for coopers, wheelwrights or hot-metal printers. At the moment we could probably revive these crafts, if we needed to, by asking old workers or by reading books, but even books die.

All of which has a lot to do with the way I RP my particular magic nation, where magic was in decline and on the verge of extinction because humans had frightened away, wiped out or ruined the habitats of the original Magical Creatures. Then they met the Cats ...

BTW, anyone else here have magic-linked felines? I saw one RP where an individual had a telepathic panther. That's not counting felinous, if that's a word, aliens, like the Kzin or the cats (forgotten their name, dammit!) in McCaffrey's Decision at Doona.

Ugh. Summoning is a pain in the arse.

Oh, my. Please, no details on how it's done.

Well, I really don't have to worry about someone cracking, because Magicis an inherent part of my species Lives. Each breed of Sliver has a diffrent pair of abilities that stretch the laws of nature. My main Character, Warfare, is an IC God/Goddess. Gods are much more able to focus in combat than a regular mortal mage. As for the bit about lost knowledge, the spells I'm on about were crafted Eons ago when magic was first starting. These spells were powerful, but slowly lost because people were afraid of them. The Forbidden spells are spells that would usually get an Ignore. Spells like Lolth's Plague, a spell which kills its victim in five days or less.
Tiamets curse, a Curse which made people slowly fall apart over the course of 24 hours.
As for summoning, My form of summoning may or may not be a pain, it all depends on how much the summons likes you.

H'mm...I should compile and post the actual study of magick from the first 15 pages of the White Tower. After that, it pretty much all disintegrates into rp.

And Weyr, no one's making you do this. If you don't like it...leave.

ooc:
I apologise for bumping this.
*blames Ardchoille*
While I've never thought of the Queendom of Randomea as anything other than a Nation of pacifist humans with pet dragons...who's main focus seem to be at the forefront of (harmless) technology and an affinity for espionage I have roleplayed Robin Hobb's magics elsewhere. Just not on NS. It makes an interesting variant to the normal physical magics and even telepathic magics that you find. Obviously there's the usual hedgewizardy and scrying, but I tended to focus on the two mind magics.
Anyone tried to rp Ketherine Kerr's magic? That is all about how 'magic' is nothing more than interacting with astral planes and the 'wildfolk' who control the elements etc. Thus making logs burst into flame is just asking the fire-wild folk to light them, but it seems to have a lot to do with an almost aura like energy too, and both shape changing and scrying exist.

*Whines: Why blame me? Lookit that sig! Nobody tells her what to do!*

No wonder I've always had a sneaking suspicion I'd enjoy Randomea if I ever went there. So your best mage/wizard/witch would also be your most amiable, because he/she/it is best at coaxing the wildfolk? Or can the wildfolk be compelled?

You're brave, RPing Robin Hobb-style. Did you concentrate on the Liveships and that strange fetid jungle or did you go for the castles-plus-magic? Someone on NS plays something similar to her Northern folk, too, but I can't remember who.

I've never analysed Katherine Kerr's magic like that; I tend to just step into an author's world and accept it, unless something really grates (like, I wouldn't flinch at having trees turn into warriors but I'd have trouble with warrior breadsticks. Except in Discworld.) It's a fascinating new way for me to look at her work; thanks for that.

Well as I said, I've never given Randomea magic. I supose it's a possibility, but it's just I've got out of the NS rp scene mostly, it's too frustrating.

On the dweomer front, dark (evil) dweomer can force wildfolk to do things, through 'torture' and fear. It is also possible to trap them in gems. For good dweomer the wildfolk will do things voluntarily, and will often flock to really good ones.

For Hobb's I stuck to the mind-magics of Old Blood and the Skill. But as I had a dragon as a pet/bond partner I also added elderling features. Noting I started the character when I was only nearing midway through the Liveship series. As the other books were read/came out I did add other things, like cats having a greater predeliction for Old Blood, as I already had a tiger as another pet.