NationStates Jolt Archive

this is for suggestions on how to improve the Cup, asking questions, talkign about how it's done, and any other out of character chat about it. please resist the temptation to tell another player off, and treat each other as politely as you would treat your mother. or better, for those who dont get along with their mothers.

Woop. OOC. I don't actually have anything to say. I managed to fail this, somehow. Is it a talent to be able to fail at everything?.

FLP, If it's a talent I seem to have mastered it.

Just a suggestion for when i bid for CCX... I propose an All-Star Game of the best players between the Round Robin and the Relegation Round. Just for fun and maybe a few laughs.

FLP, If it's a talent I seem to have mastered it.

Just a suggestion for when i bid for CCX... I propose an All-Star Game of the best players between the Round Robin and the Relegation Round. Just for fun and maybe a few laughs.

Bugger, I even failed to be a decent failure. Wait, does that make me a superior failure?. Damned paradox.

Just a suggestion for when i bid for CCX... I propose an All-Star Game of the best players between the Round Robin and the Relegation Round. Just for fun and maybe a few laughs.

How do you decide on the players, and who RPs the game?

How do you decide on the players, and who RPs the game?

Just thinking... each player puts forward 2 or 3 players and the rankings for each team play aginst each other. Example

1,3,5,7,9,11,13,15,17 vs. 2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16,18

each team puts 2 players and you have 2 teams of 18 play.

Just thinking... each player puts forward 2 or 3 players and the rankings for each team play aginst each other. Example

1,3,5,7,9,11,13,15,17 vs. 2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16,18

each team puts 2 players and you have 2 teams of 18 play.

That requires a lot of participation, and not everyone a) does anything after signing up or b) posts a roster

Liverpool England Bid for CCX
-12 to 24 teams
-12 teams: 4 groups of 3, winners go through, 7-game series for championship
-14 teams: 2 groups of 7, top 4 per group go through, one-legged encounters until final (7-game-series)
-16 teams: a) Outright knockout (1 leg all the way), b) Knockout (1 legged games until a 7-game series final) or c) 4 groups of 4, top 2 qualify, one-legged encounters until 7-game series final
-18 teams: 3 groups of 6, winners go through, second-placed teams playoff for another spot. 1-legged semifinals, but a 7-game series final.
-20 teams: 4 groups of 5, top 2 qualify, 1-leg semifinal, 7-game-series final
-22 teams: 2 groups of 11, top 8 qualify, 1 legged matches until 7-game series for final
-24 teams: 4 groups of 6, sending the top 2 per group through. 1 legged knockout until the final, a best of 7.
-No longer than two weeks - scores will be posted daily.
-More to come

Hockey Canada's Unofficial Bid for CCX:

3 weeks

12-30 teams

12 teams- 2 conferences of 6, top 4 in each conference go through
14 teams- 2 conferences of 7, top 4 in each conference go through
16 teams- 4 divisions of 4, top 2 in each division go through
18 teams- 2 conferences of 9, top 4 in each conference go through

(all above will play a one game elimination in the quarter-finals, semi-finals and finals to determine the winner)

20 teams- 4 divisions of 5, top 2 in each division go through
22 teams- 2 divisions of 5 and 2 divisions of 6, top 2 in each division go through
24 teams- 6 divisions of 4, top team in each division will go through and 2 wild cards with the most points will go through
26 teams- 4 divisions of 4 and 2 divisions of 5, top team in each division will advance and the 2nd place team in each division of 5 will go through
28 teams- 4 divisions of 7, top 2 in each division will go through
30 teams- 5 divisions of 6 top team in each division and 3 wild cards with the most points advance

(all above will play a one game elimination in the quarter-finals. In the semi-finals and finals, a 3-game series will be played to determine a winner)

Daily Posts

SportsVision Reports

Daily Scouting on different teams

"Bettman Report"

More to come...

Quick note, you couldnt possibly do scout reports on different teams as it may mess up what they're trying to do RP-wise...

Quick note, you couldnt possibly do scout reports on different teams as it may mess up what they're trying to do RP-wise...

what i meant was:

Liverpool England-
Tearing up the Smythe Division after a 6-2 win over Nowhereville, an offensive explosion by captain _____ (you'd have ur roster's captain and i'd put his name) with an amazing 3 goals. Goalie ____ ____ stopped 35 shots in the effort.

Starblaydia-
Seems the dwarves are making the other teams look small in the Adams Division with another big 4-1 win over Suchandsuch. Outplaying everyone it seems in this tournement, Starblaydia needs just one more win to clinch 1st spot in the Adams Division. Goalie _____ ______ from the _____ _____ (team name) is shining throughout the tournement with only 16 goals allowed in 12 games!

Chicanada is interested in hosting one of these Cherry Cups in the future and even competing in the next cup. I am confused by the discussion of "scorinator" though. Could anyone explain that, by chance? It would be greatly appreciated by our committee.

I am confused by the discussion of "scorinator" though. Could anyone explain that, by chance? It would be greatly appreciated by our committee.

NSWiki - Scorinate (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/index.php/Scorinate)

EDIT: Doesnt help pasting the link into the text and the text into the link now, does it?

that work 4 ya?... Ummmm Starblaydia, it isn't really loading.

Ah, that makes more sense. Thanks Starblaydia!

I tried to download it (for all 4 versions) but it just won't work. Do you think something is wrong with it?

BTW, how do you like my idea for scouting? pretty cool eh?

I tried to download it (for all 4 versions) but it just won't work. Do you think something is wrong with it?

BTW, how do you like my idea for scouting? pretty cool eh?

No, it sounds like either your computer is busted or you don't know how to run java programs properly.

Scouting? Sounds like reading every one else RPs and writing about them, to me. I think Iansisle's overviews of teams moving around in the table and their runs and stuff in CC8 were just about right.

That's the first time I've seen that NS encyclopedia thing. That owns.

Is this thing going to work or what? We totally threw this one in the trash.

Is this thing going to work or what? We totally threw this one in the trash.

Define 'this thing', if you mean this as an OOC thread then oh look, there's been no real OOC chatter in the CC9 thread.

Hey howdy everyone. Sorry I've not been around lately, but it's been one hell of a week and is looking to be a beautiful weekend tosser. Promise I'll start posting again soon! ;)

Ian

Good to see you back Ian... was going to check the funeral home forums. :D

Has anyone else noticed that the tables (at least for the Capital Conference) are severely wrong? According to them, there are nine teams to play one final match, so...that's not right. I have no idea whether I'm through or not!!!

Has anyone else noticed that the tables (at least for the Capital Conference) are severely wrong? According to them, there are nine teams to play one final match, so...that's not right. I have no idea whether I'm through or not!!!

Yeah. It seems a little rushed. But I'm waiting to see how it pans out.

I suppose it'll all turn out fine in the end, and we'll laugh about it over cups of cocoa later in life.

Not meaning to be critical - just curious - is this pause in the action in CC IX normal? When can we expect the next set of results?

Yes, I can't wait to see how badly I lose to Vilita. :p

Do I really have a shot against Tanah Burung?

Sure you have a chance. That's supposed to be the point of the Cherry cup.

Like in the last one when Frozcheva made it to the semis.

[QUOTE=Fimble loving peoples](OOC: I explained what a Fimble was during the last cup. To cut the story short, it is an invention of mine I have worked meticulously to design in every math class since September.)

Ooohhh.

I thought you meant the stupid things out of that children's television programme called 'The Fimbles'.

The Fimbles (http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38276000/jpg/_38276501_fimble150.jpg)

My mistake. :p

[QUOTE=Fimble loving peoples](OOC: I explained what a Fimble was during the last cup. To cut the story short, it is an invention of mine I have worked meticulously to design in every math class since September.)

Ooohhh.

I thought you meant the stupid things out of that children's television programme called 'The Fimbles'.

The Fimbles (http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38276000/jpg/_38276501_fimble150.jpg)

My mistake. :p

No. Though they do own.

ooc-er: Ian - you're in San Diego? Damn - that's where I was all last week, visiting my son.

Well, not at the moment. I live with my parents in San Diego but I attend school at the University of Arizona in (cough - lovely) Tucson, where I am right now. So I guess that 'location' is really a bit misleading; it ought to be 'Place where I live large parts of the year, but at which I am not necessarily located at this exact moment.' :D

In what part of San Diego does your son live?

Well, not at the moment. I live with my parents in San Diego but I attend school at the University of Arizona in (cough - lovely) Tucson, where I am right now. So I guess that 'location' is really a bit misleading; it ought to be 'Place where I live large parts of the year, but at which I am not necessarily located at this exact moment.' :D

In what part of San Diego does your son live?He's at UCSD - doctoral candidate in political science. His apartment is in La Jolla.

Good for him! UCSD is a beautiful campus; La Jolla is a beautiful town. The La Jolla Shores were actually my favorite beach growing up but they've since become too crowded. Best wishes to him in his academic career!

I'm from Poway (that's inland along the I-15 corridor; just south of Escondido) myself. I'd like to move back after I graduate; of course, with land prices, I'll probably end up living in Escondido or Ramona instead. :)

In other words, if you didn't keep spouting bullshit, I wouldn't have to clean up after you.

If you had ever onced tried contacting me via telegram, or instant messanger of any kind of which I am always available, then there never would have been a problem and none of any of this would ever have taken place, but you just want to be the knight in shining armour who takes credit for standing up to big bad Vilita. I have made myself very clear in the past and even during these arguements. If you attack me, then I will respond. If you choose to do this publically, then I will respond publically. Since none of these arguements have started as me having a problem with you, but instead you butting in when I was addressing someone else, it is your impetus to take the discussion off the forums and into telegrams, emails, or external chat. But if you want to keep playing this stupid game, you know I'll always be up for it, if just to please you're desire to get noticed.



And for note, I support Liverpool England's bid.

here's the sign-up thread for the next one:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=403293

If you had ever onced tried contacting me via telegram, or instant messanger of any kind of which I am always available, then there never would have been a problem and none of any of this would ever have taken place,

I suppose I could have done that, but talking to you even this much makes me sick to my stomach.

but you just want to be the knight in shining armour who takes credit for standing up to big bad Vilita.

It's a dirty, thankless job. Trust me. But someone's got to do it.

I have made myself very clear in the past and even during these arguements. If you attack me, then I will respond. If you choose to do this publically, then I will respond publically. Since none of these arguements have started as me having a problem with you, but instead you butting in when I was addressing someone else, it is your impetus to take the discussion off the forums and into telegrams, emails, or external chat.

The hell? What forum have you been reading? Every argument of ours starts with you attacking someone. Every. single. one. You find a fault with everyone who runs a Cherry Cup (or any other sporting event), especially if they don't do it just your way. I stick up for them, and I get accused of starting this?

But if you want to keep playing this stupid game, you know I'll always be up for it,

I'd much rather play 'this stupid game' than roll over and let you dictate the Cherry Cup as I'm sure you'd love to do. By the way, you implied last Cherry Cup that you would not be able to host this one, and yet I notice that you've forwarded a bid. Is that an admission that your pre-CCIX statements were just a damn dirty lie to help garner sympathy votes?

...if just to please you're desire to get noticed.

I am not a desire to get noticed. I am a human being. What the hell does "you're a desire to get noticed" even mean?

May I please put in a word? All I asked for was who scorinated the final, as I've never liked it when a host did a final he was in (or semi-final for that matter; I don't care about the Quarters and those before). There is absolutely no need for this arguement, and I hope you both calm down.

I suppose I could have done that, but talking to you even this much makes me sick to my stomach. The hell? What forum have you been reading? Every argument of ours starts with you attacking someone. Every. single. one. You find a fault with everyone who runs a Cherry Cup (or any other sporting event), especially if they don't do it just your way. I stick up for them, and I get accused of starting this?

My point exactly. Like I said, all these arguements start when I am addressing someone else, and you stick your nose in and get involved. If it werent for you, these would be very short simple matters, but you just won't let them die, even when I make it perfectly clear that I could care less, and the only reason I even respond anymore is because you do. I have told you very very clearly that you could end this simply by responding to me on telegram, or ignoring me. I have offered a way to stop this, you have chosen not to accept to and keep dragging this on and on and on.

So who is it that is tarnishing the cherry cup? Me? Who has done two things, one, inform someone who was new that their annoying antics had to be calmed down, something that had to be done by others after me, which was something that needed no response from anyone and would have been over with right then. Me? Who ASKED the host who scorinated their knockout round matches, which would have been settled in maximum two exchanges such as "no one, i did them" then i would have said "thats a little questionable, you might want to consider doing something else in the future."

Or you. Who had to butt in when I told Hockey Canada that he was too annoying, and start a long arguement about anything under the sun, then complain about the arguement, that you yourself instigated. Then again, you, who butts in when I am addressing THE HOST, which you are not, and look where we are now.

So who is the dictator, the one who asks the questions, or the one that thinks they have the right to answer them on behalf of everyone?







As for the hosting, I indicated I might not be able to host 10. This one has gone by quickly enough that will allow for me to host 10, but certainly not 11. I will still be supporting liverpool england for host, however.

VERY OOC ---

Ian: Your turn in the barrel.

Vil is extremely proficient at stirring up crap like this, and then twisting it around to make it look like whoever complains about his nonsense is the one at fault. I tried arguing with him, and I tried making peace with him - and the result was he kept on being a pain in the ass, and kept on with rhetoric trying to make it look like I was the one causing the problem.

Which he no doubt will do with this - so, Vil, have fun with it, because I won't be bothered to respond.

Which he no doubt will do with this - so, Vil, have fun with it, because I won't be bothered to respond.

You really are just everwhere aren't you:)

Anyawy, I have no objections to this statement. Although there is one difference, when me and you started quarelling, Snub, It was an issue between you and me. It started when I was hosting World Cup 17, so it was clear for us to disagree. Here is a different case, where I never had a problem with Iansisle, But simply questioning Hockey Canada and Oliverry. Iansisle is not involved in anyway, unless of course he sees himself as the representative dictator of the cherry cup, which is becoming more and more apparent. But in the end, the premise is the same, if he wants to keep it in public view, i'll keep it in public view. As for Snub, We had a perfectly fine conversation once we were off the forums :P

LE: Don't worry, this isn't about you. You asked very nicely - in fact, you asked the way that Vilita CLAIMS he did.

My point exactly. Like I said, all these arguements start when I am addressing someone else, and you stick your nose in and get involved. If it werent for you, these would be very short simple matters, but you just won't let them die, even when I make it perfectly clear that I could care less, and the only reason I even respond anymore is because you do. I have told you very very clearly that you could end this simply by responding to me on telegram, or ignoring me. I have offered a way to stop this, you have chosen not to accept to and keep dragging this on and on and on.

This just makes me laugh out loud. Why didn't you ask Oliverry who scorinated the final in a nice, private TG rather than insult him? It would appear, Mr Kettle, that you are every bit as black as am I!

Besides, I've never seen you forward a complaint in a "short, simple" manner. You start off with sarcastic and biting comments and circle around the matter, before coming out at accusing them of not doing things the way you would have.

So who is it that is tarnishing the cherry cup? Me? Who has done two things, one, inform someone who was new that their annoying antics had to be calmed down, something that had to be done by others after me, which was something that needed no response from anyone and would have been over with right then. Me? Who ASKED the host who scorinated their knockout round matches, which would have been settled in maximum two exchanges such as "no one, i did them" then i would have said "thats a little questionable, you might want to consider doing something else in the future."

Excuse me. This part of the post, I believe, needs no further clarification from me to appear as utterly ridiculous as it is.

I've never seen you handle anything in that manner, and I doubt it is even constitutionally possible for you to do so.

Or you. Who had to butt in when I told Hockey Canada that he was too annoying, and start a long arguement about anything under the sun, then complain about the arguement, that you yourself instigated. Then again, you, who butts in when I am addressing THE HOST, which you are not, and look where we are now.

Excuse me? For those of us with short term memory loss, you insulted HC and called him stupid. I like Hockey Canada - he's well intentioned, if a little overzealous. I will not stand by and let you insult someone who never did anything more than annoy you (though God knows that is a mortal sin!).

Lastly, I think we all know you're out to torpedo Oliverry's hosting bid. I believe that he should have the chance to host a fun, productive Cherry Cup just like the rest of us. If you want to make snide remarks every time something goes wrong, that's entirely your prerogative. However, know that I will call you on it every time.

So who is the dictator, the one who asks the questions, or the one that thinks they have the right to answer them on behalf of everyone?

You know, that doesn't really describe either one of us. It's more like "the annoying belligerent who insults everyone" and "the guy brave enough to stand up to the bully."

But I forget! Oliverry's hosting was really just a cruel plot on my part intended to further my own dictatorial control of the Cherry Cup! After all, I sat behind in the shadows manipulating everyone in sight to vote for him while forcing him (that's the part I love) to change his own bid! Surely I should just change my name to Dr. Fink Nefarious, wear a black cape and a monocle and laugh in an evil manner!

SNUB: It is nice to know that I'm not the only one who has ever had these problems. However, I've seen what's happened to the World Cup since you were forced to abandon the fight (that's why I dropped out) and I'll be absolutely damned if I let it happen to the Cherry Cup. There are just too many people who participate in the CC only because the WC is too Vilitafied to let him ruin this tournament too.

I simply hope that most people are smart enough to see through his rhetoric and know that his arguments are as ridiculous as they are. After all he'll say that...

Iansisle ... sees himself as representative dictator of the cherry cup, which is becoming more and more apparent.

...simply because I have the moral fortitude to call him out when he insults other people. *shakes head sadly*

To both Iansisle and Vilita:

Please stop that. What is Cherry Cup if there are any battles. This is supposed to be a nice and pacific cup. If you need battles, ask for the host to have both of you in the same group. Then, you'll be able to RP a general fight.

To both Iansisle and Vilita:

Please stop that. What is Cherry Cup if there are any battles. This is supposed to be a nice and pacific cup. If you need battles, ask for the host to have both of you in the same group. Then, you'll be able to RP a general fight.

You're right, of course, Oliverry. I am really sorry - it is just that Vilita's mere presence, his hypocritical and holier-than-thou attitude and the smugness with which he wields it make my blood boil in rage.

I only want what is best for the Cherry Cup, and you're quite right that fighting is not the answer. Those who know me know that I am generally a very laid-back, easy-going guy. I cannot explain, nor can I really justify, what has gotten into me. I'll do my best to stop - but I will not stop defending my friends.

Why didn't you ask Oliverry who scorinated the final in a nice, private TG rather than insult him?

Because the purpose of my message was to ensure that no further results were generated in this manner, therefore, i flagged it as urgent, and I have no knowledge as to whether or not Oliverry regularly checks TG's. I never once called for a resim of the match, even when offered, so don't try and turn this around saying I had only my own intentions in mind.

It would appear, Mr Kettle, that you are every bit as black as am I!

I never said I wasn't...

Besides, I've never seen you forward a complaint in a "short, simple" manner. You start off with sarcastic and biting comments and circle around the matter, before coming out at accusing them of not doing things the way you would have.....I've never seen you handle anything in that manner, and I doubt it is even constitutionally possible for you to do so.

Yea, they call it a personality trait, most people either get used to it and ignore it, try and find out more about it, or try to change it if they disagree so much with it. Then there are a select few who knowingly insight it, which leaves us here :) As for not doing things the way I would have, thats debatable. Some of my arguements may be based on this, but just as many are irrelevant to this, and I will even argue against my own point of view.


Excuse me? For those of us with short term memory loss, you insulted HC and called him stupid. I like Hockey Canada - he's well intentioned, if a little overzealous. I will not stand by and let you insult someone who never did anything more than annoy you (though God knows that is a mortal sin!).

I never called HC stupid, thats you twisting my statement around. I was alarmed by the, as you say it, overzealousness of a new user, and knew it had the potential to escalate, as an undeniably experienced host, especially when it comes to new nations. The comment about stupidity was intended to send a warning of the lines, using your termonology, "overzealousness is fine, but dont get out of hand" Since then Hockey Canada has received a warning and had over 12 posts deleted or moved by moderators for being entirely off topic or spam.


Lastly, I think we all know you're out to torpedo Oliverry's hosting bid. I believe that he should have the chance to host a fun, productive Cherry Cup just like the rest of us. If you want to make snide remarks every time something goes wrong, that's entirely your prerogative. However, know that I will call you on it every time.

It's funny, because I was never out to "torpedo" Oliverry's hosting bid. I participated just the same as I had in past cherry cups, and did not cause one iota of problems towards the cup, until the end when Oliverry was scoring his own knockout round results.

I also think its funny how damn scared you are that I'm going to ruin your cup. As far as I can tell, the only thing that has happened to in anyway damage the cup is you getting your panties in a twist and taking it out on me. Seriously, this whole thing started out because I indicated a desire to host the tournament, and indicated the method in which I would be running it. If you didnt agree with it, all you had to do was not vote for me, but you chose to turn it into all this.

To both Iansisle and Vilita:

Please stop that. What is Cherry Cup if there are any battles. This is supposed to be a nice and pacific cup. If you need battles, ask for the host to have both of you in the same group. Then, you'll be able to RP a general fight.

It was funny because we were drawn in the World Cup finals last cup. I tried taking it to an RP war, but Iansisle I guess wasn't up for that :)

--snip--

You see, Oliverry? Do you see now why I am increasingly drawn into circular arguments? It's the rhetorical equivalent of bashing my head against a wall.

My favorite parts include where he alleges that calling HC's actions "stupidity" is not the same as impling that HC is stupid. Or this

Yea, they call it a personality trait, most people either get used to it and ignore it, try and find out more about it, or try to change it if they disagree so much with it. Then there are a select few who knowingly insight it, which leaves us here As for not doing things the way I would have, thats debatable. Some of my arguements may be based on this, but just as many are irrelevant to this, and I will even argue against my own point of view.

completely unintelligable paragraph. I've read it a few times now, and the best I can figure is that it is part of Vilita's personality to be an annoying obstructionist git and that I should just shut up and deal with it. Oh, and that I'm not allowed to be annoying and obstructionist, only him.

Or the part where he alleges that I should send all messages which reveal him to be a scheming little ass by telegram, whereas he is free to post all the insulting and inflamitory things he wants on the message board (perhaps because of the above mentioned personality defect?).

Anyway, I've promised myself that I will not allow his antics to get me riled up, and I will not. Anyway, his alleged 'arguments' fall apart quite well without my help.

Lastly, I'd like to apologize to the other members of the Cherry Cup. I think y'all know that it takes quite a bit to get me as wound up as Vilita has and that, in fact, no other person in almost two years and more than 8,000 posts has managed to have this effect on me. Once again, I apologize for my rôle in continuing this stupidity - perhaps if we can all learn to ignore him, then he'll go away.

My favorite parts include where he alleges that calling HC's actions "stupidity" is not the same as impling that HC is stupid.

It's funny when you talk about "circular arguements" when you keep saying I called HC's actions stupidity, when I clearly explained that situtation in the last post.



the best I can figure is that it is part of Vilita's personality to be an annoying obstructionist git and that I should just shut up and deal with it. Oh, and that I'm not allowed to be annoying and obstructionist, only him.

Pretty much spot on. And I never said you should just shut up and deal with it, I just said that you know what you are getting into before you get into it, and if you want to bring all this negativity to the cup, thats your choice, because everyone already knows how to set me off, and even though Many others, including myself on many occasions, snub nose, and others, have told you that it's pointless to keep arguing and carrying this on, you still do it anyway. I've pretty much sat back in a chair and watched you get off on yourself. And, It's pretty funny how you've built this whole arguement out of absolutely nothing, and then try and blame me for attempting to ruin the cup, based off a completely unrelated comment.

We have the finest scenery offered anywhere on this planet. The people are friendly and we love taking foreigners money, I mean around. We have alot to offer for a competition of this magnitude. We have workout arenas and gyms to get ready for the games.

Since we want to hold it in the capitol, you'll be able see the monuments attributed to our glorious successes as well as tour all the famous sites of the country.

Ah, many thanks Vilita. I've not had a good laugh like that in far too long! :D

I participated just the same as I had in past cherry cups

Only to point out when you were better than Starblaydia, of course ;)


Random Crap

Just be quiet, the both of you, you both want the Cherry Cup to be good. You fail to share the same idea to ensure that. Great. Stop arguing. As the only-two time champ in Cherry Cup history I say 'be quiet, the pair of you'. :p

It's amusing to see an argument in a thread with such a humorous poll :D

Just be quiet, the both of you, you both want the Cherry Cup to be good. You fail to share the same idea to ensure that. Great. Stop arguing. As the only-two time champ in Cherry Cup history I say 'be quiet, the pair of you'. :p


I already told him what to do to stop this, it looks like he's finally done as such, giving me nothing to respond to in his latest post, so hopefully we can put this behind us now and move on to the next cup :)


Anyway, I was thinking while resting just now about a possible format


What does everyone think of this idea

We have a double elimination knockout tournament (you get put into a playoff bracket, if you lose you go to the losers bracket, if you lose in that, you are out) of course the last two teams, the winner of the original bracket and the winner of the losers bracket playoff for the cherry cup. The winner would only have to win once, the loser would have to win twice to lift the cup.

Of course you say "well some teams will only play two games then!"

not so, prior to the bracket stage, there will be a group stage. However, All teams will advance to the knockout stage, regardless of their group finish. For example, if there were 8 groups of 4, say, play each other just once, the top 2 teams get byes into future rounds of the bracket, while the bottom 2 in each group start out in the first round of the bracket.



So, does that make sense to anyone, and if it does, is it any good?


EDIT: If it's too complex, of course, it can just be a single elimination tournament :P the point is putting the emphasis on head to head knockout matches instead of group play!

We have a double elimination knockout tournament

As I just said in #sport, that, for me, is an instant no-no. Far too complex for something that should be so simple.

As I just said in #sport, that, for me, is an instant no-no. Far too complex for something that should be so simple.

As you also just said in #sport, the "conferences" system was complex at first, but you got used to it after a few days and ended up liking it.

As you also just said in #sport, the "conferences" system was complex at first, but you got used to it after a few days and ended up liking it.

I didn't say it was complex, I just didn't understand its purpose.

I already told him what to do to stop this, it looks like he's finally done as such, giving me nothing to respond to in his latest post, so hopefully we can put this behind us now and move on to the next cup :)

Poor, poor, Vilita. Well, you just tell yourself that's what happened. Everyone else will know that I've just decided it's not worth my effort. Everyone can see quite clearly through your deceptions and lies; why should I bother to keep pointing out the numerous inconsistencies within your 'arguments'?

As I just said in #sport, that, for me, is an instant no-no. Far too complex for something that should be so simple.

I quite agree, Mr One Time Cherry Cup Champion. ;) With everything you've said thus far, as a matter of fact.

I quite agree, Mr One Time Cherry Cup Champion. ;) With everything you've said thus far, as a matter of fact.

Apart from the word 'Two', of course ;)

Poor, poor, Vilita. Well, you just tell yourself that's what happened. Everyone else will know that I've just decided it's not worth my effort. Everyone can see quite clearly through your deceptions and lies; why should I bother to keep pointing out the numerous inconsistencies within your 'arguments'?


I don't know, it seems like the only thing you keep doing is saying that i'm wrong and everyone knows it, without actually saying anything to back it up. I have no idea why you have decided to incite me again when it could have been over, but apparently you enjoy bringing arguement to the cherry cup, even when vowing to your supporters to attempt to bring it to a close.

Apart from the word 'Two', of course ;)

Oh, I thought that could be taken for granted. :)

Vilita, really. Give it a rest. I've already stopped bothering to try and penetrate your dense skull - why are you calling my repeated statements that the argument is over a further argument?

Think about it, man: it makes no damn sense, even for your usual plop.

Vilita, really. Give it a rest.

Oh, so now you want me to give it a rest? I've told you to contact me outside the forums, I've told you to ignore me, and I suggested we stop the quarelling and move on to the next cup. But now! Alas! Iansisle thinks it's time to stop! Hoho! Now we should all listen!

Well fine Mr. Dictator. If you say so it must be done. I shall respond no further to your fruitless responses on these forums, if you wish to discuss further, i will offer as I have done many time before, for you to contact me elsewhere.

Alas, good day.

^_-

You're as amusingly nonsensical as ever right up to the end!

:) Thank you

so can we move on now?

Seriously, what about a single elimination style, screw the double elimination

I just thought it would be cool to kind of break away from the group stage thing. The reason I factored double elimination was to give teams more matches before they were out, especially if they had a crap draw. It's been a while since there was a tournament (that i can remember) where the focus was on the one on one matches where you have to win to advance, instead of on the drab group stage matches.. i just thought it might be more exciting!

There's another old saying, Mr I Must Have The Last Word, which goes along the lines of "don't fix what ain't broken."

I don't see what, if anything, is broken with the Cherry Cup. Ergo, it is my opinion that we'd only muck the whole thing up by making radical and untested changes.

I don't see what, if anything, is broken with the Cherry Cup. Ergo, it is my opinion that we'd only muck the whole thing up by making radical and untested changes.

One of the beauties is that the format changes from cup to cup, imho, this is just Vil's idea if he gets to have it.

I liked The Gulf States' series games, and I liked Oliverry's Conference-only-one-third-of-teams-get-dropped-before-playoffs style. Its crazy, but its appealing to me.

Don't know what all the fuss is about! Corneliu is going to win it!

Well, Star, you know my opinion on certain Cherry Cups that have experimented over much. ;) I don't propose that each new Cup ought to be just like the last, but I do think that we ought to refrain from getting too carried away.

In my opinion, too many games loses the quick, fun aspect of the game and too few loses the epic feel of an international championship. I did like Oliverry's Conference format, but I hardly think it was as radical a change as what is here proposed.

As we're debating format, I thought I would present what Chicanada might use for it's bid just to see if it's too radical or complex.

1. Group play - limiting the group size to 5 teams
2. For the knockout stage, it would be stratafied to protect the top teams, sort of how in the West Coast Conference in NCAA Men's Basketball does it.

Example of suggestion in a 16 team knockout stage

Round 1:
1a 9th Best v 16 best
1b 10th best v 15th best
1c 11th best v 14th best
1d 12th best v 13th best

Round 2
2a 5th best v 1d winner
2b 6th best v 1c winner
2c 7th best v 1b winner
2d 8th best v 1a winner

Quaterfinals
3a 1st v 2d winner
3b 2nd v 2c winner
3c 3rd v 2b winner
3d 4th v 2a winner

Semifinals
4a 3a winner v 3d winner
4b 3b winner v 3c winner

Final
4a winner v 4b winner

Too complex?

I like that!

16 team tourny, single elimination format! However, I say it should be a 12 team format with the top 4 seeds getting a bye for the 1st round.

The format for our bid is dependent on how many teams sign up. Right now there's 20, so we would have 4 groups of 5 and a 8 team "Finals" with the top two teams getting a bye to the semifinals.

Once we hit 24 teams, Final 12 from group play. And the 16 is only if we reach 32 teams or more.

As we're debating format, I thought I would present what Chicanada might use for it's bid just to see if it's too radical or complex.

...

Too complex?

Seems fine to me

EDIT: Oh, and by the way new guys, its not really the format of the competition that really matters. As long as its not ludicrous like a double-elimination thing then go for it.

Its the scorination that matters most, to me at least. The evil dice? Less-evil spreadsheets of varying evil levels of complexity? Or the java-induced Eevilness of Leagion?

Chicanada: Seems fine to me too. It's different enough to keep things interesting, but not too radical.

*develops warm fuzzies with people liking the suggestion*

Well, that helps one part of my bid!

OOC: (Sorry, can't find cherry chatter thread)

Bumped:

COLLEGE OF COSMETIC DENTISTRY CONFERENCE
G W L D GF GA Pts
Robotopolis 4 4 0 0 13 2 8 (1)
Liverpool England 4 2 0 2 11 7 6 (2)
Squornshelous 4 1 0 3 13 11 5 (3)
Kalaallit Nunaat 4 2 1 1 12 10 5 (4)
Iansisle 4 2 1 1 9 8 5 (5)
Very Angry Rabbits 4 2 2 0 11 11 4 (6)
Sjwitz 4 2 1 1 12 10 5 (7)
Hockey Canada 4 2 2 0 9 9 4 (8)
Hisam 4 2 2 0 9 11 4 (9)
Euroslavia 4 1 2 1 7 10 3 (10)

How come Sjwitz are 7th and noth 5th or 6th, in fact?

Actually, I think that in CCXI we could try to use an olympic format. The bottom 8 or 6 teams entered would play a round robin to get into the round robin (for the top whatever teams). Then each team plays each team in their conference before moving onto the relegation round to see who goes to the finals.


Just a suggestion.

That sounds awfully long winded - how long does this Olympic tournament take to complete?

How come Sjwitz are 7th and noth 5th or 6th, in fact?

To quote:

Playoff format:

Top two teams in each division qualify and get a first-round bye.

The third-placed team in each division, plus the fourth-place team with the msot points, advance to a wild-card round. These four play each other for the final two spots in the conference quarter-finals.

Sjwitz had the misfortune to be third (by a hare, heh) because of their loss to Kalaallit Nunaat; even though their record was better than two second place teams, they still had to be the next seed because they were only third in their division. It's a tough break, but completely consistant with TB's stated playoff ranking system.

Okido, my bad :rolleyes:

That sounds awfully long winded - how long does this Olympic tournament take to complete?

2-3 weeks.

Sorry but you had it coming and he is a jedi master.

OOC2: It isn't plastic and his arm would've came off. So I'll assume you know nothing of Jedi or your godmodding.

IC: "I am Jedi Master and Admiral John Server! Commander of all of Corneliu's Military Forces and next inline for the Presidency."

I'm sorry, but I am dumbfounded at this person's sheer stupidity.

I'm sorry, but I am dumbfounded at this person's sheer stupidity.

You don't watch Star Wars do you?

BTW: I'm dumbfounded at your stupidity.

You don't watch Star Wars do you?

BTW: I'm dumbfounded at your stupidity.

Right, let me explain this one to you. You (and Oliverry) quickly turn a lovely, well-written Cherry Cup RP thread into a 1-line auction e-penis bidding war.

You don't 'win' in these threads by strategically out-RPing your opponents, you 'win' by writing RPs that we can all enjoy, respond to and share in the merriment of. To shut you two up, my character swings an axe aimed at your fellow's knees. Aimed, mind you, which easily gives you the oppurtunity to get out of and do something else. But no, you chop my main character's arm off.

I'm not they type of guy to ignore attacks, but there was no way you could let my character out of that without a missing limb. So i change your badly-written attack and make it fun by using a toy lightsabre instead of a 'real' one. If you like, of course, I will completely ignore you uber jedi teh master powers and all characters associated with your nation so you no longer exist for me.

This is not about understanding Star Wars, this is about understanding roleplay.

Right, let me explain this one to you. You (and Oliverry) quickly turn a lovely, well-written Cherry Cup RP thread into a 1-line auction e-penis bidding war.

You don't 'win' in these threads by strategically out-RPing your opponents, you 'win' by writing RPs that we can all enjoy, respond to and share in the merriment of. To shut you two up, my character swings an axe aimed at your fellow's knees. Aimed, mind you, which easily gives you the oppurtunity to get out of and do something else. But no, you chop my main character's arm off.

I'm not they type of guy to ignore attacks, but there was no way you could let my character out of that without a missing limb. So i change your badly-written attack and make it fun by using a toy lightsabre instead of a 'real' one. If you like, of course, I will completely ignore you uber jedi teh master powers and all characters associated with your nation so you no longer exist for me.

This is not about understanding Star Wars, this is about understanding roleplay.

And your use of an ax and my lightsaber counter isn't an understanding RP? I know full well how to RP! I've been at this since December 2003. I know full well what to expect and I know of all the technologies out there. You however tried to ax off my leg and I used my lightsaber to lop off your dwarf's arm.

And for your Information, this is all Iansisle fault for betting his entire GDP on the tournament. As for a bidding war, that is 100% legal RPing. It is how you do a bidding war. You bid higher than your opponet. Something about that you don't understand?

As for chopping off your main character's arm, that is what you get for aiming an ax at my main character's knee. BTW: It was in self-defense that I chopped off his arm. I'm sure the docs will re-attach his arm or fit him with a prosthetic.

Let me break my obviously-too-complicated arguement down into smaller sentences for you, as you completely missed my point.

1) Time at NS is not proportional to RPing skill.

2) Trying to lop someone's limb off is not godmodding, actually stating that you've done it is.

3) No it is not 'all Iansisle's fault'

4) It's not 'illegal' RPing, it's poor RPing

5) As you claim to know so much about Star Wars, you'd probably know that a Jedi wouldn't just lop someone's limb off as a warning.

6) Your lightsabre attack on Haztarr is now officially ignored, and I'm off to do something else.

All right, all right: that's quite enough nonsense on both sides!

Starblaydia: Don't call Corneliu stupid. This is his first Cherry Cup and, as far as I know, his first sports rp overall. He's still learning the ropes. We should be explaining what he did wrong, not chastising.

Corneliu: You have to understand that we don't RP in sports to win, like a lot of NS. We do it to amuse ourselves and others by creating comical situations. For instance, when I bet the entire GNP of my country on a bunch of random numbers in one of TB's spreadsheets, it was with the intent of creating a comical situation like the one we had. Godmoding, when handled correctly, is an extremely popular way of doing this.
You just need to calm down, take a step back, and ask yourself "Will everyone enjoy reading this post as much as I enjoyed writing it? Does it create a lighthearted and funny situation?"

*puts hands on hips and looks matronly*

Starblaydia: Don't call Corneliu stupid. This is his first Cherry Cup and, as far as I know, his first sports rp overall. He's still learning the ropes. We should be explaining what he did wrong, not chastising.

I apologise to Corneliu for calling him stupid, as stupidity and ignorance are completely unrelated.

Let me break my obviously-too-complicated arguement down into smaller sentences for you, as you completely missed my point.

Don't insult my intelligence!

1) Time at NS is not proportional to RPing skill.

And I can half several people come in here to vouch for my RPing skills.

2) Trying to lop someone's limb off is not godmodding, actually stating that you've done it is.[/qoute]

No! What you stated is godmodding. A lightsaber isn't plastic by any stretches of the imagination. What you did was godmodding.

[quote]3) No it is not 'all Iansisle's fault'

He's the one that bet everything which precipited the bidding war between Oliverry and I. Cause and Effect.

4) It's not 'illegal' RPing, it's poor RPing

?

5) As you claim to know so much about Star Wars, you'd probably know that a Jedi wouldn't just lop someone's limb off as a warning.

Oh yea your right. I would've just toss him into the air and take his little ax away. Sorry but I don't beat around the bush and I never stated that my character was on the lightside of the force nor is he on the darkside either.

All right, all right: that's quite enough nonsense on both sides!

Starblaydia: Don't call Corneliu stupid. This is his first Cherry Cup and, as far as I know, his first sports rp overall. He's still learning the ropes. We should be explaining what he did wrong, not chastising.

Corneliu: You have to understand that we don't RP in sports to win, like a lot of NS. We do it to amuse ourselves and others by creating comical situations. For instance, when I bet the entire GNP of my country on a bunch of random numbers in one of TB's spreadsheets, it was with the intent of creating a comical situation like the one we had. Godmoding, when handled correctly, is an extremely popular way of doing this.
You just need to calm down, take a step back, and ask yourself "Will everyone enjoy reading this post as much as I enjoyed writing it? Does it create a lighthearted and funny situation?"

*puts hands on hips and looks matronly*

Apologies but I do take offense to when axes are involved and I will do all that is necessary to defend my character even if it means lopping off a limb or two.

And your right, this is really my first sports RP. It is for fun. I'm just to used to the other threads that it gets to be habit to do something a certain way.

I apologise to Corneliu for calling him stupid, as stupidity and ignorance are completely unrelated.

And I apologize for everything I've just said in my response post before I saw this apology.

I shall delete some of it.

Apologies but I do take offense to when axes are involved and I will do all that is necessary to defend my character even if it means lopping off a limb or two

Apology accepted. You don't need to delete stuff. Step away from the axe-swing, force-push him into the bush, maybe even lop the head of the axe off. Just don't irreperably damage him like you originally planned to.

EDIT: Never mind :D

Apology accepted. You don't need to delete stuff. Step away from the axe-swing, force-push him into the bush, maybe even lop the head of the axe off. Just don't irreperably damage him like you originally planned to.

Did actually since my blade did make contact. I'll have my own personal doctor reattach it with no nerve, muscle, or tissue damage either.

Ok, let's rebirth this thread :D

To permit to some nations to not being penalized, the OHA has a new ranking idea. This ranking idea will award RPing nations. It will also award those who get good performances in the cup.

It will work in a system of point. Here's how it will work:

In the performance part, here's how it works:

The champion is getting 14 points
The runner-up, 13
The 3rd and 4th are getting 10
The 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th, 8
The 9th, 10th, 11th and 12th, 6
The 13th, 14th, 15th, 16th, 4
From 17th to 23rd, 2 points are awarded
And from 24th to last, 1 point

Like I wrote upper, RP is also awarded.

The number of logical RP's with, atleast, 500 characters per Cherry Cup will give you some points for this ranking. Those points, are, logically, independant from the cup's RP system. There is a maximum of 1 RP counted per game. Here's the system:

1 RP per game played or more: 2 points
1 RP per 2 games played or more: 1,4 points
1 RP per 3 game played or more: 1 point
1 RP per 5 games played or more: 0,6 point
1 RP in the cup or more: 0,2 point
No RP in the cup: 0 point

Next, how far away the cup is will also depend on the rankings. For example: the points accumulated 2 cups ago will be worth less than points accumulated in last cup.

This ranking will go back until 3 cups. Each has his own multiplying value. Here they are:

Last cup's points are worth 1x
2 cups ago's points are worth 0,5x
3 cups ago's points are worth 0,25x

After, everything is added and the rankings are created

What do you think?

Personally, I'm against ranking the sides, and I'm against RP bonus'.

I dropped out of the WC in large part because of the constant, onging, argument about the RP bonus and the ranking system. While it "protects" those who've been playing for a while, it works to the great detriment of those who are new, and/or who have had to drop out and then come back.

No ranking and no RP bonus leaves everyone on an even field, and the RPs are supposed to be for fun.

If we get heavily into rankings and RP bonus', I'll be done.

VERY ANGRY RABBITS - SNUB NOSE 38 - LITTLE MISS MUFFET - MARGARETISM - FALACIOUS STATEMENTS - STUBBY

If we get heavily into rankings and RP bonus', I'll be done.

Note that with no RP bonus and no ranks, I was done with this one. Ah well. Different strokes for different folks.

Leave it how it is. If you give points for Rps there'll be less creativity put into them because someone is so competitive about winning, they'll rush to get a rp in if they fear the next scores'll be posted. And also where will the cinderella stories go if there is a bonus for long-playing nations.

Well, it wouldn't be a Cherry Cup debate if Iansisle didn't decide to throw in his two cents (and yes, TB, I had a pun on the tip of my tongue, but I've come to sense that you don't appreciate them as much as I do. Heh.).

Myself, I'm in favor of a basic ranking system, be it completely based on the last Cherry Cup played or maybe even the previous two. There should be a reward for people who keep coming back to play, and I don't feel that ranks upset the balance of power for newer players too much.

On the other hand, I'm completely against an RP bonus of any sort. That would only penalize the more casual players here, such as Tanah Burung and Kalaallit Nunaat, who only have time for a post every now and then. However, I'm sure that everyone would agree that TB and KN are two of the foundations upon which the Cherry Cup is built - their posts are so consistently witty and entertaining that they should have the exact same chance as some person who spews out cut-and-paste newspaper articles after every match.

Hockey Canada actually summed it up for me in one of her posts, perhaps the only time I'll ever agree with her :

The Mushroom Kingship: Absolutely no posts this whole tournement and advancing in 1st place, proof that dice can screw teams like Starblaydia and Robotopolis and give clueless Mushrooms a championship.

Other than signing up the Mushroom Kingshop has demonstrated precisely zero interest/involvement in the Cherry Cup, and with no ranks and no bonuses they are looking favourites to win the thing. This is obviously a great step forward in NS sports, and should be applauded.

Same opinion as Iansisle, who is far too modest to include himself among the wonderful but sometimes sporadic writers in this group.

Like i said over on the main thread, the problem i saw in what was otherwise a wonderful tournament this time, was the fact that almost all of those likely to write fun role-plays were eliminated in stage one. It was going along wonderfully, and now it's mostly just VAR posting the scores. I don't much care if i go from the top ranked (or rankbed) to almost the worst, since utter inconsistency is now the main feature of my team (whee!) but i'd have posted more if i hadn't been nearly eliminated by the time i had a few minutes to read the thread. Chicanada suggested (and implemented) a system where no matter how well you did, you kept playing until near the end. I didn't actually understand the system, but i thought that was a great innovation.

Yes and ive sledged them oh so much!

It is unfair ive tried to rp abit and i can do it for fun or be serious.

Harlesburg supports an RP bonus.

Other than signing up the Mushroom Kingshop has demonstrated precisely zero interest/involvement in the Cherry Cup, and with no ranks and no bonuses they are looking favourites to win the thing.

Don't think anyone can be favored when all results are random, eh?

Same opinion as Iansisle, who is far too modest to include himself among the wonderful but sometimes sporadic writers in this group.

Like i said over on the main thread, the problem i saw in what was otherwise a wonderful tournament this time, was the fact that almost all of those likely to write fun role-plays were eliminated in stage one. It was going along wonderfully, and now it's mostly just VAR posting the scores. I don't much care if i go from the top ranked (or rankbed) to almost the worst, since utter inconsistency is now the main feature of my team (whee!) but i'd have posted more if i hadn't been nearly eliminated by the time i had a few minutes to read the thread. Chicanada suggested (and implemented) a system where no matter how well you did, you kept playing until near the end. I didn't actually understand the system, but i thought that was a great innovation.
ranbked- ithink its that.

He speaks the truth the RPers disapeared in the Divisional round.

two CC ago was excellent with its knock out system.

Same opinion as Iansisle, who is far too modest to include himself among the wonderful but sometimes sporadic writers in this group.

Like i said over on the main thread, the problem i saw in what was otherwise a wonderful tournament this time, was the fact that almost all of those likely to write fun role-plays were eliminated in stage one. It was going along wonderfully, and now it's mostly just VAR posting the scores. I don't much care if i go from the top ranked (or rankbed) to almost the worst, since utter inconsistency is now the main feature of my team (whee!) but i'd have posted more if i hadn't been nearly eliminated by the time i had a few minutes to read the thread. Chicanada suggested (and implemented) a system where no matter how well you did, you kept playing until near the end. I didn't actually understand the system, but i thought that was a great innovation.I knew this was going to be a problem - and I agree that it is. Thirty-three participants...I couldn't figure out any other way do 33 then split into three division of 11 each. I suppose more from each of the three divisions could have moved on - but I also had an external time limit imposed on me by RL - I've got a big inspection at work next week, which is going to severly limit my online time, and the following week I won't be able to get to a PC.

Well - everyone is entitled to an opinion. That's what this is all about, and I'm glad that everyone is saying their piece. It's the trying to get to a happy medium that keeps the most folks the most pleased that's difficult.

CC XIV will be over in about 3 days - sooner, if folks want it to be - all the results have been generated - and then we can move on to XV and however whoever wants to run it.

I didn't RP to begin with because I didn't like the fact that dice were being used. I've spent a helluva lot of time building up the myth that Dwarves are actually good at this frozen game.

So, unable to come up with something, I didn't bother RPing, and when I was knocked out - after a long and drawn out set of dice rolls by VAR over the various matchdays - there wasn't much point, as I didn't class that as fun.

I didn't RP to begin with because I didn't like the fact that dice were being used. I've spent a helluva lot of time building up the myth that Dwarves are actually good at this frozen game.

So, unable to come up with something, I didn't bother RPing, and when I was knocked out - after a long and drawn out set of dice rolls by VAR over the various matchdays - there wasn't much point, as I didn't class that as fun.

A shame.

Me? Didn't RP much because a) creativity block, and b) WC Qualifying group actually contained OTHER RPERS!!!!! leading to more effort going into these RPs.

cc15 sign-ups at http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=432430

I've spent a helluva lot of time building up the myth that Dwarves are actually good at this frozen game.


To me, the value of a ranking system, when writing RPs, is that it allows the writer to have some consistency of results. Not so much that it allows certain "teams" (I put that in quotes to remind us that they're just pretend, after all) to become dominant, but because as a writer I like to have some inkling of whether my "team" is performing well or poorly. It makes it a lot harder to say whether a result was a good one if you have no idea of the relative strength of the two sides, and it makes it more difficult to develop a history to a club if they win it all one time and finish last the next (not to pick on the results of this tournament, that's just an example that happens to match what occurred).

The point is, I guess, that I had a good time RPing over in the football WC #23 thread, where the apes were clobbered consistently by the best teams in thir group and split their matches against the weaker teams. It was internally consistent. I was able to develop a sensible storyline around it. Had the apes won against the top-ranked sides in the group, it would have been hard to explain logically (and yes, I go for logical consistency in my RPs even though they're about talking apes).

Ranking systems in pretend sports can easily lead to entrenched teams that consistent win, or lose, and I think that may be part of what VAR is objecting to. There are examples of that in the WC, where there is an RP bonus, and some people who don't RP much still do well based on their teams' long-established rankings. Various people have objected to RP bonuses as rewarding the wrong thing (ie, volume over quality), which is a valid point, or on the grounds that RPing should be for fun, not for profit (not a bad point, either).

Perhaps someone who's been around for a while can remember whether the RP bonus in the WC was originally set up to help ensure that the better RPers-- the more fun players in the tournament-- would last longer in the tourney; it may have had something to do with a major RPer getting eliminated from the qualifiers, and this may also have been the origin of the Cup of Harmony invitational?

Whether the RP bonus in the WC still works to keep the "best" (and I use quotes here to indicate that best in an entirely subjective opinion regarding which each person will have her or his own opinion) players in the tournament until the last rounds, is debatable. As Iansisle points out, there's a lot of cookie-cutter newspaper posting (and I hope he doens't include me in that, though maybe he does, since my posts are frequently in a headline/byline format and include a match summary along with, usually, a little silliness).

I will end this gentle rant with two thoughts. First, I signed up for CC14 hoping for a fun, freeform tournament with a lot of silliness. To some degree, I got that, though I honestly found it somewhat hard to RP when the apes won several matches in a row. I had set them up as not even knowing how to freeze large amounts of water, let alone how to skate, and it threw me when they started winning. So a ranking system might have helped get a few more RPs out of me, in tht case.

Second, the most highly RPed tournament I've seen on a per-capita basis is this one currently being hosted by Trotsgrad (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=429109). For no reason that I can see, virtually every participant has RPed several matches (and with only 5 matches in the main round, that's saying something). Several of the players are WC vets, but some of them have practically no posts ouside this one tournament. Perhaps there's something going on here that other tournament hosts should look at... whatever Trotsgrad is doing, it's working remarkably well. Note that that tourney is strictly a friendly, with no rankings, no RP bonuses, no nothing. Go figure. But it's been fun.

The Trotsgrad one is a good point, as I took a 'logical' approach to that. If I sent the full Starblaydia team in, they should have - by all rights - kicked everyone's ass and met probably the Cockbill Street team in the finals. So, I sent in the previously unused Under-19s team who had no history of their own, so decided to crate some.

Having Trostgrad pick my scorers was initially annoying, but it has set up two or three glittering careers for the future in just 5 matches.

I honestly found it somewhat hard to RP when the apes won several matches in a row.

I had precisely the same problem in CC5, where I set my team up as people who didn't know how to skate, then they promptly won 9 matches in a row from the very beginning, going on to win the entire tournament.


With no ranks or such, you have no idea whether you can beat someone or not. There's no concept of 'good' or 'bad' teams, just wins and losses, which doesnt help (my) RPs either.

Having Trostgrad pick my scorers was initially annoying, but it has set up two or three glittering careers for the future in just 5 matches.

In my case, half the apes' goals have been assigned to my lone male offensive player, which tends to go against the apes' matriarchal society of dominant, generally larger females. However, it does create an instant star in an under-recognized player, and as I've toyed around with male-rights activists in the WC thread, and will likely develop that someday (Revolution in RBA?!... who knows?), it works out fine.

I think that what's made Trotsgrad work is that everyone's approached it with an open-minded, "I'm just RPing this for fun, so what the hell?" attitude. Which is just what I think VAR is arguing for here. However, with a regularly-occurring tournament, it's a lot harder for people to do that. So maybe the success of the Trotsgrad tourney is attributable to the fact that it's a one-off.

Maybe that's what we need around here (here being NS): rankings in the regular tourneys, but more one-offs for freeform fun.

Perhaps someone who's been around for a while can remember whether the RP bonus in the WC was originally set up to help ensure that the better RPers-- the more fun players in the tournament-- would last longer in the tourney; it may have had something to do with a major RPer getting eliminated from the qualifiers, and this may also have been the origin of the Cup of Harmony invitational?

Without being too coy, i believe this was indeed the case, but that the RP'er eliminated back then may have changed his mind in the period since then. But, point well taken, my simian friend. My memory is hazy on the details of who demanded the RP bonus first. Possibly it was me. It was certainly the reason i held the first Cup of Harmony, or Frosty Invitational as it was then known, for teams that didn't make the World Cup but did RP. That was the first tournament i know of that used an RP bonus.

New tournaments and one-offs draw nice new energy. More established ones risk bogging down in debate over how to run the tournament. One of the strengths of the Cherry Cup, i'd say, is that it is very free-form. The World Cup created a very impressive structured universe, but also a lot of arguing. In retrospect, the RP bonus in the World Cup was not the panacea some of us hoped it would be. Given that we don't actually have qualifiers here, i'm still inclined to think that it's better to keep the ranks but not try to create an RP bonus system.

As Iansisle points out, there's a lot of cookie-cutter newspaper posting (and I hope he doens't include me in that, though maybe he does, since my posts are frequently in a headline/byline format and include a match summary along with, usually, a little silliness).

I most certainly do not! In fact, there are very few people (none, perhaps) in the Cherry Cup who fit the stereotype I referenced. Most of those sorts were from my experience in the World Cup (which, while I do miss the good times, especially in the post-qualifiers, I am not sorry I left), when someone would essentially post the same article over and over again with minor changes to the name of the goal scorers.

Anyway, I've retracted my hardline stance from back in Cherry Cup V. While I'm not in FAVOR of dice, I don't mind their use so much. So long as the host is dedicated and willing to have a bit of fun with the thing, I'll tolerate dice. What I prefer is the Belmore Family's spreadsheet, which figures in ranks for you; however, the ranks are not end-all be-all. Examples are Frozcheva and Fimble loving peoples, both of them rookies, who finished at or near the top of their groups and made good playoff runs in Cherry Cup 8.

Well, I'm basically just rambling now. TB, for every bit I'm humble, you're far too kind to me. :P Play on, everyone.

I personally loved the Trotsgrad Tourny while i was in it.
A loss to Star effectivly Knocked me out.
*Shakes Fist*

A good example of the importence of the RP in the WC isme
In my previous 2 attempts at qualifiying i won 1 game in WC22Q and i didnt Rp
while in 23 i Rp almost every game and i made the actual WC.

Rping should make the Pedigree of a Team and a continuation of this is its History.
I dont mind long standing Nations being supperior to me heck your not going to see New Zealand or Australia or Poland win the World Cup anytime soon why because they havent established themselves at that level where as the Germany's,Brazil's and France's(and England) have shown a cosistency since 1908 or whatever so why should i as a 3 time WCer be of equal value to someone thats participated in 17,18 or all 23 Cups?

Overtime i very well may come into a position to start hurting them for their lazyness but you couldnt expect Nation ranked 117th to beat Nation ranked 4th in 4 World Cups cosistently could you.

Good things take time.

I personally loved the Trotsgrad Tourny while i was in it.
A loss to Star effectivly Knocked me out.
*Shakes Fist*

arf arf arf. I didn't make it either, though, and the match against you was my Under-19s only win :D

A good example of the importence of the RP in the WC isme
In my previous 2 attempts at qualifiying i won 1 game in WC22Q and i didnt Rp
while in 23 i Rp almost every game and i made the actual WC.

That's abolsute crap, if you don't mind me saying. RPing does not, and never has, equalled wins. Let me say that again, with a little emphasis.

RPing does not, and never has, equalled wins.

I RPd my ass off in World Cup 15 and 16 and didn't qualify, then continued to RP my ass off in World Cup 17 and I made it. But taking part in the qualifiers you gain ranking points until you get to a stage where, with a bit of luck, you can qualify for the Cup itself, which is exactly what you did. RP Bonus provides a temporary (and minor) boost to your rank, and the Bonus 'encourages' people to RP. The downside is forumlaic, boring, skip-it-and-move-on RPs from some members of the community, but that can't be helped. Witness in CC14 where there was no RP bonus and some people still trotted out the same old newspaper report-style RPs.



Anyway, I think that if a host of the CC can say well before the thing starts that 'we will be using Ranks/No ranks, RP Bonus/No RP Bonus, Dice/Spreadsheets/Leagion or whatever, it allows for competitors to adjust their style of RPs accordingly. When Trotsgrad posted how he was going to score the matches, I adjusted my style to send an unknown team to a place where they would perform randomly. It worked, too, from a story-consistency angle.

...the RP'er eliminated back then may have changed his mind in the period since then.

Fair enough. I was just trying to point out that the original intent behind RP bonuses may have been more altruistic than selfish.

Anyway, I think that if a host of the CC can say well before the thing starts that 'we will be using Ranks/No ranks, RP Bonus/No RP Bonus, Dice/Spreadsheets/Leagion or whatever, it allows for competitors to adjust their style of RPs accordingly. When Trotsgrad posted how he was going to score the matches, I adjusted my style to send an unknown team to a place where they would perform randomly. It worked, too, from a story-consistency angle.

Good point. And if I'd been paying more attention, I probably would have allowed for more random results in my initial RPs.

Here's an interesting concept, which I offer for use - or not - your choice. Create your RPs after the results of games are posted. Let the free flow of the results provide the direction of each RP.

Here, originally, followed a rather lengthy couple of paragraphs that, upon edit before publication, have been replaced by:

Perhaps someone who's been around for a while can remember whether the RP bonus in the WC was originally set up to help ensure that the better RPers-- the more fun players in the tournament-- would last longer in the tourney; it may have had something to do with a major RPer getting eliminated from the qualifiers, and this may also have been the origin of the Cup of Harmony invitational?I was around then - Had been participating in World Cups since WC3 as Snub Nose 38 until I stopped around 19,20 or 21 - can't remember exactly.

The RP bonus was originally created to encourage participants to RP - we found that more folks than not signed up, and then just read the results and moved on. We wanted more people to do some creative RPing, so we came up with the RP bonus - which was initially supposed to be small, just to encourage people to put something into the mix. It helps, in these things, to have something to respond to, ya know?

As for ranking - originally there was none in WC. Then, in one of the early cups, we started ranking based ONLY on the performance of the last cup. And then Kaze Progressa invented a ranking system that included several prior cups - which was to some degree edited by Bedistan, I think - and we wound up with a system that I did not like that made it very difficult for anyone who hadn't participated in quite a number of cups to get anywhere. Newbies were basically being told "Plan on losing miserably for about 3 to 6 interations of the World Cup, and if you hang around and put up with that, then you might get up high enough in the rankings to actually have a chance."

And the RP bonus never got really "settled" - constant arguments existed (and I think still do, but you'd have to ask someone who is currently participating in WCs) over how much weight the RP bonus should have, and whether it should be based on quantity (number of RPs, or number of words in the RPs) or quality as "defined" by whoever was hosting and therefore "grading" the RPs.

And (and I apologize for tooting my own horn here) before you decide that I'm against the RP bonus because I wasn't RPing, or wasn't providing quality RPs - go read some of the Snub Nose 38 RPs - or ask someone who was around when I was playing. SN38 RPed more than most, and I think folks enjoyed reading the stuff I posted.

I just think the rankings do a real dis-service to newbies who want to play, and the RP bonus' are just too hard to work with and keep everyone happy. Easier to remember this is all a game within a game, RP because you like to or don't RP and who cares, and the results - well, do you REALLY care that much if your make believe team from your make believe nation wins or loses?

And that is all I'm gonna say (as if it weren't enough, eh? ;) )

Last (ha!) comment - this thread, created by KN to move the discussions about the game out of the thread containing the game itself, is becoming a replica of the World Cup Discussion thread - created by KP to move the discussions about the game out of the threads containing the game itself.

It's really rather eerie and deja vu-ish.

That was the goal I think. It was started because of my hosting in CC9 where Iansisle and Vilita feuded together because I won.

Anyway, some precisions about my rankings: it was done principally because some teams were good in the past, but subitedly, it has become bad. So, it can help such teams a bit. Anyway, you still earn more points for participating in the cup than for RP'ing, so it doesn't matter. Also, If you're bad and you RP consistently, you can upgrade your rank by enough to be good. It will, sure, help those who participated before, but, like in CC9, there can be surprises(Robotopolis finishing 4th while not being ranked at all).

GASP!!
Moose is not winning the poll! Moose always wins the poll! Someone must eliminate Squirrel. Boris, eliminate Squirrel.

Here's an interesting concept, which I offer for use - or not - your choice. Create your RPs after the results of games are posted. Let the free flow of the results provide the direction of each RP.


Yeah, well, I do that... and my point is that it makes it harder for some of us when each RP has to go in a different direction because the results aren't consistent. But obviously not everyone feels that way.

And just to point out... I wasn't advocating for or against an RP bonus. Just trying to point out that there are myriad reasons for one, just as there are myriad reasons not to have one (I specified a couple of them earlier).

Finally, I woudn't want to imply that cc14 wasn't good. It ran like clockwork and the host did a good job RPing the host nation and venues, which is important and which some hosts neglect. I just personally had trouble reconciling the dice-driven results with my RPs. I happen to be a person who writes long, involved storylines (my WC23 storyline is still going on although the apes were elminated last week) and those arcs are easier to construct when match results are at least somehwat predictable (though I would absolutely not want to be able to say in advance how things were going to turn out). So for me, that was a difficulty in this tournament. Each tournament is different, and I'll keep entering a pretend team in the CC whether future hosts use dice, spreadsheets, rankings, RP bonuses, or whatever.

Fair enough. I was just trying to point out that the original intent behind RP bonuses may have been more altruistic than selfish.

Oh yes, absotively. Sorry if i gave a different interpretation.

arf arf arf. I didn't make it either, though, and the match against you was my Under-19s only win :D



That's abolsute crap, if you don't mind me saying. RPing does not, and never has, equalled wins. Let me say that again, with a little emphasis.

RPing does not, and never has, equalled wins.
-snip-
Ok ill belive you but how does me with a 3.6 ranking beat a 44+ranking?
Thats just scary.

SN38!? ...

Moose must win... eliminate Squirrel...

Ok I'll believe you but how do I, with a 3.6 ranking, beat a 44+ ranking?

Gimme an 'L'! Gimme a 'U'! Gimme a 'C'! Gimme a 'K'!

What's that spell?

Moose!

Gimme an 'L'! Gimme a 'U'! Gimme a 'C'! Gimme a 'K'!

What's that spell?

Moose!
I am unfamiliar with this Term 'LUCK'??? what does it mean and how do i aquire more? :p

I am unfamiliar with this Term 'LUCK'??? what does it mean and how do i aquire more? :pWhat!? You have plenty of luck! All of it bad, of course...;)

This last Cherry Cup was like the de-evolution. How dice could screw over defending champs Tanah Burung and lead The Mushroom Kingship (who had a total post count of 0 and still doesn't know he's even won) to it's 1st win in it's 2nd cup. I've been around since CC8 and haven't even been to the semis while I see dice help TMK to go through. Starblaydia and Iansisle didn't advance past the 1st round? Something was wrong there. Dice hasn't been used since around Cherry Cup 4, and spreadsheets weren't used since since around 7. Leagion hasn't been used since CC12 and CPU-generated scores hasn't been used since CC13. Things just got knocked back to the stone age.

Dice:Cherry Cup 1
Cherry Cup 2
Cherry Cup 3
Cherry Cup 4


Spreadsheet:Cherry Cup 5
Cherry Cup 6
Cherry Cup 7

Leagion: Cherry Cup 8
Cherry Cup 9
Cherry Cup 10
Cherry Cup 11
Cherry Cup 12

Computer Generated: Cherry Cup 13

Dice: Cherry Cup 14

Has the Cherry Cup reached it's peak here? We all hope not. Personally, to get people involved, I think we should institute an RP-bonus so nations actually know they're in the cup and they know they won the Cherry Cup. You can practically destroy the Cherry Cup, but there will always be fans of hockey to keep the tradition going and to keep this a top-notch tournement.

Hello, Pot...Kettle here...

p.s. if you have to ask...don't.

I hope the winning bid does NOT use dice in Cherry Cup XV. That will get you laughed out of the World Cup if you try to bid with dice as your score generation method.

I oppose an RP bonus. It really is stupid and really leaves new teams behind. It'll render Cherry Cup useless and if an RP bonus is applied, Corneliu will leave Cherry Cup till its abolished.

As for Dice, it is really fair to use them instead of computer programs.

I thought the use of dice was funny (no matter how much I was robbed by it) but I would never use it in my bid since (a) I don't want to and (b) I love Leagion (yeah yeah yeah low scores).

As for an rp bonus...I can't fairly judge a role play as good or bad and just setting a word limit is pointless becasue all you then do is filler (i.e. what I did in all the CoHs I've done). I don't see any reason why rp-ing must be so important. Isn't this supposed to be a more fun version of the WC? Hell, we could always have a Cherry Cup for fun and randomness and a more formal World Championships like Canad a was sorta planning before LE squashed their dreams ;) that could be all Rp-based and orderly.

Of course I'm just blabbing around.

I oppose an RP bonus. It really is stupid and really leaves new teams behind. It'll render Cherry Cup useless and if an RP bonus is applied, Corneliu will leave Cherry Cup till its abolished.

As for Dice, it is really fair to use them instead of computer programs.

Actually, it's ranks that leave new teams behind, RP bonuses are designed to leave behind the people who don't participate in the fun and frolics.

Dice is fair on everyone equally, which is great unless someone like Mushroom Kingthingamies wins, as they have done precisely nothing to contribute to our fun, and they've won the thing.

I hope the winning bid does NOT use dice in Cherry Cup XV. That will get you laughed out of the World Cup if you try to bid with dice as your score generation method.Point 1: I'm just a little over-tired right now. Did not sleep well last night. Keep that in mind as you read this. NOTHING here is intended to insult anyone.

Point 2: If there is NO ranking (and there was none), and NO RP Bonus (and there was none) - if there is NO other factor that has an effect on the random numbers generated as scores in these make-believe games (and there was none), then it does not matter whether you use dice, or a $2000 computer and a $50 program to generate random numbers - as long as the choosen method is truly random, and is used in the correct manner.

Point 3: I'm pretty tired of the kind of thinking represented here. I have a Masters Degree that's probably as old as some, if not most, of you - and I earned it while working full time as a Financial Manager and holding down a part time job as well, while raising 4 kids. I've attended 5 different colleges/universites - starting with the United States Military Academy at West Point. I have a genius level IQ. I'm a member of Mensa. This, please remember, is a game. I chose to use dice. I find it more fun. If you don't, then you don't - but that, my friend, is about YOU, not about me.

edit: I wrote my first computer program (using flow charts, punch cards, and fortran) in 1969 - which is, I think, before most of you were born.

Point 4: Please think for a minute about what you are arguing about - how to generate random number scores for make-believe games within a make-believe tournament between make-believe countries in a computer/role playing game.

Point 5: That you may laugh is somehow supposed to disuade me? Look carefully at the bulk of my RPs. They are all intended to generate laughter. That is also, by the way, one of the reasons I selected dice - it's funny using dice to generate random numbers for a game on a computer. Think about it.

Point 6: I'm already out of the WC, by choice, remember?

Final Point: Guess who won't be bidding to host any more tournaments in NS? Since the difficulty level of this question is relatively low, there will be no prize for a correct answer.

Dice is fair on everyone equally, which is great unless someone like Mushroom Kingthingamies wins, as they have done precisely nothing to contribute to our fun, and they've won the thing. What did they win? Why is it important if they won? It doesn't matter who wins - it matters who had fun playing the game. Life is not about the destination - it's about the journey.

apologies to both Sarzonia and Starblaydia for attributing to one what was written by the other. fixed, now

That will get you laughed out of the World Cup if you try to bid with dice as your score generation method.

Then thank God I don't play in the World Cup anymore. Dogmaticism = bad.

Oh, and HC: I know for a fact that Cherry Cups VIII and XII used a spreadsheet. I don't even really know what Leagion is, much less how to use it. :D

That will get you laughed out of the World Cup if you try to bid with dice as your score generation method.

Isn't that really irrelevant? This isn't the World Cup, and I think that's the point. Personally, I signed up for the Cherry Cup because someone told me it was more relaxed than the WC. Now, I realize that I've contributed several posts to this conversation thread, but I've tried hard to avoid complaining (though I feel it's only fair to give my opinions). And I've certainly read a lot of complaining since Oliverry resurrected this thread.

Can we please just end the whining? A number of us have said that while we may prefer one method or the other, we'll accept whatever method the host selects and play along with it. Let's not make this a mirror image of the WC, with hard-and-fast rules for how it has to be run. Hurray for variety, okay?

What did they win? Why is it important if they won? It doesn't matter who wins - it matters who had fun playing the game. Life is not about the destination - it's about the journey.

apologies to both Sarzonia and Starblaydia for attributing to one what was written by the other. fixed, now

The ability to construct a more fun journey for the rest of us when we play them. Oh wait, they haven't, never mind :p

And no probs, as I didn't even see it :D

I have no idea what Cherry Cup i hosted, but scores were generated manually using a random number generator, not by spread sheet or leagion, whatever that is. I do remember that Cup was fun to host in some ways, but had rather an annoyingly large amount of whining (plus one very nicely-worded telegram about possibly ignoring the results in-character, to which i had not objections). I'm afraid that's the price of hosting anything these days, and VAR gets my thanks for being willing to do it.

My two cents:

The Cherry Cup is about the participation. We have fun, we create humorous characters, and the scores rarely matter. However, I think it's better for the Cup if those who RP more have more chance to participate. So, how about a small, yes/no RP bonus, and a not-quite-but close-to-random scorinator?

Hey, If you have a 7-piece dice set, you could even factor these in...if you know how.

Well I'm sorry to hear that SN38.

RP bonus = good, Corneliu.

EVERYONE NEEDS TO STOP THIS NONSENSE BEFORE IT ESCALATES INTO WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE WORLD CUP, NOW.

Since when is rational discussion about the way to play a game nonsense, LE? I don't see any personal insults or excessive loudness/caps/boldness/enlarged text being flung about (until your post).

We can all agree to disagree on this one, it is the Cherry Cup, after all. It changes from one Cup to the next . As long as the host can tell us exactly what we're getting in advance of the Cup starting, there shouldnt be too many problems.

I have to admit, it would have been nice if the winner of the tournament at least posted an RP about the final game.

But we can't have everything.

And Druida stepped in and filled the void nicely, I think. Thanks, D. :)

time to bump this thread :P

Anyway, I've done rankings to be used in CC18. Here they are:

http://img43.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cc17finalrankings2mj.jpg

I will explain how they were calculated later

I'd like to know how they're calculated before I have them thrust upon me ( :p ), and if we're to use the same system maybe have some options to look at.

ok...

Per game played in the preliminary round:

base:
Win: 2 points
Tie: 1 point
Loss: 0 point

Modifiers:
Win: 0.05 point per rank
Ex: The winning team is ranked 10th and the losing team in ranked 8th. The winning team will get 2.1 point.
Loss: 0.025 point per rank
Ex: same as before. The losing team will get -0.05
Tie: Same case as a win

After, each games are added and divided by 12, which is the max number of game you can play without playoffs(actually, it's 11 but I added the playoff part as a 12th game). Plus, we add the number of point of the last cup divided by 2

Just out of curiosity when is the Cherry Cup 18 sign up thread going to come considering Cherry Cup 17 is almost over.

KN usually starts the thread, so probably when he realizes that this one is over and comes to check.

Remember me for the next one aye?