NationStates Jolt Archive

A quote from a travel brochure...

Chateau Chantouillet

Chantouillet is a picturesque palace in the Pantocratorian countryside built in the late baroque style by Emperor Louis I in the early 19th century. It was a place to which the Imperial Court could retreat to escape the bustle of New Rome. Its grounds are vast and provide excellent hunting, which made it a particular favourite for Louis...

A troop of the Sixth Provincial Legion in full dress uniform flanked either side of the Imperial Chancellor, Dr Thibault Drapeur, as he stood ready to receive the Knootian and Tanah Burungi delegations. He had hesitations about whether the negotiations would be successful; the Knootians didn't seem interested in negotiating, and Alkatiri wasn't exactly negotiating from a position of strength. Still, peace and security through diplomatic engagement rather than military adventurism had been a key part of the Pantocratorian Socialist Alliance's election platform, and he was determined to prove that the policy was a sound one.

Violeta Bi Bere arrived by car, a young man with her carrying her suitcase and a spare oxygen tank, in case she took ill. Along with her was Alvaro Pinto, newly appointed as Tanah Burung's first ambassador to Pantocratoria. The old woman herself carried only cane, which she leaned on slightly. But she had slept on the flight, and so was well rested. She only hoped there would be someone to negotiate with. In the meantime, the wooded grounds of Chateau Chantouillet were restful enough.

But there was the Chancellor, or so she imagined. At any rate, he looked the part: comfortable enough with trappings of Imperial office for a newcomer to power who, she imagined, had taken some grief for preaching socialism in a society still more than a little respectful of its aristocracy. She stepped out of the car, arms stretched wide.

"Dear Chancellor, it's such a joy to meet you," she exclaimed brightly as she walked, as quickly as 90-year old legs permiited, in his direction. "What an honour you do us with this magnificent setting!"

Arriving shortly after Bi Bere was Minister Hans van Mierlo, along with two of his closest assistants from the ministry of Foreign affairs and Defence. They entered when Thibault Drapeur and Bi Bere were still exchanging pleasantries,

Hans van Mierlo made quite an impression on Bi Bere. The last time they had met face to face had been <quite a long time in the multiverse> ago. Then he had already been an old man but one that still kept going with youthful vigour. An old man, perhaps, but still with the charm of a schoolboy tempered by experience – something he had quite often used to his political advantage. Now, the changes were startling and it seemed as if he needed the walking stick more badly then Bi Bere. His hair had thinned considerably and his footsteps were less confident, more tentative. Small black rings under his eyes make her wonder if he had had much sleep.

The charming grin he attempted to cast upon recognising the old woman seemed more one of pain but still he managed a small bow for Drapeur.

“Chancellor, I presume”

“Madam Bi Bere” - his voice was slightly warmer but also unsure, not sure what to expect from the old woman whom (last time they had spoken directly) had been such a good contact. Now, of course, things were completely different.

His entourage followed suit.

They've sent me geriatrics! thought the Chancellor to himself in silent horror.

"Madame Bi Bere, Monsieur van Mierlo, welcome to Chantouillet. I hope that these negotiations will bear fruit, and that you can come to a mutually satisfactory arrangement. Please, come in." said the Chancellor. "Are you both keen to begin talks, or would you like to be shown to your rooms to rest first?"

(ooc: no, my diplomat is more decrepit!)

With a twinkle in her eye that belied her age, Bi Bere looked up at the others. "I, for one, am quite ready to begin at once, my dear Doctor Drapeur," she answered. "Although i look forward to enjoying a stroll on these lovely grounds later on, perhaps."

She turned towards th Knootian foreign minister, who seemed somehow to be smaller and thinner than his photos. "On the other hand, if my old friend here would like a rest, then of course it shall be so. On this at least, i yield entirely to the will of van Mierlo." She giggled, which might, in European cultures, have seemed inappropriate to the setting, then continued to speak.

"You know, dear heart, i'm quite hopeful that we can make a new beginning here. If there is any way i can help your position with your government, please do let me know, and i shall do my utmost to oblige."

Drapeur led the two diplomats through the baroque foyer of Chantouillet, into a long hall, and then into the ballroom, converted into a negotiating room with a large round table. On one side stood a flagpole with the flag of the DDR, and on the other stood a flagpole with the flag of Tanah Burung.

"Please, take a seat, both of you." offered Drapeur. Servants rushed about with trays of water, juice, tea and coffee, offering drinks to the delegates.

The Knootian minister did not mind some laughter but the comment made by Bi Bere did surprise him. How much did she know?, he wondered. He had little time to stand still and think about it as their Pantocratorian host rushed them inside.

”All I want is for peace to come, not from arms but out of a justice done by unarmed nations. Even if it has to be in the face of whatever odds.” he replied perhaps somewhat cryptically as they went into the baroque foyer.

At the negotiating table he was seated, taking some orange juice and waiting for whatever it was the Pantocratorian would want to tell them.

"Monsieur, Madame," said Drapeur. "Thankyou so very much for accepting my invitation to Chantouillet. I dearly hope that this conference will be the beginning of the end of the conflict in Tanah Burung. I'd invite you now both to lay out your desired ground rules for these negotiations."

He sat back and waited for the picking over pre-conditions to begin.

"Easily done, dear heart," Bi Bere said. "I have no conditions or ground rules to lay out. For us, everything is on the table. My esteemed friend may have some difficulties in agreeing to real peace talks, as his government does not recognize mine, and that is why i have suggested these preliminary talks about talking. Perhaps the Minister could state any ground rules he wishes, and i shall do my utmost to meet any conditions he may have."

She gave a sweet smile. "In the meantime, i have brought a batik weaving for you, Minister, as a token of my people's esteem for you." She passed across a colourful textile, embroidered with a scene of birds being released from cages.

((OOC: <edit:rm original comment> Anyway, this conversation is taking place in… French? Or English?))
Hans accepted the batik weaving, admiring its design for a moment and noting its (perhaps not so subtle) meaning. "I thank you for this gift", he said bowing his head a little. He put it on the negotiating table inbetween them, making sure it was folded neatly as he did. Perhaps it would inspire them.

Then, he returned to the more grave concerns at hand. “... I hope what I am about to lay on the table will not be seen as ingratitude for your gift or our hosts gracious welcome but this will indeed have to be a 'talks talk' as I am bound to the demands of both my Prime Minister and the Staten-Generaal.

The Lady nos Círdan unfortunately cannot attend any talks where we are established as being an occupying party. It simply will not happen. I believe Madame Bi Bere is aware of our reasoning in that matter as much I am aware of her rebuke. This aside, a solution needs to be found that will respect the Ladies dignity and honour." He could think of a few less palatably synonyms for that last sentence, but to call it 'face' would be decidedly less regal and it only would be a sign of weakness.

"Related to this, Mari Altakiris membership of the Rumbiak Brigade means that the Lady will not be likely to meet with him, personally, at any rate.”

OOC: So that's why I was confused. I have posted a bunch of really dumb things today. Have the conversation in whatever language is appropriate. Drapeur speaks English with a heavy but quite comprehensible French accent.

OOC: Its ok. I edited the above post too, btw, taking the opportunity to expand on it and insert appropriate comments. I thought it was quite an amusing misstake though if it had been IC :p

The Lady? A strange way to refer to the Prime Minister, Bi Bere thought. Never mind: it was a matter of no importance. Time for some of those concessions that Drapeur had asked for.

"Well, countries have signed agreements without their chief executives present before," she said. "We do not care about the dignity of men, and there is no need for Mr Alkatiri to be present for any talks. But Hans, darling, i can assure you that he is not a member of the Rumbiak Brigade.

"As to this question of the occupying power. The fact is, there are Knootian forces on the ground. However, as an expression of good will and to help your position, let us not haggle over words, over whose government is valid and who is an occupyiong power. Let's loook for new formulas that do not make words into obstacles."

“I agree”, van Mierlo said. “I might have a few suggestions myself but I don’t know if that would be imposing on the agenda our host?” The minister tilted his head in the direction of the Pantocratorian chancellor, smiling friendly: “My suggestions are not so much a full proposal, but more the ramblings of an old man who would like to settle this matter before his retirement.”

The smile let on that there was more behind the ‘simple old man’ façade.

She'd almost dozed off, into dreams of her schoolgirl days, so many years ago. Bi Bere jolted herself into full wakefulness as the old man across the table began to speak. Well, so, that all sounded promising enough. It was jsut as well she did not know the news from home, which was more worrying.

"Eendrakt maakt macht," she said with a wink. Cooperation gives power.

"By all means, feel free to interfere with my agenda." said Drapeur. "These negotiations are for the benefit of your countries, after all."

“Your knowledge of our old national creeds is truly admirable”, Hans complimented with a smile. “Then again, it was a good creed.” He smiled I believe your people have this proverb teaching us that people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones. Perhaps it is also appropriate here.” His thoughts seemed to linger on this for a moment before he continued. "Instead of clinging to old wordings and haggling over legal status I suggest we do not mention it again and look towards the future instead. Clean sheet, that was what you suggested in your message to the IMC if I recall.

The ‘international trial’ solution has been suggested a couple of times before and I believe that would be the best solution. Perhaps we can begin to agree here on some basics: time, place, whose jurisdiction this is done under and which country shall provide the judges. I understand it maybe a bit soon to start on such details, but they are important details and I think it would be a good point of departure.

Personally, I would prefer that a system akin to Knootian laws be used. At any rate, a developed system that has dealt with terrorist groups before. Tanah Burung laws would be looked upon as too permissive,” he sighed and then smiled. “Your enlightened system may have virtually eradicated crime but this matter will require a hand that punishes and does not just subdue. I can imagine you’d find Menelmacari law too harsh, so I would suggest we rule out countries which practice capital punishment. We would both have to trust involve nations which have firm but fair justice systems that will convict terrorists, even if it is merely based on the organisational membership itself.”

He took a sip from his drink. “My vision would be a process with simultaneous steps to create trust. In exchange for this first agreement I’m prepared to arrange for a phased withdrawal of Knootian forces from Tanah Burung in a matter of months. These remaining forces would have the task of rounding up Rumbiak Brigade members refusing to surrender. I imagine Bi Kikeres forces are not be up to the task and Rumbiak Brigade membership may be more extensive then your government knew at the moment of your departure.” Of course, keeping the troops there was also the perfect guarantee that the Burungi’s would keep their end of the bargain but this was a matter he did not touch.

“KDF experts suggested that regions can be isolated temporarily and then cleared out. This would be easiest with Tiga Burung because of it being an island obviously, but if we have your cooperation we could sweep the entire nation fairly quickly, or so I’ve been assured. Specialists from Tarasovka have been installing mining corridors which could be extended temporarily. If a region is swept we can withdraw and leave it entirely to your people.

During this transitory period the Government in exile could return to Tanah Burung to oversee day-to-day matters, provided of course that the resistance stops. However it would have to be absolutely out of the question that foreign forces would be invited in during that time or any other hostile steps undertaken…”

He paused, thinking the others might be struggling to keep up. “Well, I imagine that is a lot to process already.”

"You do seem to be prejudging guilt just a little, my dear man." Bi Bere smiled across at him, showing her teeth. "Let us say, countries that are willing to convict terrorists, shall we?"

She giggled again.

"Still, a good beginning. Let me suggest we try this as the basis of our informal and unofficial understanding:

"First, Knootian forces agree to a staged withdrawal from Tanah Burung, to be completed in no more than two months. As a token of good faith, they will evacuate one city immediately. I suggest the city of Matebian, which is far inland, away from your troops concentrations near the coast. The withdrawal would be monitored by an impartial party. Perhaps our host might agree to undertake this task?" As far as it was possible from a sitting position, she bowed towards Dr. Drapeur. "The government of Tanah Burung will undertake during this two-month period not to invite any new foreign forces into the country and will respect a cease fire as long as withdrawals continue.

"Second, members of the Rumbiak Brigade, identified as such and accused of membership in a terrorist organization, will be handed over to a neutral third party for trial. I suggest this will have to be under international law rather than the laws of any one country, however. As you say, our laws as they stand would not convict most Brigade members of any crime. Perhaps that would have been different had we had time to hold a referendum on outlawing the Brigade, but that is in the past. The Tanah Burung Defence Force already has several mebers of the Brigade in costody and can quickly detain others, once we know we are not faced with fighting Knootian forces.

"I am afraid, however, i cannot agree to any joint policing with your forces. You must understand, there are very few people in my country who trust Knootians, since your forces invaded." She paused. "Of course, i use the word invaded only in a descriptive capacity, it need not have the force of a judgement. At any rate, if Knootian forces continue to conduct any military operation of any sort, they are certain to be opposed by the local population. This is not a position of my government, it is simply a fact that i have no power to change. Once your forces leave an area, i can assure you that we are quite able to detain the accused.

"So i suggest as a third point, that Tanah Burung will hand those individuals accused of terrorism to a neutral party, mutually agreed upon, for trial under international anti-terrorist law, or under the national law of that country to the extent it is in accord with international human rights law. This will be completed within two months.

"Finally, in case of any dispute over our agreement, i suggest that both parties undertake to submit to arbitration by an agreed-upon party. Our host again may be the best party."

Bi Bere looked around. Her fingers were itching. She wondered if they were allowed to smoke in here.

"We'd be willing to provide arbitration, or to try terrorist suspects." said Drapeur. "As for monitoring a Knootian withdrawal, I wouldn't want to make such a commitment without some consultation."

He then leaned back to let the negotiations continue.

Hans van Mierlo smiled first as Bi Bere giggled, then gradually his face turned to a more serious frown: His frown turned really deep at Bi Beres closing remark. He could nearly hear the temper tantrum of Galadriël in the back of his mind at the mere suggestion of holding the international trials in Pantocratoria. Communists and religious fundamentalists. Some sort of CACEReich, as the popular pun on the conservative KNN Daily Comedy went. Drapeur seemed reasonable as far as jackbooted Christo-fascist anticapitalist insurgents went, but the mere impossibility of selling this back home made him sigh involuntary before he responded.

“I think we are making progress”, he said perhaps a bit too listlessly, “But I am trying to understand the sensitivities of your people as well. And I can only imagine how reluctant they may be in arresting their own countrymen, in smaller villages perhaps even to arrest their own family members. As much as I would like to believe your assurances that you can arrest them all without assistance, it seems so far-fetched. I think you will unfortunately need our forces to do this. Your forces would undoubtedly be able to arrest many, but others might escape to fight another day. If the Rumbiak Brigade launches a bloody strike into Knootian Colombia a month or so into the withdrawal process… “ he sighed again, “well, I need not explain to you the Knootian response back home. If the Rumbiak Brigade survives and attacks again, neither me nor my successor will be able to control affairs. It will be out of my hands, as I’m sure you can imagine. Its questionable if there even will be an SLP foreign minister after such an event.”

“What I was suggesting was not joint policing per se, but rather an individual action by Knootian and allied forces. Without the resistance we could do this. With all due respect, it is not your manpower we need to get this job done but information. I mean not to haggle over time like two merchants at a North Star bazaar, but two months would be logistically impossible to do such a thing. Four to five months would be the maximum, but in two months a significant withdrawal could be accomplished already with maybe half your country completely under your control again. Instead of Matebian I would prefer to sweep Tiga Burung first and move west from there into the more thinly populated areas. Matebian is far inland and it is precisely this that will make the area very difficult to close off so that Brigade members not simply move into the area when we are done. I can agree to neutrals monitoring the withdrawal – if our Pantocratorian hosts agree of course – provided of course these observers are unarmed.”

He took a sip of his drink. “Regarding the issue of law, I wonder what international laws you are referring to. I mean not to dispute the idea but ‘t is an issue of practicality. Which international laws would, in your opinion, provide a legal basis? Also, holding a referendum aside from the legal issue might be a good idea. It was part of our initial request to our government, and given the damage they have done it would only seem reasonable that they are banned for the future.

In closing, he decided he had to mention the location instead of giving implicit acceptance, even if it meant disputing yet another point. "I also do not know if Pantcratoria would be the optimal location for the location of the trial. Perhaps we should generate a few more options.”

Drapeur nodded as van Mierlo commented on the unsuitability of Pantocratoria as a location for the trial.

"We are willing to provide as much or as little support to this process as is needed and wanted. Neither of you need worry about me being offended if any of that support is rejected, for any reason." he said.

The minister nodded, satisfied, and waited for Bi Bere to respond. One of the Knootians aides, meanwhile, was looking a little anxious.

"Thank you, Dr. Drapeur, for your willingness to help out in this process," Bi Bere said. "It's so very sweet of you, my dear." She turned and faced the Knootian minister.

"Of course i want to help the moderate forces in your country produce a negotiated settlement," she began. "That is why we are here, with a clean sheet. But you must understand. As long as Knootian forces are active in military operations in Tanah Burung, my people will fight against them. There is nothing that would raise the support of the Rumbiak Brigades more than a continued KDF operation against them. Already their support is growing, as people decide they were right to fight against Knootoss after all. Any government that collaborated with the KDF after it attacked Tanah Burung would fall."

She paused for a moment, considering her next words. "Indeed, it seems to me almost certain that we shall have to have new elections once our government is back in control. We certainly have them often enough! I will again be a candidate for foreign minister, and if you wish to see me rather than Bapak Alkatiri or (God forbid) a member of the Rumbiak Brigade win, then you shall have to believe me when i say: no Burungi who collaborates with the KDF can possibly be elected. However, perhaps we can find a way around the problem. I am authorized to state that the government-in-exile will immediately hold a referendum on banning the Rumbiak Brigades and actively campaign for a yes vote, within one week of the final departure of Knootian forces. We will also accept military assistance in arresting Brigade members from any friendly country -- that is, almost any country with which we enjoy diplomatic relations. Perhaps Ilek-Vaad or RevTerr would be acceptable?

"As to the rest: i mentioned Matebian because the area is mostly free of Rumbiak Brigade supporters already. As the base of our defence ministry and the home town of both Alkatiri and Bi Kikere, we can quickly secure it against Rumbiak Brigade remnants. However, if you wish to return a different city to our control immediately, this can of course be discussed.

"As to the trials. perhaps we might consider a panel of judges from three countries, to be chosen by the usual IMC method. If you prefer a single country, i suggest one that is not a member of any military alliances. Perhaps a country like Hell Bovines or Biotopia would be suitable. Or my people would probably trust the judgment of any Catholic-majority state that upholds the principles of human dignity and life. If our hosts' services in this matter are rejected by Knootoss, it is possible that Pantocratoria can suggest such a country." She looked towards Drapeur, holding out an arthritic hand.

Van Mierlo was midly shocked at some of the items Bi Bere put forward - to say the least. However he hid it under a polite smile for now, not wishing to intrude on his host.

"If Madame Bi Bere's suggestions are unsatisfactory," Drapeur said, pondering the matter thoughtfully. "Then perhaps, with some consideration of both of your concerns, I could nominate a third party. Or perhaps you'd like to suggest some candidates, Monsieur?"

“Well, I’m a bit unsure about the idea of such a nation having to be a Catholic-majority state”, van Mierlo suggested tentatively. “Considering the rather limited supply of nations that would be fitting I am hesitant at applying such labels...”

“...But if you will allow me to get back to something… how will you arrest all Rumbiak Brigade members? I can assure you that staying in Tanah Burung is hardly an issue that will win us the elections” – one of the diplomats in the back coughed loudly – “and for us it isn’t about Knootians making the arrests but rather forces that are, shall we say, not so very friendly towards the brigades.”

He did wonder why for heavens sake Bi Bere had even mentioned Ilek-Vaad as a partner. Surely she knew… well, maybe it was just to provoke. He shrugged it off. “Personally, as for alternative police forces, I would prefer to have countries that we are not at war with or have exchanged fire with in recent months.”, he said with a weak grin. “Rather, people who are not involved at all. We would trust nations like Iuthia, or perhaps the Federated Segments of Scolopendra to do the job very tidily also. Nations that have not spoken out on the issue, at any rate. I would also trust Etaros to be impartial in providing judges or arresting brigade members.”

"I say we can arrest the Brigade members because we know who they are," Bi Bere replied with more heat than was her habit. "We live with them, we know their mothers and their sisters. How would you identify the people to arrest? You've already shown, my dear, that you would arrest our foreign minister for Brigade mebership without a shred of evidence, if you could lay your hands on him."

She stared across the table for a moment, all traces of her normal smile gone from her face. She had not liked van Mierlo's answer one bit, with its implication that Burungi forces were in league with the Rumbiak Brigades.

"As to these states you mention: we have no diplomatic relations with them, so i know nothing of them. I am sorry, but i am a simple woman and know nothing of these youthful federated segments of which you speak. Perhaps you'd like to enlighten me. But I for one would be grateful for any suggestions that Dr. Drapeur might make on the question of a third party."

"I think it is an issue which warrants some thought." said Drapeur. "I would suggest we put this third party aside from the time being, in the interests of moving forward. Perhaps tomorrow we could compose a list of candidates, and each of you could talk with their ambassador to Pantocratoria to determine whether you think they are suitable?"

"A wise suggestion," Bi Bere said, her smile returning. "After all, there is some common ground. We have agreed to a staged Knootian withdrawal, although the timing remains to be seen. We have agreed to arrest and trial of the Rumbiak Brigade members, although the details remain. I'm sure we can work out these details. There is one point i raised that is outstanding, however, and that is agreement to arbitration in case of any further disputes. I do hope you'll keep that in mind, Minister."

Dr Drapeur nodded as he listened to Bi Bere. He turned to van Mierlo.

"Well, what about that point, Monsieur?" he asked. "If you two can come to an principle agreement on that point, we'll have made some real progress today."

“I think they are good general principles to proceed with as guidelines in Chantouillet negotiations” the minister said tentatively. “But the issue of arresting all suspected Rumbiak Brigade members is absolutely vital to this process working. It really needs to be considered further, in my opinion. Instead of taking the easy way of ambiguous wording we need to have a firm reality check in that matter.”

"I don't believe anyone has mentioned final wording on anything," Bi Bere said. "I merely attempt to narrow down general heads of agreemtn so that we can flesh out thw details. I've said that we are able to make the arrests and that we will accept the assistance of a third party. But i'll happily discuss it further. What sort of reality check did you have in mind?"

“Well”, he began, “I would like a reality check in the sense that we should both recognise the inherent difficulties of having brothers arrest their brothers, and of Bi Kikere hunting the people she has been cooperating with for the last several months.”

He sighed. “I will be ruthlessly honest here. The Knootian Defence Force has successfully arrested many Rumbiak Brigade members in recent months. The only reason why they did not get everyone is because of the resistance. An independent military force with the proper information and cooperation would be effective in rolling up the brigades, whereas a group of people emerging from months of jungle warfare would not. I have no doubt that your intentions are sincere, but you cannot speak for the thousands of defenders over there in that jungle. If we left now, just like that, it would become a chaos."

He spoke slower now, more considered. "We can both picture it right now; the jungle fighters marching into the cities victoriously waving flags and guns, Brigade member and defender side by side. The people of Loro Sae hang out their old pro-brigade banners and there would be a smashing party with fireworks and drink and everyone having a jolly good time. And the following month, bang, a bomb attack in Bogotá killing thirty Knootians as the start of a new campaign of terror. I cannot let that scenario happen.”

"Perhaps so," the old woman sighed. "Bombings have not been among their tactics so far, but i'm afraid your invasion has made the Brigades stronger and more radical than before. Bi Kikere has assured me she will work with a force from a third country. She will not work with Knootian forces or your allies, however. Can you suggest a country that we might both be able to work with?"

“Frankly, I have no idea” van Mierlo answered. “I believe the Knootian Defence Force would be most effective, working alongside Valinon and Chimaean forces with the Etaran naval presence. They are there, they are effective and they have no ideological or emotional ties to the Brigades. Given the demands you’ve placed on the nature of the theoretical third party nation that would do their job instead of us” – he paused – “I see absolutely no viable candidate.”

One of the men sitting next to van Mierlo jumped in at this point. “It is clear that your Excellencies have agreed that the general guidelines proposed by Ms. Bi Bere are workable,” he suggested, “But in view of some of the doubts being expressed by the minister it might be better to consider the principles more carefully.” The aide took a deep breath: “While the items on the summary are acceptable in principle, some of the considerations are so complex and finely balanced that the prudent practice would be for Knootoss to submit the proposal for more detailed consideration, as Ms. Bi Bere suggested, while laying stress on the essential continuity of a new proposal with existing principles, and the principle of the principle arguments which the proposal proposes and propounds for their approval, in principle.”

Van Mierlo turned to his countryman, looking mostly confused.

Drapeur blinked a few times and shook his head as if to clear the mothballs out from between his ears.

"I'm quite sure I wasn't alone in not understanding a word of that, Monsieur...?" Drapeur asked the gentleman.

"Lodewyk-Reimar van Heemskerck." replied the proud Knootian.

"Well, Monsieur van Heemskerck, we'll be sure to keep your advice in mind." he said. "May I propose however that in order to keep things moving through proper channels, that we restrict the conversation to Monsieur van Mierlo, Madame Bi Bere, and myself? By all means feel free to advise the good Minister, but as we can all bear witness, Monsieur van Mierlo is quite articulate and more than capable of speaking for himself."

The Knootian looked a bit bemused at being lectured, but van Mierlo immediately jumped in. “Oh, it is quite all-right,” he replied to Drapeur. “I have full confidence in Mr. van Heemskerck. His word has been my word for many years now.” He said. These words restored some of the broken pride of the Knootian diplomat, and the minister continued: “ What Lodewyk meant – I think – is that we take a break to reassess what has been said, before coming with a new proposal. Is that right?” Lodewyk-Reimar nodded, even though some of the subtleties of his words were lost in this interpretation.

"In which case, I certainly agree with him." said Drapeur, nodding. "You've both made excellent progress here today. To think that we'd even have gotten this far just a few hours ago seemed unlikely indeed. Congratulations to both of you."

Drapeur rose and nodded to each ambassador.

"I shall leave you in the hands of our guides to show you about Chantouillet. A word of advice, I believe the gardens are quite spectacular, even at this time of year." he said.

"I should dearly love to see them," Bi Bere said. "A fine day's work, but some fresh air will do us all good. Tell me, dear heart" -- she turned and faced one of the guides -- "is there any objection to a small open flame in the gardens? I have a ceremony i should like to perform which involves burning some papers."

Meanwhile, Alvaro Pinto approached Drapeur. "Sir, we have not yet met formally. I'm Pinto, the new ambassador to the court of Christ Pantacrator. Might i have a brief word with you about another matter?"

"Certainly, Monsieur..." said Drapeur, walking with Pinto into another room.

"Erm..." said one of the guides to Bi Bere. "Actually... erm... I'm afraid I don't know. Why don't I get the fire warden to supervise?"

Being guided by one of their Pantocratorian hosts Lodewyk-Reimar van Heemskerck and Hans van Mierlo moved off to be given a guided tour of the gardens. The third Knootian remained behind, however, apparently waiting until Ms. Bi Bere would become available.

((OOC: not inspired to dress this post up too much I'm afraid))

Bi Bere noticed the Knootian sstanding alone: he looked like he was waiting. Well, all right then. She walked over to him. "While we wait for the fire warden, perhaps you'd like to walk with me?"

Meanwhile Pinto followed the Pantocratorian leader into a smaller room: well-swept, but perhaps not quite as impressive as the conference room. "Sir, this may not be the time or place," he began. "But my government is looking to the day when it is once again back in control in Tanah Burung. All things will be open again then, for us, and i am hoping to negotiate some new connections before that day. I wonder if you might consider a trade deal, perhaps to be announced at a later date if all agree?"

He handed over some carefully-woven textiles bearing religious imagery.

"These were made in the Burungi refugee camps in Eauz. We are looking for buyers. The people in these camps, they are very simple, very religious folk for the most part. They are hoping to establish a trade in religious statues and relics and the like, things that are sadly lacking among our usual trade partners in the International Fair Trade Agreement. If there are those in Pantocratoria who might be willing to sell them these things, i am hoping that we might at the right moment sign a trade agreement. It will require us asking an exemption from our friends in the IFTA to trade outside the bloc, but i am sure they would agree. Perhaps some day your government might even wish to join the IFTA itself, as a step towards the rights of working people which i know you are pledged to uphold."

"I'm sure you could find people willing to trade for these textiles..." said Drapeur, politely admiring the work before handing it back to Pinto. "I'm sure you could trade them for virtually anything in fact, food, medical supplies even. Why don't I get the Department of Trade to send someone up here to talk with you about finding buyers for your goods?"

"I've always viewed free trade, so long as it doesn't threaten jobs, to be of great benefit to working people. The extra competition means that they can get more for their ducat in the supermarket. That's why Pantocratoria is a member of the Trade Network Association, and my Government plans to expand our membership in similar organisations." he continued.

Bi Bere noticed the Knootian standing alone: he looked like he was waiting. Well, all right then. She walked over to him. "While we wait for the fire warden, perhaps you'd like to walk with me?"

The Knootian was unusually tall in appearance yet by the shape of his ears he appeared to be human. “Amras Eärfalas” he said with a quick bow. “I have always been an admirer of your diplomatic capabilities and today only confirmed my expectations. Your ability to acquire compromises and use synergy is admirable. In fact, your skills would be worth much on the corporate mediation Market. Big Cola and Big Automobile would be willing to pay greatly for such individuals as yourself”

He smiled as if he had just made her a grand compliment. “Your psychological profile is required reading for senior members of our diplomatic corps. I probably know things about you that you don't know yourself.” He grinned smugly.

Synergy? Violeta Bi Bere had never been spoken to in such a fashion in her life. This one was a true believer, obviously from some Knootian market cult. She threw back her head and laughed.

"Oh honey, what must your dreams be like?" She strode away and prepared herself for the ritual with a small prayer.

Strictly speaking, this was not a Catholic ceremony. As a devout Catholic, it was not something she should, if she were completely true to doctrine, take part in. And yet her church was an open-minded one, and she was an especially open-minded woman. And so she partook, when the mood struck, in the old rituals of the old religion.

She lit a candle and sat cross-legged on the ground, then removed from her bag a stack of small pieces of paper, each one bearing a name. These were the names, the ones she knew, of Burungi citizens killed since the Knootian invasion.

"Carlos da Cruz." She read each name aloud, then put the paper into the flame.

"Magda Santos." Fire consumed the name.

"Arlindo Suminingrat." Smoke from the burning carried the names heavenwards.

"Fatmawati Guntur Putri." God rest their souls, she thought.

She remained there for a time, readign the names, burning them, remembering the people.

---

"Thank you, Sir, i'd be pleased to discuss the matter further with the appropriate officials," Pinto replied, smiling at Drapeur. "I find it's always best to clear these matters with the man in charge first, and i'm very pleased you're agreeable."

OOC: Noooz! My pathetic attempt to bribe her foiled! Anyway... my people would have conferred now and Hans van Mierlo could have sent about a dozen letters he wrote about this time during the break. Sooo... I guess I'm (ICly and OOCly) ready to continue negotiations when you are.

Drapeur was ready for the second day of negotiations, having prepared lists of ambassadors of potential neutral third parties for the perusal of both parties. He sat with his aides in the negotiation room while the final preparations were made before the delegations would be invited back in. When everything was ready, the doors were opened, and Drapeur rose to greet the ambassadors.

The Knootians promptly arrived, with Hans van Mierlo walking in with a smile on his face and a few papers with notes in his hand. He had high hopes, it appeared, of progress being made and despite his age his pace war firm. He was followed on his heels by Lodewyk-Reimar van Heemskerck who was also looking optimistic, though his formalistic ‘civil servantish’ character prevented him from being too outspoken in his expression. The enigmatic Amras Eärfalas was looking particularly dark, slouching a bit even before he took his seat.

Looking more rested and calmer, Violeta Bi Bere took her seat.

"I have drafted an agreement that may represent our progress so far," she said. "Of course, i am not suggesting we formalyl adopt anything, but it may be of some help. Dr. Drapeur, Minister van Mierlo: i look to you for guidance. Shall we proceed on the basis of my draft, in which case i will read it, or is further general discussion needed?"

"I think that we should hear it before we make a decision on that, don't you agree, Monsieur?" Drapeur replied.

Van Mierlo nodded. "I had developed a proposal myself for your consideration, but I am of course willing to listen to what Ms. Bi Bere has to say first."

Bi Bere nodded to the other two and passed around copies of her proposal. "I should say that this is a draft that i believe represents our progress to date. I have bracketed the points of detail that require further negotiation."

Heads of agreement

The parties will endeavour to do all within their power to persuade their governments and other adherents to abide by the following terms:

1. The Knootian Defence Force will withdraw in stages from Tanah Burung. They agree to immediately hand over control of the city of (Matebian) to (the elected Governor). The withdrawal will be completed within (four) months.

2. During the transition period, Knootian withdrawal will be monitored by military observers from (state).

3. During the transition period, Burungi authorities will not invite any new foreign forces into the country and will respect a cease fire as long as withdrawals continue.

4. Individuals accused of terrorism in connection with membership in an organization known as “the Rumbiak Brigade” shall be tried on these charges in the courts of (state). The death penalty shall not be applied in the case of any convictions. The trials shall be in accordance with United Nations resolutions on fair trials.

5. Arrests of suspected Rumbiak Brigade members shall be carried out by the armed forces of (state). Knootian and Burungi forces shall cooperate fully with these forces. Their mission will be completed by the end of the transition period.

6. Once restored to power, the government of Tanah Burung will hold a national referendum on banning the Rumbiak Brigade.

7. In case of any dispute over our agreement, both sides will submit to mediation and, if no agreement is possible, binding arbitration by (Pantocratoria).

8. The signatories express their thanks to Dr. Thibault Drapeur for his assistance in reaching this agreement and their gratitude to the Emperor and people of Pantocratoria for their hospitality.

Hans van Mierlo, Foreign Minister, Dutch Democratic Republic of Knootoss

Violeta Bi Bere, Ambassador, United Provinces of Tanah Burung


"As you can see, i have modified some of my earlier proposals in light of your comments, my dear Minister," she said. "As to states that we might approach, i suggest we might consider approaching the Federated Klatchian Coast, and perhaps Goobergunchia would be willing to help in some capacity. And given your recent peace with Ilek-Vaad, there may be role for them also."

Lodewyk-Reimar van Heemskerck immediately began making notes as the minister looked over the right planes:
“Hmmm. To be fair, my own proposal was rather more rehashing the already agreed upon point instead of so many new ones.” He fished a pair of glasses from his breast pocket and put them on his nose, closely looking over the finer terms:

“Hmmm… I never agreed to an immediate handover of Matebian, he mused as van Heemskerck penned rapidly. “And using United Nations trial rules? That would not include their impractical jury system I hope. I thought national laws would apply…” he read the final sentence. “And binding arbitration by Pantocratoria or any other nation is not at all something we agreed upon I’m afraid, Ms. Bi Bere.”

“And this referendum business…” Amras Eärfalas pitched in but he was interrupted by a small but subtle cough that Hans immediately responded to. “Are you done Lodewyk?”, he asked kindly. The bureaucrat nodded: “I have written down the list of your proposed points, but the primary principles of the draft counter proposal are more in accordance with the primary principles of your own proposal in set up. It is brief in putting forward the text, but I believe it covers the points you suggested as well as putting forward the Knootian position with regards to the points proposed in the proposal.”

He passed the list on to van Mierlo, who scanned it quickly and then passed it on. The high level of trust and understanding between the men was obvious; after a few seconds he concluded: “Yes… that will do just fine” – and passed it on to Drapeur.

Suggested main points wording
-KDF will withdraw in stages from Tanah Burung. Agree to hand control of the island of Tiga Burung as soon as all suspected Rumbiak Brigade members there have been arrested by third party forces. Full withdrawal will be completed as soon as all Rumbiak Brigade Members have been arrested, with a planned timetable of four months.
-During the transition period, Knootian withdrawal will be monitored by civilian observers from a foreign state.
-During the transition period, Burungi authorities will not invite new foreign forces into the country and will respect a cease fire as long as withdrawals continue.
-Individuals accused of membership of the Rumbiak Brigade, terrorism or conspiracy to commit terrorist acts shall be tried on these charges in the courts of a foreign state.
-Chosing nation with mutually agreed upon justice system, under state law. No capital punishment.
-Arrests of suspected Rumbiak Brigade members shall be carried out by the armed forces of third state. KDF and Burungi forces shall cooperate fully with these forces. Their mission will be completed by the end of the transition period.
-The current ban of the Rumbiak Brigade will remain in place.
-In case of any dispute over our agreement, both sides will submit to non-binding mediation.
-Thanks to Dr. Thibault Drapeur

"I bracketed the points that are open for debate," Bi Bere replied. "My proposal contains nothing that i had not already mentioned, of course. Since you never replied to my point about mediation, i assumed it was acceptable." She glanced over the points.

"Let me come back to the first point," she said. "As to the rest, I'll be happy to accept that the foreign observers will be civilian, so long as they are well informed enough about military matters to be able to carry out their duties. The third point is my own, so of course i accept it. The fourth concerns the foreign trial. A slong as there is no death penalty applicacable and the trials are conducted in a fair manner, then i will drop the point on UN standards. The next point was also in my proposal. As to the current ban on the Rumbiak Briagade remainign in palce, however, there has still not been a ban on the Brigade passed, so i'm afraid the point is factually inaccurate. It's also covered by the agreement to arrest and try Rumbiak Brigade members. I sugegst we drop both that point and my point about a referendum."

Normally Violeta Bi Bere never displayed anger in a negotiating process, but it was especially important for a negotiator normally seen as moderate to show that there were limits to her concessions. So she let her feelings show as she continued.

"I bracketed Matebian to show that the question was open for further discussion. I have suggested an immediate handover of one area in order to show a token of faith on your part. If you are not prepared to give us anything now, my dear Minister, you are simply asking us to trust Knootoss. That is asking a great deal. We trusted your government not to invade our country, after all, and look what it got us. I suggested an immediate handover of Matebian because i can assure you that our forces can easily keep Rumbiak Brigade sympathizers under control there, but if you prefer to hand over Tiga Burung province immediately then this will be fine. A so-called 'planned timetable' of four months is not sufficient. What is to stop the warmonger running your government from simply announcing that the timetable cannot be met? Again, you ask us to simply trust you. There must be a firm deadline. Why, after all the lies your government has told, should we trust you?"

She took a breath. "I have agreed to most of your changes, Minister. Will you agree to any of mine?"

Amras Eärfalas jumped up aggressively. “How dare you accuse the Lady Prime Minister of warmongering or insult her honour!” He glared at Bi Bere accusingly. “Beheers jezelf Amras, tenzij je werkelijk wilt duelleren met een oude vrouw voor de eer van Círdans huis. Erg irrationeel. ”, Hans van Mierlo snapped back in Dutch. This seemed to calm the man down and he sat down again, very much unsatisfied.

“Nulla Poena Sine Lege”, Lodewyk-Reimar van Heemskerck whispered carefully as if afraid to upset some careful balance in the room. “I believe that ban on the Rumbiak Brigade was an important legal instrument, spoken out by your government using their emergency powers at the start of Operation Tempo Doeloe. This fact should be recognised by the country where the trials are to take place.”

“Moreover, we can never abandon Tanah Burung while the Rumbiak Brigade is legal”, van Mierlo continued calmly in the trend of his friend. “That would leave it a festering free zone for anti-Knootian attacks. I understand your need for trust. We all need trust”, he affirmed, “but your own fifth point of agreement stipulated clearly that the arrests of suspected Rumbiak Brigade members shall be carried out by the armed forces of a third state. Thus, this third state will be making the arrests, and not your own forces.” He frowned. “I honestly thought that we had reached agreement on this matter and I cannot come back from that core agreement for the sake of making a gesture of goodwill.” He shook his head in resignation.

“Perhaps as a concession, we could make the timetable dependent on the third nations reported progress in arresting members of the Rumbiak Brigade. This is our shared objective after all. If this state can manage to do this in four months then so much the better. But the general principle will remain that Knootian and third state forces will leave the United Provinces when the last terrorist does, and not a minute earlier.”

"Let's calm things down again. Monsieur van Mierlo, if any of your assistants pull a stunt like that again, I'm going to ask them to leave the room and go calm down in the gardens somewhere." Drapeur interjected.

"Now on the topic of the KDF's withdrawal..." he said. "The whole point to you two agreeing on a third party was for a neutral party to both arrest the Rumbiak Brigades and supervise the withdrawal of Knootian forces. There's no point at all in bringing in a third party if Knootian troops are still going to be on the ground."

"Perhaps I can suggest a sort of middle ground." he continued. "What if this happened on a province by province basis? Knootian troops could withdraw from a province, the third party could go in, arrest the suspected Rumbiak Brigade members, and when they were done, move onto the next province. The only timeline for overall withdrawal would be how long it takes the third party to arrest the suspects, and in the meantime, Tanah Burung could be handed back province by province to its own government. The Knootian show of faith you wanted, Madame, will be withdrawing from a province for the third party to do its work - that way you can both trust each other through the comforting proxy of a mutually agreed upon third party."

The Minister nodded. “I generally agree with this thought, but I would suggest that Knootian forces only withdraw directly after a province has been successfully cleared. After all, we do need to actually prevent Brigade members from escaping to another province as well as monitor the third parties progress.”

"Doesn't that defy the point of having a third party at all? They're there to monitor your withdrawal as much as to arrest your suspected terrorists." Drapeur said. "You can be sure that the suspects don't flee to other provinces because you'll still be occupying the other provinces."

“The withdrawal will be monitored by neutral observers”, the minister replied, “of a civilian nature. The civilian observers are free to come and go but they cannot replace a military presence. We need to have a presence inside the province itself if we are to prevent people from crossing the border; this is not a political desirability but a hard military fact.”

((Sorry :( ))

(apologies for long delay. just finished a very long writing project, and i'll try to catch up on threads now)

"Perhaps I can suggest a sort of middle ground." he continued. "What if this happened on a province by province basis? Knootian troops could withdraw from a province, the third party could go in, arrest the suspected Rumbiak Brigade members, and when they were done, move onto the next province. The only timeline for overall withdrawal would be how long it takes the third party to arrest the suspects, and in the meantime, Tanah Burung could be handed back province by province to its own government. The Knootian show of faith you wanted, Madame, will be withdrawing from a province for the third party to do its work - that way you can both trust each other through the comforting proxy of a mutually agreed upon third party."

Bi Bere nodded to herself as she heard the Chancellor's words. The compromise was acceptable to her. She only hoped she could sell her government on it.

But maybe it didn't matter. Van Mierlo was speaking, rejecting the compromise. Disappointing, that. She listened to the two men trade comments, and then spoke.

"It seems to me, Minister, that you are trying to gut the main principle here, the agreement that arrests of Rumbiak Brigde members are to be made by a third party. No arrests will be possible in any province while Knootian forces remain there."

She eyed the fuming Amras Eärfalas. Interesting, that outburst. Maybe van Mierlo did not have as free a hand as she had thought: this was was pretty clearly a personal agent of the Prime Minister of Knootoss. She decided to poke a little more.

"So, dear heart," she said, smiling sweetly at van Mierlo, "are you prepared to consider any withdrawals in favour of the third party, in which case i think we shall be able to reach a mutually benefocial agreement, or is your government set on the aggressive policy of the Conservative Party?"

"Let's not goad each other, Madame." Drapeur interjected again. "Let's look at this from a purely pragmatic standpoint, shall we? The KDF has so far had limited success arresting Brigade members, for any number of reasons, not least of which I'm sure is the unwillingness of the Burungi people to cooperate with an occupying power. Don't you think that it would serve both your interests for a third party to take charge of the arrests, not just to perform them, but to be seen by the Burungi people as making arrests independent of Knootian authority?"

Bi Bere offered her widest smile. If her teeth were better, the effect might have been quite nice.

"Oh, yes, indeed yes. I agree entirely."

“Well,” the minister began carefully, “Instead of responding to your suggestion immediately may I first conclude that we already have a fairly comprehensive agreement for today, with only two points that should be deferred until later.” He smiled back.

I think it would be wise, if our Pantocratorian host agrees of course, that both of us are given the opportunity to confer with our colleagues about the contents of this proposal. I believe the DDR can make a comprehensive offer that will meet the demands of Alkatiri as well as settle Knootian security concerns. May I therefore suggest that the negotiations are closed for the time until we’ve had an opportunity to confer?”

((OOC: Sorry… been busy busy busy. :( But posted now, anyway. If you agree with the guy ICly he can make a full proposal after returning home ;) ))

A comprehensive offer? More Knootian promises, and almsot certainly a delaying tactic. Still, Bi Bere thought, it would do no good to slam the door on even sucha slim hope.

"I defer to Dr. Drapeur on the question," Bi Bere said. "But if you require time to consult your government, then i for one will not object. Of course, each day of delay is another day of war and death among both our peoples, so i hope the time to consult will not be too long."

"I can assure you that consultations will be as speedily as possible", van Mierlo assured before looking at Drapeur.

Continues here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=8626665#post8626665) . The same post has also been made in the KNN thread.

OOC: Weird, I never saw either of those posts made on the 25/03 before now!

IC:

"I believe that there's been a good in-principle agreement on a number of key issues, and that it would be appropriate to temporarily suspend negotiations before reconvening to hammer out the other issues, and signing a formal agreement." Drapeur said. "I believe that is distinct from closing these negotiations. Let us instead suspend them, say for a fortnight, and reconvene after the necessary consultations."