NationStates Jolt Archive

I can do the RP's and shit, but i have no clue as of how to keep track of my Military forces, whats what, and what everything is. As far as im concerned, its nothing more than this


12 E9FO Tanks
12 Soldiers armed with FDWS-595 Rifles
12 FOCITND-684 Jets


Ya..can someone like help me out here, how can i keep track of it, organize it, and someone list some basic military units (Guns, tanks, jets, battleships) that are commonly used on NS


Also, when i want to create a storefront, i have no idea what is realistic and what isnt.....Can i get some help on that too.

Well the best advice for modern RP help is to read the FAS (http://www.fas.org) website and the very simialr www.globalsecurity.org site these give you good ideas about what sort of equipment a military needs as well as supplyign basic stats and other useful bits and bobs.

As to actually organising your force thigns get mroe complciated with each Rl army having thier own organisation for each unit which often varies from unit to unit.

To be honest you are aswell coming up with a simple standard layout such as the Rule of 3.
ie:
1 platoon= 24 inf, 16 inf and 2 IFVs, 2 towed guns or 1 vehicle (tank, SPG)
1 company= 3 platoons
1 battalion= 3 companies
1 brigade/regiment= 3 battalions
1 divsion= 3 brigades

You woudl also tend to add in a command section at the head of each company, battalion etc with these increaseing in size with the size of unit you are of course free to change the ratios how ever you like and battalions and brigades can be made up of mixed types of units if you desire.

For more fairly simple organisational schemes try looking up the various systems from battletech such as the inner sphere regimental system (including the massive regimental combat teams), the clan star system and the Comstar base6 scheme.

Generally, books are your freinds with the equipment. The best advice I can give you is to dedicate your life to military history and organization... but not many people are that nerdy like I am.
So I guess websites can suffice (Even though most of the time they're propaghanda).

As for organization of your forces, that is up to you entirely. The Rule of 3 mentioned above, is pretty standard, but it doesn't have to be. Also, feel free to copy an existing military organization. If you decide to copy an existing military, don't copy the US system, it's horribly disorganised. You're better off with the British, French, or German system.
Or you can make one up.

If you wanna make one up, the easiest, and best way, is to start from the bottem.
First, choose the basic structure for your units, this is your "lowest common denominator". Usually this is the Squad of 6-8, but doesn't have to be, and 4 person squads arn't unheard of.
Second, you need to group them together, again, this is into a unit usually called the Section, and consists of aproxemetly 2 or 3 squads. A Platoon is the next step up, and consists of 2 or 3 Sections.
Now, the Platoon is usually regarded as the base of all military formations, and as such, you might want to use that as your basic unit, comprising it of special squads as you see fit.
Now, the American system, as I've said is bad, is to stick multiple specialities into one platoon, you can do this, but be advised, it's hard to keep organised, and often leads to the larger groups being broken up when they're needed in another way.
Instead, I suggest you organise your platoons into simmilar units.
Instead of the platoon style posted above, perhaps a 24-man platoon could look more like this, consisting of 2 sections.

Platoon:
1st Section:
- Rifle Squad (6 men), infantry
- Support Squad (6 men), 2 snipers, 1 mortar (crew 2), 2 other troops of whatever speciality you choose
2nd Section:
- Rifle Squad (6 men), infantry
- Specialised squad (6 men), perhaps CQB specialists, scouts, engineers, or any other specific profession

This gives you a good spread, and not the logistical and organizational nightmare of these "combined arms" platoons. Instead you leave these organizations for Company level or higher. Where you could have 1 tank platoon, 1 infantry platoon, and 1 IFV/APC platoon. The IFV/APC platoon consists of only the IVF's and their crew, the infanry that ride in back are members of the infantry platoon. This allows you to mix and match your platoons as required per operation.

I hope that helped, if you need any more advice, I'd be glad to post the organisation of my Marines, as I consider them very well done.

ok, say we are going into a war RP, your posting your forces...Can someone post an example of what a full blown army would look like, and then kinda break it down.

bump, i also need help with storefronts, like how to make a decent one...whats realistic and whats not.

Eh, sorry dude, been kinda busy.

Um, for storefronts and what's realistic. I'd say look at current technology on the net.
Say you want to create and sell a bomber, then go look up some bombers and use them for refrence.
I don't know much more for sucessful storefronts... but there was a sticky around I remember reading in the International Incidents area that can give a link to some info on that.

As for a full blown army.. that's tough. It's really nothing more then breaking things down into smaller units. Like...
1 Army = 3 Corps
1 Corps = 3 Brigades
1 Brigade = 3 Divisions
1 Division = 3 Regiments
1 Regiment = 3 Companies
1 Company = 3 Platoons
1 Platoon = 3 Sections
1 Section = 3 Squads
1 Squad = 4 Soldiers

So it keeps going up into larger groups.
At any level you can specialize the units, like armor, snipers, pilots, anything. And many modern armies use Combined Operations forces, which would be like a Division made up of say, an Armor Regiment, an Infantry Regiment, and an Artillery Regiment. Each regiment then being further broken down into things like Engineers, Tanks, APC's, Towed or Self Propelled artillery. How you combine them is up to you. But a good rule of thumb is to have three times as many troops as tanks, and twice as many troops as artillery. Since troops are your many force. This being for the army only of course.
It's really just a be-creative thing.
I hope that helps?

Infantry
1 Regiment = 5+ Companies
1 Company = 4 Platoons
1 Platoon = 4 Squads
1 Squad = 2-3 Fire Teams
1 Fire Team = 4 Soldiers

Armor
1 Platoon = 4 tanks

Aircraft
1 Squadron = ~5 Flights
1 Flight = 3-8 Aircraft

Navy
1 Fleet = 4 Task Forces
1 Task Force = 10-16 ships

Infantry
1 Regiment = 5+ Companies
1 Company = 4 Platoons
1 Platoon = 4 Squads
1 Squad = 2-3 Fire Teams
1 Fire Team = 4 Soldiers

Armor
1 Platoon = 4 tanks

Aircraft
1 Squadron = ~5 Flights
1 Flight = 3-8 Aircraft

Navy
1 Fleet = 4 Task Forces
1 Task Force = 10-16 ships

Let's hear it for posting numbers you just made up.

Infantry
1 Regiment = 5+ Companies
1 Company = 4 Platoons
1 Platoon = 4 Squads
1 Squad = 2-3 Fire Teams
1 Fire Team = 4 Soldiers

would be what i recall from my time in the US Army....
the rest is just what I use for my ns military, I thought it would help...

Infantry
1 Regiment = 5+ Companies
1 Company = 4 Platoons
1 Platoon = 4 Squads
1 Squad = 2-3 Fire Teams
1 Fire Team = 4 Soldiers

would be what i recall from my time in the US Army....
the rest is just what I use for my ns military, I thought it would help...

'Fire team' is a nonexistent organisational unit. 'Squad' I have here as 9-10 soldiers, Platoon 16-44 [2+ squads], Company 3-5 platoons, Battalion 4-6 companies, Brigade 2-5 battalions [Armored, cavalry, ranger and Special Forces use 'regiments' here], Division usually 3 brigades, Corps 2-5 divisions, Army 2+ corps, Army Group 2+ Armies, I think.

http://www.militarydial.com/army-force-structure.htm

The Wikipedia on Military formations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Military_formations) and Military Units (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_structure).

More from the Wikipedia (in order from smallest to largest):
Fireteam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fireteam)
Squad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squad)
Platoon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platoon)
Company (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_%28military_unit%29)
Battalion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battalion)
Regiment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regiment) or Brigade (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigade)
Division (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_%28military%29)
Corps (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corps)
Army (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army#Military_unit)
Army Group (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_group)

Each unit contains between 2 and 6 of the units below it. The current US model is the "tripod" of 3 sub units. The US has used the "square" model (4) and the pentatonic model (5) in the recent past (post WWII era).

The aforementioned globalsecurity.com US Army Units (http://globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/intro.htm)
YUSSR/Russia (http://globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/index.html)

A [b]long[/ur] and complex TOE* for the US army (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/army/unit/toe/)

ORBATs* (http://orbat.com/site/toe/)

a slightly out of date version of my own ORBAT (http://www.angelfire.com/dragon/daistallia/military/army/order.html)
same time frame overview of my own military (http://www.angelfire.com/dragon/daistallia/military/armedforces.html)

*TOE=Table of Organization and Equipment - a listing of the organization and equipment for a military unit
ORBAT=ORder of BATtle, similar to TOE

(I can keep going on and on about this if you want more help... ;))

'Fire team' is a nonexistent organisational unit.

In your country or in general? If you mean the later, you might want to consult FM 7-8 (www.adtal.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/fm/7-8/appa.htm) (copy here (http://globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/7-8/)).

In your country or in general? If you mean the later, you might want to consult

Is in most of the reference material I have on the subject [which is out of date, 's true]. Also, I really doubt a large NS army could deal with org units as fiddly as fire teams for anything but special forces, it would just be too painful.

Is in most of the reference material I have on the subject [which is out of date, 's true]. Also, I really doubt a large NS army could deal with org units as fiddly as fire teams for anything but special forces, it would just be too painful.

Not as far as anything I've read.

USMC To1013g (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/usmc/to/ground/To1013g.htm) (Feb 99) lists fire teams, as does FM 7-8 (Apr 92)
A-2. RIFLE SQUAD
The most common rifle squad has nine soldiers (Figure A-6). It fights as two fire teams. The squad has one squad leader, two fire team leaders, two automatic riflemen, two riflemen, and two grenadiers.

Fiddly maybe, but the TOEs I'm currently updating go that far down:
http://www.angelfire.com/dragon/daistallia/advmil/infantry/squad.html. :D

Not as far as anything I've read.

'Lazy reference' book on the side here is 3rd edition Guinness Book of Answers (C) 1980. Didn't really feel motivated enough for serious digging.

'Lazy reference' book on the side here is 3rd edition Guinness Book of Answers (C) 1980. Didn't really feel motivated enough for serious digging.

Aha. That explains alot. May I reccomend How to Make War (Fourth Edition) : A Comprehensive Guide to Modern Warfare in the Twenty-first Century
by James F. Dunnigan (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/006009012X/qid=1104176094/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-3586560-1646212?v=glance&s=books) as a good military reference?

Aha. That explains alot. May I reccomend How to Make War (Fourth Edition) : A Comprehensive Guide to Modern Warfare in the Twenty-first Century
by James F. Dunnigan (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/006009012X/qid=1104176094/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-3586560-1646212?v=glance&s=books) as a good military reference?

<Ahem>

I have access to better materials, fersure. The point was I couldn't be arsed to stand up and get them when I had a useful-ish reference right next to me.

I can do the RP's and shit, but i have no clue as of how to keep track of my Military forces, whats what, and what everything is. As far as im concerned, its nothing more than this


12 E9FO Tanks
12 Soldiers armed with FDWS-595 Rifles
12 FOCITND-684 Jets


Ya..can someone like help me out here, how can i keep track of it, organize it, and someone list some basic military units (Guns, tanks, jets, battleships) that are commonly used on NS


Also, when i want to create a storefront, i have no idea what is realistic and what isnt.....Can i get some help on that too.

TG me with an email address and I will email you a couple of decent military calculators. This will help you determine what you ought to be able to have, and will also help organize things a bit. One of the calculators breaks units down by number of troops/unit, so that might help.

As far as what unit/weapon does what, that's largely up to you. If you aren't really up on modern tech, you could read a great deal from a variety of sources. Go to your local library and see if they have a set of Jane's books (Jane's Fighting Ships, Aircraft, etc). These have good descriptions of ships, aircraft, tanks, weapons, and often give realtive capabilities.

You could also check out any of the zillions of storefronts that sell military gear and see what's popular. Look up those weapon systems online and get more details.

Let me know if you need more information.


TEO