NationStates Jolt Archive

Cassius rolled his eyes as he glanced at the Hogsweatian.

"By the gods, man, are you trying to get yourself killed? If not, I'd advise keeping your mouth shut before that happens."

[Freethinkers]

Asiya was shaking and sobbing as the vampire asked his question. Instead of replying immediately she just shook her head and pointed back to the hall, her hand shaking more visibly than the rest of her body, "That... That... Asshole! I do not wish to speak of it. There is an envelope in front of your seat, inside will explain what has happened. If you have any questions, ask Major Hammoud."
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[Hogsweat]

"General, I will accept your personal apology, simply because you have not insulted either of my sovereigns. However, I will accept no apology on behalf of Mr. Vilitov, for he has insulted both of my sovereigns, one of whom is not here to speak against Mr. Vilitov. If he wishes to apologize, he can start by doing so to the Duchess, then the Princess, and then the Emperor should he live through his illness." The Major's words held none of the former ice, just a resignment to the situation at hand.
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[Caras Galadon]

The Major whispered back, "Yes, she should be fine. I'm afraid he was ill before the conference and he has taken a turn for the worst. The reason the Princess isn't here is because he's signed over his powers of government to the Princess on a temporary basis, which will become permanent should he not live."
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{Hogsweat}

James stood up to make another reply this time very heated. Torin chose this as a good time to interject speaking loudly and clearly, "Gentlemen, SIT DOWN! This is not conduct befitting of such a conference. If you do not desist immediately I can only insist that BOTH of you (James and the Hogsweatian) leave this hall."

As James collapsed back into hte chair scowling very harshly Torin muttered in his ear, "We'll take care of the insult later. This is not an appropriate time."


{SS}

Torin, after settling back into his seat quietly whispered to the Scandavian delegate, "We are sorry to hear this. Unfortunately, I must re-assert that there will be a time and a palce for retribution to fall upon Hogsweat."

Clodius merely nodded. Understanding the ladies need for dignity, he resigned from her presence as he moved towards the conference hall. Walking through the doors, he tried as quietly and inconspicuously as possible to return to his seat. Although he saw a few eyes glance towards him, he was partly relieved to see something eventful at the Hogsweatian table that kept most of the halls occupants distracted.

The vampire sat down, adjusting slightly his position so he could have a quick word with Karina whilst everyone else was occupied. She quickly whispered what had happened, as well she could, and Clodius nodded, beginning to understand, though unsure as to why the Duchess had reacted so hysterically. Although the insult was plain enough, (being a vampire he had killed others of his kind for less), he found himself drawn to the note on his desk. Picking up the envelope and recognising the seal, he discreetly opened it in his lap and began reading as soon as the parchment was open.

He eyes blazed quickly from left to right as he read the note, suddenly understanding the situation fully. He glanced up at the Hogsweatian delegate, his face dropping slightly and his mouth opening just enough to let the people in the small cone of vision ahead of him see the fully elongated fangs that now threatened to make an appearance. A vampire’s scowl, for most humans it would induce a deep sense of dread for what it meant, and it certainly was conveying Clodius’s true thoughts at this moment. However, aside from the facial extravagance, he decided to leave the situation for now, no need to inflame things here when the damage was already done. He simply leaned back into the chair, his eyes flicking from one person to another, and waited for everyone to return to business. There would be time for questions later.

Weinweir von Dörn watched the exchange, spiraling out of control. [b]By Marx, Engels and Blätterschplitt![/I] he cursed to himself. “Goddamn it, Rendel, do something!” he yelled into his short-wave radio. Obviously the man in charge of security hadn’t been paying attention. “Get some fucking security in here now!” The situation was deteriorating. Von Dörn watched as the Scandavian Dutchess stood up and stormed out of the room and the Hogsweatians begin a fierce exchange with the delegates from Caras Galadon. Suddenly, two Rabid Gerbils burst into the room, the light reflecting off of their black helmets. “Order, order!” von Dörn yelled. “Edölia will not see a fight break out in this hall!”

Cassius chuckled. "It would seem that Edolia had better act fast or close it's eyes, in that case."

Meanwhile, Ujuy watched with hidden amusement, although outside he appeared sombre. He made a mental note of the Bryn Shander delegate remarks regarding piracy. Gee, I wonder if the OMP, led by those moronic Scandavians, will go after them. Also, he slightly grinned at the Iuthian's statement regarding the Klatch and trade. A sigh. He wasn't entirely sure if the delegates from Hogsweat and Scandavian States were putting on some kind of show just to throw the others off or if it was indeed real. No matter. Both nations were full of pakrahs and his opinion of some of the other nations was now considerably lowered. He caught a glimpse of the Freethinker delegate baring what appeared to be fangs. Tusk envy thought the walrus.

Mark nodded a little with the continuation of the conference. His security concerns would be raised with the Edolian's later in private so not to damage the conferences already lacking momentum, but also because it was the proper way to deal with it.

"Well, as I stated earlier before we got distracted..." again he shot a look towards the Scandavian delegation which had clearly lost it's cool. "I felt it may be more productive as a whole if we find which parts of the treaty, if any, we can agree to."

Mark shrugged. "Personally I find that with our own waters being directly tied to those of our Edolian brother's waters, we have little sway in the matter, though as an outsider nation with trade interests within the region we have already raised our concerns about the effects of trade by such a treaty."

Ambassador Nagy simply stood as the children quarreled.

"The Maritime Territory of the Free Republic extends one hundred miles from the coast of the Free Republic. We will not sign any treaty that specifies otherwise, especially since the treaty , quite unfairly, reserves the right for the Imperium and the Scarlet Empire to 'claim' waters of the Northern Straits as they will."

He then sat and shook his head at the delegations of Hogsweat, Scandavian States and Caras Galadon. He was shocked and appalled at the ignorance of diplomacy that these alleged diplomats had shown and in fact their ignorance of common civility.

He paused and stood again.

"The Free Republic is very saddened to hear of the passing of His Imperial Majesty and we extend our condolences to the people of the Imperium and the Emperor's family."

He sat made some notes and shook his head.

OOC: Worst pretense for war, ever. I am also stunned that SS, being rabidly anti- pirate has nothing to say about Bryn Shander actually allowing piracy? SS has used military force consistently in the past to combat piracy and the states that allow it, why the IC shift in policy? There's your pretext for war.

[Um, because we're allied and the statement was a dig?

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=386475

How's 48,000 civilian casualties a pretext for war? That sit okay with you? I'm becoming more and more convinced that your comprehension of the things around you is below average and I find your habit of jumping to conclusions with no information to be disturbing. Both are things you need to work on.]

OOC: A dig? So they insulted you? Some ally. It seems the Imperium only reserves high standards of conduct for non-allied nations.

[No, at the treaty. Why the hell would I care what he says when I know beforehand why he's saying it?]

OOC: welcome to the Geopolotical world.


IC:The woman fromt he Pauldustllah Delegation stood up. and looked arround the room.
"Pauldustllah coudl not accept this treaty as it affects our trade routes, our merchant vessles, and our trading partners merchant vessles. we jsut wish to ensure that nations that trade with Pauldustllah may enter the strait. without fear of being jumped by pirates or overzelous nations. I am sure that if we would all jsut take our seats and discuss this like civilized People. we can come out of this confrence with at least one agreement that works for everyone. Thank you for hearign me out." she sat back down quietly.and poured heself another glass of vodka.

Ambassador Nagy stood and smiled.

"We agree with the Representative from Pauldustllah, but it appears as though the only pirates that will be assailing ships that trade with Haven are the sanctioned pirates and privateers of Bryn Shander."

He pauses and turns to the Imperium delegation (whether they're scuffling or not)

"The Imperium is vociferously anti-pirate, what stance does the Imperium take to the nation of Bryan Shander allowing piracy within Haven? Will the OMP be deployed to stop Bryn Shanders state sanctioned piracy as it was in Dyelli Beybi? or do you allow your allies to commit acts of piracy? If you do, it would appear to be a hypocritical stance? "

Hurrying in as fast as they could in their tie-dye burkas, the Feline delegation was constantly trying not to trip. They burst into the hall, and before Bartholomew could make some snide remark, he gasped, contemplated making a witty comment, and decided against it.

"Excuse me." he said with the authority of a veteran diplomat, somewhat undermined by the tie-dye burka. "Could someone please fill me in on what the holy fuck led up to... this."

(OOC: I know OOC what happened, but they don't know IC. I've read the thread, so no reason to go into any sort of detail.)

"Ambassador Nagy, you are in no position to be interpreting the OMP charter. Having said that, there is nothing in the charter against government-sanctioned privateering during a time of war, merely that state sponsored piracy would be dealt with accordingly.

"Furthermore, the ambassador from Bryn Shander made no such statement. He merely said that no nation would be allowed to hunt pirates in his waters and that so long as no crimes were committed privately-owned ships could come and go as they pleased. Frankly, the Imperium sees no harm in this. Indeed, that is very similar to the Imperium's own policy concerning freighters and other privately owned shipping." The Major replied.

Cassius stood in response to Nagy.

"I do not believe that you are familiar with the concept of a privateer. Allow me to fill you in."

"A privateer is a private individual who has recieved a letter of marque. A letter of marque is basicly permission from a government to attack the government's enemies. These enemies, be they military or comercial in nature, are free game for all the privateers that said government has issued letters of marque to."

"Now, once the privateer has captured enemy shipping, they are to bring the captured property to a friendly port, where it will be audited, recorded, and should it be found to be a legitimate prize, a percentage taken by the government. The rest will be the privateer's to do as he wishes."

"However, illegitimate prizes, will get the privateer little more than a charge of piracy, and most likely a hemp necktie."

"Now, in response to your irresponsible accusations, my government does not condone piracy. We do, however, allow suspected pirates and privateers that are not in bad standing with our government, free passage in our waters so long as they do not engage other ships within our territory. Any ships that are hunting them will treat our waters as a sanctuary, and will refrain from attacking them until they leave our national waters. Failure to do so will get the offending ships labled as pirates, and they will be captured to face trial or sunk."

Ambassador Nagy clears his throat.

"Vaadian law makes no distiction between privateers and pirates, both are illegal. I also believe that my question was directed to the representatives of the Imperium? In Dyelli Beybi, the 'pirates' in question are exactly like the 'privateers' just described here by Bryn Shander, so either the Imperium's deployment in Dyelli Beybi was wholly unnecessary , or the Imperium turns a blind eye to piratical practices by it's allies?"

"Allowing government forces to sieze ships and turn them in for profit during peace time is called piracy. Furthermore, the ships and the crews that committed these acts belonged to the government of Dyellie Beybi. Something which was admitted to." Major Hammoud informed the Vaadian.


[The fact that Bryn Shander is allied to me is not public IC knowledge. Does the OST and the fact that its existance is an IC secret ring a bell?]

The elf's face contorted into a wicked grin as he bowed toward the Vaddian delegates and sat down. "Oh, I am deeply sorry. In was previously unaware that Vaadian Law's jurisdiction extended into my nation. Please continue." Anyone close enough and listening closely could hear a faint snickering coming from Cassius's direction.

OOC: Ambassador Nagy isn't stupid, he can see the double standard, and that would lead him to believe you two are allied.

IC:

Ambassador Nagy shrugged.

"The Representative from Bryn Shander did not make a distinction to peace time or war time privateers, simply that ships were given marques to pirate ships that belong to 'enemies' . If I remember correctly Dyellian naval forces were ordered to seize ships entering Dyellian waters that were unauthorized, i.e. they were seizing ships that for all intents and purposes were 'enemies' because they had violated national waters.

I do not see the difference?"

He then nods to Bryn Shanders delegation.

"I did not mean to imply that Vaadian law extends to Bryn Shander, my apologies. It seems though that you are implying your 'privateer' laws do apply to international waters? or do your privateers only operate within Bryn Shander's territorial waters?"

Ambassador Nagy ignored the Elf's sarcasm.

Again the female from the Pauldustllah delegation stood up.
"i'm afraid i will have to disagree with you on that point Ambassador Nagy." she said, "using your logic, all navies in this region would be considerd pirates for attacking enemy warships...And that includes merchantships. a marque mearly make a ship a temporary warship of that nation."

General Thompson spoke again on his country's position:

"The New Haven Socialist Republic, as do other USR members, operates a large fleet of superhaulers from nation to nation. As our superhaulers are also rigged to enter the service of our navy, they are armed with anti-aircraft and small gun turrets. Since these haulers are under the authority of New Haven State Industries, they are therefore under government control and any attempt to seize or destroy one of these vessels without provocation will not only land a privateer in deep trouble, but it will be considered an act of war on the New Haven Socialist Republic. We usually take the next step, comrade ambassadors, so please refrain from issuing letters of marque against our haulers."

"I must also note that the New Haven Socialist Republic not only claims a defensive perimeter around itself out to 200 nautical miles. We are no longer concerned with maintaining anti-piracy in low-earth orbital space, seeing as attacks on any scale in that region would be incredibly difficult for either side. However, that does not mean that our Sphere of Influence outside of the Sol System is free for anyone to cross without permission."

Ambassador Nagy shakes his head.

"I am asking about the Imperium's policy. The Free Republic has never attacked the warships of any nation lawfully in our region, nor do we intend to. It is a different matter entirely to allow private ships to act under legal pretenses to seize 'enemy' ships. I am trying to clarify why the Imperium deploys naval forces to attempt to stop a nation from enforcing it's maritime laws within it's own territorial waters in one case and then sides with another nation that propses doing the same thing, but with private vessels?

I would prefer that warships be used to deal with enemy ships, not private ships, that poses a problem for every lawful navy here. What if Bryn Shander's privateer's are seizing a ship in international waters, with or without a marque from the government of Bryn Shander that is piracy. Would the Free Republic be committing an act of war to stop such piracy? Does Bryn Shander allow it's privateers to opertae within international waters?

There appears to several seperate issues that arise from a nation that allows private ships to do what should be the job of the coast guard or navy, it seems wholly suspicious .

For instance, if a ship of the Imperial Navy were operating in international waters and they went about seizing a merchant vessel, Vaadian Naval Guard ships coming upon that scene would simply request an explanation and then move along, any explanation pertaining to war, or national security would give our Naval Guard no second thought and the Imperial Navy would not impeded in it's work.

Now, if a private vessel , a privateer, were doing the same thing, Vaadian Naval forces would assist the ship being seized. It gets murkier if say this privateer isn't flying a national flag, or a differing national flag in order to gain the element of suprise on an 'enemy' vessel. How are foreign navies supposed to identify privateers? What action should be taken in response to a privateer? What does Bryn Shander do to assure it's privateer's are not abusing their powers? With the regular navy if we thought a ship was acting beyond it's powers it an easy matter to go up the chain of command and find out what's going on and why, but with a privateer, how do we know? And will our naval forces be held accountable for sinking what appears to be a pirate ship? Would 'enemy' ships trading lawfully with other Haven nations also be targetted, and if so what kind of compensation can that nation expect?

Of course if Bryn Shander's privateer's only operate within their own territorial waters, then there is no issue.

The whole act of a sovereign nation sanctioning pirate and pirate like activities opens up a whole set of legal questions that need to be answered to avoid conflict and misunderstanding.

I would simply like clarification so that the Naval Guard can formulate some acceptable way to deal with the issue."

Ambassador Nagy nods to General Thompson

"It is of course reasonable that an island nation has larger maritime territory, we have no issue with that. I would share General Thompson's concern that at some point merchant ships under the banner of the Haven nation my be targetted by sanctioned 'privateers' , once you start opening legal holes for unreasonable or illegal activities you only encourage it's growth or continuation."

"Let's get off of this remark, whatever it was, made by Bryn Shander about pirates, and get onto what really is the core issue here: Sovereignty. People are up in arms about this because they feel their sovereignty is threatened. As you are all well aware, the Feline government is only grudgingly accepting of the concept of sovereignty, not because of any flaw with the concept, but how it is used. For example, in this case, the idea of sovereignty is being used by some nations to try to hold onto power. So, I must amend my previous statement. The core issue here is not sovereignty, but power.

Now, we must admit that the Scandavians are being hypocritical- no offence intended, hypocrisy is an art and you, my friends, are old masters- in that they frequently flaunt security as a reason for things, while not adopting a treaty similar to what has been proposed in counterproductive to security.

Now, those remarks out of the way, I've just received a copy."

He struggled to open the cover under the burka, but eventually managed.

"Hmm... on this first point, we have no issue here, but, wait... why do Edolia and Scandavian States recieve special treatment? I'm sure there's a valid reason, but if those are regional waters, then a border security of sorts would be preservable under the auspices of the OHS, yes?"

He read on.

"Logical on the second... On the third, three nations? No. Just one would do, as long as that one nation agrees to be partially responsible for anything that ship does. As for the fourth, it makes sense. Nations in Haven can do whatever they want, nations outside have to be poorly armed, and we all have no aggressive desires towards one another, yes?"

He said the last clause looking (as you can barely tell) at the Scandavians.

"And the fifth... makes sense, but as a compromise, how about we say 'in regional waters' on the end? On the treaty as a whole, despite one or two minor flaws, we support it, although we would also support amending it."

Ambassador Nagy rubbed his forehead and sighed.

"You're right, I suppose it is unimportant that a nation wants to have a legal justification for piracy. I stated earlier that this treaty is unacceptable, the maritime territory of the Free Republic is one hundred miles from the coast, without a provision for that there is no way I can sign it.

The other provisions don't appear to be an issue with any of our laws."

Ambassador Nagy was on the verge of doing what all Vadian ambassadors do when their time is being wasted, walking out.

Ambassador Nagy lowered his voice and gave a helpless grin to Ujuy Hagwonak

"Isn't this exactly how Dante described the seventh circle of hell in the Inferno? "

Ujuy grunted at Nagy and then replied in low tones.

“Hmmm, well, it sure seems like a pickle. From our point of view, the naval treaty does seem to have some flaws. I suppose the main issue is if everyone can agree on this idea of “regional waters” and how to best run it. Most interesting development regarding piracy. It seems that Bryn Shander has a policy of issuing letters of marque and Scandavian States defend their practice. How conveniently hypocritical. Remember what the Scandavians said earlier - “no nation would be allowed to hunt pirates in his waters” and yet they feel that their precious OMP allows them to violate our waters.”

A pause.

“We want to make absolutely sure that we can send warships for a port of call in your ports, or any other Haven nation that is friendly to Vrak or other FKC states. If I recall correctly, if a nation has friendly relations with a state of the FKC, then that state is responsible for their behaviour. And I’m quite sure that other nations pay port of calls at other FKC states. Would it be possible for you to bring that point up? As an observer, I'm not authorized by my government to publicly speak at this conference."

Ambassador Nagy nodded to Ujuy, and replied quietly

"If you approach from the SouthWest, there is no issue, to the West the Free Republic is not facing the Haven Straits and ships coming from that direction won't even pass any other Haven states to reach the Free Republic. Your ships would be in our waters before they entered any regional waters. I'll make a point about allied warships."

Ambassador Nagy stood again.

"I am also wondering about allied warships? If allies of Haven states are on their way to ports in Haven, will they be allowed to pass through regional waters? The specifies 'foreign ships' but limits their armaments, what of foreign warships? The Free Republic's Costa-Tula Shipyards supplies several different nations with warships and they would at least need to pick them up in the Free Republic and navigate them home through the straits."

Weinweir von Dörn chewed on his lip, barely containing his urge to order the Rabid Gerbils in the corner to execute every delegate in the room. He shook his head. I’m doing this for the Scarlet Empire, he thought to himself. Collecting his emotions, he picked up his microphone. “I am quite sorry that this treaty is unacceptable,” he said. “However, I would like, as the Iuthian delegate suggested, ask nations to tell what they would like to see in a treaty, as I believe that we can all agree that a treaty is necessary. At this point, I have done my best to create something that can bee acceptable to others. Obviously, I have failed rather miserably. However, I hope that someone else here,” his voice took on a sarcastic edge, “can do better.” He sat down in his chair, glaring out at the assembled delegates.

Ambassador Nagy turned to von Dörn.

"The Free Republic can support this treaty so long as our exclusive maritime zone is maintained as it is. Otherwise I think adding clarification as to who is a pirate and what to do about allied warships would settle other minor questions. I would even have no problem allowing 'privateers' to escape classification as pirates, so long as nations that allow them take full responsibility for their actions, and make sure that the privateers are at least as accountable as regular navy ships.

I don't see any reason this treaty cannot be adjusted in a few minor ways, unless any nation here wants to purposefully obstruct it? I don't think it is in any nations interest to do so."

Cassius snapped his fingers, producing a pen and piece of paper from the mysterious realms of ass space. He looked over the original treaty a few times, quickly jotting something down on the paper. After a minute or so, he stopped writing. After setting the pen down, he produced a small dagger, cutting open the end of his index finger. With the practised speed of someone who had obviously done this before, he traced intricate patterns onto the paper with his own blood. By the time his wound had closed, he was already reaching into a pocket on his coat. A quick search produced a bit of silvery powder, which was sprinkled on the paper. With a final snap of his finger, his act was finished. The result? A copy, sans blood, appeared in front of each delegate.

The paper read as followed:
-----
The Maritime Treaty of Gërburg v2.0
1. The extent of territorial waters for nations lying on the Haven Straits is officially set to fifty kilometers off the coast of any mainland with an area larger than 500 square kilometers or five kilometers off the coast of any island between 500 and 20 square kilometers.

2. All waters within the Haven Straits not considered territorial shall be considered regional waters and subject to the laws and treaties of the region of Haven.

3. No foreign ships shall be allowed to enter regional waters without the permission of at least one nation lying on the Haven Straits.Any foreign ships entering Haven waters must file a voyage plan, indicating their home port, destination, and the route they plan to take.

4. Ships in Haven will be permitted to carry any conventional weaponry they like.

5. Privateers will be required to fly their nation's flag at all times, as well as stop for inspection when requested by any military vessel that their letter of marque does not permit them to engage.
-----

On the screen at the back of the room, the original treaty was also updated.

Cassius stood up once more.

"I've made a few revisions. How does this look?"

Ambassador Nagy glanced over the revisions.

"Section five does not state that nations allowing privateers to operate must bear full responsibility for their actions. Being able to stop them and inspect them does nothing unless there are consequences for their illegal operations. Governments that allow privateers will not be likely to police their actions unless there are consequences for not doing so."


OOC: ass space? What are you, ten?

"Any Private Ship flown under the flag of Pauldustllah sailing in non terrortoial waters will NOT submit to an inspection from ANY nation unless said nation requests permission from the goverment." a voice from the Pauldustllah delegation said. "furthermore any vessel attempting to inspect a ship flying under the Ensign of Pauldustllah, would have to use Pauldustllah maritime codes of conduct."

Emil Farvus leaned forward irritably. He had one major question that determined whether he cared about most of these proceedings.

"Is the sea lying offshore eastern Goobergunchia considered part of the Haven Straits?"

"Ambassador Nagy, perhaps you are not aware that a ship flying the flag of a nation is responsible to the laws and codes of conduct that the ensign a ship flies represents. That is as true of any ship, privateer or no. I will also note that any nation that issues a letter of marquee treats the issuee and his or her boat to be naval auxiliary, thus an attack upon such a ship while it is going about its duties is considered an act of war." Hammoud informed the Vaadian.

Then he turned to the Cat, "The Imperium does not much care for the security of the nations of this region who are not themselves allied to the Imperium. In our opinion, not only is regional security a misnomer now that the UnAPS is gone, but it is a farce.

"However, I must say that I object as well to any nation recieving special treatment in this treaty. It is counter-productive to the Imperium's foreign relations that the Imperium is almost singled out as special. Such is not necessary, our waters are outlined such as they are because we have territory with 200 kilometers of the outline of our waters, thus we do not need nor request any special notation."

The Maritime Treaty of Gërburg

1. All nations within Haven shall be required to set definite limits for their territorial waters, which shall be respected and recognized by all other nations in the region. No nation shall set maritime boundaries extending more than two hundred kilometers the coast of any landmass, and no islands smaller than five hundred square kilometers shall extend maritime boundaries by more than fifty kilometers. Atolls and islands smaller than ten square kilometers shall not extend territoriality to their surrounding ocean area.
2. All waters within the Haven Straits not considered territorial shall be considered regional waters and subject to the laws and treaties of the region of Haven.

3. No foreign ships shall be allowed to enter regional waters without the permission of at least one nation lying on the Haven Straits. No foreign warships shall maintain a presence inside Haven waters and shall be restricted to basing in territorial waters only. Foreign warships that use the Haven Straits for navigational purposes shall be required to inform all Haven governments of their route and maintain a strait course.

4. Any foreign non-military ship that carries guns with ranges above twenty kilometers shall be considered warships and subject to rules and regulations accordingly.

5. Privateers will be required to fly their nation's flag at all times, as well as stop for inspection when requested by any military vessel that their letter of marque does not permit them to engage. Issuing a letter of marque against a foreign nation shall be considered an act of war. If such inspections lead to seizure of the ship, the seizing military vessel must inform the government of the nation in which the privateer ship is registered for negotiations. No privateer shall be held without trial. The issuing of a letter of marque against a foreign nation shall be considered an act of war.

<<OOC: And no, Goober. You aren't on the Haven Straits.>>

Ambassador Nagy nods to Hammoud.

"Yes I do understand that, but I would prefer it spelled out implicitly (as it is now) to avoid any possible misunderstanding. I simply want it to be as clear as possible, there is no harm in that, is there?"

After viewing the Edolian changes.

"This is acceptable. I can sign this."

OOC: but only if it hasn't come out of anyone's ass.............

The Major smiled and said, "Hmm, it would appear that the second time is the charm. There seems to be nothing that we can object to in here, which means that more than likely the Imperium will sign this."

Karina had done nothing but watch and make note, Lenington the same. Not a waste of time being there, however, but the Freethinker delegates often conducted negiotiations without a word. The Treaty would do, and, to put it bluntly, could be ignored if needed.

OOC: Just so y'all can see here.

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=7855937#post7855937

Far away from the bustle of Earth, the Mayoral Council of the Colony of Lunar Destiny discusses the recent developments at the Haven Summit:
Chairman: "It would be unwise for our young nation to become entangled in the affairs of Earth."
Councilor: "But this could be an opportunity for us to gain prestige on the world stage. With added prestige comes greater leverage against the other nations of our sphere."
Vice-Chairwoman: "It is folly to think that in such a short time we might wield any sway over the Moon. We are better here set apart."
Chairman: "We will quietly develop ourselves, ignoring the wars and troubles of others until we are strong internally. A vote?"
Vice.: All opposed to the resolution to send an observer to the Haven Summit..."
The vote tallied 6 opposed, 2 in favor. Lunar Destiny quietly expands the colony, gathering more resources and advancing lunar technology.

"The New Haven Socialist Republic will sign this document, and I am authorized to sign the treaty until it can be ratified by our parliament," General Thompson noted.

"We are in favor of this." Bartholomew muttered while trying to put away the paper as a memento of the sheer oddity of the Congress in a cargo pocket he had put on the Burka.

"Alright, we are not fucking wearing these things tommorow." he whispered over to his fellow Cats.

"Pauldustllah will sign this docuement." the Female ambassadoir said. "provided that all citizens that are detained are given due process."
Meanwhile a member of the delegation handed a note bearing the imperial seal, to the Scandinavian Delegation

I have a matter of importance to discuss with you, I would like to know and acceptable time to call on you tonight?

"Well, with that minor matter attended to, I propose we move onto the UnAPS SDI system. What becomes of it now? We propose the following agreement."

The earlier proposed agreement popped up on the screens.

"As you know, Feline has had its own SDI system from before the UnAPS SDI integrated fully by computer. (OOC: If any other country does, he mentioned it, and the treaty does. Just tell me so I can edit it for you.) The treaty preserves that. On the matter of the USR control, the USR is currently the largest power bloc in Haven, and, even though we may have minor differences, we trust Edolia, the Island States, and Hattia.

Well? Comments?"

In the meantime Asiya had recieved a message in the meantime, letting her know the Lien had arrived in New Copenhagen and that the preparations for the SDI move had been finished. Taking a deep breath and making sure that she once again looked proper, the Duchess entered the hall. As she walked she spoke in a loud and clear voice, "Yes, I believe I have something to say. The Imperium does not trust these nations with its defence and short of a binding mutual defense agreement never will. Nor will we trust any nation that is not allied to the Imperium with its defence, and even in such a case the Imperium itself would carry most of the weight.

"To that end, I have been authorized to tell you that the Imperium has withdrawn its satellites from the Haven Defense Initiative program. Furthermore, with their authorization, the Imperium has also withdrawn the satellites of seven other nations from the HDI. Those satellites and other defense systems are now subordinated only to the Imperium's primary control link and those in Edolia and Feline have been locked out. We eight nations have, among other things, formed our own private SDI system that will not contribute to the defense of any other nation but we eight.

"Also, I do not know of the number of total satellites withdrawn by all eight nations, but the Imperium's number 144 satellites and 1,296 ground-based missiles withdrawn from the HDI program."

Now, she smiled almost cheerfully and the look on her face almost challenged the Cat to say anything about it.

Ambassador Nagy stood

"And what nations might those be?"

Mark smiled, "Well, it's good to see we can find some common ground afterall." he commented with a more upbeat tone. "Iuthia agrees to the terms which Edolia agrees to as for perposes of territory in Haven, our outpost is surrounded by Edolian waters."

Having finished on the matter, he moved towards the latest subject put forth by Bartholomew. Iuthia's position was generally along side Edolia's when concerning Haven issues as it's land was pretty much in the heart of their territory and was more or less subject to their laws.

"We feel we could trust the USR with UnAPS's SDI system, though we aren't really in the position to really have much say on the matter."

The Edolian delegate smiled as he passed an official version of the document around the room. With the signatures of most of the delegates at the conference, it looked like the Treaty of Gërburg had become law. Other delegates could still sign it when they decided to, however.

Signatory Nations
Iuthia
Ilek-Vaad
Scandavian States
Pauldustllah
Feline
The New Haven Socialist Republic
Barentsburg
The Freethinkers
Bryn Shander

(Did I miss anyone?)

OOC: You may as well add me to that list. It seems agreeable enough.

"Of course that is your right." said Bartholomew curtly.

"But unless these eight nations will war with the rest of Haven, which is highly unlikely, it is in your best interest to remain part of the SDI. Indeed, even if, hypothetically you do, which a nation with which other nations were allied with for so long such as yourself would not want to do, a single SDI system could ensure no ICBMS are used. And that is something we all desire."

“The Scarlet Empire doesn’t really see a need for the USR to control the SDI system, although we would have no problem doing so. Rather, we feel that the best solution would be for a new organization, run out of the Organization of Haven States to take control of the shield. Such an organization, independent of nations in the region, but run by a board of directors from all nations, would help to maintain peace, and would also protect the region from nuclear attack. This treaty would also allow nations that aren’t on the best of terms to work together and contribute to common goals. No one wants nuclear war in Haven, and Edölia for one, will use its SDI system to protect all nations in Haven from attack.”
Weinweir von Dörn
Delegate from Edölia to the Haven Congress

Asiya glared at Nagy, "Ambassador, you will know that information when either I decide to reveal it or one of those eight nations reveal themselves. Until that time, realize you have no right to that information and the only nations who will have that information, besides the group of nations you asked about, are those that have a Primary Control Link and wish to look. You will find, Ambassador, that Ilek-Vaad is not one of those nations."

Turning to the Cat she replied, "The Imperium also does not wish to see nuclear weapons fly, but we believe the best deterrent to that is to make sure that all nations in Haven know the consequences of using weapons of mass destruction. As for the satellite systems, again I am speaking for my nation only, our satellites are dual-use, that is they can be offensive or defensive systems. We will not be part of a communal system where there is no mutual defense pact between the nations involved. Also, we will not contribute to the defense of nations who we do not choose to be allies with; if some nation outside of the group of eight provokes a nuclear attack it is no business of the Imperium and we won't lift a finger to stop it."

Asiya smiled slightly, "Of course, that does not stop the other remaining nations from signing such a treaty. It also does not stop nations from within our group from sending a control release query to the Imperium's primary control link, a request we will grant unless we feel that the resulting interference is a direct threat to one or more of the nations in our group."

"By the way, Ambassador von Dorn, once this issue is settled I'd like to have the floor. I think that perhaps it would be rude to wait overlong to satiate Nagy's thirst for knowledge. Don't you agreee?" Asiya asked while adopting a slightly sarcastic smile.

<<OOC: Wouldn't we know which satellites are no longer part of the communal system and by extension, which nations withdrew their satellites? It strikes me that we would...>>

Ambassador Nagy looked up from his notes.

"I'm in no hurry, you can tell us now, later, meh."

He returned to diligently preparing some notes.

[A secondary control link for any one country can only access the sats belonging to that independantly of the primary control link. Like Asiya said, only nations with primary control links are going to notice which nations pulled their SDIs.]

(OOC: Define the difference between a primary and a secondary, power over the system-wise, and what countries would have or have had the primary controls.)

"What I am saying is something slightly short of a MDP. Mutual protection, but not mutual defence. All country would be required to do would be to stop a nuclear weapon with their SDI, not engage in any further war. It is in all of our best interests, due to the radiation spreading out from nuclear explosions, to enter into such a pact.

We too are curious as to what nations these are. We eagerly await your taking the floor after this issue is settled." He, for once, sincerely meant the last comment.

[Primary control links are those that can take over the control of the entire sysem, regardless of who those satellites belong to. You, me, and Edolia are the only ones with such links. Every other nation in Haven has a secondary control link, one that subordinates national assets only.]

(OOC: So I know who they are? Could you give them to me, then?)

OOC: Sorry about the delay...

IC:

James reached for the treaty in a spare moment and added his signature to the list. He added a note to the Edolians, <i> We may have to withdraw this endorsement. We will have to ask Le Senat for advice and consent at a later date as it involves a few changes to our national law. </i>


Torin, the millitary expert, stood to speak, "I don't beleive that any sort of war should be necissary here. If the systems in question were controlled by the individual nations before the original treaty, and that treaty is no longer in effect, we beleive that by de facto they revert to control by the original nation. It is therefore their sovereign right to pull them from the system and refuse to pledge them to a new treaty. We consider this a non-issue. However, the Commonwealth in good faith must take the same position. We cannot allow our defensive resources to be controlled by or used by any nation we do not have a pact of mutual protection with. We will not sign any agreement forcing us to do otherwise."

OOC: score another siggy for your list of nations signing your newest treaty...

The Allanean representative rises.

“As an authorized representative of the United States, I hereby do sign this Maritime Treaty of Gerburg, by the authority vested in me by Congress and the President. This signature is provisional up until the time the treaty is ratified or rejected by the Congress and Senate of the United States. Freedom lives.”

[Allanea, since you are not in Haven you have no call to sign this treaty.]

[Allanea, since you are not in Haven you have no call to sign this treaty.]

Observe Hestonia.

Farvus rose again. "As the Goobergunchian Secretary of State, I sign this treaty on behalf of the Liberal Unitary Republic and its dependencies. It will have to be ratified by both the Goobergunchian High Council and the governing body of -The Prophet- before it is binding upon our respective areas."

He pulled out his violet pen and signed the treaty.