NationStates Jolt Archive


ATTN. space nations: preview Mirfakan military. (IC-related OOC)

Mirfak
17-12-2004, 04:10
This thread is for anyone who wishes to to read, comment on, ask about, or object to my concept for the Mirfakan military which I am in the process of conceptualizing. Please review my ideas and give me feedback, including godmodding accusations.

Mirfakan Star Forces (Labule):
Basis: Crest/Banner of the Stars, Banner of the Stars II, Sekai Trilogy.
Ships: Most vessels (especially combat vessels) to be of patrol size or larger. Designs primarily to come from the basis sources.
Weapons: Basic laser cannons (vok lanyui) for primarily defensive purposes, heavy antiproton cannons (lenyujui) for offensive energy attacks, space/time mines (hoksas) for explosive attacks (comparable to torpedoes/missiles).
Use: Vok lanyui and lenyujui cannot be used from plane space against targets in either non-plane space or in seperate space/time bubbles in plane space, or from normal space against targets not in normal space. They also have range limited to a few thousand kilometers. Hoksas are the overall most powerful of the Labule's ship-to-ship weapons, and can generate their own space/time bubbles to attack any target in plane or normal space and pass through sords to attack targets in one from the other. They are very maneuverable and have long range (1-3 billion kilometers in normal space, larger in plane space), but have no armor or shields, making them easy to destroy with a a single hit from all but the weakest ship-to-ship weaponry. They are difficult to target though, especially with torpedoes. Well-designed missiles and energy weapons with above-average targeting systems can hit them, though the best and most reliable way to destroy a hoksa is with another hoksa.
Defenses: Energy shields primarily designed to absorb and/or refract energy weapons, limited function against explosive weapons (torpedoes/missiles/mines). Hull armor. Accurate laser cannons can destroy missiles/torpedoes/mines, but can be overwhelmed by large numbers of projectiles. Hoksas can also be used defensively against other mines, missiles, or torpedoes, but each ship's limited supply forces a compromise between the offensive and defensive use of their hoksa complement.
Engines: Standard sublight ion engines.
FTL: Plane space. Space/time bubble generator in ships allows for plane space travel, with entry and exit through naturally-occuring portals in space (sords), usually in areas of gravity anomolies (star systems, black holes, etc.). Very high potential speed (intergalactic ability), but limited exit points. May add secondary FTL such as warp drive later to supplement.
Maneuverability: Varies on size. Smaller ships have great maneuvering power both in plane space and normal space, but larger ships tend to be quite difficult to maneuver, especially in normal space.
Technology: Slightly below galactic standards. Manual controls and systems tend to be fairly basic, though there is some AI capability in most ships. Very basic replicators. No nanotechnology. No molecular transporters. Exception to technology rule is neural control interfaces, which exist on most craft to simplify operation and minimize crew requirements.
Power: Matter/Anti-matter fuel reaction. Though there is refined substance fuel that is standard, most material can be used as a fair substitute. Anti-substance fuel must be specially produced and refined at special facilities however.

Mirfakan Planetary Forces (Dasbule):
Basis: Postmodern United States armed forces.
General forces: Comparable to modern-day armies in first-world nations, with energy weapon technology. Vests to provide limited protection from bullets/energy guns, sidearms, grenades, radios, etc.
Special forces: Postmodern. Full-body EV/armor suits that mask heat signature and lifesigns, closed-communication systems, light and heavy sidearms, mission-specific equipment, etc.
Ground units: Postmodern tanks, artillery, armored PTCs, etc.
Air units: Postmodern, primarily fighters, some bombers.
Sea units: Postmodern, surface and submarine.
Mobility: Ground units can be transported to other planets, but air and sea units are for the most part planetbound.
Support: Orbital bombardment of planetary targets with Labule hoksas.
Mirfak
17-12-2004, 08:44
Bump.
The Fedral Union
17-12-2004, 13:42
Hmm intresting ..
Mirfak
17-12-2004, 19:37
Bump. Comments? Questions? Problems?
Mirfak
18-12-2004, 00:52
Anyone?
The Fedral Union
18-12-2004, 15:05
How big is your overall fleet?
Mirfak
18-12-2004, 18:18
It will be built up over time. I'm starting with the ragtag space fleet of escorts and run-down frigates. Now that the planet is united under a single government, I'll be commissioning shipbuilding facilities and introduce the new fleet one ship at a time. I'm not sure how big the fleet will get. It depends on how our foreign policy shapes up. I expect it will include between 200 and 500 combat vessels by the time the first building period has finished.
Five Civilized Nations
18-12-2004, 18:26
Hmm... At this point you're GDP and population does not warrant you having a space fleet... Once you've grown to at least half a billion, come back and RP in space-tech... That way, you won't be ignnored by some people...
Mirfak
18-12-2004, 18:42
I probably won't be launching the military fleet until I've gotten to about 100 million. As for me not having any fleet at all, it's too late for that. Mirfak has a lot of cargo vessels and light escort craft. Most of them are fairly primitive, bad copies of old Xanthalian technology. It's a small, economically poor nation, but it's not totally isolated on its little planet. I needed to give a basis for some interaction so I'm not completely bored while my population grows.
The Fedral Union
18-12-2004, 19:57
Hmm... At this point you're GDP and population does not warrant you having a space fleet... Once you've grown to at least half a billion, come back and RP in space-tech... That way, you won't be ignnored by some people...

FCN... *Sighs* i doubt he will be ignored if he has a reasonable fleet its fine ... I’ve known nations like 5 mill having a few ships .. FCN his ships are fine .. you don’t have to be OMFG you need 500 mill to start rping space tech true I started rping space tech around 700 mil but many nations rp space tech at 10 mill or 5 mill as long as they don’t god mode its fine .
Endless Crimes
18-12-2004, 20:11
Hmm... At this point you're GDP and population does not warrant you having a space fleet... Once you've grown to at least half a billion, come back and RP in space-tech... That way, you won't be ignnored by some people...I sincerely doubt that he, or anyone, would mind being ignored by retards claiming that arbitrary benchmarks are necessary to RP $Feature (Usually in order to satisfy their own elitist egos or to gain some random advantage in competitive RP). Really, no loss.

Because said benchmarks do not exist.
Penguenia
18-12-2004, 20:12
Hmm, another nation based at least partially off Seikai, interesting (there is one other than myself that I know of :P). Good luck when you do fully introduce yourself into the intergalactic scene, your basis looks fine, although it's more background than any useless statistics that so many people care about.
Midlonia
18-12-2004, 20:16
Hmm... At this point you're GDP and population does not warrant you having a space fleet... Once you've grown to at least half a billion, come back and RP in space-tech... That way, you won't be ignnored by some people...
How about you go away, back to II, where you obviously belong with this post? :P
The Fedral Union
18-12-2004, 20:17
I sincerely doubt that he, or anyone, would mind being ignored by retards claiming that arbitrary benchmarks are necessary to RP $Feature (Usually in order to satisfy their own elitist egos or to gain some random advantage in competitive RP). Really, no loss.

Because said benchmarks do not exist.


LMAO
Bulls eye!
Five Civilized Nations
18-12-2004, 20:29
Its not really an arbitrary benchmarks, but a something suggested. The fact of the matter is how can a nation with barely 100 million in population with a pitiful GDP build massive space ships and afford the technology that goes with it. If you actually had common sense, you'll understand that its impossible...

Anyways, before I start getting pissed, off, I'm gone from this thread...
Iuthia
18-12-2004, 20:33
Dear sir/madam,

We have been informed that your nation only has sixteen million people living in it's population centres, a figure which has been deemed by one Five Civilized Nations to be to small to fully support a future technology nation at this period of time. Other such authorities on these matters will also confirm that your nation is too small to support weapons of mass destruction or any interesting or relatively fun technology.

These conditions will remain until you have expanded your population to a reasonable one hundren million for weapons of mass destruction (modern technology only) and a further four hundred million for future technology including faster then light travel.

Please note that however good your roleplaying actually is, or your reasoning for having either technologies will not be accepted by such authorities until the time you have expanded your population sufficiantly. This is a game of numbers, not co-operative story telling.

Any attempts to argue that a small nation could reasonably have these technologies through roleplaying, such as having a colony or being given the technology are unreasonable given that you are a newbie. Only large nations can have good technology.

Nevermind that your concept will be shit upon because your not big enough to start with, so actually becoming a future tech nation requires a waiting period of several months.

Thanks for your attention, we look forward to RPing with you when you are of suitable size.

Thanks,

Pedantic Arseholes of the Nationstates Community.
The Fedral Union
18-12-2004, 20:33
Its not really an arbitrary benchmarks, but a something suggested. The fact of the matter is how can a nation with barely 100 million in population with a pitiful GDP build massive space ships and afford the technology that goes with it. If you actually had common sense, you'll understand that its impossible...

Anyways, before I start getting pissed, off, I'm gone from this thread...

We do have common sense just because we don’t fallow the according to OFMG 1337 5CN rule book doesn’t mean we don’t … he can have 500 ships its possible .. its small enough most of NS cant even have space craft .. I mean its not possible because of our GDP and economies. So we can rp what ever we want your working to much on stupid stats , stats ,stats, and not enough on rp .. so I suggest you back off .. leetist
Five Civilized Nations
18-12-2004, 20:38
TFU, if you can actually RP I would accept what you said, but you can't. So please stop offering bad advice.

I will accept small nations RPing with space forces and future technology if they can actually RP it. I don't have anything against it. But I have long declared anathema all nations that even with large populations godmod and wank, i.e. Whittier (who insists on RPing with his old national population, which was deleted by the moderators), TFU (who claims to have a population of 2 trillion!?! That is just stupid...), Unified Sith (who can't RP beyond godmodding and accusing other innocent people of godmodding), among others...
The Fedral Union
18-12-2004, 20:42
TFU, if you can actually RP I would accept what you said, but you can't. So please stop offering bad advice.

I will accept small nations RPing with space forces and future technology if they can actually RP it. I don't have anything against it. But I have long declared anathema all nations that even with large populations godmod and wank, i.e. Whittier (who insists on RPing with his old national population, which was deleted by the moderators), TFU (who claims to have a population of 2 trillion!?! That is just stupid...), Unified Sith (who can't RP beyond godmodding and accusing other innocent people of godmodding), among others...

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=381323&page=1&pp=15
Read that you elitist idiot if you bothered to read any of my posts or advice you would know I recanted that and not only that you would under stand what smart people were actually trying to say .. ohh and the part about me not being able to rp.. looks who’s talking my 1337ist .. stop acting like you know everything your making a damn fool out of your self .... you have no right to impost your freaking idea of rp on some one else its called freeform …
Five Civilized Nations
18-12-2004, 20:45
Still 50 billion!?! Does anyone on NS claim such a high number!?! You are still a godmodder, TFU.

You are definitely an idiot.

I will not further sully myself with any connection to you TFU. Consider my position as a well-wisher nullified indefinitely. You are hereby reclassified as an enemy with all out I.G.N.O.R.E. in full effect.

Good day.
The Fedral Union
18-12-2004, 20:46
Still 50 billion!?! Does anyone on NS claim such a high number!?! You are still a godmodder, TFU.

You are definitely an idiot.

I will not further sully myself with any connection to you TFU. Consider my position as a well-wisher nullified indefinitely. You are hereby reclassified as an enemy with all out I.G.N.O.R.E. in full effect.

Good day.
ignore if you want i don’t rp with the likes of 1337ist and your paying no attention to my posts, witch means your argument is falling apart and you don’t like it go cry to your mama mr I ignore every thing that doesn’t go my way
Five Civilized Nations
18-12-2004, 20:48
Um... Actually you're going to be the only one on my I.G.N.O.R.E. list. I'm pretty lenient about it and you're the only one to ever grace its "hallowed" halls... Even Unified Sith doesn't have that honor and he's also a godmodder...
Foolish Pesants
18-12-2004, 20:48
In truth, Mirfak here can RP whatever Mirfak can think up, no matter how whiney other more insicure nations would care to say. If they want to RP being in space from the get-go then there's absolutly NOTHING to stop them. If they choose to declare their space ships are made of wet cardboard and its better than any wank material ever thought up before then thats whats it is. Admittidly wet cardboard isn't that great but if they can RP it well then I see no reason not to accept it so long as they can do so in a reasonable manner.

But hey, I'm not an arsehole so I don't know anything about these nation size guidelines.
The Fedral Union
18-12-2004, 20:50
Um... Actually you're going to be the only one on my I.G.N.O.R.E. list. I'm pretty lenient about it and you're the only one to ever grace its halls... Even Unified Sith doesn't have that honor and he's also a godmodder...
*cough *whaaa *cough whaaa! .. go cry to some one who cares I frankly don’t your not even reading any peoples advice or post, not even mine . I suggest you leave this thread I don’t want to spam it more with ooc argument you think every thing is god mode that’s what you type of people live off of , if you cant be better . Its god mode .. back off.

I now apologize to the author of this thread for my some what flamebaity argument in it
Five Civilized Nations
18-12-2004, 20:52
In truth, Mirfak here can RP whatever Mirfak can think up, no matter how whiney other more insicure nations would care to say. If they want to RP being in space from the get-go then there's absolutly NOTHING to stop them. If they choose to declare their space ships are made of wet cardboard and its better than any wank material ever thought up before then thats whats it is. Admittidly wet cardboard isn't that great but if they can RP it well then I see no reason not to accept it so long as they can do so in a reasonable manner.

But hey, I'm not an arsehole so I don't know anything about these nation size guidelines.

I would accept anything as long as it is RPed correctly, although other nations/people might not. However in TFU's case, he can't RP without godmodding or crying foul.
Iuthia
18-12-2004, 20:54
I now apologize to the author of this thread for my some what flamebaity argument in it

Then why not stop? Both you and Five Civilised Nations have taken this thread and turned it into an arguement over why they ignore one another. It's not the place to do it. I would suggest just leaving it where it is or taking it to MSN.
Five Civilized Nations
18-12-2004, 20:59
You're right Iuthia... I left my impatience and exasperation get the best of me. But I've just blocked TFU on all my IMs... From herein on, there is no point for me to talk with TFU or interact in any way...

*shrugs*

Besides, Iuthia, what is your point of view on the matter of TFU and his fifty billion?
Gurguvungunit
18-12-2004, 21:06
I'm with 5CN, Mirfak probably can't posess such a space fleet. This happens to be stated in a sticky called What Godmoding Is (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=367578)


3) Example: A 2 day old nation with a population of 6 million posts "My 6 billion man army invades u with NUKES!!!!1"

Why this is Godmoding: Okay, little guy nations, I know you're anxious to start throwing your weight around, but let's be honest; you are piddling nothings when you first start out in the world. To get specific with the logistics of your military, check this thread out: What Logistics Is
Also, check this thread out to get examples of how other nations in real life deal with their logistics: Economy, Militaries, and Invasions - More things to know

Note: Nothing stops you registering a group of nations and RPing each as a different but allied entity, or any other reasonable method of levelling the playing field you can come up with. Age should NOT bring with it arbitary RP advantage.


I know that the situation isn't quite the same, but think about it. Nations today, with upwards of 300 million inhabitants do not posess space fleets. Hell, they don't even have extrasolar technology. Is it really reasonable to expect that a nation with only 16 million can have an armed starship? I'm trying not to sound too patrician, here, but seriously. Think about it for a moment.

Counterpoint, I think that Mirfak did a good job with asking for input, rather than committing the common newb error of simply declaring his intentions. To me, that's a sign of a good role player. I look forward to dealing with you in the future.

The Horribly Patrician States of Gurguvungunit
Iuthia
18-12-2004, 21:07
It's not really for discussion in this thread, which isn't about The Fedral Union, it's about this Mirfak and his technology.

However, I may as well answer it to some extent because it's the same subject as you telling him he can't RP future technology because he can't support it...

In case you haven't noticed, we are in a freeform environment where players can roleplay anything they like, including larger then listed populations. However, just because they want to roleplay that doesn't mean you or I have to accept it. Personally when TFU RPs with me I would tell him that I don't acknowledge his space empires size (which is sized to RP with his FT friends who do the same) so he would reduce that figure for the perposes of RPing with me or we just don't RP.

Basically you can RP whatever you like and justify it however you please, if you don't justify it well then people will use their right not to accept it, seeing as you can't force them to accept what you claim. Being realistic is in your interests, but it's not needed.

Most reasonable RPers don't mind small nations having high technology, if they are interesting then we will RP with them anyways... it's not a matter of being big enough, it's a matter being able to explain it to people so they want to RP with it.
The WIck
18-12-2004, 21:10
since when does a thread that was supposed help a new player with his navy turn into a flame on TFU thread.

TFU raises a good point, that population should not effect one's ability to RP in future tech, so long as its reasonable. For starters by even RPing future tech one writes of any constraints that "population" holds. You are RPing fake things on make believe worlds with technology that to begin with is infeasible.

I will RP with anyone no matter population size as long as they RP fairly on how he regards his make believe nation.

I find it repulsive that some nations out there do not do the same because of "population".

Iuthia is right when he saysTHis is FREE-FORM RP. It is all about the story, the characters and people that comprise our nations, it is not about the 2000 ISD fleets or the 30000 tomahawk cruise missiles, or even nukes. Even Unified SIth has realized this...
Iuthia
18-12-2004, 21:11
Is it really reasonable to expect that a nation with only 16 million can have an armed starship? I'm trying not to sound too patrician, here, but seriously. Think about it for a moment.

I can think of several reasons. Yes, they can't be a world super power or have a significant number of ships (unless someone was to accept that fact, because hey, sometimes people just want to RP reguardless of population) but they can justify it with... roleplay.

Please refer again to this post, you clearly missed the point.

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7738468&postcount=16
Central Facehuggeria
18-12-2004, 21:11
My opinion is that if Mirfak can explain how he's got this stuff in an interesting and well RPed way, it's fine. If he just goes the n00b route and says "I've got this and this and this" then it should be ignored until he has the population to make all this stuff.
Iuthia
18-12-2004, 21:13
Iuthia it is a shame that you think this is a game about numbers, in my opinion that thought sullies everything this game stands for. THis is FREE-FORM RP. It is all about the story, the characters and people that comprise our nations, it is not about the 2000 ISD fleets or the 30000 tomahawk cruise missiles, or even nukes. Even Unified SIth has realized this...its a shame you have not. As a result I would rather RP with this 16 million nation than with yours any day.

*Watches the sarcasm of said post fly by this players ears...*

Really... perhaps next time I should put a huge sign on my post pointing out the irony and sarcasm. Nevermind the arguement just above your post which further goes to explain my actual point of view.
The WIck
18-12-2004, 21:19
you know thats why sarcasm tags help....my finals addeled mine did mistake that and i read your post there after...

As such i fixed mine where i put my foot square in my mouth, i can admit when im flat wrong.

However the other notions in my reply i do beilive in,

begs for forgivness, but you can see if you didnt see the sarcasm how harsh that post sounded lol that was probably the point of it.
Der Angst
18-12-2004, 21:24
I'm with 5CN, Mirfak probably can't posess such a space fleet. This happens to be stated in a sticky called What Godmoding Is (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=367578)

I know that the situation isn't quite the same, but think about it. Nations today, with upwards of 300 million inhabitants do not posess space fleets. Hell, they don't even have extrasolar technology. Is it really reasonable to expect that a nation with only 16 million can have an armed starship? I'm trying not to sound too patrician, here, but seriously. Think about it for a moment.Lesse... Possible ways:

1. Small High Tech Utopia, based on $Backstory resulting in its (Numerically limited, but qualitatively high) capacities. Think Singapore.

2. Colony of $Fallen_Empire, struggling to get up. Lots of material, maintenance problems, slowly catching up. Think Ukraine 1991.

3. Colonists from some random system, generations away from home, trying to build a presence in a new, unknown environment. I happen to take part in a thread of such a nation, right now.

4. An infinite number of other possibilities.

So, quite frankly: Stuff it.
Iuthia
18-12-2004, 21:26
Begs for forgivness, but you can see if you didnt see the sarcasm how harsh that post sounded lol that was probably the point of it.

I expected the "Pedentic Arseholes of Nationstates" to be a big clue.

Nevermind, at least you understand now.
Mirfak
18-12-2004, 21:57
*Holds up a tentative finger.*

Um, excuse me. I appreciate the diversity of opinion here, but as other reasonable voices have said, an argument is not needed. As a general response to the last page of posts, please note that Mirfak has been around and inhabited for several hundred years. It's economy is not excellent, but it's not doing poorly either. The Mirfakan population is so low because it has been enduring over two centuries of perpetual warfare. That's what the war of planetary reunification I just finished going through over here (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=380756) was about. Also note that, because it has been an outworld for four centuries and independent for two, it has quite a history. Since most of its profits have been from offworld trading in the past, a space fleet was necessary, but due to the anarchic nature of Mirfak and their lack of sufficient funds and diplomatic ability to buy offworld ships, they were forced to build their own vessels based of what little knowledge was left of space travel by the former socialist republic that controlled Mirfak two hundred years ago. Thus came to be the ragtag fleet of very basic unadvanced cargo ships, escort craft, and frigates Mirfak has now. Now though, since the planet has finally been reunified, they are finally able to start putting together the infrastructure necessary to build more advanced ships. As noted previously, these are now only in the earliest stages of planning. Though I do not anticipate waiting until Mirfak reaches 500,000,000 to start launching the fleet, it will take a while (circa 100,000,000 pop.). Is that a reasonable explanation? As it is my goal to avoid being ignored by as many people as possible, I launched this thread to present my concepts for review. At the risk of sounding like an ass myself, I want to give those of you who have commented on my concepts honestly my thanks and tell those of you who are here to have a war of words to go away.
Mirfak
19-12-2004, 01:53
Anyone else for comments or questions?
Santa Barbara
19-12-2004, 03:07
Hmm, well, I look forward to reading some of your RPs.

As much as I count myself among the admittedly elitist (how can you play a game for years on end, watching the tens of thousands of your peers who did fade away from this online world, replaced by tens of thousands of new ones each week?day? and not feel the slightest bit elitist? it's either that or feel like an obsessive geek and most people prefer pride over humility, myself included) members of the NS community, I have to say that it isn't always feasible to wait until hitting benchmark gameplay states to RP something. And old nations pose a problem with this too - e.g, if I wanted to have my gameplay reflect a pacifist or anticapitalist policy change in my RP nation (not that I would), it would be a long, long time before that tax rate started to go up or that defense spending start dropping...
Mirfak
19-12-2004, 03:14
To all: My first really interactive RP thread has just started here (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=382624). Feel free to join in if you would like.
Mirfak
19-12-2004, 05:31
Final bump.
Five Civilized Nations
19-12-2004, 20:26
Just one question. What is your relation to Xanthal?
Mirfak
20-12-2004, 00:52
Mirfak was once a part of Xanthal. That is it's long-distance historical background. There is little trace of Xanthal left in Mirfak however. Two hundred years of war and anarchy will do that. Mirfak has no significant Xanthalian influences, be they linguistic, cultural, technological, or societal.