NationStates Jolt Archive

Hokay, folks. Now I know damn well lots of you are aware of the nifty features we have on these forums, but it seems old habits die hard. I'm sure I'm not the only one who winces now and then seeing a nice bit of rp cluttered up with 'tag' bits and ginormous sigs that take up six times more space than said tag. Now, the sigs well - that's a matter of personal taste and all I suppose, so I shan't go there. However, the tags ... people, you don't need to do that.

Up at the top of these lovely pages are some tabs - you may have noticed them under the NationStates icon bar. Profile, Register, Calendar, Members, F.A.Q., Search, Home.

Click on that lovely Profile one, and take a gander. There is this wonderful option called 'subscription' that can be invaluable in organizing your reading/posting efforts - especially for those of you who are very active, like to keep tabs on many different things, etc.

At the top of each thread you open, there are *gasp* Thread Tools. This, oddly enough, is a very simple way of subscribing to these threads that you for one reason or other wish to keep track of. Not only that but (a shock, I know) you can ORGANIZE all these threads into separate folders for easy perusal.

Take for example this: Alliance folder, Reading Only folder, Old Reference folder, Special Interest folder. Do you begin to see how convenient such tools can be? Not only that, but it keeps the threads nice, neat, and clean, saving folks from having to scroll past needless 'tag' posts and avoiding irritation at getting all excited to see what's happening next, only to be disappointed when said post IS only a lame tag.

Not only can all this convenience be yours, but for those of you with exceptionally busy schedules, you can request notification via email when certain threads are updated, saving you the effort of having to log in and go through all the hoops to check if you don't wish to. Shock and awe, neh?

Yes, on that profiles tab there are many different options once you get looking, but given all the blasted 'tag' lameness I've seen of late, I figured I'd go off on a rant on this particular subject. It can all be useful, depending, and it's all according to taste, and I know you folks have seen the subscription thing given all the sigs all over the place, so ... please. For the sake of sanity and keeping rp's clean ... use the tools available? I'm beggin' ya here. No, seriously. Driving me mad, I tell you. MAD I say!

*shiftyeyes*

Ahem. Yes. Tags are evil and must be destroyed. Come to the subscription side, and together we can end this destructive ... yeah, anyways. There's my rant. Take it for what it's worth, folks. Hope this reaches at least someone out there.

--Nathi's Player

PS - yes I know some of you tag with a post. THAT is entirely different. THAT is 'tagging' with style, and is RP ... which I have absolutely no issue with, so before y'all bring that up ... yar.

Tag.

:D

J/K.

You've got a good point there, actually. I never knew that folder thing stuff existed.

Good points, Nathi. I use the subsription thing all the time, though I like having it all in one big folder, so I can scan the newest.

About the sigs? Well, mine is pretty simple and it isn't changing for a while.

I personally agree, and have stopped using tags.

I disagree, because of the fact that the tags don't seem to work for me.... and also, I always do myself an Ego search when I log on, I think I've opened my profile... once? Maybe?

Seriously put people arn't really going to change anything because of your ranting... *Suddenly sounds a whole lot like Nathi on IRC* Now folks, that's scary.

Meh. I do not mind. At least you'll know that *someone* is reading your threads. One paragraph tag-like posts are preferable though, but sometimes I simply do not have the creativity. -_-

Mass-tagging can be annoying though, and more often then not I just subscribe.

this needs an [OOC] in the title ;p (first thought: whoa, DLN is banning those annoying tags in clothing? :o)

Mrr. personally, I think tags kinda became useless when search was disabled on the old forum. Except for boosting your postcount. Doesn't really matter to me unless you've got a couple of pages of tags after your first post (which never happens to me anyway).
mweheehee. postcount++;
--Felix

[OOC: Tags are most definitely highly annoying, especially when you specifically say 'please don't post in this thread'. Or when you're waiting for replies in a thread that's for absolutely anyone to get involved in, and all everyone says is...

tag. ARGH!

There, that's my significantly shorter but thoroughly pointless rant on the subject.]

Personally I like to know that people are interested in my threads, I don't mind the free bump, and it makes me look cool to have more people posting in my threads.

That would be, if I made more than one thread every couple of decades or so...

Thelas - you know your settings? Fix them. Then you too can benefit from this wonderful system. It doesn't take a rocket scientist (or even *gasp* a law student) to figure it out. The tools are there. Use them. At the very least, put some bloody effort into it and at least have some relevant rp post to validate the tag business.

As for some of the rest ... now let me get this straight. You enjoy the clutter for ... ego? You know, I could go on at length for just how pathetic that is, but I'd start looking like even more the jerk than I likely already do. Views - if you keep track of that sort of thing - are ample indication of readership. Me, while I'm flattered anyone pays attention to what I'm doing, am not interested in ratings or numbers or any such stuff.

I'm in it for the writing. For the creativity. For the chance to stretch a little and rp with folks for *yet another gasp* fun. I could care less about how many people are following what I do. Either folks will read, or they won't - it doesn't really matter in the end. Granted I don't expect others to operate the same, but hey - there's plenty of us who wouldn't mind seeing things a bit cleaned up in threads.

--Nathi's Player (The Ever Opinionated)


PS - what, the title and the fact I signed it as Nathi's Player wasn't enough indication that this is an OOC thread? Jebus, people ... no wonder moderation and tech support and all manner of other spots here are loaded with assinine questions and problems that people really ought to be able to solve themselves, or better, avoid getting into trouble with to begin with. THINK! USE YER HEADS! SAVE TIME AND EFFORT!

I suppose I for one am fortunate that I encountered such forum abilities at another place already and therefor find myself spared from having to use the ever well known (and clearly well distasted) [tag].

Mainly because aside from the fact of notificating others that they are being watched such a comment seems to be rather meaningless to me. If there are dozens of such posts made I sincerly doubt they make anything clear in the first place.

Also while I definitly enjoy posts in reply to anything I write and consider them good for my ego, a Tag isn't exactly the kind of reply I usually hope for.

*remembers that with some of the old nations he had there were threads were tag's were the only reply he received.*

Anyhoo, I hope it's clear that I agree with the original standpoint. No more tags.

As for some of the rest ... now let me get this straight. You enjoy the clutter for ... ego? You know, I could go on at length for just how pathetic that is, but I'd start looking like even more the jerk than I likely already do. Views - if you keep track of that sort of thing - are ample indication of readership. Me, while I'm flattered anyone pays attention to what I'm doing, am not interested in ratings or numbers or any such stuff.
[...]
--Nathi's Player (The Ever Opinionated)

Well, basically I do like to know when people read my stuff. I do not WANT people to massively tag but I do not really mind either. Views are just anonymous statistics. I do not quite see why it is pathetic to feel that way.
~Knoot

I can't stand people tagging, I always put a nice 'no tagging' ooc comment in any thread I start. So far it's worked and havn't had a tag since. It was really annoying when I started an RP and all I got was tags and no IC.

Bah! In my day, we didn't have all this subscription nonsense, and y'know what we did? We bookmarked threads to keep 'em where they were wanted! As a matter of fact, I still do this, as opposed to subscribing, because bookmarking seems to take less effort. [/geezer]

Well, basically I do like to know when people read my stuff.
Well, the thread views tally is a fairly good way to gauge if people are interested.

I knew about the subscribtions, but I never knew about the folders. Thanks.

Just a smidge of mod/RPer opinion:

While the moderator team hasn't yet made much of a move for or against tags (it is an old habit, and people can raise good points in favor of and against them), there is an overall opinion that we have.

The consensus is pretty much that posts that are little more than [tag] are essentially spam. They're no longer needed, they clutter threads, they have no substance.

HOWEVER! While we do generally view them as spam, there is NO OFFICIAL EDICT AGAINST THEM AT THIS TIME.

Now, as an RPer, yeah, it is ego stroking to get my stuff tagged. However, people posting just [tag] isn't any more helpful than the number of views. It doesn't TELL you anything. I think tags with some commentary are far better, since then they have substance. Even if it's just that they like the way its written or that they don't like it. Commentary and criticism are good things, people!

http://rpstudios.ian-justman.com/junk/CGgoods/RepProdtheModsig2.JPG
~Evil Empress Rep Prod the Ninja Mod
~Master of the mighty moderation no-dachi Kiritateru Teikoku

Good point, bad place. This should have went somewhere else.

And why would that be, Steel? This is where I mostly play, and this forum right here is therefore where I mostly see this tagging business going on. Where, perchance, would you have recommended it go dare I ask? Not very helpful critique if you can't at least mention a better solution.

Nanaka: No problem. It seems there's several who are aware and yet not of some of the options available. Can't deny that folks who like tagging will likely keep tagging, but perhaps some will take advantage of another alternative, as seems to be the case here.

--Nathi's Character

I'm not the only one who winces now and then seeing a nice bit of rp cluttered up with 'tag' bits and ginormous sigs that take up six times more space than said tag.
Don't get me started... *growl*

tag

I personally don't hold anything against people who tag; although it can get annoying. I myself don't tag, nor susbscribe, I just look through to forum for the threads I need, you lazy gits :P

Not posting a huge sig when you tag is only common curtesy, IMO. And yes, I agree that OOC commentary or a one-paragraph IC post is better.

tag
Heretic! :mp5:

I don't see tags as evil that needs desperately to be combated. Useless, perhaps, but on the other hand they're an excellent way to tell who the sheep are and in which directions they like to graze...

And why would that be, Steel? This is where I mostly play, and this forum right here is therefore where I mostly see this tagging business going on. Where, perchance, would you have recommended it go dare I ask? Not very helpful critique if you can't at least mention a better solution.

Nanaka: No problem. It seems there's several who are aware and yet not of some of the options available. Can't deny that folks who like tagging will likely keep tagging, but perhaps some will take advantage of another alternative, as seems to be the case here.

--Nathi's Character


This HAS NO PLACE here, I see your point with having it here since you want more people to see it. But it is about gameplay and not a RP. Just because this is where you normally play doesn't make it more valid in a IC forum.

I agree with Nathi in some of her points, but I prefer seeing tags compared to Bumps... Especially if you can do them with some style. I think it is also good that she pointed out alternative ways to tag threads.

Move to Gameplay

Well, tagging is MAINLY an NS problem that is not really relevant for the other forums. Keeping it here is more practical. OOC is not enforced here anyway.

Well, as to the views thing, it's one thing to click on a thread out of curiosity and quite another to find it interesting enough to keep tabs (or tags) on. Sometimes it takes a couple of posts from the original player before there's much scope for interaction, and I really don't think that it hurts for others to let one know that they're actually interested rather than just having clicked on the basis of the title and been completely uninterested.
I do agree about the giant sigs being a tad irritating.

I'm well aware of the folder features and often have used several of them. I've even been known to explain how to use some of them to other people.

But I still use tags.

You know why? Subscribing via the folder option doesn't tell anyone that you're reading a thread they created because you think it's great reading. Tags serve one useful purpose: It lets you know who's reading your threads.

This HAS NO PLACE here, I see your point with having it here since you want more people to see it. But it is about gameplay and not a RP. Just because this is where you normally play doesn't make it more valid in a IC forum.

I agree with Nathi in some of her points, but I prefer seeing tags compared to Bumps... Especially if you can do them with some style. I think it is also good that she pointed out alternative ways to tag threads.

Move to Gameplay


There have always been pertinent ooc posts in this forum, and I would bet there will continue to be. I stand by my opinions on proper placement for the topic and audience, and would note that were it in such abhorrent violation, the two mods that posted here would quite likely have moved it as you seem to deem it ought to.

As I said, Vegana - 'tags' with style are not the problem. I think we've all seen indirect posts from folks 'monitoring' a situation ic'ly whilst meaning the post to be (or noting it to be after the fact) an elaborate tag, even if it is a brief ic bit. I don't think anyone is arguing against those - I know I'm not.

--Nathi's Player

I did resist saying anything here... Like people say, if you don't have anything to say, say nothing at all... *Waves to Nath* Nevertheless...

I agree with the tags. Those of us who do serious RPing hate it. I know Nathi only by reputation, but that's a pretty good reputation. All I see of her are these intricate story threads revolving around big characters and plots. I think Nathi is a five star RPer who should get quite a few cheers for showing us what Nationstates RPing is really about. As I believe Nathi once noted on IRC, You don't have to RP wars to gain credibility.

That said, I do get what Rep is saying. Just the mere mention of a tag gets me excited. It does mean people do care enough to say something along the lines of This is brilliant. I'm going to enjoy this. I'm giving it a stamp of approval and I'm going to check back when there are new posts.

The Tag is a waste of space, though. As Nathi mentjoned, go subscribe to the thread. If you're going to comment or applaud, actually write in a congratulatory comment or similar.

If you don't have anything to say, say nothing at all... This is how I think the "tag" policy should be. In General, I see "Post Count +1" or similar before a thread is locked. How different is that to "tag"?

What I am consistently upset about is Bump. I mean, for bloody *insert a few expletives* sake people, if people want to buy your bloody goods or comment on your RP, they would've done so already! Sure, they might not have seen it, but why bother bumping? Just introduce something new in that thread of substance! Unless, of course, it's an RPer in which case you're implying a lack of brilliance in writing... Or a shopkeeper in which case you're out of products...

The bump is an even bigger scourge! Ahem. *Waves to Nathi* I really respect you, keep up the good RPing!

tag, bumb, blow :P

I'm not a very good rper, nor am I a powerplayer of any sort. But I agree that tags and bumbs are useless. Put something IC if you want to do it. Like me, my nation is fond of sending quaint little objects like gavels and flags to other nations. I actually thinks its cool but alas, I'm in a minority.

Bumps are useful Adej. Not allways, but they can be when you can't put anything new into an RP, such as the first post of a thread in the middle of the night for a major population of NS(IE: America). For OOC threads, it is useful for ones that get buried quickly on busy days.

Okay, so maybe not all bumps are bad. But I have seen the downright wailing some people give. "Please buy my stuff" or "I seriously can't believe nobody is interested". Even on bloody General, there's "I can't believe nobody is on at this hour (and is going to reply to my thread)".

I see people running storefronts bumping every half an hour and whining like a little kid.

So maybe I was a bit rash in my opening volley, but I, like Nathi, are tired of seeing reams of tag/bump posts, most of which serve no useful purpose except to pad peoples' post counts.

And let me just state categorically for the record. I do on rare occasions tag threads and bump my storefronts. Rarely. But unlike some others, I certainly do not like to inflate my post count with incessant postings anywhere and everywhere. I have made maybe twenty posts total in General and everything else is 90% in RPs (ie NS forum) or RP related (storylined storefront posts).

Bumps are useful Adej. Not allways, but they can be when you can't put anything new into an RP, such as the first post of a thread in the middle of the night for a major population of NS(IE: America). For OOC threads, it is useful for ones that get buried quickly on busy days.

Also for sign-ups, Bumps are required. Don't tell me people can search for threads, often they do not know such threads exist or the search function is simply a PoS to them.

Tags on the other side show interest in a certain thread. That is a reason, why I still tag.

I see people running storefronts bumping every half an hour and whining like a little kid. That's because II is the spammiest forum on NationStates. The month of November takes up about 40 pages of threads. That's ~800 threads in... *checks calander* 22 days. It's pretty easy for something to slide off the first page in 30 minutes, even at 2am.


As for which forum this belongs in, it clearly belongs in NS. NS is for IC and OOC discussion of RP. This is an OOC discussion of RP (in general, not a specific thread). Gameplay is not a roleplaying forum, it's regioncrap. The only other place something like this could conceivably go is in Moderation, and that would be if Nathi was requesting that tags be formally banned.

Since when are sign-ups ic threads? You see, there are differences and exceptions to all manner of things.

Granted, content is generally better - when it can be managed. I think we all know that isn't always the case, as has been illustrated here. My beef is with the lame tags in ic rp threads, and believe me, it's rampant. I don't just read my own, or my allies threads, yaknow. I enjoy reading a LOT of people's work, many of whom I only know by taking the time to check out new threads, having never rp'ed with them myself.

There's a lot of talent out there, and a lot of interesting bits. I just think it's a shame to see it clogged up with a lot of, well ... needless clutter.

Adejaani ... dear lord, boy. You really went over the top there. It was never my intent to use this as an ego-booster or the like, just to get a lil rant of mine off my chest. Surprised at the attention it's already gotten, truth. I'm terribly flattered by your compliments, but truth, a good deal of the praise belongs to the fabulous folks I've had the pleasure of rp'ing with. If not for them, I'd not have been inspired to go the directions I have, nor had the opportunities for character growth that have come up. That being said, I really don't believe I deserve the praise you posted there, and we should keep this on topic if we continue, but I thank you for your kindness all the same.

--Nathi's Player

PS - no, I won't be asking they be banned. The mods would never be done with their work then. *grins* I'm just offering up alternatives for folks - whether or not they choose to use them is frankly up to them. Some have said they weren't aware - great. Others will do as they damn well please, seeing as my opinion is just that ... an opinion. One of many differing ones. Take it for what it's worth, folks. ;)

Sorry, Nath, but I call the shots as I see it, even if I did go a bit overboard. ;)

Sorry if I sound disorganised, it's early... :p

The tag should basically be at the discretion of whoever owns the thread... If you don't want simple tags, just place an OOC at the top, warning anyone who does so will be disemboweled... http://home.iprimus.com.au/quincyw/dwangel.gif Though seriously, if you don't want tags, politely tell them to actually comment instead of a simple tag, if they're forced to post in your thread.

And the bump... Well... Post count +1... :confused: