NationStates Jolt Archive

K-stan's Handy-Dandy Disclaimer:
This thread is based upon the assumption that you will be participating in character-oriented, story-oriented, or story-style-combat role playing. As such, it is aimed at improving that genre of role play. If you prefer to run storefronts, numbers-based role play, or other forms of forum activity, you may find this guide of less importance.

Still, it could not hurt to read it, could it?

Quick and Easy Steps to Better Writing
You write and write and write, and no one cares, or they don't give good reviews. You're getting angry, you want more respect. Here's some easy steps to get an exponential improvement in RP quality, and therefore, in respect you get:

Write everything for an RP or story in MSWord, or OpenOffice, or some other good word processor. (I really recommend MSWord). This will correct spelling and grammar errors... at least most common ones.


Paragraph your works. The rules of paragraphing are simple: Change paragraphs with every topic, and change with every speaker. This means, that whenever someone new starts talking, you need to change paragraphs. Observe this made up scene: "Turn left!" Declared John, pointing to the map. "I think the restaurant is over there."

"I can't see it in this fog!" Stated Bob as he leaned over the wheel.

"So, how about those gas prices?"

"What about 'em?"

"They're high." This may seem to stretch a post out, but it greatly improves readability, and adds a professional look to your posts. This is one of the least used and most abused mechanics rule in NS.


DON'T WRITE IN CAPS IN AN RP. Writing in all capitals is a bad technique. Instead, use italics to emphasize a point. You type "[ i ]" to start an italic style, and "[ /i ]" to end it (without the quotes, obviously, and no spaces). In this way, the word "big" becomes big. This is much nicer to read. Despite what you've heard, CAPSLOCK is not cruise control for cool.


When typing a character's thoughts, put them in italics, and treat them like dialogue when it comes to paragraphing. This means, whenever you change speakers, or "thinkers" in this case, you need to change paragrpahs. An example: Since the italics command "i" did not work, I substituted the bold command "b". In normal writing, use italics instead of bold.

The commander turned from the window. So, it is done, then? His fist clenched. All is lost now, and we cannot save this dying world.
This is allowed, because only one character, the commander, has thought dialogue.

The door behind him opened. "Sir?" the officer asked. "Do you have an order?"
When another character, the officer, speaks, the paragraph changes.

"Pull the fleet back." Damnit, we have to retreat. The commander turned back to the window. "We need to regroup."
The commander can both speak and think in the same paragraph, as it still one character having dialogue.

In his mind, he felt the tingle, the psychic call from his bonded partner. You have failed us.

No, I have not. I shall return here, victorius.

You had better.
Like spoken dialogue, mental dialogue changes paragraphs with each new "speaker".


Do not abbreviate in your writings. The phrase "et cetera" is not just "etc". Absolutely, do not put "u"... write "you", and so on.

Do not use numbers. If you need to say "13", type "thirteen". Disclaimer on this at bottom of Advanced Section.

Never, ever, ever, put chat-speak into your writings. Keep "LOL" and "WTF" in your chats.

The exception to this rule is titles and proper names. The National Aeronautics and Space Administration can be called NASA, and America Online Instant Messenger can be called AIM. The Secretary of State could be SecState, and so on. If the abbreviation is commonly used as the name, such as these listed, or NSA for National Security Agency, then it can be abbreviated.


On "I": whenever the word "I", as in self, appears in writing, it is capitalized.


Seperate OOC (Out of Character) and IC (In Character) statements. Notate your writing as such: OOC: Where did those tanks come from, Kaukolastan? I thought you didn't even have armored divisions left!

IC: The thunder of the tanks treads shook the ground... <insert huge post here> ... The guns thundered.

OOC2: If you goofed, just ignore this post, and we'll do something else. If not, this is my response.


Dividing topics. This is pretty simple. If you have a post, and you have to cover multiple topics, such as explaining about two characters, miles apart, you need to make this clear. An easy way to shift the focus of a post is to do insert a break with "****", "----", or just about any string of characters. It would look like this:The fires in Alexinberg were raging, and they showed no sign of stopping. The sirens... <this goes on for however long>.

---------------------------------------------------------

Thompson stepped off the bus into New Kerindan, looking at the glint of the city towers... <this continues>.
Now, if you really want to be spiffy, you can add "media tags" that give away the location, like the text at the bottom of the screen in a TV show: Alexinberg
0600 Hours
The fires in Alexinberg were raging, and they showed no sign of stopping. The sirens... <this goes on for however long>.

---------------------------------------------------------
New Kerindan
0700 Hours
Thompson stepped off the bus into New Kerindan, looking at the glint of the city towers... <this continues>.


Do not put smileys into IC posts. Your president, warlord, or Joe Blow the Dock worker is not going to turn to his confidante and proudly state, " :D " or " :cool: ", much less " :mp5: " or " :sniper: ".

Please, only you can stop the smiley whoring.


Please God, stop the uber-signatures. There is nothing more distracting in an RP than this kind of post:
IC: I oppose this research.

----------------------------
LOOK I HAVE A SIGNATURE!
IT'S SO HUGE!

HERE, HOW ABOUT SOME SMILEYS?
:mp5: :sniper: :sniper: :mp5:

HERE'S SOME LINKS:
www.somethingawful.com
www.theonion.com

I LOVE ALL CAPS! I HAD AN APPLE FOR BREAKFAST!

MY FAVORITE BOOK:
"Call me Ishmael... <insert entire contents of Moby Dick here>"
Please, keep your signature down to one or two lines. A lot of RPers, even good ones, have the never-ending signatures, and it's really annoying.

A note on signatures. Underneath "Additional Options" - "Miscellaneous Options" you have the choice to:

[x]Show your signature
[x]Automatically parse links in text
[x]Disable smilies in text

If you must keep the uber-signature, make sure you uncheck "show your signature" when posting in RP's.


On quoting: Quoting is good, but don't quote the entire content of a three page post. Rather, just quote the post, delete the insides, and replace it with "-snip-" or some other phrase, and reply to it.

Trouble Words
-They're = Contraction of "They Are": "They're turning left."
-Their = Possive of "They": "Their accomplishments make them proud."
-There = Location: "Go over there."

-To = Preposition: "Take this road to the fork."
-Too = Adverb, giving degree: "There is too much here."
-Two = Number: "There are two of them."

-Your = Possessive of "You": "Is this your dress?"
-You're = Contraction of "You Are": "You're a moron."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Advanced Section: More Depth Available Here

On Apostrophes
The loveable apostrophe (') is used to show possession and to create contractions, where two words are combined into one. Here's some examples:
Contractions
They would = They'd
He would = He'd
She would = She'd
It would = It'd

They will = They'll
He will = He'll
She will = She'll
It will = It'll

They have = They've
He has = He's
She has = He's
It has = It's

Can not = Can't
Is not = Isn't
Has not = Hasn't
Have not = Haven't
Will not = Won't

Would have = Would've
Could have = Could've

Now, this does not (doesn't) cover all the contraction, but it is (it's) more than enought to get the point across. When typing formally, try to avoid using contractions, but they are perfectly fine inside of character-dialogue.

(As a little note, using contractions in writing is one of my personal bad habits, so if you want to go dig up some and embarass me in this thread with my own screw-ups, go right ahead. ;) )

Possessives
For most nouns, simply adding 's is enough to show possession.

Jacob = Jacob's
Susie = Susie's
Spot = Spot's
Spots (plural of "spot") = Spots'
With the plural noun, the apostrophe came after the s, not before it.

NOTE: Pronouns are different.
He = His
She = Hers
They = Their(s)
It = Its

Who and Whom
When dealing with "who" and "whom", remember that "who" is the subject, while "whom" is the Direct Object. In other word, "who" commits and action, while "whom" receives the action. For example:
“Now, who carried that vase?” Here, ‘who’ is the subject as ‘who’ is carrying the vase.

“Now, he carried whom?” Here, ‘whom’ is the direct object; ‘he’ is carrying ‘whom.’

“Whose vase is this?” Here, ‘whose’ is being used as a possessive; ‘who’ owns the vase.

Prepositions
Prepositions are words that indicate a relation between the object they refer to, and the verb. These include words such as"to" and "at". They are used as such:

"Drive to the store." Here, "to" gives a direction on where to drive.

"Take a turn at the light." Again, the preposition "at" indicates a location.

In general, it is bad form to end a sentence in a preposition, such as:

BAD:
"Where did you come from." The preposition "from" is ending the sentence.

CORRECTED:
"From where did you come?" This sounds odd, but it is more grammatically correct. Most people, however, do not talk like this, so in-character dialogue is fine in the "bad" form.

A Note on This "Rule":
-The rule of not ending sentences in a preposition was invented as a parallel to Latin, and is actually more of a tradition. Some phrases, written "correctly" are quiet stilted, such as Winston Churchill's famous statement: This is the sort of English up with which I cannot put.
Obviously, then, some degree of adjustment must be made.


Disclaimer on the Numbers
As I mentioned earlier, you should type out numbers instead of writing the numerals. This will never be wrong. There is some argument about what the cut-off is for having to write out the word form (go ahead and read the thread to see all the theories). If you choose to take the easy way and simply write a numeral string, please remember that characters will never speak in numbers. That is, no matter how large a number may be, it must be written out in dialgue. For example:

61,320 soldiers waited. - OKAY
"Sir, we have 61,320 soldiers waiting!" - NO NO NO
"Sir, we have sixty-one thousand, three hundred twenty soldiers waiting." - OKAY

Remember, it is always better looking to write it out, unless you're making an OOC list.


Beyond Mechanics: Writing Style
Once you've mastered the mechanics of writing, you can hit the aesthetics. This is where the slag and steel comes apart, so don't worry about this unless you already know how to convey your points effectively. This is probably more important than just mechanics, but without the mechanics under command, good style would be just like trying to run a Corvette with a Model T engine.

Showing, not Telling.
When you wish to convince your readers of a scene or character, don't just state the situation or status. Instead, paint a picture of what's happening.

This is "telling": Harry is an evil person.
This is "showing": Harry watched quietly as the woman thrashed in the water. He counted silently in his head until she reached the surface again.

"Oh my God!" cried a man passing by. "She's drowning! Aren't you going to help her?"

Harry turned and favored the man with an icy glare. "Why should I? What's she ever done for me?"

Which of these two scenes is going to convince the reader that Harry is indeed a bad person?

Painting the Scene.
The correct use of descriptive words can create a much more potent scene than simply rote action. Take this scene, for instance:

Basic Action: John looked outside. It was snowing. John decided to put on a sweater before he left for work.

Expanded Scene: The snow was quickly blanketing the ground, and the simple thought of it made John shiver. Perhaps his father was right. Working outdoors did have its disadvantages. Still, John could never imagine himself behind a desk, wasting his life away filling out forms and generally pushing papers. Throwing on a sweater while banking on the false hope that it wouldn't be cold in the freezing winds, John ventured out into the wilderness, locking his front door behind him.

Once again, the difference is quiet obvious, and doesn't take that long to do. (Steel Butterfly, who contributed this, claims to have written the long scene in under five minutes.) A small investment of time will pay off greatly.

Over-stating
It is possible to overdo your description. This scene speaks for itself.It is clear from the haunted look in the man's burning eyes that he has studied and mastered the dark arts of magick, and his eyes burn darkly.
-Taken without permission from Elf Only Inn, then taken from Treznor with implied permission.

There is such a thing as too much, when it gets redundant.

TLC
Give your posts tender-love-and-care. It will show.

Well, if you're writing a post purposely funny, I think using WTF and LOL adds to the humour.

Important things to remember

you're = you are
your = possessive pronoun

their = possessive pronoun
they're = they are
there = place or location

Capitalize i.

For example

"i'm so tired," said Commander Frederick as he moved ever so slowly to his bed, his legs like logs.

should be

"I'm so tired," said Commander Frederick as he moved ever so slowly to his bed, his legs like logs.

Separate different plots.

For example

<<five paragraphs dealing with a presidential speech>>

--- (or *** or any marker you want)

<<five paragraphs of dialogue among soldiers>>

If a sentence ends with a single quote (') or double quote (") be sure to include the sentence's puncutation inside the quote.

'The end.'

"The end."

"The end!"

and so forth.

Numbers between one and one hundred (and the numbers 200, 300, 400... 1000, 2000... 1,000,0000...) should be typed, however, it is not neccessary to type out numbers like 124.

Use semicolons, they make you look cool if you use 'em correctly!

Remember to note OOC talk.

I use greater than (>) and less than (<) signs.

<OOC: ooc stuff here>

Okay, updated to here. Simpsons Springfield, your stuff has been added. I didn't put in the part about the punctuation, because if they use a Word Processor, it will catch that automatically. The part about semicolons wasn't added because I'm trying to keep it simple and quick. The parts about OOC and IC have been added, as has a section on problem words, dividing topics, and capitalizing "I".

Thank you, and keep it coming, people.

Perhaps something on comas and apostrophes? They seem to be neglected by many a writer.

Funny, I seem to overuse them. Here's some advice.

Write something original, put something ironic in the writing. Do something that nobody is going to expect. Like a President dancing while wearing a suit >_>

Also if you don't know much about war, stick to character RPs...

Okay, updated to here. Simpsons Springfield, your stuff has been added. I didn't put in the part about the punctuation, because if they use a Word Processor, it will catch that automatically. The part about semicolons wasn't added because I'm trying to keep it simple and quick. The parts about OOC and IC have been added, as has a section on problem words, dividing topics, and capitalizing "I".

Thank you, and keep it coming, people.

((ooh, I wouldn't recommend using a wp to check grammar. Just the other day, I was checking someone’s essay and I noticed they wrote “who does this belong to?” or something like that. I changed it to “to whom does this belong?” and it said I was wrong!? Dumbass Microsoft Word. That’s the exact reason I use AppleWorks. That way, I don’t have the option to ‘correct’ my grammar, so it can’t annoy me.

Oh yeah, and remember: use ‘who’ for the subject, ‘whom’ for the direct object or after a preposition, and ‘whose’ to denote possession. For example:

“Now, who carried that vase?” Here, ‘who’ is the subject as ‘who’ is carrying the vase.

“Now, he carried whom?” Here, ‘whom’ is the direct object; ‘he’ is carrying ‘whom.’

“Carry this vase to whom?” Here, ‘whom’ is being used as part of a prepositional phrase. PS: it’s bad form to use a preposition to end a sentence; only do so if it’s out of character or in conversational dialogue and you feel that is what the character would say.

“Whose vase is this?” Here, ‘whose’ is being used as a possessive; ‘who’ owns the vase.))

I'm going to clear up a quick thing, just to help out. I meant this thread to fix the "gloss" of a post, to make the mechanics (spelling a grammar) better. Quality of RP is whole new can of worms. While I appreciate the feedback, there are whole stickies devoted to quality of RP, but nothing to quality of writing.

Also, try to keep this simple, as this thread is not aimed at those with complete command of the language, but those many posters for whom English might be a second language, or just might have problems with writing. I'm going to split my post into "Quick Fix" and "Advanced" sections because of this, but please, try to keep the amount of minutia or "rule breakers" down. I want this to be easily digested by even a person with rudimentary writing experience.

Thanks, K-stan
To all you wordsmiths our there, who weave the stories that make life worth living...

Do not use numbers. If you need to say "13", type "thirteen".I disagree with this one slightly. For any numbers from one to nine, I generally spell them out, but anything above nine gets a numeral. That's the way I was taught in AP style when I was writing for newspapers.

Writing something like six hundred thousand troops can be needlessly cumbersome. Writing 600,000 troops saves space and is more legible in my opinion. However, if the number began a sentence, you'd spell it out.

Example: I wanted to send 600,000 troops to Holy Panooly.

Six hundred thousand Sarzonian troops nervously awaited their orders for the final march into Panooly City.

A lot of what you've said makes a lot of sense and as a former English major, I like seeing it.

Okay, work calls for now, but I'm up to Iansisle's post in terms of updating the topside. I'll finish up when I return from work, including adding the disclaimer on numbers.

K-stan

PS: Happy to provide this, and thanks for the feedback.

Well written, well thought out, easily read, and you actually follow your own rules!

Good work!

Well, if you want to get technical about numbers, this is the rule. One must write out the numbers one through ten, but anything over ten came written like this 12, 13, 14, and 15 that is for MLA format. For APA format one must write all the numbers out.

I think I was always taught to write numbers out until they either got to three sylables(sp?), or three words. I dont really remember a whole lot about it though because I usually just write numbers out no matter what.

See, I was always taught to spell out words up to but not including 100. Such is the problem. You can get ten people together and they will have been taught ten different ways.

On another note, how do we go about getting this stickifiedinized?

There are no hard and fast rules for numbers. It's all style, which is why publications have style books. AP has one, the New York Times, Chicago Tribune, etc. all have them. The style book for an American publication will be different than one for a British publication, as the two nations have different styles of writing (such as: CD's vs. CDs, or where punctuation is placed by quotation marks).

Since style books vary depending on how the publication wishes to write, there is no "true" rule on some bits of grammar, like the numbers in question. Therefore, it is probably best to do whatever seems to easiest to write, and fits your personal style (as most people don't keep a copy of AP or MLA style books handy).

Myself? I tend to write things out until they start getting clunky. "Three thousand" in stead of "3000", but "7642" as opposed to "seven thousand, six hundred forty-two". Decimals tend to get clunky too (ie: "Three point one four one five nine two seven"). However, I'd likely write out something like "Four hundred trillion", largely because "400,000,000,000,000" is... large.

Meh. Whatever floats yer boat, I guess.

Oh, and have a sticky.

Oh! One last thought: NEVER USE SMILIES IN IC POSTS! Ahem, sorry. Pet peeve, that.

My advice to better writing: pay attention in english class at least a little, watch a lot of drama tv (Law & Order, Nip/Tuck, etc.), play RPG's (FF used to give me inspiration in one way or another often), and use adjectives, write with style, and just be generally descriptive. Used properly, good adjectives improve your writing ten fold.

Example:

1. John looked outside. It was snowing. John decided to put on a sweater before he left for work.

2. The snow was quickly blanketing the ground, and the simple thought of it made John shiver. Perhaps his father was right. Working outdoors did have its disadvantages. Still, John could never imagine himself behind a desk, wasting his life away filling out forms and generally pushing papers. Throwing on a sweater while banking on the false hope that it wouldn't be cold in the freezing winds, John ventured out into the wilderness, locking his front door behind him.

Notice how #2 used adjectives and flowed together better? It also established John as a character with depth. Depth means that your readers can identify with John more personally, and therefore get more out of your story and the emotions that you're trying to get across. This simple paragraph shows that John is a man who works outdoors, who is an "outdoorsy" type of person, and that at some point in his life, his father and he disagreed on employment options.

Also, #2 was written in less than five minutes. Normally, I'd spend a lot more time making it read even easier, as well as try to form a perfect mental picture in my mind of exactly what's going on.

Put time into your writing. Not too much that you simply stress over it...but not too little that it doesn't make sense. It also helps to plan out what you're trying to do before hand, and also listen to "mood music" while you're writing.

Intense scene? Heavy Metal. Sad? Slow classical. Love? Obviously a love song. Happy? Something upbeat.

Take my word for it...it works.

Therefore, it is probably best to do whatever seems to easiest to write, and fits your personal style (as most people don't keep a copy of AP or MLA style books handy).

Bah...don't use those damn books for creative writing. Don't let someone else chose your style. Open up...be creative!

All good suggestions, Steel. While good grammar, format, and spelling will get you minimal respect on the forums, creativity and story-depth will give you respect and credibility.

There are some very important aspects to writing, once you've got the grammatical bits down.

Show us your story, don't tell us. For example.

Harry is an evil person.Yay. So is my mother.

Harry watched quietly as the woman thrashed in the water. He counted silently in his head until she reached the surface again.

"Oh my God!" cried a man passing by. "She's drowning! Aren't you going to help her?"

Harry turned and favored the man with an icy glare. "Why should I? What's she ever done for me?"You decide which example convinces your audience.

Then, of course, there's a very classic mistake of over-telling your story. This happens when you're trying to convey something you think is vitally important, and you want to make sure your readers don't miss it.

It is clear from the haunted look in the man's burning eyes that he has studied and mastered the dark arts of magick, and his eyes burn darkly.
-Taken without permission from Elf Only Inn (http://www.elfonlyinn.net)Trust me. If it's that important, your readers will get it if you can convince them to read long enough. Don't beat them over the head, let it come out in the story. Set up situations for your character to demonstrate what you're trying to say rather than coming out and telling us how dark, mysterious and dangerous your character is.

That ought to hold you for now.

I disagree with this one slightly. For any numbers from one to nine, I generally spell them out, but anything above nine gets a numeral. That's the way I was taught in AP style when I was writing for newspapers.

Writing something like six hundred thousand troops can be needlessly cumbersome. Writing 600,000 troops saves space and is more legible in my opinion. However, if the number began a sentence, you'd spell it out.


I agree.

Two handy on topic links are:

Chicago Manual of Style (http://chicagomanualofstyle.org/cmosfaq.html)
Guardian style guide (http://www.guardian.co.uk/styleguide)

A note on signatures. Underneath "Additional Options" - "Miscellaneous Options" you have the choice to:

[x]Show your signature
[x]Automatically parse links in text
[]Disable smilies in text

Uncheck show your signature when posting in RP's.

Now, "sticking to your guns" is all well and good. It shows principle, strength of will, and creative drive. However, there comes a point when "sticking to your guns" is little better than "mind numbingly stubborn". The trick is not to single-mindedly hold to a path, but to discern between constructive criticism and someone being a jerk. For example, if someone were to post this: I launch 49698725 nukes at yuo.

This is a jerk response: Hey, shut the fuck up, n00b. Why don't you go back to Diablo, fucktard?

This is a constructively critical response: Hello, <name of newbie>, I am <name of player>. It's good to see a new player in this game. Since you're new here, I can show you how to play better, if you want. Just read these stickies, and if you have any questions, I can help you out. My AIM is... <and so on>

Obviously, ignoring the jackass is expected. Ignoring helpful offers is moronic. Always try to improve your writing style. Take pointers from others, read a lot, practice writing. No one has a personal muse that allows perfect literature to spill from their keyboard. Writing takes time and practice, and if someone or something else can help lessen that time, all the better.

And yes, write about what you want. But, anyone can sing in the shower. You also need to know what your audience wants to read, so you can find that you can present your works to the masses better.

And yes, I do weird stuff too. I am a full time student, a full time salesman, a writer, play electric bass, and still manage to be an online junkie.

*****************************************************

Obviously, the example I provided is magnified to irrational proportions. Few new players are that bad, the "jerk" poster would be deated for flaming, and no one is that helpful.

Another tip that could help your writing style: read other RP's, paticularly ones in the NationStates forum. While International Incidents does have a few quality RP'ers, you have better chances of encountering a good well-written RP in the NS forum. Also check out threads in the Archive forum.

One thing about who and whom. As you said, "who" is used for the subject and "whom" for the object. However, "who" is also used for the predicate noun (anything after a linking verb- am, is, are, was, were, be, been, have, has, had, do, did, does, can, could, shall, should, will, would, may, might, must, or any other variation of "to be" you can think of- for anyone with English as a second language), as in, "He's the man who really runs the country," (well, who is normally used for relative clauses) or, "Who was that?"

Webster also debated using "whom" where "who" is common usage, such as in the sentence, "Who were you talking to?" That of course violates the preposition ending a sentence rule, but personally, I don't think English has to parallel Latin that closely :)

Generally, you don't have to worry about "whom" in dialogue since few people actually use it in conversation. You just have to think about it the rest of the time.

One thing about who and whom. As you said, "who" is used for the subject and "whom" for the object. However, "who" is also used for the predicate noun (anything after a linking verb- am, is, are, was, were, be, been, have, has, had, do, did, does, can, could, shall, should, will, would, may, might, must, or any other variation of "to be" you can think of- for anyone with English as a second language), as in, "He's the man who really runs the country," (well, who is normally used for relative clauses) or, "Who was that?"

Ah, good point. I always forget about that predicate-ness. :) I'd also agree on the part about not worrying about that rule in dialogue or out of character tags; I rarely bother to do so, unless the character is the sort who would be using it there. (Heh, and the previous sentence is a perfect example of the who being used as the predicate!) However, I would recommend it ninety nine per cent of the time while in character but not writing dialogue.

Dialogue breaks all the rules. You write how the character speaks. You see...

"Vhat?" the man asked in his strong, accented voice. "Vhat do you...vhat ah you doing here?"

...makes a lot more sense than...

"What?" the man asked in his strong, accented voice. "What do you, or what are you, doing here?"

...in dialogue.

"Vhat?" the man asked in his strong, accented voice. "Vhat do you...vhat ah you doing here?"

...makes a lot more sense than...

"What?" the man asked in his strong, accented voice. "What do you, or what are you, doing here?"

...in dialogue.
That's entirely a matter of preference, and frankly, if the accent gets thick enough it can make the dialogue unreadable. Be very careful how you apply this, or alternately what accents you assign. I'd rather read the latter and make my own assumptions about the accent than the former and spend extra time trying to translate what's written into recognisable english.

Writing an accent's fine as long as it's understandable and not ridiculous. This is debatable in great literature. For example, in Wuthering Heights, which many English speakers probably read in high school, there is a servant whose "accent" is so thick the reader has to work to figure out what he's saying. Many critics think this is great; I think it's unintelligible and pulls and damages suspension of disbelief. But to each their own. I'll leave it to someone else to show a good example of accent.

The main reason I'm writing is for a mechanics note. I was just reading a post where someone wrote "could of" where they meant "could have" or "could've." It's a pretty common mistake because people like to spell phonetically, but it's "could've," "would've," and "should've," not "could of," "would of," and "should of." If you're going for accent, it's "coulda," "woulda," and "shoulda." Don't spell out the contraction because it makes the same sound. (Tangential note which I'm violating in this post: You're not supposed to use contractions except in dialogue, though I've noticed several good authors who throw the occasional contraction into text. This rule probably comes down to personal preference.)

One more thing about "too," and then I'm done: "Too" is equivalent to "also," as in "'Too' doesn't just show degree; it means 'also,' too."

In general, I agree. A slight accent can add color to a story, while a heavy one can pull the reader out of the story to force them to concentrate for translation. I feel that the former is good, while the latter is disruptive.

As for the "could have, could've" argument, it depends on the voice being used for narrative. In formal writing, as with formal speech, contractions are strictly forbidden. But with informal writing, even outside of dialogue, using formal rules can make the story seem stilted and affect the flow.

Whatever you write, formal or informal, it helps to proof by reading out loud. What may sound acceptable to your mental voice may not work when you actually come to read it. If you say "should have" instead of "should've" and you find it sounds wrong, go with the contraction.

I can't write this to fit the style of your excellent guide, but...

Die, dies, dying... and their nemesis dye.

I see this mistake made so often in the online world that it makes my teeth set on edge. People seem to get the difference between "die" and "dye" and try their hardest to keep them seperate. What results is this:

"I am dieing for a box of chocolates."

I know it doesn't fit a pattern, but the present participle of die is in fact dying.

Stop the insanity!

I don't know if this has been brought up yet, but it's something I used to have a whole lot of trouble with...


In the Trouble Words category, you should point out then/than.

'Then' is used when dealing with time, or chronological events: "I took a shower then went to bed," or used to signify in addition to: "I have to pay for rent and my car, then there's school, too."

'Than' is used to contrast different things: "Tom is taller than Joe."

The Elements of Style (http://www.bartleby.com/141/) is a very good reference.

Also, here are some common trouble words.

Affect, effect. If you are looking for a noun, the word you want is almost certainly effect, meaning "result." The noun affect is generally restricted to technical discussions of psychology, where it means "an emotion" or "a stimulus to an emotion." If you are looking for a verb, the word you want is probably affect, meaning "impress, influence." The verb effect is comparatively uncommon; it means "bring about, accomplish, produce."

"Many of our welfare programs have not had beneficial effects."

"This song always affects me powerfully."

"The crowd was not affected by the plea to disband."

"We hope this new program will effect a whole new atmosphere on campus."


All ready, already. Already means "previously" or "by the designated time." All ready means "all set, all prepared."

"Professor Wills has already told us that twice."

"The plane is already overdue."

"The meal was all ready by six o'clock."


All right, alright. Alright is often considered non-Standard English. It is good policy to use all right instead.


All together, altogether. All together means "joined in a group." Altogether means "thoroughly" or "totally."

"For once, the citizens are all together on an important issue."

"The character's motivations are altogether obscure."


A lot of. This phrase is more appropriate in conversation than in general written English. Use it sparingly. Remember that a lot is two words. Do not confuse it with allot, meaning "to give out" or "apportion."


Than, then. Than is the word for expressing comparisons and exceptions. Then is the word for all other uses.

"Florida is more humid than California."

"John has nothing to worry about other than his own bad temper."

"At first Roberta thought the story was funny. Then she realized its underlying seriousness."

"We must work together, then, or we are all doomed."


When. In using this word, make sure it refers to time, as in "It was ten years ago when we first fell in love."

Wrong: "Basketball is when five men on opposing teams..."

Right: "Basketball is a game in which five men on opposing teams..."


Where. In using this word, make sure it refers to place, as in "This is the house where I used to live."

Wrong: "I am interested in seeing the movie where the motorcycle gang takes over the town."

Right: "I am interested in seeing the movie in which the motorcycle gang takes over the town."

Wrong: "The class is studying the time where the Industrial Revolution was beginning."

Right: "The class is studying the time when the Industrial Revolution was beginning."

A note: in non-dialogue text,

Instead of:

He could of won.

It should be:

He could've won.
He could have won.

And so forth.

Pet peeve time:

Loose and Lose.

"My shoelace is loose."
"He did not want to lose his way."

NOT

"I win and you loose."

Thank-you for allowing me to rant.

Let me rant too:

NEVER! use the abbreviation of a nation in an RP, especially NOT in sports-RPing, the only example to this rule would be if a nation consists of an abbreviation or it is really common to use it. So 'Insane Inflation' instead of 'II', but you can use 'USA'.

In a series, you put a comma between every item. So, "red, white, and blue" is correct. "Red, white and blue" is absolutely, positively incorrect, unless you're saying "white and blue" to somebody named Red. It is not an option. It is there to eliminate the chance that the last two items are confused as an unit.

http://www.swcp.com/info/essays/serial-comma.htm
http://www.bartleby.com/141/strunk.html#2

[edit]
In Britian, the serial comma is called the Oxford comma, as the Oxford University Press appears to be in favor of its use. Other British style guides do not enforce this use. It appears to be an optional rule for British English. American style guides, however, agree that the serial comma should be used, except for newspaper style guides, which favor no comma (they tend to follow rules which favor the printed page).

Well, to get vaguely back on topic, thanks, I think this thread is great, I may be (not maybe ;)) new here but I've been on other forums before and I know that there's nothing more annoying than having to try and dechiper a post someone has written in txt spk. Keep up the good work!

I'm all for checking spelling in word processors, but would warn people to be careful when using then to check grammar - MSWord can come up with some really crazy things, for example, I once had it wanting to change; "By the end of the war several million people had been killed." to; "The end of the war killed several million people." Which clearly do not mean the same thing!

As for accents I think you have too keep in mind that there may well be people reading your posts for whom English is not their first langauge. I am English, but am studying in Germany at the moment and can't tell you how hard it was for me to try and understand some literature I was meant to be studying which had been written to sound colloquial. I know my German isn't perfect, but I have no idea how regional accents distort the spoken language so didn't even know what I should be trying to look up in my dictionary, something you should definately keep in mind when accenting people's dialogue.

As for commas in lists, as a Brit I was always taught that a comma should never preceed an "and", but I admit this can cause problems when you want to show that more than two things count as one element in a list. Aah the inaccuracies of the English langauge :)

This is the funniest example I've ever seen of "What not to post." It's pretty mature language, so I'm not putting up the image, but here's the linky:

Grammar Checking Flame (http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2004-11-03&res=l)

OOC:

I like that link, Kaukolastan. That being said, I don't think proper grammar necessarily translates into garnering more respect - although expressing yourself clearly certainly won't detract from it. I think other things such as: avoiding godmoding, a willingless to work things out over telegrams, not mixing up OOC and IC, and so on also will raise the respect level of a roleplayer.

All of these grammar points can be easily accessed from a good grammar book. I'm also reminded of what the Grammar Lady said, "The purpose of grammar is not to diagram sentences, but to communicate clearly with others."

This isn't a be-all, end-all thread, nor should it be viewed as such. Rather, this is a springboard, a jumping point to access the nuances of NS gameplay. After all, one can't be expected to perform a double-jump-and-headshot if one can't find the space bar.

A thought just crept on into this little room I sit in when at the computer, and hit me.

OW!

Anyway, this thought revolved around a conversation (brief or no) regarding accents. So I thought I'd throw my ten pence worth in; personally, I don't like accents in writing, such as,

He stared at the man for a moment, unbelieving. "Zo. You wult tink to take my werry own dawter?"

Admittedly, I'm not good at the accent thing anyhow, and I've seen far better than the above example. But I still don't like it. Personally, I think its far more interesting to try to use different terminology to denote accent.

To give an example; a person from London uses different words in different ways to a person from Liverpool - the style is different. If we know where the characters are from, and we know two characters are from two different places, but they speak with the same vocabulary, then things do not appear to be correct. Therefore, I prefer to change styles for different characters from different places. This method equally (if not more than) highlights their origins, I feel.

For example, a member of the Nobility in my nation, specifically a Nenyan of a high Bloodline from the city of Nenya might say, "'Twas but the merest of woes; yet did it sting greatly."

But a Dth'gari Human of Citizen status from Turath would say, "Nah, it weren't that bad a problem; but it sure was hard on me and mine."

Whereas I, being born in London, would possibly say, "Bloody hell that was tough to get through - wouldn't have thought it from such a little thing, though."

Another point: bad grammar in dialogue isn't always bad. It's not easy to remember that the vast majority of people do not speak in a formal manner when we happen to be writing; it's easy to fall into the trap of everybody speaking properly and perfectly, which diminishes the variation in the dialogue - which makes it appear shallow, empty, and hollow.

That doesn't mean everybody ought to talk as if they never went to school or they haven't learnt English properly; instead, it's simple to throw in a small error or blemish here or there to add authenticity.

Such as, "I did indeed see him. He went that way," could become, "I did indeed see him. He went thattaway."

And so on.

I find this to be a very interesting thread, thank you very much for posting it. I am a fairly new member to the forum, but I have been reading through the posts extensively. There are a good number of threads that I have read that are quite interesting, then there are the others which are littered with basic spelling errors that could have been easily taken care of simply with the help of MS Word. I keep a blank copy of a Word document on my desktop for the sole reason of the spell check. I drop any important text into the document and run a spell check just for the added peace of mind. If I am working on a storyline, I make sure to write it in a Word document to be safe. It really does not take any additional effort to do so I have found. The one thing to also be wary of is that Word will not catch a slip up in the event you use an incorrect word in a sentence that is spelled correctly. i.e. Standing so close to the fire, I could feel the heart that it generated as if it was burning my skin. Oops, I meant to say "heat that it generated".. too late, Word dismissed it as it was spelled correctly. On another point, I have not read any comments on punctuation related to ending sentences with... I have had a bad habit lately which I use this frequently to end sentences.. then continue on with the point. Can anyone offer their opinions on this? It would be greatly appreciated.
I am glad I joined simply to get a chance to improve my writing style. I was very fond of creative writing when I was in grammar school, unfortunately it fell to the wayside as time went by and other priorities came before me. This was a great post though! Thanks much!

I find this to be a very interesting thread, thank you very much for posting it. I am a fairly new member to the forum, but I have been reading through the posts extensively. There are a good number of threads that I have read that are quite interesting, then there are the others which are littered with basic spelling errors that could have been easily taken care of simply with the help of MS Word. I keep a blank copy of a Word document on my desktop for the sole reason of the spell check. I drop any important text into the document and run a spell check just for the added peace of mind. If I am working on a storyline, I make sure to write it in a Word document to be safe. It really does not take any additional effort to do so I have found. The one thing to also be wary of is that Word will not catch a slip up in the event you use an incorrect word in a sentence that is spelled correctly. i.e. Standing so close to the fire, I could feel the heart that it generated as if it was burning my skin. Oops, I meant to say "heat that it generated".. too late, Word dismissed it as it was spelled correctly. On another point, I have not read any comments on punctuation related to ending sentences with... I have had a bad habit lately which I use this frequently to end sentences.. then continue on with the point. Can anyone offer their opinions on this? It would be greatly appreciated.
I am glad I joined simply to get a chance to improve my writing style. I was very fond of creative writing when I was in grammar school, unfortunately it fell to the wayside as time went by and other priorities came before me. This was a great post though! Thanks much!
Using a lot of elipsises (...) is a bad idea. It can be used in dialogue to demonstrate someone trailing off in the middle of a thought, but should never be used as part of your narration. It should also be used sparingly. Too much of it suggests that your character can't finish a complete thought to save their lives, and is very distracting.

Another important detail is knowing when to use paragraph breaks. Just typing continuously, even with good punctuation, makes it difficult to read your writing. Learn to identify when you're on a new topic and use a paragraph break for it. One example is when writing dialogue, you always go to a new paragraph when the speaker changes, even for one-word or one-sentence paragraphs. It becomes easier with practice.

In a series, you put a comma between every item. So, "red, white, and blue" is correct. "Red, white and blue" is absolutely, positively incorrect, unless you're saying "white and blue" to somebody named Red. It is not an option. It is there to eliminate the chance that the last two items are confused as an unit.

Oh, Tiborita. (sings) Did you every know that you're my hero?
The Oxford comma is one of those grammatical widgets that seems to be falling by the wayside. People say, "Oh, but it's becoming accepted to not use it blah blah blah." This is where style guides fail: they let silly people's writing tell them what is ok sometimes. Yes, in spoken language what is accepted (to an extent) becomes what is right, but writing is different and this comma is necessary for clarity. Thank you, dear.

Sam sat on a chair holding his laptop to his chest in his smallish house placed firmly on the Isle of Man, he scrolled down the page using his index finger on the touch pad, and found a thread which was named Respect on the Forums?. Intrigued by this, he double clicked, opening the link in front of him. He proceeded to read the title; Quick and Easy Steps to Better Writing. Sam stopped, and thought about this. He always considered himself a good writer, but maybe this would help him in posting threads in the future.

He looked back at the screen and read what Kaukolastan had written on this subject.

When he had finished, he was astounded. He could clearly see what he had been doing wrong in Role Plays.

He clicked on the reply button straight away, and proceeded to write a message of thanks;

That was a G8 post man, its the stuff that everyone should learn. Nice work!! Sam

Smiling, Sam felt that he had conveyed his thanks, and went back to writing his own RP

Oh, Tiborita. (sings) Did you every know that you're my hero?
The Oxford comma is one of those grammatical widgets that seems to be falling by the wayside. People say, "Oh, but it's becoming accepted to not use it blah blah blah." This is where style guides fail: they let silly people's writing tell them what is ok sometimes. Yes, in spoken language what is accepted (to an extent) becomes what is right, but writing is different and this comma is necessary for clarity. Thank you, dear.

Pray tell, Tiborita and Baklavaria: is there any ambiguity in the sentence "Anthony went to school with his aunt, the principal, and a backpack."

Yes, there is. Did Anthony go to school with his aunt, a backpack and a third person who is the principal, or did he go school with his aunt, who happens to be the principal, and a backpack.

Alternatively, without the Oxford comma, this sentence would read "Anthony went to school with his aunt, the principal and a backpack." The only possible source of confusion would suggest that Anthony's aunt is both a principal and a backpack, which can be dismissed as ridiculous and not true ambiguity.

In short, the Oxford comma is usually the correct way to go. However, as in so many things, there can be no absolute. There are several instances (which are not particularly uncommon in everyday speech or writing) in which the Oxford comma creates ambiguity that did not exist without it. I'm in favor of using the comma on a case-by-case basis; should you feel that it is necessary for the meaning of the sentence, add it. If you feel that adding it would lend confusion as to the meaning of the sentence, delete it.

Pray tell, Tiborita and Baklavaria: is there any ambiguity in the sentence "Anthony went to school with his aunt, the principal, and a backpack."

Yes, there is. Did Anthony go to school with his aunt, a backpack and a third person who is the principal, or did he go school with his aunt, who happens to be the principal, and a backpack.

This is why we should bring back more archaic breaks!

"Anthony went to school with his aunt -- the principal -- and a backpack."
"Anthony went to school with his aunt (the principal), and a backpack."

Or just re-arrange the word order...

"Anthony went to school with the principal, a backpack, and his aunt."

I need sleep...

This is why we should bring back more archaic breaks!

"Anthony went to school with his aunt -- the principal -- and a backpack."
"Anthony went to school with his aunt (the principal), and a backpack."

Or just re-arrange the word order...

"Anthony went to school with the principal, a backpack, and his aunt."

I need sleep...
The problem there is that parenthesis and hyphens are "speedbumps" in writing: they jolt the reader, and that's bad. Rather, I would clause it out.

IE:

"Anthony went to school with his aunt, the principal, and a backpack."

-becomes-

"Anthony went to school with his aunt, who was the principle, and a backpack."

-or rearrange the order-

"Anthony went to school with his aunt, his backpack, and the principle."

In the former, it is quite clear that his aunt is the principle, thanks to the subordinate clause, while in the latter, the words are arranged to prevent confusion (unless his aunt is a backpack).

However, this thread is not to argue the nuances of grammar, but the basic principles of good writing. Hence, I didn't get into clauses or other technical mechanics.

It's that God damn phonics they tought us. It turned out a generation that can't write or speak correctly.

This is a great thread, which should be read by everyone in these forums. The problem with that is that the people who would benefit from this the most probably don't have the attention span, or even the intellectual acumen, to read through the entire thread. That having been said, I've got a little contribution.

As I understand it, there is no such word as 'alright'. It's 'all right'. Not that that stops me from using 'alright' in dialogue. It seems to be traveling from poor english/grammar to common slang. Another example of this is 'ain't', which is most definitely in the Dictionary. That doesn't necessarily make it legitimate. There's a big debate over 'alright': http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=19990604

Alright, that's my two cents. Er... I mean, 'all right'.

This thread really should be read by everyone. I, for one, am anal when it comes to grammar. However, through this thread, I have found errors I have made over and over.

In my slang writing, I tend to do this all the time... <---usually when it conects to the next thought. Nevertheless, I have to admit, that in my usual writing, I do it more often than I write periods... <---- I have recently been doing my best to avoid that mistake. Also, a great reminder for me was: Don't do this!!!! Excessive exclamation points.

Another reason I think everyone should read this is because I want to tear my hair out every time I see misuse of words: "than/then", "accept/except", or there/their/they're, and even "exercize/exorcise". (Likely my punctuation is off now!) These are basics and if someone is unsure, they should look it up.

I'm new at RP and I am not a good writer of any fiction. It doesn't help that I don't read any. The example of how to state something in a more descriptive way was wonderful, as I have a difficult time with painting a picture.

Now I probably over-used the italics, but I just wanted those points to stand out.

Thanks everyone!

Wheeeeeeeeeeeee!

I, for one, am anal when it comes to grammar.
Greetings.

We tend to believe that grammar is more oral than anal. There is more fine control associated with the buccal orifice than the rectal orifice, and facial muscles guiding lips are much better than other kinds of muscle groups when it comes to pronunciation. Hence the grammar of most languages is most often worked out and established by writing or speaking. Aspiring grammatists should note this.

I'm not certain if it's been mentioned yet, but my chief pet peeve is seeing people type in "leet" (or any other stylised net language out there) instead of English. Is speaking substandard English somehow cool or respectable among the young? Just type in English. If it takes you too long to do that, learn how to properly type! Learning how to use the home row isn't as difficult as you might think. After all, you learn the bulk of how to type within the first two months of a keyboarding class. TWO MONTHS! Is that so much of a burden, kids?

I'm wondering if any of you are as vehemently opposed to "netspeak," or whatever it's properly called, as I am.

Style is an important consideration. Not everyone agrees on the correct style to use, but I believe it's commonly understood that the most important aspect is consistency. For example: when I was in school I learned that it's acceptable to write lists with a comma before the word "and" preceeding the last item, or without. What is not acceptable is to use both styles in the same document. Either you use it or you don't. You get to choose but once you've chosen, stick with it.

I've found it not unusual to see forum posters use italics to indicate when someone is speaking. This is something of a shock for me to read, because I grew up reading literature when italics were only used for emphasis or to denote unspoken thoughts. I confess I have difficulty reading large blocks of text in this format, and I've recently learned that I'm not the only one. However, honesty compels me to admit that this is not an invalid style, merely a different choice. When these people write, I can generally be assured that I'll recognise text denoting spoken words because they'll always be italicised. Ultimately, this is good so long as it is consistent.

The forums and the web in general allow for a broader expression of creativity than was common with mere printed text. It's easier to format your work with different fonts, colours and styles to demonstrate different modes of communication and action. The two vital things to remember while exploring your creativity is that it's important not to lose your audience in the process, and that you must always be consistent within the context of your story arc.

This is a great thread, which should be read by everyone in these forums. The problem with that is that the people who would benefit from this the most probably don't have the attention span, or even the intellectual acumen, to read through the entire thread. That having been said, I've got a little contribution.

As I understand it, there is no such word as 'alright'. It's 'all right'. Not that that stops me from using 'alright' in dialogue. It seems to be traveling from poor english/grammar to common slang. Another example of this is 'ain't', which is most definitely in the Dictionary. That doesn't necessarily make it legitimate. There's a big debate over 'alright': http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=19990604

Alright, that's my two cents. Er... I mean, 'all right'.

I don't touch this one with a ten-foot pole. Such is the wonder of the synonym that "OK", "fine", "good", etc. can skirt around this nicely.

I would like to add that all of you are truly gods among men for posting and contributing to this thread. I am also very anal (or oral, as Roathin pointed out) regarding correct grammar. Unfortunately I did not take the time to read this thread in its entirety, but I will some day. My mother teaches ESL (English as a Second Language) and has thus turned me into a walking MLA guide.

I would like to add (if it has not already been stated) rules about the usage of good and well.



The word good is an adjective. It is used to describe a noun.

For example:
That chocolate pudding was good.

Good is not the best word of choice in this sentence and I would recommend delicious, fantastic, or palatable, but I believe good gets the point across.



The word well is an adverb. It is used to describe how something was done.

For example:
We played very well on Saturday.


There you have it! Good and well, used correctly. I would like to remind all of you that there will be a short quiz next period.

That

"That" is one of the most over-used words in the English language. Here's a couple of simple rules for avoiding using it too often.

Say the sentance outloud without "that" in it. If the point of the sentance is understandable without "that" in it, take it out.

If it's not understandable without "that", try saying the sentance again with "which" instead. If it works, change it.

If the sentance doesn't work without "that", then you leave it in the sentance.

I would like to add (if it has not already been stated) rules about the usage of good and well.

Um...You realise the most common abuse of that is in speech, which doesn't have to be grammatically perfect anyway because people don't talk like that in real life?

And yet, you'd be suprised at the number of people who write how they speak.

This is probably the silliest thread I've encoutered in nearly 15 years of browsing BBS's

This is probably the silliest thread I've encoutered in nearly 15 years of browsing BBS'sI'm guessing I can see why you'd think that.

Now, now Treznor. There's no need to point out mistakes; even funny ones like that... :rolleyes:

I do not know if someone already mentioned this, but it'd and it'll are neither proper contractions nor proper english. I am near positive that you cannot contract it and will or it and would at all.
This was supposed to sound polite, but it is really hard to sound polite when correcting someone.

I do not know if someone already mentioned this, but it'd and it'll are neither proper contractions nor proper english. I am near positive that you cannot contract it and will or it and would at all.
This was supposed to sound polite, but it is really hard to sound polite when correcting someone.Hmm...perhaps if you'd...

Nah. It'll never work. This isn't about perfect grammar, it's about telling a story with the appropriate use of language. It'd be thoroughly boring to have street-level punks chatting amicably over a cup of tea like a pair of university professors.

Hmm...perhaps if you'd...

Nah. It'll never work. This isn't about perfect grammar, it's about telling a story with the appropriate use of language. It'd be thoroughly boring to have street-level punks chatting amicably over a cup of tea like a pair of university professors.

I actually think that would be hilarious...

"I say, should we knock over a liquor store this evening?"

"Why not, my good colleague? Let's begin making preparation for our outing immediately and procure a properly indistinct mode of transportation."

"Quite right. We will doubtlessly need appropriate armaments as well. I will seek to acquire them from an extraordinarily resourceful acquaintance of mine."

"Wonderful. I shall meet you at seven o'clock this evening at our usual rendezvous location."

I actually think that would be hilarious...

"I say, should we knock over a liquor store this evening?"

"Why not, my good colleague? Let's begin making preparation for our outing immediately and procure a properly indistinct mode of transportation."

"Quite right. We will doubtlessly need appropriate armaments as well. I will seek to acquire them from an extraordinarily resourceful acquaintance of mine."

"Wonderful. I shall meet you at seven o'clock this evening at our usual rendezvous location."

Stereotypical English gangsters?

'I say, Cuthbert, I appear to be bleeding somewhat profusedly from the wounding that policeman administered with his firearm.'

'Gosh. How vexing. Let's play cricket and drink tea and such.'

'What a super idea. This jape's rather worn out its welcome.'

Stereotypical English gangsters?

More like high-class blaggers, which I would see as nothing like stereotypical. :D

"Oh, bloody hell, I do believe I've lost most of my spleen and stained your vestments."

"It's quite alright, ole' chum, nothing a good scrubbing couldn't get out."

"Well, I was quite tired of life anyway. Cheerio!" *Dies*

Anywho, talking in character is different than the narrator voice. Using a narrator point of view different than your own, or a neutral observer, can be interesting (read Huck Finn for an example. Twain was an excellent grammarian, but the the Adventures of Huckleberry Finn are written in a thick southern accent that makes the story).

However be sure to change from a "speaking" perspective to a neutral "good grammar" perspective as needed. Nothing would throw a story curveball more than reading about a stock meeting at a Fortune 500 company that sounded like a couple of hookers and a pimp arguing over cocaine.

Quiet: the absence of noise.

Quite: intended to add emphasis to the statement.

Examples:

Joe shook his head. I don't like it, he thought. It's too quiet.


"That will be quite enough!" snapped Lt Foxworthy. "Sergeant, place that man under arrest!"

--------------

As for "good" only being an adjective ... how about phrases such as "the greater good?" :p

Quiet: the absence of noise.

Quite: intended to add emphasis to the statement.

Examples:

Joe shook his head. I don't like it, he thought. It's too quiet.


"That will be quite enough!" snapped Lt Foxworthy. "Sergeant, place that man under arrest!"

--------------

As for "good" only being an adjective ... how about phrases such as "the greater good?" :p

I'm sorry my friend, but this is what all of us call grave digging. Sure it's a good thread, but nobody has posted here for two years. Generally it's bad taste to dig up such an old thread. I suggest you consult the stickies, because they contain most of this stuff. Besides, this was made back when we switched from the old forums.