NationStates Jolt Archive

To my fellow National Leaders,

For nearly sixty years the world has been under the hegemony of two global dictator. These dictators come not in the form of any persons or national governments, but in the form of two global institutions appointed by many nations. This dictators purpose is to promote the global economic interests of only one nation.

These institutions are the World Bank and The International Monetary Fund.

For sixty years these institutions have controlled the global economy by forcing the many countries that owe them vast sums of money into economic practices that are detrimental to themselves and benefit only the richest of nations.

This is the greatest of injustices. Thousands of people die of strvation and disease every minute becuase this is allowed to happen.

However we do not have to allow it.

It is within the power of those nations to end this now.

There is an old saying, "If you owe the bank a thousand dollars, you're in trouble. If you owe the bank a million dollars, the banks in trouble."

If every nation that owes the World Bank and the IMF money was to say, on the same day, that they were going to do like certain nations have done and default on their loans, then both the IMF and the World Bank could no longer exist.

It is within our power to do this, but we must do it responsibly.

It is not enough to merely say that we will do this, we must say 'that we will do this unless...'

It is up to us, My Fellow National Leaders, to shape the new world.

W can create a world where by we are ruled by our consent, rather than by those who have paid to be our rulers.

I therefore invite you, to discuss this amongst yourselves, amongst your people.

Let us create a better world for our children.

Augustus Owsley,

Patrician.
The Community of Nerdle.

"We cannot support, nor show attitudes against this endeavour, considering that we do not have a source of debt, but are a source of debt ourselves. Much like the World Bank, we loan money to, unprivilaged nations. If the people who owe us money were to default, it would result in economic damage to our own economy."

President Edward Grove
The Federal Republic of Austar Union

There is one problem with your proposal - the credit rating.

Let's say you told your bank you were going to stop paying your mortgage. They go, "Okay, fine." And they take your house. And they make sure nobody, ever, will ever lend you a single cent again. So, they get the last laugh, there's no question.

Same thing applies to nations. Any nation that says they're simply not going to pay, gets an instant F credit rating. Their currency drops, their economic strength - assuming they had any to begin with - falters. Now, if these nations had the money, surely they would pay off their loans - so it's clear they're not exactly rolling in cash. Defaulting on their loans does not solve the problems that necessitated deficit spending to begin with - poverty, war, corruption, and so forth. So those countries are going to find themselves needing money again...

....only now they have nowhere to get it.

Nobody will lend to them.

Nobody will buy their currency.

Nobody will buy their bonds.

Nobody will invest in their economy.

The only way they have to get money is either through warfare and conquest, which is expensive up front (and no fool of a dictator forgets to pay the people who have the power to overthrow him - his soldiers), or through crippling taxation, which only exacerbates the economic dilemma. Furthermore, you have no idea whether the creditors of the nation - the developed nations that loaned them money to begin with - will come to 'take the house', enforcing their "creditors' privilege" by means of their own vastly superior armed forces.

In short, the suggestion you have made is foolish and irresponsible, and will only lead to much suffering and strife, and could even imbalance the global economy. It would simply make things worse for the countries you apparently want to help. They might feel good for a few weeks or even months, but it will be the rich nations that have the last laugh in the end.

~Lady Serindë nos Eärendil
Prefect of Trade
Eternal Noldorin Empire of Menelmacar

that assumes that the current system of credit rating would remain.

the IMF and world bank would need to be replaced by an international clearing union, which would utilise a much simpler system that would not allow the accumulation of debt.

it is a model that is explained in much greater depth in 'Age of Consent: A Manifesto for a New World Order' by George Monbiot.

I would advise reading it.

Augustus Owsley

Of course it would remain. Aside from the fact you fail to suggest an alternative source of funds for nations unable to develop their economies on their own, the fact remains that no sane lender would ever loan money to someone they expect to refuse to pay the money back. Such borrowers are what is referred to as a "credit risk".

This is a model explained in much greater depth in a high school course called "Introductory Accounting".

I would advise taking it.

~Lady Serindë nos Eärendil
Prefect of Trade, Eternal Noldorin Empire of Menelmacar

As founder and Chairnation of the World Bank, Pure Evil, would like to remind all other nations that the World Bank does have more than enough money/resources in it's vaults that such an action would not caused us to fall apart.

Yes, we would be crippled for some time but ALL loans will be followed up and arrangement will be made for the repayment of these loans.

Before a loan is given to a country the World Bank require proof that it will only be used to civil projects and NOT military project, this is mainly to stop regional arms races and world wars.

SEOCC is 2nd in command.

The United African Republic of Lusaka, as one of the world's largest "3rd world" states (though we as socialists may be better classified as 2nd world to those who actually give a damn about what the terms really mean) continues to extole the virtues of the radical Igomo Social Progress Party's path out of debt and oppression. In the late 1970s and early 1980s, the down-trodden population of Roycelandian East Africa rose up in arms and simply obliterated the capitalist and imperialist systems imposed by Roycelandia, withdrawing Roycelandian currency and never replacing it, opting instead to operate a communistic economy without currency. Never has Lusaka sought a lone, and Igomo continues to maintain that no African peoples (and presumably no other 3rd world societies) need sink so low. Despite Lusaka's on-going problems, the nation has held itself together and protected its residents without ever applying for a loan from any source. In this world of nation states, Igomo holds, there is no need to bed pennies from the capitalists, who are invariably also self interested imperialists, as the under-classes of old are now large and diverse enough to support one another. Igomo emplores the third world instead to look to other pauper states willing to trade from means to needs and vice versa. Loans should simply be ignored by truly progressive governments, and no mass uniformity is required in defaulting such things. Advanced socialist societies shall suffer nothing from obsolete capitalist retaliation short of the military, and should it come to this sad and pathetic end of capitalist steel against human spirit, the result is written in the Sub-Saharan African dirt- the people will always prevail.

We cannot support the proposal as it would encourage nations who cannot manage their our economies to keep on with obselete practices and nations who are economically competent will be penalised for building trade surpluses. If you can't pay your debts, reform and don't borrow beyond your means.

God bless

International debt is a scourge inflicted on the poor, a system grounded in fundamental injustice. In our attitude to this question, we are guided by the words of His Holiness Pope John Paul II in the apostolic letter Tertio Millenio Adveniente:

Thus, in the spirit of the book of Leviticus (25:8-12), Christians will have to raise their voice on behalf of all the poor of the world, proposing the Jubilee as an appropriate time to give thought, among other things, to reducing substantially, if not canceling outright, the international debt which seriously threatens the future of many nations.

Tragically this call from was not accepted in the year 2000 and international debt continues to afflict the world.

Debt grinds us down, makes the poor prisoners in cages of shimmering gold, hostages to the whims of those whose only religion is the worship of Money, whose only care is endless accumulation, who crush the majority world beneath them. Debt is so often created by borrowers who are dictators, who invoke "odious debts" that they spend on pleasure palaces for themselves: these debts cannot be considered binding on their nations. Other debts stack up as poor countries try to meet a development model imposed form outside, then are robbed of the markets they need to make this model work by the protectionsim of the rich countries, or who are forced to offer sweatshop labour just to feed their people.

The rich lend their money; but the poor lend them their labour, their environments, their very soul, to the altar of international financial institutions.

Any poor state that reneges on these "debts" is punished by the armed force and monopoly power of the wealthy predator states. The only alternative lies in mutual sef-help and solidarity among the poor states. There are self-help organizations that provide interest-free credit to other Third World states under the terms of the declarations of Golden Agate and Matebian. There is the Intenrational Fair Trade Agreement, which avoids the race to the bottom by providing a vast market of billions where sweatshop labout is not permitted. These alternative economic systems are now large enough that no country need resort to the debtors prisons offered by the banks of the wealthy states. Together, even the poorest states are strong.

La'o hamutuk, mau bere! Walk together!

Father Constanctio Ainaro
People's representative for social justice
United Provinces of Tanah Burung

God doesn't exist, and if he did, he wouldn't waste his time on frivolous issues such as International Debt. That's an issue humans created themselves. God's going to do jack shit about debt, and the naive thought that richer countries should just forgive debt is implausable.

If the richer countries forgave all debt right now, then the third world countries would fall into debt again and want another loan. If they give another loan, and forgive that debt, then the third world would take advantage of the richer countries and spend their infinite supply of money on military and other things they don't need. The world can't work around people being forgiving and sharing their resources.

This model is described in more depth in the book "Communism Manifesto" and other works by Mark Engel and Karl Marx.

I suggest you read into it.