NationStates Jolt Archive

As some of you may know, my nation is run according to a unique ideology which my people call Universalism. For those of you who may be interested in learning more about the Universalist ideology, please just follow the link in my signature. It will take you to my first thread, where I thoroughly outline this perhaps controversial ideology.

Now, the back story behind the foundation of Universalist Totality is that millions of Univeralists from across the galaxy left their homeworlds and converged on the planet Forge in true Pioneer fahsion to build what they hoped would become a utopian society. As some of you may have noticed, this at once presents great RP potential, as well as many unanswered questions. Where exactly did they come from? Why did they leave? Where the repressed for their beliefs? How did they get to Forge in the first place? These are all questions that need answering. This is where you can help me.

I ask two things.
1) I am looking for nations who would be willing to declare that they have a small fringe group of Universalists amongst their citizens. This would help me establish where exactly my people come from, where their family and friends are. For those willing to take on this role, I can assure you that I won't be attempting to provoke some kind of Universalist coupe in your nations. But there are so many ways I could use this. For example, anymosity between different racial and cultural groups. People aren't perfect, and no matter how high their ideals, slapping together people from different backgrounds and forcing them to live and build together is bound to cause friction. If you are interested in this, a short post describing your people will suffice.

2) If someone would like to become more deeply involved in helping me create a backstory for my nation, for example by helping me tell the story of the exodus of one particular group of people, I would be absolutely thrilled to work with you. This way, the story of my nation could be told from both the perspective of the immigrants, as well as the homeland they left behind.

I hope you will all consider my request. Thanks for reading through, I'll be awaiting your feedback.

A weary bump, in hopes that someone will actually take interest. :(

Interesting...but it wouldn't work for my nation. Sorry bout that.

I'd love to help you out! My people (Palladians (http://www.noyuo.com/wiki/index.php?PalladianSociety)) have a small theistic population, and I'd love to have them be part of your nation. :D Our home planet, Eness, is 22ly away from Earth (towards the galactic core). Perhaps you'd like to situate your planet/system nearby? If you like my ideas (and past work (http://www.noyuo.com/wiki/index.php?The%20Enlightened%20Technocracy%20of%20Palladia)), I'd be glad to help you out more!

EDIT: After reading over your signature thread a bit more, I noted two very important things:
and do declare that the right to private wealth ... must be protected by federal law.
Work, being the source of our nation’s well being, should also act as a factor in the spiritual evolution of the individual.
Because private wealth is illegal and work is done by machines in the Palladian Technate, this is adequate grounds for the Palladian portion of your population to leave the Technate and join a more fitting group.

P4lladia, you've given me much to read and much to ponder. I'd love to work with you! I need a little time to look things over. I'll telegram you once I've formulated my thoughts, if thats okay with you. Thanks for contacting me, I think we're going to have alot of fun together. ;)

OOC: Well, in a little while I'm planning on having a situation in which people will be leaving Santa Barbara. Some might go to your place. But this is wouldn't work for a historical thing as in the past, since it hasn't happened yet.

OOC: Well, in a little while I'm planning on having a situation in which people will be leaving Santa Barbara. Some might go to your place. But this is wouldn't work for a historical thing as in the past, since it hasn't happened yet.

Well, we could plan it as a future event. When were you thinking of doing this?

I'm waiting on someone to deliver an agent via seagull vectors. Should be soonish, hopefully. From now til like, sometime later than now.

If you'd like to play this out as a Universalist exodus, just let me know when you are ready. I'd be thrilled to roleplay with you. :)

P4lladia, just some initial thoughts. Please give any input you may have.

1) I like the idea of situating Forge's solar system close to your own. I'm thinking that the Universalist exodus from P4lladia to Forge would be the first of its kind that would trigger similar movements throughout the galaxy. Therefore, the history of Forge and the Universalist Totality would start in P4lladia! This could also mean that P4lladians make up the majority of Forge's migrant population...lets say a clean 51%. Do you have maybe a space map that shows the location of your system, and that my new system could be attached to? If not, would you be interested in helping me create one?

2) I think you've come up with an excellent motive for Universalist P4lladian's to leave for Forge. Though Universalists are anti-materialists, they do believe in the right to personal accumilation, as well as the spiritual growth that work can provide. Obviously, if a Universalist fringe group were established in a society such as your own, its followers, if they were true to its ideals, would find their living conditions to be unbearable. But this brings about another issue which I would like your input on. What series of events would bring the Universalists to leave P4lladia. I thought of four alternatives:
a) They decide to leave with little fuss, to live however they like, and the P4lladian government could care less. No hard feelings.
b) The government persecutes them for their beliefs, and so they are basically forced to flee the country and hope to survive. The government doesn't mind seeing them go.
c) The same as b) only that the government forces actually give chase, determined to erradicate their rogue citizens...(which could create a history of anymosity between our two nations).
d) After a failed attempt to overthrow the P4lladian government and establish a new order, the Universalists are banished, and so must find a new home.
Which would you prefer?

3) Would you mind if I used your military and space technology as portrayed on your web page? I'm thinking that since the majority of my populace is P4lladian, they would have brought the technology along with them.

4) Lastly, would you mind making a map of my homeworld, Forge, or at least helping me to do so. You have an absolutely beautiful map of P4lladia, and I would love to have one for my own planet.

Well, those are my thoughts for now. I eagerly await your input. ;)

Hm... This is an interesting topic...

Universalist Totality, if you wish, you could become one of the groups of migrants that moved from Terra (Earth) to space, travelling in massive colonization ships until they arrive at their location. Let's say the bulk of my people emigrated to the M96 Galaxy about 35-40 million light years away, but a small group emigrated to another place...

1) That sounds quite spiffy, and I like it. :D Here's a quick and dirty diagram I hammered out in paint:
http://images.noyuo.com/ns-galaxy.png
Eness, our planet, is 22 lightyears away from Earth. I'm sure you can make a better map than I can, so by all means go ahead. Forge could fit in anywhere on there...space is a big place, after all!

2) B and C are simply not possible, we don't persecute, and anyone is free to go. A is very likely, but kind of boring. D is great, it's exciting, could take place in an RP, and is probable, considering that a group of rebels could never stand up to the mighty Technate! :D Further, if you want us to be peaceful, we'll simply exile you. If you prefer the animosity, we can give chase (after you hijack some ships?). So, to answer your question, I prefer D with a twist. ;)

3) Mi technologia es su technologia! Every starship has a compliment of most military machines, so you'd have some to start with. You could reverse engineer my stuff and manufacture your own, or we could export to you, depending on which route to independence you choose... In short, yes, it's all yours. :D

4) I made my map with Fractal Mapper (http://www.nbos.com/products/mapper/mapper.htm), which is a free download. You can't save with the trial version, so make sure you finish it in one sitting and export to PNG. Also, the included tutorial is quite helpful.

Also, The Mindset has made a new Galactic map, which is not necessarily accurate, but an excellent symbolic representation of the relative positions of the various space nations. The thread is here (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=346882), so you should have yourself added. :D

Hm... This is an interesting topic...

Universalist Totality, if you wish, you could become one of the groups of migrants that moved from Terra (Earth) to space, travelling in massive colonization ships until they arrive at their location. Let's say the bulk of my people emigrated to the M96 Galaxy about 35-40 million light years away, but a small group emigrated to another place...

That would be great! Would you like to Rp this somehow, or should we just agree that some of my people are decendants of your nation?

P4lladia as you've probably seen, I've requested a spot on Mindset's map. Its not very far from your borders, so this should work nicely.

Further thoughts on the issue at hand:

We've agreed then that the majority of Forge's population is of P4lladian decent, that the P4lladian exodus to Forge was the first of its kind, and that the Universalist Totality will be using technology similar or identical to that of P4lladia.

We also agree on the general scenario of the exodus: After a failed coupe in P4lladia, the surviving Universalists hijack several vessels, and attempt to escape. P4lladian forces give chace, but the majority of the vessels get away, and eventually land on the planet Forge. Along with the hijacked ships, they also bring a small quantity of military equipment, the skeleton and prototipe of what is to become their nations army.

I downloaded the map maker, thank you very much for the advice. Soon, I will have a map of Forge. Yaaaay!

Any other thoughts?

Sounds good to me. We should definitely RP this, should be interesting. I can't wait to see your world map. :D

One more thought. Some of the Universalists should be left behind, so that the scenario we were discussing via telegram may take place. We could finish off the RP with the exiles negotiating the evacuation of their comrades. P4lladia only agrees to a partial evacuation, perhaps because it wants to keep some of the friends and family of the exiles as insurance against future aggression? What do you think?

Also, the map might take a while. I can't seem to make one that I'm fully satisfied with. Any suggestions?

I don't like the idea of the Technate holding ransom against its exiles. Here's why:
6.35 If a citizen found he didn't like living in a Technate, would he be allowed to leave it for some other part of the world?

By all means. Why keep people here against their will when it would be to the advantage of the rest of the citizens for them to go? We rather doubt, however, whether there will be any marked incidence of such dissatisfaction. More people will probably be wanting to get into rather than out of the Technate.
Now, what could happen is that more Universalists come into existance somehow (propaganda?). They could be dissatisfied with conditions, like their forefathers, and take advantage of current conditions in their favor. Essentially, history repeats itself. Oh, and no offense, but we really don't need insurance against aggression by you...I outnumber you 80-to-1 and have a "frightening" economy. :D

One thing we haven't covered yet is when the initial separation takes place. Now or in the past? We have had our modern space fleet for around 50 years now (starting in 455CE), which are equipped with near-light-speed Gravitational Bias drives. Real FTL interstellar starships have been around since 470CE. Our first star system was colonized in 487CE. So, there are several windows for your exodus, yours for the choosing:
455-470: leave in sublight ships, just arrive at Forge recently.
470-487: somehow manage to hijack one or more of the few spacefold ships existing then, instantly teleport to Forge. This would also explain where my old FTL ships went. :D
487-505(now): commandeer warp-capable ships, arrive within a few days of leaving.
(note: all years are in Eness Common Era, a calendar independent from Earth's)

There are equally valid ways to reconcile every one of these possibilities, so it's simply up to you to decide which one you like best! :)

I see what you're saying. I like the idea of a second generation of Universalists on P4lladia. Their first transmission to Forge would cause quite a stir!

With the time scale I'm using right now, The Universalist Totality was founded only about 19 months ago. I would calculate that the first (the P4lladian) exodus to Forge happened maybe 15 years before that. So, we should count on this RP taking place some 17 years ago. The year then, by your scale, would be 488, correct?
Also, assuming that my star system is an even light year away from your own, how long would it take my refugees to reach Forge?

Also, Mindset is making a new map. Would you agree that both our homeworlds are 22 light years away from Earth, and that we are an even light year away from each other? Please advise.

Also, Mindset is making a new map. Would you agree that both our homeworlds are 22 light years away from Earth, and that we are an even light year away from each other? Please advise.
Yeah, that's fine with me. It's a bit unlikely that two immediately habitable planets would be so close to each other, but hey, this is fiction! (Unless Forge isn't habitable, and you had to make due with terraforming/pressure domes)

that other post
19 months ago would be in February of 504. So the failed coup and ensuing exile would indeed occur in 488 or 489. This is right after the Shertaeth colony was formed, in a neighboring star system. Perhaps this gives the Universalists the courage to take to the stars. In the late 480s, the Palladian fleet as it is today existed almost exactly, except for having a few less ships. So, you can take your pick from any of my currently existing ship classes.
Bodhi and Ahimsa-class ships are warp ships, and will arive at Forge within a day or so (a few hours for the Ahimsa-class). Class-2 through Class-7 all have Bias drives, and so would take around 15-16 months to reach Forge. Class-A/B/C cargo ships, I would not reccomend using, though some can fit in the docking bays of the larger warp ships. The Bodhi-class is made for human transportation, so 3 or 4 of those combined with the smaller military ships should work nicely.

How many Ahimsa-class ships would you be willing to spare?

I don't know, 5? These things are huge, after all. And it's not like a ragtag group of revolutionaries could capture much more than that. :D
I'll let you pick your own fleet. Just keep it reasonable...

I think 5 of the Ahimsa-class should be more than sufficiant. How many people could they carry all together?

Well, I'm sure you can fit a lot of people in them! :D
My guess would be between 3000-6000, depending on how crowded you want them to be. At the upper limits, I would imagine that elbow space would be nonexistant...
I made some changes to the fleet that you might want to check out. I changed up the crew numbers, weapons and assigned a length to every capital ship. The Class-8 Heavy Cruiser is brand new, so you don't get any of those. The Subsidized Warp Transportation Ring is also brand new, but that got me thinking, and you could probably tuck some smaller ships inside the rings of the Bodhi and Ahimsas with similar affect. Mostly transports, I would say, to get your people there faster.

Um, I'm kind of new to space tech RPing, and must admit that I'm kind of at a loss. I don't mean to make more work for you, but I really need some help. Could you please write up a model of the exodus fleet, along with a brief explanation of how you determined the numbers? It would be a great learning experience for me, I really would appreciate it.

Well, sure! This is the only work I have right now, don't feel bad about making me do stuff. :D

Naturally, a group of separatists will have difficulty procuring large space vehicles, especially military commissioned ones. So, we must determine the social composition of your group, here. Are they a military faction? Normal citizens in random jobs? Part of Continental Control? This all effects what kind of fleet you end up with...ordinary citizens, for example, are going to have a hell of a time boarding and capturing a Carrier, whereas military personell would have an easier time with it. And if they're not in the military, what kind of weapons do they have? Where did they get them? Your fleet will reflect the people riding in it.
The two warp ship classes and transports (including the Super Transport) are all civilan vehicles. So, if a member of your group happens to be a ship captain on one of those, it's already yours, you don't need to work for it at all. I'm practically giving these away, but there aren't a lot of them to begin with, so 10 of each is really pushing it. These are big ships, and they have military-grade guns on them.

So, let's say the Universalists are partly civilian, with some military folks in there for good measure. On the planet, in SkyCity, the coup is thwarted and the Director of Social Relations decides to exile you. You can choose wherever you want to go, but a colony had just been established in another solar system and you decide to go that route. Naturally, at this point, a state-sponsored Univeralist Colony would be unthinkable, but luckily some of your people are starship captains! Instantly you have 7 Bodhi-class and 5 Ahimsa-class starships at your command, complete with their small compliments of shuttles and transports. Some of you are transport crewmen, and you have some freighters to haul your belongings. Now, none of you are Technate citizens anymore, so you can't exactly hop on the ships and take off. That would be theivery. But, then again, what's wrong with that?

So, you have some tens of thousands of people crammed into these starships illegaly, like a van full of Mexican immigrants. You could be able to sneak out quietly, but chances are you'll be asked for ID the minute your engines turn on. But wait! The day of your hijinks, the military members happen to be at their posts, clearing out their lockers and getting ready to shove off for good, or so their captains think. As it turns out, there was a mutiny and the Palladian loyalists lost. A few destroyers, a cruiser or two, a couple frigates. Perhaps they managed to obtain some ships from some other country nobody's ever heard of. Stole some out of spacedock. The Palladian ships won't fire on the civilain vessels, too many lives at stake. They are reluctant to fire on the hijacked military vessels. A window of oppertunity! The warp ships fly off to who-knows-where. The military ships attempt to follow at their slow speed, sending out fighters to keep the Palladians busy. Particle Cannon bolts are flying everywhere, some ships go down, Universalists flee in escape pods. One of the warp ships come back! Outnumbered and outgunned, the Palladians withdraw, leaving the charred hulks of the downed ships. Captains yell at each other for awhile, finally the government lets the separatists go. What's a few ships in the interests of peace? Surely we don't want to crowd up orbit with starship debris.

So, here's what we have:
10-20 Bodhi/Ahimsa-class Interstellar Warp Cruisers, easily gotten, undamaged
3 Frigates, one by mutiny, two fresh out of spacedock. These are hot ships, better change the plates! Might get a hole or two put in them.
8 Destroyers, mutiny. 3 get turned into burnt-out shells.
5 Crusiers, mutiny and swiped from the shipyards. The destroyers took the hit for them, none are damaged.
10 Super Transports, stocked with people. The feds don't like to touch these, but some of the engines got melted anyway.
30 little transports, filled with suitcases, fleeing the scene of the crime with their little engines. The military blows up 6, but gives up after getting ripped apart by the cruisers' big guns.

...was this helpful or too much of a novel? :D

edit: this doesn't mean that the Technate wouldn't allow you to go peacefully to another planet, it's just an example, and an improbable one at that. We still need to hammer out the details.

I would much like to join this experience. My people are of several different Types, all robot. The Type most suited to the Universalist ideals would be the Gyhron Type. Gyhrons live life different from the other types becuse they are, for the most part, pacifist. They would rather enrich their lives than defend them. It is becuase of this that they evolve most every generation (They are only up to second generation prototypes and they can still hold out better than Zytath Types, the defenders of the Core itself, the nation's most prised artifact. Because they are pacifist, they are viewed as inferior and obsolete by their countrymen. They would give anything to leave Vocositor for a nation based more on enrichment. They would however need to have built their own core, becuase they cannot function without one to pull their collective conciousness together. Once they thought independently from the other Types, they could then build their own ship to travel to Forge. (A ship build by Gyhrons would be meticulous and based around their Lesser Core, and it would most likely use a wormhole to transport itself and its occupants.) They would arrive the instant they left, but due to something they would likely overlook: gravity (they experience gravity in terms of their Core), they would warp in to close to the planet and crash land, most likely on the smallest inhabitable island they could find, which would be where they would teleport over. They would then probably expand from there. What do you think of that story? I can easily fit this into any time period in my nation's history as long as it's in the Tolana Era or later (currently at the end of this Era, will enter the Golod Era once my population makes another jump, more on that later, if you wish). Essentially I can set this now, in my recent history, or in the future, whichever you wish. This Era began 610 Yalro, a little over twelve years, ago. Each era lasts 625 Yalro, or 25 Stre, as we live on a faster time scale. Feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

P4lladia

My friend, you are a true genious. :eek: Your response was more than I ever expected, and I thank you so much. I am highly pleased with the scenario you described, and am willing to adopt it with no contentions.
However, if there's anything you'd like to change, please let me know.
Once again P4lladia, bravo. You deserve a standing ovation.

(and the crowd goes wild)

Vocositor

I was quite intrigued by your post, and would very gladly work with you. Unfortunatly, this will have to happen at a later date, for two main reasons:
1) I'm absolutely flooded with work at the moment.
2) I'm going to need some time to figure out my nation's position on artificial life.
In the meanwhile, if you have any additional information about your nation, its history, etc., I would appreciate it if you would make it accessable to me. I would truly like to learn more about your intriguing nation.

I am fine with working on this later, as I have created a scenario which would cause further dissention by Gyhrons: I am bringing the next age on my next population jump, in this I am standardizing the entire race of Vocosians, which would cause the Gyhrons, who have spent the entire age building above the others, very upset.

In regards to your second point, I have posted on your thread on Artificial Life in order to clarify things for those people who were confused about the beings you asked about.

Also, I will soon be writing an in-depth story on my people and how they came to be. Basis of their origin: Vocor, suspected of taking origin in an omniscient race resolved by God to judge the creations not his own, in an effort to discover the nature of choice, came down to Terra and created a gigantic sphere of spectral material, known as the Core.
He then created the Vocosians, a race of mechanical people able to use pieces of the Core to choose for themself right from wrong. The Core linked them under a collective conciousness and allowed for instant spread of ideas among them. They became arogant however, and Vocor was forced to destroy them using the full force of the Core to rewrite the functions of its parts. The early Vocosians were immediately removed from existence.
Vocor then built a new race, with the ability to learn constantly and evolve generationally. He then had the Core as a whole construct smaller ersions of itself and instill them into the citizens. Every generation, a few more Minicores are added (next Era Microcores will be created instead) and taught by the collective of the other Minicores.
We are at a turning point now however, where each type is reunited by a common form, however long that will last. Also it is said that some Types are witholding information from the Core. This will be seen and dealt with in the future.

That's the story I have so far from their start up to the nar future.

Side note: I might not be on much tommorow due to Hurricane Charlie, could just be flooding though.

Hope to work with you soon.

And I with you, friend. Please do keep in touch, I would dearly love to watch the story of your nation unfold.

P4lladia, you around? Did you see my last post? I'm thinking maybe you missed it...

Heh, I haven't been around a lot the last two days (and came upon a brand new laptop to play with). :D Sorry about the wait...but thanks for the kind words!
Anyway, I assume that my little story was helpful in explaining my logic for the ship numbers. I've been trying to think of other scenarios that could happen, too, and came up with a few disjointed ideas. The thing that I wrote up was just an example, we are by no means constrained by that. A state-sponsored colony is entirely possible, though it might seem more than a bit illogical for your people to steal ships and sour our strained relationship for no good reason. Another thing that could happen is that the DUTettes raid shipyards in souped-up civilan vessels, under-construction ships usually aren't staffed with security personell. A more "political intrigue" scenerio would have the Shertaeth colony (which is notoriously capitalistic, Ferengi-style) resell Technate ships to you, which you use to attack us. One thing I should note, coup-stagers would be arrested and under tight security, which might provide grounds, however misguided, for attacking/stealing. I don't know, I'm just rambling by now.
My suggestion is to start an RP and play it by ear. A set plan or a script, in my opinion, wouldn't be as good as real-time diplomacy. Our leaders don't have the benefit of a script, and they/we shouldn't have to be constrained by set rules. The unexpected is quite welcome! We will surely be able to surprise each other, eh? ;)
But that's just me. This is your history, after all, your say matters more than mine. Of course, there's no rush to finalize anything, we can start the RP whenever you have the time. If you want any different starships (obtained from a third-party, like Shertaeth), I can make more pictures. My site's ready for your factbook entry, too!

I think you're right, it would be a good idea to just improv the events. It will make it much more authentic. Unless you have any other notes or comments, I'm ready to start any time you are.
As for the factbook page, this may take a while. Honestly, I simply don't have the time to commit to it right now. I have to downsize my NS activity a little, because it seems I've bitten off more than I can chew. I've already had to resign from one excellent RP to make room for our project. It kind of sucks, but I guess that's life. I really wish I had more time for Nation States.

I'm ready when you are. Just give me a telegram when you make the thread. :)

Actually, I was thinking that you would make the thread, the first post would be a prologue written by you. What do you think? If you think it better that I start the thing, we can do that too.

Alright, I'll start it. I probably will post it later tonight, when I get into my writing mood, unless it comes earlier. :D
And I assume you want it to be a closed RP. Of course, I am flexible.

Ya, I'd like it to be a closed RP, but I guess people can post comments if they want. TG me the link, ok?

Alright. What should I post in this prologue, exactly? I'm trying to come up with some good ideas...

Hmmmm. I was thinking you might write something about how the Universalist coupe started, a little about how it progressed, and then obviously failed. Maybe finish off with something that would lead nicely into my first scene.

Pardon me Universal Totality, I'm currently on vacation and have very little access to computers. If you want, we could do something after I get back to the states in September.

Pardon me Universal Totality, I'm currently on vacation and have very little access to computers. If you want, we could do something after I get back to the states in September.

I'd love to work with you! I think the timing would be about right as well. Contact me when you get back, okay?