NationStates Jolt Archive


OC dissertation about Imperial gravships

Melkor Unchained
29-07-2004, 23:59
I figured I should probably post something like this for posterity, but I could never be arsed to do it until just yesterday. Bear with me on some of the weapon stats: I'll freely admit I have no idea what I'm doing when I try to come up with reasonable armaments. Also, this document has been through a number of edits, and there may be some inconsistencies. If you spot one, please point it out. I'll be using this as a general reference, provided it's accepted by the lot of you crazies. Enjoy.

I have a total of 11 Battlefleets. Each fleet has:

20 missile frigates
12 AA frigates
8 Battleships
2 Heavy Carriers
3 Air Destroyers*
5 Cruisers
1 Sky Furnace, or Dreadnought

Although they're not officially classified as being a part of the fleet, per se, a fleet will generally travel with anywhere from 6-10 supply ships.

*I switched the traditional designation on my "Air Destroyers" and "Cruisers." The Air Destroyer, barring the Sky Furnace, SuperFurnace and of course the Dreadnought classes, is my largest class of capital gravship. The cruisers, then, are fairly smaller in fact. Air Destroyers, Cruisers, and Battleships also contain small fighter escorts [18 per Destroyer [3 squadrons], and 12 each for the Cruisers and Battleships. Heavy Carriers carry roughly 90 assorted fightercraft: the Raven class escort remains my mainstay, though we carry anywhere from 6-10 bomber squadrons with us as needed. Usually, standard escort is 10 fighter squadrons [60 craft] and 6 gunship squadrons per fleet [18 craft].

The fleets also travel under gunship escort. An Imperial gunship is a fairly large craft [a little bit bigger, but similarly proportioned to a city bus], with a wide array of weapons at its disposal. When not in use, these weapons racks, or 'pylons' are stored inside the ship. When the commanding AI orders it to, these racks can shift and come out with a new array of weapons. Weapons availible to my gunships include:

.50 caliber autocannon [fixed to chassis]
2 medium gauss rifles [side mounted],
3 short range AAMRAM batteries [6 missiles per volley, 18 total: rack mounted]
1 depth charge [rack mounted]
4 torpedos [only one tube. chassis mounted]
2 Long Range Missile racks [3 missiles per volley, the ship carries enough for two volleys]
and
1 EMP battery [rack mounted]

The ships have Point Defense, but they're mounted on seperate racks and must be deployed. A gunship has three availible rack mounts for swapping out, which means I usually have any two of these weapons out at once, as the aftide rack is generally used exclusively for Point Defense. Also, the craft are unmanned.

Missile Frigates:

A missile frigate is roughly 300m long [its AA counterpart is slightly smaller, at 250m], and packs as its main weapon a heavy fusion missile launcher. These warheads are generally fairly slow, but if one connects, it does a good deal of damage. I'm not good with yields so I'll spare myself the embarrasment of an estimate. But as a rule of thumb, if one such fusion missile were to connect with one of *my* missile frigates, it would reduce it to roughly 70% combat effectiveness. For most capships, I'd estimate each strike would take roughly a 5% chunk out of this figure, give or take. Depends on what I aim it at.

The missile frigate generally engages enemy frigates and capships, and unless stated otherwise, are generally situated on the inside of my formations, with an envelope of AA frigates and fighters around them. They usually travel tightly with the capships for better support. Of the two frigate classes, the Heavy Missile Frigates [occasionally referred to ICly as 'MisFrigs'] has the strongest Point Defense. Occasionally, missile Firagates have been known to fire EMP warheads, but as a rule of thumb, the fusion missiles are a mainstay. A Frigate generally launches a missile every 45-55 seconds, and any tandem fleet salvo will include two such launches from each ship.

Other weapons systems on the missile frigate include:
3 ventral medium gauss batteries
2 dorsal AA cannons

AA Frigates:

AA frigates employ flak cannons to disperse and destroy enemy fighters and other light craft. Like their aerospace equivalents, the AA frigate packs two 'Concussion' class missile tubes. Concussion missiles are smaller and much faster than their heavy fusion counterparts, and are employed regularly to provide at least nominal ship-to-ship defenses. The AA frigate is easily the fastest non-fighter, non-gunship craft to be found in the Imperial Fleets. Though it's PD system is weaker than their missile firgate counterparts, AA frigates are generally maneuverable enough to evade and engage any number of other, more archaic forms of missile defense as needed. The AA frigates are the only craft known in my Air Force to carry chaffs and flares, save for some of the older Raven models, and light bombers.

When computing damage for concussion missile launchers, assume a base 10-15% reduction in the ship's overall operational capacity for frigates and similar craft. Capships for the most part can shrug off concussion missile strikes, as they only account for a 1% loss of operational capacity in the best case.

Each ship has two main flak drivers, one on the top and one on the bottom. If the target is distant enough [say, 200m or more] it can be engaged by both turrets.

Other weapons systems employed by the AA frigate include:
3 ventral heavy gauss batteries
2 Dorsal EMP cannons


Air Destroyers:

Air Destroyers have been the de facto capship escorts for my Sky Furnaces in almost every observable case so far. There are three per fleet, and they're armed to the teeth. Of all my ships, the Air Destroyers pack the most raw, ship-to-ship firepower. Unlike the rest of my ships, they do not look like freakishly large city busses. The Air Destroyer could be compared loosely in shape with an Imperial Star Destroyer from Star Wars, and it's roughly 1500 meters long. It's chassis is dominated by four very large, rounded turrets, all topside. These serve as the ship's main anti-firgate/anti-capship weapon, and each turret is capable of delivering two tons of screaming metal death onto its target. The guns can fire once about every 4-6 minutes, and are expected generally to account for roughly a 50-60% decline in a frigate's operational capacity. Capships of comparable size have been observed to suffer anywhere from a 15-25% loss, depending on where the round is aimed.

Each turret has a PD arc on top of and around it, and for this reason the turret assemblies are very large. They're shaped like half circles: think of a zit maybe with a huge friggin rail gun sticking out of one side. The turrets are capable of movement, but due to their immense size cannot maneuver more than 30 or so degrees in any direction. Two face forward and two face aft.

Other weapons systems employed by the Air Destroyer include:
6 Ventral Heavy Gauss batteries
3 Ventral Medium Gauss batteries
4 side mounted turret rail drivers
4 dorsal AA batteries
2 EMP batteries [one ventral, one dorsal]
3 ventral AA batteries
10 Wolverine class Missile tubes [ultra heavy missiles]
15 Heavy Fusion missile tubes

Battleships:

The Battleship is the smallest class of Imperial capship, and as such is roughly 750 meters long. Battleships are generally used as frigate support, and are strongest against enemy frigates. Of all Imperial gravitic battlecraft, the Battleships have the most extensive EMP weaponry, and they use it a lot. The battleships have undergone many refits and upgrades since their inception, and to date remain the most widely changed class of ship that I have. Designed primarily as a mainstay against EOTED type weaponry, the Battleship acheived its first major refit after the EOTED invasion, which is where most of the EMP batteries came from. It's main weapon is a large EMP cannon, which stands on the top of the ship, about a third of the way towards the front side. This is an area EMP weapon, which means ot blankets the target zone with EMP as opposed to firing smaller shots at certain targets. For this reason, Battleships tend to travel towards the outside of my formations, unless stated otherwise. Frequently the area EMP is used as a defensive weapon, to suppliment the PD systems already found on other ships.

Other weapons employed by the Battleship include:
3 Ventral Heavy Gauss batteries
5 dorsal rail drivers [three of these are mounted on the ventral face of the ship: with one at the nose and two near the PD arcs by the engines. The other two are situated on the port and aft sides of the ship, near the top and smack dap in the middle of the ship.]
2 Fusion Missile launcher tubes
4 Wolverine Heavy Missile launchers
2 ventral AA batteries
2 dorsal AA batteries
4 Heavy Missile tubes

Cruisers:

When I rip into ground foritifications using artillery, a good deal of the fire is coming from my cuisers. These ships generally act as ground suppression, and travel closest to the ground of any capships, unless stated otherwise. A cruiser is about 900m long, and is only slightly less armed than the Air Destroyer. Cruisers are also my primary vessels for dispatching surface fleets, and of all classes of gravship are the best equpiied for underwater warfare. The cruiser doesn't have any one defining weapon, unlike most of the other classes.

A cruiser packs:
12 heavy missile launcher tubes
18 medium missile tubes
6 Wolverine heavy missile launchers
1 Topside EMP battery
5 topside AA batteries
3 ventral AA batteries
6 Heavy Rail drivers [3 each port and starboard sides]
5 ventral heavy gauss batteries
8 ventral medium gauss batteries
2 dorsal heavy gauss batteries

Carriers:

An Imperial Gravitic carrier is 600 meters long and has hangar space for 90 Raven-sized fighter craft.

Weapons:
10 dorsal AA batteries
7 ventral AA batteries
6 side-mounted medium Gauss batteries, 3 each on port and starboard sides.
6 Heavy Missile tubes
10 concussion tubes

Sky Furnaces:

Perhaps the most infamous class of Imperial gravship, the Sky Furnace was designed by Lord Melkor for one purpose and one purpose alone: burning lots of stuff. Each ship is 2000m long, and they're the heaviest class of gravship I have [save the SuperFurnace, see below]. I currently employ six Furnaces: the Dor Daedoloth, the Hithlum, the Gorgoroth, the Glaurung, the Orodruin, and the Anfauglith. The weapons array of a Sky Furnace is of course dominated by the six massive plasma flamethrowers that adorn the ventral face. As one might expect, these furnaces are fairly large, and as such the mechanisms occupy an inordinately large amount of space inside the ship. Picture six gigantic coffee mugs [sans handles of course], one on top of each of those rings. That's a blast furnace. Because of the space they take up, a Furnace has a little less room for weapons and such that one might expect. Most of its defenses are centered around anti-fighter countermeasures. Not once in the course of known history has a Furnace dispatched another gravship , as they're not much for capship-vs-capship action.

Traditionally, a Sky Furnace will travel to it's destination with a thick blast shield over the rings, so as to reduce the threat of enemy fire destroying one of the furnaces, and hence, likely the ship as well. A blast cover generally isn't retracted until the Furnaces are a few minutes away from purging, also to minimize the risk. When I post that the doors are coming open, or mention that the bottom of the Furnace is glowing orange, I'm likely to purge in my next post.

Some of the Furnaces, however, have another special weapon in addition to the Furnaces for which they're named. The [i]Dor Daedoloth, as some of you may know, boasts three massive rail driver turrets, much like those found on the Air Destroyer. The Hithlum has no such weapon, but has instead upgraded armor and superior engines/drive systems--this is the Furnace I use for chasing down and destroying [usually fleeing] ground forces in most cases. The Glaurung, it would appear, has a Heavy Ion cannon battery--an experimental weapon more or less. It's got these two pods on the sides that pop out from the side, revealing three cannons. The commander can then deploy the second set of cannons, which folds out from underneath the turret and rests itself on top of the larger, previous one. It's got three heavy cannons per side and two light ones on the second array. The cannons are fixed forward-facing and cannot be moved. Yes, it's experimental, and no we're not known for subtlety. The others I haven't really assigned special weapons--if I ever come up with them I'll probably wander back here for an edit.

A Sky Furnace has disturbingly heavy armor, obviously to protect the Furnaces inside. As such, it's also definately the slowest ship I've got. Generally, ballistic assaults aimed at any face save possibly the ventral or aft faces will prove ineffectual.

In addition to the huge honkin' plasma flamethrowers, a Sky Furnace typically packs:
15 concussion missile launchers
12 topside AA batteries
2 ventral AA batteries [not much room on that side ;)]
6 medium rail drivers, 3 each port and starboard side.

The SuperFurnace:

To date, the Five Kingdoms has built one SuperFurnace--the [i]Gothmog. Named after the famous Imperial Aircraft carrier that dominated the All Elves and One Ring conflicts, the Gothmog is right up there with the Dor Daedoloth as the pride of Imperial production. A SuperFurnace differs from the 'vanilla' Sky Furnaces in several ways. First, it's much larger. The Gothmog is my largest ship, and it's 3km long. Staffed by a crew of close to thirty-five thousand, it's also more heavily manned than any other warship I have save possibly the command carrier Ali'Staan.

The Gothmog also has a second set of furnaces, arrayed on the sides of the ship. As such, it's shape is slightly different. Take the usual city bus template, make it 3km long, and stick a big rectangular protrusion on the port and starboard sides, near the bottom of the craft of course. If you can follow that description, you should have a pretty good idea what it looks like. Now if only I could render...

ANYway, the Gothmog's auxilary furnaces are also equpiied with blast doors, but they're only roughly 2/3 the size of the Gothmog''s main furnaces, which makes them still slightly larger than a normal blast furnace. There are three auxilary Furnaces per side, and nine main furnaces as opposed to the typical six.

In addition to all of this, the Gothmog boasts:
20 Wolverine Class missile launchers
6 heavy missile launchers
15 topside AA batteries
4 ventral AA batteries
15 heavy rail drivers

...and that's about it. Oh, just as an afterthought, a heavy gauss battery has six guns, a medium one has nine. None of my ships have yet been observed to carry a 'light' gauss cannon array, but where they may eventually exist there will be 14. An AA battery contains 6 mid-sized Flak cannons on a single turret.

I'm definately looking for input on this, as my weapons suites could be ridiculousl overpowered for all I know. I just kind of picked some numbers at random in most cases. This dissertation covers what most nations I encounter are likely to ICly be aware of right off the bat, at least based on how they've been observed in past [and present] conflicts. Stuff like ship speed is omitted because I have no idea what's reasonable for ships of those size, but for posting purposes I generally assume they can reach most theaters in hours, usually 3-5 posts.

Discuss!
Santa Barbara
30-07-2004, 00:15
Hmm giving a cursory glance, I like how you describe your ships speed in posts. I think that ought to be more used in general when it comes to describing things for RP.

(But then people would still numberwank then, with ships that could go from sitting at dock to annihilating another country completely in 1 post. Alas.)

Also, some of that technology looks pretty ancient. You sure you're not willing to deal with Santa Barbara for some exclusive shipborne systems? Think about it for a moment!
Melkor Unchained
30-07-2004, 00:24
Blargh, I forgot the Dreadnought. I'll drum somethin' up later. I haven't yet used a Dreadnought ICly, so no harm no foul. When I do, I'll post something here. I dunno, maybe I'll get motivated later tonight.

And my tech isnt exatly 'outdated,' per se, I just prefer ballistic weapons.
Santa Barbara
30-07-2004, 00:29
Hmm, I said outdated because I saw AMRAAM and immediately thought you meant the current US versions of that. On second though, you probably meant it as a general categorization.

But even so... the offer stands.
Scolopendra
30-07-2004, 01:05
You may not be able to render, but I can (http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/compyart/gothmog.jpg). For everyone else who wasn't on IRC... it's Gothmog. Rawr.

As for weapons analysis:

Hokay, your fusion missiles are like tacn00ks if they aren't designed to utterly obliterate big ship thingies in a single shot. That's cool. Otherwise very armament-heavy, but I can hardly (http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/compyart/grendel-1clock.jpg) complain (http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/compyart/supreme-emperor-11clock.jpg) about that. Your emphasis has always been on slow mobile fortresses, so that's perfectly acceptable.

Emphasis on heavy ship design; also not a problem. The ventral arsenals are good for their primary function--blowing stuff up on the ground--but when it comes to having to deal with similarly-equipped opponents (I'm talking Ms. Pointy Ears here) it becomes an altitude fight to see who can maintain a higher altitude (her to avoid your guns, you to get as many guns to bear as possible) and as her gravships are dual-purpose aerospace fleets... yeah. Just something one of your military advisors would have had to have pointed out over time.
Melkor Unchained
30-07-2004, 01:37
This is very true, and is part of the reason my ships are made to take such a punishing. Basically, their purpose is largely to sustain the conflict: drawing out the battle for air supremacy by taking a hell of a beating whilst my hordes ravage and destroy things below and around the fleets. I try to design my ships in keeping with a specialty in ground warfare.

But yes, I see your point. I hadn't actually thought of that. :x
Sketch
30-07-2004, 02:40
The thought of these things floating around makes me happy that I have my population elsewhere, not that Melkor would ever consider me an enemy.....
Abatoir
30-07-2004, 02:52
The thought of these things floating around makes me happy that I have my population elsewhere.

Ditto. I don't think burning away the ocean would be very practical. Or likely. http://www.tbreak.com/forums/images/smilies/shifty.gif
Scolopendra
11-08-2004, 07:42
Yay, updated Gothmog pictures.

Fore-starboard, three-quarters dorsal view (http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/compyart/gothmog.jpg)

Aft-port, three-quarters ventral view (http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/compyart/gothmog-aft.jpg)

Closeup of portside bays, looking foreward (http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/compyart/gothmog-bays.jpg)


Forward ventral view, looking aft (http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/compyart/gothmog-fore.jpg)
Actually, Melk said initially that he doesn't put insignia on his ships... I ignored him for THE Imperial flagship and this is what I got in response:
<Melkor> actually, that is pretty sweet
So I guess it may as well be legitimate ;)
Melkor Unchained
11-08-2004, 08:49
Another player was kind enough to render another ship for me as well; which I'll use as the template for my battleship:

http://ainulindalion.0catch.com/skyfurnance2.JPG

As you can tell from the url, it was a conceptualization of what a Sky Furnace might look like. But, in reality, a Sky Furnace actually looks like this:

http://www.archangel-studios.com/comics/redstar/maya_4_furn.jpg

and this

http://www.archangel-studios.com/comics/redstar/REDSTAR0108&09.jpg

...except that they dont typically get struck by lightning. At least, not yet :eek:
Tsaraine
11-08-2004, 11:11
I was thinking about the Sky Furnaces recently, and the idea popped up that the furnace bit is pretty much a hot-fusion rocket. I think. I may be interpreting it wrong. But if so, you may have some trouble stopping the things gaining altitude when firing ... that would be cool to see, actually. Imperial gravship helmsmen struggling to control giant blazing metal bricks of d00m.
Knootoss
11-08-2004, 12:15
Useful thread... considering I still have fifty Melkorian ships of a generation old rusting away somewhere. Very secretly of course (despite half the major powers having suspicions... for now I'll just maintain strategic ambigiousness.)
The Ctan
11-08-2004, 12:23
...except that they dont typically get struck by lightning. At least, not yet :eek:

*Looks at skyfurnaces...*

*Looks at his Lightning Arcs.*

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/images/smiles/icon_twisted.gif
Der Angst
11-08-2004, 12:28
What I'm waiting for is an explanation as of why blowing up a Sky Furnace results in plasma burniation... After all, I would assume it's stored as liquid helium, and it does take quite a bit of energy to turn it into plasma...
Scolopendra
11-08-2004, 17:43
Because at the Battle of Kar Dathra's Gate in The Red Star when Sky Furnaces go down they're completely burning and breaking up in big huge burning chunks.

It's a plot device. Live with it.
imported_Berserker
11-08-2004, 18:09
Because a burning Sky Furnace is better than one that isn't in the state of being consumed by fire and death and pain and such.

Of course, I'm baised here. ;)
Melkor Unchained
11-08-2004, 18:41
Useful thread... considering I still have fifty Melkorian ships of a generation old rusting away somewhere. Very secretly of course (despite half the major powers having suspicions... for now I'll just maintain strategic ambigiousness.)


No, you have one. I didnt make you a whole bloody fleet.
Knootoss
11-08-2004, 19:17
No, you have one. I didnt make you a whole bloody fleet.
*cough* 50. Do we need to search logs? I only roleplayed the first one coming out of production but I *have* paid you for 50, given you the materials for 50, have never heard you say that wou would not produce the other 49, and have on repeated occasion roleplayed having 50 without any objection from you...

EDIT: I have a file somewhere with what different kind of ships I ordered. Made together *with* you

meh... to IRC...
Melkor Unchained
11-08-2004, 19:24
I'd like to see this, actually.

Incidentally I'd also like to know what the fuck I was thinking. These ships may have to be destroyed.
Lunatic Retard Robots
11-08-2004, 19:28
All I can say, Melkor, is that it is awesome.

Are those ships space capable?

I think I'm gonna go off and make one of these threads for myself.
Melkor Unchained
11-08-2004, 19:46
All I can say, Melkor, is that it is awesome.

Are those ships space capable?

I think I'm gonna go off and make one of these threads for myself.

Glad you asked; Yes they are. Gravitic drives, I beleive, are capable of operating in any atmosphere. They can go under water, they can go in air [obviously] and they can go into space. I've only used them in space once, however, and generally prefer to avoid this tactic as it's not what the ships were designed for.
Lunatic Retard Robots
11-08-2004, 20:19
Glad you asked; Yes they are. Gravitic drives, I beleive, are capable of operating in any atmosphere. They can go under water, they can go in air [obviously] and they can go into space. I've only used them in space once, however, and generally prefer to avoid this tactic as it's not what the ships were designed for.

Ah, I see. Well, most of your battles take place on Mars, don't they? I guess you don't really need top-of-the-line space capability, just like how the RGF doesn't really need atmospheric capability.

I would be interested, however, in aquiring some of those gravitic drives.
Ilek-Vaad
12-08-2004, 17:11
Very cool and in depth.
The Silver Turtle
12-08-2004, 18:15
*notes that in the later Foundation books by Isaac Asimov the Foundation has gravitically-driven starships; tiny five person affairs but containing enough firepower to defeat an entire military fleet of the old empire*

*also notes that he would be building these like mad if there were stats for them and they didn't happen to be produced from over 12 millenia of research*
Sunset
12-08-2004, 20:03
Ah, I see. Well, most of your battles take place on Mars, don't they? I guess you don't really need top-of-the-line space capability, just like how the RGF doesn't really need atmospheric capability.

I would be interested, however, in aquiring some of those gravitic drives.

Err, no. Melkor is based solidly on Earth. There are many Martian nations who have gravship-like combat craft however.
Lunatic Retard Robots
13-08-2004, 01:07
Err, no. Melkor is based solidly on Earth. There are many Martian nations who have gravship-like combat craft however.

Oh. I was under the impression that Melkor was on Mars.

Well, I need to make meself some gravships.

What size crews do they have?
Sunset
13-08-2004, 02:25
Crew totals are really up to you and what you think is reasonable. As a baseline I would use the crew total for a regular surface ship of the same size. At a guess Melkor's gravships have a high crew total for a couple reasons - low automation, and redundancy. It's easier to replace a human loader than it is to replace a complex loading mechanism. However you could go the opposite and have lower crew totals with a higher amount of automation (and higher costs).

One thing to remember is that gravships are not for everyone. They represent one variety of warfare that not everyone practices. Just because they are big and shiny (well, not that shiny... considering the atmosphere in Arda.) doesn't mean they are the right thing for you. It also doesn't mean you have or want to have the infrastructure to support them.
Knootoss
15-10-2004, 23:49
Melkor? Would you think it a good idea to add this to the NSWIki entry about gravships somehow?
Lunatic Retard Robots
16-10-2004, 00:25
Crew totals are really up to you and what you think is reasonable. As a baseline I would use the crew total for a regular surface ship of the same size. At a guess Melkor's gravships have a high crew total for a couple reasons - low automation, and redundancy. It's easier to replace a human loader than it is to replace a complex loading mechanism. However you could go the opposite and have lower crew totals with a higher amount of automation (and higher costs).

One thing to remember is that gravships are not for everyone. They represent one variety of warfare that not everyone practices. Just because they are big and shiny (well, not that shiny... considering the atmosphere in Arda.) doesn't mean they are the right thing for you. It also doesn't mean you have or want to have the infrastructure to support them.

Well, as you may have gathered from my RPs, I have a certain liking for silly things. That's why I have one dreadnaught-sized ship filled with explosives.

But Melkor, how does this gravitic drives technology workS?
Melkor Unchained
16-10-2004, 02:48
A gravitic drive reverses the gravity field in and around the ship to keep it afloat. That's about all I know. I imagine they're very large, expensive mechanisms. Traditionally I house them in the center of the ship, so as not to be easily disabled by enemy craft.
Lunatic Retard Robots
16-10-2004, 03:41
I see...were those in the Foundation series, by Isaac Asimov? I think I remember something about gravitic drives.

I generally use ion propulsion. Its not very volatile compared to other forms, and I figure it must give a good acceleration with all the futuretech stuff going on, and the fact that LRR ones are so huge. But as I said earlier, I don't have many planetary holdings, so atmosphere-capable ships are not usually necessary.
Knootoss
28-10-2004, 22:55
Melkor? Would you think it a good idea to add this to the NSWIki entry about gravships somehow?

*cough*
Alcona and Hubris
29-10-2004, 05:51
OOC: First, let me point out that Knootoss's gravships are not 'rusting' away as they are built of tungstun alloys. (supplied by yours truely via the UTP, you didn't think the Knootians had that much heavy metal sitting under their water logged country?)

Second, I prefer the anti-grav which is actually a 'false' gravity force generated in one direction. Works great if your ships are in a gravity well of a planet but poor outside of it.

Also, for your grav-ships to be space capable wouldn't they need proper life support, framing for gravity, compartmentalization...etc. (and vacuum sealing is a lot harder than pressure sealing actually, I can state that from experience)

Oh, and something that has been bothering me. How can you "reverse the gravity field in and around the ship" yet have plasma actually drop from your furnace inside the ship? If you don't reverse the gravity feild within the 'furnace' then your going to have a massive gravity flex within the actual ship. In effect, your drive will be slowly tearing your ship in two (or more) add the shear forces acting on a blocky mass moving greater than the speed of sound it is a miracle that the thing doesn't fall appart from all the forces your putting on the thing. (we and just imagine the fuel bill for that baby)

Alright, done making my engineering comments...will go back to work and stop annoying melkor...
Melkor Unchained
29-10-2004, 06:26
Sure Knoot and A&H: I don't know. Chalk it to suspension of disbelief. You're free to ignore it if you want but I think it makes for a damn fine plot device and they're fun as hell to write.
imported_Berserker
29-10-2004, 06:51
OOC: First, let me point out that Knootoss's gravships are not 'rusting' away as they are built of tungstun alloys. (supplied by yours truely via the UTP, you didn't think the Knootians had that much heavy metal sitting under their water logged country?)

Second, I prefer the anti-grav which is actually a 'false' gravity force generated in one direction. Works great if your ships are in a gravity well of a planet but poor outside of it.

Also, for your grav-ships to be space capable wouldn't they need proper life support, framing for gravity, compartmentalization...etc. (and vacuum sealing is a lot harder than pressure sealing actually, I can state that from experience)

Oh, and something that has been bothering me. How can you "reverse the gravity field in and around the ship" yet have plasma actually drop from your furnace inside the ship? If you don't reverse the gravity feild within the 'furnace' then your going to have a massive gravity flex within the actual ship. In effect, your drive will be slowly tearing your ship in two (or more) add the shear forces acting on a blocky mass moving greater than the speed of sound it is a miracle that the thing doesn't fall appart from all the forces your putting on the thing. (we and just imagine the fuel bill for that baby)

Alright, done making my engineering comments...will go back to work and stop annoying melkor...

If the plasma is under any pressure (relative to the atmospheric pressure), while in the the containment system, then it would have a "downward" velocity, even without gravity to assist it. It's not so much being dropped as it is being sprayed.

Regardless, who cares about the shear stresses really. I mean common, it's a kilometer long floating ship owned by the big bad evil man from Tolkien. Shear stress isn't nearly as important as good writing.
Alcona and Hubris
29-10-2004, 18:13
True...but I am an engineer so I always ask this kind of question. And if I don't ask Melkor about them I have a hard time asking some kid about launching a B-1 bomber from the Nimitz...

I should also point out this is an OOC thread...

Point about the pressure, if you shake up a bottle of coke and point it strait up some portion of the cola will run back down the sides. The backwash of plasma on any armor material would likely be...detramental...

Then again I don't really want to harp on it...I really just wanted to bring these items up for consideration. Not for a basis of ignoring Melkor...(actually I already have an IC ignore but I can't really OOCly ignore a mod))
Knootoss
29-10-2004, 18:16
OOC: First, let me point out that Knootoss's gravships are not 'rusting' away as they are built of tungstun alloys. (supplied by yours truely via the UTP, you didn't think the Knootians had that much heavy metal sitting under their water logged country?)

True, true. Well, metaphorically rusting then ;)
Thelas
29-10-2004, 18:21
Although the reverse gravity feild would be usefull in outer-space also. By generating a localised point of massive gravity you can 'pull' or 'push' the grav-ship forward. Now I know that the stress would be amazing, but it is possible.
Lunatic Retard Robots
29-10-2004, 23:20
A gravitic drive reverses the gravity field in and around the ship to keep it afloat. That's about all I know. I imagine they're very large, expensive mechanisms. Traditionally I house them in the center of the ship, so as not to be easily disabled by enemy craft.

I see...well, I probably could afford a few, with all the heaps of gold and jewels that my hordes of freighters, mining groups, and trading scouts bring in, but I would have absolutely no use for them, nor would I want to because then I can't build many freighters. So yeah...they're very impressive ships, definately not for me, but they're probably very handy on the wastes of Arda.

I think during the Dozle wars I saw something like one of these. I sent, like, a few frigates to attack it.
imported_Berserker
29-10-2004, 23:31
True...but I am an engineer so I always ask this kind of question. And if I don't ask Melkor about them I have a hard time asking some kid about launching a B-1 bomber from the Nimitz...

I should also point out this is an OOC thread...

Point about the pressure, if you shake up a bottle of coke and point it strait up some portion of the cola will run back down the sides. The backwash of plasma on any armor material would likely be...detramental...

Then again I don't really want to harp on it...I really just wanted to bring these items up for consideration. Not for a basis of ignoring Melkor...(actually I already have an IC ignore but I can't really OOCly ignore a mod))
*3rd yr AE student*
True, a B-1B off the Nimitiz would be annoying, but that's because the performance parameters of a B-1B are well established.

Say the grav-drives worked by just repulsing gravity themselves. Would create alot of shear stress where the drives connect with the ship, but the plasma rings wouldn't be an issue anymore. Altough the stresses at the drive connections would be a bitch. (Though this could be less an issue by distributing the load amongst many smaller "emitters" rather than a few large drives.
Der Angst
30-10-2004, 08:33
Although the reverse gravity feild would be usefull in outer-space also. By generating a localised point of massive gravity you can 'pull' or 'push' the grav-ship forward. Now I know that the stress would be amazing, but it is possible.Nevermind fucking with the gravity of a whole system. Ya'know, to accelerate with, say, 2 gees, you would need to artificially create two times earth gravity, now, do that near, say, a moon...

Or underwater movement, the pressure in the water increasing due to said water being compressed, thanks to the additional gravity. Makes moving a bitch.

Of course, that is what suspension of disbelief is for. Nonetheless, it is amazing how this things are easily (Well, almost always) forgotten when it comes to gravitic propulsion...
Lunatic Retard Robots
30-10-2004, 16:43
Nevermind fucking with the gravity of a whole system. Ya'know, to accelerate with, say, 2 gees, you would need to artificially create two times earth gravity, now, do that near, say, a moon...

Or underwater movement, the pressure in the water increasing due to said water being compressed, thanks to the additional gravity. Makes moving a bitch.

Of course, that is what suspension of disbelief is for. Nonetheless, it is amazing how this things are easily (Well, almost always) forgotten when it comes to gravitic propulsion...

Well...I guess these big battle furnaces are meant to be big machines of pwnzorment which don't necessarily have to move that fast. And after all, who cares about gravitational forces? If a moon crashed into earth during an epic gigantic battle, it would really only spice things up more.

But after all, this is nationstates. If I can have my ships quantum tunnel to different regions of the galaxy within a reasonable amount of time, I think we can make an exception for gravitic drives.

And perhaps it is a highly localized and contained gravitic field that is at work. I don't know how somebody would do this, but I imagine that it could be 'done.'
Der Angst
30-10-2004, 17:07
And perhaps it is a highly localized and contained gravitic field that is at work. I don't know how somebody would do this, but I imagine that it could be 'done.' 'Tis my personal assumption. Oh, and the underwater pressure thing is likely wrong, due in its incompressibleness. My bad. Feh. Problematic streams and whatnot remain, though.
GMC Military Arms
31-10-2004, 17:00
But after all, this is nationstates. If I can have my ships quantum tunnel to different regions of the galaxy within a reasonable amount of time, I think we can make an exception for gravitic drives.

Well, quantum effects on macroscopic objects is way sillier than gravdrives, to be fair...