NationStates Jolt Archive

.....are all total bull. Seriously, they make no sense. Since when does your population have any effect on the technological advancement of your nation? I was space tech with FTL travel less than a week after my creation and people were fine with it (Well, those people who haven't already ignored me). Want to know why? Because I RP'd it!

As long as you RP the development of a nuclear bomb, the creation of a proper detonation device, and an adequate delivery system, you can have nukes after one day. Want to know why? Because you RP'd it!

This is a role-playing game. You role play. As far as I can tell, that is the only requirement for doing anything. If you role-play it, you can do it. Because that's the entire basis for this forum.

In real life there are nations with populations less than 10 million who have nuclear weapons, and on NS you surpass that after 6 days. Don't look at a nations population or age, look at how they created the weapons. It will lead to much more fun.

Of course, if some one day old nation just shouts "I have 3,000,0000 nukes!" you should blow him into atomic dust, but not merely because he is young. Ignore him for not RP'ing their development, ignore him for having an impossibly high amount, ignore him for warmongering (if he threatens other nations), but don't ignore him merely because of his age. Do that, and you're just as much a n00b as he is. Actually, I'd say you're more of a n00b, since he's at least still a newbie and can plead ignorance.

Thoughts?

*claps*

Well written, well though, and well explained. I applauded you for this because it rings so true.

I completely agree... well spoken!

In real life there are nations with populations less than 10 million who have nuclear weapons, and on NS you surpass that after 6 days. But I believe that they did not develop all of it from scratch, like these nations try to.

Yes, but they say they are starting from scratch, doing research to make a test bomb, meaning they have the materials, just not the knowledge.

I can have all the parts to a car engine, but I have no idea how to put it together so it'll turn over.

Crimmond, that is a good point. However, if a nation does properly RP it (meaing the discovery of uranmium, the mining of it, the research into atomic weapons, experiments, tests, etc.) then there should be no problems. Yes, it should take more than a single day to RP all that (If 1 RL day is 1 NS year) since the combined IC time should be closer to a decade, but I'm sure allowances can be made if they actually do make all the threads. If not, then we shall merely ask them to take more time and (if they are smart enough to have done all this well) I'm sure they'll comply. (This is based on the assumption that the person under discussion is a reasonable person, and not an unreasonable jackass)

heh if the nation is a good rp'er and is allied with Diminix or something, I'd have no problems supplying him with the technology or might as well give him/her a few nukes to start off with.


That is if they are a good rp'er.

Actually, I'm kind of doing that with a friend right now. Except that I'm not 'helping' them at all ICly, they're RPing stealing several suitcase nukes from me. Theft RPs are actually pretty fun.

Anyway, to get back on topic:
I agree with you, Klonor. If a player RPs something, certain 'rules' should be bended. (Not bended so far that a one day old nation RPs the aquisition of billions of robot soldiers or something.) But bended so that a good, new player is rewarded for taking the effort to make good(ish) posts.

.::TAG::./BUMP

Not disagreeing, but merely pointing out:
Most of the worlds nations with ten million or fewer people have been around for quite a while ;)

So?

BUMP because I feel this is important

Not saying that it isn´t true, but which nations with less than 10 million citizens have nuclear weapons? And wich of these nations have their own space program?

Not saying that it isn´t true, but which nations with less than 10 million citizens have nuclear weapons? And wich of these nations have their own space program?

Israel.

Klonor, well written. In general, I agree with you, but I believe that this argument is mis-aligned. Everyone seems to be arguing RL vs NS, and capable vs incapable. In reality, the restriction on nukes and space programs is simply a leftover bit of game evolution, the appendix of NS.

Consider:

One of the big goals of any game is to be self regulating. That is to say, the rules enforce themselves. An example of this is the growth of character-RP in NS. Certain populr nations prefferred this type of RP, and they encouraged it. Seeking to emulate this, smaller nations followed suit. People who played with these rules were encouraged, while those who didn't use this system were discrouraged, and sometimes mocked. This caused those who played differently to leave the game, lending a near-monopoly of Character-RP in the ranks of the elder nations. New nations, seeking to become powerful, emulate again, and the cycle continues.


Now, a sustaining cycle, stable and long lasting, with low maintenance, was needed to ensure the quality of RP in the old days, when there weren't really enough players to pick and choose. The solution was an emergent behavior, being silently adopted by those who passed it's threshold, and enforced on those below, who adopted in turn. This solution was simple: for issues of fairness and quality, no new people would have access to the techs. The (at the time) small nations could no longer immolate each other into IGNORE fests, and they couldn't make the mistake of thinking that they were the first to have a Nuclear War RP.


Don't think of this as oppression, but as protection. Nuclear technology is a gun, and the solution created kept that gun from the hands of the NS children. This would keep new nations, who still had not, through trial and error (the ONLY way to learn this game), figured out how to play respectably, from embarrassing themselves with a nuclear war fiasco. The new nations were, in fact, granted a "Grace Period", where they did not possess the technology to OOCly damage their reputation.


As such, the ban is PURELY Out-of-Character. It serves absolutely no IC logic or reason. It is designed to protect newbies from embarrassing themselves, to seperate the noobs from the newbs, and to allow sanity in the Role PLaying Forums. The downside to all of this is that players who are good, and who learn more quickly than average, can feel handicapped by this system.

That's the reason for the ban. There is no IC reason that can hold water. It is there to protect the new players from themselves, to protect them from each other, and to keep them from causing a ruckus on the forums. However, with the size of the NS world (thousands now active), there is now the capability to choose who to play with, and this kind of system is no longer needed.

Does this system benefit the community in general? Yes.
Does it hurt the individual new player? Yes.

You draw your own conclusions.

K-stan

That's the reason for the ban. There is no IC reason that can hold water. It is there to protect the new players from themselves, to protect them from each other, and to keep them from causing a ruckus on the forums.

Enforced by flaming retards spamming every single thread a new nation starts with pointless insults the very moment their very personal, individual and in no way based on any kind of ruling (Free Form, remember?) opinion regarding population limits is violated.

This resulting in NS losing attraction for newcomers who do quite often write aforementioend retards down in a matter of minutes.

Population requirements, no matter for what, are fucking stupid, if one doesn't like the style others play, one quietly leaves them were they are. There is NO NEED to boost one's excessively tiny ego by spamming/ flaming/ whatever them.

Not directed at Kaukolastan, it was just that quoting that particular line was useful.

Not saying that it isn´t true, but which nations with less than 10 million citizens have nuclear weapons? And wich of these nations have their own space program?

Well Israel has a population of about 6 million, and despite claims to the contrary it is pretty much common knowledge that they have nuclear weapons. Aside from that they have a recently created Space Agency with high aim and good funding.

Back to the point however, I think if a nation of 10 million RPed it properly over a course of days, and they somehow illustrated how they got the fissionable material, either through mining, or with another nation's consent (missing nuclear weapons or plutonium, was it stolen, found or a gift?, etc.)

I mean a Sum of All Fears scenario is pretty acceptable to me, and I would think, to the bulk of the responsible Role Playing Community as well.

I agree with the author. Someone who just happens to be new RPing secret development of nuclear weapons and then making a well written announcement like "Such and such nation enters the nuclear age! Test of crude atomic warhead a success, plans to develop build more weapons and continue development of the nuclear program are in progress," and then continuing to RP a gradual buildup of their nuclear arsenal is a lot different than some kid declaring war on his first day and then going "I n00k j00 with 10,000,000 warheads! hahahahahahahaha!" I would applaud a good RP of nuclear weapon development by a new nation. The second scenario... well, that's when it's time to bring out the IGNORE cannon.