NationStates Jolt Archive

OOC: This is the thread for the meeting of the Inquisitions of Christain nations. If would like to get involved but didn't post in the initial thread just tgram me.

IC: The meeting takes place in a mansion in the Trinsic mountains(northern region of Belem.) The area is still covered in winters snow and tucked hidden away in the valleys of the range. The airport where the planes will arrive is a small weather relay station where cars await the arriving delegates.

The mansion itself is rather spacious and sits by a frozen lake, over the doorway is a golden cross. In the yard sits a Crusader II tank and a Cavalier APC mounted with Stinger launchers. Inquisitors are patrolling around the building and the nearby woods with guard dogs.

Inside the mansion is a grand foyer which a dome ceiling the next room in is the dining room(meeting room) with a large table on the wall hangs portraits of the Emperors and the symbol of the Inquisition. Grand Inquisitor Tarkin is waiting for the envoys to arrive

OOC: If you guys want you can skip the arrival at the airport and just start at the house so we can get the meeting started.

Inquisitor Vasques got out of his plane and looked around, one could think that he was looking at the country side, maybe he did notice it however he was more interested in the security of the place.
After a short while he nodded up the ramp and nodded.
Two Inqiusitorial troopers moved down followed by the hunched form of Senior Inqiusitor Kriger. Puuling his hood further over his eyes, the young Inqiusitor waited for his senior to limp down before moving towards the mansion.

OOC

Skipping the airport landing thing, done that too often ...

IC

Inquisitor James in his imperial robes and Knight of Jerusalem armour was waiting for his car after his plane had landed. He had two servants to carry his luggage and manage more "domestic" issues with the trip. He picked up his cross, attached an antenae and activated it by punching in a code (it's a satellite phone). "James to IHQ, landed safely in Belem" he spoke into the cross, a voice crackled back "Over and received, good luck James. Lucius sends his regards".

Grand Inquisitor Bern entered the mansion and quickly headed to the foyer. When he entered he greeted Grand Inquisitor Tarkin. "Tarkin, we meet again. Is there any hope we won't see the Roanians at this meeting? I know he's an brother in god but I get an sudden erge to send for wood and an stake when ever Roanian Inquisitors are around expecally their Grand Inquisitor."

Grand Inquisitor Misha entered the manision frowning. He personally hoped nether the Roanians or the Teritorans were here, the Belem he could handle, but the Roanian Grand Inquisitor was just plan unnerving to be around like he was ploting something unplesant against everyone in the room and the Teritoran Grand Inquisitor looked like the steotypical elderly child targeting fairy tale monster with the body of an old man or woman. He made his way to the Floyer and inwardly sighed. So much for Bern not being there.

Inquisitor James left his car and got out to see the mansion. The servants got out the other side and we talked hospitality with the Belem officials. James realised it was rather cold and had forgotten European weather was much different to deserts of Jeruselem.

He followed an Belem official into the mansion to see the Bern and Misha being themselves and not talking to each other, and then bumped into Tarkin.

"Tarkin, I'm sorry Grand Inquisitor Lucius could not been here. He has work to do, but I'm representing the interests of Jeruselem. It's been a while since we have being in contact since my training days in the Knights of Jerusalem." James greeted Tarkin.

Grand Inquisitor Bern glared at his Tordoarn counterpart when he entered the room. Great, that monster is here. He spoke. "Misha, so Archbishop Mishani let you off your leash so soon after the last meeting. Thats surpising."

Misha resorted. "Ah Bern, still trying to reform lesser Heretics and saving poor lost souls who got themselves into their own trouble no doubt."

OOC: we are just waiting for one more so the actual actual meeting won't start till tonight. Just sociolize now.

Athel Nora: Two Inquisitors salute the Inquisitor Kriger and hold the door open for him and he is shown to the the meeting room by another Inquisitor.
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Teritoria:"Greetings Inquisitor Bern. Roania is unable to attend this gathering."
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Tordor:"Greetings Inquisitor Misha."
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Jeruselem: "Welcome Inquisitor James. Send Lucius my regards."

Belem: "Good, I didn't really want to put up with him so soon again."
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Tordor: "At least I try to save the heretic's souls and guide them back onto the true path. You just burn them at the stake over even the most minor things and even burn people at the stake for belonging to an different reglion in the frist place who were never christians in the frist place. How many Jews, Muslims, Mormans and other faiths have had their brethern burned at the stake by you and your Inquisitors Misha? You give church Inquisitions and the Church itself an bad name."

Territoria: "Yes they also seem much to friendly with the elves and most of the non humans."

Belem: "Greetings, Inquisitor Tarkin. I see thankfully, that the Roanians were not able to make it. It may be one of the few things I can agree with my Teritoran counterpart about but I do not like the Roanian Inquisitiors."
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Misha didn't answer Bern, they had this arguement too many times and it would be just repeating it again.

Belem: "I half supect them of witchcraft or black magic. I amit, I was sorely tempted to have Leopold thrown into irons the last time we met at the monastary."
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Bern refused to pursue the arguement, he and Misha enchanged like that pretty often when they meet and if they didn't stop it could go on for several hours.

Tag, your it!

OOC:So who we waiting for?

OOC: ruskyia. im going to start soon though xpect post in about 30 minutes for beginning.

OOC: time to get started

IC: Grand Inquisitor Tarkin calls for the meeting to begin and waits for everyone to take there seats.

"Thank you all for coming today we shall discuss the current state of heresy in the world and how to handle it. Lets begin by going around the table and give a brief introduction of who you are and operations you have spearheaded.

As you all know im Grand Inquisitor Tarkin, In charge f the Belem Inquisition both domestic and abroad. Mosy recently our fight against heresy has been in Aerion where we had remarkble success in overthrowing the regime and installing a catholic friendly government."

Grand Inqusitor Bern spoke. "I am Grand Inquisitor Bern, High abbott of The Order of St. Hern, I have lead the fight of the Teritoran Inquistion agaist Heresy, witchcraft and those who would attempt corrupt the holy mother church. I have put an end to attempt to estabish Arianism in Teritora as well as led efferts destroyed several hundred Witch cults saving the lives of over thousands of the faithful from being used as human sacrifices."

Grand Inquistor Misha spoke. "I am Grand Inquisitor Misha, Head of the Tordoran Inquisition, waging war against the Infidel pagans, heretics, witches and those who would dare attempt to currupt the holy mother church. I have seen to the extermination of the Gnostic heresy in the protectorate of Tordoran Nasseriya, the elimination of over 20,000 other Heretics and 100,000 thousand nonchristians in Tordor and its protectorate and the burnings of 300,000 thousand witches."

bump

'I am Senior Inquisitor Kriger, abbot of the Dominican order. My order has had success in cleansing my fatherland from all vile pagan and heretical cults saving innumerable souls from damnation.
Abroad we have a less spectacular career, as we have only entered a civil war to stop a growing heresy and took action to ensure it will not happen there again.'

"Inquisitor James, assistant to Grand Inquisitor Lucius. We are charged with the task of fighting Islamic terrorism, heretic cults, Masonism, Satanism, Scientology and militant atheists. We are not a true inquisition, but part of the Jeruselem anti-Terrorist Network now as due to organisational integration."

"Excellent now on to the second order of business claryifying the definition of heresy. As you know the definition of the groups involved by the church are the following in order of what could be considered importance or acceptance by the Inquisition.

Catholics I don't think we need to clarification on that.

Schismatics is classified as anyone who turns away from the one true church but still believes in Christain ideals and accepts our lord Jesus as savior, of course those considered dualists do not fall in this category. Schismatics are normally excluded from any Inquisitional tactics other then perhaps a gentle push in the right direction.

Judiasm being classified as anyone who follows the law of Moses in which our church doctrine was dervived from. Though they do not believe in the Lord Jesus they are instrumental in the forging of Christainity and are exempt from Inquisition like schismatics except in certain circumstance, being that they usually keep to themselves it suits both their and our interests.

Pagan Anyone who follows a faith other then the One True Faith, or other acceptable faiths. It is important to note that a Pagan is anyone who has not been exposed to the truth, and as such must first be shown the truth and deny it before being judged by the Inquisition. But in our modern age it is nearly impossible for someone not to be exposed to the true word of God and that is why this category must be clarrified.

Heretics anyone who has been exposed to the one true God and has denied him. They are primarily beyond redemption and must be judged on there crimes. It should be noted that that dualists such as the Catharists and Albigenese fall into this grouping. This group must also be further clariffied in order to tell the difference between Paganism and Heresy.

I would also like to propose a new grouping known as Non Humans: Anyone who is not of the human species can and should be defined as an iredemable heretic. Most of these non humans worship pagan gods and believe in witchcraft. Though there are some who worship the true faith and therefore there needs to be some exemptions which shall be defined later.

Any comments?"

Bern spoke. "Escuse me but I imagion that everyone here has an different idea of just what heretics and its not likely all to be the same in all cases. Not all Heretics are unsavable, people who have been led into Heretical teachings may be saved but not unrepent heretics or relapsed heretics."

"that is why it needs clarification what is considered heresy and what is considered paganism"

- 'Clarification in such matters are nigh impossible. Heresy and Paganism are such things that are hard to classify, though once you see it, you can say that it is heriticle/pagan.'
- 'Since were discussing such matters, than what if their is a situation that shows signs of both. As Islam, their doctrines are definently very different from our own religion and that would lead to classiffing them as Pagans. But they claim that our savior is one of their prophets. The idea of monotiezm was also taken from the bible during Mohamets numerous visits to the Holy Land.'
'My point, is Islam a Heresy of Judaizm/Christianity or is it a Pagan cult?'
- 'Judaizm, what are the cicumstances you would propose that we take interest in? The ones were they carry out certain laws from the Torra?'
- 'Non-Humans, though I agree with you that they often follow practices that are abhorrent by both Human and clerical law. But in the XVI century during the time when Spain was colonizing Central America the problem arissed "Do Indians have Souls?" in the end the Papal Edict decreed they do as all other Sapien life forms. This would mean that such Xeno's are a target for missionary operations. Though one most not forget that many cults are aggresive towards Christianity and most be treated as such.'
- 'A last problem, Anti-Globalism. As the church is a global ideal, forseeing identical doctrines of faith and theological teachings for all faithful it makes anty-globalists, even if most of them do not see this, enemies of the faith. What sort of actions do we take against them?'

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3122954#3122954

Grand Duke Leopold von Agua VII, former head of the now disbanded Holy Roanian Inquisition for the Purity of the Faith, calls upon his brethren to also disband their organisations and reform.

He calls for the other Grand Masters to meet him in New Agua as soon as possible.

"There is a grey line between Paganism and Heresy. You are lucky you don't have deal the thousand faces of Christianity, for example Eastern or Greek Orthordox, Maranites, Ethiopian, Arab Christianity, Thomasian, etc like we do. We are far more tolerant these days compared to the Crusader years. We have no issue with the Jewish faith. A little known fact is our Queen quarter Jewish from her grandmother, but she is Catholic but has some quaint Jewish habits from her mother" James spoke.

"Considering that muslims refuse to accept the crucifying of Christ as being an unworthy death for a prophet and refuse to accept the ressurection and do not accept the divinity of Christ I believe that falls under the practices of Paganism.

On the Jewish Faith the only intervention in Belem between Jews and the Inquisition would be in the case of Jews actively preaching that Jesus is not the messhiah and attempting to gain converts, but being that the Jewish people are extremely insulated this is rarely a issue.

The subject of Non Humans brings us to the exceptions for Inquisition. Let it be noted that all full breed non humans, demi humans 25% Human, 50% human not following the one true faith should be summarilly Inquisited or relocated either to foreign country but of course who would want them? Or to isolated interment camps with of course a regulated eugenics and sterilzation program so the problem will be over within a generation. Since extensive research in the subject has shown they are not created in God's Image and only humans are at best they are soulless animals who posess intelectual properties at worst they are the progeny of Satan and his Demons.
Now an Exemption of the first degree is any non human, demi human 25% human 50% human who is a confirmed follower of the one true faith. They shall be relocated to special non human districts of a country where they can live out the rest of there lives in peace. Through proper regulation the population of these non humans can slowly be brought down till they are no longer an issue.
An exemption of the second degree is any 75% human who is a follower of any legal faith or the one true faith, any legal faith being defined by laws of the presiding Inquisition but for intents and purposes shall be defined here as Judaism any legal Christain sect with only a few such as mormonism being excluded. They can either be relocated to special districts for second degree exemptions or government regulations can be installed to prevent any mingling between full blood human and mixed bloods. This shall have the same effect as stated above and slowy curving the non human population.

And for the Anti Globalism problem we shall need to to first provide education on our goals to the population and if they proves unsuccessful an Inquisition shall prove necessary. Success for education and the methods of Inquisition should be defined and regulated by the presiding Inquisition in the land. Since we can not convene a council every time a minor discrepency occurs or we would never leave this room."

Bern spoke carefully and calmly. "Heresy is what the teachings of the church and the popes past and present says it is. It is for us to deal with it as it has been defined by the teachings and the papacy."

"True but we are defining how the Inquisition must deal with heresy and how to discern different forms of heresy."

(Intro)

A high pitched mechanical whine fills the air as the craft of the Ascensian representative approaches. Its black shape is strange and quite indistinct until it comes quite close, revealing itself then to be formed in the shape of a large bird. It is propelled by a normal jet engine, but is quite accurate in its metallic representation of a gigantic crow. The craft touches down, wings folding against the craft's sides, heated mist spewing forth from joints and breaks in the surface material of the bird-like object. A few moments pass, and a small ramp extends from the thickest misted area, followed by ominious clanking steps. Metal covered boots reveal themselves first, giving way to swirling black robes, covered here and there by small pieces of metal and wire which look as though they penetrate the surface of the cloth. The sounds of whirring gears can be heard as the tall, dark figure emerges fully from the craft, approaching the conference without word, fully concealed within his hooded robes.

The representative enters the conference room and sits, awaiting his moment to introduce himself, and, given the chance, he does. He stands, pulling back his hood, revealing a completely hairless and pale face, with small tracts of metal wrapping around ice blue eyes. From the edge of his face, the truly odd part of this... man, begins. If the skin of a man were flayed away to reveal a working machine beneath, covered in bolts, wires, and plates of metal, this would be what one would see.

A dull buzz accompanies the deep voice of the man as he speaks, "I am Alpha Class Inquisitor Michael Ascensia, representative of the Imperial Inquisition of the Holy Ascensian Empire, the Premier Inquisitor Ramiel Ascensia, and the Holy Emperor Malkaviel III."

On the issues of Islam and Judaism, he remains silent, as if he were not aware there was a problem with these religions, or even that they exist on a large scale.

On the issue of non-humans, however... "Sub-humans are the property of human beings. They were not created in the image of God, nor have they been granted the immortal and infinite soul which we have been endowed with. Though they may be intelligent, without spirit, they are merely animals, and deserve only the same respect and consideration we would give to a Pet. We may care for them, and even love them to an extent, but they will never be our equals, and we must never presume them to be so."

Anti-Globalism: "The forces for globalization are largely atheistic. They are motivated by the godless scum who control the United Nations, and by the unbridled greed of international corporations. We should persue a global union of faith, to strengthen us against their attacks, but we must also be ready to strike down their attempts to grow too strong, or cut short our efforts."

"I believe ascensia has hit the nail on the head of the way we must treat the non human."

'But a number of Xeno species are almost identicle to humans in terms of outward appearence. If they look like humans who were created in the image of God than on what bassis would you claim that God did not create them? Further facts that could quistion the theory of their un-godly source is the mentioned by Inquisitor Tarkin fact of the existence of human/xeno hybrids. If the result of their mating is the birth of a fertile sapien being than there is even less dividing our species than imagined.'
'However, before any of you assume that I would preach tolerance for such acts I would remind that according to to certain books in the bible that race mixing is against the will of God. Which would mean that not only do we have to fight against human/xeno mixing but also the mixing between Humans of different skin color. Though if we were to take such actions we must be prepared to risk even more hatred from the international community and those that see no further in the future than tommorow.'

"It is interesting we speak of non-humans or Aliens as others would prefer to call them whether they came from the Earth or not. As Jesus Christ is a descendant of King David and the Jewish peoples of the Old Testament, and they are Star Children - it is not too difficult to say we can relate Jesus and this teachings to non-humans from non-human origins too?

Athel Nora: "Of course some of the show the outward appearance of a human but could that not just be an illusion? Demons such as succubi and incubi take the form of humans.
Also God gave Adam and Eve domain over all other living things meaning humans were the only ones blessed with his image and also means that as descendents of Adam and Eve we inherit there problems of the non humans.
And if it was ever neccessary for us to deal with human racial mixing at a future time I believe secular laws could be used without the need of the Inquisition stepping in."

Jerusalem: "That is why I have proposed the possibility of exemptions to Inquisition. It is for those who have seen the true way. Though the percentage of non humans who follow the way of Christ is barely representable in there population."

Bern rolled his eyes and muttered under his breath. "Belemite radical extremist fanatics." He didn't even bother to pay attention to as he saw it the Ascensian barbarian. "It is not for us to take an view on non and demihumans intil the vatican and his holyness the pope does."

"We are on the front line we can not sit on our hands when problems come up and non humans are a problem, or would you prefer if territoria was overrun by heathen orcs and elves?"

The buzz behind the representatives voice rises in pitch as his speech becomes a bit more heated.

"In this modern time, are we still to belive that literally God is a being with two arms, two legs, and a head? Are you attempting to teach a children's course in theology? If so, I think you have entered the wrong room. God is a being of infinity, we are made in his image in our gift of an immortal and infinite soul, identicle in nature to the essence of the almighty. Non-humans are lacking this gift, and so they will never be elevated to the level which we have been taken to by our creator.

If we ever must deal with breeding between humans and non-humans, such abominations should most definitely be killed off, and those involved who were presumptuious enough to declare themselves better than their own species should be killed as well. The lust for non-human lovers is just as filthy a desire as that a man may have for a whore, they should be punished just as severely for both crimes."

His last words are directed to the Teritorian.

"Radicals are those who stray from the path and choose to indulge in the will of the enemy. Considering the wars that have been brought against humanity by the sub-human species, it is quite fair to call them, as species, our enemies. When the time comes, who will you choose to defend, your own people, or the sub-human scum who will kill you at the first convenient moment? A similar situation happened within Ascensia, and we had very turbulant times, as rogue political groups sought to divide our nation and cause it to be taken over by foreign fanatics. They sounded quite like you, and their favorite word was 'tolerance'. If they had their way, Ascensia would be a Pagan empire today, rather than the beacon of light that it is."

Belem: "Yes, demons are known for taking human form, and you needn't remind me of that. And though I fully understand your concern about Xeno's and there practices. But most races have a common fear of demons, hence many have found there own ways in battling them. That makes the finding of demon hosts among their population as diffucult as among humans. Races which openly worship demons or dark gods are of course more simple to fight as they often make aggresive moves against others.'

All: 'So I assume that we agree that race mixing is to be fought against. Those of us that reside in countries that do not have such laws against such perversions will do what they can to make the goverment make such laws?'

"Agreed, and those whose churches have positions of power within the nation should persue such laws.

We should also establish that sub-humans should never be married to humans within a house of faith, and that if such a filthy action is to take place, it will be the fault of a secular government, and not one of our churches."

OOC: Sorry about this late post, I've been a tad busy of late.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

IC: A thin, middle aged man dressed in dark clothes and a wide brim hat stood up and addressed the the persons in the room. "Allow me to introduce myself, I am Ingius Vimes of the Ruskkie Inquisition. Us Inquisitiors of Ruskkia are little more than bounty hunters, sercert policemen, witch hunters and paranrmal investigaters rolled into one.

"We only answer to the Regent and serve to protect Imperial Ruskkia from the dark forces of the beyond. It is not our duty to question the existence of the Great Maker, we only do what we have to do.

"Demons on the other hand only serve to mislead Man into the darkness, where ever they're found they must be destroyed!

"That is all I have to say at this point."

Vimes sits back down.

Bern spoke to the Ascensian calmly. "I will do what I have always done, defend the church from heresy, those who would currupt it no matter where they are and protect the faithful from witches which are an certain threat, until the vatican comes to an potion on nonhumans it is not for the inquisitions to force anything. I know what my duty and responsabilties to my faith and the church are just as the Church solders and the church knights of the holy order of St. Vernsi know what their's is. The Kingdom of Teritora has existed since 3200 B.C., the government knows what it is doing, it hardly needs the church to defend it from nonhumans. There has not been an orc in Teritora for 4,000 years and only one elf in 5,000 years which was arrested for serial murder. It should not be the place of this council to make church policy concerning nonhumans, that is the Vactian's and The holy Father, the pope's domanion."

"Well then what do you want to do about the problem of non humans being heretics within the confines of Catholic nations and possessions."

tag: I will return! haha

"I had thought when I received the invitation to this conference that it was meant to develope international cooperation between the militant forces held by our respective churches, not merely to serve as a place for everyone to affirm that they will handle themselves. Perhaps you do not have a problem with sub-humans, and perhaps that is why you are ready to be so lenient with them. Some of us may have grave problems with sub-humans, some less so, but the point is, we need to form cohesive bonds and policies to deal with sub-human infestation when and where it encroaches upon the sovereignity of the human race.

More than that, we should be exploring our capability to influence governments which are not under our direct control, in order to put more resources at our disposal for the protection of the faithful and the destruction of the wicked and evil. Secular governments have a limited scope of what constitutes a threat. Where politicians see potential votes or influence, we see a seething mass of volatile and violent outcasts ready at a moments notice to spur violence and act out against the church. Threats must be dealt with, and until we can keep governments from interfering with our removal of threats, we will continue to be in danger."

"Excellent points. And that also brings us to our third point of discussion which is the refinement of policy of overseas action which has been haphazard so far at best with different sides taking different stances. As you know Belem has been at the forefront of conversion of nations who act against Christendom, such as the recent war in Aerion."

"Belem brings up an excellent concept.

In the 1800s, a man by the name of Metternich formed an organization called the Holy Alliance. Its goal was to keep secular governments from taking power in Europe, and while in the long run the campaign was unsucessful, the idea was sound. A military alliance between like minded countries who would step into conflicts and assist the faithful however they could.

Such an organization would serve us very well in these troubling times of atheistic influence and demonic intrigue."

'The problem with such allainces is the stance of the governments. We all know that politicians can rarely let prsonel fealings govern the path the country takes. Even though christian allainces such as the Defenders of the Faith operate and try to make an identical international policy, not all catholic countries joined, and among those that did join there numerous differencesi nthe ideas of policies necessary. And unfortunently I do not doubt that despite belonging to one church our organizations will have dissagrements concerning proirities and in a more or less evident matter, will cooperate with the countries policies.'
'Though i do not see trouble in setting up cooperation by means of sharing information and in, if not actually assisting, then in not bothering hunting down heretics and other enemies of the faith.'

"Which is why governments need to learn to work with the church, or lose the favor of the people. If we do not exert direct control over the governments of nations, they will exert control over us.

What we would focus on in such an alliance would not be disagreeable situations, but agreeable ones. I think we could all agree that secularist and communist revolutions would need to be stopped by our alliance, as these concepts pose a significant risk to our way of life. We perhaps should also agree that theocratic revolutions should be supported, no matter their interpretation of the Christian Scripture, so that more theocratic governments can be founded, more members of the alliance can be gained, and more secularist dogs can be put in their places."

"The church is soppused to repremind the goverment if it is going tofar with it's policies, not control it. Many times disatrous situations occured buy to much control over its actions.'
'Though I do agree with you about stopping communist revolutions. As we have already agreed here we cannot tolerate ideal groups that wish to destroy the church and it's believers. This would also be that much easier that my government would not need much prompting to make an interventin in such circumstances.'

"Without control the church takes the chance of a disfavorable group taking power in a nation, oppressing the faithful, or even destroying the church in that country entirely. In this modern world of strife and atheistic influences, the only way for the church to forever remain at peace with the state is for the church to become the state."

"Reprimanding means nothing. How many tank divisions does the church have? none. but if the government is the church then it means something."

Misha spoke. "This talk of taking power troubles me. Power corrupts, the church should have close ties to government but it should not be the government, that way lies corruption of the holy mother church. As for nonhumans if you have an problem, send an request to the his holyness the pope to clarify how the church should deal with nonhumans. I say, if they are not harmed by holy water, warded off by holy symbols, can set foot on holy ground die or fall to the ground writhing in pain, killed or burned by holy water, silver cold iron or other methods of finding, banishing or killing evil spirits and demons then they are not the greatest threat to the holy mother church."

"Belem brings up an excellent concept.

In the 1800s, a man by the name of Metternich formed an organization called the Holy Alliance.

OOC: Metternich was also a traitor to Emperor Napoleon. Not a very reliable character. He turned tail and ran in 1848 when Vienna revolted. Off to England with ye!

IC: It is the formal position of the Greater Prussian Government that the Inquisition is a crime against humanity that shall not be tolerated in any true Christian state.

Furthermore, it is asserted by the Protestant nations of Greater Prussia that it is a blight on the face of the earth contrived by the devil himself and carried out by his minions, specifically the great beast that sitteth in the Temple of God and exalteth himself as God.

The Inquisition and all of its elements are inherantly anti-Christian, with little surprise in that if you look to Rome for a defense of the Gospel and a defense of Christ...you find nothing. Yet if you look to find the perfect converse of what Christianity and Christ must be, then you have found what you seek.

I denounce your evil for what it is, and I, on a level outside of my role as the Emperor of Greater Prussia, on a personal level, denounce your Pope as the Anti-Christ and your Evil Babylonian Church as the Mother of all Harlots. It is fitting that all in the end get what they deserve for your punishment shall be great...and there is no Purgatory to lessen it.

His Imperial Highness,
Viktor Leipzig I
Emperor of Greater Prussia

"What greater power and responsibility is there than the saving of souls? The church can be trusted to lead the people to harmony with the will of God, but not to harmony with one another within their nations? Nonsense. Perhaps individuals should not be trusted in positions of great power, but the church as a whole, with its hierarchy to ensure that everyone answers to someone, or many someones, ensures that no matter how deep corruption may run, it will always be found out."

Misha spoke. "This talk of taking power troubles me. Power corrupts, the church should have close ties to government but it should not be the government, that way lies corruption of the holy mother church. As for nonhumans if you have an problem, send an request to the his holyness the pope to clarify how the church should deal with nonhumans. I say, if they are not harmed by holy water, warded off by holy symbols, can set foot on holy ground die or fall to the ground writhing in pain, killed or burned by holy water, silver cold iron or other methods of finding, banishing or killing evil spirits and demons then they are not the greatest threat to the holy mother church."

"And If we could just throw holy water on everyone to see if they were a heretic our jobs would be much simpler. But it does'nt work that way in the real world like it works in the movie."

"Unfortunantly, it is not simple in the finding of heretics. They are normal humans, they go to church every sunday, they have jobs, wives, children and mother in laws that hate them. Disvoring heresy requires much work, often one can follow a promising trail only to discover it to be false.'
'As they are humans they often are not averted by holy icons. It is proven that they only gain hatred and revulsion to such symbols when a demon actually posses them.'

Bern muttered something about untranslatable in old Teritoran. "My counterpart from Tordor never said anything about heretics, only nonhumans. As for the church becoming the government and not just having close ties. I must agree with my college from Tordor. That would bring corruption into the church on such as scale that it would become unpure through out. Your way would bring another protesant reformation and do great harm in the end to the true faith."

"Since we are on the topic of heresy. I've been watching non-Catholic evangelists spreading their faith to the world as if their commercialised Christianity is the Word of God and as if the Pope did not exist. In Jeruselem, the masses are not fooled and stick our the Orthodox versions of Catholism, Islam or Judism. But in more faithless nations, they are successful and I see this as heresy. They preach a very distorted version of Christianity with a focus on making money the way justified by the New Testament in their way. Sometimes they sell investment schemes run by themselves to their converts. I see this as heresy with Money as God and not God himself."

Your way would bring another protesant reformation :D Sounds good to me!

Your way would bring another protesant reformation :D Sounds good to me!

OOC: It would. Now,

*adds Athel Nora to the 'to stomp' list...

*adds Belem to the list of people to have excommunicated...

*add Territora to the list of people to have excommunicated...

*adds Jeruselem to the... hold on. I can't do that. Hmmm...

OOC: Thought you were a Papist, Roania. Am I missing something? Excommunication, if you are excommunicating people from the Roman Church, do it to me, that might be entertaining. Talk about an interesting dialogue.

OOC: Thought you were a Papist, Roania. Am I missing something? Excommunication, if you are excommunicating people from the Roman Church, do it to me, that might be entertaining. Talk about an interesting dialogue.

OOC: I am... and HVS is very... shall we say, persnickety about this type of thing. So, unless this is an alternate reality, I have no choice but to contact him...

*adds Reichskampken to list of people to declare to be the spawn of the devil, pending explanation of what type of Protestant he is.

OOC: I am a fundamentalist Protestant. I stick to the doctrines of the 1st and 2nd Reformations. I am a Calvinist. Free Presbyterian. One of my religious advisors is named after Rev. Ian Paisley, the head of Northern Ireland at this point. I am in the most conservative class of Protestants. Read my post before in condemning the Inquisition, I called the Papacy the Anti-Christ and the Church the Whore of Babylon. (Can Produce Scriptural Evidence too. Jerusalem and I had an interesting thread going for a couple pages, but it kinna died and he never responded to what I said.) I would take it as an honour to be named the number one enemy of the Pope and his Church...so I think I am a fitting candidate for excommunication.

OOC: I am a fundamentalist Protestant. I stick to the doctrines of the 1st and 2nd Reformations. I am a Calvinist. Free Presbyterian. One of my religious advisors is named after Rev. Ian Paisley, the head of Northern Ireland at this point. I am in the most conservative class of Protestants. Read my post before in condemning the Inquisition, I called the Papacy the Anti-Christ and the Church the Whore of Babylon. (Can Produce Scriptural Evidence too. Jerusalem and I had an interesting thread going for a couple pages, but it kinna died and he never responded to what I said.) I would take it as an honour to be named the number one enemy of the Pope and his Church...so I think I am a fitting candidate for excommunication.

*ponders the rationality of excommunicating someone who isn't a member of the church.

*decides it can't be done.

*returns to legalising Lutheranism.

*stops high-jacking thread.

OOC: kinda hard to get us excommunicated for something we are doing secret ic. the only thing anyone knows OOC is that some sort of meeting is taking place.

Bern muttered something about untranslatable in old Teritoran. "My counterpart from Tordor never said anything about heretics, only nonhumans. As for the church becoming the government and not just having close ties. I must agree with my college from Tordor. That would bring corruption into the church on such as scale that it would become unpure through out. Your way would bring another protesant reformation and do great harm in the end to the true faith."

"The Inquisition as I understand in most nations is not truly an arm of the church and mainly a secular yet religious arm of the government so if the power of the Inquisition is increased the Church itself does not suffer from corruption and would not lead to a reformation."

Bern spoke. "Yes but in countries such as Tordor and Teritora they are part of the church."

"Perhaps the establishment of internal security division could help root out corruption. Or perhaps the establishment or an expansion of an advisory board within the government to push them in the right direction when dealing with heresy."

"So your Inquisitions are directly under the control of the church as a whole? That must be quite inconvenient, since the Inquisition often must do things the church itself finds to be alarming in order to accomplish its goals."

Bern spoke. "Not everything is done by the Inquistion, theres the Knights of the holy order of St. Vernsi under Grand Master Dern and the undead Slayers of the holy order of St. Adius under High Abbot Hern. The Teritoran Inquistion is the holy order of St. Hern. But we all report to the Archbishop of Castle Dora. We have always been able to do our duties."

"If there has never been a time when you have been forced to do something distasteful in the eyes of the church in order to perform your duties as an Inquisitor, count yourself lucky. Many who have saved countless lives and ensured the survival of the church in many cases cannot say the same, and would no longer be members of the clergy if held accountable for such things."

OOC

Jeruselem will never legalise Lutherism due to the Jewish hostility towards them due their founder Martin Luther writing "Of the Jews and their lies". We also believe Luther was cursed for his heresy as all his children died before him.

bumpers

"Since we have seemed to hit a brick wall in our current discussion I would like to open the floor to bring up any problems, suggestions or issues they are having or feel need to be addressed at this meeting."

Inquisitor James decided to raise an issue "I have a personal opinion to disclose. I really hate Evangelists and their phoney antics. They steal members from true Church and promise to their followers a path to heaven via the easiests path - their WAY - they speak directly to God and God speaks to them. I see false Prophets and messiahs at work diverting Christians from their real path - following the teachings of Jesus in life. God speak truth the Bible and not through the false Prophets who are in my mind, minions of Satan. Do these preachers live a life of humble Christian? No they misused their followers funds and undulge themselves to the fruits of Satan."

Bern spoke. "I understand what you mean but there aren't any in Teritora though other than the 25% jewish population almost all the rest are so devotely catholic of the Teritoran rite variety in their belief that many would concider them fanatical to extremely fanatical."

"The best way to handle those who mislead the people is to utterly expose all of their corruption. The resources of a powerful inquisition should definitely be sufficient to do so. As long as people show common sense, when these tricksters are exposed, they are abandonned. If all else fails, the phrase "Night and Fog" comes to mind."

Bern looked at the Ascensian. "You're an barbarian."

"And you are weak. You would see the church die, destroyed by atheists and other heretical scum in its weakness and apathy, I would see it thrive."

Misha spoke up looking at the Ascensian. "You are an utter fool if you think Bern is an weak man and think that of him. I may not like him but he's done much more for the church and the faith as well as saving the lives and souls of more of the faithful than you will likely ever be able to do even if his methods are rather moderate in many things. As much as I hate to say it but the Teritoran church has the least problems likely of all of us."

Misha spoke up looking at the Ascensian. "You are an utter fool if you think Bern is an weak man and think that of him. I may not like him but he's done much more for the church and the faith as well as saving the lives and souls of more of the faithful than you will likely ever be able to do even if his methods are rather moderate in many things. As much as I hate to say it but the Teritoran church has the least problems likely of all of us."

Misha spoke up looking at the Ascensian. "You are an utter fool if you think Bern is an weak man and think that of him. I may not like him but he's done much more for the church and the faith as well as saving the lives and souls of more of the faithful than you will likely ever be able to do even if his methods are rather moderate in many things. As much as I hate to say it but the Teritoran church has the least problems likely of all of us."

Misha spoke up looking at the Ascensian. "You are an utter fool if you think Bern is an weak man and think that of him. I may not like him but he's done much more for the church and the faith as well as saving the lives and souls of more of the faithful than you will likely ever be able to do even if his methods are rather moderate in many things. As much as I hate to say it but the Teritoran church has the least problems likely of all of us."

"I'm a fool to question one who would tell the rest of us to relax our defense of the faith in the face of the challenges facing us? You may see a saint, but I see a wolf in sheep's clothing. So, who is the fool, the sheep who trusts others with fleece, or the shepard who pokes his staff among the flock to test them?"

Bern retorted. "I never said anything about relaxing defense of the faith you fool. What I am talking about is means to defend the faith. There are some means which should be used otherwise we are no better than those we oppose. Doing evil in the name of god is still evil. and reality the devils work. We need to lead by example and by doing all we can without resorting foul means."

"If the situation warrents it 'night and fog' could be considered an acceptable solution if the crime is severe enough to warrant a disappearance."

Spitting back at Bern... "The church must do what it must do to survive. God gives us the tools and the power to defend ourselves and the faith, and we must utilize it in every fashion we can. After the second world war, the members of the Nazi party who resisted allied influence were jailed or summarily executed, would you argue this was wrong? It was needed then, and it is needed now. Society is built upon many things, and included among them is blood."

Bern calmly replied. "The church is in more danger from people like you than from all the hordes of the Mahomadans and scores of atheists. The Church can not go about doing what you propose, its an affrant to the entire faith and an slap in the face to god and all his saints in heaven. As for your compareson that is not an proper comparison. You would make us no better than the communists and nazi's. Went we deal with Heretics, witches and such due process of law must take place to insure we don't harm the faithful instead of the real enemy. Also such scare tactics will terrorize the faithful, we are here to defend the faithful not put them into fear of whom they should turn to for aid."

"Foolishness. You would deny the tools God himself shows us in his holy scriptures. Fear is just as important as Love in matters of faith. Had not the son of Abraham feared death so, causing him to beg and plead, would his father have felt as tested? No. The church must maintain these ancient practices, it must instill many things in the people, not just benevolence and love, but fear and anger as well. People need motivation, and not everyone is motivated by puppets in the park."

The Athel inqiusitor raised his hands,
'Pax brothers. Stop wasting words as if you were school boys or servent girls. We are grown men and servants of God, we are here to discuss problems in a civilized maner.'
'I agree with Inqiusitor Bern that our Ascensian colleuge is somewhat over zealos but he has some things right, the church cannot show signs of weakness especially now with the large amount of enemies that we must face.'

Misha spoke. "The Church as always been facing large amounts of enemies, the only thing that changes in some cases is the nature of the enemies." He looked at the Ascensian. "By the way, are the Ascensians that far behind in cybernetics or is your apperence spose to intimadating? I was just wondering."

Misha spoke. "The Church as always been facing large amounts of enemies, the only thing that changes in some cases is the nature of the enemies." He looked at the Ascensian. "By the way, are the Ascensians that far behind in cybernetics or is your apperence spose to intimadating? I was just wondering."

Misha spoke. "The Church as always been facing large amounts of enemies, the only thing that changes in some cases is the nature of the enemies." He looked at the Ascensian. "By the way, are the Ascensians that far behind in cybernetics or is your apperence spose to intimadating? I was just wondering."

The Ascensian representative bristles at this. "Cur! Enhancement in the Inquisition is handled by the finest doctors employed by the church, I would put their work against any pathetic attempt by anyone in your nation to do half of what they do."

Bern chuckled. "I would find that unlikely. Theres at least 100 people inside the Teritoran church alone that could do an better job leaving you human looking and I won't go into the Tordoran church. The bloody Tordorans are masters of advanced Cybernetics and robotics and other high techologies, I think they are sometimes too good for their own good, after all they did have that robot revolt. Now if we want to talk about heresies, theres spreads that AIs have souls, now that is abomonable."

Misha glared at Bern. "The revolt was put down competely and I would remind you that it caused by an strange mulating computer virus likely sent on purpice to bring Tordor its knees. Likely by some AI soul beliving heretics no doubt."

"So you question the capabilities of technicians within my nation while yours cannot even control their mechanical servitors? How is it I am a Barbarian and yet I know enough to keep machines in their place?"

Bern replied for Misha. "Oh that revolt was caused by an rather nasty super computer virus launched by one of those accursed machine nations that aren't around anymore. But that was decades ago, I belive the Tordorans have been devoloping some of the nastest complex multating super computer viruses to unleash on the next nation that tries such an thing and set up safe guards such things. I am one who called you an barbarian, not Misha."

Misha glared at Bern then replied. "When one is at the forefront of advanced techology one can expect accidents time to time."

"How can you not understand what you yourselves have created? Unless of course your "innovations" are merely accidents."

Misha replied calmly. "Stop trying to twist around whats beening said. Of course we understand what we create, you just can't plan for everything. Now can we get back to what we came here for or would you prefer to continue to insult and trade insults."

"Had you not insulted my nation's culture and capabilities, we would not be in this line of discussion."

Bern rolled his eyes. "Or prehaps if you were not so touchy you would not gone off on Misha who was only curious. He never said anything about your culture but I did when I called you an barbarian but that is not the point or the reason we are here."

"And yet you continue to use this term repeatedly? Fourty years ago I would have dragged you outside and beaten you within an inch of your life for such a thing. I remain without violent action or threats, yet you continue to call me a barbarian. Are you striving to offend me? Or are you just too childish to notice your behavior is inappropriate?"

Bern responded. "Forty years ago or even ten years ago, you would have died trying to do that. Teritora has been around since around 3200 B.C., the only terms in the Teritoran languge there is for people from outside of Teritora are all varation on barbarion or outsider as polite terms or mininumly midly insult, depending how its used. There are far more insulting terms I could be using and most of them are not translatable. If I was strifing to offend you I would use much stronger terms. Now will we get to back to business before we put our other collegues to sleep, I am sure they have better things do than listen us go back and forth."

Bern responded. "Forty years ago or even ten years ago, you would have died trying to do that. Teritora has been around since around 3200 B.C., the only terms in the Teritoran languge there is for people from outside of Teritora are all varation on barbarion or outsider as polite terms or mininumly midly insult, depending how its used. There are far more insulting terms I could be using and most of them are not translatable. If I was strifing to offend you I would use much stronger terms. Now will we get to back to business before we put our other collegues to sleep, I am sure they have better things do than listen us go back and forth."

"Do not argue that you did not mean to offend, since you used the term describing the representative from Belem as well when his point of view displeased you.

I would only die trying if you had been accompanied to this meeting by a group of marksmen, and if you were, I must wonder at why."

Bern calmly. "IF you must know, I would have had members of one of the miltant orders with me assuming I couldn't have stopped you my self. Now pursing this argument so we can get back to business like I have said we needed to do repeatedly."

"We were at the part of the meeting where I asked anyone if they had any issues to bring up."