NationStates Jolt Archive


URGENT! Meeting of All Christian Nations!

Reichskamphen
22-04-2004, 01:04
In these trying times of darkness which we live in, in the days of Apostacy which Daniel, Paul, and even our Lord Jesus Christ predicted should arise, the enemies of God are gathering hand in hand about our doorsteps. They sharpen their blades, and howl fiercely, but they will be quickly broken apart by the power of the almighty.

It is given to us, to use the sword that the Lord has provided us, that being his righteous Word, to tear chunks out of the Apostacy of the World and the evil influences of the world such as the Modernistic Hedonist Culture, the Dark Swarms of Mohammedanism (Islam) and the Mother of all Harlots, the false Christianity that has arisen within the true Church of Jesus Christ Himself.

In order to more effectively achieve results, we must work together, and this requires coordination. Toward this end, I propose a meeting of representatives of all Christian Nations at the Ancient City of Magdeburg within my Kingdom of Scotta, the Capitol of the Greater Prussian Empire.

Here we shall discuss matters of theology, doctrine, politics, militarism, and any other routes which need to be discussed in order to reconsecrate this world for God and his son. What we need here is a third Reformation! We here on Nationstates are the minorities! Let us not be crushed by the enemies of God, but stand up and bear witness to his everlasting truth and to that of his son Jesus Christ!

God be with you all.

His Imperial Highness,
Viktor Leipzig I
Emperor of All The Greater Prussians
Lord High Protector of Reichskamphen and Scotta
Transnapastain
22-04-2004, 01:43
Grand Executer Alexander Simon the 1st of Transnapastain congradulates you on your push to being the light of our risen lord to the peoples of this world

OOC
the last time a thread like this got started....i ended up in a war....Thanks Volga :P
22-04-2004, 01:54
You do know who the mother of all harlots and the abomination unto the earth was?
You do know that the same was the city that sits on seven hills?
You do know who that is?
Transnapastain
22-04-2004, 01:55
--edit, wrong thread--
22-04-2004, 01:56
Rome, specifically the Vatican or New Babylon as it was called.
Reichskamphen
22-04-2004, 02:03
I know exactly who the Anti-Christ is. I do know these things.

-Viktor
Diminix
22-04-2004, 02:21
Our emperor, Anthony Ses'uh shall be the first to ensure that he will attend the meetings.

[Ses'uh High Command]
Edolia
22-04-2004, 02:34
"Hmph." The Imperator put down the report. "Ridiculous superstitious fools. Don't they realize that the dark ages are over?" He turned around in his seat and opened up his video phone. "Secretary von Struth? Yes... please inform the servants that I will be having my cannabis bath in a moment. Ask them to send along my concubines."
Reichskamphen
22-04-2004, 04:29
Emperor Viktor Leipzig the First walked down the hall of the Imperial Palace in Magdeburg. With him, his religious advisor Dr. Ian R.K. Paisley III.

"What I'm worried about," began Paisley, "is that the Apostates will use this meeting as an opportunity to swell their ranks, to swell the ranks of hell! I care not if the athiests mock us, they will get theirs in time. I am sure some will laugh at us. But they won't be laughing when they are being burned in Hell!"

Viktor paused momentarily and glanced up, saying, "I am also a bit disturbed by this. Rome has done everything she could to destroy the separation created in the 14th and 15th centuries. She wants nothing more than to drag the rest of us down to Perdition with her. But with good Christian nations here, we should be able to counteract their effects. Plus, I believe we need to hear from all parts of those who profess Christianity...although we do know that lukewarm Christianity is no Christianity at all...we still must hear from them."
Capsule Corporation
22-04-2004, 05:05
The apostacy existed between 64 AD and 1830 AD. The "Christian" religions of the Earth still remain in that apostacy.
Roania
22-04-2004, 05:06
OOC: Reichskampken, what's your policy on Holy Vatican See?
Reichskamphen
22-04-2004, 05:19
OOC: As you know, I had people protesting the Enclave a while back. But I didn't get to finish that up as I got busy. I just sent him a telle actually asking him if he was interested in sending someone to this.

My government's position is that the Papacy is the Anti-Christ, the Church of Rome is the Mother of all Harlots, and that Catholicism is forbidden and participating in or giving the mass is forbidden by law with varrying penalties as the Mass is the greatest blasphemy against Christ that has ever or will ever take place on this earth. This is also the position of the Emperor.
Yurka
22-04-2004, 05:20
"Bah so what are the foolish Christians doing now?" Emperor Drake Yurka sat back in the long black room and looked up at the video monitor along with his advisors, "I suppose with the populations of the Earth liberating themselves from supersitition... That the only option for fanatics is to brainwash everyone into their religion..."

The advisors around the tables all nodded in agreement, some of which were chuckling. One in particular, the youngest in the bunch, stood up and bowed to the emperor, "Perhaps they will commit a mass suicide like all of the other cults are doing these days?" The advisors simply laughed.

The bearded advisor at the end of the table stood up and bowed to the emperor, "When fanatics get together they can be very dangerous my lord..."

Drake Yurka sighed, leaning back in the throne-like chair, "Daggoth, I suppose you are right, but we cannot openly attack them or they might misstake us for demons... Jarod, we can only hope that the christians commit a mass suicide to see their lord. But the likelyhood of that is neigh to impossible, there are too many of them..."

"So you are sayting that they are like a cancer?" Jarod questioned the emperor with another question, a faint smirk across his face.

"Yes, I suppose they can be called that. Luckily Christianity is slowly dwindling in power on the earth, and liberation from fanaticism will come swiftly... This concludes tonight's meeting." Drake stood up and walked out the back door, the advisors talked amongst themselves for over an hour before returning to their homes.
Dontgonearthere
22-04-2004, 05:23
DGNT issued the following statement:
If the Anti-Christ, Christ, or any other diety, anthropamorphic non-omnireligious personification enters any DGNT state building he will be arrested under the State/Church Seperation Act.
Reichskamphen
22-04-2004, 05:25
Also, the Apostacy did not end in 1830 and existed as far back as creation. Apostacy is the darkness, the offspring of Hell. Adam strayed from the path God had laid for him, this was Apostacy. The Jewish people fell into idolatry and some wanted to return to Egypt which God had delivered them out of...this was Apostacy...and insofar as modern times goes. The Mass, the most blasphemous act that can ever take place on the earth is Apostacy. Baptismal regeneration, Extreme Unction, Transubstantiation, Confession, Veneration of Icons, Veneration of Saints, Prayer to Saints, Prayer to Mary, Worship of Mary, the fact that Church Tradition is put on the same level as the word of God, the office of the Pope, the entire Roman Catholic heirarchy, all of this is Apostacy. Rome is the Mother of all Harlots, the greatest Apostacy that has ever or will ever exist. It is the enemy of Christ and strikes at his person and his righteousness with its every action. The Apostacy will not end until the end times. Even if you do not believe as I do about the Roman Church, I hesitate to call it a Church, you will know that whatever you consider to be Apostacy is prophecied to come before the end times and will not die until we see new Earth.

I say to all Moderate and otherwise Christian nations, that although I am a very conservative fundamentalist, we will be welcoming all types at this meeting. We wish to hear from those more moderate as well. So just because you do not agree with me, is no reason not to attend this dialogue.

His Imperial Highness,
Viktor Leipzig I
Capsule Corporation
22-04-2004, 06:21
Apostacy of the Church, I meant. Christ's Church was nowhere to be found.. only fragments and scattered truths. I was talking about the apostacy of the priesthood. The priesthood power and authority was not on the Earth from 64-1830. There were no prophets or healers or revelators.. only people who "assume" the priesthood as if it were a title you could just impose on yourself.
Free Outer Eugenia
22-04-2004, 06:32
A musical messege from sunny Free Outer Eugenia:

Long haired preachers come out ev'ry night,
Try to tell you what's wrong and what's right;
But when asked, how 'bout something to eat, (Let us eat)
They will answer with voices so sweet; (Oh so sweet)

You will eat, (You will eat)
Bye and bye, (Bye and bye) in that glorious land above the sky;
(way up high)
work and pray, (work and pray) live on hay, (Live on hay)
you'll get pie in the sky when you die. (That's a lie)

And the starvation army they play,
And they sing and they clap and they pray.
Till they get all your coin on the drum,
Then they'll tell you when you're on the bum:

You will eat, (You will eat)
Bye and bye, (Bye and bye) in that glorious land above the sky;
(way up high)
work and pray, (work and pray) live on hay, (Live on hay)
you'll get pie in the sky when you die. (That's a lie)

Holy Rollers and Jumpers come out,
And they holler, they jump and they shout
"Give your money to Jesus," they say,
"He will cure all diseases today."

You will eat, (You will eat)
Bye and bye, (Bye and bye) in that glorious land above the sky;
(way up high)
work and pray, (work and pray) live on hay, (Live on hay)
you'll get pie in the sky when you die. (That's a lie)

If you fight hard for children and wife-
Try to get something good in this life-
You're a sinner and bad man, they tell,
When you die you will sure go to hell.

You will eat, (You will eat)
Bye and bye, (Bye and bye) in that glorious land above the sky;
(way up high)
work and pray, (work and pray) live on hay, (Live on hay)
you'll get pie in the sky when you die. (That's a lie)

Workingmen of all countries unite,
Side by side we for freedom will fight!
When the world and its wealth we have gained,
To the grafters we'll sing this refrain:

You will eat, bye and bye,
When you've learned how to cook and to fry.
Chop some wood, 'twill do you good,
And you'll eat in the sweet bye and bye (that's no lie!)
Free Soviets
22-04-2004, 06:40
A musical messege from sunny Free Outer Eugenia:

[i]Long haired preachers come out ev'ry night,
Try to tell you what's wrong and what's right;
But when asked, how 'bout something to eat, (Let us eat)
They will answer with voices so sweet; (Oh so sweet)

You will eat, (You will eat)
Bye and bye, (Bye and bye) in that glorious land above the sky;
(way up high)
work and pray, (work and pray) live on hay, (Live on hay)
you'll get pie in the sky when you die. (That's a lie)

sing it again joe!
Yurka
22-04-2004, 06:43
That was beautiful Free Outer Eugenia :cry:
imported_Mezzenrach
22-04-2004, 06:51
While the Queendom of Mezzenrach does not officially consider itself to be a Theocracy, nor does it preclude the existence of other beliefs within the realm of Her Most Serene Majesty, Queen Mezzen, we would like to send our High Priest of the Temple HaMoshiach to participate in your important undertaking.

The Most Reverend Doctor Absamach holds advanced degrees in New Testament hermeneutics, prophetic fulfillment of Y'shua HaMoshiach's life and ministry, eschatology and spiritual gifts in action.

Dr Absamach's services are regularly attended by over five thousand worshippers who come seeking to hear the exciting and passionate way he delivers the Word to the world today. His altar calls are always answered with hundreds upon hundreds of people deciding to give their lives to our Lord.

In His Service,
Taranof, Assistant Secretary of the Ministry of Religion
Mora Tau
22-04-2004, 07:39
In these trying times of darkness which we live in, in the days of Apostacy which Daniel, Paul, and even our Lord Jesus Christ predicted should arise, the enemies of God are gathering hand in hand about our doorsteps. They sharpen their blades, and howl fiercely, but they will be quickly broken apart by the power of the almighty.


You bet we are!
:)

Mora Tau's last church was closed down yesterday, for lack of use!
Der Angst
22-04-2004, 08:50
"Now we have to wonder how the 'nation' of Reichskamphen, which is allied to Melkor, of all people, the self- declared Lord of Darkness, justifies its claim to intend to further the christian ideal.

As a matter of fact, we have certain doubts regarding their honesty... or sanity, for that matter.

We urge all christian nations not to fall for the treacherous lies of the darkness that is... reichskamphen, and to further the christian ideal by exterminating the disease, the virus of Reichskamphens ideology, a virus that is currently raping anything christianity, and Jesus, stand for."
Ravenspire
22-04-2004, 08:55
I say to all Moderate and otherwise Christian nations, that although I am a very conservative fundamentalist, we will be welcoming all types at this meeting. We wish to hear from those more moderate as well.

Really... Well, then, given such a gracious invitation, how could we refuse? I'm sure this dialogue will be one to look forward to.

Sakura Kitsuki
Roania
22-04-2004, 10:14
We look forward to meeting you. I must ask you to clarify where this meeting will be held. Might I suggest neutral ground? And will we be allowed to bring guards? This might be a target for terrorists such as the DRSO.

~Patriarch Malcom Frasier
Head of the Novar Ohan Variant of the Roman Catholic Church
Syskeyia
23-04-2004, 06:54
"Now we have to wonder how the 'nation' of Reichskamphen, which is allied to Melkor, of all people, the self- declared Lord of Darkness, justifies its claim to intend to further the christian ideal.

As a matter of fact, we have certain doubts regarding their honesty... or sanity, for that matter.

We urge all christian nations not to fall for the treacherous lies of the darkness that is... reichskamphen, and to further the christian ideal by exterminating the disease, the virus of Reichskamphens ideology, a virus that is currently raping anything christianity, and Jesus, stand for."

Amen to that.

God bless,

The Republic of Syskeyia
23-04-2004, 18:45
The Kingdom of the Vecne Mesto.
Will send a full envoy to attend the meeting.
We look forward to hearing what you have to say.


The President,
23-04-2004, 18:57
Toby Portus, the Head of the Syndicate Alliance and the most powerful man in the Party Island's read the offical reports on the so-called "Third Reformation" and sighed. "Meaningless babble, no one here will buy into anything that robs them of joy." he said to himself before snubbing out his cigar on the report and shoved it all in the trash, his mute servants then put out the fire and took the trash out quietly.
Reichskamphen
23-04-2004, 20:20
OOC: I will address the Melkor issue if you send me a letter or some comunique about it, such as would warrant the Emperor's IC response.

Also, insofar as joy is concerned, mere earthly joy is a passing thing. The very flighty nature of it should show that it is too insubstantial to lean on. He who has his joy first must needs give place to he who will have his last, but he who has his last, need not give his place to any. His joy is eternal. Such is the way with the Kingdom of God. If you, in this life take your joy, then eternal damnation shall you find in the next. God be with you.

(Also OOC: Party Islands, I have a neat RP idea. If you don't like this, tell me and I'll cut it.)

*10:50 am, Kamphstadt harbour, Reichskamphen*

The Merchant vessel RNV Grand Duke Michael, carrying thousands of cases of fine wine from the wineries in Reichskamphen departed to the Party Islands. It was hoped that the fruit of the vine would be consumed in a responsible way, but doubted heavily.

Also aboard were five men, five ministers in the Free Presbyterian Church of Greater Prussia. They brought with them a few Bibles each, a copy of Calvin's Institutes, and several boxes of religious tracts.

"We are doing the Lord's work!" shouted Rev. Ian Paisley IV, the son of the religious advisor to the Emperor.

"This is so, we shall bring the Gospel to the depraved lands of Party Islands as Paul brought it to Ephesus!" echoed Huldreich von Castle, a young minister in his twenties.

The five ministers looked at each other and prepared for their journey.

The boat rocked a bit, then began to lurch forward...

Paisley exclaimed, "Let us bow our heads in prayer..."
Reichskamphen
23-04-2004, 20:21
OOC: I will address the Melkor issue if you send me a letter or some comunique about it, such as would warrant the Emperor's IC response.

Also, insofar as joy is concerned, mere earthly joy is a passing thing. The very flighty nature of it should show that it is too insubstantial to lean on. He who has his joy first must needs give place to he who will have his last, but he who has his last, need not give his place to any. His joy is eternal. Such is the way with the Kingdom of God. If you, in this life take your joy, then eternal damnation shall you find in the next. God be with you.

(Also OOC: Party Islands, I have a neat RP idea. If you don't like this, tell me and I'll cut it.)

*10:50 am, Kamphstadt harbour, Reichskamphen*

The Merchant vessel RNV Grand Duke Michael, carrying thousands of cases of fine wine from the wineries in Reichskamphen departed to the Party Islands. It was hoped that the fruit of the vine would be consumed in a responsible way, but doubted heavily.

Also aboard were five men, five ministers in the Free Presbyterian Church of Greater Prussia. They brought with them a few Bibles each, a copy of Calvin's Institutes, and several boxes of religious tracts.

"We are doing the Lord's work!" shouted Rev. Ian Paisley IV, the son of the religious advisor to the Emperor.

"This is so, we shall bring the Gospel to the depraved lands of Party Islands as Paul brought it to Ephesus!" echoed Huldreich von Castle, a young minister in his twenties.

The five ministers looked at each other and prepared for their journey.

The boat rocked a bit, then began to lurch forward...

Paisley exclaimed, "Let us bow our heads in prayer..."
23-04-2004, 20:45
OOC: I will address the Melkor issue if you send me a letter or some comunique about it, such as would warrant the Emperor's IC response.

Also, insofar as joy is concerned, mere earthly joy is a passing thing. The very flighty nature of it should show that it is too insubstantial to lean on. He who has his joy first must needs give place to he who will have his last, but he who has his last, need not give his place to any. His joy is eternal. Such is the way with the Kingdom of God. If you, in this life take your joy, then eternal damnation shall you find in the next. God be with you.

(Also OOC: Party Islands, I have a neat RP idea. If you don't like this, tell me and I'll cut it.)

*10:50 am, Kamphstadt harbour, Reichskamphen*

The Merchant vessel RNV Grand Duke Michael, carrying thousands of cases of fine wine from the wineries in Reichskamphen departed to the Party Islands. It was hoped that the fruit of the vine would be consumed in a responsible way, but doubted heavily.

Also aboard were five men, five ministers in the Free Presbyterian Church of Greater Prussia. They brought with them a few Bibles each, a copy of Calvin's Institutes, and several boxes of religious tracts.

"We are doing the Lord's work!" shouted Rev. Ian Paisley IV, the son of the religious advisor to the Emperor.

"This is so, we shall bring the Gospel to the depraved lands of Party Islands as Paul brought it to Ephesus!" echoed Huldreich von Castle, a young minister in his twenties.

The five ministers looked at each other and prepared for their journey.

The boat rocked a bit, then began to lurch forward...

Paisley exclaimed, "Let us bow our heads in prayer..."

OOC: Let's do this in another thread, due to the fact my computer is a pile of crap I'll be floating in an out ok.
Yugolsavia
23-04-2004, 22:21
Christian Dictator Nicolia Asonovich would wish to attend this meeting. It is nice for a place for honarble christanse to gather up and meet united under a commoon faith. I would consider it a honor to be allowed to attend this meeting.
Iesus Christi
24-04-2004, 03:40
Another reason why Iesus christi and her comrades will have nothing to do with the parasite region that is greater Prussia...

Our Lady of Victory....Pray for your lost Children...
Diminix
24-04-2004, 15:59
The Dominican 747 began to slowly to decend into Reichskampen air space. The pilot on board put on a pair of headphones and flicked a switch on the control panel.

"Dimi747, requesting permission to enter Skampen airspace."

The pilot had no immediate responce.
Catholic Europe
24-04-2004, 16:18
How can you call the Church that was created by Christ and can be directly followed to Saint Peter, as its roots, the Mother of Harlets?

The Catholic Church is the one and only true Church. We are the Church of Saint Peter who was given the keys of heaven by Jesus Christ himself. We follow His teachings and any who stray from it and call us heretics are the actual true heretics.

The Protestant Churches, who split from the true Church, have shown that they are wrong in that there are literally thousands of them. If they are all so certain that the Catholic Church is wrong, blasphemic even, then why can't they agree with each other? It's because they are wrong - not us.

Even your founder, Martin Luther, returned back the true Church.

Pope John XXIV.
Emperor of Catholic Europe.
Jeruselem
24-04-2004, 16:52
We protest at the position of this so-called Christian meeting which proclaims Catholism as the vehicle of anti-Christ. Protestants as an off-shoot of the universal church who claim their version of Christianity is one and true Christianity. St Peter founded the Roman Catholic Church. Why betray the founder who converted the Romans to the light from their worship of heathen Gods and blood sacrifices.

As for the association of the anti-Christ and seven hills of Rome (and hence the papalcy), to us it is a Protestant conspiracy. It was a mis-translation of the greek word for "horns" to hills which does not occur on the Catholic New Testament. The seven horns refers to beast with seven horns and crown of ISIS with it's seven spikes. We will not mention the name of the nation where it's main idol is ISIS with the seven horned crown or "New Babylon".
Reichskamphen
24-04-2004, 20:40
OOC: I will address doctrinal issues elsewhere...but you have to realize the statements made about that were an OOC response to the question of another. So you didnt know that. Plus, Catholics are attending the meeting. There will be Protestants, Catholics, Orthodox...all kinds. Reichskamphen is just one nation. If you want me to address your doctrinal concernes with Viktor's position, make another thread, or we will deal with it in the meeting itself.
24-04-2004, 22:01
First off.
Christ did not establish Church.
He established the gathering of believers in rememberance of Him.
Secondly,
Peter was not given the key to heaven.
Peter's Answer was the Key to heaven.
Matthew Chapter 16 verse 16-19
(Peter's Answer to a question posed by Christ)
16 "And Simon Peter answered and said, thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God."
(Jesus Tell him that God had revealed that answer to Peter.)
17 "And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood had not revealed it unto thee, but my Father whic is in heaven."
(His church is founded on the answer that Chris is the Son of God)
18 "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
(note the Greek uses the word for "you(s)" as in more then one. this is translated into 'thee'. )
19 "And I will give unto 'thee' the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and what soever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Thirdly,
The anabaptists have always existed outside the Roman Church.
Next point is best to make understood is that the Vatican is the only city that has EVER had the title BABYLON THE GREAT and that it is the only City to this day that occupies "Seven Hills" which is also another name given to rome in the years around Christ's life.

And the Offensive!
Rome and the Vatican supported the Nazi Party in 1932-1940 and also flew the Nazi flag in support of Hitler during the war.
They have never apologized officially for that action.
Rome murdered 3.8 Million people who were Hussites who separated from the Catholic Church to protest the sins of the clergy. (Note it was a peace full separation that had the support of the King of the region.
The King was the King from the song "Good King Wenceslas"
He was also the king who lead an alliance against the Hun and Attilla's Nephew.

The Pope was never mention in the bible as well.... but that opens up another can of worms....
the Catholic Church was started under Constantine the Emperor who saw his nation being divided along language, religion and ethnic lines. He had executed christians before. He decided to unit the people in the only thing that he had control of "Religion". He created a church that still held to traditional Roman Beliefs and yet gave the appearance of being the fastest growing non-ethnic based religion. Examine old roman beliefs and procedures and you will see that they match the practices in the church of Rome. This is a topic of great interest to me I have studied it well from both sides of the line. This is my stand. This is where facts lead.

Constantine's Church is sitting on the site that is identified in revelations as the Women who rides the Beast.

Get use to it.
24-04-2004, 22:10
IT was not PETER who converted the Gentiles!
Read Carefully!
He was busy in Jerusalem.
Saul/Paul was the greatest out reache to the Gentiles.
Read Carefully!
Dont mix up your facts with fiction from out of movies.

Peter like Paul only ended up in Rome when they were to be executed.
A Catholic myth puts Peter at Rome three times.
But no documentation is provided to support that statement.
24-04-2004, 22:12
Sorry Reichskamphen,
I have a bad habit of going off "half cocked".
My apologies.
Hotengovia
24-04-2004, 22:24
The Most Serene Republic of Hotengovia, member of the BHE Fleet Station Vangaurd, requests permission to send a representative to observe this meeting. While we are not ourselves a christian nation, we view ourselves as agnostic, we value the virtues of compassion, tolerance and helping your fellow man as much as any christian. We hope to recieve an affirmative answer

President Wells
Hotengovia
Baltiamo
24-04-2004, 22:28
Religion is a freedom not to be abused. The promotion of such singular religious movements is a prejudice against Hinduism, Buddhism and other such faiths. The Democratic States of Baltiamo understands freedoms and we ask that all representatives consider all religions, not just Christianity. Equality is a corner stone of peace.

~Baltiamo - Trinity Seas

Live By The Law Of Liberty
Diminix
25-04-2004, 01:31
You people are way too religious.
Reichskamphen
25-04-2004, 03:11
Hotengovia, I have no problems with you sending a representative.

Vecne, no appologies needed. I am going to open another thread for the addressing of doctrinal concernes until they are addressed in the meeting. I will post the link here when I make it.

OOC: Also, about the Catholic New Testament. It was developed from the Latin Vulgate which had numerous proven errors inserted both intentionally and accientally over the many years. Popes have edited the Bible...its true. Also, the translation could not be seven horns. It speaks of the beast having seven heads and , I think, 8 horns. The horns are already dealt with. Then it says, here is the mind that hath wisdom..in otherwords "what this means is" that the seven heads are seven mountains (hills is not in the text, but it is read as that.) And then the 8 horns are Kings five of which have come, two are yet to come, and the eigth will be the beast itself. And the woman which sits atop the beast and on the seven mountains (hills) is that city which now (meaning in John's day) reigneth over the Kings of the earth. There was only one city that reigned over all the Kings of the earth in that time...and that is Rome.

In the new testament and old testament horns are used as images and metaphors. Here, the metaphor is being explained. When a metaphor is being explained, the explanation is literal, and horns would not have been used as they are metaphorical symbols. Also, along that line of thinking, the mountains cannot be interpreted as anything else. They themselves are the literal explanation of the symbol. They are what they are. There is no other way to interpret this passage.

Also, Peter was not the first Pope. Christ did unto Peter just as he did to the rest of the Apostles. Matthew 16:18, the Rock of the Church verse, is also easily refuted when you examine the greek. He calls peter a pebble (petros) and when he says upon this rock, he uses the word (petra) a large shelf of immovable rock. Any student of Greek would know that it is a VERY gender specific language and the two words are not interchangable at all. I can give examples from many classic Greek works should they be desired. There is debate as to whether Jesus was referring to himself as the Rock, or Peter's faith, but either way, there is no debate among anyone who has any knowledge of the original Greek as to whether or not he was referring to peter...he was not. Christ established no leader of the Church but himself. You can give me any example from scripture and I will refute it.

I can go on for hours about this...which is why we need a new thread!
Reichskamphen
25-04-2004, 03:23
Also, I respect the right of others to practice whatever religion they please, like a good Christian should, I shall not persecute them, I shall not do any manner of evil to them.

However, Christianity is the only true religion. There is no way to the father but by the son. Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life. There is none other. This is a meeting to determine how better conduct ourselves as a religious community and assess our strengths and weaknesses, and we cannot do this while those who would seek our destruction weedle into the ranks.

God Bless,

His Imperial Highness,
Viktor Leipzig I
Jeruselem
25-04-2004, 13:22
OOC

Reichskamphen, another thing. Being a land of Jews or their descendant we don't trust Germans at all (reference to WW II).

My interpretion of Revelations is different.

Rome cannot be "New Babylon" due to the just one mention about seven hills
(1) The use of the word Harlot to me refers to ISIS, Goddess of Harlots used by Babylon and Egypt. "Liberty" is the modern ISIS with the same 7 horned crown
(2) The beast is associated with "fine linen, and purple, and scarlet" colours (white, dark blue, red) - like the French and US flag. The Vatican flag is does not use these colours.
(3) Rome is OLD Bablyon after Babylon itself. "Mystery Babylon" is called Mystery because it cannot be Iraq or Rome anymore.
(4) Rome or the Catholic nations of the Crusaders during the peak of Papal power have never occupied Iraq! The US now does.
Reichskamphen
25-04-2004, 14:10
OOC: Good points, but easily to be refuted, we definately need to make another thread, but I don't have time, Jerusalem, if you would be so kind as to do that, then I will post there.
Jeruselem
25-04-2004, 14:47
OOC: Good points, but easily to be refuted, we definately need to make another thread, but I don't have time, Jerusalem, if you would be so kind as to do that, then I will post there.

Here ya go
http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=141619
Reichskamphen
27-04-2004, 03:35
Allright, if this is going to be it, I will launch the thread for the meeting. It will be up by tommorrow! God Bless,

-Viktor
Reichskamphen
28-04-2004, 00:51
http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3099056#3099056

Here is the link to the RP Thread! COME ALL!
Reichskamphen
28-04-2004, 00:51
http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3099056#3099056

Here is the link to the RP Thread! COME ALL!
Derscon
29-04-2004, 01:38
TABLE

Count the Popes in History

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8

Pius

Leo

Gregory

Benedict

John

Paul

John Paul

New Papal Name


1
+2
+3
+4
+5
+6
+7
+8
+9
+10
+11
+12










78
1
+2
+3
+4
+5
+6
+7
+8
+9
+10
+11
+12
+13









91
1
+2
+3
+4
+5
+6
+7
+8
+9
+10
+11
+12
+13
+14
+15
+16






136
1
+2
+3
+4
+5
+6
+7
+8
+9
+10
+11
+12
+13
+14








105
1
+2
+3
+4
+5
+6
+7
+8
+9
+10
+11
+12
+13
+14
+15
+16
+17
+18
+19
+20
+21

231
1
+2
+3
+4
+5
+6
















21
1
+2




















3
1














Total Name Count:

1. Pius
78

2. Leo
+91
3. Gregory
+136
4. Benedict
+105
5. John
+231
6. Paul
+21
7. John Paul
+3
8. New Name
+1
666
==================

Historically protestants identified the Whore riding the beast as the Catholic church and the beast was identified as the government of the Papal power. "church + state"



Three phases of the beast!



1. Beast "was" 2. Beast "is not" 3. Beast "yet is"



1st phase ("was") church during the dark ages

Revelation 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. (Dark ages)

Revelation 17:8 "And the beast thou sawest "Was" ( Dark ages)

1798 Napoleon captures Pius VI, and decrees the Papal government dead! John Paul II apologizes for the atrocities of the past. 1798 ends the 1st phase. (Political control of church ends 1798)

---------- ------------- -----------

2nd phase ("is not") 7 kings after 1798.



Revelation 17:8 Beast "is not" and ascending

Revelation 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are 7 mountains, on which the woman sitteth and are 7 kings. John sees the vision from the prospective of the 6th king "one is" (Paul) the 6th Papal name since 1798. He will go down in history as starting the ecumenical movement to reunite protestants back to Rome.


This second phase is where the count starts at 1798. Since Napoleon captured and killed Pius, he declared the Papacy dead, and henceforth had no more power. This also has reference to the mortal wound a head of the beast received. Since from 1798-on is when the Papacy had no real ruling power, this was the period of "is not."
------------------------- ---------------------- --------------------
The Third Phase -- "yet to come." This is the antichrist. This is the eighth head of the Beast. As there were seven names since 1798, there are seven heads on the Beast in Revelation. John Paul II is dieing; his time is short in the Papacy. The new pope who takes on his own name will bring this count to 666, as seen by the chart.

Praise be to God for His Word.

Praise be to Him for his Revelation.
Crimsdale
29-04-2004, 02:48
We the Athiest country of Crimsdale recently had a rebel faction claiming they knew who the new messiah was. We swiftly moved in and killed all who spoke of christ and his fantasy adventures. We gave them thier own last supper to whine about.
Reichskamphen
29-04-2004, 03:29
There is no new Messiah, those who you killed were likely heretics anyway. There is only one Messiah, that is Christ Jesus. Still you should not kill any of them in the first place.

His Imperial Highness,
Viktor Leipzig I
Reichskamphen
29-04-2004, 03:35
You have some interesting points, Derscon. However, the 7 Kings, it says five are already come, the sixth is now reigning (john's time) and the 8th shall be the beast itself.

Now Rome before that time, according to Pliny, had 5 forms of governent that had passed away, the 6th one, the Empire, was then ruling when John wrote it. The Italian State perhaps is the 7th, Perhaps the Papal States, but it is likely that the 7th has already passed. All that is left for the beast to reign directly. I am assuming this may be done through some concordat with the Church and Italy or something. But a new Roman Empire will eventually assert itself. It will be this Empire which God tears apart.

Interesting thought about the wounding of the head though.
Reichskamphen
30-04-2004, 04:29
BUMP
Derscon
05-05-2004, 23:33
You have some interesting points, Derscon. However, the 7 Kings, it says five are already come, the sixth is now reigning (john's time) and the 8th shall be the beast itself.

Now Rome before that time, according to Pliny, had 5 forms of governent that had passed away, the 6th one, the Empire, was then ruling when John wrote it. The Italian State perhaps is the 7th, Perhaps the Papal States, but it is likely that the 7th has already passed. All that is left for the beast to reign directly. I am assuming this may be done through some concordat with the Church and Italy or something. But a new Roman Empire will eventually assert itself. It will be this Empire which God tears apart.

Interesting thought about the wounding of the head though.

Who ever said this dealt with when he wrote it? Remember, John was looking IN THE FUTURE when he wrote it. The prophecies most likely apply to NOW, not then.
Reichskamphen
06-05-2004, 03:23
The wording of the text said, "is now reigning". Which meant in the present. Which meant John's day. For a serious reading of the book of Revelations one must atleast accept that he was writing in proper grammar. His present tense referred to the present. Furthermore, this was an explanation of the symbol, so it was not another symbol in itself. It was literal. It actually represented the one that was ruling then.
Yugolsavia
07-05-2004, 01:33
Yugolsavia dictator arrived at the room and apologized for being late he was asscorted by vissolick kruypsa, Nikki androvitz, Jamel Pushkin and vicholit Lepunsky. He stated he had a communist genocide and had to sighn some death warrents.
Reichskamphen
08-05-2004, 04:27
Yea, the RP died. No body came that said they were going to. Thankyou for coming even if you did come late. You get some brownie points over here atleast.
Jeruselem
09-05-2004, 08:40
You have some interesting points, Derscon. However, the 7 Kings, it says five are already come, the sixth is now reigning (john's time) and the 8th shall be the beast itself.

Now Rome before that time, according to Pliny, had 5 forms of governent that had passed away, the 6th one, the Empire, was then ruling when John wrote it. The Italian State perhaps is the 7th, Perhaps the Papal States, but it is likely that the 7th has already passed. All that is left for the beast to reign directly. I am assuming this may be done through some concordat with the Church and Italy or something. But a new Roman Empire will eventually assert itself. It will be this Empire which God tears apart.

Interesting thought about the wounding of the head though.

POINT 1

You are assuming there's been no change to form of government since the Roman Empire?

Italy
6) Roman Empire (upto 476 AD)
7) Barbarian tribes in Italy (Dark ages)
8 Christian/Papal states (Middle ages)
9) Unified Italian state (Renaissance to 20th)
10) Fascist state (pre-WWII ending)
11) Democratic Italy (now)

Papal Rome only
6) Roman Empire (upto 476 AD)
7) Early Eastern Orthordox style Roman Catholic Church = Byzantine like
8 Western Church (Schism with Byzantium)
9) Avignon heresy
10) Back to Rome church
11) Current church (post Napoleanic)

POINT 2

2nd stage?

0 Pius VI (1775-99)
1 Pius VII (1800-23)
2 Leo XII (1823-29)
3 Pius VIII (1829-30)
4 Gregory XVI (1831-46)
5 Blessed Pius IX (1846-78 )
6 Leo XIII (1878-1903)
7 St. Pius X (1903-14)
8 Benedict XV (1914-22)
9 Pius XI (1922-39)
10 Pius XII (1939-58 )
11 Blessed John XXIII (1958-63)
12 Paul VI (1963-78 )
13 John Paul I (1978 )
14 John Paul II (1978—)

14 popes since Pius VI? Not 7. Skipping names is cheating.
Derscon
09-05-2004, 14:24
I noticed that too in my research. Unfortunately, I forget the resoning for it. O_o