NationStates Jolt Archive


Emperor Andreus' audience with Pope Leo XIV (closed RP)

Pantocratoria
16-04-2004, 05:04
OOC: Some background about Pantocratoria: http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=74255

You might particularly want to read the History of Pantocratoria post.

IC:
The Emperor Andreus had enjoyed his time in Rome so far. He fancied that he was the first of his line to visit Rome itself (as opposed to his capital, New Rome) since the Emperor John VIII Palaeologus, who likewise visited the ancient city to seek an audience with the Pope. That audience had been successful, after a fashion - it had successfully brought the Eastern and Western Churches back into communion with each other in 1439, although that union had helped Constantinople precious little. It was that union, however, which had led to the formation of a Catholic Knightly Order of the Pantocrator, and then to the establishment of Pantocratoria itself as a Catholic nation, rather than a Greek Orthodox one.

So preoccupied was the Emperor with his thoughts about history that he barely noticed the Major-Domo enter the lavish antechamber. He snapped out of it at once when he was told that the Holy Father would now see him. Standing, he made sure that his purple cloak was arranged in a presentable fashion, and shifted the diadem on his brow ever so slightly. The door opened, and the Emperor entered, and knelt at the Pope's feet, waiting to receive his blessing.
Holy Vatican See
16-04-2004, 18:06
Leo gave the Apostolic blessing, and smiled at the Emperor. “We are very happy to welcome your Majesty to the Vatican.”

He gestured to Andreus to seat himself.

“Please, take a moment to update us on the well-being of your family, as well as matters pertaining to the Faith in Pantocratoria.”

(OOC, thanks for the link—great national background thread!)
Pantocratoria
17-04-2004, 14:04
"Thankyou, Your Holiness." says the Emperor, seating himself. "My daughter Anna was very recently married to Prince Joseph of the Empire of Excalbia, and I'm blessed in that I've no ill news to report of any member of my immediate family. Thankyou very much for asking, Holy Father."

"I am growing increasingly worried, however, about the health of the Church in the Empire, Your Holiness." the Emperor ventures. "As you know, Pantocratoria was originally settled by those fleeing the Moslem conquest of Constantinople. Greek in origin, although in communion with Rome, they followed the Greek Rite. Sometime later a second large wave of immigration, this time predominantly from France, settled in Pantocratoria. My family is predominantly French. A sizable majority of Pantocratorians speak French instead of Greek, and as a result, after the Second Vatican Council, Mass has almost always been said in French in Pantocratoria."

"Recently, we have started to phase out the Greek language altogether. This has created some resentment from elements of the Greek community. Already I have been told that many parishes have begun to adopt the Byzantine Catholic rite, in defiance of the Episcopal Council of the Church in Pantocratoria." the Emperor pauses. "The re-introduction of a Greek rite would massively undermine my policy of having just one national language. I had hoped that Your Holiness could provide some guidance in this matter."
Holy Vatican See
18-04-2004, 02:13
The Pope smiled. "Our best wishes and blessings to Princess Anna and Prince Joseph, we will pray their union is happy and fruitful."

"As to the issue of language, this is a matter of some interest. As you may be aware from our Encyclical "Magna Opus Dei," we are hoping to make the Mass more accessible to the Faithful by increasing the use of both vernacular and Tridentine options, if this is agreeable to the Synod of Bishops. The delicate balance of language and ritual is very critical to enable the widest participation and regular Mass attendance of the Faithful."

"We are curious as to the purpose of "phasing out" the Greek language. There remains a substantial number of Greek speaking people in Pantocratoria, surely?" The Holy Father's tone was mildly enquiring. "Is there a sufficient benefit to enforcing a single 'national language' in a land where two have existed side-by-side for centuries, to offset the resentment and anger such a policy might engender?"
Pantocratoria
18-04-2004, 13:07
"Yes, I've discussed Your Holiness' encyclical with Cardinal Poitiers-Phocas." the Emperor says. "Personally, as a child I enjoyed the mystery and ritual of the Tridentine Mass, but I understand the specific liturgy being adopted by some of these parishes is the Divine Liturgy of St John Chrystodom. They're not just abandoning the French language, but they're reverting to the Byzantine rite. To my understanding, it is inappropriate for these decisions to be made at the parish level. In any case, that is the principle issue facing the Church in Pantocratoria, although perhaps when my bishops speak to Your Holiness, they'll say otherwise."

"The purpose of phasing out the Greek language... erm, perhaps I should say, the introduction of just one official language, is to encourage and foster a sense of national unity, and to give all Pantocratorians an equal chance, a common tongue. As it is, the quality of education which is available to children who speak French is much higher than is available to those who speak Greek. Most of the Greek-speaking community is rural, and the vast majority of Pantocratoria's most prestigious schools and universities are located in the French-speaking cities." says the Emperor. "For 20 years the government has followed a policy to try to establish Greek schools and universities of an equal quality, but the present Imperial Government has admitted that the old policy has failed. That's just one of the many reasons my government introduced the one-language policy, there are many other reasons of course, both social and economic, but that is the one which I found most compelling."
Holy Vatican See
19-04-2004, 02:47
Leo nodded thoughtfully. "The Byzantine rite does indeed require dispensation for administration--and should not be regularized in any case. If the Ordo Novum is sufficiently available in Greek, it is surprising that the matter should arise. We are grateful to you for bringing this to our attention; and we will have the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments look into the matter. Your Episcopal Council should be encouraged to seek the Congregation's assistance in the matter.

"As to the national language issue, it is certainly an important goal to make the valuable resources of education universally available. We will pray that whatever course your Majesty pursues will be appropriately guided by the Holy Spirit to effect such an outcome."

Although no one "took notes" any more, all Audiences were recorded, and after each, Monsignor Verelst and his secretaries would review the Pontiff's words and create, effectively, a "to do" list for Leo to review later and approve and delegate as appropriate.

The Pope smiled. "We hope at some point also to revive the Nunciature in Pantocratoria, if this is acceptable to your Majesty?"
Pantocratoria
19-04-2004, 10:08
"Absolutely, Your Holiness, it has been far too long since a Papal nunzio was sent to the Empire." says Andreus happily. "There is another matter I wished to discuss with you. There was a time when my ancestors, the Roman Emperors of Constantinople, were honoured by Christians everywhere, even when the Eastern Church was in schism with the West."

The Emperor produces a sheet of paper from beneath his cloak.

"In 1395, the Patriarch of Constantinople, Anthony, wrote a letter to Prince Vasily of Moscow, saying that:" the Emperor begins to read from the paper. "The basileus is anointed with the great myrrh and is appointed basileus and autokrator of the Romans, and indeed of all Christians. Everywhere the name of the emperor is commemorated by all patriarchs and metropolitans and bishops wherever men are called Christians, which no other ruler or governor ever received. Indeed he enjoys such great authority over all that even the Latins themselves, who are not in communion with our church, render him the same honour and submission which they did in the old days when they were united with us."

The Emperor folds up the letter and puts it away.

"It seems to me, Holy Father, that as the rightful autocrator of the Romans, and as heir to the legacy of the Emperors who have gone before me, that I should... take a more active role in the Church." says Andreus. "Is it not my duty to be more than simply a Christian ruler? Should I not also contribute in a more tangible way to the Church than any other Christian prince? Throughout my reign I have tried to be more than an emperor who happens to be Catholic. In those dark days during which Your Holiness' predecessors, of blessed memory, fell out of contact with much of the world, I organised and chaired a Great Council of the Church, at which representatives of the Catholic communities of many nations worked to reforge the bonds as we awaited the re-establishment of contact with the Holy See."

The Emperor pauses, allowing the Pope to take everything he is saying in.

"When I chaired that council, I felt that for once, I was living up to the legacy of my predecessors, Constantine the Great, Justinian, and all the others. Please, Holy Father, tell me, in what role should I best serve? Can you describe the proper role of the Emperor of the Romans, Equal of the Apostles, God's Vicegerent on Earth, and all those other titles which I have inherited, in today's Church?"

(OOC: Here is the thread in which the council to which I refer took place. At the time, there was no agreed upon NS Pope. http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=85354 )
Holy Vatican See
21-04-2004, 20:44
The Pope listened to Andreus with eyes slightly narrowed and a slow, faint expression that might have been a smile. When the Pantocratorian finished, Leo’s eyes opened fully, and the expression broadened into a definite smile.

“Wonderful. We are very grateful for your Majesty’s offer, and it comes at a particularly timely moment. We have for some time had a project in mind…” the Pontiff trailed off, thinking, then resumed. “It is an undertaking that has many implications, and it still needs further consideration among our counselors here in Rome. However, if your Majesty is of this mind, may we send you an Extraordinary Legate to Pantocratoria to discuss this matter, in a few weeks?”

(OOC, this is NOT a putoff, we do have a very interesting project under consideration. But the Pope would never raise something with so many implications in a formal audience, where it is not normal practice to undertake substantive discussions beyond what Andreus has just done—raising an issue for future consideration/action. When this audience is over we will start a new thread for the discussion/pursuit of this matter.)
Pantocratoria
22-04-2004, 05:00
"Absolutely, Your Holiness, we will receive the Extraordinary Legate with all honour, deference and enthusiasm at the Imperial Court of Christ Pantocrator in New Rome." replies the Emperor.

"May I seek Your Holiness' advice in a personal matter relating to my daughter, whose marriage we briefly discussed earlier?" he enquires. (OOC: And, assuming Leo gives his consent, he continues)

"My daughter is, naturally, a devout Catholic, however, her husband, Prince Joseph, while still Christian, is a Protestant, belonging to the national Church of Excalbia." says the Emperor. "As I understand it, the Church of Excalbia is fairly similar to the Church of England in most respects. In any case, it is my understand that my daughter is required to bring her children up as Catholics. However, I do not know what discussions she and Prince Joseph have had on the issue. Could Your Holiness clarify for both my daughter and her husband, and for all Christians, what the rules are for mixed marriages, that is to say, marriages in which there is a disparity of cult between the husband and wife? It seems to me that in today's world, this is an issue which is more and more come across."
Holy Vatican See
23-04-2004, 06:19
Leo nodded. "In this respect, your Majesty, Church doctrine has changed little. In order to gain the consent of the Church for the administration of a Canonically valid marriage sacrament, your daughter and son-in-law should promise the baptism and subsequent education and confirmation of their children into the Church."

"While we are not currently in Communion with the Excalbian Church, there is considerable congruence of practice and even of many aspects of doctrine. In such a case, if there are doubts about the matter, it should be referred to the Tribunal of the Rota. Archbishop Calveggio is currently acting as Dean of the Tribunal, he can accept any questions you or your daughter or son-in-law might have, and initiate the process of formal examination, if needed."
Pantocratoria
26-04-2004, 19:03
"Cardinal Conomos already saw to the matter in the case of my daughter's wedding, Your Holiness, although I wasn't privy to those discussions, nor to the discussions she has had with her husband on the matter." says the Emperor. "I don't think I put it particularly well, and I apologise, Holy Father. What I meant was that my recent personal experience brought the issue to mind, and that, in my opinion, it seems that in today's world, disparity of cult is an issue often over-shadowed by romance and the secular marital ideal we see portrayed in the media. Overlooking issues like it contributes to the... impermanence of far too many modern marriages. Perhaps a statement from the Vatican would encourage young people to consider disparity of cult, and indeed, the many other significant but all too often overlooked factors, when they are considering marriage?"

OOC: You can finish up the audience in your next post if you'd like, I've covered pretty much everything I had wanted to.
Holy Vatican See
30-04-2004, 00:01
Leo nodded. “Disparity of cult is certainly an often-overlooked factor in the planning of many marriages. Young people who neglect to seek out, or worse—who do not have available to them—the kind of careful pre-marital counseling that the Church advises are at increased risk for long-term unhappiness.”

He smiled ruefully, “Although we cannot imagine that a mere statement from the Vatican would carry any more weight with today’s youngsters than it has done for the last few generations, it is a matter we will recommend to the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments. And to Catholic Education, as well. It is responsible and wise to remind each generation as the issues arise.”

Monsignor Verelst stepped forward then, a signal that the Audience was drawing to a close, and the Emperor received the Apostolic Blessing.


Over dinner that night, in the Papal Apartment, Leo talked with a couple of his more intimate counselors—Renard of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Esteban the Dean of the College, and Angelini of the Secretariat.

“I had an interesting Audience today, with the Emperor Andreus of Pantocratoria,” he began.

“Oh?” Angelini looked up from a dish of lightly sautéed scallops over delicate angel hair pasta. “Did he bring up the matter of his daughter’s marriage?”

“Yes, but that was not the interesting part. In any case, that matter was fully and regularly arranged, and the children will be raised in the Church. No, the interesting part was when his Majesty asked if there were some matter appropriate to a Catholic ruler of his standing, which he might undertake upon our behalf.” Leo looked around at Renard and Esteban, who had shared a certain discussion of Catholic heads of state some years back.

Renard looked up quickly. “This is to say, the old idea?”

The Pope nodded, and Esteban looked intrigued. “With Andreus? It might work…”

Angelini shook his head. “I do not understand,” he said, spearing a tender scallop. What idea?”

The Pope nodded to Renard, who had initially brought the matter up some years back. The Frenchman took a sip of his wine, leaned back slightly in his chair, and expounded.

“The problem, Carlo, like so many problems, is an outgrowth of the Vatican Councils.”

Leo and Vicente Esteban exchanged a quick, involuntary grin—Renard loved nothing better than a chance to express his displeasure with the Vatican Councils—but although the French Cardinal caught the exchange, and acknowledged it with a quick, expressive flicker of the eyelids, he did not allow it to distract him.

“With the abrogation of the Papacy’s role as temporal rulers of any portion of Christendom beyond our little administrative facility here in Rome, our role has changed. With some wisdom,” Renard conceded rather grudgingly, “the successors of Pius X sought to consolidate the Church’s domain in the domain of the individual Christian conscience, through moral teaching and example, and the strengthening of the Church’s influence in matters spiritual.”

“For a time, in the twentieth century, this looked as though it might be a sufficient strategy—as the spread of representative government seemed like an inevitable juggernaut that would ultimately envelope all of the free world. However,” he gave a very French shrug, “the march of democracy ultimately ground to a halt, and since then absolutism has made a considerable resurgence.”

“Now, the ‘individual Christian conscience’ approach to promoting the ideals of Christian life can be effective enough, where those same individual Christians have some role in the political self-determination of their governments and their governments’ policies.”

“But what of the absolutists? What of the monarchies, dictatorships, and other governments where the individual Christian conscience—unless it happens to be the conscience of the ruler himself—plays no part at all in shaping the policies and culture of national life?”

Angelini frowned. “In countries where that individual is Catholic, surely…?”

Renard shook his head. “Carlo, you know better than that. A man or woman who is exercising that kind of temporal power has far too many temptations, far too many distractions, far too many plausible justifications to allow the end to justify the means.”

The Secretary of State nodded. “And so this idea of yours….?” he prodded.

Renard glanced at the Holy Father before continuing. “A new Catholic Order, Carlo. A lay order, formed for the spiritual guidance and support of temporal rulers, focused on helping them understand the teachings of the Church on the appropriate place of their Catholic faith in relation to their temporal responsibilities.”

He abandoned his pose of languid pedantry, and leaned forward, elbows on the table, the wineglass in his left hand, gesturing with his right hand.

“Listen, my friend, how many times have we agreed that there is only one thing worse than a vicious tyrannical abuser of human rights, put in charge of a whole nation of innocent people—and that is a Catholic tyrannical abuser of human rights, put in charge of a whole nation of innocent people? How much harm it does to the Church when some Catholic monarch or President-for-Life uses the Church teachings that should be protecting his people’s liberties to deny those liberties? How far it sets back our mission when what should be the live-giving, spirit-empowering doctrines of our Church are used solely to perpetuate the power and control of some dictator?”

Angelini—and indeed, the others—were nodding, now.

“We cannot change that overnight. And we cannot change it simply by admonishing these rulers from inside St. Peter’s. The most effective way to change how Catholic rulers rule, is to engage those rulers in the task of thoroughly examining the problems, deepening their understanding of the magisterium, and—under the guidance of the Church—formulating their own solutions to the problem.”

Now the cherubic-faced Secretary of State was smiling. “Brilliant, Jean-Paul! A truly visionary idea.”

Renard shrugged, again, and sipped his wineglass, nodding toward the Pope. “In truth, Carlo, it was the Holy Father who first mooted it, in the context of a discussion of diplomatic solutions to some of our most pressing problems.”

“And your Holiness is ready to proceed with this notion? To initiate such an Order?” Esteban asked. “And what role would you ask the Emperor of Pantocratoria to play?”

Leo gestured for the steward to clear the plates, and serve cappuccino. “Andreus has organized some very productive and interesting dialogues, in the Church context. It was my thought that perhaps he would be interested in doing so again—bringing together as many of his fellow Catholic heads of state as possible to discuss the feasibility of this idea, and how it might be accomplished. We would assign him an extraordinary spiritual advisor to assist and guide him in the process, in addition to establishing a full Nunciature in Pantocratoria.”

“Ahhh….” murmured Angelini. “…an ‘extraordinary spiritual advisor?’ And who would that be? Or has your Holiness considered the matter as yet?”

Leo smiled. “I would leave the recommendation of the advisor up to Jean-Paul. It must be a man of impeccable theological depth and clarity as well as thorough grounding in Canon Law. A pillar of orthodoxy, of course. Not unlike our dear Jean-Paul—although I hope, Jean-Paul—” he added as an aside “—that you can see your way clear to appointing someone who has proceeded just un molto piccolino beyond the Oath against modernism in his political views?”

The others roared with laughter, and even Renard’s face took on a rather sour grin. “As your Holiness wishes, of course. More of a Casuist than a Jansenist, I presume?”

Esteban chuckled. “Of the possible sides upon which to err, I would think that in this case casuistry would be the lesser of two evils, certainly.”

“Good! Bring me a list of possibilities, we will discuss it. In the mean time, Carlo, see what you can do about expediting the matter of a Nunciature in Pantocratoria, yes?”

“Of course, Holy Father.”