NationStates Jolt Archive

Ok, so I've been thinking lately on ways to expand alliances and stuff on NationStates, and I've come up with the idea of a universal assembly. I already have the leadership structure and I'm almost done with voting procedures.

However, unlike most alliances which are groups of nations, this assembly will be a group of alliances. The best part being - not all the alliances have to like each other. However, there will be benefits to joining as well as other incentives.

Now obviously this is the first of many planning threads, and will consist of mainly garbled notes to ourselves and one another, but I hope that the idea will be taken seriously.

Vote, and post what you think.

~Steel Butterfly

...ok...the forum took away your option to vote... :?

So just post your thoughts on the topic I guess...

I think I can get the Proxima Centauri Defense Initiative and a few other alliances I'm in on board. It sounds like a rather good plan actually.

Like I said, I have the basics like command structure set up, I just need/want some imput on the details.

This could be a good body for inter-alliance interaction. I think it would be really good if Metus and UnAPS started going at eachother (but not a war) more. NationStates was so much more interesting when we actually had to fear the GDODAD, not when they stayed out of everyone's way.

It would be almost like a huge senate, where alliances could discuss issues among other things.

If you people want some more details just ask.

"I am honored to have been invited to this discussion. As Secretary General of the United Alliance of Progressive States (UnAPS), I am in some position to be able to speak for the alliance, though I would hesitate before making any major statements. I would also wish to speak to my counterpart from Copiosa Scotia, our Secretary of Diplomacy.

This assembly idea is intriguing. While we have some reservations about associating ourselves with such groups as Arda, GDODAD and the Reich, we -I speak for Edolia, not the alliance- are not entirely adverse to the prospect of participating in some sort of assembly that would work to keep the peace and promote understanding and cooperation between different alliances. I would like to hear some of the suggestions regarding the make-up and structure of this assembly and I will need to discuss with my counterparts throughout the alliance -the UnAPS is a very democratic organization- before making any more detailed statements."
Nikita von Gerburg
Edölian Delegate to the United Alliance of Progressive States

:wink: While I always love RP, this can be OOC if it makes it easier.

OOC: Just making clear, my last post was OOC.

IC:

The Government of Feline announces its support for this, and will join without the rest of the UnAPS if it is possible for a single nation to join and the UnAPS declines membership.

if it is possible for a single nation to join .

Now that's something I'm unsure of...what do you guys think?

Cool idea. I can probably get a few of the alliances im in to join.

This assembly idea is intriguing. While we have some reservations about associating ourselves with such groups as Arda, GDODAD and the Reich, we -I speak for Edolia, not the alliance- are not entirely adverse to the prospect of participating in some sort of assembly that would work to keep the peace and promote understanding and cooperation between different alliances. I would like to hear some of the suggestions regarding the make-up and structure of this assembly and I will need to discuss with my counterparts throughout the alliance -the UnAPS is a very democratic organization- before making any more detailed statements."

Ditto

The people of Hattia might get rather angry if we cooperate with Arda, GDODAD, or the Reich. I am sure they would support such efforts to help ensure peace.

OOC: I understand where some of you guys are coming from...however...

I'm not asking for a blood pact here or even a defense agreement...only a forum. 99.99999999999999% of national sovereignty will be kept.

I think he's talking about something like the real-world UN. Right?

lol...only this one will have a purpose :wink:

I must admit that this idea is based of the UN...but that's about it.

((OOC: Alright, from my understanding this is basically another NS version of the UN, only this one won't suck. Now I've seen non-UN organizations rise and fall, but I really have faith that Steel will see this one through.

We will attend the meeting, though whether we will become or remain a member is still under debate. I'll be dragging a couple other nations from the Corporate Islands into the mix, too))

ooc: I suggest restricting the entrance of individual nations, unless a specific position was created specifically for an individual nation. ie. Monitor or some such. However. such a position would have to be above reproach, and thus this single nation would have to be an unaligned state.

As for the idea as a whole, I am completely ok with this idea, as long as it does indeed represent a completely neutral ground. Base it loosely off of the UN, with each alliance being able to offer a single national representative.

The purpose of such a gathering? I can see the usefullness of it by way of having an oversight alliance that would oversee treaties and such, a possible subcourt where individual nations can be brought to justice, trade arrangements, and so on and so forth.

*shrug* As for leadership, I suggest a bimonthly vote to elect a single member state to a First Minister position to be used only as a post to preside over a meeting. Parlimentary procedures and such.

Which reminds me, positions such as Secretary, Parlimentarian, and Security Advisor should also be created.

Any thoughts?

OOC: I like it. I agree with Resi that all the others, except the Max Barry version, UN organizations have died out. But I've seen your determination back when you were running almost all of the GDODAD. You held that together and only complained a bit. I think you could pull this off if you stick to it. I can't speak for the APTO, but hell, if they don't join... I'll join another alliance that will. ;)

Dunno if you would allow it, SB, but since I have no leadership position in any of the two alliances, mainly, I am in, how bout I be allowed to join in as a Nation itself. I mean, I know its crazy, but just a membership position as the Colonial Union would be ok with me.

HOWEVER, if you disagree, I shall NEVER bring this up again. I promise. :D

OOC: Oy, I should be filled with such rage right now. I did the exact same thing a few months ago, and nobody did a damn thing with it! What did I do wrong?

Anyway, I think this is a very good idea and would work to support it (At least, I would if my government hadn't just collapsed and all my territory dissolved into civil wars and invasions). Let me know if I can help in any way, but I can't think of anything right now.

OOC: Oy, I should be filled with such rage right now. I did the exact same thing a few months ago, and nobody did a damn thing with it! What did I do wrong?

Maybe it failed 'cause you're a crap-ass roleplayer and have never gotten over your n00b mentality?

SB has proven time and again that he's talented and is worthy of respect.

Whereas you have not.

Now that was pretty simple, now wasn't it?

This could be a good body for inter-alliance interaction. I think it would be really good if Metus and UnAPS started going at eachother (but not a war) more. NationStates was so much more interesting when we actually had to fear the GDODAD, not when they stayed out of everyone's way.

When we were more active we were warmongers and now that we're staying out of everyones way people also complain http://gathering.tweakers.net/global/smileys/frusty.gif

How about your command structure first, and then discussion. We can't judge what we can't see.

How about your command structure first, and then discussion. We can't judge what we can't see.

<<OOC: Seconded. I would also like to know whether or not there will be some sort of forum here that we'll be dealing with and whether or not it will be open to the public. If we have an assembly, how many representatives from each alliance will be allowed to attend? That's a question that seems to be rather important in our discussions back at UnAPS. Everyone wants a piece...>>

This could be a good body for inter-alliance interaction. I think it would be really good if Metus and UnAPS started going at eachother (but not a war) more. NationStates was so much more interesting when we actually had to fear the GDODAD, not when they stayed out of everyone's way.

When we were more active we were warmongers and now that we're staying out of everyones way people also complain http://gathering.tweakers.net/global/smileys/frusty.gif

OOC: Damned if you do, damned if you don't. :)

OOC: I never complained OOC about the warmongering of the GDODAD. In fact, it was part of what made this game really fun back in the golden age. IC, our country moaned about it as much as possible.

errr....tag...just in case

OOC then ... hmm ... Well it's an interesting proposition, to be sure. You -know- what I'm going to say about a good bit of it, yes? Sovereign right and all, as few entanglements as possible, etc. would be desireable. I was never in the UN for a reason, and didn't sign any pacts, agreements, and such for a good long while. Now a member of only 2 alliances (Trium (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=66033) & NDA (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=60132&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=)), one of which I'm co-founder.

While it's interesting to hear of 'benefits and incentives', I think I'd like to know more about them before I make any serious proposals within my alliances. Go fig - I tend to be a tad protective of them.

Also, Steel - appreciate the invite and all, but you do realize that a group founded by a member of the OotS is going to be looked at rather askance by my nation, yes? All that unpleasantness with Sketch a while back - we have long memories and damned if not a good bit of good old Sicilian attitude about betrayal and revenge on occasion. *grins*

I'm interested, personally. But really, it's up to the leaders of the APTO if our alliance would be interested.

But you said post your thoughts, so I will.

I'm interested. IC and OOC.

IC: THis could give my nation new chances for alliances. As you all know, AO is coming out of it's isolationism, and building up it's forces. It will also be looking for opportunities to expand. This includes not just territory, but also alliances, and the knowlage of who's out there.

OOC: A new element of the game. I have gotten slightly bored (since about January) and I feel it's time to do something new. That and since the UN is basicly run by a bunce of incompatent idiots....

Well, anyway, I like the idea.

BTW, Even if SB declines and/or denies my interest/wanting/acceptance of this, I say I am 100% interested and am willing to do whatever I can to assist in making this Alliance of National Alliances, if thats what it can be called, sucessfull. However, as I said before, if I am denied, then I shall never bug this thread again. :D

Anywho, really, OOC/IC/IRL/IN all that, I am very much interested in this and am, as I previously stated, am willing to assist Steel Butterfly in whatever needs to be done that I, as a possible participant, can do.

Anyway.... :D

BTW, Even if SB declines and/or denies my interest/wanting/acceptance of this, I say I am 100% interested and am willing to do whatever I can to assist in making this Alliance of National Alliances, if thats what it can be called, sucessfull. However, as I said before, if I am denied, then I shall never bug this thread again. :D

Anywho, really, OOC/IC/IRL/IN all that, I am very much interested in this and am, as I previously stated, am willing to assist Steel Butterfly in whatever needs to be done that I, as a possible participant, can do.

Anyway.... :D

tag-o.

Gah, times are hard for the freelance RPer, if you're not on the right lists then you can't get in. Personally I'm against anything that makes it harder for me to RP but since it doesn't apply to anyone else in the same way it doesn't really matter.

ooc: I suggest restricting the entrance of individual nations, unless a specific position was created specifically for an individual nation. ie. Monitor or some such. However. such a position would have to be above reproach, and thus this single nation would have to be an unaligned state.

As for the idea as a whole, I am completely ok with this idea, as long as it does indeed represent a completely neutral ground. Base it loosely off of the UN, with each alliance being able to offer a single national representative.

The purpose of such a gathering? I can see the usefullness of it by way of having an oversight alliance that would oversee treaties and such, a possible subcourt where individual nations can be brought to justice, trade arrangements, and so on and so forth.

*shrug* As for leadership, I suggest a bimonthly vote to elect a single member state to a First Minister position to be used only as a post to preside over a meeting. Parlimentary procedures and such.

Which reminds me, positions such as Secretary, Parlimentarian, and Security Advisor should also be created.

Any thoughts?

You're getting ahead of me...but anyhow...most of the ideas you've mentioned will be used in some way.

OOC: Oy, I should be filled with such rage right now. I did the exact same thing a few months ago, and nobody did a damn thing with it! What did I do wrong?

Well...while some people have it...others... :wink:

Also, Steel - appreciate the invite and all, but you do realize that a group founded by a member of the OotS is going to be looked at rather askance by my nation, yes? All that unpleasantness with Sketch a while back - we have long memories and damned if not a good bit of good old Sicilian attitude about betrayal and revenge on occasion. *grins*

OOC: Also, Nathi, while Sketch and I are cool OOC, I got into the order because of Praetor and the thought of a "new powerful space alliance". At the time, the Trium was the only one. I had applied in my "youth" but was denied due to participation in GDODAD. The idea of a new one was highly interesting. To this day, I know little of the Sketch conflict...which was not Order affiliated by the way...and I plan to keep it that way unless it becomes necessary for me to know of it.

Making the Order a kind of nemesis to the Trium is...interesting IC...as long as it doesn't expand from that.

This organization is not supposed to be a chummy coffee house to, as a friend of mine put it, "have tea and crumpits". It's...

...perhaps a way to bring order to chaos. It's something real nations would attempt to do...and they have attempted and done it. It's a means of good political RP, because lately, character-oriented plot driven RP's are overly overshadowing any other form.

Eh, who says that the other assemblies won't just take the structure and use it to their own advantage against another assembly in an all out brawling war?

"ALL HAIL MING THE MERCILESS"
:twisted: :lol: :twisted: :lol: :twisted: :lol: :twisted: :lol: :twisted: :lol: :twisted:

Now for the command structure.

There will be two sides of the command.

The first side is the Political side. It will be run by a President, who is elected to terms yet to be decided. The President will preside over the assembly, which is made up of the alliances involved.

Each alliance will get two reps, and therefore two votes. The Alliance's Leader (if there's more than one leader, chose one) and another Representative will represent each alliance. This is so that if one of the nations OOCly cannot go to the message board (which I will set up) often, or if one of them goes on vacation, there is still another left.

Then there is the Administrative side. It will be run by a Praetor, who heads the group of five Vice-Presidents. The VP's will head the Internal, Diplomacy, Economic, Security, and Judicial departments. The VP's are also elected, although I am not sure if it should be a direct election or not, because that could lead to some very bad things.

The High Council is made up of the Praetor, the President, and the five VP's. These are for major decisions that cannot be voted on. Both the Praetor and the President get one vote. If they disagree, and they very well could, then the VP's must gather to vote. Which ever side (pro or con) wins the majority, then that side goes towards a third vote.

Now here's the catch... :wink:

The Praetor is permanent, for mainly OOC reasons, but for some IC reasons. For one, this person will control the message boards, and is fully capable of doing so. For another, this person is the founder of the said organization. I'll give you one guess as to who it is.

However, as per the charter, the Praetor will have mostly Administrative duties, so as not to turn this person (me if you haven't guessed) into a raging dictator of the known universe. :lol:

The President should have the "power" over the people, while the Praetor runs the VP's and the five departments. Even so, the Praetor's duties will be filling in for VP's in the event of absenses and overseeing the VP's and the assembly, while the President's power will be working with the VP's and running the debates and what not that go on.

Ok...*takes breath*...comments?

bumpity

...and I hope this doesn't come down to "oh steel's just on a power trip"

believe me...there are so many other RL ways that are more fun :wink:

OOC: Oy, I should be filled with such rage right now. I did the exact same thing a few months ago, and nobody did a damn thing with it! What did I do wrong?

Well...while some people have it...others... :wink:

OOC: See, SB gets that I'm not serious. But Angelus just insults me. Meanie

Okay, new thought. Right now my government has collapsed and my nation is being torn apart (I mentioned that earlier), but once that's over I have a new Alliance planned. Is it okay if I get involved now OOC until I form that Alliance? Or should I just be patient and wait?

ooc: Oi vey, I just have to say that this is in no way connected to (as in run by) Sketch or the Order. At least that I'm aware of. I haven't exactly been active the past week.....personal issues..... Anyways, I think this is a good idea. But don't let that stand in the way of the rest of you buying into it ;)

<<OOC: Certain members of the UnAPS find that they do not entirely trust this idea as they believe it will infringe of sovereignity. What can we do to make sure that it doesn't become corrupted?>>

[ooc: I think I'll give it a shot. The Imperium isn't too likely to take notice of this until a meeting is actually called: with all the new alliances being formed all the time and the recent debacle with ICEP, we'll be wary of new organizations with an all-encompassing clientele.]

A question on the nature of the alliance, is it mostly OOC, as in "nation X is VP candidate for position Y," or roleplayed, as in "nation X's candidate for position Y is Mister Z, here's his picture and his checkered personal history?"

Also, where is the charter?

SB, since this is still in the early stages of planning/production, I don't believe a Charter has been written. Furthermore, until all of the kinks are banged out, or at least a fair amount of them, I think a charter would be detrimental to the idea as a whole.

Tag

Hmmmmm, would The UNSC be eligable, as we are a consortium to represent the UN in its speace issues?

As it stands, no. We want term limits for Praetor and direct election of VPs.

<<OOC: Certain members of the UnAPS find that they do not entirely trust this idea as they believe it will infringe of sovereignity. What can we do to make sure that it doesn't become corrupted?>>

Every alliance ever created infringes some on sovereignity, even pro-sovereign alliances like the Order. However, in this assembly, the effects will be minimal.

As for the possibility of corruption, I have two responses. First off, if it ever becomes corrupted, it is the fault of everyone involved. Leaving or striving for change would be two options to easily seperate your nation or alliance. Also, there will be parts of the charter put into place in order to try and curb corruption.

A question on the nature of the alliance, is it mostly OOC, as in "nation X is VP candidate for position Y," or roleplayed, as in "nation X's candidate for position Y is Mister Z, here's his picture and his checkered personal history?"

This will be IC, although parts of it of course will be OOC. However, the positions will be held by representatives, and reps will do the voting in place of the nation and everything.

Also, where is the charter?
SB, since this is still in the early stages of planning/production, I don't believe a Charter has been written. Furthermore, until all of the kinks are banged out, or at least a fair amount of them, I think a charter would be detrimental to the idea as a whole.

Angelus hit the nail on the head.

Hmmmmm, would The UNSC be eligable, as we are a consortium to represent the UN in its speace issues?

As long as the UNSC is an alliance...and it sounds like it is one...

As it stands, no. We want term limits for Praetor and direct election of VPs.

Direct election of VP's is still a possibility, and may be the first topic that the assembly votes on ICly once this gets started. However, the masses do not always make the best decision...so...

As for term limits for the Praetor, it's not going to happen. For IC reasons, my nation founded/will have founded this organization, will be funding it, and will be hosting it's location. They're not going to let it go...it's how my people are.

For OOC, and more realistic reasons, it's illogical for the Praetor to have term limits. Anyone who's ever an administrator for a message board knows how stupid it would be to switch administrators. It would be a mistake both OOCly and ICly, as too many things could go wrong. Also, I couldn't just still be admin and not be Praetor anymore, as it would in theory give me an advantage over members that in theory would be equal in rank. Term limits for Praetor would bring more possible corruption, not less.

Also, I'm still not sure about the amount of power the Praetor (me) will even have. The Praetor will be the OOC administrator of the boards, and the IC administrator of the VP's, just as the President will be the IC administrator of the representatives (but the pres will probably be a mod on the boards). From there on, the power of the Praetor is yet to be determined. There will be limits...I want people to join after all...

#tag#

We would settle for a procedure to recall the Praetor being included in the charter.

Perhaps, Feline, however that still only takes care of the IC matters, not the OOC ones like board administration.

bump 8)

bump 8)

Bump :?

Could be interesting..

Provided that the end product is satisfactory, Xanthal and its protectorates would be happy to join your organization. We may not be a formal alliance, but the relationship between Xanthal and its dependent states is much tighter than that of any alliance we've ever been a part of.

Provided that the end product is satisfactory, Xanthal and its protectorates would be happy to join your organization. We may not be a formal alliance, but the relationship between Xanthal and its dependent states is much tighter than that of any alliance we've ever been a part of.

You'd need to have two active reps though. I assume that you would fall under the leader catagory, but you'd need another actively RPing rep as well. You yourself cannot vote twice.

Provided that the end product is satisfactory, Xanthal and its protectorates would be happy to join your organization. We may not be a formal alliance, but the relationship between Xanthal and its dependent states is much tighter than that of any alliance we've ever been a part of.

You'd need to have two active reps though. I assume that you would fall under the leader catagory, but you'd need another actively RPing rep as well. You yourself cannot vote twice.

so...I'mguessing I'm the only APTO member interested? Figures

so...I'mguessing I'm the only APTO member interested? Figures

Perhaps you should inform them to visit this thread again

I'm pretty sure the GDA (the dead, choking corpse of the GA) would like to join, with me as the rep because I'm the only one there who can spell... I'll have to contact DGNT about it.

Please everyone, you must read. Each alliance will have two reps: the leader of the alliance and the other rep. Both must visit the (soon to be) boards and post often.

I knew that, I just didn't post intelligently enough. DGNT will be the other rep. He's a good solid RP'er. If of course he wants to join.

You'd need to have two active reps though. I assume that you would fall under the leader catagory, but you'd need another actively RPing rep as well. You yourself cannot vote twice.So I read. PSO Capital States would be the representative, since he has seniority. Hrintare only joined a few weeks ago.

bump...I wish some of the first posters would check back :lol:

Bring
Up
My
Post

I'm pretty sure the GDA (the dead, choking corpse of the GA) would like to join, with me as the rep because I'm the only one there who can spell... I'll have to contact DGNT about it.
Oi.... i can speel :P.... and since when were we affiliated with the GA...actually7...i can hardly remember teh GA...that died when i was bout 3 months old or so....
anyway... enouigh of my rambling...


the main problem i could see with this alliance of alliances is that it would probably get so choked with democracy that nothing would work. Alliance representitives would constantly be saying "i cant tell you until my alliance decides". Ad what happens if there is a war between alliances... waht does the rest of the alliance of alliances do...just sit there. and what about a war between member and nonmembver nations... does the big alliance assist in any way or is it just there to look impressive. if so how does this alliance of alliances benefit everyone in it. Excuse me if i missed somthing in the first post, but it seems that basicaly, there are alot of nations just saying 'hi friend' to each over every so often.

so anyway..if you cant be bothered reading all of the crap i just posted or it isnt grammatically correct in any way (which is quite likely) then the summary is:
- alliance of alliances would get choked with democracy and never get anything done
- what are the benefits? is it just analliancee to make everyone look stronger?

Also, I'm still not sure about the amount of power the Praetor (me) will even have. The Praetor will be the OOC administrator of the boards, and the IC administrator of the VP's, just as the President will be the IC administrator of the representatives (but the pres will probably be a mod on the boards). From there on, the power of the Praetor is yet to be determined. There will be limits...I want people to join after all...
I understand the OOC need for permanancy, but why does that extend into IC?
Praetor doesn't need to be in charge IC to be in charge OOC.

Please everyone, you must read. Each alliance will have two reps: the leader of the alliance and the other rep. Both must visit the (soon to be) boards and post often.What if the alliance has no single leader.

BUMP cause this is a cool idea.

so...I'mguessing I'm the only APTO member interested? Figures

Perhaps you should inform them to visit this thread again

I did, both me AND Crimmond. and no one even responded :?

Alliance representitives would constantly be saying "i cant tell you until my alliance decides".

That's solvable... make it representative democracy, where the elected alliance representatives choose how they vote, and if the nations in the alliance don't like the person's decisions they can always vote him or her out.

Please everyone, you must read. Each alliance will have two reps: the leader of the alliance and the other rep. Both must visit the (soon to be) boards and post often.What if the alliance has no single leader.

Then the alliance will just have two normal reps. The "leader" and the other rep have no difference in power, so it doesn't matter. The same thing goes if your alliance has more than one leader.

I understand the OOC need for permanancy, but why does that extend into IC?
Praetor doesn't need to be in charge IC to be in charge OOC.

There are pretty much two equally important reponses to that.

1. IC and OOC should go together in some places. How many NS alliances do you know of that the IC leader is not the OOC leader (founder of the region, administrator of the boards, etc.) as well? It makes sense, and doesn't put limits on what people say when speaking for the alliance, or in this case, group of alliances.

2. I'm not doing this out of the good of my heart. I'm saying that straight out. While to be fair, my power will be drastically limited, it's the fact that my name will be up there that will be beneficial to me, just as it will be beneficial to anyone who is voted president or VP. ICly, that's how the people of my nation would think. If they thought up the idea, founded it, and have it in their territory...they'd want a permanent piece of the "action". Hense that translates to OOC, in the fact that I made this thread, I thought up this whole scheme (regardless if it has been tried before) and even if my only IC job is filling in for VP's, keeping everyone happy, and speaking for the assembly...I want that job to be permanent...for as long as I stay with the assembly.

bump :?

bump :?

The APTO will join with me and I assume AO as reps.

Taggage, for me and to keep an eye on behalf of APTO. Crimmond and AO are the two ATPO delegates for this though.

bump...

and I'm thinking of a general time period for this to start...any suggestions?

hey all. 1st time I've actually been appointed something. (unless you count that 1st month of my existance where I created a region)

general time period? I really don't care. I'm busy with finalls all next month, but I'll get on when I can

hey all. 1st time I've actually been appointed something. (unless you count that 1st month of my existance where I created a region)

general time period? I really don't care. I'm busy with finalls all next month, but I'll get on when I can

bump

bump

so, what happened? Did this just die?

I might be able to get my alliance, the Polioris Alliance, to join.

That is, if this thing is still active.