NationStates Jolt Archive

<Public Transmission>
<FROM: Civillian Barge Tarsus>
<TO: Martian Duma>
We wish to call a meeting of the Duma on the subject of Planetary Engineering. Concerns over the shift of Mars' orbit seem to be making a greater splash than we had anticipated, and we would like a chance to explain to the inhabitants of the planet exactly what methods we plan to employ and their effects. If the Duma will allow it, we would also like to extend an invitation to other nations of the solar system to observe.
~The Board of Directors
<END>

<Reply:Civillian Barge Tarsus>

The High Dominion would like the opportunity to obseve these proceeding in order to main up to date knowledge of the happenings of Sol System.

RE: Planetary Engineering

While the rumored proposal interests us we have had some concerns passed onto us by the population of the nation. To address these concerns, and make sure everything is on the table, we are forwarding these questions to be placed on the agenda.

Who Decides?
Many people have indicated they like Martian orbit just the way it is and don't wish for it to be changed. Some of these sentients have called for a public referendum of the voting population of the planet as well as decisions by the few dictatorships. If Mars is to be moved it must be with the approval of it's people.

What if we don't like it?
Numerous suggestions have been made by those who do not want to take any risk. They feel that if this goes forward those who do it should arrange for their safe removal from the planets involved. Those that do not wish to take part should be given a way to leave at the cost of those attempting the project.

Risk versus Reward
The question amoung most people has been 'why?'. For some it is an idle question, while others want to know why attempting to move the planet would be cheaper than continuing solette activity or creating a new solette model.

We hope these questions are all placed on the agenda and the questions they raise are answered fully.

Menelmacar will attend this conference. We, too, hold all of these same concerns that Sunset has raised, though doubly so, as two Menelmacari worlds are apparently to be affected by this idea - with precisely zero consultation with the Menelmacari government or public.

~Lord Celebrimbor nos Fëanor
Prefect of Science
Eternal Noldorin Empire of Menelmacar

Despite our official exclusion from the Duma, obviously on the basis of size, we will send a representative for our interest in this proposal, based on just the same reasons as the Menelmacari.

http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/iimperium/Dragonav4.JPG

The Dragon (http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/iimperium/Dragonav3.jpg)
Supreme Commander of the Necron Fleet, Director of Operations in the Solar System and Chief-Lieutenant of Mephet'ran.

From: DA
To: Eniqcir
Subject: Solar Engineering

"Due to the ongoing occupation of the former Martian Confederacy (ADK Mars), as well as being a sol nation, an observeror two will... watch."

~ Mr. Morden

[code:1:ed25994046]-begin transmission-
Source: Solanna City, Kajal Mars
Destination: Eniqcir
Subject: Solar Engineering

We will attend this conference as well. Perhaps it can convince the government not to enact legal action, but the fact remains that we were not contacted about the plans to move Mars either.

- Dr. Meja Denali
- Director of Science
- Duchy of Kajal Mars[/code:1:ed25994046]

<Public Transmission>
<FROM: Civillian Barge Tarsus>
This general reaction of insult at not being consulted is truly baffling. What do you think we're doing? It's not as if we've already moved the planets, we're just setting up the equipment, so to speak. You expect us to go to every single one of you individually and in private? How incredibly inefficient! Public networks get the word out much easier. Expect us at the Duma within six hours.
~The Board of Directors
<END>

Near the end of said six hours, a WaveRider-style spaceplane emblazoned with the image of Chiron screamed through the Martian air over Mare Hellas, finally slowing down and landing at the Duma.

Inside one of the many conference rooms, a CMC representative was soon setting about getting hsi presentation prepared, mumbling notes to himself. As other delegates filed in, he stood up straight, hands behind his back, facing the assembly.

"Right then. I have some questions already from Sunset, shall I begin there?"

Lord Celebrimbor nos Fëanor, grandson of the Elentári and chief scientist and artificer of the Elves, made his way into the Duma chamber. He fixed the corporate representative with a steely gaze as he took his seat, setting datapads and other equipment out on the table in front of him.

~Lord Celebrimbor nos Fëanor
Prefect of Science
Eternal Noldorin Empire of Menelmacar

"Right then. I have some questions already from Sunset, shall I begin there?"


The three senators from Sunset (Daniels, Lopez, and Mejia) along with Admiral Wick from MIDAS-II had arrived earlier and were ready to begin.

Daniels rose - he was the head of the Senate trade division - and answered the question. "If you would, please..."

Taraskovyan Department for Foreign Affairs statement on the Mars discussions.

Due to the presence of Grand Ducal assets on the surface of planet Mars, the Grand Duchy will dispatch a team of observers to monitor the talks.
The team will comprise the Appointed Governor of the Fiefdom of Svarog, Leib-Duke Miloslav Karadzic and the TDFA Special Attache to Martian Affairs, Duke Gennady Voinov.

Thank you for your attention.

Natalya arrived just in time. She was a bit unused to the area, with DA not being a Duma member, but... well, she found her way, and stayed silent, in the background, just... watching.

Natalya arrived just in time. She was a bit unused to the area, with DA not being a Duma member, but... well, she found her way, and stayed silent, in the background, just... watching.

Karadzic and Voinov took their seats next to the allied delegate. Their task during the entire debate would be to observe. Unless given new orders, that is...

"Very well. Let us begin."

"Issue number one: Who Decides? Well, the answer to that is obvious. Not the general populace, that's who. We all know that your average man on the street is a complete idiot when it comes to scientific and engineering matters, and the amount of flagrant misinformation and fear-mongering being passed around just goes to prove the point. Of course, we agree that the approval of the inhabitants is at the very least far more convenient, and the governments of Mars should be respected. In the end, though, what matters isn't what most people want, it's what the people with the most power want, and no matter what anybody else decides, given the general reaction, it will probably ultimately be the balance of military power that makes the decision."

"If we can manage to eliminate the current level of irrationality, then the coalition will be prepared to discuss something more civilized."

"Issue number two: What if we don't like it? Well, considering the amount of risk involved, you are, quite simply, a loon if that is the reason. If you don't care about the risk, we'd like to know what you do care about, so that we can address specific problems, rather than vague emotions. In any case, we are quite willing to provide alternate living space, or simply transport to another location, and I will come to that a bit later."

"Issue number three: Risk versus Reward, or 'Why?' There are two reasons, both of which involve profit margin. First, and most important, is that Mars cannot survive for any large period of time without the solette. You have a single point of failure for your entire planet. The Guilds gain very little from keeping it going. I speak from experience when I say that the primary reason for putting it up to begin with was simple amusement at their skill, with a few extra trade benefits thrown in as a nice aside. To speak frankly, I can't see why any right-minded person is willing to take that risk. Though it may be more expensive immediately, it will save uncountable resources in the long run that would no longer have to be spent on mirror maintenance, station keeping fuel, crew rotation, etc. and, in addition, the planet will be recieving enough solar energy to sustain itself indefinitely. It is the only way to enact a complete terraformation."

"Reason number two is purely economic, and to your benefit as well as ours. With distances between the planets reduced, average delta-v and fuel, or just energy in the case of reactionless engines, requirements will go down, travel times will go down, and communication delays will be reduced. All of these will reduce overhead and increase profit margins for any and everyone doing interplanetary business."

The representative paused to take a breath.
"Now, before we have any more questions, there is an issue I have been instructed to ask you about. Specifically, what is the general opinion of DarkSith's Thanatos project, which will undoubtably have far more immediate, dramatic, and arguably dangerous effects on the planet?"

(OOC: Ahem. It is beginning to appear that my internet access may be sporadic for the next five days. I'll try to get as much in as possible tonight, but we might have to pause a bit after that.)

He was simply know as Murf to those who knew him, and very few did. His given name was Murphy S. Lawson, though, and he was seated in the Duma chamber, representing the Federation of Sentient Peoples at the talks.

Except...

The Federation was not a signatory of the Mangalan Accords, and as such, not a Duma member. So he would not speak unless spoken to.

But he believed the Eniqcir representative was correct. It would come down to a balance of military force. And he hoped the Federation would be ready in time.

ooc: my observer, who's been observing in the Duma for some time completely unnoticed so far, still is.

"Very well. Let us begin."

"Issue number one: Who Decides? Well, the answer to that is obvious. Not the general populace, that's who. We all know that your average man on the street is a complete idiot when it comes to scientific and engineering matters, and the amount of flagrant misinformation and fear-mongering being passed around just goes to prove the point. Of course, we agree that the approval of the inhabitants is at the very least far more convenient, and the governments of Mars should be respected. In the end, though, what matters isn't what most people want, it's what the people with the most power want, and no matter what anybody else decides, given the general reaction, it will probably ultimately be the balance of military power that makes the decision."

"If we can manage to eliminate the current level of irrationality, then the coalition will be prepared to discuss something more civilized."

"Issue number two: What if we don't like it? Well, considering the amount of risk involved, you are, quite simply, a loon if that is the reason. If you don't care about the risk, we'd like to know what you do care about, so that we can address specific problems, rather than vague emotions. In any case, we are quite willing to provide alternate living space, or simply transport to another location, and I will come to that a bit later."

"Issue number three: Risk versus Reward, or 'Why?' There are two reasons, both of which involve profit margin. First, and most important, is that Mars cannot survive for any large period of time without the solette. You have a single point of failure for your entire planet. The Guilds gain very little from keeping it going. I speak from experience when I say that the primary reason for putting it up to begin with was simple amusement at their skill, with a few extra trade benefits thrown in as a nice aside. To speak frankly, I can't see why any right-minded person is willing to take that risk. Though it may be more expensive immediately, it will save uncountable resources in the long run that would no longer have to be spent on mirror maintenance, station keeping fuel, crew rotation, etc. and, in addition, the planet will be recieving enough solar energy to sustain itself indefinitely. It is the only way to enact a complete terraformation."

"Reason number two is purely economic, and to your benefit as well as ours. With distances between the planets reduced, average delta-v and fuel, or just energy in the case of reactionless engines, requirements will go down, travel times will go down, and communication delays will be reduced. All of these will reduce overhead and increase profit margins for any and everyone doing interplanetary business."

The representative paused to take a breath.
"Now, before we have any more questions, there is an issue I have been instructed to ask you about. Specifically, what is the general opinion of DarkSith's Thanatos project, which will undoubtably have far more immediate, dramatic, and arguably dangerous effects on the planet?"

(OOC: Ahem. It is beginning to appear that my internet access may be sporadic for the next five days. I'll try to get as much in as possible tonight, but we might have to pause a bit after that.)
Celebrimbor stood up. "What of testing? You say you have moved some asteroids around by this method, but a planet is quite another matter entirely, comprising quadrillions or quintillions of times the mass, gravitational strength, and kinetic energy. You have not tested this method to anything approaching satisfaction, have you? Could you not alter the orbit of an uninhabited world far from Sol before you would put countless trillions of lives at risk? A few asteroids is nothing, and to suggest that using this method to change an asteroid's orbit is adequate testing before attempting it on an inhabited star system - one which comprises the home system of several sentient species, at that - is simply lunacy. It is analagous to imagining that my people went directly from small wooden triremes to kilometer-long gravships in a single step. The scales involved are utterly, vastly different, and the simple fact is that really, you have absolutely no idea what you're doing.

"Second, you claim the solette is a drain on your resources, so it's more profitable for you to simply move the planets. Very well, this is a valid concern, and I sympathize. So sell the solette. Let someone else take up the burden, now that keeping billions from freezing to death is too inconvenient for you. I can make you an offer on it, right now, if you like; I can write a cheque right here at this table. The Eternal Noldorin Empire's resources are vast, and we would be pleased to take up the reins of a program you evidently can no longer support. You get a quick infusion of cash, you unload an over-expensive asset, you free up the massive resources required for this project (which you seem to have amassed well enough despite being hobbled by the apparently crippling expense of solette maintenance) and nobody has to suffer a horrible and untimely demise. Everybody wins.

"Thirdly, there is the matter of evacuation. Where exactly to? Assuming this goes ahead, there are probably fifty billion people between Mars and Venus. Where exactly do you intend to put them? Earth? This plan puts Earth in just as much danger as Mars and Venus, and it's overcrowded already. Titan? There's no space. Anywhere else in system doesn't have the infrastructure to support so many people, and moving that many people outsystem would be so time-consuming and expensive as to be unfeasible, assuming you could even find a suitable world. For that matter, how[i] are you going to move them? If even ten percent of the population wants to opt out, that's five billion people... how do you intend to move five billion people?

"Fourthly, you seem to think that the unwashed masses are simply too stupid and impressionable to know what's good for them. Many a horrific atrocity or horrible mistake has been perpetrated on the basis that 'people just don't know what's good for them'. Who [i]does know what's good for them? You? Who died and made you the Valar? Apparently, you seem also to think yourselves above the governments who rule these two worlds, because you did not apparently see fit to even inform them ahead of time. We had to catch it on the news. I will be absolutely clear: you are not above the law. Almost every developed nation requires permits to so much as put an extra room on the back of a house -- and you think you can move two entire planets without asking anyone first if it's okay? I'm afraid that things simply don't work that way, and they're not about to start on your account. The people with the most power will have their way -- but it seems it has yet to dawn on you that you are not them.

"Finally, I want to address the matter of Colony Vessel S-14. For those of you who are unaware, S-14 is a five-hundred-eighty-kilometer multi-generational colony ship built and crewed by an entire species of what could best be described as sentient ants. They are in the midst of a four-century orbital insertion maneuver to Eärendil, the world most of you know as Venus. They have expended the last of their resources to make planetfall, and we Menelmacari have graciously set aside a place for them to live upon the surface. Now, understand this. Approximately one hundred years from now they expect the planet to be in a particular place. They cannot make further course corrections. Venus must be where they expect it to be when they arrive; if S-14 reaches orbit and Eärendil is not there, they will all die. What it comes down to is that untold billions will meet their end if you go ahead with this plan, whether it ends in perfect success or miserable failure. But I suppose it's more important to you for TransCorp to be able to turn its freighters around a little more often four centuries from now, yes?

"Now, let me make something abundantly clear, clear as Meriliaundhrim glass: you are right about one and only one thing. It will come down to balance of military power, if some serious reforms are not made to this entire process.

"1. Adequate testing must be completed, including full-scale trials in an uninhabited star system. It is even preferable that several such trials be carried out. It is my understanding that several nations are in fact looking over their exploration logs and star maps to find a suitable system with which to provide you for this purpose. I cannot overstate the importance of this. It is simply not enough to 'feel up to the task' of altering the orbits of two inhabited worlds on either side of a third. It's not enough for the numbers to just sorta look like they add up. It's not enough even for your computers to tell you you're right. You have to be absolutely, completely, 110% seen-it-with-your-own-eyes certain this can be done safely. And so do we.

"2. There must be full consultation with the governments and citizenry of each and every affected nation. Like it or not, these planets are not your private property to move about as you see fit. They are the sovereign territory of countless nations and the homes of countless billions. Nobody contracted you for this project, nobody requested your 'services'. You simply have no right, any more than you would have the right to demolish homes to build a factory where they stood, without first purchasing the homes from their owners, consulting with other local residents, and obtaining regulatory approval from the government.

"These requirements are not optional; we will not budge on them. If they are not met, I can guarantee that the Menelmacari Imperial Defense Force stands between you and implementation, and they will deal with the matter as they would deal with invaders, pirates, and terrorists. You have been warned, and you bear full responsibility for what happens if you continue to be belligerent. These worlds are ours - they belong to Menelmacar and everyone else here, and their peoples. Not you. We will defend them. Move forward on your current path at your peril."

With that, the Elf sat down.

~Lord Celebrimbor nos Fëanor
Prefect of Science
Eternal Noldorin Empire of Menelmacar

Fernando clapped. "Look, and I said that others would make the obvious point."

The head of Heinrid Abadas nodded slowly, his gaze fixed on the screen before them of the Duma. "Yes. Although you did not predict that it would be elves that made it."

Fernando, skilled in the fine and rare art of conversing with the Lord President, waved one of his expressive hands dismissively. "We've already discussed that problem, Lord President."

"Yes," came the reply, in a tone that suggested it was time to continue listening to the live recording. "We have, haven't we..."

As Celebrimbor speaks, the Cetaganda delegation arrives, along with several large insects. Coming forward immeadiately after the elf, the Lord Alton, the delegation's leader, begins to speak. "I appologize for my lateness, but my vessel had to stop to pick up some friends who needed a ride: namely, the representatives of the Alpha colonization ship, who's inhabitants will be greatly affected by your plans."

"Now, to business: I agree whole-heartedly with Lord Celebrimbor. Your actions would endanger trillions, and for what purpose? To save small amount of money? Furthermore, your method of proposing this project is insulting, to say the least. Rather than approach those who would be involved, we heard from the news agencies of what you were doing. Such a breach of manners is appalling."

"Simulations and tests aside, I can say one thing: that no matter what, Cetaganda will not allow this project to go forward unless you can address the concerns of all involved, including those on the S-14 vessel. If it means using military force to defend both our friends and any others who would be harmed, well, the Cetagandan Space Service stands ready to fight alongside our allies."

With that, Lord Alton steps back.

Being deeply interested in such matters as planetary engineering, we would like to send a representative to this meeting, who will bring plans for the "Hercule" large object propulsion system.

"Testing, ah, yes. You have a misconception, there. We have moved asteroids, yes, quite a bit. But more importantly, we have moved a number of Centaurs, and as of yet have managed to assemble a completely artificial planetoid a considerable percentage of the size of Pluto. And while we ourselves have not yet moved an entire terrestrial world, we are not without reference. I direct you to the case of PSR 1257+12a through c. Each planet has a total mass several times larger than Earth, and the entire system was arranged into a Klemperer Rosette using these methods. We do know what we're doing."

"As for the solette- it isn't a drain on our resources at all. It's a drain on the Guilds. We helped build it, sure, but it's owned and operated by the Spacers. If you want to buy it, ask them."

"On the matter of evacuation, I wonder where DarkSith plans to send the people opposed to their plan. There certainly must be a few, as the surface effects on Mars would be orders of magnitude greater. As it happens, we may not be able to transport five billion, but assuming an average radius for the transfer bodies of 100 kilometers, which is actually a low estimate, gives us a total volume for each body of 4,188,790 cubic kilometers. If we assume that one eighth of that volume can be dug out for habitation, again, based on experience that is a low estimate, spread out over half a dozen bodies that gives us 3,141,593 cubic kilometers of living space. Assuming that each person is allowed ten cubic meters of space, which is obscenely high, we still have the capacity to house three-hundred fourteen trillion one-hundred fifty-nine billion two-hundred sixty-five million three-hundred fifty-eight thousand nine-hundred and eighty individuals. Far in excess of what is necessary. If we really do have to transport all of those people, we can vastly increase the flow rate by contracting out drop cables for mass transport to orbit during the first pass, picking up perhaps five hundred million during each wave."

"Now, on to your next point- I am surprised that an elf would stoop so low as to use the 'you remind me of Hitler' defense. Many a horrific atrocity or horrible mistake has been perpetrated by a large mass of semi-informed people, as well. We don't propose to completely ignore the citizenry- we just ask that everyone here make their policy decisions based on facts, not the emotions of an uninformed public."
"Once again, we will reiterate the point: we are informing you ahead of time. You are here, in this room, being informed, precisely because we didn't think it right to start moving planets without telling anybody. The fact that you're hearing about it and debating it all at once rather than privately and separately should have no impact. As for power... he who has the biggest guns makes the rules. I suggest you all review the past status reports on the Centaur Project."

"And finally, yes, there is the matter of S-14. We certainly don't intend to leave them hanging, as it were. We are wll aware of their position and trajectory, and we have several plans to make up for it. What they are you don't need to know, suffice to say that if we are unable to successfully contact the Ants and come to an agreement, the Venerian half of the project will be delayed for an appropriate interval."

"Let's look back at your requirements now, shall we?"
"1. Adequate testing must be completed, including full-scale trials in an uninhabited star system. As I said, it has been done, with twice as many worlds and far more mass. We aren't relying solely on abstractions."

"2. There must be full consultation with the governments and citizenry of each and every affected nation. Well, here we are. If they don't show up, it's their own darn fault. Still, in the spirit of cooperation, we will be contacting those who are for some reason unable to attend to ensure that they are given equal voice. I shall simply ignore your following analogy, given that it is a horribly inaccurate one. I am glad that you won't budge- we'd be rather scared if you did. Fortunately, you shouldn't have to anyway. But, just one more thing: we may not control the Martian Solette, but we do run the vast majority of volatile transfer operations. Should any one of you assembled nations attempt acts of violence against the coalition, remember that we can fairly easily destroy your atmosphere by simple inaction. I sincerely hope that it doesn't come to that."

"Who cares if it's been done before? You haven't done it. Calling someone else's work an adequate frame of reference is like a Neanderthal pointing to a Menelmacari gravship and going, 'Look at that! We can build one of those right now!' It just doesn't wash. As for this:"

Should any one of you assembled nations attempt acts of violence against the coalition, remember that we can fairly easily destroy your atmosphere by simple inaction.

"That you would even threaten such a thing has convinced me of the evil that lurks within you. Menelmacar will not support this project. We do not take threats, nor do we negotiate with terrorists. Without a serious change in your tune, you will face our fleets if you move forward. Go on, follow through on your threat - you doom only yourselves, as the combined wrath of all civilization will fall in upon you."

~Lord Celebrimbor nos Fëanor
Prefect of Science
Eternal Noldorin Empire of Menelmacar

The LRR delegate at the conference laughs a bit at the Menelmacar science prefect's analogy.

He raises his metal arm in order to draw attention from the Eniqcir conference-giver.

"Who cares if it's been done before? You haven't done it. Calling someone else's work an adequate frame of reference is like a Neanderthal pointing to a Menelmacari gravship and going, 'Look at that! We can build one of those right now!' It just doesn't wash.
"Perhaps. But to use your own anaolgy, if the Neanderthal were to contact Menelmacari scientists and engineers, arrange to be taught, trade for suitable facilities and trained workers, then they could build it."

"That you would even threaten such a thing has convinced me of the evil that lurks within you. Menelmacar will not support this project. We do not take threats, nor do we negotiate with terrorists. Without a serious change in your tune, you will face our fleets if you move forward. Go on, follow through on your threat - you doom only yourselves, as the combined wrath of all civilization will fall in upon you."
"Must I remind you that it was you, not we, who made the first threat of violence? We wish only to protect our interests, and if doing so means complying with your request to cease all shipping to Mars and Venus, that will be the result. As I said, it will be inaction that causes the damage, inaction by your request. That you did not bother to consider the consequences of your threats has convinced me of the blind luditism that lurks within you. CMC will not support your whims. We do not take threats, nor do we negotiate with anyone unwilling to put aside emotion and look at the facts with an unbiased eye. As I also said, if we can eliminate this irrationality, then we may discuss more civilized things in a more civilized manner. I have yet to raise my voice, or make a single unwarranted threat. The same can not be said for everyone. Put aside your own threats, lay down your fear and hate, we will do the same, and then we can get down to a productive discussion."

"Excuse me, honorable chairman (or whatever his title is currently), I think you may be interested in a certain propulsion system currently under development in my country that could provide a way to move mars. Perhaps you would like to see it?"

"Very well then," Celebrimbor replied with a shrug. "We request that you cease this project until you can show to Menelmacar and all other affected nations that you can accomplish it, with absolute safety. Because that would be the easiest way for you to protect your interests. As I have stated. It's really very simple to understand. We have certain requirements that need to be met before this can go forward, before it gets regulatory approval from the Menelmacari government. You have yet to meet them."

~Lord Celebrimbor nos Fëanor
Prefect of Science
Eternal Noldorin Empire of Menelmacar

OOC: LRR... they already have a method of doing it, they've just annoyed a lot of people by not consulting anyone, that's all.

((OOC: Miserably wretched whore-forum‼ I apologise for my absence.))

Sereltan’s species was probably a mystery to everyone in the room, unless the Yvressi were there, not that they’d care. He was dark-skinned, about six foot three, somewhat thin, fragile looking perhaps, dressed in long shimmering red and gold robes elaborately decorated with that were warm to the touch. He sat quietly and listened to the conversation go back and forth.

He of course didn’t much care about moving Venus, its current orbit was quite comfortable for him, moving it out would just make it cold as far as he was concerned. He idly drummed his fingers on the table in front of him, and muttered quietly about distaste of some of the attendees.

"Let's review the facts:

"Certain parties wish to change the orbits of two entire planets, Mars and Venus, such that Mars no longer orbits as far out, and Venus as far in. They are planning to shift the very solar system so that they can make Earth-Mars trade easier (and Mars-Asteroid Belt/Gas Giant trade harder), energywise.

"They have not made a concerted effort to contact all the governments of Mars and Venus, instead blaming them for not showing up to a public showcase.

"They do not appear to intend to take this 'consultation' very seriously. It is our belief that they will attempt to do this regardless of whether there is a consensus in favor of their actions.

"These parties do not own all or even a majority of either planets involved.

"It is recognized in international law that a sovereign nation is the sole governing body of the land and people under it's control. For an external party to attempt to make these decisions without the expressed permission of the nation(s) in question is therefore an illegal act.

"The new locations of planets as described so far would benefit relatively few-- namely the parties who intend to move them.

"If these planets are moved without consent of all nations involved-- particularly those with military assets on and near Mars-- it would be nothing less than an act of war. Or perhaps the parties involved think it equally reasonable for us to move their continents around beneath their feet? Perhaps there is nothing wrong in believing we can manipulate the locations of their military bases, cities and government like puppets on a string, since these parties so willingly intend manipulate entire planets, and all bases cities and governments thereof?

"To summarize, the only way for any external party to move, without CoFedCo permission, our holdings on Mars, will be to wage a war of an aggression. This will not be "inaction." They will have to take action, just as they have already taken action in their presumptious announcements. Unfortunately, there is no foreseeable way that our policy on this matter will ever shift based on the given facts. Equally unfortunately, we will defend against any attempt to move Mars just as surely as we would defend against an attempt to pick up New State City and plunk it in the ocean. If these parties doubt either our resolve or ability to defend against such attacks with effective vigor, they are making a critical error in judgement.

"Lastly, it is a shame that certain parties have so willingly labeled the opposition as 'fear-mongers,' threatened to "ruin atmospheres" with "inaction," and been so quick to jeopardize friendly, beneficial relationships between Santa Barbara and themselves. However, that is their own foolish decision to make-- unlike that of moving Mars."

The Voice of the Council himself was present at this meeting, and he quickly laid out the Imperial Council's position.

"This proposal is unaceptable. We have great faith that the corporations involved would be able to make it work, eventually, but that is not our point."

"Simply put, we do not wish to see Mars moved. We don't care what profit or other long term benefits exist if such a move is undertaken. We remind all antions who are members of the Duma of the preamble of the Mangalan Accords, which includes a committment to "Respect for the Planet's Primal Heritage." Moving Mars does not show that kind of respect."

"There are religious, aesthetic, and ethical factors to consider along with the practical ones here. Mars has been in this orbit for billions of years, and we like it as it is. Mangala is perfectly capable of dealing with the results of a hypothetical loss of the soletta. Indeed, we could build another one if we so chose."

"The Mangalan Defense Force will act to prevent any attempts to alter the orbit of Mars, unless halted by a binding decision from the Duma (which would require a 3/4 majority among the delegates)."

There was another C’tan representative at the meeting, and she was not quite so quiet. Eventually she stood up, and glared at the CMC representative, “One question for you. Has it occurred to you that there are some here who do not wish the affected planets moved?

We like both Mars and Venus quite well in their current orbits, and we are certain that many others are content with said orbits also, never mind the risks of you succeeding in messing up your little endeavour in some spectacularly catastrophic way. Which I for one suspect that you will,” she’d not exactly been chosen for being a subtle woman, and here she was being deliberately blunt.

“So, to conclude, your plan cannot go ahead at this time due to the needs of S-14, and frankly, is, in our opinion at least, a waste of time whose only true purpose is to enhance your prestige.”

She sat down again, flicking her hair back with a toss of her head, and continued to give the CMC representative a look of pure, distilled contempt.

http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/iimperium/neja.JPG

Samara Neja
Vicereigne of the former Melkorian Territory of Sentinel Two.

Senator Mejia, a thick woman in her late 50's, chose that moment to speak.

"Thus far I don't think any of us are particularly impressed with what we are seeing. Insulting the intelligence of a top 2% population is not the best way to appeal to the people of Sunset - who will be making this decision, I assure you. Furthermore referencing a project that I have not heard of without referencing materials is also not the best way to get my personal support."

Senator Lopez interjected as well - "Nor mine. At this point I will be returning to the full senate and recommending this project not proceed."

Daniels spoke last. "I would remind you of one important and apparently overlooked fact. The Sunset government has in the past made years contributions to the terraforming effort - trillions of contributions. I would also note that our nation does not *need* these efforts either. We want to bring them about for all of Mars, but we could certainly cut these payments and shift them to another corporation. I would imagine the corporations that depend on these payments would need to make some staffing cuts if that were done..."

His last statement was an obvious and pointed threat. The presenter had all the tact of a sledgehammer and this kind of presentation required the tact of a thousand year old diplomat.

The representative stroked his chin. "Interesting. People passing judgement before I've even finished explaining the plan, very interesting. Well, your loss. Continuing on, then."

"Lord Fëanor, I rather like the new sound of your requests. We'll do our best to make everyone involved satisfied."

"On the points of the Santa Barbaran delegation: Mars-Belt and Mars/Gas Giant trade will remain mostly unnaffected, with the exception that launch windows will occur more frequently. The reason is rather simple- the capacity of the Gas Giants' enormous gravitational fields to absorb delta-v makes the slight change in orbital velocity negligible. The Asteroid Belt, on the other hand, already requires such huge amounts of delta-v, due to its lack of a large gravitational field, that the differences are again negligible."

"For our concerted effort- we haven't yet, becuase it's just now been announced. As I said, everyone involved will be heard. It just might take a while. You claim that we won't take this consultation seriosuly, but on what evidence do you base that claim? We take this very seriously. If we don't we risk alienating a huge consumer base, which is a very bad thing."

"As for the legality of the matter- anybody can make any decision they want, and it won't matter one bit. There's no law against making up ones mind. What would be illegal is if we actually started moving planets around, which we haven't- save for the ones that we actually do own."

"Next, some clarification is evidently in order- it is impossible for you to move our military bases, cities, or government, as we have none. We are a corporation, not a nation."

"Ahem. Next, replying to Mangala. Not much to say here, except that I'm much more impressed with you than most. Finally we're getting some constructive feedback. Just a minor point about preserving the primal state of the planet, the current text of the Accords states that the primal state of Mars shall not be altered except," with special emphasis on the excpetion, "as part of a terraforming program dedicated to making the surface of the planet survivable primarily by humans, which this is."

"Next... the C'tan. Hm. I don't think it needs to occur to me, everybody else has made it quite clear already. You're entire argument appears to consist of 'what about S-14', all that filler aside, which is a moot point. As I have already said, we are quite aware of the S-14 problem, and the project will not go forth until it is resolved with the inhabitants of S-14. Anyone else is not qualified to discuss their fate. And here we come to prestige again. I must ask- what point is there to that? Fame is, frankly, annoying, and we have quite enough as we need from the construction of planet Centaur."

"Finally, we come to Sunset. Excuse me for leaving you in the dark, but I had assumed that further references would not be needed, if you are referring to the case of PSR1257+12. The whole thing is rather obvious and readily available. Jovian orbit, sixty degrees ahead of Ganymede, large black sphere. A quick hop through the Gate, and you can see the whole thing for yourself. Lastly, this bit about cutting off payments- if it's intended as a threat, I'm afraid it will be rather ineffective. If we have ever recieved funds from you, it's been indirectly through Eniqcir or the Guilds. The vast majority of our profit comes from the sale of dry-ice, hydroflouric acid, flourosulphuric acid, and hydroflourocarbons. Even if we were recieving money direct, cutting it off wouldn't mean layoffs- it would mean the cessation of services. We don't put all of our eggs in one basket, so to speak."

"Now that that's all done with, moving on to the next item on my agenda- tidal effects. Many people have expressed concern that ay, something will crash, and bee, the tides will be horrendous and drown everybody. I can say quite confidently that that is not the case. The preliminary figures, which will be fine-tuned later, place the closest approach for a lower-limit transfer body, that is an iceball off 100 kilometers radius, to either planet at three-hundred sixty-three thousand kilometers. At that distance, the total tidal force felt by Venus would be 8.341 times ten to the negative eighth meters per second squared, and the tidal force felt by Mars would be 4.62997 times ten to the negative eighth meters per second squared. For comparison, the tidal force of Selene on Earth is 1.34272 times ten to the negative sixth meters per second squared. For Venus, that works out to about 3.5%, and for Mars 6%, of Earth tides, an force so small that no normal citizen would notice it, and it would only happen a few times per year, as opposed to twice a day. Any more comments?"

"I would note that the primary concern is not with Mars or Venus - it is with Earth. How will this project interfer with the tidal cycle of a planet with a population in the trillions? Much of it, I might add, woofully underprepared for such an event."

"Regarding your 'clarification,' which incidentally fails to address the issue, as for moving your cities, government and military bases-- you may be a corporation, but no one here is convinced that that means you have nothing to lose. You have assets. You have locations. You have buildings and land. You have employees. And, presumably, as Eniqciri, you do have a military branch of the government, and you are familiar with the concept of cities as well? Is your position that because you are a corporation, you would not object to our moving these things? How about the Eniqciri government, for that matter, or do you not have one of those either?

"And yes, so you say, Mars and asteroid/Gas Giant trade would be mostly unaffected. Do you know how many billions that mostly could cost? Cost us, that is. Naturally, this plan of yours will mostly benefit your trade, so naturally you assume we have no problem adding on delta V time if it's such a mostly minor event. Just like, as you said, moving these planets around would be mostly illegal, and Santa Barbara would, as previously mentioned but sublimely ignored, mostly treat it as an attack upon our sovereignty. I hope I'm not being too subtle.

"Since you agree that moving these planets around would be illegal, then we have no more to add here. The CoFedCo will not support or tolerate criminal actions."

"The tidal cycle of the Earth will not be affected at all. No transfer body will ever come anywhere near Earth. There is simply no need for it. The distances between planets will also remain large enough that the only time there would be any measurable effect on Earth's tides is when all three planets are lined up- which, incidentally, is already the case, and will only happen every few million years."

"Back to Santa Barbara- we couldn't care less what you do to Eniqciri properties- that's for the government to worry about. Nearly all of our assets are and always have been space-based. I can't speak for Oren Moore, but the CMC owns a total of two land-based installations. As for your second point, I would be happy to discuss all of the implications, including specific delta-v changes and the associated costs, just as soon as you remove your mocking tone and indicate that you really do take this just as seriously as you seem to think that we don't."

A man of elderly stature but youthful skin and vitality walked quickly through the rows of raging delegates and hops easily onto the stage. A few soft words may be heard by those in front of the large room as he quickly talks to the CB Tarsus speaker. Thanks for covering our part so long, sorry I'm late. Ms. Wang was gracious enough to let me borrow her solar yacht, and I had a devil of a time finding someone she trusted to fly it.

The silver-white haired man faced the crowd, continuing to converse quietly with the CBT speaker until the threats of military action gave way to demands that the two on stage speak up again. You see, the man said in a nearly inaudiable tone to the CBT tech, you have to play the crowd. Had I spoken up earlier, no one would have been quiet. Now they are demanding answers.

After a short while, he stood and held out his hands, gesturing a sort of OK, OK, calm down and I'll give in! When a silence not heard since before the diplomats, scientists, buisnessmen, activists, and other observers entered the Duma, the man finally spoke up.

http://members.cox.net/davage/images/DavidWestSmall.jpg

"For those of you who have not yet recognized me, I am David West, lead project manager for TransCorp. I appologize for being tardy, it could not be helped." Then West's voice grew stronger as he launched into his speaking.

"Most of us here are demanding answers, evidence, reassurances, or even the immediate stop of this project...and rightly so!" West enjoyed the look of shock off a few of the faces in the room. "In the word of a friend, the proposal to move entire planets is epic, and I'd question your intelligence and education if you did not immediately question it. But enough brown-nosing." Mr. West smiled at his own joke, hoping to get at least a few chuckles.

After a moment's pause, his voice changed again...this time it was somewhat more solemn.

"I listened to the network feed of this meeting on the flight in and I thought to myself, What a mess. We organisers of this meeting didn't do too well in organizing. Let me try an add some.

"The purpose of this meeting is for the initiating corporations to answer your concerns so the project might go on. And most of the actual questions that have come up until now belong to a few categories. How? Why? Soverignty. And safety.

"We'll get to all of these, but I want to spend some time on safety. I believe we can solve a lot of our problems in the other areas if we first show you this project is safe.

"Before we begin, are there any objections so 'safety first'?"

Thank Kronos you're here, these people are unmovable! Crazy politicians....
Yeah, diplomacy, bah. A simple statement of facts is enough for a peer review board....
I see. Well, you'll do this much better than I've been, I suppose. Have at 'em. I'll just keep quietly flipping the slides.
A step back in deference, and the stage was West's.

(OOC: Another one that is late. :oops: Ahem. Besides, Darth Applebius, Minister for Alien Affairs and Permanent DSMC Representative before the Duma, is just trying to be as inconspicuous as a robed man can be. We are reluctant to discuss Thanatos.)

"Good." West finally spoke up, "I'll take that as agreement that our primary concern is safety. So lets jump in.

"Most of us have centuries of experiance navigating ships and satelites around planets, some of us more." West nodded towards the Menelmacari and a few alien delegates. "I think we all understand that the chance of an impact is zero.

"The primary concern expressed so far is the effects of gravity, particularly on tides. So let me run some numbers by you.

"Assume the largest planetoids in the project are medium-large KBOs. Lets say 100 kilometers in diameter, and massing about 8.38e18 kilograms. If their closest approach to Mars was about the orbital distance of Phobos, then they would have a fifth the gravitational influence on Mars that Luna has on Earth. You can translate that to a 5th the tidal influence. Mars has a lower gravity then Earth, so the tides would be about two fifths of Earths...except for one thing.

"The objects aren't meant to become a Martian moon, so they will never get that close to Mars. Also because of this, they won't be near Mars long enough to cause a tide. The effects of flybys by these most massive of objects use will be effectively zero...except to slightly reduce the distance of Mars' orbit.

"Venus has a higher gravity, flybys will be at a greater distance, and effects on tides and waves will not even be measurable."

David West paused for a moment, his next point was important. "The gravity from the largest KBOs will be noticable on one thing only, satelites. Satelites orbit in vacuum, don't deal with the friction in atmospheres and hydrospheres, and so are more succeptable to small changes in gravity. Satelite orbits WILL be affected by passing KBOs.

"However, the force involved will be so small that the station-keeping thrusters common to satelites of all nations advanced enough to put them into orbit will have no problem compensating."

West let that sink in a moment...he hoped that his bringing up a new potential problem and it's solution would help gain trust in the audience...that he wasn't out to hide facts.

"The last safety issue has to do with gravitational influcences between planets at the projects end. Many wonder if their closer proximity will cause larger tides, or for them to crash. The answer is yes, and no.

"The proposed project would transfer orbital energy between Mars and Venus. It would bring them both nearer Earth. Lets assume that we want to reduce the distance between Mars and Earth orbits by 80%, or 62.8 million kilometers. This mean's at it's closest, Mars will be about 15.7 million kilometers to Earth. Because of Venus' larger gravity, it will only get 2.5 million kilometers nearer Earth's orbit.

"At 15.7 million kilometers, when Mars and Earth are closest, Mars' gravity will increase or decrease Earth's tides by one half of one percent. That means a 10 meter tide could be 5 centimeters higher, or lower, depending on the position of the moon, and only when Earth and Mars got close...normally they would be much further away.

"Now, 80% is used as an extreme figure. We, in this room, may not decide to move Mars that close. But should we choose to, the tidal effects on Earth will still only be a half of one percent that made by Luna...less then that of the KBOs on Mars.

"Venus on the other hand will not get close enough to Earth to make a measurable change in the tides."

West again let that sink in. "And I'll be happy to go over the equations with anyone who wants to see them." he said, getting off the stool on the stage.

"As for the planets attracting each other and eventually crashing into each other, this won't happen. Not only is the attraction so small, but it is averaged out over the orbits. Attraction towards each other on one side of the sun will be cancled out by attraction on the other side, and the entire system remains stable.

"So, now, are there any questions I can answer about safety?"

OOC:You can translate that to a 5th the tidal influence.Unless my understanding of tides is totally whacked out, it should be even less than that, as Mars is smaller, and hence there would be a smaller gravitational gradient between the surface and the center of mass.

OOC:You can translate that to a 5th the tidal influence.Unless my understanding of tides is totally whacked out, it should be even less than that, as Mars is smaller, and hence there would be a smaller gravitational gradient between the surface and the center of mass.

"Very well. CMC owns two land-based installations. Do you consider it right and fair that an outside party be able, in any circumstances, to move the land beneath them (and the installations themselves), without your permission? Nevermind right and fair-- how about legal?

"I should hope these questions are rhetorical, but in an age when foreign corporations threaten to do the exact same thing, no matter how safely it be done, or how many other powers agree to it, one can never be sure.

"As for taking it seriously, that is something the CoFedCo is doing. It is you - and your government - that is merrily discussing the merits of how you intend to move Mars. What you fail to realize is that Mars may not wish to be moved.

"Nothing you can say here will shift our view that our lands may only be willfully, legally moved by ourselves. This is about sovereignty and security, not safety. Unless you can persuade me that your 'solar engineering' is of greater importance to Santa Barbara than the security of the Corporate Federal Conglomerate, Santa Barbara shall not support, condone or allow you to enact your plans.

"If you truly took this conference seriously, and the considerations of sovereign nations and their affairs, this would be enough to cease planning for this ridiculous idea immediately. Unfortunately, I do not think this will be the case.

"Consider it a matter of public record, then, that Santa Barbara views your plan as nothing less than a direct threat to our national sovereignty, and has warned the involved corporations and the national governments in which they are based that this is so, and that any negative consequences of your attempts to follow through with this plan without our consent is entirely your fault. I hope I've made myself clear enough, and that you will wisely not seek to force our hand."

The CoFedCo delegate sighs, pointedly. "Mars has been the cause and site of so many wars, so much destruction and death as of late. It would be a true shame for these irresponsible meddlings to extend and perpetuate the bloodshed."

-multi-

Watching the proceedings, Lord Alton leans back and whispers to an aide. A few moments later, the aid walks off to the Cetagandan shuttlecraft.

{Public Diplomatic Message}
x Lord Theodore Alton (IUoCetaganda)
o Governments of Wazzu and Eniqcir

As you may or may not be aware, corporations of your nations are currently involved in an plan to move Venus and Mars into a Kempler rosette with Earth. This plan has met great resistance on the part of the inhabitants of these worlds, but the corportations seem to be pushing forward regardless. It is my sincere hope that you will pressure these corps to cease their actions.

If they continue, in all likelyhood the governments involved will be forced to take action to prevent any such movements. Many have already stated that military force will used if necessary. That would be most unfortunate, as it easily be avoided if the corportations simply gave in to the inhabitants wishes. I hope you take this into consideration.

Lord Theodore Alton
First Speaker, Imperial Union of Cetaganda

"Very well. CMC owns two land-based installations. Do you consider it right and fair that an outside party be able, in any circumstances, to move the land beneath them (and the installations themselves), without your permission? Nevermind right and fair-- how about legal?

"I should hope these questions are rhetorical, but in an age when foreign corporations threaten to do the exact same thing, no matter how safely it be done, or how many other powers agree to it, one can never be sure.

"As for taking it seriously, that is something the CoFedCo is doing. It is you - and your government - that is merrily discussing the merits of how you intend to move Mars. What you fail to realize is that Mars may not wish to be moved.

"Nothing you can say here will shift our view that our lands may only be willfully, legally moved by ourselves. This is about sovereignty and security, not safety. Unless you can persuade me that your 'solar engineering' is of greater importance to Santa Barbara than the security of the Corporate Federal Conglomerate, Santa Barbara shall not support, condone or allow you to enact your plans.

"If you truly took this conference seriously, and the considerations of sovereign nations and their affairs, this would be enough to cease planning for this ridiculous idea immediately. Unfortunately, I do not think this will be the case.

"Consider it a matter of public record, then, that Santa Barbara views your plan as nothing less than a direct threat to our national sovereignty, and has warned the involved corporations and the national governments in which they are based that this is so, and that any negative consequences of your attempts to follow through with this plan without our consent is entirely your fault. I hope I've made myself clear enough, and that you will wisely not seek to force our hand."

The CoFedCo delegate sighs, pointedly. "Mars has been the cause and site of so many wars, so much destruction and death as of late. It would be a true shame for these irresponsible meddlings to extend and perpetuate the bloodshed."

"Mister uhhh...well, Mr.

"TransCorp takes issues of soverignty very seriously. That is the pupose for the world announcement, the purpose of this meeting, and the reason why I, as I stated before, fully intend to get to issues of soverignty.

"We will talk about soverignty. Right now, we are talking about safety. I am attempting to prove to you that the process is indeed safe. If we can agree on that, then we can move on to other issues.

"This isn't an immediate process. Once started, if started, it will take centuries to complete. There is no need for threats, and no need to jump ahead.

"So if you have a question or concern about safety, please bring it up so we can discuss it. We will get to soverignty in due time."

West then turned his attention to the entire room. "So again, does anyone have any questions about the safety of the project?"

OOC: Just making sure that all the players have accurate information...It is you - and your government - that is merrily discussing the merits of how you intend to move Mars. Once again, the government is not involved in any way.
As you may or may not be aware, corporations of your nations are currently involved in an plan to move Venus and Mars into a Kempler rosette with Earth.That is only one possible final configuration, and not a very likely one at that. And FYI, 'tis spelled Klemperer.
As for IC repeats of previously noted to be incorrect information, I'm assuming it's the characters that are in error as opposed to players.
IC:

The CMC rep rocked on his heels somewhat nervously.
"Ah, if I may, Mr. West, just make one more comment- I can't speak for TransCorp, but in CMC's case if said land could be moved with minimal negative effect, go ahead. Right, carry on."

OOC: Just making sure that all the players have accurate information...It is you - and your government - that is merrily discussing the merits of how you intend to move Mars. Once again, the government is not involved in any way.
As you may or may not be aware, corporations of your nations are currently involved in an plan to move Venus and Mars into a Kempler rosette with Earth.That is only one possible final configuration, and not a very likely one at that. And FYI, 'tis spelled Klemperer.
As for IC repeats of previously noted to be incorrect information, I'm assuming it's the characters that are in error as opposed to players.
IC:

The CMC rep rocked on his heels somewhat nervously.
"Ah, if I may, Mr. West, just make one more comment- I can't speak for TransCorp, but in CMC's case if said land could be moved with minimal negative effect, go ahead. Right, carry on."

OOC: Really? I've seen it spelled Kempler, although the only other place I've seen the idea was the Puppeteer worlds from Niven's Known Space books.

IC:

Responding to the CMC rep, Alton says, "Perhaps that attidude comes from being a culture that largely lives in space. We planet dwellers tend to like our homes to stay put. And the fact remains: the inhabitants do not want the planets to be moved."

David West waited until Alton finished. Then, holding up his hands, he spoke. "Please, please. We are not here to tell everyone that this is what will happen no matter what. The purpose of this meeting is to try and convince the people of the solar system that this is a good idea. But we can't do that if we keep getting distracted from the subject.

"The first step in our appeal is to show you it would be safe. So can we please stay on the issue of safety until everyone is satisfied?"

[[OOC: Not everyone can be online at the same time. Lets give everyone at least 12 more hours from this post to respond to the safety bit, eh? After that, I'll push the discussion onto the next topic.]]

******

EDIT: OOC: Oh, and Eniqcir, actually, in a two-body system (such as Earth/Luna or suggested Mars/KBO), tidal affects on one body are due only to the gravity of the other body.

Earth's gravity tends to pull all water into a rough sphere. It is Luna's gravity that streaches the sphere into more of a 3D ovoid (egg-like) shape...and the Moon's motion around Earth that moves that ovoid...creating changing tides.

Mars has less gravity, so while it would still try to pull its oceans into a spherical shape, a forign body (like a KBO) would have more effect. Since Mars' gravity is less then a half that of Earth's, a planetoid near Mars would cause more then double the tide around Mars, then one near Earth would create around Earth.

I did make one mistake though. I didn't account for how shallow Mars' oceans are. So if a KBO as in that scinario was brought as close as Phobos (closer then we want/need), and if it was nearby Mars long enough, it would actually create a tide much smaller then the 2/5ths of Earth's (due to Luna) that I stated.

tagging this sucka

tagging this sucka

fo shizzle, dogg :roll: :wink:

OOC: The following is OOC information, but you can imagine it is typed up in a neat format and available ICly to any nation/corporation/organization/individual who wants to see it.


From: Introductory Astronomy & Astrophysics, fourth edition, by Zeilik and Gregory

Sun:
Mass: 1.99e30 kg

[b]Venus:
Mass: 4.89e24 kg
Gravity: 0.91g
Orbital Period: 224.70 Days
Orbital Radius: 108.2e9 meters

Earth:
Mass: 5.97e24 kg
Gravity: 1g
Orbital Period: 365.26 days
Orbital Radius: 148.6e9 meters

Luna:
Mass: 0.07e24 kg
Gravity: 0.16g
Orbital Radius (About Earth): 3.82e8 meters

Mars:
Mass: 0.64e24 kg
Gravity: 0.39g
Orbital Period: 686.98 days
Orbital Radius: 228.0e9 meters


"It is estimated that there are at least 35,000 Kuiper Belt objects greater than 100 km in diameter, which is several hundred times the number (and mass) of similar sized objects in the main asteroid belt."


Gravitational Constant: 6.67e-11 N*m^2/kg^2


Assumptions:
Average Medium-Large KBO: Diameter = 100,000 m, Volume = 4.19e15 m^3, Density = 2000 kg/m^3, Mass = 8.38e18 kg
Reduce Mars/Earth average orbital distance by 80% (to ~165.3e9 meters from Sol, ~15.7e9 meters from Earth Orbit).


[u]Equations:
Total Energy of a Planet: E = K + U = (GMm)/2r - (GMm)/r = - (GMm)/(2r) [[Source: Zeilik and Gregory, above]]
Force of Gravity Between Two Bodies F = (GMm)/(r^2)
Force of Gravity, One Object on Another Smaller (used for tidal influence): F=(Gm)/(r^2)

E(Venus) = - [(6.67e-11 N*m^2/kg^2)(1.99e9 kg)(4.89e24 kg)] / [2*(108.2e9 m)] = -2.99e33 Joules
E(Mars) = - [(6.67e-11 N*m^2/kg^2)(1.99e9 kg)(0.64e24 kg)] / [2*(228.0e9 m)] = -1.86e32 Joules
E(New Mars) = - [(6.67e-11 N*m^2/kg^2)(1.99e9 kg)(0.64e24 kg)] / [2*(165.3e9 m)] = -2.57e32 Joules

Mars energy lost = Venus energy gained

E(New Venus) = -2.92e33 Joules

E = - (GMm)/(2r) => r = - (GMm)/(2E)

r(New Venus) = [(6.67e-11 N*m^2/kg^2)(1.99e9 kg)(4.89e24 kg)] / [2*(2.92e33 Joules)] = 110.7e9 meters

So Venus' average orbital radius increases from 108.2e9 meters to 110.7e9 meters from Sol.

******
******

F (Luna on Earth, Tidal Influence): F = [(6.67e-11 N*m^2/kg^2)(0.07e24 kg)] / [(3.84e8 m)^2] = 3.17e-5 Newtons
F (New Mars on Earth, Tidal Influence): F = [(6.67e-11 N*m^2/kg^2)(0.64e24 kg)] / [(15.7e9 m)^2] = 1.73e-7 Newtons

Difference in F (Mars/Lunar Influence on Earth): (1.73e-7 N) / (3.17e-5 N) = 0.0054574... (signifigant figures rounds to 0.005, which is 0.5%

So the tidal influence of Mars on Earth is one-half of one percent that of Luna.

NOTES:
1: This assumes that the distance between Mars and Earth orbits is reduced by 80%. An actual figure has not been decided on but would likely show less change then this.

******
******

Average Medium-Large KBO: Diameter = 100,000 m, Volume = 4.19e15 m^3, Density = 2000 kg/m^3, Mass = 8.38e18 kg
Distance of Phobos from Mars: 9378 km = 9,378,000 meters

F = [(6.67e-11 N*m^2/kg^2)(8.38e18 kg)] / [(9.378e6 m)^2] = 6.37e-6 Newtons

F (KBO/Lunar Tidal Influence) = (6.37e-6 N) / (3.17e-5 N) = 0.2009 => 20%

So the average medium-large KBO at Phobos distance from Mars will have 20% of Luna's tidal influence on Earth

NOTES:
1: The actual gravitational affect on Mars would be more then doubled due to Mars' low gravity.
2: The actual tides caused on Mars would be much less than half that that would be caused by the KBO on Earth due to Mars' much shallower seas.
3: Most KBOs and Asteroids used would be less massive then this.
4: No KBOs would be put this close to Mars.
5: No KBOs will be near Mars long enough to make a true/full tide.

OOC:
Right, couple of problems.
-The solar system exists in what is basically a large equilibrium problem, if you move two major bodies, you WILL affect that system.

-Essentially the equilibirium of the ENTIRE solar system will be affected by this, and will naturally adjust (in potentially destructive ways). You don't have access to equipment needed to run a proper equilibrium problem.
If you want to run a 15 pt. equilibirium problem by hand (and that's treating the various asteroid belts as single objects, be my guest)

-Earth isn't the only inhabited body of the solar system, and only focusing on how this will affect Earth, Mar, and Venus (and ignoring all other inhabited bodies) is major short sight.

-Since this action will affect THE ENTIRE SOLAR SYSTEM,and you must recieve consent from all affected, you're going to need consent of THE ENTIRE GODDAMN SOLAR SYSTEM.

- S-14, a nation we are on friendly terms with, is already on a set path regarding Venus. If you move Venus, they die. If they die, it won't pretty.

- I'm not supporting this crap just so your corp. can save some money on shipping. Potential risks to the solar system (yes, the entire damn thing) far out weigh you're profits.

I am having a very big problem with this. You seem to be looking at this as a two-body problem, which I believe to be a very large assumption on your part. The solar system is essentially a very large equilibrium system. Changing the orbits of two of the points in the equilibrium has an effect across the entire system. Direct effects on the nations on mars, venus and earth aside, and assuming you can generate enough energy to impart a useful impulse to a planetary body, I would have to say that your math is incomplete at best. If you would like to spend the time doing a ten point linked equilibrium problem, be my guest. But until you do all the math, I think it would be better not to make the assumptions that you do.

OOC:

OOC:
Right, couple of problems.
-The solar system exists in what is basically a large equilibrium problem, if you move two major bodies, you WILL affect that system.

-Essentially the equilibirium of the ENTIRE solar system will be affected by this, and will naturally adjust (in potentially destructive ways). You don't have access to equipment needed to run a proper equilibrium problem.
If you want to run a 15 pt. equilibirium problem by hand (and that's treating the various asteroid belts as single objects, be my guest)

-Earth isn't the only inhabited body of the solar system, and only focusing on how this will affect Earth, Mar, and Venus (and ignoring all other inhabited bodies) is major short sight.

-Since this action will affect THE ENTIRE SOLAR SYSTEM,and you must recieve consent from all affected, you're going to need consent of THE ENTIRE GODDAMN SOLAR SYSTEM.

The solar system is not a balance, a top, or in a state of equilibrium. It is a chaotic system that is, always has been, and always will be changing. I have shown some basic physics here that shows that. I challenge you to show at least some basic physics that challenges that. Until then, or until you show me some qualifications, I assume you know nothing about the physics involved or what "equilibrium" truely is.

- S-14, a nation we are on friendly terms with, is already on a set path regarding Venus. If you move Venus, they die. If they die, it won't pretty.

- I'm not supporting this crap just so your corp. can save some money on shipping. Potential risks to the solar system (yes, the entire damn thing) far out weigh you're profits.

Now your mixing IC and OOC. This is definately a bad RP policy.

However, while I believe these are wrong, I refuse to argue it OOCly with you. It's time to be discussed IC is fourthcomming.

Please do not derail this RP with any further OOC arguing. If you want to post something, do it ICly.

OOC:

OOC:
Right, couple of problems.
-The solar system exists in what is basically a large equilibrium problem, if you move two major bodies, you WILL affect that system.

-Essentially the equilibirium of the ENTIRE solar system will be affected by this, and will naturally adjust (in potentially destructive ways). You don't have access to equipment needed to run a proper equilibrium problem.
If you want to run a 15 pt. equilibirium problem by hand (and that's treating the various asteroid belts as single objects, be my guest)

-Earth isn't the only inhabited body of the solar system, and only focusing on how this will affect Earth, Mar, and Venus (and ignoring all other inhabited bodies) is major short sight.

-Since this action will affect THE ENTIRE SOLAR SYSTEM,and you must recieve consent from all affected, you're going to need consent of THE ENTIRE GODDAMN SOLAR SYSTEM.

The solar system is not a balance, a top, or in a state of equilibrium. It is a chaotic system that is, always has been, and always will be changing. I have shown some basic physics here that shows that. I challenge you to show at least some basic physics that challenges that. Until then, or until you show me some qualifications, I assume you know nothing about the physics involved or what "equilibrium" truely is.

- S-14, a nation we are on friendly terms with, is already on a set path regarding Venus. If you move Venus, they die. If they die, it won't pretty.

- I'm not supporting this crap just so your corp. can save some money on shipping. Potential risks to the solar system (yes, the entire damn thing) far out weigh you're profits.

Now your mixing IC and OOC. This is definately a bad RP policy.

However, while I believe these are wrong, I refuse to argue it OOCly with you. It's time to be discussed IC is fourthcomming.

Please do not derail this RP with any further OOC arguing. If you want to post something, do it ICly.No, I'm simply stating what my IC stance is. The IC is affected by IC reasons only, I'm simply letting you know OOC. Don't see how this is bad policy.

When presented with the actual numbers, the two C'tan representatives began to chuckle quietly. This they did for some time, muttering things like "Wow, 0.73AU," before eventually adressing the corparate representatives, "Why not. Knock yourselves out."

http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/iimperium/neja.JPG

Samara Neja
Vicereigne of the former Melkorian Territory of Sentinel Two.

West then turned his attention to the entire room. "So again, does anyone have any questions about the safety of the project?"
A lone man stands. "Yes, I have one. Show me how this will affect the entire Solar System, distance of gravitational influend isn't finite you know."

West then turned his attention to the entire room. "So again, does anyone have any questions about the safety of the project?"
A lone man stands. "Yes, I have one. Show me how this will affect the entire Solar System, distance of gravitational influend isn't finite you know."

"Ahh, yes. Well, the solar system isn't a balance. It is a chaotic system. Realistically speaking, the orbits of most planetary bodies depend only on themselves, any local moons, and the sun. Because the sun is so much more massive then any other planet, including Juipiter, and because the distances between the planets is so great, gravity between planets is effectively nil.

"Ordinarially, even such a tiny force would cause planets approach each other and eventually crash, but the solar system isn't ordinary.

"The planets don't sit in any one place. Instead, they orbit our sun. Any motion caused in one direction by the tiny amount of force between planets is later cancled out as they orbit. This would even be true for a much closer Mars and Earth."

West breathed.

"So overall, planetary motion is almost completely determined by interactions with their satelites and with the massive sun. As long as a planet maintains sufficient distance from others, it's overall energy and the vectors of its orbit will not meaningfully change. Its orbit is stable.

"The one exception to this is small bodies. The asteroid belt, rings of gas giants, and elyptical orbit solar objects are affected by the gas giants themselves, and in the case of rings, by satelites of those gas giants. This is mostly true of Juipiter, who's massive gravity has shielded the inner planets from objects with elyptical orbits...like Earth-Crossing asteroids.

"But we are not moving Juipiter here, and I doubt if we could. It is simply much to massive. Only two of the inner terrestrial planets are being moved, and not sufficiently close to any other planets to creat instability.

"You could say that moving the planets will not create any more instability in the solar system then did bringing the mass of the 'Ring of Powerfullness' in from other solar systems, the mass of the Yvresse Craftworld or Angelus Worlddisk, the DarkSithian artificial moon, or the mass of any of the millions of spaceships and asteroid and comet mines in the solar system."

West looked up again. "Any other questions over safety?"

A group of certainly nonhuman forms filters in from the back, filling into the space nearest the front of the hall and making no effort to be subtle about it. Six Reds, their gleaming and spiked chitinous carapaces augmented by the plates of ballistic armor they wear, scan the area alertly, light glinting off their gigafaceted compound eyes. Staff-like slugthrowers, blocky grips and magazines designed only for grim efficiency, rest slung over their shoulders, muzzles pointing down. In the middle of the hexagon of soldiers are four forms, all in more diplomatic attire, with intricate insignia painted on their bodies--a Blue, antennae tapping quietly over its somewhat larger braincase; a Red, blocky pistol hooked to the front of a bandolier-like sash; a Green, sitting in a cart-like 'wheelchair,' metal frameworks over its gossamer limbs; and several Minis in a smallish mechanical walker, a slaved-waldo to one of the Minis. Finding the seats near-impossible to sit on, they continue standing, clicking quietly amongst themselves. Perhaps we should give them a last chance to make amends.

Make amends, cousin? They plan on a course of action that means our death, then do not even invite us to the discussion? They care not what we think; why should we care what they think?

I agree with our Red cousin... they do not know nor care about the magnitude of their actions. They plan without thinking, act without knowledge.

This is the last gasp of diplomacy, cousins. More... proactive measures are being discussed, this you know.

Mandibles clack in agreement.

---

A long ways away, five similar figures huddle around a central console on the bridge of Colony Vessel Alpha. The central screen of the flat console displays a sixth, a multicolored insectoid of mottled red, blue, green, black, and brown patches. Requesting authorization.
SciCoordinator 50945 of the Blue Mother of Us All, Science Command, authorizing.

TechCoordinator 41899 of the Mini Mothers of Us All, Technical Command, authorizing.

EngCoordinator 86920 of the Red Mother of Us All, Engineering Command, authorizing.

EcoCoordinator 21473 of the Green Mother of Us All, Ecology Command, authorizing.

WarCoordinator 73411 of the Red Mother of Us All, Defense Command, authorizing.

AdminCoordinator 67521 of the Blue Mother of Us All, Colony Vessel Command, authorizing.

The image on the screen taps its antennae together slowly. Confirmed. Alpha, Central Intelligence, acknowleges unanimous authorization. System alert has been raised to Level One--full ready standby--and awaiting operating orders.

West then turned his attention to the entire room. "So again, does anyone have any questions about the safety of the project?"
A lone man stands. "Yes, I have one. Show me how this will affect the entire Solar System, distance of gravitational influend isn't finite you know."

"Ahh, yes. Well, the solar system isn't a balance. It is a chaotic system. Realistically speaking, the orbits of most planetary bodies depend only on themselves, any local moons, and the sun. Because the sun is so much more massive then any other planet, including Juipiter, and because the distances between the planets is so great, gravity between planets is effectively nil.

"Ordinarially, even such a tiny force would cause planets approach each other and eventually crash, but the solar system isn't ordinary.

"The planets don't sit in any one place. Instead, they orbit our sun. Any motion caused in one direction by the tiny amount of force between planets is later cancled out as they orbit. This would even be true for a much closer Mars and Earth."

West breathed.

"So overall, planetary motion is almost completely determined by interactions with their satelites and with the massive sun. As long as a planet maintains sufficient distance from others, it's overall energy and the vectors of its orbit will not meaningfully change. Its orbit is stable.

"The one exception to this is small bodies. The asteroid belt, rings of gas giants, and elyptical orbit solar objects are affected by the gas giants themselves, and in the case of rings, by satelites of those gas giants. This is mostly true of Juipiter, who's massive gravity has shielded the inner planets from objects with elyptical orbits...like Earth-Crossing asteroids.

"You could say that moving the planets will not create any more instability in the solar system then did bringing the mass of the 'Ring of Powerfullness' in from other solar systems, the mass of the Yvresse Craftworld or Angelus Worlddisk, the DarkSithian artificial moon, or the mass of any of the millions of spaceships and asteroid and comet mines in the solar system."

West looked up again. "Any other questions over safety?""That's rich. You've glossed over the fact that the ring was constructed almost entirely with in system materials. Also the mass of the ring and the distances involved allow us to reasonably treat it as a point of mass when calculating gravitational influence on on solar bodies outside of the Saturnian area."

"I would also like to point out that while your assertion about Jupiter shielding is correct, you also neglect to mention that at the same time Jupiter can and has knocked asteroids into potential collision paths. Seeing how Mars is the closest inner system body to the asteroid belt, its relocation could screw up the interation there."

"However, all other considerations aside, our main issue is one of national sovergnity. I highly doubt that you own Mars, Venus, or Earth. These worlds are for the most part, heavily populated. If you move said worlds without the consent of all nations on them, you will be violating their national sovergnity, no ifs, ands, or buts about it."

Meanwhile on a far flung, distant world...

The golden masked General shuffled through the intercepted transmissions from the SK System with interest. Suddenly, he heard the familiar footfalls of the Emperor entering his Intelligence office.

“Looking at that ‘Mars’ again Klytus?” the emperor queried.

“Yes Lord Ming,” General Klytus stood out of respect, “Our agents have detected and intercepted several transmissions from that region of space. It would seem that there’s more life and activity in that area than we had first believed.”

Ming the Merciless stepped up to a nearby View-set and adjusted the magnification wheel on the control console to bring the red orb into focus. “These earthlings seem determined to soil every planet in that system.” Ming winced as he observed the picture in the viewer.

“Yes your highness.” General Klytus continued, “It would appear from these reports that the powers that be in that area are attempting to convene some sort of…conference.”

“A conference on what?” Ming ordered as he continued to view the ships in orbit of Mars.

“Concerning the idea of altering the orbit of that planet my lord.”

“Alter the orbit?” Ming said with a start, “How do they intend to do that?”

“My agents are working to discover that. They should have an answer for you shortly.”

Ming rubbed his forehead and looked again into the viewer before he continued, “These Earthlings are a dangerous, savage race. Their weapons and technology are beginning to grow beyond my comfort level Klytus.”

“Shall I dispatch war rocket ‘Ajax’ your majesty?” General Klytus suggested in an effort to soothe his irritated emperor.

“No,” Ming ordered, “For the moment the empire has more pressing concerns. Post some of your higher ranking Intelligence officers to keep an eye on this ‘Mars’, if they prove to be too dangerous…they will have to be dealt with.”

“Yes Lord Ming.” Klytus smiled sadistically beneath his golden mask as Ming left the office.

OOC: Just making sure that all the players have accurate information...[quote]It is you - and your government - that is merrily discussing the merits of how you intend to move Mars. Once again, the government is not involved in any way.
/quote]
ooc:
Alright, so that was a misprint. ;) No seriously, the point he's trying to make is that your government, in his view, surely MUST have ears and eyes, and is aware of all that is going on here... including the threat of war... and since it is neither acknowledging, nor denying it, it is assumed to be in tacit compliance with these megacorps. And, that he holds it responsible as well.

Edit edit....

***OOC***
Clarification: EVERYONE was invited to the meeting, even the "spacedy ants"..........of course, the ants might not have known that. Just wanted to make sure we were OOC clear on it.

Clarification2: IIRC, it is kinda hard to get actual weapons into the Duma. Though I cerimonial and mock-up weapons might be allowed. You'd have to talk to Mangala. Either way, I'd prefer if this didn't end up in the typical NS shootout. It is a character RP afterall. :)


***IC***

"That's rich. You've glossed over the fact that the ring was constructed almost entirely with in system materials. Also the mass of the ring and the distances involved allow us to reasonably treat it as a point of mass when calculating gravitational influence on on solar bodies outside of the Saturnian area."

"I would also like to point out that while your assertion about Jupiter shielding is correct, you also neglect to mention that at the same time Jupiter can and has knocked asteroids into potential collision paths. Seeing how Mars is the closest inner system body to the asteroid belt, its relocation could screw up the interation there."

"However, all other considerations aside, our main issue is one of national sovergnity. I highly doubt that you own Mars, Venus, or Earth. These worlds are for the most part, heavily populated. If you move said worlds without the consent of all nations on them, you will be violating their national sovergnity, no ifs, ands, or buts about it."

"You said it yourself, distance of gravitational influence isn't finite, and the Ringworld is quite massive. Planets too can be calculated as point sources. And you are correct, Juipiter has thrown a few rocks our way, so to speak, though most are thrown by collisions. Given that it is so chaotic, what is there to mess up?

"As for soverignty. OK, I give in." West again held out his hands. "We'll discuss it.

"The planets are already moving, they always have been. It is the natural state of things. And what we are proposing is no different then pollution, genetic engineering, or even thermonuclear warfare. All these things cross soverign boarders...does your government go to war over them?"

David West indicated he was not finished though. "But look. If we didn't care about your soverignty, we wouldn't have announced our intentions and wouldn't have asked for or supported this meeting. Your nation's soverign rights are important to us, that is why CMC and TransCorp sent us here trying to convince everyone this is a mutually benificial idea."

This should have been posted several hours ago, but the internet seems to hate me....

and since it is neither acknowledging, nor denying it, it is assumed to be in tacit compliance with these megacorps. And, that he holds it responsible as well.OOC: He's not very up on current internal Eniqciri politics, then. : )

IC: Noting the arrival of the ants, the CMC rep inconspicously made his way along the side of the room to the back, fumbling with a realtime translator AI along the way. Approaching the Blue, he gave a small bow and began speaking in soft tones to avoid disturbing the rest of the congregation.
"Greetings! We didn't expect you to come, but it is very good that you have. Had you not, of course, we had hoped to come to you for final approval, but you have, and that is good. It is an understatement to say you are likely rather upset, but we have a few solutions to propose, if you will hear them."


6: Interplanetary gravitation and solar tides make the solar system unstable in its present form. In another 8-10 billion years, the entire system will have collapsed, assuming the Sun doesn't go out first. The possible shortening, or lengthening, of this time span due to this project is within such a small range as to be inconsequential given the extreme restructuring that will be required in the far future. Assuming an absolute worst case scenario, similar methods could be employed to correct any instabilities.
7: The analogy of moving a planet within a solar system to moving territory on a planet is flawed at best. When scale is reduced a second time, the absurdity becomes clear: moving land on a planet is analogous to knocking down and rebuilding walls to move a room in a mobile home. Moving the entire planet is more analogous to towing the entire structure.

***OOC***
Clarification: EVERYONE was invited to the meeting, even the "spacedy ants"..........of course, the ants might not have known that. Just wanted to make sure we were OOC clear on it.

Clarification2: IIRC, it is kinda hard to get actual weapons into the Duma. Though I cerimonial and mock-up weapons might be allowed. You'd have to talk to Mangala. Either way, I'd prefer if this didn't end up in the typical NS shootout. It is a character RP afterall. :)


***IC***

[quote=Berserker]
"As for soverignty. OK, I give in." West again held out his hands. "We'll discuss it.

"Imagine for a moment this. Someone decides to move your house a thousand miles down the road. They don't have your permission."
While I am not empowered to make such decisions, you had better receive permission from every single nation affected here before you even attempt to start your 'project.' Otherwise such project will be considered illegal and acted upon accordingly."

The Blue addressed cocks her head, antennae slowly tapping together as the Red brings out a cubical translator box and shoves it into her broad mandibles, the voice emanating from its grille dripping with contempt. "Did not expect our presence? You only threaten the survival of the panNorm, something we have worked for in the depths while the ancestors of your species were still flinging excrement at each other before they discovered simple stone tools--"

The Blue raises one manipulator swiftly, cutting off the Red's tirade, as she grips her own translator in her 'mouth.' "What are your 'solutions?'"

Clarification2: IIRC, it is kinda hard to get actual weapons into the Duma. Though I cerimonial and mock-up weapons might be allowed. You'd have to talk to Mangala. Either way, I'd prefer if this didn't end up in the typical NS shootout. It is a character RP afterall. :)
-O.O.C. response- Then the magazines are out and the breeches are open, if that makes you feel better. I understand it's character RP; but remember: If one gives a character a reason that they'd want to shoot another character...

Crighton observed the ants. It had been a few years since that fateful investigation. He was one of few that was privy, through his experience on board S-14, to certain bits of knowledge. Of the people in the room, he was one of the few that new just what the ants were capable of. And more importantly, what they would do. They were a good lot, hardy too. But damned if they weren't the twichiest species he had worked with. Altough, he couldn't blame them. Poor blokes on their last legs, all of them

He reached for his pen and tapped quickly on the table, minimal conversational, *Calm, friends* as the ants would hear it.

A man steps out from behind the ants, clad in loose-fitting, flowing black shirt, unbuttoned over-shirt and pants. He turns and bows deeply to the Ants.

"Coordinators. It is a pleasure to meet you. I had the distinct honor of knowing your predecessors, during our first contact with your species. I trust that Alpha has taken care of you in preparation of your goal?"

He turns to the floor.

"I am Hideki. Please, continue."

He takes an available seat near the Ants.

The Federation representative spoke softly. "You are the only ones, you megacorporations, who seem to want this done. If that is it, what does it gain you? Broken ships and dead personnel, no doubt, and your countries involved in costly conflicts which you do not want.

I have a solution. The Federation of Sentient Peoples will simply destroy any KBO or similar object that passes inside the asteroid belt. No one has to die. And since you megacorps will have wasted an investment, that no one but you is paying for, you will have to eat the losses.

Or you can not commit to this project. The choice, gentlemen, is yours."

"Imagine for a moment this. Someone decides to move your house a thousand miles down the road. They don't have your permission."
While I am not empowered to make such decisions, you had better receive permission from every single nation affected here before you even attempt to start your 'project.' Otherwise such project will be considered illegal and acted upon accordingly."

The Federation representative spoke softly. "You are the only ones, you megacorporations, who seem to want this done. If that is it, what does it gain you? Broken ships and dead personnel, no doubt, and your countries involved in costly conflicts which you do not want.

I have a solution. The Federation of Sentient Peoples will simply destroy any KBO or similar object that passes inside the asteroid belt. No one has to die. And since you megacorps will have wasted an investment, that no one but you is paying for, you will have to eat the losses.

Or you can not commit to this project. The choice, gentlemen, is yours."

West sighed, but spoke up to the room. "Has TransCorp threatened to move your homes? Has CMC threatened to kill your citizens? Has Oren Moore threatened to make war? No.

"The corporate leaders of this proposal did not hide their intent. They announced to the universe a plan.

"The initiating companies did not attempt coversion. They asked the Duma to hold a meeting open to all of us to discuss this, to find peaceful agreement.

"The proposed plan is to increase the habibility of Venus and Mars, to increase trade oppertunities for everyone, and if you agree to it, to invite you to join us.

"We, and I, have hidden nothing from you. I've been honest and straightforward from the moment I entered the room. I've not offered bribes, spit threats, demanded cooperation, nor intentionally insulted anyone. I've only offered my employer's and my own point of view in hopes to convince you of our plan's viability, safety, and desirability for us all.

"I ask that those interested only in threats to please exit the building. I am certain your own nation's resources are sufficient for propaganda. Those who would like to meet me in peacefull discussion, no matter the final decision, are welcome to stay. Diplomacy is afterall the mission of this great building."

http://www.pacifier.com/~cziller/duma2.jpg

The Tsarainese delegate had been shipped to Mars hastily aboard a rescheduled freighter to attend this conference, but the environment systems aboard that freighter had been insufficient to carry an extra passenger. So the "delegate" was little more than a large viewscreen on mechanical legs, linked by quantum entanglement to a Tsarainese diplomat back on Earth.

Once the TransCorp official finished speaking, the screen rose a little higher on it's legs, and emitted a soft but carrying tone. On the other end of the quantum link, Diplomat-Commandant Kital ralVhari leaned closer to the screen.

"May Tsaraine be heard?" he asked, politely; there was too much verbal heat in the Great Hall of the Duma to add to it - Tsaraine was, after all, a world away from Mars, though the red planet was important to them too.

Suddenly a red light started blinking on Applebius' robes. The lapel pin on his left shoulder changed to a steady red. A glass of water started to move towards the DSMC representative, til it ended on his hand. At this point, he softly spoke:

"This simple gesture I do it countless times a day at home. But we are not allowed to do it outside. This light is informing right now of the transgression I have commited. I will have to explain myself back at home.
Your technological ability to move planets is nothing compared to the power of the Force. Just in Mars, we are a billion Force users. With just that, we could stop all planets in the solar system cold. But being able to do one thing doesn't mean you should do it. As we were aware that most of you weren't able to tap into the Force, a ban on its use outside DarkSithian ground was imposed, instead trying to do things your way. This is one of the reasons why we built Thanatos (OOC: Another one was the pharaonic taste of the Emperor for having the most visible mark in Martian sky named after him. :))
You keep trying to tell us this is safe, and it is for the good of all us. But from the wording you keep using, you are not listening. You intend to do it, no matter the opinion of the sentient beings involved. You are not here discussing IF this should be done, but WHY it should be done.

Well, both the Federated State of DarkSith Mars Colony AND the Earth-based Metropoli of the Federal Empire of DarkSith do not want these orbits altered. No matter how safe this is. So you have now a negative in the name of approximately three billion people. What will you do now? Leave behind our part of Mars and move the rest?"

The Federation representative smiled wanly. "I threatened no one. I simply stated what would happen if the plan was attempted. We would infact try very hard to avoid killing your employees.

You say you brought us here to present the plan to us. As far as I can tell, you've presented it." His face grew hard. "Your talk of desirability, and safety, is meaningless because no one wants this move made. You brought us here to hear our opinions. You have. Sunset does not want it done. The C'tan do not want it done. The DarkSith do not want it done. Menelmacar does not want it done. Berserker, S-14, Cetaganda, Santa Barbara do not want it done. The Federation does not want it done. And that is only some of the nations this will effect. None of whom wish this to go forward.

We don't care how safe it is, or how it doesn't empinge on our sovereignty. Simply put, we don't care. The nations of Mars, and Venus, and the Solar System at large do not want this project to continue. So stop it now.

You say we are here to reach a peaceful agreement. We have. Our answer is 'No' Mister West.

You may go home now, and discontinue this foolish project before it brings us all grief."

He looked down at the datapad, as he made motions as if to sit, then looked up. "And another thing... I happen to know that the mathematics and physics of multiple body gravitational energy transfer is much more complicated than what you've shown here. I happen to believe you could carry this out, not with these numbers, but anything can be done, if you want it bad enough.

But until you're prepared to show us your multi-dimensional computer models, and your real, approximate mathematics, rather than this two body crap that anyone could learn in secondary school or introductory university physics, I don't think you're going to convince many of the other people here. I would imagine a full scale test would also be enough proof. You're welcome to send anyone you wish along the S.P.S. Vector when it leaves soon to explore along the warp chain with hopes of finding a suitible test site. I'm sure that Menelmacar and Sunset would also be willing to help find locations, though I wouldn't think to speak for them."

He smiled, and sat down.

"You speak of desirability, Mr. West. The question is, desireable for whom? There are many who desire for parts of Mars to remain close to its natural state - something impossible if you move it. There are those who desire that Venus remain in place, so that their species is not destroyed. There are those who desire that Mars stay where it is, so as to not disrupt their trade with the outer system - and make no mistake, it will disrupt trade for many who use less sophiscated craft; trade with Earth will not be as easy as you claim, either, seeing as how major velocity changes will still be needed. Why should these groups, who are the ones that actually inhabit the planets in question, give up their own desires to satisfy yours?"

***OOC***
Since Tsaraine has not spoken, I'll post as if DarkSith, Sentient Peoples, and Cetaganda representatives spoke up first. It should lend to better continuity.

***IC***

West seemed to be listening as three seperate people in the room launched into lectures. When the last was finished, he looked to the DarkSith persona.

"Indeed Mr...Applebius is it? I am trying to convince people why this should be done. I am not saying it will be done, just that it would be a good idea.

"However," now David tured towards the Cetagandan representative, "I've yet to get to why it would be a good idea. The idea was to discuss safety first. Perhaps now is the time to go over a few of these reasons."

West took another sip of water and sat back upon his stool. "As we project planners in TransCorp see it, there are two really good reasons to move the planets, particularly Mars.

"First, if we move them," West nodded at Applebius, "then both planets will...would get further inside the 'habital zone' of our solar system. Because of it's mass, Venus wouldn't move much, so will get only a little bit cooler. Mars would be moved much further, and this should be a tremendous help to the terraforming process.

"Yes," Now West was looking at the Cetagandan, "There are some people on Venus and Mars who do want those planets to remain in their natural state, such as the Red Mars terrorist group operating out of Vascilia. But most Martian and Venusian powers are interested in the bioforming process. I don't think those nations, including my own, are ready to stop changing the environment even though it interferes with the soverignty of other nations.

"So helping the terraforming process along is the first benifit, the second is trade."

West gave one of his signature pauses in explination. "Moving Venus will have little impact on trade. There isn't much past Venus to trade with, Venus isn't a large market, and the move would be too small. Mars is another matter.

"Moving Mars closer to Earth would give it a faster orbit. This would mean Earth and Mars would not near each other as often, but would stay near each other longer, overall neutral. It could also mean signifigantly lowered shipping costs for everyone between Earth and Mars. The proximity of the two planets would even allow less developed nations much easier access to the Martian markets, which would increase trade for everyone.

"This does mean Mars will be further from the Belt, Juipiter, and Saturn markets. However, this isn't really a problem. The orbits of Jovian planets are already so far away, that the change in Martian orbit will be relatively small. Moreover, because Mars' orbit will be faster, it will pass by the same side of the sun as the gas giants more often, if for less time. That gives shorter but much more frequent windows for less advanced nations to trade with outer-system countries.

"Overall, the move would enable less-developed nations to trade more easily. Increased trade brings increased profits and living conditions for everyone, and increased competetion which is great for the consumer.

"So the plan should be desirable for most everyone...with the exception of anti-terraforming groups, and large shipping corporations that wish to maintain a stranglehold over smaller nations.

"Whew!" West breathed, making a joke of his own habbits. "And a touch on safety and soverignty for our FSP delegate.

"It is my understanding that a nation's soverignty includes not having others speak for it. I don't even try to speak even for my own nation, so I am not sure why you are insisting no one can change their minds over opposing this plan. Please, let them choose.

"I also remind you again that the proposal to move Mars and Venus will take centuries. It would be a long-term project, and does not need to start imediately. We have no wish to commit Xenocide, we can wait for the S-14 residents to arrive.

"Lastly, we in TransCorp deliberately limited the physics presented here because most people here are diplomats, politicians, military advisors, corporate representatives, and similar, and because this is being broadcast live to the entire solar system. If you or your scientists want to have an involved discussion with out scientists about the n-body problem and why the move won't...wouldn't cause Ragnarok, I can set that up for you."

[[OOC: Warning FSP. Demanding real-life physics OOC/IC when using fantastic/imaginary futuristic "technology" yourself if hypocritical. The Mars/Venus move plan is a plot tool to have a fun RP around. If your prepared to kill it over real physics, you better start comming up with some real physics as to how your "drive fields", "shields", "warp chain" and similar things work.

On the other hand, if that isn't your intent, consider the "multi-dimensional computer models" and similar all available. :) ]]

Attention in the room turned to a hologram as it spoke up.


"May Tsaraine be heard?"


"Of course!" West responded, "Please...." he gestured.

"It is not desirable for us," the Blue Coordinator says quickly to the room, "no matter how it succeeds. If you do manage to move the second and fourth worlds of this system successfully then we will die either the slow death of starvation as we fire the engines of Alpha to burn out of your system, lacking the resources for another interstellar journey on the order of millenia, or we die the quick death as our deceleration maneuver hits its target--which is, alas, not there to catch us--and we spiral into Sol. Alpha, due to the angle at which it approached this system and the multiple cross-track maneuvers it has had to perform to slowly decelerate after multiple periods, lacks the delta-v necessary to enter either a stable Solar orbit or the new orbit of the Eärendil. We are aimed for a transfer from an inclined orbit around Sol to an inclined orbit around Eärendil. It is our only option."

"We have heard rumors of delay," the Green says weakly from her cart-like chair, moving lethargically in the heavy Martian gravity, "and even the Greens, known for their patience, cannot sit by and 'delay.' For the past four hundred orbital periods of your third world, we have been optimizing the biosphere of Alpha--our crops and our herds--for the conditions expected for the terraformed Eärendil... where it is now." The quiet voice takes on a hard tone. "Even moderate differences in temperature and pressure--especially those expected from this move--will lead to a violent upset in the ecosphere, our ecosphere. The eighty years remaining of our maneuver are not enough to re-breed everything to something you may like better." The Green, at first speaking in the soft tones common to her kind, begins to grow harsher, more forceful. "If we establish ourselves on Eärendil and then you move it, then there will be a massive upheaval of our planned biosphere, leading to a population-destroying J-curve as the planet not only can no longer sustain our current numbers but cannot be rebuilt up to those numbers. Our genetic pool is already shallow from millions and millions of orbital periods of us breeding in the confines of Alpha in our factions. There is no chance of a viable population coming out of such a move if our fields are destroyed."

Finally, the Red steps forward. "Our fuel is spent. Our supplies are spent. Our options are spent. If you proceed, at any rate, our civilization," she strikes her hard carapace with a balled manipulator, a loud, solid 'clunk' sounding out to the room, "the panNorm we have worked to sustain for multiples of the age of your species, will die."

Pausing for a bare moment, she lowers her head slightly, antennae going back, mandibles tightening around her translator as she points an accusing manipulator at West. "Yours will not. If you consign us to death, to utter annihilation, we have no qualms about returning the favor."

"It is not desirable for us," the Blue Coordinator says quickly to the room, "no matter how it succeeds. If you do manage to move the second and fourth worlds of this system successfully then we will die either the slow death of starvation as we fire the engines of Alpha to burn out of your system, lacking the resources for another interstellar journey on the order of millenia, or we die the quick death as our deceleration maneuver hits its target--which is, alas, not there to catch us--and we spiral into Sol. Alpha, due to the angle at which it approached this system and the multiple cross-track maneuvers it has had to perform to slowly decelerate after multiple periods, lacks the delta-v necessary to enter either a stable Solar orbit or the new orbit of the Eärendil. We are aimed for a transfer from an inclined orbit around Sol to an inclined orbit around Eärendil. It is our only option."

"We have heard rumors of delay," the Green says weakly from her cart-like chair, moving lethargically in the heavy Martian gravity, "and even the Greens, known for their patience, cannot sit by and 'delay.' For the past four hundred orbital periods of your third world, we have been optimizing the biosphere of Alpha--our crops and our herds--for the conditions expected for the terraformed Eärendil... where it is now." The quiet voice takes on a hard tone. "Even moderate differences in temperature and pressure--especially those expected from this move--will lead to a violent upset in the ecosphere, our ecosphere. The eighty years remaining of our maneuver are not enough to re-breed everything to something you may like better." The Green, at first speaking in the soft tones common to her kind, begins to grow harsher, more forceful. "If we establish ourselves on Eärendil and then you move it, then there will be a massive upheaval of our planned biosphere, leading to a population-destroying J-curve as the planet not only can no longer sustain our current numbers but cannot be rebuilt up to those numbers. Our genetic pool is already shallow from millions and millions of orbital periods of us breeding in the confines of Alpha in our factions. There is no chance of a viable population coming out of such a move if our fields are destroyed."

Finally, the Red steps forward. "Our fuel is spent. Our supplies are spent. Our options are spent. If you proceed, at any rate, our civilization," she strikes her hard carapace with a balled manipulator, a loud, solid 'clunk' sounding out to the room, "the panNorm we have worked to sustain for multiples of the age of your species, will die."

Pausing for a bare moment, she lowers her head slightly, antennae going back, mandibles tightening around her translator as she points an accusing manipulator at West. "Yours will not. If you consign us to death, to utter annihilation, we have no qualms about returning the favor."


***OOC***
Again, assuming this happens before Tsaraine's hologram message to maintain continuity.

***IC***

"This is a disturbing problem." West responded to the 'ants'. "You see, Venus, Eärendil, whatever you like to call the second planet, is still in the terraforming process. The plan, led by Menelmacar, is to continue to bioform the planet until it is fully habitable.

"If your ecology is set for where the planet is now, in its terraforming process, then when your population arrives in eighty years, the ecosystem will already be different, and still changing. If what you say is true, then the only way to save your people would be to halt the planetary engineering process where it is now."

West put his hand to his lips and looked down in thought, but quickly looked back up and to each of the representatives from Venus-land holding nations...looking last at Lord Celebrimbor nos Fëanor. "Lord Celebrimbor, I understand Eärendil is not yet fully habitable, but is your nation prepared to stop the terraforming to save these people?" David gestured towards the ants.

"You idiot," the Green practically screeches, "we have worked our ecology out to work with Eärendil in it's current orbital parameters! We are key players in the terraforming process!"

"You are a lucky little endoskeletal," the Red sneers, "if this pistol were loaded I would decorate the room with the sloppy viscera that hangs from your bones."

"Apparently diplomacy is worthless against the egos and profit margins of your owners," the Blue bows haltingly, "and any further efforts at communication will come through far more permanent means. Good day."

The delegation storms out, butting through the crowd while seething in their native language.

The Blue addressed cocks her head, antennae slowly tapping together as the Red brings out a cubical translator box and shoves it into her broad mandibles, the voice emanating from its grille dripping with contempt. "Did not expect our presence? You only threaten the survival of the panNorm, something we have worked for in the depths while the ancestors of your species were still flinging excrement at each other before they discovered simple stone tools--"

The Blue raises one manipulator swiftly, cutting off the Red's tirade, as she grips her own translator in her 'mouth.' "What are your 'solutions?'"
"Well, of course we wanted you to be present, but you never responded to the general invitation, so we just assumed... well, never mind about that. They are numerous, but I will present only a few, the ones we are sure we can make work. Probably the least palatable from your end is the possibility of moving Alpha at the same time as the planets. Hopefully more to your liking is the possibility of providing additional living space and shuttling between Venus and Alpha. We have also considered timing the planetary boosts such that Venus will still intersect your trajectory, just at a different time. Finally, we can provide you with fuel. Very large amounts of it."

Just as West started his last response to the ants, Mr. CMC rep's eyes shot open, and he began attempting to discreetly wave, while mouthing. Shut up! They know this! Bad, bad! New sentence, new sentence, new sentence! Of course, this was in vain, as said rep's skills at lipsynch were incredibly horrible.

The delegation storms out, butting through the crowd while seething in their native language.
The rep hardly "stormed", but definitely went "out" behind the ants. Just out of earshot of the rest, he let out a gasping "Please, wait! Mr. West was simply misinformed in this matter! I can assure you, the proper authorities are aware of your involvement in the bioforming, but the specifics you have presented were quite unknown. If what you say is true, not that I'm implying it isn't, it calls for some serious rethinking, if we can just calm down and talk about it... are you even hearing me?"

Alton sighs and bows his head. "I think I've made Cetagandan policy clear enough. Feel free to come see us once you've managed to convince everyone on the planets that this is a good idea. Here's a suggestion to get you started: try to stop insulting the intelligence those hundreds of billions of people. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go convince my insectoid guests not to premptively blow up any planets." With that, Alton leaves the room.

Outside, he quickly catches up to the S-14 delegation. "I apologize for obstinancy of those...people. My ship will, of course, ferry you immediately back to Alpha, or, should you desire, to Titan to speak with the Triumvirate council. I know many member nations are angry over this, and am positive that the ToY will use any means needed to prevent this folly from continuing. Furthermore, I pledge that Cetaganda will do so with or without approval from the Triumvirate."

Crighton grimaces as the panNorm delegation storms out, chattering as they go. He grimaces even more when as he recognizes bits of the chatter. Can it even bend that way?

"You really should do your homework Mr. West. The panNorm has been working side by side on the terraformation of Eärendil with the Menelmacari for generations."

"This error aside, let me make something perfectly clear here."
"They are a good race. A hardy race."
He pauses thinking for a moment
"And a damned paranoid race, and I can't blame them."

"You don't know them like I do Mr. West. I've been aboard their world ship, hell, I've fought against them." Hell, I've used those pistols of theirs and when he says decorate the room with your viscera, he means it

"They've been adrift through the stars for millenia, their ship has more patches than a quilt, hell, they've nuked parts of the ship during infighting."

"Their on their last legs right now, and until a couple generations ago, they had lost their way, both through the universe and life itself."

"It would be, wise, if you were to show a bit more concern to their plight, least you find yourself as the proverbial "bin Laden" to their "United States."

"Don't toy with them, and don't treat them as inferior. And definately, don't encroach upon their soverignty. Don't take these words as hostility towards you, that is not my intent, but, you don't want them angry with you Mr. West," Crighton leans towards West, starring straight at him, eyes locked, "You DO NOT....want that."

"I believe we will take advantage of your offer to take us to Titan." The Blue taps her antennae together, manipulators drumming a cadence on her carapace. "We know that the Mothers of Us All and the OverCoordinators have agreed to employ whatever means necessary to prevent this project, and it is only fitting that you be briefed on those probable means."

"Those means do include the Fist," the Red adds quickly, "which is our primary method of neutralizing pesky energy-transfer bodies. Or striking other strategic targets. I understand that my sister-warriors are also being mobilized to secure hostile assets."

"Our experiments over time have turned out to be successful," the Green says without prologue, "and we believe that some might be rather useful in this case... assuming that the previous less-pervasive and less-persistent measures fail."

"We will not let our species die," the Red summarizes simply.

OOC: Eeek! Sorry about the delay.

"Thankyou," ralVhari said, once the babble of the assembled diplomats had quieted enough for him to be heard.

"I believe it's important to point out that this situation need not yet come to blows. While certain of the nations involved here have good reasons to feel threatened by this plan, surely violence should be our last resort, not our first? Nobody needs to waste lives over this.

"Though it is located primarily on Earth, Tsaraine does have holdings in the Asteroid Belt and the Jovian Leading Trojans, and Mars is important to our transport fleets in slingshot approaches to those bases. If Mars was not where it is, those slingshot approaches would not be possible, and transport to the outer system would not become only a little more expensive - it would become much more expensive, and transit times would increase. The Solar System is a dangerous place, and those transit times need to stay low for Tsaraine to be able to get fleets to Far Stone or Kel Meralkharant in any sort of haste.

"Thus Tsaraine is naturally worried itself about this ... ambitious scheme; we'd like Mars and Venus to remain in the same old orbits they've been in for all of recorded history.

"I will leave the blood and thunder to others, but I should like to quote a small section of the Mangalan Accords, of which the United Celdr Empire of Eniqcir and the Dominion of Wazzu - the nations in which CMC and TransCorp are situated - are members;

No terraforming projects not currently underway at the time of the ratification of this treaty that impact areas outside the territory owned by the nations or organizations undertaking the projects will be initiated without the consent of all affected nations, with projects on international land to be approved by the Duma.

"Surely this section of the Accords quite explicitly forbids this project to begin without the consent of all the affected nations? Several such nations have already expressed their hostility to the plan, and I don't see that CMC and TransCorp have much hope of winning them over; certainly Tsaraine will not budge from it's position.

"Thus, surely CMC and TransCorp would be better advised to abandon this bold plan? Continuing it in the face of international hostility and the laws to which the Accord signatories must comply would, it seems, simply lead to quite unneccessary grief for all involved."

"You will note, ralVhari, that we are well aware of the text of the Accords, and the most basic purpose of this meeting is to attempt to sway that vote. If you are truly so set that you will not budge from dismissal of the project, no matter what benefits are to be had, then why are you here?"

"Everyone in this room should be here because they are, or were, willing to change their minds. If that was never the case, then I am truly disgusted with the lot of you. Despite what many of you may think of the plan itself, it was concieved in a spirit of helpfullness. Yet we were met not with a request from anyone else to explain, but with threats of military action when no harm had been done to any of you. Were it not for the fact that such would place an undue burden upon the ants, I would certainly consider suggesting the cessation of our current beneficial activities."

"Now, if anyone here has reason to continue being here, by all means speak up. Otherwise, unless Mr. West has something to say about it, a day to you all."

With that, the CMC rep calmly left the stage for perhaps the last time, and began walking to the back.

(A final OOC aside: The gravitational atraction felt by Earth towards Venus is ~.000000001 m/s^2 at closest approach. Even with a margin of error of 100%, one coulc remove or add a second Venus with no ill effects. Would orbits change? Yes. Would that be noticeable by anyone but an astrophysicist looking for it? No. And the effects are even less on every other planet. So far, the n-body simulator seems to agree that moving Mars inward 80% closer to Earth would not destabilize the rest of the system. Granted, it's running a home computer rather than the school Cray, but really the only valid argument against the Plan not of the aesthetic variety is that it would mess with the Ants.)

OOC: The ants, and everyone else.

OOC: Until and unless I claim to have a modern physics justification of my technology, I fail to see any hypocrisy in my actions. As far as I can tell, you’re claiming to be able to do this using simply modern physics. Complex modern physics, but only modern. If that is not the case, forgive my assumption and misunderstanding. If so… *shrugs*

Also, Eniqcir, is this n-body simulator you mentioned proprietary software of your educational institution, or freely available, or commercially available? I’m simply curious.

IC:

The representative’s data pad made a soft beep as it acknowledged the receipt of the more complex mathematical data. That, after all, was why he was there, to gain as much information about the proposal as possible.

He wondered, though. Computer simulations usually created spectacular visuals for swaying an not quite as scientifically informed populous, and so, he wondered why exactly the three megacorps had chosen not to use computer models for that.

Not his responsibility, though.

He tapped out a response to shift back over the transmission to Mister West. Thank you for the data.

Then the representative sat back, and wondered, as he listened to the closing arguments, whether or not Mars could be moved on its own using this method, to prevent any damage to the ants home. Not that it mattered. The Federation’s position would not change.

OOC:Also, Eniqcir, is this n-body simulator you mentioned proprietary software of your educational institution, or freely available, or commercially available? I’m simply curious.Leaving the first part to Wazzu despite having a good response, as that's his argument.... TJ probably has a proprietary n-body simulator sitting around somewhere, but I'm not using it. Google is your friend. I've played around with a few freeware simulators, right now I'm trying out JOrrery. Not exactly high-end, but good enough for my purposes, I'd think.

Then the representative ... wondered ... whether or not Mars could be moved on its own using this method, to prevent any damage to the ants home.Yes, actualy, it could.

Oh, and they did use computer animations. In the broadcast just prior to the conference.

Darth Applebius' attention wasn't centered on the events happening before him. His attention was rather occupied by his left ear. The comm device attached to it, more specifically. There he could listen to the gentle voice of Darth Nautas, Fleet Admiral:

"... I HOPE YOU HAVE HAD FUN WITH YOUR THEATRICS! I SURE HAD NOT! WHEN I SEE YOU AGAIN I WILL..."

At this point, a new voice broke in, carrying the dulcet tones of the Viceroy Darth Tempius:

"THIS IS THE MOST IRRESPONSIBLE THING YOU HAVE EVER DONE! AS SOON AS YOU GET BACK HERE I WILL DEAL WITH YOU PROPERLY! AND WHATEVER REMAINS OF YOUR SORRY CARCASS I WILL PERSONALLY HAND TO NAUTAS TO DISPOSE OF YOU AS UNUSABLE TRASH!"

But even this voice disappeared, as suddenly all the muscles in his body, except his heart, contracted simultaneously. And inside his head, not his left ear, a new voice spoke, softly, almost chuckling:

"'Your technological ability to move planets is nothing compared to the power of the Force'. Indeed. You are right, of course. I even understand why did you do what you did. But that doesn't mean I won't spare you. Yes. I have just arrived on Mars. I am up there. I am the Eye in the sky, looking at you."

Terror filled Applebius' heart. The Emperor Himself was there, and listening!

"Yess... I can feel you are afraid. That is good. Do not worry about the Viceroy or the Admiral. Fear me."

And with that, the spasm disappeared, and he could breathe again. He also noticed that both voices had shut up. Surely they had Sensed His presence. He got his attention back to the conference.

(OOC: this is just a RP filler or a BUMP. And yes, the Emperor did that to him from high orbit, without line of sight or anything. You can see Him up there, piloting his specially made black TIE fighter, with shields, hyperdrive, and no weapons.)

(OOC: Seeing that this thread seems stopped cold, I have to say that the building of the moon has resumed its normal pace, i.e. 1 RL day=1 NS year.

Also, I cannot leave my Emperor hanging in space, so:

IC: )

The black TIE fighter turned and took an approach vector towards Mangalan space.

"This is DarkSithian ship Incoming Threat (OOC: :roll: ), demanding a route to the landing point closer to the Duma Building. Over."

The TIE fighter landed on a pad in the Duma, unchallenged. The cockpit opened and a man dressed in the typical DS robes emerged out of it. No one was there to greet or intercept him.

Pausing only as if to locate something, he walked without hesitation towards the buildings that composed the Duma.

Darth Applebius' attention wasn't on the conference. He could Feel with a sensation of impending doom the approach of the Emperor. It was like an unstoppable flood or an incoming train.

The door to the room opened partly.

To an observer relying only in his eyes and ears, it was just another DarkSithian trying not to disturb the conference in progress. To any Force attuned being, it was like the sun just entered there. He just sat besides the DS Representative before the Duma, saying nothing.