NationStates Jolt Archive

Is there such a thing in here? As a Catholic and as ruler of a nation that is zealously Catholic, I say we Roman Catholics must elect either a Pope or Cardinal as our spiritual head. I will create a nation for the person we elect and they will be our holy father.

Is there such a thing in here? As a Catholic and as ruler of a nation that is zealously Catholic, I say we Roman Catholics must elect either a Pope or Cardinal as our spiritual head. I will create a nation for the person we elect and they will be our holy father.

Its so nice to see alot of Catholics here. I am myself a Roman Catholic, and my nation has a Cardinal. There can only be one real Pope and thats Pope John Paul the II!

True, but musn't God also have a messenger in NS? We'll make this "Sub-Pope" answer to Pope JPII, as he is the only true Holy Father. Anyways, it would spice things up for us true believers.

we offer a portion of our land and resources to form the NS equivalent of the vatican.

NS popes tend to be assasinated very regularly

we'll make sure he's very well-protected. we've got a huge military with nothing to do.

Yes, your resources are much needed, but I say our holy father deserves a form of the Papal States to honor him and his service to God. Hmm, maybe I should create a region known as "The Papal States"..........

Being a simple atheist who enjoys his lions-vs.-christian games, I normally don't pay attenetion to religious matters in the NS universe. However, I think I can offer some advice.

There is a Vatican nation (holy Vatican See if I remember correctly) that some of the more promient catholic nations acknowledge as being the de facto Pope in NS. Roania is one of these.You might want to contact them, they seem like nice, bigoted people. MAybe they can inform you a little more on the catholic power structure in NS.

Not really yours,
Baad Skeelzot, Grand Prince of the Skeelzanian Principality

There is a NS Catholic Church. I don't think that the new Pope has been chosen, though. For more info, contact the nation of Holy Vatican See.

I'm a Catholic too. My entire nation is Catholic as well :D As for the national pope, I don't know..

I have seen the nation, I do not agree. Their nation, if truly Catholic, though very young of a nation, should move to "The Papal States", a region created for the pope and his subjects and representatives. He seems weak and manipulated. Let us choose our own Pope.

You don't want to choose two popes and HVS is currently holding the conclave and he is considered the Vatican so...ya

The Sacred Papal States is the name of the region. Sorry for the incovenience. I will accept him as holy father if they move to The Sacred Papal States and assume the holy throne there by contacting Pergutoria for the password.

You don't want to choose two popes and HVS is currently holding the conclave and he is considered the Vatican so...ya

Yeah. They'd never agree on issues.

Hmm, is there a Salt Lake City nation that LDS nations answer to? I guess I'd have to ask Raysia about that.

OOC: Skeelz, remind me to hire you as my professional herald.

IC:

We object to this attempt to split the church. The nation of Purgatoria, should it continue to undermine the strength of HVS in these troubled times, shall face our wrath.

"I propose that the Catholica Nations of NS conduct a formal meeting whereby one nation is ordained as the Offical Holy See and a Pontiff is choosen. To our understanding three nations are currently acknowledged as the Holy See, Being Roania, Holy Vatican See and His Holiness the Pope. Rotovia offers it's Diplomatic Plaza to host the meeting, our largerly Catholic populace would consider it an honour."

~President Dionysus Baccheus

Go to International Incidents saying you represent the Catholic Church. Your capitol will become a mushroom cloud before you can say 'Amen'. The Catholics have a bad rep for warmongering in NS.

OOC: I said I supported HVS. I'd never claim to be the Papal nation.

My country would be honored to host the NS Vactain. We will have 24/7 militatry service. The Pope, the Pope palace and church will be guarded with ONLY the best of the best of the best from my militatry. Everywhere he goes, he will have someone keeping an eye on him. Also everyone is tracked in my country, with barcodes cards. So I know where everyone is at all time. It may not be good for Civil Freedom, but its safe. The Pope will have 10 militatry personal with AK-47's and his palace and church will have 100 Militatry personal watching it.

If there is a NS Pope, is there a NS Patriarch for Orthodox nations?

Hmm, is there a Salt Lake City nation that LDS nations answer to? I guess I'd have to ask Raysia about that.No one really RPs as it, as far as I know.... pretty much just make it up based on what you know they'd say lol, like "A transmission from SLC:"

Huh. I've never really had an LDS nation, except the Antelope Island-based New Seneca, and I never did get around to posting its RP.

The Holy Vatican See is currently roleplaying the Vatican, and has the backing of almost every major Catholic roleplaying nation. A very good system complete with Cardinals from each of the nations, etc.

ooc: I've chosen to recognize the Holy Vatican See as the seat of power for the Church in my rp's. Their threads have been intelligent, well organized, and truly enjoyable to follow and participate in. If it's going to be done, do it right, says I.

So yes ... they have my support, and that is the Pope my nation's Catholics shall be following. If you check on some of their threads, you'll see there's a number of nations taking the same view on it, some of which have posted here.

ooc: Yes, they are the most accurate I think. The person has VERY extensive knowledge of the Church, and how it works. It is a blessing to Nationstates we have such a good roleplayer with such knowledge to play the Pope.

OOC: Yes, the Holy Vatican See is a dang fine roleplayer, yet I think that the See of Peter one of those RL things I think NS should not alter. Not to mention the fact that HVS has "radically" altered history (according to HVS's official storyline, JPII died in 1988). So, I officially ignore them. As I mentioned before, HVS is a very good RPer, and I've thought about Rping with him, on the condition that everyone knew I was doing it as a "what if?" scenario and not as something that affected the wider NS world.

As for the Catholics being regarded was warmongers, you can blame that on countries like Belem and Iesus Christi. Iesus Christi started it all by attempting to combine traditional Roman Catholicism and fascism. His region, the Reich, is bascially all conservative Christians who are evil fascists. Belem, while not a member of the Reich, also joined in the act, being a "Catholic" country who also does things like genocide, racism, and the like. Their tactic is to claim to say they support the Church on her teachings that get the most attention in the press, such as insisting on the truth of the Bible and the Catholic faith, opposing homosexuality, abortion and euthanasia (and divorce and birth control), rejecting the calim that all religions are equally valid, etc., while ignoring the Church's teachings on human rights, rascism, eugenics, etc.

The problem is, orthodox Catholic nations such as mine often get lumped together with them, and because the psuedo-Catholic fascist nations oppose homosexuality, support the Pope, etc., they support the fascists in their endeavors and let them into their organizations (such as Defenders of the Faith, which includes Belem, and a previous Catholic Mutual Defense Agreement, which included Iesus Christi). Which really bothers me, as I'd like to join Catholic organizations but don't want to be allies with psuedo-Catholic fascists.

One of the things I'd really love to do in NS is to get a coalition together, invade the Reich, defeat them in a knock-down, drag-out, no-nuke war, put their leaders on trial, then rebuild the region ala post-WWII West Germany. But since I was almost kicked out of SATO, and SATO is de facto dissolved, and the fact that Menelmacar (to my knowledge) still has Iesus Christi on her ignore list, it doesn't look like that will happen soon. :(

God bless,

The Republic of Syskeyia

OOC: Yes, the Holy Vatican See is a dang fine roleplayer, yet I think that the See of Peter one of those RL things I think NS should not alter. Not to mention the fact that HVS has "radically" altered history (according to HVS's official storyline, JPII died in 1988). So, I officially ignore them. As I mentioned before, HVS is a very good RPer, and I've thought about Rping with him, on the condition that everyone knew I was doing it as a "what if?" scenario and not as something that affected the wider NS world.


ooc: Sys - when are you gonna get it through your thick head that this is 'roleplaying' and hence, cannot affect real world politics and happenings? Are you truly so limited in scope and mentality as to be unable to separate what goes on in NS and what goes on in real life? My nation isn't a real life nation. None of these here are, regardless of what their name may claim. This is a whole different 'reality' if you will, and as such, I see no problem whatsoever with folks taking things based on the real world and putting a new spin on them. I mean honestly ... do get a grip. You going to claim you don't watch any movies out there that reflect anything of the real world because they *gasp* don't follow it exactly? Where is the storyline and fun in that?

I fail to see why you rp here at all if that's your view. And again, have to laugh at the audacity you once again show in trying to tell people what they should and should not 'meddle' with in their rp's. You can't 'radically alter history' in this game, because it IS just a game, and as such, histories and curent events and futures are being created on a daily basis. Once more, in case you missed it - what we do here does not affect the real world and as such, people's interpretations of it all needn't hold to your decidedly limited views. You don't like it? Feel free to withold comment. It adds nothing to say 'I don't approve because you don't hold to my view of how things can or cannot be'.

Have a nice day, bye-bye ... and of course ...

God Bless.

--Nathi's Player

ooc: I personally think ROLEPLAY is the most important thing in the game. The fact these nations are fascist make them more interesting, though people could do other unique things. Roleplay is the fun of the game, not maintaining hard coded beliefs that the game should reflect RL.

OOC: Yes, the Holy Vatican See is a dang fine roleplayer, yet I think that the See of Peter one of those RL things I think NS should not alter. Not to mention the fact that HVS has "radically" altered history (according to HVS's official storyline, JPII died in 1988). So, I officially ignore them. As I mentioned before, HVS is a very good RPer, and I've thought about Rping with him, on the condition that everyone knew I was doing it as a "what if?" scenario and not as something that affected the wider NS world.


ooc: Sys - when are you gonna get it through your thick head that this is 'roleplaying' and hence, cannot affect real world politics and happenings? Are you truly so limited in scope and mentality as to be unable to separate what goes on in NS and what goes on in real life? My nation isn't a real life nation. None of these here are, regardless of what their name may claim. This is a whole different 'reality' if you will, and as such, I see no problem whatsoever with folks taking things based on the real world and putting a new spin on them. I mean honestly ... do get a grip. You going to claim you don't watch any movies out there that reflect anything of the real world because they *gasp* don't follow it exactly? Where is the storyline and fun in that?

I fail to see why you rp here at all if that's your view. And again, have to laugh at the audacity you once again show in trying to tell people what they should and should not 'meddle' with in their rp's. You can't 'radically alter history' in this game, because it IS just a game, and as such, histories and curent events and futures are being created on a daily basis. Once more, in case you missed it - what we do here does not affect the real world and as such, people's interpretations of it all needn't hold to your decidedly limited views. You don't like it? Feel free to withold comment. It adds nothing to say 'I don't approve because you don't hold to my view of how things can or cannot be'.

Have a nice day, bye-bye ... and of course ...

God Bless.

--Nathi's Player

OOC: DNS, are you Cyberutopia's player? Because Cyberutopia made a very similar comment in the "Ruhr vs. C&A" thread. :)

Anyway. Glad to comment. Because it give me an opportunty to commnent on an issue that's bothered me: the relationship between RL history and the NS world.

Basically, my opinion can be summed up thus: you may add to history, but you may not alter it.

Before you go "You're ignorant, Sys! Don't you know that adding IS altering," let me explain.

One of the first major things of this is when Knootoss, who claims to have a good-sized portion of the Netherlands, claimed that the nation of Knootoss had existed since 1581, when it was owned by Lavenrunz. Previously, Knootoss said that his country was founded in 2003 (when his country was founded in NS) when the people of Knootoss voted to declare independance from the Royal Netherlands. The second once I could accept, as it accepted RL history up to the date that the country was founded in NS. Likewise, in my view the Federal Republic was founded NYNJ was founded in 2003, and New York was founded by the Dutch (not Knootians) and later taken by the English (not Der Angst), whose colonists later broke away, and so on.

You might say "but Sys! Lavenrunz=Spain, Knootoss=Holland and DA=England in the aforementioned situations. You just change names and that's it." No, that's not it. For, you see, the Dutch war of indepednacne affected the real, physical country of Spain and the taking of New Amsterdam affected England. For Lavenrunzians to fight alongside Spanish in the Dutch war, or for Lavenrunz to have a de jure but not de facto claim to Holland (or maybe just de facto ownership of saome fictional Dutch islands), or to have some Angstians among the Duke of York's men is one thing, to remove Spain from the Dutch war and England from New York is totally different. (Not to mention the fact that New York would be New Mongerelbach or something like that. ;) ) The latter option would alter the histories of England, Spain, and Holland, which would then alter everything else. Tons of countries in NS use RL weapons, read RL books, practice RL religions, and believe in RL philosophies- none of those things exist in a vacuum, you know.

A better approach to NS/RL history would be to "add" to history. Pantocratoria, I think, serves and an excellent example of this. His country is a "spin-off" of Byzantium, as it were, with the heirs of the Byzantine throne escaping the Turks and going to the fictional Pantocratorian archipaleago(sp). They launch several unsuccessful crusades to retake Constantinople, which leaves the city convienently in Turkish hands, as was historically true. During the French Revolution, the heir to the French thrown is smuggled out of France by a Pantocratorian merchant, and later marries into the royal Pantocratorian family. Here is adding to history- while the major events are left unhindred (France becomes republic, King, Queen etc. are beheaded, Reign of Terror), Pantocratoria's player has been able to connect his history with the French and, in a sense, get involved in history while leaving the RL timeline intact.

Sys - when are you gonna get it through your thick head that this is 'roleplaying' and hence, cannot affect real world politics and happenings? Are you truly so limited in scope and mentality as to be unable to separate what goes on in NS and what goes on in real life? My nation isn't a real life nation. None of these here are, regardless of what their name may claim. This is a whole different 'reality' if you will, and as such, I see no problem whatsoever with folks taking things based on the real world and putting a new spin on them. I mean honestly ... do get a grip. You going to claim you don't watch any movies out there that reflect anything of the real world because they *gasp* don't follow it exactly? Where is the storyline and fun in that?

My rule of thumb is "if you claim RL land, RL history stops when your NS founding date begins." And I do watch and enjoy history movies, despite their aberrations from reality (Gladiator, anyone)? But what am I supposed to do with a nation that, say, claims they fought in a great Muslim/Buddhist War in Texas, in which they say millions were involved, was in 1854, and ravaged most of the Lone Star State? Worse yet, what if O've interacted with some player that interacts with said state.

I could go on about the "2017 Siri/NYNJ/C&A partition of America," but let's just say I don't like future DATES, not future tech.

As for the Papacy, my main objection to an NS pope would be that there could arise a situation where the NS Pope and the RL Pope conflict regarding faith and morals, and I want the Syskeyian Church to be as in line with the RL Church as possible. (I consider myself an orthodox Catholic.)

God bless,

The Republic of Syskeyia

OOC: To sum up - thank God we don't have to play by your limited rules or views. And again, feel free to not participate in threads where folks who play as they'd like, not as you do. I'm sure the lack of your participation will be mutually appreciated.

I find your opinions supremely arrogant and irrelevant, so I think I can count myself lucky in that I will not have to deal with you or your nation in RP on account.

The only 'relationship' between RL and NS ought to be that hey, we're all from the former and playing in the latter. You can keep your opinions and limitations and have fun with them. Don't presume, as I have seen you do in the past, to butt in and tell people they can't play as they see fit. I could spend all day long criticizing posts I feel are ridiculous, but I don't - and do you know why?

If I'm going to not recognize something or someone, it seems a waste of energy and an exercise in hypocrisy to do so. I'm much better served, and my search function is much cleaner, by posting only where I mean to play with those whom I mean to recognize. Voila. Nor do I feel a need to publish a list of who and what I choose not to recognize, though I shan't deny others their right to do so.

So there you have it - live and let live, have fun playing in your little corner, and I'll enjoy this wide space over here. *grins* Myself and others have chosen to recognize the HVS. That you choose not to matters not one whit to us. As for the 'in line with', all I can say is I think these folks have done a more admirable job in keeping true to things than most out there, and hence, have a lot of credibility. You, on the other hand, have left me unimpressed on several occasions. Ah well - can't please them all, neh?

And for the record, no - I do not now, nor have I ever played Cyberutopia, though they were one of the first nations I interacted with when first I started way back in May of last year. Ordered some naval bits from them too, as I recall ...

-- Nathi's Player
Arrogant, sarcastic, ornery old fart. Condescending? Well ...
"It isn't being condescending when you're simply better than them."
(sigline all delivered tongue firmly in cheek)

[you're arrogant, narrow minded, idiotic, ridiculous, and your RP sucks]
Hmmm... if you're OOC female, sounds like you and Ruhr's player would make an excellent couple. :D

The only 'relationship' between RL and NS ought to be that hey, we're all from the former and playing in the latter. You can keep your opinions and limitations and have fun with them. Don't presume, as I have seen you do in the past, to butt in and tell people they can't play as they see fit.

But here's the problem:
Nation A ignores nation B
Nation A has interacted and continues to interact with Nation C
Nation C, however, interacts with Nation B, and Nation B's actions considerably affect Nation B[/quote]

What is Nation A to do? I know there's a gazillion nations out here with a kajzillion RPs around here, but I've always sensed there's a "main" storyline around here. I also sense that the vast majority of serious RPers have a "main" storyline. So what happens when a nation with whom I've had considerable interaction with not only interacts with an ignored nation whose stroy conflicts with mine?

There's an issue of conflicting storylines here. What to do?

God bless,

The Republic of Syskeyia

Hello,

For along time now I have been reconized by many as the NationStates Pope.I have offered my guidence to nations for a year now.You may reconize me as NS Pope, not real Pope, but a man of God no less.Thank you.

Salve Rome,
~His Holiness the NS Pope

Two threads for the Holy Vatican See:
Roman Catholics Conference: http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=121698&highlight=
Factbook: http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=121157&highlight=

I can*t recall seeing a Patriarch or LDS here (and I*ve been playing since August). I have seen a few Popes, and even an few Anti-Popes. I think I*ve seen a few other Lamas besides my own Whilan Lama?

[you're arrogant, narrow minded, idiotic, ridiculous, and your RP sucks]
Hmmm... if you're OOC female, sounds like you and Ruhr's player would make an excellent couple. :D

Now all of that is just being childish. Still, if you truly think that's exactly what I said, and you believe it, far be it from me to disabuse you of that notion. And no, Ruhr and I don't get along as well as you'd think, he's far too young, and believe it or not ... I'm taken, thanks.

But here's the problem:
Nation A ignores nation B
Nation A has interacted and continues to interact with Nation C
Nation C, however, interacts with Nation B, and Nation B's actions considerably affect Nation B

What is Nation A to do? I know there's a gazillion nations out here with a kajzillion RPs around here, but I've always sensed there's a "main" storyline around here. I also sense that the vast majority of serious RPers have a "main" storyline. So what happens when a nation with whom I've had considerable interaction with not only interacts with an ignored nation whose stroy conflicts with mine?

There's an issue of conflicting storylines here. What to do?

God bless,

The Republic of Syskeyia

Well, I guess that's the risk you take when adopting a hardline stance such as you have. It still doesn't give you the right to dictate to others how they may or may not rp their nations. Which was, I thought, the main thrust of my irritation with you, in case that had slipped your attention whilst going on again about how your view is the correct one regardless. Because as we all know, this game revolves around you and your preferred style of play. *grins*

--Nathi's Player
Again, ribbing somewhat whilst trying to illustrate a point.


PS Vatican City - that's nice, dear. As this is your first post, I'll just take that with a grain o' salt, hmm? My preferred line of rp has been stated, and I will be sticking to it.

And yes, Raysia has tended to play a Mormon style nation, misguided as they ofttimes have been.

OOC: Nathi, I've been wondering... you're in control of Italy? Why didn't you ever, just once, claim to be the Papal nation?

Not complaining or anything.

OOC: Nathi, I've been wondering... you're in control of Italy? Why didn't you ever, just once, claim to be the Papal nation?

Not complaining or anything.

No, not in control of Italy, never was. I play a nation based heavily on Italy and its influences, but no. Never did, in all my back history claim the seat of power for the Catholic church was in my nation, simply that it had been quite central in it's development. So no - there are absolutely no conflicts here, and in fact, it works out rather well in the end.

Is there such a thing in here? As a Catholic and as ruler of a nation that is zealously Catholic, I say we Roman Catholics must elect either a Pope or Cardinal as our spiritual head. I will create a nation for the person we elect and they will be our holy father.

Well....as perhaps the largest Catholic nation in the world we should all take my Pope as the head of the Roman Catholic Church in NS. Currently ruling Catholic Europe is Pope Urban XI.

Ah, more Catholic nations. There is no Pope at the moment, we will abide by the Pope elected by Holy Vatican See's RP (as he seems to know plenty about the Vatican).

Ah, more Catholic nations. There is no Pope at the moment, we will abide by the Pope elected by Holy Vatican See's RP (as he seems to know plenty about the Vatican).
But I am perhaps the largest and oldest Catholic nation on NS (even larger and older than Iesus Christi).

Ah, more Catholic nations. There is no Pope at the moment, we will abide by the Pope elected by Holy Vatican See's RP (as he seems to know plenty about the Vatican).
But I am perhaps the largest and oldest Catholic nation on NS (even larger and older than Iesus Christi).

Iesus Christi, Catholic? More like Fascist ... :)

Iesus Christi, Catholic? More like Fascist ... :)

Still Catholic.... :wink:

ooc: Well ... what can I say to that other than size, and age, means nothing in the grand scheme of things. Show me some relevant rp. I see nothing here but a "RAWR, I'M HUUUUUGE!" statement. *grins*

Again - I know where I'm playing, and it seems there are several of us who feel that way. As with all open rp systems - pick what you like and go with it.

Pergutoria now accepts Holy Vatican See as the seat of the Roman Catholic Church. All pretenders must now stop their claim.

I am also the 2nd most devout nation in the whole NS world.

I am also the 2nd most devout nation in the whole NS world.

OOC: CE, I know you mean well, but I think most of us are sticking with HVS. And we all know that that's only because of size. Care to schism?

...

Didn't think so.

OOC: Schism seems to be on the agenda here. (I tried to post something before bed last night along the lines of Roania, but ran into the anti-server...;))
I think it appears that an NS Schism already exists. I am not Roman Catholic, but have a small Catholic minority (10%), so am interested to see where this goes...

OOC: I'm sure you would stay loyal, Daistallia... I mean, after HVS came, I was one of the first to recognise him, and now I hardly ever kill people for being of other religions anymore... unless they're, you know, fundamentalist Mormon or Church of Satan or something. Though Roania is in contact with the Church of Satan, as it is believed they'd be a moderating influence, and that evil has just as much right to be organised as good.

Jury is still out on the Lutheran Church, though. :)

OOC: CE, I know you mean well, but I think most of us are sticking with HVS. And we all know that that's only because of size. Care to schism?

...

Didn't think so.

No, no. I understand. I was only really messing about because I'm not an RP nation anyway (I think that it would be hard for me to get into RP now that it is so developed).