NationStates Jolt Archive

Welcome, Member-Nations of the International Defense Initiative. The purpose of this thread is to house a meeting of the IDI to make an important decision. The decision we need to discuss here is whether or not to re-admit the nation of Xanthal to this proud organization. The list of nations who will be allowed to post in here is listed below.
~Speaker.

Belem.
Cyberutopia.
Matrex.
Oglethorpia.
Teritora.
Kecha.
Xanthal.
Pablicosta.
Haraki.

And I'll be here to answer any questions you may have for me while you make your decision.

I have long had good relations with Xanthal and I am for Xanthal rejoining the IDI.

Kecha approves of Xanthal re-joining the International Defense Initiative.
~Speaker.

The People approve. They also ponder why Belem is still in the IDI.

The People approve. They also ponder why Belem is still in the IDI.

Your approval is noted. The continued status of Belem as a Member-Nation of the International Defense Initiative is not currently the issue. After the voting on Xanthalian application is done, you may bring up that issue.
~Speaker.

Noted.

Noted.

Very well. Let's continue.

Belem approves of the reentry.

So far, 50% of the Member-Nations have voted in favor of Xanthal being allowed to re-join. We need 1 more Member-Nation to vote in favor, and Xanthall will be admitted. We wish to point out to all other nations that we have had good relations with Xanthal in the past.
~Speaker.

Wow, no questions even. How do you all know that we haven't become a nation of traitorous psychopathic killers? Well, mabye our reputation is finally speaking for us instead of against us.

I had some reservations, but I have faith in my fellow members. I have no problem with Xanathal re-joining. I am in favor of them rejoining us.

All righty then. I'll mosey on over and add this to my factbook. I'll probably release some fancy IC statement later on, too.

For the record, we also approve the re admission of Xanthal. We have good and peacefull relations of late, and I feel a re-acception is nescesery(Spelling?)


~Graeme Francks,
Pablicostan Representative for IDI Matters,
#4125

Might I bring up the issue with the scourge known as Belem?

((Scourge is such an awesome word!))

Very well then. In accordance with the Majority Ruling of the Member-Nations of the International Defense Initiative, Xanthal is re-admitted to the International Defense Initiative.
~Speaker.

Might I bring up the issue with the scourge known as Belem?

((Scourge is such an awesome word!))

Yes. You may now bring up this issue.
~Speaker.

In this thread or another?

In this thread or another?

This one, if you wish.
~Speaker.

Gotcha.

Too long has Belem gone unpunished for their atrocities commited upon our government and our people in what is known as the Cyberutopian Incident. Though many records were destroyed after the tyrant Cortez took power and in the struggle afterwards, conclusive evidence has been gathered from the few surviving details after all these years that none other than Belem, one of the few nations we had trusted, was the one in control of the splinter cell agent that placed a nuclear device in our capital, turning what was once Sapporo into a pile of radioactive rubble. Not only this, but satelite picture files show that Belem was shipping supplies to the rebels that killed our leader and ravaged the nation for a short tim, and did have at least a division of armed troops within our borders, primed to fight against us.

We hope that the appropriate actions shall be taken.

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=72534&highlight=

I'll examine your evidence provided in that link.
~Speaker.

Do you wish a vote, Cyberutopia?
~Speaker.

Complete and utter rubbish. Belem has never detonated a nuclear device on Cyberutopian soil. Nor have Belem soldiers ever stepped foot in Cyberutopia except as peacekeepers.

Any supplies brought to Cyberutopia from Belem were sold by private corporations which the government does not control.

'Twould seem a discussion is in order.
~Speaker.

This is hardly the first time Belem has been supected of interfiring and possably trying to over throw government of other countries. But this is the closest thing to proof in some time.

It would seem so.
~Speaker.

Belem, we have discussion recordings of the meeting of an Overseer with Belem government officials over an economic and military alliance, and official statements issued by the Belem government pledging support for the rebel held capital when it was threatened by Roanian forces. Not only this, but the nuclear devices recovered before they could be detonated were made with an isotope of uranium with a specific radiological pattern distinct to a form used only in a few nuclear weapons production facilities around the globe, two of them in cooperation with the Belem government. Further still, you have been known to have disliked our form of government for a long time, siding with Bisons several times when he nearly invaded Cyberutopia over the form of government in place there, known as socialism.

While we aren't big fans of Socalism here in Kecha, there ought to be a better reason for trying to unseat a Government aside from the fact that you dislike it.
~Speaker.

Belem has always sold tactical nuclear devices to countries willing to purchase them, so finding a nuclear device with Belem patterns is quite likely esspicialyl for the smaller mobile kind which are mass produced for sale abroad.

Kecha: We have found Belem's politics to be frequently irrational, for them to try and upsurp a government because they don't like them isn't shocking.

Belem: So you have no quarrels with the numerous other claims?

Belem always tries to make sure all bases are covered. So negiotating with the rebels when they were in power was just talks between the government of one nation and the other.

And though we may of sided with Bison we never actually invaded making the point mute.

Yes, and having a company of your soldiers guarding an Elven death camp set up by rebels were just "talks" as well. You also plotted with the rebels before they took power, don't forget that.

They were peacekeepers who were guarding the location which also happened to be where the camps were set up.

And that is just hearsay.

Mmm, yes. Heavily encypted communiques are just "hearsay", and assisting in genocide is "peacekeeping". What ever you say, Belem. The issue is before the rest of the IDI, they have heard enough of both sides.

Elves are not human, nor are they considered sentient by Belem so anything the rebels did to them was not against Belem law and it was perfectly within the governments right to do so.

What Cortez erected in the place of the true regime was not a government. His influence reached no further than the capital, while the rest of the nation lay in anarchy. Nor does Belemian racism have any place in this discussion.

I understand why the Archbishop doesn't like Belem, racism has no place here.

What Cortez erected in the place of the true regime was not a government. His influence reached no further than the capital, while the rest of the nation lay in anarchy. Nor does Belemian racism have any place in this discussion.

the Capitol is the government and the Revolters technically won the war. And Racism has nothing to do with Belem law Belem law recognizes only Humans, and its the governments right to do as they wish with the people within there country.

OOC: Remember this? Old freakin' times. But Xanthal never allowed themselves to forget it, though it happened almost 1,500 years ago by their clocks.

IC: Xanthal still retains evidence proving that Belem participated in the unprovoked attack on Xanthalian targets in 1989 during the nuclear threat crisis. Of course, we have evidence linking other nations (KECHA!) to the attacks, but Belem is the current issue, so we won't bring that up. If it is a vote whether or not to allow Belem to continue as an IDI member, we must in good conscience vote to eject him. By the way Kecha, and the others who participated (you know who you are!), a formal apology would be appreciated, though it is over a millenium late at this point.

Despite what is accepted in Belem, in Cyberutopia the People and only the People are the governing party. In case you have not noticed, Cyberutopia isn't Belem. To counter your other point, recognizing only one being as the sole sentient being is racism.

Xanthal wishes a formal apology from Kecha? Well, this may be difficult, as Kecha still officially denies participation in such events. I'll put this proposal to Her Holiness.
~Speaker.

Kecha: You do that. And tell her holiness that the least she could do at this point is admit her nation's role. What does she have to lose anyway? It's been over a thousand years, nobody's going to blame her.

Xanthal: YOU CAN'T PROVE ANYTHING! *runs off laughing insanely* :roll:

Seriously: Cyberutopia still denies any involvement in the crisis, but perhaps if it is proposed, some truth will be revealed. We have no records of any such occurance, anyway.

Cyberutopia: OOC: Not against you mabye, but we have proof on Belem and Kecha, and we know that other IDI nations were involved, just not which ones.

((Yes, we took special measures to retain secrecy. Chances are something will come out eventually.))

You have no proof Xanthal. your just generally anti Belem because of the difference of idealogies.

Belem: You wish. We have proof that the diving suits used in the attack on our harbour, though unmarked, were used by your black OPS teams at that time. We also have proof that a submarine was present that "coincidentally" operated out of a Belem military port. It was also a "coincidence" that the divers tried to borad that submarine and that we intercepted a coded message from the submarine on a known Belem military frequency. The greatest coincidence was that a dud explosive the divers wired to one of our aircraft carriers had a military serial number on it. You were there. You can deny it all you want, but you were there. And you cost the lives of forty good naval officers. Oh, and by the way, our operatives in Belem at the time reported that a highly secret operation was being carried out with the Belem navy and black OPS at the same time as these attacks. One, two, mabye even three of these pieces could be called coincidence. All four pieces point to you though, and you were the first exposed. Kecha did better, but with the release of unrelated but corroberating records almost a century later they too were identified as present. We can't prove that anyone else was involved, but we do know that those weren't our only IDI "friends" attacking us that day. And don't even get me started on the actions of Pablicosta. Their troops tried to take our Dictator into custody. At least they didn't hide like cowards from the truth of their actions.

OOC: serial numbers are scraped off before black ops.

OOC: Duh. But you're misinformed if you don't think that modern technology can't lift filed serial numbers. For a nation in the thirty-fifth century it's even less of a problem.

OOC: so u just kept stuff u found around for a thousand years?

Belem: Generally? No. But evidence from an unsolved military crime? Hell yes. The Xanthalians find it hard to let civilian cases go. When the nation is attacked, you can bet your ass that they'll preserve every last particle of evidence into eternity until the crime is solved. Of course, they've already solved it. But as long as you keep denying it they can still hold it against you. Honestly, the fact that you deny it is the only thing standing between you and a handshake of forgiveness at this point. For the Xanthalians, hiding from your actions is the greatest crime of all. That's why all but current Ministry of Intelligence records are open publicly. Xanthal doesn't keep secrets. It's a culture thing. If a Xanthalian does a crime, they're actually likely to plead "guilty" in court.

OOC: Well Belem would have destroyed any physical records of an attack so the attack does not exist to Belem.

OOC: Well then, around and around it goes. I'm not going to argue with you OOC. You know your nation better than anyone. I've said my piece.

Then shall we get back to the task at hand about wither Belem should be expelled or not.

We've had our piece there too. We vote to expel Belem from the IDI.

Xanthal: Very well. As of this moment, Her Holiness admits that there were Kechans involved on that day. She will not, as of yet, admit if they were, or were not, operating under the Kechan banner. We are a proud people. I hope you will understand her reluctance to go further on the issue just now.
~Speaker.

Kecha: Indeed? Well, that is good enough for us. We will close the case, dispose of the evidence, and consider the matter ended. As all the prosecutable parties are long since dead, we see no reason not to continue our past friendly relations. It's good to clear the air a little in the IDI.

As all the prosecutable parties are long since dead, we see no reason not to continue our past friendly relations.

If you say so.
~Speaker.

OOC: also i just realized this u mentioned the diving suits. Non of my men were and anyone who was killed was taken back to the subs.

OOC: None of your men were what?

none of my men were captured.

--

OOC: Your men did an exceptionally good job of towing away their dead. Unfortunately, it seems that you are mistaken. You see, we have the body. Sounds like a personal problem. Such a shame that you destroyed your records. Perhaps they would help...

We beleive that to maintain stability within the IDI, the stability which has been compromised many times in the past we must vote to alow Belem to remain a part of the IDI.

We understand that this may stir contraversy within the Initiative, so we wish to state our reasons for the descision.

A) Belem has played an influencial role in the foundation and continuation of the IDI.

B) We have seen no solid evidence to prove that Belem should be ejected from the Initiative.

While your opinion is respected, we wish to know how our evidence is not solid.

OOC: Your men did an exceptionally good job of towing away their dead. Unfortunately, it seems that you are mistaken. You see, we have the body. Sounds like a personal problem. Such a shame that you destroyed your records. Perhaps they would help...

OOC: I remember that all my men brought the bodies to the pick up ship. and I only lost 2 men and had 2 wounded i believe.

While your opinion is respected, we wish to know how our evidence is not solid.

Alone it would be, but it is not alone. With Belem refusing to admit (I am NOT accusing) we can see no clear path to expulsion, so we must allow him the right to coninue as an IDI member.
I understand that you may dispute this descision, as you are entitled too, but we have made our choice.


~Pabli

I am going to have to hold my vote. I have not seen solid evidence stating that he should be dismissed. I wish that I could see both sides of this story and get more information.

Pabli: While your decision is respected and we will not dispute it, we can't help but point out that Belem has never admitted to anything, and probably never will.

Matrex: We feel that both sides have been equally represented, and Belem has been given chances to make counter arguments and has taken that liberty. If the evidence provided here is not sufficient, then perhaps this is:

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=80861&highlight=

As you can see, Belem took the side opposite to every single of our allies involved. Is this the duty of an IDI member?

I agree that taking the side of our opposition was wrong, and that isn't what the IDI nations should do. I vote that Belem should be removed.

I agree that taking the side of our opposition was wrong, and that isn't what the IDI nations should do. I vote that Belem should be removed.

I vote for Matrix to be excluded from this vote as he is clearly uncertain on his descision...

I have read this information, and it does dis-hearten me but I wll stand by Belem on this issue.

Ever Stuborn

~Pabli

You can't exclude the vote of another member! The IDI is an equal aliance!

I know... I didnt seriosuly want to ignore, I was just making a point.

Ever Regretfull

~Pabli

We would ask that Pablicosta refrain from trying to force fellow nations to abstain without conclusive evidence that said nation is incapable of making their own decision based on the evidence provided by the two conflicting parties.

I do not feel that my decision was wrong. Is it not my right as and IDI nation to vote the way I feel. If you do not agree I think you should be removed from the IDI. I looked at the evidence and I took a stand. We must agree to disagree.

John Hall
Ambassador to the IDI from Matrex

Things are heating up in here.

Is that a good thing or a bad thing to you?

The IDI has never been the most internally-friendly alliance. Our members have too many differences to play nicey-nice. Speaking of that, this thread (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=128548) will most likely seriously concern the IDI very soon. I recommend that you all at least browse it. If you don't want to, just read from page four on.

The situation in that thread can be salvaged, even if we come to blows.

I hope to god that we don't. The course of the RP is up to you, Kecha. You alone have the power to start or avert a battle in that thread.

I hope to god that we don't. The course of the RP is up to you, Kecha. You alone have the power to start or avert a battle in that thread.

OOC: I'm playing the part of a race of fighters, they wouldn't retreat if this were really happening. The fight will probably happen. I'm thinking about it with the seconds I have left.

OOC: I know. I can always hope, though.

OOC: I know. I can always hope, though.

Well, look on the bright side. Even if a fight happens, it'll look amazing.

OOC: Amazingly bad. We'll be totally invalidating any sense of unity in the IDI. It may look good for the proverbial cameras, but the diplomatic consequences would be horrible.

OOC: Amazingly bad. We'll be totally invalidating any sense of unity in the IDI. It may look good for the proverbial cameras, but the diplomatic consequences would be horrible.

OOC: Think I don't know that? I'm just trying to maintain the character of my nation.

OOC: I know, I know... I just don't like it. Traditionally the Xanthalians have backed down from wars, but this time it's different. They're defending their brethren. That's why they won't retreat. And also why they won't fire first.

OOC: Well, if nothing else, I'll get experience on how to RP and Outer Space combat.

OOC:The ones that are really going to be messed up are mine but it will be intresting, the Asha Brothers have arrived there.

OOC:The ones that are really going to be messed up are mine but it will be intresting, the Asha Brothers have arrived there.

I consider this RP open-activity, meaning any one of us could lose major people/ships in this. You could lose the Asha Brothers, I could lose Admiral Rose, etc...

True but I got others intresting Admirals if it happens.

I have no recurring military characters. Too annoying to keep them alive.

Xanthal: Be that as it may, you might lose some major ships.

With the way the forces currently stand, I'd stand to lose around 10-20% of my fleet. Andromedas are not combat vessels. I told you that in the first place, but you've made them into a combat force anyway. Because of that choice, you don't have a prayer against real warships.

With the way the forces currently stand, I'd stand to lose around 10-20% of my fleet. Andromedas are not combat vessels. I told you that in the first place, but you've made them into a combat force anyway. Because of that choice, you don't have a prayer against real warships.

I've never found anything else to use really. If it comes to war, maybe I'll....Wait....Idea :twisted:.