NationStates Jolt Archive

Recently, I've been thinking about developing my country's history during World War II. Now, as my country is located in Southeast Asia, the most likely thing would be for it to encounter the Japanese. So, I've been thinking about my country fighting off a Japanese invasion (or two.) What kind of tactics and strategy did the Japanese use?

My current "plan" is this: dual invasion of Syskeyia by Japanese- I from north via the Twin Shrine Pass, and another from the sea. The one from the Sea is defeated by a big air battle, but the land one takes, well, a bit more time. The Syskeyians fight manage to defeat the Japanese, and are bent on unleashing their forces on Japan-occupied China. However, because the Syskeyian government unsuccessfully tried to kill FDR's mistress, US supplies dry up. The Truman administration then revives suplies to Syskeyia, but by then Stalin has smuggled Communist insurgents into the country, giving the Syskeyian Army a new enemy to fight. Thus Syskeyia cannot get involved in the Chinese civil war. :D

Armor: Syskeyia begins with mostly prewar US and British tanks, such as the Vickers Mk II (http://www.onwar.com/tanks/uk/fmedmk2.htm) and the M1 and M2 "Combat Cars" (http://www.wwiivehicles.com/html/usa/m1_m2_lighttanks.html), but later as supply lines are re-established get things like the Sherman Firefly (http://www.onwar.com/tanks/uk/ffirefly.htm) and the M24 Chaffee (http://www.onwar.com/tanks/usa/fltm24.htm).

Airplanes: As for fighters, I'm thingn of starting with P-40s and Spitfires and the like, but later acquire some Mustangs and Corsairs. Transports? Probably the C-47 and its gunship variant. As for bombers, I'll probaby have light to medium bombers, such as the A-26 Intruder, B-25 Mitchell, and the Mosquito. Nothing huge like B-17s and B-29s, though.

Infantry weapons: Well, here's my World War II infantry squad:
Squad Leader- "Sten 45" (Most usually)/M3 Grease Gun (Later in the war)/Thompson machine gun (If you're lucky)
Medic
Rifle Team 1
Team Leader- Syskeyiapolis 1900 (early)|Syskeyiapolis 1942/M1 Garand (later)
Machine Gunner- Browning Automatic Rifle/Bren LMG
Shotgunner- Shotgun
Rifleman- Syskeyiapolis 1900 (early)|Syskeyiapolis 1942/M1 Garand (later)
Rifleman- Syskeyiapolis 1900 (early)|Syskeyiapolis 1942/M1 Garand (later)
Rifleman- Syskeyiapolis 1900 (early)|Syskeyiapolis 1942/M1 Garand (later)
Rifle Team 2
Team Leader- Syskeyiapolis 1900 (early)|Syskeyiapolis 1942/M1 Garand (later)
Machine Gunner- Browning Automatic Rifle/Bren LMG
Shotgunner- Shotgun
Rifleman- Syskeyiapolis 1900 (early)|Syskeyiapolis 1942/M1 Garand (later)
Rifleman- Syskeyiapolis 1900 (early)|Syskeyiapolis 1942/M1 Garand (later)
Rifleman- Syskeyiapolis 1900 (early)|Syskeyiapolis 1942/M1 Garand (later)
Your advice on this would be greatly appreciated.

And as a gift, some pics:
http://www.bayonetstrength.150m.com/Weapons/semiautomatic/M1_Garand.jpg
The M1 Garand- Ain't she a beauty?

http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/ithaca37hs.jpg
Ithaca 37 shotgun OK, so it's the new "Homeland Security" version. Still, the look may have not changed much, and YOU try looking for a pic of an original-model Ithaca 37 shotgun!

http://www.nfatoys.com/tsmg/images/thompson.jpg
The M1928 Thompson submachine gun

http://usmcweapons.com/articles/M249/BARposted.jpg
The Browning Automatic Rifle

http://www.12pulkulanow.com/images/bron/Bren1.jpg
The Bren LMG

http://www.b25.net/b25channelislandthm1.JPG (http://www.b25.net/b25channelisland.html)
B-25 Mitchell- click for larger image

God bless,

The Republic of Syskeyia

(Something of a nitpick in the context of nation states, perhaps, but I doubt Britain would have supplied aircraft to Syskeyia during the war, certainly not Spits early on, at least- I mean, you have to consider that it was quite newly into service and that Britain believed she was about to be invaded.. industry was hard pressed already, and Britain couldn't even keep up supplies to its own colonies, dominions, and established allies, leading to amusing tank-building efforts by New Zealand, amongst other things.)

OOC:
Nice to see you've been playing with history too, Syskeyia. :)

(Something of a nitpick in the context of nation states, perhaps, but I doubt Britain would have supplied aircraft to Syskeyia during the war, certainly not Spits early on, at least- I mean, you have to consider that it was quite newly into service and that Britain believed she was about to be invaded.. industry was hard pressed already, and Britain couldn't even keep up supplies to its own colonies, dominions, and established allies, leading to amusing tank-building efforts by New Zealand, amongst other things.)

Ummm. we got the license to build the things? :D

OOC:
Nice to see you've been playing with history too, Syskeyia. :)

Let me just say this: I may be expanding history, but I'm not changing it.

God bless,

The Republic of Syskeyia

You know, such an early victory would significantly change the way WW2 was fought...

I would suggest either: late invasion (Kinda like the japanese in 1944 in china, to exterminate US air bases, or 1945 in french- indochina), or, if it`s early in the pacific war, a successful invasion, followed by guerilla warfare from syskeyian forces.

I would suggest either: late invasion (Kinda like the japanese in 1944 in china, to exterminate US air bases, or 1945 in french- indochina), or, if it`s early in the pacific war, a successful invasion, followed by guerilla warfare from syskeyian forces.

Late invasion might be good.

As for early invasion, what about semi-successful invasion, as in, they get rid of a lot of syskeyian forces, but fail to take the capital, and then there's some kind of gridlock, as the Japanese prove hard to extract, and, well...

God bless,

The Republic of Syskeyia

Like the early invasion with gridlock, seem to recall something like that in Birma. Especially believable if the japanese use large parts of their original invasion force for other objectives in the pacific, thusly being too weak for further (successful) attacks in Syskeyia. Assuming (by the equipment mentioned) that Syskeyia was semi- dependant on foreign imports (military equipment), it would hold out for some time, regain some territory, and from beginning/ end 1943 on, start a massive counterattack, ending successful sometime in 1944.

The burmaesque war idea sound good.

Has anyone seen The Longest Day? Specifically, where the Army Rangers have to climb over that gigantic BUMP in Normandy? ;)

God bless,

The Republic of Syskeyia

leading to amusing tank-building efforts by New Zealand, amongst other things.)

OOC: Are you hassling our bulldozer tanks? :P

And BUMPing up and old thread. ;)

Anyway, I've resumed RPing, and here's Syskeyia's WWII as it stands:
Jan 1942- Japan invades Syskeyia via the north
1942-? Japan advances, controlling a large amount of northern Syskeyia
Japanese advance slowed, halted, and finally reversed in the jungles of northwestern Syskeyia
Sometime during the war, a Syskeyian assassin tries to kill FDR's mistress. He fails, and this results in the US stopping its shipments of weapons, equipment etc. to Syskeyia.
Truman becomes president, war stuff to Syskeyia resumed. However, Stalin secretly imported Communists into the Republic during the lack o'weapons impasse, so the army has to deal with that threat after kicking out the Japanese. (Which also convientiently explains why the Syskeyian army didn't go an kick Mao's rear after WWII :D )

As for airplanes- at the beginning of the war, Syskeyia mostly has P-40s and such, as well as a handful of Spitfire squadrons. Later on, it gets stuff like the Mosquito and the P-51.

Also, I was thinking about a possible European front involvement. You see, at Normandy there were Koreans in the German lines (Koreans captured by Japanese, Japanese prison camp w/Koreans captured by Russia. Russia takes Koreans to Europe, prison w/Koreans captured by Nazis. Nazis take Koreans to Normandy to help defend the coast against island invaders.) My proposed storyline would be similar- Syskeyian POWs are taken up north, where they are captured in a USSR-Japan border skirmish in Manchuria. They are then taken to Europe, where they are captured by German paratroopers, and then taken to Normandy to fight for the Nazis in one of their POW infantry units. The Allies overrrun Normandy, and the Syskeyian are freed. It is later discoverd that the number of Syskeyian POWs freed at Normandy is the size of a brigade. So the Syskeyians form a "Syskeyian Expeditionary Brigade" and fight across Europe, becoming big-time celebrities back home while they're at it.

What do you think?

God bless,

The Republic of Syskeyia

Let me just say this: I may be expanding history, but I'm not changing it.

So, um, where is Japan pulling the resources from to do this, then? You realise that such a changed commitment of forces would totally alter the events of the war in the Pacific, ja?

((he's not changing the size of the Japanese armed forces - just expanding it two or three times. :lol:

Come on, Syskeyia - I may not know anything about science, but I've seen enough Star Trek episodes to know that whenever you mess with history, it's changed. And inserting an entire country into world politics is a lot bigger of a deal than saving Edith Keeler's life. ;)))

OOC:
I own Japan, and I didn't attack anyone in the '40s (I think...), but here are some sites you might be interested in if you want to keep the war in your nation's history.
http://www.daveswarbirds.com/usplanes/american.htm
Find junky planes the US exported before the war, along with other planes.

http://j-aircraft.org/xplanes/
Japanese x-planes

http://www.bayonetstrength.150m.com/
Unit organizations and weapons

http://www.magweb.com/sample/ww2/japequip.htm
Equipment of Japanese and Chinese armies so you know what foreign vehicles you might have been able to buy

http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~dpohara/thaiarmy.htm
Thai army equipment 1940-1945 so you know more foreign stuff you might have been able to buy

Where in SE Asia are you, BTW? It's always good to know my neighbors...

((he's not changing the size of the Japanese armed forces - just expanding it two or three times. :lol:

Come on, Syskeyia - I may not know anything about science, but I've seen enough Star Trek episodes to know that whenever you mess with history, it's changed. And inserting an entire country into world politics is a lot bigger of a deal than saving Edith Keeler's life. ;)))

:lol:

Well, actually, yes. And I'm glad you brought up Star Trek, because I think I can articulate my philosophy toward the whole "RL history-NS history relationship" issue- you can change history as long as the general world history timeline stays the same (i.e., fighting Nazis= OK, sending in a million troops into Germany to prevent WWII in 1939= Not OK.)

Bascially, if the end results of your intereference in RL history is the same as the results of RL history, you're fine.

God bless,

The Republic of Syskeyia

Well, during WWII, Galdania was MUCH smaller (about the size of the former Yugoslavia). Galdania was partially occupied by Nazi Germany, but Nyiazkotroveskii freedom fighters continued to fight them until the Russian counter-offensive. Russian liberation came over the course of only six days. Galdanians welcomed the Russians, and Stalin welcomed another little ally. However, like Yugoslavia, Galdania remained a certain ammount of autonomy.

I am going to try this, *prepares thread* and nice idea, for those of you who propose it for NS-RL relations

Oh come on guys, it's free-form roleplay. Let it be. Syskeyia might've been a much smaller nation, population-wise meaning less japanese forces were needed to be deployed...

Go free-foam replay!

In WWII, Yakslyvania was neutral, but we had lots of Nazi collaberators, and some with Stalin too. All those communsit guys.

In WWII, LRR was a small chunk of India, near Bangladesh.

Perhaps we could send a brigade of troops (who would have evident british colonial and soviet influences), equipped with a motley collection of aircraft (hurricanes, Blenhiems, mabye some Swordfish) and armored cars (Swedish Lynxes, modified trucks, etc. etc.), transported on the navy's new one Tribal class destroyer and flotilla of "armed barges" (anything from sampans armed like PT boats to giant barges with artillery) to give you a helping hand against japanese imperialism. The armed barge, incidentally, is the LRRN precurser to the missile boat. In the 50's LRR got ahold of some Styx missiles and put 'em on the barges.

The LRRN has always had a use for PT/missile boats.

Well, actually, yes. And I'm glad you brought up Star Trek, because I think I can articulate my philosophy toward the whole "RL history-NS history relationship" issue- you can change history as long as the general world history timeline stays the same (i.e., fighting Nazis= OK, sending in a million troops into Germany to prevent WWII in 1939= Not OK.)

Bascially, if the end results of your intereference in RL history is the same as the results of RL history, you're fine.

First change involving any insertion of an NS nation into WW2 is you chop off the 'WW.' World War Two in NS terms if it happened at all was a scuffle between a few tiny, backward nations over a small landmass, certainly not a World War.

Um, also, here you've got better equipment than the US [since you're skipping Springfield rifles, M1 Carbines and the M3 and going with all-Garands], presumably still a semi-ludicrous population figure and yet the US is still cheerfully handing you military aid? And you have no domestically derived weapons at all? Let's not even mention all semi-automatics would make you the most technically sophisticated power in the Far East, or that the M1 Garand was most certainly not a beauty [personally I prefer rifles without features that can get you killed].

The simple fact here is that the main events of the Pacific war are only not changed because you're not bothering to think of what implications an entire additional front would have for Japan, or indeed that an extra modern military's existence would have for the war as a whole. History is a closed system in which everything affects everything else, there are no minor changes.

Seriously, I have no problem with people screwing around with history if they're at least honest enough to admit it, but pretending you can lever a whole invasion into Japan's military history without altering the Pacific war is absurd.

Oh come on guys, it's free-form roleplay. Let it be. Syskeyia might've been a much smaller nation, population-wise meaning less japanese forces were needed to be deployed...

Syskeyia has REPEATEDLY insisted real-life history is not to be modified in any way. And can you explain anything that would cause a nation smaller than Japan to increase to over 3 billion in fifty years?

I got around all this by having the Soviets allow rebels in Poland(the Crims) to make sure the Polish government did not interefere with the war against Nazi Germany. The rebels made secret payoffs to Russian military officials and then after the war invaded Chezkloslovokia, but smoothed it over with payoffs to Moscow. About 40 years later the big ass civil war ends and Crimmond emerges. Yay. I think I tried totoss something on about Berlin getting nuked, but that didn't go over well and I dropped that. So in the end, timeline altered, but not so much that ,ajor events cease to happen.

GMC, you're right about the early rifles. I came up with that conclusion while doing some more research on that topic before you posted. At first I thoguh, "OK, the M1 Garand came out in 1946 so I can use it early on." But that was wrong. So the Syskeyian soldiers started with Springfields, but as the war went on, they got Garands. And while the Garand is not a perfect rifle, it's darn better than a bolt-action. (Patton, Ike and Macarthur liked it, as well as a dang good number of US servicement.)

Also, I'm not against altrering history per se, I'm just against altering it too much. IMHO, having Japan invade Syskeyia is not going too far, having Lavenrunz occupy the Netherlands in the 16th century instead of Spain is altering it too much.

If you don't like that, fine, just fire your IGNORe cannon at me and let us go our separate ways. As long as I am not posting Any content that is:

* obscene
* illegal
* threatening
* malicious
* defamatory
* spam, than you, as a moderator, have nothing to worry about. Please just let me go my inconsistent, bigoted, god-modding* ways and stop cricitizing everything I do as if you have some malicious obsession with making my NS life a living hell. Thank you, and good night.

God bless,

The Republic of Syskeyia

*No, I do not think that I am inconsistent, nor do I believe myself to be bigoted or a god-modder. However, by reading GMC's remarks (both here and on other boards) one could imply that GMC believes that I possess the aforementioned vices.

GMC, you're right about the early rifles. I came up with that conclusion while doing some more research on that topic before you posted. At first I thoguh, "OK, the M1 Garand came out in 1946 so I can use it early on." But that was wrong. So the Syskeyian soldiers started with Springfields, but as the war went on, they got Garands. And while the Garand is not a perfect rifle, it's darn better than a bolt-action. (Patton, Ike and Macarthur liked it, as well as a dang good number of US servicement.)

Um, cyclic ROF of the Garand is 20 rounds / minute, you can fire 30 aimed shots / minute from a Lee-Enfield No. 4 bolt-action. The original 1936 Garand was an utterly useless thing overly prone to jams until the 1939 redesign, too. Lot of US servicemen preferred the Springfield, in fact. [ref: US Army Handbook 1939-1945 by George Forty, page 108] [Rifle refs Garand (http://world.guns.ru/rifle/rfl05-e.htm) and Lee-Enfield (http://world.guns.ru/rifle/rfl04-e.htm)]

Also, the girl goes 'ping' when you fire the last bullet if you're standing on a hard surface, meaning anyone in earshot can tell you're holding an empty gun. That's hardly a good thing...

As an addition, since you're being invaded wouldn't you be using a Sten / PPS-43 alike stamped steel SMG for most of the war to simplify production and cut costs?

Also, I'm not against altrering history per se, I'm just against altering it too much. IMHO, having Japan invade Syskeyia is not going too far, having Lavenrunz occupy the Netherlands in the 16th century instead of Spain is altering it too much.

But where do the extra soldiers who invaded Syskeyia come from? At least if an NS-nation takes the place of an RL one you don't have the problem of having to kill people who didn't die, use resources that weren't used and destroy tanks that were destroyed elsewhere. That's my opinion.

]If you don't like that, fine, just fire your IGNORe cannon at me and let us go our separate ways. As long as I am not posting <snip FAQ> than you, as a moderator, have nothing to worry about.

I'm speaking as another player, not a moderator. You're free to ignore anything I say that isn't prefaced with an official warning.

Also, I'm not against altrering history per se, I'm just against altering it too much. IMHO, having Japan invade Syskeyia is not going too far, having Lavenrunz occupy the Netherlands in the 16th century instead of Spain is altering it too much.

Actually, there is exactly zero difference between the two possibilities...

'cept that you don´t have a Japan player to agree with on past events to add some spice to your history... While Knootoss/ me, Knootoss/ Me/ NYNJ and so on have this.

Thusly... Errr...

You`re entirely wrong.

Actually, there is exactly zero difference between the two possibilities...

Um... no, My storyline does not deny the the Japanese campaign in Asia and the Pacifics, Pearl Harbor, D-Day, the Rape of Nanking, dropping The Bomb on Hirshima and Nagasaki etc., while your storyline denies that 1)Spain occupied the Netherlands in the 17th century (and the Dutch-Spanish war cost Spain a lot and consequently affected the Spanish empire in the Philippines, the Americas etc, 2)The English took New Amsertadam away from the Dutch (and why the heck would Der Angst forces rename New Amsterdam after an English city, pray tell?), and 3) Napoleon, not Der Angst, occupied the Netherlands during the Napoleonic Wars (the only way I'll ever accept your way of events if if you have the ghosts of Napoleon and his army rise up and take over contemporary Der Angst as an act of revenge- and even than I'm not sure I would.)

God bless,

The Republic of Syskeyia

Um, ok. Let's say an NS nation claimed to have sent extra forces to aid the Germans against the 101st Airborne at the Battle of the Bulge. Watch Band of Brothers again, and tell me which of those soldiers could be killed without changing every event that follows.

For want of a nail
the shoe was lost.
For want of a shoe
the horse was lost.
For want of a horse
the rider was lost.
For want of a rider
the battle was lost.
For want of a battle
the kingdom was lost.
And all for the want
of a horseshoe nail.

[...]

Now you may kindly explain to me why you quite literally f*ck up RL history, while I do... Well, no such thing.

You need to realise... To understand (Yes, I know, you´re quite incapable of it, but I forgive you) that I have a history based on other NS nations *gasp* and a couple made- up thingy's inspired by RL events...

Which doesn´t change anything in your beloved RL history.

You, on the other hand, use your inflated ego to go OMG HERO in RL events when there is absolutely no place for you or said ego.

Now, you may be able to realise that with your 'little involvement' in RL events you sort of... left the 'RL history' realm. Just like I did, like Knootoss did, etc..

There is no difference, 'cept that you do apparently lack the necessary imagination to add some spice to your history, thusly, you stay closer to RL events.

The only way to actually recognise RL history is to claim that some horrible disaster shook the earth on november 13rd, 2002, with new nations arising from the ashes almost instantly (Possibly filled with some alien devices and god knows what to explain magic nations, elves, gods, orcs, C'tan, demons, sci- fiction tech and so on)

What you did, with your whole emigration story etc. is changing RL history in more ways than you could imagine.

Since, ya'know... Ever thought about your presence in south- east asia basically exterminating/ radically changing the spanish/ dutch expansion there, chinese operations, japanese pirates, opium wars, vietnam and god knows what (Where did I leave my books covering that part of history? Would love to go through the events you 'respected' by basically changing all of it).

In the end, the only thing I can say is that your claim to 'Respect history' (Ridiculous, this is a game, we don´t need to respect anything) is one of the most hypocritical statements I have seen in NS.

Hear hear.

(I don't mind your story, Sys, but I think we should all just be allowed to do our thing.)

This could all be counterbalanced by saying that NS nations were clustered around the powers (Japan, US, germany, USSR, england, etc.) during world war two, or simply by not attempting to RP any RL battles. If Japan sent 300 troops to fight what was LRR (a slice of india), armed with older Lee-Enfields, Stens, old british armored cars, and relatively new (Hurricane, early spitfire) fighters, then I doubt the course of the war would be changed.

This could all be counterbalanced by saying that NS nations were clustered around the powers (Japan, US, germany, USSR, england, etc.) during world war two, or simply by not attempting to RP any RL battles. If Japan sent 300 troops to fight what was LRR (a slice of india), armed with older Lee-Enfields, Stens, old british armored cars, and relatively new (Hurricane, early spitfire) fighters, then I doubt the course of the war would be changed.

But where do these Japanese soldiers come from? Okinawa? Guadalcanal? Iwo Jima? What happens in those battles because they're not there? What happens to the friends and families they would have had, the diaries they would have written, everything they did and said and believed?

People aren't just numbers that can be reassigned at will; as Terry Pratchett rightly said in Soul Music, change the fate of one individual and you change the world.

Not RPing real life battles is fine. Hell, having NS nations replacing real-life powers in RL-alike history is fine. It's utterly unreasonable to expect players to come up with their own unique-to-their-history weapons and technology, religion, ideology and everything else if they don't want to. Having playerless RL nations as some invisible and unalterable force in the world, however, is totally ludicrous and the opposite of RP. It's also in utter defiance of the situation in NS; the US would be an insect alongside a militaristic NS nation, so having a history that places it as the most powerful nation in the world is rather counter-productive.

Yay for being stick-in-the-muds!

heh, you know, the only quibble I have with Syskeyia's history is that there's no corresponding NS history... and that could be made with a few twists here and there.

As for the rest of it, I don't care about changing history at all o.O If he's having fun, let him do it.

Nationstates is a game, and a game without many coherent official rules. Best to remember that and not be so pedantic.

Man, if all life was a party, some of you guys would still be finding the kitchen.

History demands this post remain.

As for the rest of it, I don't care about changing history at all o.O If he's having fun, let him do it.

Neither do I. As long as:

[a] You're honest enough to say that's what you're doing rather than coming up with some daft concept of 'adding to' history as if there's any kind of difference and

[b] You don't pretend that real life history does or should supercede NS history.

Is that unfair?

Sorry I haven't replied sooner. real life is busy.

Anyway, I woulda taken it for granted that you don't have to explicitly state that stuff here should change history but doesn't. The very existance of all these nations would have changed history, following your logic. No-one ever kicked up a fuss about the Chimaean involvement in World War 2, though I've mentioned it about... eight times to date. I certainly didn't have to specify anything--it was kind of accepted.

I get the impression some of you are bending over backwards to pick fault. Although this is admittedly funny, it's also tiresome after the first time.

edit: lmao, for example, please read what der angst has to say in his posts. I can use bold type too, and it makes my points so much more effective than plain text. :)

Tedious ad hominems aren't funny either, y'know, and 'appeal to motive' is a logical fallacy. Why an argument is made doesn't make it more or less valid in itself. Nice 'style over substance' with Der Angst's post too, mocking the presentation is much better than addressing the points he made.

And to be honest, if you've explictly written yourself into real-life battles without changing outcomes and claimed the same kind of policy as Syskeyia re: realism, you're just as bad as he is.

I haven't, but that's not the point. It's called a witch-hunt. I'm not saying you're wrong in any of your posts--if a pedantic is wrong then they're gonne be very embarassed.

I'm saying it's not a bad thing because NS is an entertainment. There's no trophies riding on this, no huge sums of money. We don't have our lives or careers at stake. Simply put, some of you care way too much about what people say or do within the game that it blocks you from enjoying it, and gets you all heated up. I mean not just annoyed, but from what I've seen on IRC, actually angry.

You know, I have no respect for the rules of logic--so fallacies aren't the way to argue against me, because my point would not be in arguying your opinions but why you hold them.

Also, I had no intention of arguying Der Angst's posts--I'm sure they're fine. But unnecessarily heated and driven, I think, by something other than the friendliest intentions. His bold type was plainly an effort to drive home something that's largely about as important as the colour of my jacket.

The basis of his or her very angry post is that Syskeyia's changing of real life stuff effects his own past. My answer to that would be: so what? There's thousands of players in this game and no consistant moderation of IC events or characters or anything, even economies. It simply doesn't matter--if you don't agree with something, then don't participate in the thread, or don't mention it, or ignore it. So he might indeed not respect history--but it still doesn't matter.

*Shrug* it's as I've maintained throughout.

MC Military Arms]Um, cyclic ROF of the Garand is 20 rounds / minute, you can fire 30 aimed shots / minute from a Lee-Enfield No. 4 bolt-action. The original 1936 Garand was an utterly useless thing overly prone to jams until the 1939 redesign, too. Lot of US servicemen preferred the Springfield, in fact. [ref: US Army Handbook 1939-1945 by George Forty, page 108] [Rifle refs Garand (http://world.guns.ru/rifle/rfl05-e.htm) and Lee-Enfield (http://world.guns.ru/rifle/rfl04-e.htm)]

Also, the girl goes 'ping' when you fire the last bullet if you're standing on a hard surface, meaning anyone in earshot can tell you're holding an empty gun. That's hardly a good thing...

Well, I think you could only get to the 30 aimed rounds-per-minute thing if you were a crack shot was also was an expert at that bolt-action thing. But your regular grunt? He'd get more shots off with a semi-auto.

To quote from here: (http://www.bayonetstrength.150m.com/Weapons/infantry_weapons_of_world_war_tw.htm):
Yet the drawbacks of such bolt-action rifles are obvious.* The very disturbance caused by working the bolt action necessitates the rifle be re-aimed after every shot, making it practically impossible to get two on the same target.* There are desperate seconds of vulnerability while the rifle is being reloaded between shots.* These problems were particularly noticeable during street fighting, where the enemy could suddenly appear a few yards away.* The cumbersome nature of the weapon did not lend itself easily to such encounters.*
With the adoption of the M1 back in 1932, the US Army became the first in the world to deploy a self loading rifle.* They were perfectly placed to manufacture millions of the type by the time war came, giving their soldiers and later Marines a terrific advantage in the field. [...] The volume of fire produced by the average soldier was staggering.* And ironically, that was perhaps the greatest failing of the Garand.* While Britain and Germany sought out new machine guns for their rifle squads, America looked at the Garand and thought they did not need such things.* Yet as impressive as the M1 was, it took a great many to match the fire of a single German MG34/42, as the GIs found to their cost as they slogged across Western Europe to Berlin.* In the Marine Corps, the M1 was used in a far more effective fire system, as discussed on* The United States Marines page.

As an addition, since you're being invaded wouldn't you be using a Sten / PPS-43 alike stamped steel SMG for most of the war to simplify production and cut costs?

Look at the first page. There the squad's sargeant is described as having either a Sten or a Thompson. Also, the reason why the Allies had to resort to such guns as the Sten as the "Grease Gun" is that the US, Britain etc. did not buy lots of said weapons in the pre-war period because they thought submachine guns were primarily gangster weapons. The Syskeyian government did not think so, and so bought lots of Thompsons in the '20s and '30s.

But where do the extra soldiers who invaded Syskeyia come from?

GMC Military Arms. You see, your people were so revved up by your constant hatred of my country that lots of them enlisted in the Japanese Army specifically for the invasion. ;)

I'm speaking as another player, not a moderator. You're free to ignore anything I say that isn't prefaced with an official warning.

OK. I think I will.

No-one ever kicked up a fuss about the Chimaean involvement in World War 2, though I've mentioned it about... eight times to date. I certainly didn't have to specify anything--it was kind of accepted.

Indeed. Personally, I think the Italian front might have been a good "area" to put Chimaean forces in. Kind of like Brazil in World War II (http://cliente.enersulnet.com.br/victorbarone/br/htm/feb.htm)- while the US and Britain (in their larger national memories) may not have remembered it, the countries that founght there do.

If you need any help developing your involvement in the Second Warold War, Chimaea, just ask.

God bless,

The Republic of Syskeyia

I can't actually remember where I put troops, but I think there were that many of them. Unless I get into a WW2 RP I don't mind that much.

Um, cyclic ROF of the Garand is 20 rounds / minute, you can fire 30 aimed shots / minute from a Lee-Enfield No. 4 bolt-action. The original 1936 Garand was an utterly useless thing overly prone to jams until the 1939 redesign, too. Lot of US servicemen preferred the Springfield, in fact. [ref: US Army Handbook 1939-1945 by George Forty, page 108] [Rifle refs Garand (http://world.guns.ru/rifle/rfl05-e.htm) and Lee-Enfield (http://world.guns.ru/rifle/rfl04-e.htm)]

Also, the girl goes 'ping' when you fire the last bullet if you're standing on a hard surface, meaning anyone in earshot can tell you're holding an empty gun. That's hardly a good thing...

Well, I think you could only get to the 30 aimed rounds-per-minute thing if you were a crack shot was also was an expert at that bolt-action thing. But your regular grunt? He'd get more shots off with a semi-auto.

To quote from here: (http://www.bayonetstrength.150m.com/Weapons/infantry_weapons_of_world_war_tw.htm):<snip two long, pointless quotes>

Try actually reading the Lee-Enfield link.

British soldiers were rigorously trained for both individual and volley fire marksmanship, and were routinely capable of firing 30 aimed shots per minute, which was quite a rate of fire for any non-automatic rifle.

Copy-pasting a quote on general differences between bolt-action and automatic rifles [which seems to be basing it's argument on the speed of the far slower Mauser bolt action] isn't helpful when discussing two specific weapons. Your semi & auto quote is also wrong, the Mexican army was the first to deploy a semi-automatic rifle, the Mondragon Automatic Rifle. In 1908.

As an addition, since you're being invaded wouldn't you be using a Sten / PPS-43 alike stamped steel SMG for most of the war to simplify production and cut costs?

Look at the first page. There the squad's sargeant is described as having either a Sten or a Thompson. Also, the reason why the Allies had to resort to such guns as the Sten as the "Grease Gun" is that the US, Britain etc. did not buy lots of said weapons in the pre-war period because they thought submachine guns were primarily gangster weapons. The Syskeyian government did not think so, and so bought lots of Thompsons in the '20s and '30s.

Even though they weren't being manufactured because everyone thought they were a gangster weapon? Are you saying your people outsmarted the entire world, or simply used your 20 / 20 hindsight? And why did Russia have to resort to junk like the PPS-43 even though they didn't think the submachine gun was a gangster weapon?


But where do the extra soldiers who invaded Syskeyia come from?

GMC Military Arms. You see, your people were so revved up by your constant hatred of my country that lots of them enlisted in the Japanese Army specifically for the invasion.

My people don't hate your country. They would feel sorry for it if it existed, but they don't hate it.

You know, I have no respect for the rules of logic

:?

Got something to say?

One of my friends is big on logic. I've studied it myself, and I reckon it touches a physical, material side of things--however I don't think that you can derive any deep satisfaction from logic. It's hard to say without a 3-page discourse mind you. That neither here nor there, but just in answer to your smilie face.

Logic is supposed to be used to evaluate the validity of arguments, not grant spiritual fulfilment. You can't derive 'deep satisfaction' from science or maths, either, but that doesn't mean you should simply discount them.

Yeah but he was using logic as a means to belief. That's some scary shit.

Anyway, as far as I see it, logic is of no real use, apart from a scholarly one. For example, it's a fallacy how parents bitch and moan about how they provide for you and so forth when you ask for something--however, it just makes it worse pointing out that it's a fallacy. I want you to give me a reason for my arguments (and insults :p) being wrong. Not being invalid.

My arguments might be invalid by logic--but this doesn't make my point that you all are being assholes for picking on Syskeyia any less true. I'm sure he doesn't find it as restive as you do, I think you once described it.

So tell me why I shouldn't discount logic?

You know, for claiming that you don't hate him, you sure act like it. All of you.

The fact that parents as authority figures don't have to let something being wrong stop them doing it doesn't mean that blatantly fallacious arguments are actually valid. It's also NOT a fallacy because they do provide for you.

I want you to give me a reason for my arguments (and insults :p) being wrong. Not being invalid.

If something is invalid it is wrong. Again, if the points I'm making are valid it doesn't matter if I'm making them because I'm an asshole or out of saintly goodness. If Stalin told you 1+1 was 2 the fact that he was Stalin would not change the fact that he was right.

My arguments might be invalid by logic--but this doesn't make my point that you all are being assholes for picking on Syskeyia any less true. I'm sure he doesn't find it as restive as you do, I think you once described it.

I suggest you reread this thread (And a couple others syskeyia posted in).

It was Syskeyia who picked on us (Specifically, Lavenrunz, Knootoss, me) for 'changing history', only to do exactly the same soon afterwards (Or rather, earlier, considering the Syskeyian history somewhere in the SATO boards), while defending his decision with faulty arguments.

You might not understand this, since it is logic, but... Sometimes, this sort of hypocrisy makes people, say, all so slightly angry.

And your own, flawed arguments sort of... don't change this fact.

It was Syskeyia who picked on us (Specifically, Lavenrunz, Knootoss, me) for 'changing history', only to do exactly the same soon afterwards (Or rather, earlier, considering the Syskeyian history somewhere in the SATO boards), while defending his decision with faulty arguments.

You might not understand this, since it is logic, but... Sometimes, this sort of hypocrisy makes people, say, all so slightly angry.

And your own, flawed arguments sort of... don't change this fact.

Well, IMHO, if you assume to claim a RL territory as your country, then you have the responsiblity of keeping that country's major history intact. You can't just go change it at whim. "Adding" facts (yes, I know, they technically do "change" history) is OK, just as long as the history is still "returns" to normal NS history. Think of it as two roads that begin as one, diverge from each other, but then resume as one road again.

For example, while it is possible (OK, maybe more than possible) that a Catholic nation in Southeast Asia in the 13th century would radically change history, but I've tried to "limit" the "damage." For example, if missionaries converted people from other lands, those people (for some reason) would wind up moving to Syskeyia, which 1)conveniently explains why Syskeyia never evangelized all of Asia and 2)keeps up Syskeyia's multiracial makeup.

Oh, and I'm using the Garand, and there's nothing you can do about it, GMC. :P

http://www.bayonetstrength.150m.com/Weapons/semiautomatic/M1_Garand.jpg

Even though they weren't being manufactured because everyone thought they were a gangster weapon? Are you saying your people outsmarted the entire world, or simply used your 20 / 20 hindsight?

Fine then, I take that back. Look at the first page- the sub-gunner used either a Bren or a Thompson.

And why did Russia have to resort to junk like the PPS-43 even though they didn't think the submachine gun was a gangster weapon?

Because they thought they needed a simpler gun than the PPSh41. :P

Your semi & auto quote is also wrong, the Mexican army was the first to deploy a semi-automatic rifle, the Mondragon Automatic Rifle. In 1908.

Correct. But the Mondragon had a lot of failings, and the Garand was better. :D

God bless,

The Republic of Syskeyia

The fact that parents as authority figures don't have to let something being wrong stop them doing it doesn't mean that blatantly fallacious arguments are actually valid. It's also NOT a fallacy because they do provide for you.

'tis indeed a fallacy, because it's an appeal to an unrelated subject. I can't remember the term in the correct wording but it's like an appeal to emotion. And as i said earlier, yes I know they're invalid--it doesn't matter.

If something is invalid it is wrong. Again, if the points I'm making are valid it doesn't matter if I'm making them because I'm an asshole or out of saintly goodness. If Stalin told you 1+1 was 2 the fact that he was Stalin would not change the fact that he was right.

See that's the problem--I say it does matter what your motive is. Not perhaps to the argument but to the fact that there is an argument present. See I can have an argument with my best friend and we'd still be friends afterwards right? But that's not a malicious argument, there isn't the background feeling of "I'm gonna stick it to the man at every turn because I don't like him".

Stalin can indeed say 1+1=2 and be perfectly valid and right too--but if he was taunting someone by saying that (for example, I suppose he could be insulting their intelligence--if he was on a message board he'd no doubt use this smilie after it: :roll: ) then Stalin would be an asshole and he would be wrong.

t was Syskeyia who picked on us (Specifically, Lavenrunz, Knootoss, me) for 'changing history', only to do exactly the same soon afterwards

So I went back and read the thread and realised--wait, GMC did start picking on Syskeyia, at least in this thread. You were polite and nice enough at the start, kudos to you. I haven't seen any other threads because obviously I'm not going to pick over the faulty boards looking for threads that I don't know the names of, so I'll take it on your word that Syskeyia did indeed 'start' the nitpicking. By that, I'll say he's wrong, and then I'll also say you're wrong too as you seem to believe that two wrongs make a right. If Syskeyia does it, then you can do it too right? Fair dinkum then.

If he protested about the Lavenrunz invasion of Spain (have I got that right?) then he's wrong to do so in this fairly silly game; he's even more wrong to criticise changing history while doing it himself (though I don't rate hypocrisy as a very high sin, but that argument is for another day). However, now this is what you're doing: you're criticising the fact that he's changed history after you seem to admit that you've done it yourself, and the reason you do so is because he did it to you and he was in the wrong.

Clear as mud isn't it? Smells just as good.

Why use the BAR?
Well, IMHO, if you assume to claim a RL territory as your country, then you have the responsiblity of keeping that country's major history intact.I totally changed Southeast Asia's history starting a few thousand years ago.
Oh, and I'm using the Garand, and there's nothing you can do about it, GMC. :PI don't think he's trying to stop you...Just show you it's not the best choice.
Fine then, I take that back. Look at the first page- the sub-gunner used either a Bren or a Thompson.The Bren is a machine gun. The Thompson was quite expensive...Could your nation afford it? *Looks at the first page* It says Sten/Thompson.
Because they thought they needed a simpler gun than the PPSh41. :PI read it's because it was too big and heavy for tank crews, recon groups, and paratroopers.

http://www.utu.fi/yt/8-2002/ewert9.jpg

---

Flower Power hippy activist George W. Bush disagrees, “Woah, mellow out! Live and let live man! If other nations want to do their own thing then let them! No need to bitch. If time itself suffers from strange dimensional disturbances because we’d rather lie down and have a smoke then that is just the price we pay.

This is the position your government is preparing to adopt.

http://img40.photobucket.com/albums/v123/Syskeyia/sys_b25.gif
http://img40.photobucket.com/albums/v123/Syskeyia/sys_p51.jpg
Why use the BAR?
Because it uses the same ammo as the Garand. Actually, maybe I'll just say that we had a special edition of the Bren made for Syskeyia, which accepted the Garand round.
I totally changed Southeast Asia's history starting a few thousand years ago.
*Fires IGNORE Cannon at Nianacio*
Oh, and I'm using the Garand, and there's nothing you can do about it, GMC. :PI don't think he's trying to stop you...Just show you it's not the best choice.
The Bren is a machine gun. The Thompson was quite expensive...Could your nation afford it? *Looks at the first page* It says Sten/Thompson.
Oops! I meant Sten. :oops:

Flower Power hippy activist George W. Bush disagrees, “Woah, mellow out! Live and let live man! If other nations want to do their own thing then let them! No need to bitch. If time itself suffers from strange dimensional disturbances because we’d rather lie down and have a smoke then that is just the price we pay.

There's just one thing- I have a policy of acknowledging a country's existence once I've RPed with it. Meaning, I won't go an say "thought I've RPed with Country X, now I'm firing my ignore cannon and consider Country X to be a mythical country" like SeOCC does. To say "Iv'e Rped with you" would be to understate things- heck, thousands of Syskeyians died on Knootian soil. So, if you go an make changes, you possibly could be forcing me to accept your skewered view of history as "historical" fact. I refuse to to that, but a quandary is created. See my point?

God bless,

The Republic of Syskeyia

*Fires IGNORE Cannon at Nianacio*1) I also changed the geography, so you might consider it new land.
2) Ignore cannons are back in fashion? :evil:

Why not just have a WWII tech nation v.s. nation RP?

That would be pretty cool.

Ignore cannons are back in fashion? :evil:Did they ever go out? :twisted:

Why not just have a WWII tech nation v.s. nation RP?

There have been quite a few. The biggest involved Iansisle, Calarca, Walmington on Sea, Chiang Maï, Der Kriegsmarine, Ercolana, and several NPC countries. It lasted from mid August to early December and had more than two dozen threads (the biggest of which was DK's 'Sinking of the Liberty').

Sys, I respect your right to have your own role play policy. I feel sad, however, that it’s so close minded, hypocritical, and limited. My policy has always been to role play with any and every one until proven unreasonable - be they fantasy übervampires, spacewank, history changing, or whatever. This is supposed to be a game - games are played to have fun. What fun is there in limiting your playing field to just those whom you judge to be nearly identical to yourself?

Flower Power hippy activist George W. Bush disagrees, “Woah, mellow out! Live and let live man! If other nations want to do their own thing then let them! No need to bitch. If time itself suffers from strange dimensional disturbances because we’d rather lie down and have a smoke then that is just the price we pay.

There's just one thing- I have a policy of acknowledging a country's existence once I've RPed with it. Meaning, I won't go an say "thought I've RPed with Country X, now I'm firing my ignore cannon and consider Country X to be a mythical country" like SeOCC does. To say "Iv'e Rped with you" would be to understate things- heck, thousands of Syskeyians died on Knootian soil. So, if you go an make changes, you possibly could be forcing me to accept your skewered view of history as "historical" fact. I refuse to to that, but a quandary is created. See my point?

That's...Um...Nuts. Why do you have to accept his history at all, again?

Did they ever go out? :twisted:Fortunately, yes...I think.
My policy has always been to role play with any and every one until proven unreasonable - be they fantasy übervampires, spacewank, history changing, or whatever.I don't RP with the first two, because I only RP with what I consider to be reasonable for near-modern (or past) times. Changing history is okay with me, because I see there being no history unless someone decides to bring it into NS.
[Off-topic observation that no one is supposed to reply to but I wanted to make anyway]It sure is empty here...[/Off-topic observation that no one is supposed to reply to but I wanted to make anyway]

Sys, I respect your right to have your own role play policy. I feel sad, however, that it’s so close minded, hypocritical, and limited. My policy has always been to role play with any and every one until proven unreasonable - be they fantasy übervampires, spacewank, history changing, or whatever. This is supposed to be a game - games are played to have fun. What fun is there in limiting your playing field to just those whom you judge to be nearly identical to yourself?

Yeah, I've played with "fantasy übervampires, spacewank" and nations like that. The only nations I exclude are pure godmodders, radical "history changers" and those who claim RL land that's already been taken by people I've RPed with. Case in point on the second type: in II a while back there was a nation that RPed a secularist dictatorship in Africa and the simmering rise of a revolt. While II has a reputation for awful RP, this palyer in fact was a very good RPer. Problem was, the revolt was in the Congo, which is claimed by Menelmacar (and I have RPed with said claim). So, while I have every OOC respect for the RPer of the secularist Kinshasa dictatorship, I've got to IC ignore him.

Oh, and I hope it's OK with Knootoss that I ignore his radical alteration of history.

And of course, with regards to a certain mod, I percieve a pattern here:
<Anything>
You're wrong.

God bless,

The Republic of Syskeyia

And of course, with regards to a certain mod, I percieve a pattern here:
<Anything>

You're wrong.

And it's worth making this observation why, exactly? If you're wrong, you should expect people to say so. Or do you think you can pass this off as some kind of vendetta on my part, so you don't have to refute any of my arguments?

You stated at the beginning of this thread you wanted 'advice.' Apparently you actually didn't, so I'll bow out with this.

Is everyone still here?

Is everyone still here?

I am.

Also, did you note the B-25 Mitchell (http://img40.photobucket.com/albums/v123/Syskeyia/sys_b25.gif) and P-51 Mustang (http://img40.photobucket.com/albums/v123/Syskeyia/sys_p51.jpg) I posted earlier in this thread. You can see I like drawing markings on aircraft profiles. :D They are in the standard Syskeyian markings for aircraft during World War II. I "researched" the camouflage by studying the camouflage for US Vietnam War aircraft, the camouflage of the 1940 RAF aircraft, and that of the "Flying Tigers." So I then came up with the camouflage you see on the planes.

Also, I've given some thought to developing a WWII-tech 2-seat fighter based loosely on the RFB fantrainer (http://www.luftfahrtmuseum.com/htmi/itf/rfbft.htm) Do you think such an aircraft would be feasible given WWII technologies and knowledge? It would probably have some bug nose guns and a turret in the back. Your advice is greatly appreciated.

As for my aircraft in the era, here is (at least some of) the types of aircraft used by Syskeyia in the war:
P-40
Spitfire
De Havilland Mosquito
P-51 Mustang
B-25 Mitchell
F2A Buffalo
F4F Wildcat
F4U Corsair
B-26 Marauder
A-26 Invader
PBY Catalina
(Perhaps) P-38 Lightning


Maybe I'll post more leter.

God bless,

The Republic of Syskeyia

Is everyone still here?

I am.

Also, did you note the B-25 Mitchell (http://img40.photobucket.com/albums/v123/Syskeyia/sys_b25.gif) and P-51 Mustang (http://img40.photobucket.com/albums/v123/Syskeyia/sys_p51.jpg) I posted earlier in this thread. You can see I like drawing markings on aircraft profiles. :D They are in the standard Syskeyian markings for aircraft during World War II. I "researched" the camouflage by studying the camouflage for US Vietnam War aircraft, the camouflage of the 1940 RAF aircraft, and that of the "Flying Tigers." So I then came up with the camouflage you see on the planes.

Also, I've given some thought to developing a WWII-tech 2-seat fighter based loosely on the RFB fantrainer (http://www.luftfahrtmuseum.com/htmi/itf/rfbft.htm) Do you think such an aircraft would be feasible given WWII technologies and knowledge? It would probably have some bug nose guns and a turret in the back. Your advice is greatly appreciated.

As for my aircraft in the era, here is (at least some of) the types of aircraft used by Syskeyia in the war:
P-40
Spitfire
De Havilland Mosquito
P-51 Mustang
B-25 Mitchell
F2A Buffalo
F4F Wildcat
F4U Corsair
B-26 Marauder
A-26 Invader
PBY Catalina
(Perhaps) P-38 Lightning


Maybe I'll post more leter.

God bless,

The Republic of Syskeyia

I miss the Gloster Meteor...

Also, did you note the B-25 Mitchell (http://img40.photobucket.com/albums/v123/Syskeyia/sys_b25.gif) and P-51 Mustang (http://img40.photobucket.com/albums/v123/Syskeyia/sys_p51.jpg) I posted earlier in this thread.I did. I didn't realize you colored them, though. :shock:
Do you think such an aircraft would be feasible given WWII technologies and knowledge?I think it could be built, but it wouldn't fare well.

I don't know much about planes :( good work on the colouring job though!

In the jungle, there's a very good chance you may BUMP your head... ;)

Anyway, if you look back on the first page, you'll see that I've "retconned" the squad a bit. My "original" squad was simply a WWII-ification of my current infantry squad. Now its more WWII-ish. One very noticable thing is the fact that one guy in the squad carries a shotgun. I saw a program on the History Channel that noted the Americans used a bayoneted shotgun in World War I and that the Marines found shotguns to be very effective in fighting Japanese up-close in the Pacific in World War II. As a good part of my country's fighting in WWII involved jungle combat, issuing a lot of shotguns would seem to make sense, so now it's the same rate as M203 per modern US infantry squad. :)

Anyone had any ideas as to what type of shotgun I might use? (Preferably modified to handle bayonets. :sniper: )

God bless,

The Republic of Syskeyia

The LRRAF used the following aircraft in the 1938-1948 era:

Hawker Hurricane, various models and local modifications, one of which involved mounting a Merlin engine on the Hurricane (Primary fighter type)
Il-2
Beaufighter
DeHavilland Mosquito
F4F Wildcat (a good deal of which were equipped with floats)
Supermarine Walrus

The average soldier was armed with a Lee-Enfield or Moisin-Nagant bolt action rifle or a Sten or PPSH SMG. Bazookas and domestic anti-tank rockets were also in widespread use, as were light high-velocity anti tank cannons.

As for tanks, the LRRA used:

The T-34
Humber series armored car
Bren Universal Carrier
Valentine Archer SPH
M-10 Tank Destroyer
M-8 Hellcat Tank Destroyer
LVT(A)4 amphibious landing tank, used by the LRRA as an APC and tank destroyer
M-8 Greyhound Scout Car
Lynx Scout Car

Using both Soviet and Anglo-American weapons, eh? How'd you get Stalin to get you stuff?

Personally, I'd love it for Syskeyia to somehow get its hands on a PPSh41 and then make a .45-caliber version of it. Seems like an excellent submachine gun- cheap and easy to make in vast quantities, yet both lethal and totally reliable (even in the dead of a Russian winter.)

That's all for now. :)

God bless,

The Republic of Syskeyia

Lend-lease, of course! LRR is geographically close to the soviet union, and in WWII LRR units fought for the Russians against the Germans. (Or so the story goes...)

BUMP.

Well, just thinking - I've decided that my primary rifle in WW2, once things start going my way, will be a native semi-auto rifle called the Syskeyiapolis 1942 (replacing the Syskeyiapolis 1900, which was basically a Mauser clone). It can, among other things, fire as many aimed rounds per minute as the SMLE, which makes it either better or worse than the Garand, depending on whether you're a Brit or an American. :)

Would write more, but I've got to go now.

I haven't seen anyone use the MAT-39. That's a fairly alien rifle to NS.

Eh, that last description of LRR forces during the WWII era has since become obsolete. I now consider the RDF equipped mainly with British equipment like the Hurricane, Spitfire, Tempest et. al. LRR exists in pretty much every tech level, although I've never taken much interest in magic and vampire RPs.

The standard service rifle would probably be the Lee-Enfield throughout the war, with some units possibly opting for the Garand. The Sten and Thompson M1928 are both common SMGs, and a handful of Lanchesters are also likely in service.

LRR actually won't fully convert from bolt-action weapons until the 1960s, finding the Ak-47 unable to replace all the SMLEs.

I've also adjusted some stuff, but Nianacio is still built on an alternate history, so I guess I'm still ignored...>_>

Two more links:
Forgotten Campaign: The Dutch East Indies Campaign 1941-1942 (http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/)
Armed Forces of World War II (http://www.members.tripod.com/~marcin_w/index-2.html) - has nations such as Lebanon and Bolivia

I haven't seen anyone use the MAT-39. That's a fairly alien rifle to NS.

Eh, that last description of LRR forces during the WWII era has since become obsolete. I now consider the RDF equipped mainly with British equipment like the Hurricane, Spitfire, Tempest et. al. LRR exists in pretty much every tech level, although I've never taken much interest in magic and vampire RPs.

Darn. I was hoping to get the T-34 tank from you.

The story arc would go like this:
Japan invades Syskeyia
Syskeyian soldier gets captured by the Japanese.
Said POW is transferred to the frontier of the Japanese empire for some reason.
POW winds up between LRR lines due to LRR-Japanese skirmish
Syskeyian POW/soldier gets freed, learns blueprints etc about the T-34, sends said plans to Syskeyia
Syskeyia builds T-34s.

I've been meaning to TG you about that for ages, but I never got around to it. Is it still a viable idea, or must I resort to mooching off the US Sherman production for my WWII armor?

Few things Sysk:

1) Ok, err, all that equipment? No, just seriously no, the way that the UK and the USA were stretched at the time would mean you would get bugger all, seriously.

2) Bending and warping History, where would Japan get the equipment from? and the manpower? They were stretched most of the time when they were winning, sod when they started to lose.

3) Perhaps you should try to make up your own history around the era instead of trying to interfere in the reality of it all, the fact you stick to history "or else" and then go off and write a fantasy war, or whatever suggests you're a tiny bit of a hypocrite.

Anyway, that vented, perhaps instead we could find $RandomEmpire [Midlonians were/still are Imperialistic]

A: $RandomEmpire invade Syskeyia due to $resource being available in that nation [something exclusive like even uranium would work]

B: Syskeyians fight back with old tanks, old guns [and I am talking 1920's stuff here, vickers MkII or similar only] and progressively lose.

C: In steps $Heroic_supplier who begin to train an officer cadre aswell as supply equipment to the belegured Syskeyians this is because of $reason

D:$RandomEmpire assault is halted at $greatbattle by the now well equiped Syskeyians

E:Syskeyians fight back and continue to smack back the $RandomEmpire forces untill a final stand/ceasefire/withdrawl by $RandomEmpire.

Few things Sysk:

1) Ok, err, all that equipment? No, just seriously no, the way that the UK and the USA were stretched at the time would mean you would get bugger all, seriously.

Three words: manufacturing under license. :)

2) Bending and warping History, where would Japan get the equipment from? and the manpower? They were stretched most of the time when they were winning, sod when they started to lose.

From Mysterious Resources of Ironic Convienience,™ which is also from which the Axis were probabvly able to fight, oh, Excablia, Chimaea, LRR, and other NS countries during WWII. :)

3) Perhaps you should try to make up your own history around the era instead of trying to interfere in the reality of it all, the fact you stick to history "or else" and then go off and write a fantasy war, or whatever suggests you're a tiny bit of a hypocrite.

Well, to do that would require a massive retcon of my backstory, as such RL events such as the Third Crusade, the Norman rule of Sicily, Sung dynasty China and the empire of Kublai Khan (descendant of Genghis, in case you didn't know) play a significant influence on Syskeyian history. Besides, I've RPed Syskeyia as being "somewhere in Southeast Asia," (which is why my country is in the region it is), so involving it in World War II would make sense. In fact, to leave it out of WWII entirely would be ludicrous.

In short, I believe embellishment of RL history != denial of RL events, and you're not going to convince me otherwise. So don't try to argue about it here.

But any other advice would be welcome. :)

Besides, I've RPed Syskeyia as being "somewhere in Southeast Asia," (which is why my country is in the region it is), so involving it in World War II would make sense.Sure. However, what doesn't make sense is giving Syskeyia a technology base that would make it a WW2 World Power, effectively enabling it to play the part of the US in the pacific, thus removing the US from the pacific battlefield, alternatively, cooperating with it and as such ending the war in the pacific in 1943 (or 1944, if you're particularly slow), with an invasion of Japan.

Of course, this would require Japan to attack despite its odds to win such a conflict ending up being dramatically worse than they were IRL. Which is, ya'know, unlikely.

As such, the little 'twist' in your backstory would end up preventing the pacific war to begin with. Imperial Japan stays the way it was, fighting in China, not even touching the Vichy holdings in Vietnam, its relations with the US strained but not actually reaching the point were war becomes a possibility, or rather, certainty.

Of course, this means that the US will take their time with an intervention in Europe. No Operation: Torch in November 1942. Stalingrad will have significant reinforcements, the German Airforce will be capable of protecting its transport planes a little better since the 8th USAAF wont be there, pressing the Germans in the west, this eventually resulting in the Sovjets taking one more year to win the war.

The Anglosaxon forces will thus have a chance to penetrate deeper into europe, Berlin and Munich will be nuked, no East Germany, Poland might end up joining the NATO in 1949, with Roosevelts death and Truman's succession, Churchill might get a chance to move british forces into Jugoslavia/ Bulgaria, preventing Sovjet dominance,the Sovjet Union fails to become a superpower, Mao fails in China, no cold war, the Sovjet Union collapses in the fifties...

Shall I go on?

And this is why equipping Syskeyia with cutting edge equipment of the timeframe in question is a fucking stupid idea. If you want to screw with history, do it in a way that allows for at least some credibility. British tanks from the twenties, French ww1 machineguns, etc..

DA, let me quote myself:
In short, I believe embellishment of RL history != denial of RL events, and you're not going to convince me otherwise. So don't try to argue about it here.
So stop arguing about historicity and stuff. Besides, as the nations you like to play are hellish dystopias with no redeeming qualities whatsoever, I'm not sure you're really worth listening to.

On another note, I've decided that the primary combat aircraft for Syskeyia (at least for the earlier section of the war) were the PZL P-24F fighter and the B-10 bomber. Which makes a bit of sense, as the PSL was exported by the Polish; the B-10 was sold to foreign countries by the US, and said bomber actually did serve in the Pacific Theater on the Allied sides during the early periods of the Pacific front.

Tech increase would occur once the US could ship stuff to Syskeyia, thus ending the Republic's isolation from the other Allies.

And here's some pics:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/Syskeyia/sys_pzl_p24f.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/Syskeyia/b10_sys.gif

In short, I believe embellishment of RL history != denial of RL events, and you're not going to convince me otherwise. So don't try to argue about it here.So, in short, you believe that, to name another example, equipping China with F 16 Fighting Falcons, Nukes, Ballistic Missiles and Aircraft Carriers in 1937 wouldn't change the course of history at all, yes?

Or, for a vaguely more 'realistic' example, Me 109, Ju 87, P III & P IV, 8.8 Flak... Actually, a not all that unrealistic example, as parts of Germany supported China over Japan. And China having all this to fight Japan would, of course, change nothing, according to your logic.

Now, I'll leave it up to you to realise just why your ideas are, essentially, fucking stupid.

So stop arguing about historicity and stuff. Besides, as the nations you like to play are hellish dystopias with no redeeming qualities whatsoever, I'm not sure you're really worth listening to.
Which has... Oh... Nothing to do with the issue at hand, the issue being that you fail to recognise the influence technology and numbers have upon the course of history.

Oh, and then there's the thing of you managing a million * or so ooc posts when actual, useful IC posts seem to take quite literally years...

* Slight exaggeration

Lets see what equipment any nation could buy or manufacture under license.

rifle: How about the SAFN or FN-49, developed by a Belgian engineer before the war and placed into production after the war(10 round mag, semi-auto) the man would have been happy to see his weapon produced. Belgium at that time was equipped with the Commisionsgewher 1888, simply because it refused to spend a dime on defense. But besides that it had BARs (Mle 30 (trente) firing the old 7.65mm cartridge) and MP28 (Mitrailette mle 34 produced by Pieper under license), sidearm was an FN Browining 9mm or GP35 as the Belgians called it.
For an aircraft you could buy Hurricanes, Belgium bought 11 of those and produced 80(or wanted, they never got further then 2 of which only one got machine guns) Hurricanes under license. The order of the Hurricane was a huge problem in Belgium because the industry wanted to see the R36 series from Alfred Renard produced. An aircraft that could reach a speed of more than 500kmh at 4000m and thus changelled the Spitfire and the Bf109.
If that wasnt good then you could buy the Fokker D.XXI, which was also used by the Fins or the Fokker G.I, bought by Spain but never delivered, the ones that were produced were used by the Dutch themselves. But you could produce them under license because Anthony Fokker was willing to give Production licenses at the right price.

As for tanks, i'd suggest you get yourself some French ones, Belgium had some excellent French vehicles (forgot the type) with a 47mm, or just do what the US did, take some foreign stuff and put it together.

Then you could produce Bohler guns like the Italians did and so on. Every piece of equipment can be delivered if you want without having to stretch any other industries.

Thanks, i_V, for some constructive advice.

Here's the general Syskeyia story line as it is now (roughly):
Pre-WWII: Syskeyia not happy with Japanese imperialism in Asia, but doesn't send troops or anything
Jan 1942: Japan invades Syskeyia from the north, as part of their overall "Strike South" plan in the Pacific
1942-1943: The first stage in the Syskeyian campaign. The Japanese advance and occupy much of the northern Syskeyian Kardja/Synora valley, stopped near Ankalina nad, more famously, in the northwestern Syskeyian jungle. Meanwhile, Syskeyia is isolated from material contact with the rest of the Allies due to the Japanese navy. A stalemate occurs. The standard Syskeyian rifle is the Syskeyiapolis 1900 (A Mauser clone, firing the Syskeyian .30/2 (7.62x63.4375mm round), and the standard warplanes are the PZL (fighter) and B-10 (bomber)
1944-1945: The turning point. A new semi-automatic rifle, the Syskeyiapolis 1943 (first issued in Dec 1943), comes into the hands of Syskeyian troops. Changes in the naval situation mean that Syskeyia can mooch off America and the other Allies for supplies and equipment. :) The Mustang (and perhaps the Hurricane, or some other common Allied fighter) replaces the PZL, and the Mosquito and B-25 Mitchell replace the B-10. Unfortunately, the Soviets smuggle in some Communist insurgents into the Republic, giving the Army something to do and convieniently preventing Syskeyia from doing something about the civil war in China. ;)

Placing yourself in a RL historical environemt is a fun thing to do, but altering history is a bit... weird. World War II is now as it happened, and therefore you cannot alter history just to give yourself a more prominent position in history books. For me NS started in Nov '02, same with the national histories of all RPing nations. Sure, you have write a background of your nation and how it survived both world wars, but active participation and even in a role where it's influence plays a significant part of the greater happenings, is not realistic.

I concur with DA.

Sure, you have write a background of your nation and how it survived both world wars, but active participation and even in a role where it's influence plays a significant part of the greater happenings, is not realistic.

Well, to everyone but Syskeyia, the Syskeyian campaign of the WWII Pacific Front is a disposable footnote, at most. :)

Yeah, I've played with "fantasy übervampires, spacewank" and nations like that. The only nations I exclude are pure godmodders, radical "history changers" and those who claim RL land that's already been taken by people I've RPed with. Case in point on the second type: in II a while back there was a nation that RPed a secularist dictatorship in Africa and the simmering rise of a revolt. While II has a reputation for awful RP, this palyer in fact was a very good RPer. Problem was, the revolt was in the Congo, which is claimed by Menelmacar (and I have RPed with said claim). So, while I have every OOC respect for the RPer of the secularist Kinshasa dictatorship, I've got to IC ignore him.

Oh, and I hope it's OK with Knootoss that I ignore his radical alteration of history.

And of course, with regards to a certain mod, I percieve a pattern here:



God bless,

The Republic of Syskeyia
I was not done yet. First off let me tell you that you do not need to ignore anyone because he/she has a nation that was claimed by someone else. How do you expect a new (but good) RPer to have some fun in a realistic envirement if all RL territory is owned by a group of old (and thus huge)) nations?
When you see someone RP in the Congo, accept the claim. See it as a parallell earth or just think that there is another continent in NS that is similar to the original earth (where everything is already claimed).
Why ignore good RPer just because they have a teritory that was already 'claimed'?

Then on with the weapons. For Artillery I'd suggest the Famous French '75', a gun from 1897 yes, and other guns certainly have a greater range but they are still good enough for the task in WW2 and there's more.
Strengthen the barrel, add a muzzle brake and produce AP shells and all off a sudden you have a gun capable of killing a T-34. The Germans placed them on PaK38 carriages (too light but as a stopgap solution, it was fine). Its certainly powerful enough to beat a Japanese tank.
The Americans used this gun for the M3 Lee and the Sherman so its a cheap and old gun but good enough to serve in WW2.
Next you could by some guns from the Skoda works. A 350mm for heavy stuff, a 220m, a 100m Houfnice as field howitzer suplemented by 47mm vz 36 AT gun. Half the Balkan used Skoda guns, the Italians had several thousand Czechoslovakian guns in service.
There are offcourse such other guns as French 105mm L13S guns or Buy a German 105mm Feldhaubitze from Krupp. I remember Turkey bought alot of equipment from the Germans, even Panzer IVs at one time. Or buy Bofors equipment and Stridvagn tanks in neutral Sweden.
In Infantry I can also recommend such weapons as the ZK383, a czech 9mm machinepistol, captured by the Germans and used by Waffen SS on the eastern front. Or 9mm Beretta machinepistols. a Suomi m35 machinepistol (9mm and very acurate at longer ranges which is unusual for such a weapon)
There are also lots of rifles that you could get like the Schmidt-Rubin, Krag Jorgensen, Wilhemina carabine, MAS36 rifles etc.
Really this list goes on for miles(although these are some of the best choices).

Adding: The M1 Johnson rifle with the internal 5 round magazine and the UD M'42, a fine sub-machinegun that was not accepted for service with the US army, The Marlin they called it. Its worth checking, really.

How do you expect a new (but good) RPer to have some fun in a realistic envirement if all RL territory is owned by a group of old (and thus huge)) nations?

You could do what a lot of players do and not claim real-life territory at all, thus avoiding the problem entirely?

You could do what a lot of players do and not claim real-life territory at all, thus avoiding the problem entirely?

As far as i'm concerned, there is no problem. If i want to attack a Germany player while I have germany claimed myself i will simply move out with a fleet as if i was attacking the UK(A player who claimed the UK) or any other nation.