NationStates Jolt Archive

(post removed)

((OOC: --Post removed at Siri's request for the time being--))

Out system sensor arrays, matching orbit Jupiter in its trip around Sol, registered with growing alarm the fleet build up inside the Jovian Sub-system.

It was reported to Fleet Command.

The massive holographic plot in the Central Command Center, deep under the Purple Mountain, was configured to Solar System scale.

Fleets were shown as simple icons, with exploded details displaying their known strengths and numbers. Orange for potentially hostile. Red for actively hostile, of which there were none, currently. The Federation was not at war.

Not exactly, anyway.

Blue icons, tinged with gold, represented the Menelmacari and Eternal Dawn Fleets. Solid blue was the color of the Triumvirate Forces. Yellow represented unknowns and known neutrals.

And green was the color of the Federation forces themselves. 11 small icons and 4 larger ones decorated the plot, along with the 3 green-gold icons of the Anglachel-class Stations. Tiny green icons sparkled through the system, representing Federation merchant vessels, already beginning to group up by government order, and sensor arrays.

A massive gold icon hung over Arda, representing Orm Embar.

The Federation Forces were almost all moving.

One Space Battle Group hung at the warp point, supervising the construction of the station there. Six were gathered in Mars orbit. Two were swinging in wide, behind Jupiter in its stately orbit of Sol, and closing in fast. The last two were moving to the points where the merchant marine was congregating.

Another icon popped into existence on the plot. The last space battle group, home from its exploration mission down the warp point. An ansible update was sent immediately, along with new orders. They moved to execute them.

The four large icons of the Task Forces swung in earth orbit, many ships still undergoing repairs from the recent conflict with ADK. But more than half were completely repaired.

Most of the battle damage to the stations had been repaired as well, though the Anglachel itself was still red tinged from combat damage.

Earth itself flashed green. The Defense Grid was online.

Then orange became red, and all Hell broke loose.

It was time for the Fleet's greatest secret to be revealed. The Confederacy's primary source of information about the Federation of Sentient Peoples.

Open war was upon the Alliance, and it appeared that the Oldest Enemy was moving to support the Enemy. This could not be allowed. The Oldest Enemy was simply too powerful, and would deny the Fleet the opportunity to intervene.

And so, the button was pressed. An ansible comm device, stolen in the chaos of the Fall of the Dor Lomin Regional Alliance, transmitted its very specific set of instructions.

And the Federation Fleet died in space. Every system locked up. Frozen.

It would not take long to repair, but it would be enough. Unfortunately, there were no Allies in position to take care of the Oldest Enemies immobility and defenselessness.

But the Federation could not interfere. Not until they had made changes.

The Fleet moved. Arcing up and around, split into two groups, the Fleet rapidly began eating up the surface distance as it moved to trap someone or something...

But it was spread out. The target was unclear.

[observation tag]

OOC: As the previous post disabling the Sentient Peoples fleet was made for OOC reasons, and was a piss poor idea at that, it is null and void.

Further, as a result of Currently Unresolvable OOC difficulties between myself and other people involved, both Lost Americans and Sentient Peoples are hereby withdrawn from the conflict.

~Ainu.

[Tag, as this thread is... relevant.]

Tag

(*Tag*)

Deep within the bowels of the Sketchian Ministry of Peace, a solemn meeting took place.

The Triumverate of Yut moves once again.

Yes, this time on Melkor.

This is none of our business. What happens to Melkor is of no concern to us.

What the Triumverate does is always our business.

What of the others?

They will do as they see fit.

We must take steps to contain the situation.

We cannot interfere.

We shall watch.

Their ships surround us. We must protect our interests.

They won't dare provoke us now.

What if they do? It is time to call her back.

It is not neccessary.......

Do it. Bring her home.

===============================================

Floating in the vast darkness of deep space, a gargantuan vessel and her caretakers comes to life. Running lights flicker on, weapon systems run calibration checks, system diagnostics give all clear signs. With a surge of power, ancient engines once again flare up with fiery brilliance. An automatic navigation computer methodically counts down the seconds to the FTL jump; no one is around to witness it. With a silent flicker, the majestic vessels of old disappear from realspace.

Justice shall return to Sketch

Deep in the bowels of Octagon, the Armed Forces HQ of Clairmont, business was going on as usual for the thousands of low ranking officers. But for First Space Lord Thomas Caparelli and Second Space Lord Patricia Givens, there was nothing usual in this day.

"The Intel is quite solid. The Triumvirate is moving against Melkor."
Givens stated with an analytical tone while gazing at the hardcopies of intel on the table.

Caparelli took a quick look at the holo-tank, representing the sol system and the latest fleet movements of the Triumvirate.
"We knew that was coming."

"Yep. But the question remains, what do we do about it?" The Second Space Lord asked curiously.

"Hmm, from what i've been in contact with our Allies, most notably the Santa Barbaran military, this would be an excellent opportunity to kick the Triumvirate to the groin." Caparelli stated.

Givens took a few quick glances at the pieces of hardcopy and another quick glance at the holo-tank and agreed.
"I concur. But we are still walking on a mighty thin ice. The CSN is still taking its beginning steps in terms of hardware. Sure we've got Rear Admiral LePic's Task Group at Mars but thats the heaviest force we've got."

Caparelli agreed with Givens. He knew the realities, he knew that the weight of metal in the CSN was still far from what they truly needed. But, he also knew that they wouldnt be in it alone, as did he know that the most important space assets of the Protectorate did have protection even without the ships.

"I know that Pat, but i also know the benefits of this operation if we take it. And we really dont need to worry about the protection of our space assets. Im sure you remember that we have the Vanguard watching over Hephaestus ?"

Ofcourse Givens remembered. She was the head of the entire military Intelligence asset of the Protectorate, how could she somehow forgot a 52 million ton Fortress watching over the nations greatest concentration of industrial might.

"Sure, and i'd be willing to put my money on the Fort defending the yard against anything short of a full Battle Squadron but thats not what im worried about, im worried about losing the foundation of the Home Fleet."

"You cant make an omelet without breaking a few eggs Pat. And besides, im not saying that we should send LePic to nuke Triumvirate assets on the Sol System right on the spot, im saying that we raise our state of readiness and keep a close eye on the progress of things. If the conditions become the right ones, then we'll act." The First Space Lord explained to his friend.

Givens sighed and gave in.
"Allright, i agree on that."

FROM THE SCOLOPENDRAN OFFICE OF OUTLYING COMMENTS (OOC)

As you may have noticed, this has somewhat blown up. Anyone who has been in the #nationstates IRC room on EsperNet over the last week probably knows exactly how much bitching has already happened.

Melkor, Kalessin, Menelmacar, and I (and whomever else we need) are going to attempt a Diplomatic Solution (TM) and come up with a real plotline to this that will hopefully make everyone happy.

If that fails, then this will continue to spin out of control with mind-bending gold-plated dragon-teleporting Texases having to deal with multimegaton nuclear weapons being transported into tunnels and all sorts of crazy nastiness that no one will enjoy and will make us all look very bad.

This is thus a request to cease posting until we come to some sort of conclusion. I.G.N.O.R.E. cannon operators are standing by to take your calls with maximum violence.

OOC: No offense Scolopendra, but would others be allowed to play?

OOC:

I've actually not seem much bitching. There were some people being a little pedantic with regard to the AFC (resolved) & Kale's Horizon evacuation needs tweaking, but other than that...

You're all so afraid of a bitchfest it's as though you're determined that one must happen. I'd like to get on with my response to Menelmacar- you can fix up another disasterous "plotline" of Sketchian proportions on your own if you like.


EDIT- I've changed my mind on this matter since posting. I leave the original content of this message up as a show of good faith.

OOC: Regardless of what everyone thinks of the bitchiness or wankery of the situation, there have been some significant points brought up OOCly that require resolution before things can proceed.

Scolo will speak for us; most everyone on the Triumvirate side agrees to that. And he needs to speak with Melkor. Unfortunately, their schedules haven't coincided over the past couple of days, but that should change soon. Because I, for one, will not play with individuals attempting such actions as I've seen. Bitchy? Sensitive? Probably. I shan't name names. But I'm seeing a lot of stuff coming out of left field that make me scream foul, and I'm not alone. Open RP requires cooperative RP, and when people aren't cooperating there's just no RP.

Sorry, folks. We're just not going to recognise any actions taken until this has been cleared up. With luck we'll be able to continue on at a reasonable pace.

OOC Being fully acquainted with paradigm clash, I am sympathetic to the Triumvirate of Yut in this. However, given that they have one of the singly uber-techist paradigms in the system...
... suffice it to say that while 'naming names' isn't a good thing, bringing problems out for reasonable discussion is a good thing.
We can hope for a peacefull resolution so we can begin the war :)

As for the Ic bit... its preperation, rather than action.

IC
<Portion of Post removed to be placed in the main thread>

OOC:

Well I know it's a hold off, but since my station actually fired and I took the 'what happens' part off as I redid the calculations (thanks Tsaraine for pointing out my flaw), er, firing follows. I'll put it here so people a) spot it and b) don't accuse me of editing the post in which I fired.
Well, that's nice. Still, we haven't come up with a solution ourselves, now, have we... and you ignore most of us anyway... so...
I.G.N.O.R.E. cannon operators are standing by to take your calls with maximum violence.IC
<-snip->
Same goes for you, I'm afraid. The entire idea behind a cessation of posting is to... well... cease posting. The less people who jump aboard before we get things settled means the less instability we have to work out. If people just keep jumping in, "just preparing" or no, then it will become well-nigh impossible to fix, neh?

I'll reiterate to everyone who thinks "oh look Scolo's telling us to be quiet when he's a bitcher" *glares meanacingly at a particlar person who doesn't seem to be trying to help at all* this is a multilateral attempt at a joint consensus. People from both of the concerned sides are getting together to discuss it, and silence doesn't mean that we're not doing anything. So please remember that patience is a virtue. Thanks.

OOC:

Well I know it's a hold off, but since my station actually fired and I took the 'what happens' part off as I redid the calculations (thanks Tsaraine for pointing out my flaw), er, firing follows. I'll put it here so people a) spot it and b) don't accuse me of editing the post in which I fired.
Well, that's nice. Still, we haven't come up with a solution ourselves, now, have we... and you ignore most of us anyway... so...
I.G.N.O.R.E. cannon operators are standing by to take your calls with maximum violence.IC
<-snip->
Same goes for you, I'm afraid. The entire idea behind a cessation of posting is to... well... cease posting. The less people who jump aboard before we get things settled means the less instability we have to work out. If people just keep jumping in, "just preparing" or no, then it will become well-nigh impossible to fix, neh?

I'll reiterate to everyone who thinks "oh look Scolo's telling us to be quiet when he's a bitcher" *glares meanacingly at a particlar person who doesn't seem to be trying to help at all* this is a multilateral attempt at a joint consensus. People from both of the concerned sides are getting together to discuss it, and silence doesn't mean that we're not doing anything. So please remember that patience is a virtue. Thanks.

and you ignore most of us anyway...

b) I don't have anyone in the conflict on ignore. After the Sketchan war I made a post saying it was bad form and ignoreworthy to post casualties; the only nations I have on ignore however are <Automagfreek>, <The Resi Corporation>, and <Kormanthor>.

TAG!

The war thread has been moved to here.

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2738731#2738731

TO REITERATE THE RULES
Posting observation tags is okay
Post IC information ONLY WITH PERMISSION FROM MELKOR OR SCOLOPENDRA
OOC information goes in THIS OOC THREAD. Very very very small notes are allowed in the IC thread, but the IC content of the post must exceed the OOC content.

Shine on, you crazy diamonds. I need to sleep.

OOC:

Sweet. I'm in. I'll try and be on my least offensive behaviour (i.e. I shall exercise tact).

Firing post altered due to expressed concerns that I had acted too fast (the "few hours notice" I mentioned in the earlier post having happened in the space of time it took some people to just speak), and because no-one else had posted after I fired so it can't possibly upset IC actions.

I'd also like this opportunity to request a neutral party to whom I can confide my things (i.e. things not deployed yet) should they become relevant. This will avoid the arguments had with Vegana.

OOC Glad to see a resolution has been reached and I look forward to following the plot :)

My part in this mostly comes from WV's adventurism (again), but nonetheless if anybody pursues an attack against either him or his region: I am one of the people there to meet it as part of the DAMOCLES treaty. I have no space ships, as such, but can certainly project my influence into earth orbit.

Summary of above: Can I post, please?
I'll be fairly quiet until such a counter-invasion might happen, but I'd like to put that post out into full view. (ego talking here :) )

----------
Thoughts, fears, hopes, tears...
Tarrican out.

Does this mean that the bitching has ended, and it is safe to go back to #nationstates now?

This has been a OOC Thelasi tag

[tag]

ooc: First off, Thelas - at least try not to be such an ass. Second off ... tag for keeping track.

{Tag; For Intelligence Purposes}

This space to be a post before long.

Also I'd like to strongly recommend Sketch for the thread. I've spoken to him already myself, & the Justice battlegroup is valid even for those who look on the Tito-Europan conflict as having resulted in Sketch's conquest.

I'm not entirely certain what is going on now. As I understand, there is still bitching in IRC, Scolo and Melkor haven't had a chance to talk, and there is some dispute with WV over firing sequence and if it really even matters or not.

So let me be the first to offer the Wazzu NationStates OOC Diplomacy Service!

You see, OOCly, I like the company of most involved. I get along well with those I know in the Yut, Arda, and Devils Desert game blocks. I'm an easy going guy OOCly, go figure!

Really though, I respect the RP ability of all of the leaders and most everyone else in this attempted RP. I understand that a lot of people are really pissed off at each other and that I am in a position to mediate.

Actually, I am in a position to gofer. If anyone would like me to talk to "the other side" in a diplomatic way that won't end in an OOC bitchfest, just ask me to talk to them. It pains me to see so many people I respect at each others throats over what should be a great RP.

--------

There is one thing I can unfortionately not do. I can not cover WV's request to hear what everyone has so no one pulls anything out of Uranus...err, that is, pick your claimed solar planetary body. There is a very good reason for this, Wazzu is hopelessly tied into everything.

Because Wazzu has always tried to remain neutral (and secretly but always failingly to make its own political-economic block), it is smack dab in the middle of this war with nowhere to go. It would rather avoid all this unplesentness and get back to (profitable) private buisness, but it stands on a knife edge between everyone without even an invite in! (yet)

Because anything could change that and push Wazzu solidly to one side or the other, I can't listen in OOCly on what everyone has. I simply can not guarentee that I won't subconsiously use OOC knowledge to IC benifit (even though I try very hard not to).

I'm sorry, you'll have to find another rubber gloved Uranus probe.

That's alright you only needed to hear about the stuff I had. It wasn't an intergalactic cavity search :o

I have been told second-hand that I am permitted to post on the thread... thus I have done so.

However, it might be nice to be told so personally (in a telegram, say). I am not entirely dependent on Whispering Voices for my opions in this game. (heck, on record I've betrayed him at least once. Oops, er... shouldn't have mentioned that should I?)

I have to admit that I am a little bit confused by what is going on. If a plotline has been established, are we to consult one of those who worked on it (Sauron, Melkor, Kalessin, Scolo, Menelmacar, and someone else I'm forgetting right now...) before we post? :?

The plan's been changed a little, leaving Scolo, Nathi and Sauron in need of an update so consult Melkor, Siri or Kalessin before posting.

Scolo's been briefed. Only peron that needs an update to my knowledge is Whispering Voices. Well.. yeah. And Sauron.

Scolo's been briefed. Only peron that needs an update to my knowledge is Whispering Voices.

So can I post freely, or should I consult you, Kalessing or Sauron first?

Scolo's been briefed. Only peron that needs an update to my knowledge is Whispering Voices.

So can I post freely, or should I consult you, Kalessing or Sauron first?

Get on IRC bugger :P

Come into IRC and ask Kalessin, Melkor, Siri or Scolo - or TG if you can't get into IRC.

Come into IRC and ask Kalessin, Melkor, Siri or Scolo - or TG if you can't get into IRC.

*Thwaps Kale*

Most of the stuff in The Plan is mine, as well.

*Grumbles*

<tag>

Well now.

I know I'm not the most liked player on NS, and I suppose i don't blame y'all. So here I am to offer a needed explanation before somebody goes nuts.

Yes, I've posted on the IC thread. Yes, I have permission from Melkor. Ask him yourself.

On a lighter note, I'm back after an extended leave of absence, and it's good to be back too! :twisted:

I can vouch. He's my brother *nods sagely*

We're carrying out a SL thats been in the works for a while now, so I'd appreciate it if you would all just let it happen as part of the Plan. It'll be fun, we promise.

[postTAG established by the National Intelligence and Security Agency of Konania]

And.. um.. freck, I didn't get permission to post. But seeing as I haven't been yelled at yet, I'll take it as a good sign...

Erm... given that whole "peaceful until provoked, the DEATH TO YOU ALL!" attitude that the Snel've got goin' here, and the whole nuking Mars thingy, it seems Ganymede Node should be attacking something right now. Yes? No? Eh?

I would like to reconfirm that I do indeed have permission to post icly on the other thread. There seems to be some confusion on that point.

It's not merely a question of being allowed to post.

You need to tell one of those who know the plot what you're doing first, so that we can check that it won't disrupt The Plot.

The Plan (which is pretty lame) can bend slightly, surely? So far as I know Sketch is in with WV in kicking Titan whilst distracted. So it fits fine.

OOC:
Damn... I applied with Nathi who said she'd discuss it. But can I join or not? *asks here then*

ooc: first off for some clarification on the Mars bit. These two situations are supposed to be running concurrently, but Mars has clipped along while this has not.

Quite frankly, you're hours and hours if not a day or two, in advance of where we are presently, so regardless of your rather strong feelings of revenge there, I'm afraid, in my not so humble opinion, you'd need to wait, if we're to keep as true to what's what as possible.

Most of the stuff in The Plan is mine, as well.The Plan (which is pretty lame)
All except your parts, I bet. Which, by your admission, is most of it.

I don't mean to be snippy, but we're having trouble keeping solidarity without the disparaging commentary. Please help us to make a united front, come up with a better idea, be quiet, or leave. You've been helpful in the past, and I expect you to maintain that standard and hope you do not disappoint.

Well, the part about it being mine was mostly tongue in cheek. I wouldn't presume to be quite so arrogant, otherwise :wink: . I suppose, if I wanted to be really high-horsey, I could claim I was trying to make the most out of a poor premise.

& I'm not trying to be overly negative, but as I'm sure you're aware, parts of it are sadly lacking & seem very forced. The fact that trying to get meaningful information out of certain parties is similar in nature to trying to draw blood from a stone is becoming a little wearing, as well.

OOC:
Damn... I applied with Nathi who said she'd discuss it. But can I join or not? *asks here then*

*cough*
Ahem.

& I'm not trying to be overly negative, but as I'm sure you're aware, parts of it are sadly lacking & seem very forced.
Thank you for bringing this up now, in public, instead of while we were trying to write it together in private.

Brought it up many a time. Very difficult to wring anything out of "certain parties".

And yet when we finalized this version, I failed to hear any complaints. How odd... *frowns* This isn't getting us anywhere. Are you in or are you out?

[hmm, guess I should ask someone what this plan is... though I don't think Raugher will do anything to disrupt it]

Look, you know I'm in. You also know that whilst, as aforementioned, I put together much of that Plan, I wasn't on when details were finalised & the Plan was subsequently put out, meaning I couldn't comment & have as a result already had something I had planned on doing made impossible by the fact of the Burning Sky (I gave Melkor that name, incidentally) being stuck up before people who were well aware I should be briefed bothered to say anything.

Even when I've got the "certain party" on the line in IRC it is nigh on impossible to wring even the slightest bit of talk, never mind information, out of the individual, who seems to insist on talking down to me & willfully withholding information.

THAT is what has led to my perfectly justified "disparging commentary".

This isn't getting us anywhere.

You know, despite my every effort, that's exactly how I feel. You want solidarity, you can start being a smidge more helpful.

Well, as long as it hasn't all been hinged on one person who isn't told the plot again. That would just be retarded.

the fact of the Burning Sky (I gave Melkor that name, incidentally) being stuck up before people who were well aware I should be briefed bothered to say anything.

Give me a break here. This storyline has been dragging like a dead horse since it was open. And you've been online at the same time as Melkor in the interrim. Sorry boyo, not gonna buy this.

Right now, the only problem I can see is your contentious attitude, and it's going to end up getting us nowhere. I find it interesting that you choose now, when your defacto leader is unreachable for comment and or input, to bring all this up - we all know Melkor's out for the weekend.

This sort of arguing will get us all nowhere, nor will spiteful little commentaries that add nothing to the discussion (no names in particular there *ahem*).

If you feel insufficiently briefed on the matter, take it up with Melkor and Kalessin, don't start with the abuse here on your opposition. I think we've all had to stomach enough of this sort of thing as is. Believe it or not, some of us would like to be able to continue playing together when this is all over - which was the whole bloody point to trying to work this all out, rather than let it fly into chaos and mass ignores.

At this point you're either part of the solution, or part of the problem. I'd hope, given your earlier involvement AND approval, seeing as you WERE provided with a complete log days ago and we've seen NO dissention til now, that you would wish to be the former.

I suggest you table this til you can speak with the boys in charge on your side before this gets any more tense than it already seems to be.

--Nathi's Player, who despite some opinions really would like to see this work out.

Why look, it's Nathi, butting in with some snide remarks & a condescending attitude where she isn't wanted or needed. There's something you don't see nearly every day :roll: .

This has been worked out privately, & I wasn't addressing you, regardless. Further, there's no reason why you would have heard me voice any discontent because you are not one of the parties I have been directed to.

JESUS H. CHRIST, I'M SORRY I BROUGHT THIS UP

Look, all I wanted to do was make sure that I'm good to go. I have spoken to both Melkor and Scolo about my involvement (via IRC). I have told them both of my "plans". And yet I still got the cold shoulder when I tried to make sure that my next post wasn't gonna mess anything up. Everyone here is trying to play the cards so close to their chest, they can't even see how many cards they got in their hand.

How about ya'll grow up some and stop blaming each other for something that is obviously a collective effort?

BTW, I am with WV and company. Whatever they do, I'll be doing.

- a very frustrated Sketch

JESUS H. CHRIST, I'M SORRY I BROUGHT THIS UP

Look, all I wanted to do was make sure that I'm good to go. I have spoken to both Melkor and Scolo about my involvement (via IRC). I have told them both of my "plans". And yet I still got the cold shoulder when I tried to make sure that my next post wasn't gonna mess anything up. Everyone here is trying to play the cards so close to their chest, they can't even see how many cards they got in their hand.

How about ya'll grow up some and stop blaming each other for something that is obviously a collective effort?

BTW, I am with WV and company. Whatever they do, I'll be doing.

- a very frustrated SketchIt is worth noting that a good many of us are pretty busy (say scolo with approx. ten hours of Aero-Astro work. I'm in the same class), so perhaps thats why you and Lord S are having hard times getting any info. Some of the main players here have far more pressing RL matters than this, so sit down, be patient, and relax.

<deat till later>

Even when I've got the "certain party" on the line in IRC it is nigh on impossible to wring even the slightest bit of talk,
.
We're busy with a real life that, like it or not, takes precident over NS. Frankly hounding us because we're not responding, because we have hours of homework and studying to do, not to mention dealing with a teacher who is a certifiable tyrant, is not helping move things along.

RL first, then NS.

Another note:
FTL exclusion zones are up in Saturn space.

A minor point:
But even its death provided clues. The time of the strike and angle of entry through the atmosphere, all recorded by orbiting satellites, combined with Titan’s orientation and location would shortly provide an approx. trajectory of attack.
Yes, I am probably being nitpicky, annoying, and pedantic, but you do have the solar system's (if not the galaxy's) largest and most accurate omnidirectional telescope right next door. I would be extremely surprised if PANTOCLES couldn't pinpoint the origin fairly quickly. Which is much better information than just an approximate trajectory.

Don't come the "I have IRL commitments that are keeping me busy!" with me. No-one's buying it, especially taking account of the fact that a person can actually be on IRC for hours & yet still manage to shed precisely zero light on any given matter. Seemingly deliberately.

Sorry to Nathi, by the way. That was uncalled for.

Eniqcir, for storyline purposes, the Trium doesnt know exactly where the blast came from at first. I have to clear up the latest amendment to the Plan [tm] with WV, but if it goes through, the Imperium finds the gun first.

Yes, you should reasonably know pretty much right away where the blast comes from, but in situations like this, it's nice sometimes from a storyline perspective to have all the OMG UBAR-stuff screw up a little bit. Its no fun when everybody's shit works perfectly 100% of the time.

Yes, you should reasonably know pretty much right away where the blast comes from, but in situations like this, it's nice sometimes from a storyline perspective to have all the OMG UBAR-stuff screw up a little bit. Its no fun when everybody's shit works perfectly 100% of the time.
Perfectly understandable, but it would be nice to at least have some mention of attempting to use the UBAR-stuff, and then being mad about it not working.

well then feel free to post to that effect :P

I'm not particularly interested in The Plan, to be honest. It's decided without me being present, and Yut seem to be making every effort to conceal the fact that it's blatantly going to stretch credulity beyond breaking point to ensure that everyone ends up attacking my space station.

When I get involved in having a decision for the outcome of the 'plot', call me. Otherwise, I'll just post away happily without a care in the world.

As for trajectory and beam, well it's travelling at ~c, so information during transit will be minimal. It's colourless (due to being individual hydrogen atoms), focused (no fall off, so hard to measure), and not really spottable with optical technology or gravimetrics. However, if all you're interested about is trajectory (which is hard to tell since Bers deleted his post before I saw it), it'll be damn easy to match up patterns of damage on the ringworld to get a rough idea of where the base is.

(And of course it's automatically our fault...)

Okay. This one is for WV. It is a multiple-choice question; not short-answer and not essay. Please respond with the letter that describes the answer.

Are you firing at:
A. The rock mentioned in your post clipped by one pulse (out of "oh so many"), thus making this another practice shot.
B. The Ring, thus making this the shot.

Requoting the post is not a valid answer.

I take your condescension, and I raise you a "read the post, lmao".

In baseline, primary school terms, this would be a "B". Time to see what incredulous reason is the current plot for getting both sides to attack me! (Yes, Melkor ... I HAD YOUR WIFE! bwahaha!)

And yes, it is Yut's fault Yut refused to tell me the plot. I don't see anyone else controlling your actions.

<Post edited to remove sarcastic element in order to not turn this into a flamefest.

More scoobiesnacks plx.>

EDIT:
Um
Not sure what PANTOCLES is but if it's a giant space array thing it would be able to get trajectory dead simple just by lining up the rotation of the ringworld and the initial damage scar (assuming it gets intel from the ringworld). No idea what sensory stuff Melkor has but whatever it is it'll be lucky to get that info first.

Pardon me, but your post was so incredibly VAGUE that two NON-YUT members (Gehenna and Kalessin) convinced us that the ICE COMET was the target. I had to read through the post, which was so poorly written you cant tell WHAT is being fired at, multiple times only to come back uncertain. That's why we asked for clarification.

Here's a little note for the future: POSTING A QUOTE OF WHAT WE FIND UNCERTAIN DOES ABSOLUTLELY NOTHING TO CLARIFY IT.

On another note, you want to A) Take out the entire Ring with multiple nations spanning it, destroying it completely, B) Have it be so that this shot is undetectable and that we can do nothing to stop it, and C) Have it so that no one attacks your space station afterwards, as we werent able to trace the shot.

You're stretching credulity to the point that its snapped. Don't complain about not being involved in the making of the Plan. You're the one who complained in the first place about being let in.

1) Other people found the post perfectly understandable. 1 shot out of many clipping an asteroid isn't particularly likely to be the goal of firing something.

2) Yes, multiple nations live on the Ringworld. I equate that to living on the Hindenburg. It's incredibly fragile, and delicate, and easy to shoot down. The choice means you get lots of easy access to space, it also means you're living in a vast tin target. All the things I posted were IN CHARACTER descriptions of an ANALYST'S predictions, during which he frequently said "maybe" or "I don't know". I'm not posting casualties for you. However, I'm very much of the opinion that the advantages of living off earth, in space, are counterpointed by disadvantages. Such as - you're screwed if you get shot at.
/shrug
I left it open. Bounce it off someone's diaelectric vanity mirror, if that's what you think will happen to prevent three entire countries losing the populace they chose to put in said naturally-hostile environment instead.
IF you mean I want to take out the ringworld in general - well, obviously. It's a war. How can you win without destroying the other side's assets? What's the point of a war when no-one can win? That'd be utterly pointless.

3) I didn't say the shot was untraceable after hitting, I just pointed out it would be very hard to feasibly trace as it travelled. There would be about 166 minutes between time of firing and actual impact. I actually said above after that it'd be a damn easy to trace the shot if it hit (see post above the post above this one).

4) My objection is not that there is "a plan". It is that it was so bizarre and unlikely that when I decided to be nice and not fire after having been bitched at for firing, I then got bitched at even more and ordered to fire for no reason (that I was told), simply because me firing had been set as the "plan" which would allow both sides to gang up on me. The fact whoever provided the information that allowed for the basic premise for "the plan" hadn't got a clue what was going on wasted my time, and everyone else's. In summary: plan all you want. Don't be surprised if people you refuse to tell don't act according to your plan, because they don't know about it.

This one is for WV.
First please read the Sky Falls.

At many AU distance, the smallest imperfection in the firing device would cause a huge deviation. (Levels requiring nanowank, which I have heard you comment you largely ignore.) Your ideas of what would happen afterwards also seem to largely ignore centripetal force, it does rotate you know. You weapon assumption is also a bit shoddy, as the ring building was done by a rather large international coalition. Of which we were only a part of. (And this was a long time ago, the RP taking place over a RL month).

Anyways, back to your targeting. You claimed that In-Character you had no idea where Rhea is, or that Zero-One lives on that Moon. Seeing your motivation is that you hate EI's and Zero-One is entirely EI, well, it’s a better target (or at least something Intel would have looked into). Now, Rhea, and the fact that Zero-One is on it is not secret information. It's public knowledge, sort of like handing someone a map of Asia and asking them to point out China. If your Intel services(or even scientists) can't find Rhea (which is again, public knowledge), you cannot expect to know the valuable information for targeting the Ring accurately. (Axis of rotation, whether or not that axis wobbles, what moons may be in your way, etc). Mind you these are reasons that IC your targeting will be off, not my OOC opinion of you.

In summary, I doubt your targeting will be very accurate. And seeing that it is our responsibility to post damages, I posted what I felt appropriate for the given IC situation.

So here's what we have: WV, your only purpose in the plot is to provide a scapegoat for Melkor so he can get his revenge on the Triumvirate for the Nargothrond and we can put that whole thing to rest. This was a logical solution to us when we were trying to hammer each other and then you start coming in with superweapons out in the middle of nowhere seem to appear from the same with the apparent intent to fire on both sides.

Of course, though, you have a massive OOC mad-on against me and mine for some strange reason that I, quite honestly, don't fully comprehend, and so you say that a weapon that is a) firing b) maintaining cohesion and c) causing -damage- from the Kupier belt can't fire through an atmosphere for some odd reason and thus can't hit Arda. Fine, don't care. We'll even take -that- and run with it.

The idea is not to get both sides to attack you; the idea is just that Melk commandeers the station and I render it unusable. I don't care if it's not destroyed anymore; hell, you've got Legacy right there, just monoatomic-hydrogenize us with your other uber ignore-cannon-made-real and get your station back with brand new outgassing plastic smell. I don't bloody care. Once the station is dealt with, I'm out of it because I'm rather tired of spending my free time on disputing this issue. IC, we'd probably chase you to the ends of the earth. OOC, I'm saying screw that, because by our constant conflict of attitude I can see quite readily that it's not worth it.

Just a case for 'easy come, easy go' syndrome. Sure, we'll let you suddenly pull out this Big Giant Gun from absolutely nowhere. Everyone in the planning committee found that rather odd. Hell, you can keep it afterwards. You can ignore us, because we sure as hell aren't going to let you kill twenty billion with a single shot. Either way we'll adapt and just get this foolishness behind us so we can go back to having fun.

Or, if you really want to kill us all, this is what you will get.

"A big chunk of Ring falls down and squishes Scolopendra. The End."

A one-line response for all your hard work. Because, quite honestly, I am sick and tired of this constant back-biting and sniping. You wanted to get involved, hoo boy, we got you involved at something that will turn out to be little to no cost to yourself (note that I no longer care if you keep the superweapon or not as long as I don't have to deal with it anymore).

Of course, I don't expect this to have any effect whatsoever. You'll just continue to rail against and belittle me, but I have to ask this if for no reason that I can later claim with the utmost truth that I did my best and tried every avenue possible:

What do you want?

At many AU distance, the smallest imperfection in the firing device would cause a huge deviation.
It's why there are big beams, lots of pulses, and I was shooting at a essentially stationary object ;) Very hard to miss something that circles around Titan.

Anyways, back to your targeting. You claimed that In-Character you had no idea where Rhea is, or that Zero-One lives on that Moon. Seeing your motivation is that you hate EI's and Zero-One is entirely EI, well, it’s a better target (or at least something Intel would have looked into). Now, Rhea, and the fact that Zero-One is on it is not secret information. It's public knowledge, sort of like handing someone a map of Asia and asking them to point out China. If your Intel services(or even scientists) can't find Rhea (which is again, public knowledge), you cannot expect to know the valuable information for targeting the Ring accurately. (Axis of rotation, whether or not that axis wobbles, what moons may be in your way, etc). Mind you these are reasons that IC your targeting will be off, not my OOC opinion of you.

In summary, I doubt your targeting will be very accurate. And seeing that it is our responsibility to post damages, I posted what I felt appropriate for the given IC situation.

I didn't know OOC that Zero-One was based on Rhea. It's utterly irrelevant, anyway. Assuming I knew IC I wouldn't go for it, either - my reasons for war are religious, however my nation is not retarded. To cause a crippling blow in the war, the ringworld needs to go. Assaulting Rhea would achieve nothing - given Rhea is an actual moon, with far too much mass to damage. Poking holes in Rhea would achieve ... negligible results. Poking holes in the ringworld ... threatens its destruction.

Ultimately, if NASA can aim satellites and organise spaceshuttles, hitting the VERY LARGE ringworld with a beam of light - even at those ranges - is a very easy job indeed ;)

Obviously, yes, it's up to you to call damages. Claiming I can't hit it is not a valid reason, however. It'd be far harder to miss (you think my scientists don't know that moons orbit? Please.) At least have the grace to explain my total inability to do more than kill an old woman spacewalking her chihuahua is due to elite spacedy defences :P

At many AU distance, the smallest imperfection in the firing device would cause a huge deviation.
It's why there are big beams, lots of pulses, and I was shooting at a essentially stationary object ;) Very hard to miss something that circles around Titan.

Anyways, back to your targeting. You claimed that In-Character you had no idea where Rhea is, or that Zero-One lives on that Moon. Seeing your motivation is that you hate EI's and Zero-One is entirely EI, well, it’s a better target (or at least something Intel would have looked into). Now, Rhea, and the fact that Zero-One is on it is not secret information. It's public knowledge, sort of like handing someone a map of Asia and asking them to point out China. If your Intel services(or even scientists) can't find Rhea (which is again, public knowledge), you cannot expect to know the valuable information for targeting the Ring accurately. (Axis of rotation, whether or not that axis wobbles, what moons may be in your way, etc). Mind you these are reasons that IC your targeting will be off, not my OOC opinion of you.

In summary, I doubt your targeting will be very accurate. And seeing that it is our responsibility to post damages, I posted what I felt appropriate for the given IC situation.

I didn't know OOC that Zero-One was based on Rhea. It's utterly irrelevant, anyway. Assuming I knew IC I wouldn't go for it, either - my reasons for war are religious, however my nation is not retarded. To cause a crippling blow in the war, the ringworld needs to go. Assaulting Rhea would achieve nothing - given Rhea is an actual moon, with far too much mass to damage. Poking holes in Rhea would achieve ... negligible results. Poking holes in the ringworld ... threatens its destruction.

Ultimately, if NASA can aim satellites and organise spaceshuttles, hitting the VERY LARGE ringworld with a beam of light - even at those ranges - is a very easy job indeed ;)

Obviously, yes, it's up to you to call damages. Claiming I can't hit it is not a valid reason, however. It'd be far harder to miss (you think my scientists don't know that moons orbit? Please.) At least have the grace to explain my total inability to do more than kill an old woman spacewalking her chihuahua is due to elite spacedy defences :P

Well apparently your Intel can't find you public knowledge, so how could they find you the info needed for hitting the ring (Axis of rotation and everything I mentioned). That is my reason for your inability to hit. Your intel and science sections missed some important targetting info. Not to mention it has a very thin cross section in terms of astronomical terms.

If you're unhappy with my post I could always have you just straight up miss. But then again I've alread asked a mod to delete part of my population.

So here's what we have: WV, your only purpose in the plot is to provide a scapegoat for Melkor so he can get his revenge on the Triumvirate for the Nargothrond and we can put that whole thing to rest.

And the reason you didn't come out and tell me until this came out into the public eye was ... ?

This was a logical solution to us when we were trying to hammer each other and then you start coming in with superweapons out in the middle of nowhere seem to appear from the same with the apparent intent to fire on both sides.

The only 'intent' was a single OOC comment made to Nathi, in which I said "I could just as easily be firing at Arda." The idea that an entire plot was built on that is laughable. The 'superweapon' doesn't come from nowhere - however as with everything I've done that didn't involve a moderator, it's been lost in the old thread purges and not been archived.

Of course, though, you have a massive OOC mad-on against me and mine for some strange reason that I, quite honestly, don't fully comprehend

Obviously. I think about you every day, I just can't stop.

and so you say that a weapon that is a) firing b) maintaining cohesion and c) causing -damage- from the Kupier belt can't fire through an atmosphere for some odd reason and thus can't hit Arda.

Go read up on the mechanism by which such weapons work. Particle beam weapons that work in the atmosphere don't work in space, and particle beam weapons that go for vast distances in space rapidly deplete in atmospheres.

The idea is not to get both sides to attack you; the idea is just that Melk commandeers the station and I render it unusable.

It's not so much that as the fact there is no reason for him to go for it - no logical reason, anyway.

I don't care if it's not destroyed anymore; hell, you've got Legacy right there, just monoatomic-hydrogenize us with your other uber ignore-cannon-made-real and get your station back with brand new outgassing plastic smell.

As in every war, I'm perfectly willing to lose everything I deploy. ;) The Legacy was a result of a big (as with everything else, gone) thread. I tend to reserve it for Kormanthor-class roleplayers though. The ones who spend all day bitching at me OOC culminating with telegrams threatning to kill me IRL :)

Sure, we'll let you suddenly pull out this Big Giant Gun from absolutely nowhere.

That, to be honest, is not my problem. I have no power over the fact posts get deleted whatsoever. I frequently take months-long breaks from these forums, no way I can bump everything.

You can ignore us, because we sure as hell aren't going to let you kill twenty billion with a single shot.

No-one had any delusions that you would. You chose to put a lot of people in a vulnerable location, though, having the military advantages of a ringworld (colossal spacefleets) comes with a disadvantage. Or not ...

A one-line response for all your hard work. Because, quite honestly, I am sick and tired of this constant back-biting and sniping.

Tonight, I logged on mellow. I'm still mellow. Your condescending opening post got a sarcastic response. I haven't called anyone OOC jerks to their faces because of this war, made fake apologies designed to manipulate someone into conforming to "the plan", and I don't spend all time in the #nationstates channel hollering 'retcon' (when there wasn't any subsequent timeline to make it a retcon) just to get things to go according to said mystical plan.

As for hard work?

Nah.

Nationstates is just a game that gave me an urge to go out and learn science. I'm from a roleplaying background where generally if you do things they have consequences, rather than a "oh dear if I lose my character I shall never again enjoy playing this game" type of background, but I recognise that both types play nationstates.

I deliberately went to the effort of posting only IC predictions. Only IC. I'm not in the habit of calling casualties, no matter how bizarre the circumstances.

What do you want?

Well apparently your Intel can't find you public knowledge, so how could they find you the info needed for hitting the ring (Axis of rotation and everything I mentioned).

They have telescopes.

That is my reason for your inability to hit. Your intel and science sections missed some important targetting info. Not to mention it has a very thin cross section in terms of astronomical terms.

Kalessin suggested Rhea afterwards. Rhea is a stupid target to hit - it's like a swordsman trying to tag his opponent's cap, instead of stabbing him in the face. Even had I OOC (this is an OOC point, I did not know OOC that 01 lived on Rhea 'til someone else brought it up) known about Rhea, I would IC aim at the ringworld: it's the logical target.

Addressing an earlier point:
As for imperfections - it's merely very hard to mass-produce things without such things. You can grow ammonia crystals in molecularly perfect shapes in any high-school chemistry lab.

Your average blue laser in a high-quality DVD writing machine contains two 'perfect' parts - the two rotors.

What do you want?

Harsher punishment for parole violators, Stan.

Oh ... and world peace!

Berserker, your post was better than I expected.

Scolo, I just want an interesting war. That's what it feels like to be met with condescension and sarcasm constantly.

Okay, that's it. I've tried to take into account everyone's feelings and am not going to be taken seriously. Fine.

Well apparently your Intel can't find you public knowledge, so how could they find you the info needed for hitting the ring (Axis of rotation and everything I mentioned).

They have telescopes.

That is my reason for your inability to hit. Your intel and science sections missed some important targetting info. Not to mention it has a very thin cross section in terms of astronomical terms.

Kalessin suggested Rhea afterwards. Rhea is a stupid target to hit - it's like a swordsman trying to tag his opponent's cap, instead of stabbing him in the face. Even had I OOC (this is an OOC point, I did not know OOC that 01 lived on Rhea 'til someone else brought it up) known about Rhea, I would IC aim at the ringworld: it's the logical target.

Addressing an earlier point:
As for imperfections - it's merely very hard to mass-produce things without such things. You can grow ammonia crystals in molecularly perfect shapes in any high-school chemistry lab.

Your average blue laser in a high-quality DVD writing machine contains two 'perfect' parts - the two rotors.The issue isn't what you OOC don't know, its what you IC don't know.

You said, that you IC didn't know where Rhea and Zero-One are. Apparently your scientists haven't been using those telescopes as they would have seen Rhea (and that you have the ring as orbiting the wrong body.)
How am I to believe that you can hit something that is a relatively small side on target (Its a ring remember, not a solid disk, any hit will be side on), when you can't even find prominent bodies of the system.

You said, that you IC didn't know where Rhea and Zero-One are.

IC I am fully aware where Rhea is, just not that Zero-One lived on it.
OOC I am fully aware where Rhea is, just not that Zero-One lived on it.

IC even if I had known, I would have shot at the ringworld.
OOC if I had known, I would have shot at the ringworld.

Berserker, your post was better than I expected.


What did you expect?

You said, that you IC didn't know where Rhea and Zero-One are.

IC I am fully aware where Rhea is, just not that Zero-One lived on it.
OOC I am fully aware where Rhea is, just not that Zero-One lived on it.

IC even if I had known, I would have shot at the ringworld.
OOC if I had known, I would have shot at the ringworld.

From IRC much earlier:
[19:21:03] <Melkor> I mean, thats where Zero-One is
[19:21:05] <Sirithil> Yeah, just hit Rhea
[19:21:06] <WhisperingVoices> I don't even know where Rhea is.[19:21:10] <Sirithil> It's a moon of Saturn
[19:21:11] <Melkor> uhhh
[19:21:17] <Melkor> its like right by Titan
[19:21:24] * WhisperingVoices thinks
[19:21:31] <WhisperingVoices> I have no reason to hit Rhea.
[19:21:37] <WhisperingVoices> I have no IC knowledge 0-1 is there.

[19:21:06] <WhisperingVoices> I don't even know where Rhea is.
[19:21:10] <Sirithil> It's a moon of Saturn


Now he OOCly knows where Rhea ICly is! :D

From IRC much earlier:
[19:21:03] <Melkor> I mean, thats where Zero-One is
[19:21:05] <Sirithil> Yeah, just hit Rhea
[19:21:06] <WhisperingVoices> I don't even know where Rhea is.[19:21:10] <Sirithil> It's a moon of Saturn
[19:21:11] <Melkor> uhhh
[19:21:17] <Melkor> its like right by Titan
[19:21:24] * WhisperingVoices thinks
[19:21:31] <WhisperingVoices> I have no reason to hit Rhea.
[19:21:37] <WhisperingVoices> I have no IC knowledge 0-1 is there.

And that was before I fired ... that was also when I found out Zero-One was on it. I'd wager you don't know what military holdings I have outside my main country, either, I'm not going to try and persuade you to bomb them for no reason and then say you miss because you don't know where they are however.

It looks to me like you guys are creating a problem where one doesn't exist.

Whispering Voices point about NASA is a good one, lets make it a question and put it into context.


Do you think NASA, today, with enough funds, could hit any of Saturns moons with a laser from Earth? Not any kind of uber-powerful super-laser, just a targeting laser.

If so, in a futuristic, fantasy world of aliens, EI's, and elves, supertechnological gravity drives, force fields, FTL travel and communication, and magic, psychic abilities, superpowers, and the supernatural, why is it inconcievable that real-world physics would still work?

Lets look at the facts.

1: A huge freakin' spinning disk around one of Saturn's larger moons would be easily visible to any real-life, modern day amature astronomer. To say that a futuristic nation couldn't pin it's orbital mechanics down to a few meters is a streach.

2: Which is a more oppertune target?
a) A large city (not even a full nation) underneath a relatively thick/dense atmosphere atop a very stable planetary crust?
b) A large Saturian Lunar city nestled deep under rock?
c) A much larger but ultimately thinner, weaker, centuries old, spinning disk that, if extremely lucky, might cause the entire thing to fall apart, or if only partly luckly, could cause a lot of damage and a loss of atmosphere resulting in the deaths of millions or billions?

3: If Melkor can nuke and chemically and biologically contaminate Mars resulting in the death of billions and the (possible) total destruction of the biosphere through the point defenses of tens of nations (many of whom are advanced nations run by respected players), then why can't WV shoot a massive spinning disk in space?



No one is requiring you to loose your entire nation, but many of us are expecting you to be reasonable.

******
******

I im in a unique position here. I respect all the major parties involved here. At one point or another, I have RPed with many of you, and enjoyed that RP. I really don't have any OOC conflicts with you guys.

But now I am hearing these arguements that are basically,

"I don't think you can hit because you OOCly didn't see that some obscure knowledge was public fact that your IC intelligence agency should have seen."

And "You can't just claim to destroy three nations outright! (pssst, forget that he didn't really say that and don't tell him that we all can)."


IMO, WV made a concerted effort to avoid using unrealistic wank-weapons (like the Legacy, or Angelus' huge numbers of tissue-paper ships, or gigantic numbers of uberships). He also made a very real effort to show you that while it was almost certain he would hit (would you ever, really miss the broad-side of a planetoid?), that [b]you would decide the damage delt.[/i] Lastly, he made very sure that you would be able to track where it hit.

******
******

Please gentlemen (and ladies), don't be hypocrites. Show that you can take what you give. Show that your not going to flame a player to death OOCly for reasonable IC actions. I respect you all and I want to continue.

-The player behind Wazzu
AKA The Cardboard Avenger (confirming the real-world physics behind WV's attack).

Addendum #1: Wazzu has been shooting tightbeam laser communications between Venus, Earth, Luna, Mars, and freighters that go as far as Titan itself to trade for NS centuries. A freighter's comm array is much smaller then the width of the ringworld (and so is the freighter), so why is this so unreasonable now?

Addendum #2: If a tesseract drive can be so precise from lightyears away, why not a particle beam from lighthours?

Addendum #3: Why are people presuming WV will accept that they decide the motives of his nation? Would they accept that WV (or anyone else) decides the motives of theirs?

Addendum #4: While some Wazzu individuals are certainly tied in with WV, Wazzu itself has no interest in seeing the Ringworld destroyed. Wazzu has many important trading partners in Yut, including Scolopendra, SLAGLands Titan, Menelmacar, and Sunset. Indeed, Sunset is Wazzu's closest ally, and so are a couple other Yut nations through MIDAS.

From IRC much earlier:
[19:21:03] <Melkor> I mean, thats where Zero-One is
[19:21:05] <Sirithil> Yeah, just hit Rhea
[19:21:06] <WhisperingVoices> I don't even know where Rhea is.[19:21:10] <Sirithil> It's a moon of Saturn
[19:21:11] <Melkor> uhhh
[19:21:17] <Melkor> its like right by Titan
[19:21:24] * WhisperingVoices thinks
[19:21:31] <WhisperingVoices> I have no reason to hit Rhea.
[19:21:37] <WhisperingVoices> I have no IC knowledge 0-1 is there.

And that was before I fired ... that was also when I found out Zero-One was on it. I'd wager you don't know what military holdings I have outside my main country, either, I'm not going to try and persuade you to bomb them for no reason and then say you miss because you don't know where they are however.Actually, this was after your test shot, and I highly doubt your intel had a sudden revelation.

Again, this is a RING, not a disk.

And I'm not saying WV lacks the technology to hit the ring.
What I'm saying is that they've apparently not done their homework.

I'm not deciding his motives, however I am holding him to what he said he didn't know IC.

well then feel free to post to that effect :P
Ah. Good.
Little ittybitty secondary nitpick- PANTOCLES isn't quite ubertech. It's mostly moderntech, it's just really freakin' huge.

Now, I intend to stay well clear of the debate over whether or not WV can shoot the Ring, but there are two things I want to adress:
It's colourless (due to being individual hydrogen atoms), focused (no fall off, so hard to measure), and not really spottable with optical technology or gravimetrics.
But it'll be screaming in radio and infrared.
Not sure what PANTOCLES is
PANTOCLES is a several-thousand kilometer wide omnidirectional radio/infrared telescope consisting of 20 fullerene antennas arranged in a dodecahedron around a core consisting of a mined-out and smoothed-over minor moon of Saturn, originally built to search for ultra-low-frequency radio signals from interstellar space and pinpoint their place of origin. Unless it's on the other side of the sun, PANTOCLES, operating at peak, would be sensitive enough to laser target a Space Shuttle engine burn anywhere between Mercury and the Heliopause.

I've had enough of this shit.

WV, you're out. I've tried to work with you on this, and you dont seem to realize that EVERYONE here is making lots of concessions to make this story work.

You, however, are not. You don't seem altogether too interested in creating a solution we can all agree with. And given that this is a game, and not real life, you cannot have it your way all the time. You can take all of your 'I hate yut' and 'I hate EI' rhetoric and stick it up your ass, for all I care. Essentially all you're doing here is creating problems for a storyline that we fucking DEVISED to PREVENT this kind of thing from happening.

The Ring of Powerfullness, while it may be a legitimate target if this WERE real life, is essentially a plot mechanism used by the Trium Players to justify their rather expansive populations. for game balance reasons, this means the Ring will not be destroyed or compromised beyond repair in one post, if at all.

Long story short: if you're not willing to make some concessions, neither are we. Have a nice life..

Aye, frankly I've had enough of playing nice as well.
WV, You've been nothing but fork-tongued to a good deal of us, and we're no longer inclined to listen to you and your commrades. I've not had 30 million deleted from my nation only to have people bitching.

Pack up your bags and leave.

Well, then, if everyone is in agreement then, as Ignoretech spokeswoman for the Trium...

Whispering Voices, by order of the people running this storyline, you are voted off the roleplay!
http://rpstudios.ian-justman.com/junk/CGgoods/IGNOREMK-VI-OWNED.JPG

~Firefury Amahira
~Lady Shogun Eternal under the Wings of Chaos
~Immortal Shogunate and Affiliated Territories of Reploid Productions

[Holy freck. Does anyone remember a time when those I-cannons were the size of a small house? o.O]

[Holy freck. Does anyone remember a time when those I-cannons were the size of a small house? o.O]

Dude, the Mk-I (my smallest Ignore supercannon) was 3 miles long and 30 stories high! That's a little bigger than "a small house" :lol:

[Holy freck. Does anyone remember a time when those I-cannons were the size of a small house? o.O]

Dude, the Mk-I (my smallest Ignore supercannon) was 3 miles long and 30 stories high! That's a little bigger than "a small house" :lol:

[*grin* well, then, I guess it was probably not -your- cannon then. but still, wow those things have grown o.O]

This is the most ridiculous thing I've yet seen the moderators agree on. Apparently you just decided to "stop playing nice" and in your combined fit of elitism and emotional insecurity 'voted' the most dynamic and, IMO interesting possibilities for this RP out of it?

Whatever...

Ya know it's an interesting process that lets a bunch of roleplayers decide a "plot" whenever their IC nations come under threat, and then get to dictate that "plot," and then get to "vote out" anyone they don't like whenever they like. (Of course it's just a pure coincidence that they 'vote' out the biggest IC threats to their nations. My my, "nothing can defeat me as long as I IGNORE CANNON PWNAGE GRAPHIX" eh?)

This is the most ridiculous thing I've yet seen the moderators agree on. Apparently you just decided to "stop playing nice" and in your combined fit of elitism and emotional insecurity 'voted' the most dynamic and, IMO interesting possibilities for this RP out of it?

Whatever...

Ya know it's an interesting process that lets a bunch of roleplayers decide a "plot" whenever their IC nations come under threat, and then get to dictate that "plot," and then get to "vote out" anyone they don't like whenever they like. (Of course it's just a pure coincidence that they 'vote' out the biggest IC threats to their nations. My my, "nothing can defeat me as long as I IGNORE CANNON PWNAGE GRAPHIX" eh?)
I remind you this is an INVITE ONLY RP. You don't like how its run, then stay out.

Also these are actions taken as players, not moderators. And another thing, you've no idea the kind of work the lot of these people have put into making this workable and not some huge ass wankfest.

We voted out WV because he would not be a team player, and seeing as it is an INVITE thread and both sides (mind you not just the side he attacked) had it up to here with him.

I don't know about SB, but I for one intend to (stay out that is).

I lost some respect for a few good RPers now. I'm not certain how I'm going to deal with this all OOCly or ICly ('bit tired at the moment), but I'll have to come up with something.

It is a sad day when nano-grav-shield-tesseract-4BillionMeterRingIn30YearsConstruction ignores even minor damage from a near-modern type attack.

I've yet to read any good reason WV's attack (or WV itself) should be ignored. It was reasonable, extremely well researched, a great twist, and placed in a character-oriented format that puts most RP posts (including my own) to shame.

I don't know what to do.

Waz, we're not ignoring the attack, per se. Never intended to. Bers had 30 million people effaced from his nations stats in response to the hit. Please don't insinutae that the attack was ignored. Do some research first.

WV was not ignored for any In Character doings. He was ignored because he displayed a complete lack of empathy for our situation, OOCly. He was ignored because if his actions were allowed to continue--independent of the agreed-upon plot--he'd have just wound up ignored anyway.

What's the point of plotting this all out if one [or more] players won't listen to it?

More extensive post to follow later.

I wasn't ignored for any reason other than I didn't like being railroaded into plots I had absolutely nothing to do with the creation of, and plots I am not told about. This has been a laughable attempt at a war by both Yut and Melkor Unchained (I won't say the same for Kalessin or Lord Sauron Reborn, who actually tried to make it vaguely interesting. Melkor is happy to be fobbed off with obvious bits of tat, in exchange for which he makes his dominion look ever more ridiculous). The fact that people are unwilling to lose anything is the glaring, obvious problem: everything else is just feeble excuses.

Anyway, as I said, more extensive post to follow.

OOC:

I was never consulted as to whether or not WV should be voted off.

That's...predictable. I told you both that you'd have to re-work the ridiculous bit of the plotline built around WV. As I said at the time, you've just let it run till it got to an awkward position for you, to engineer an ignore. Despite all possible prior warning.

Encore.

This space will become an IC post & the present one dissapear before long. I'd just like my disgust to be noted (& casually disregarded, in the grand tradition).

I wasn't ignored for any reason other than I didn't like being railroaded into plots I had absolutely nothing to do with the creation of, and plots I am not told about.

The thread clearly has "CONTROLLED" and "INVITE-ONLY" blatantly listed in its title. If you couldn't agree to these two, clearly stated stipulations prior to posting then you shouldn't have posted.

This has been a laughable attempt at a war by both Yut and Melkor Unchained (I won't say the same for Kalessin or Lord Sauron Reborn, who actually tried to make it vaguely interesting. Melkor is happy to be fobbed off with obvious bits of tat, in exchange for which he makes his dominion look ever more ridiculous).

It was also one to which many people did NOT want you to join, but was allowed against the opinions of many of those involved directly. I'm sorry you feel you didn't have enough of a say in the way the story would go (read: None at all), but you agreed to this. You knew this was a controlled thread, meaning that Melkor, Scolo, and the others mentioned were "controlling the plot". You had the option of staying out. You chose not to. Deal with it.


The fact that people are unwilling to lose anything is the glaring, obvious problem: everything else is just feeble excuses.

30 Million People and an entire major city annhiliated from existance is hardly "unwilling to lose anything". In ANY OTHER ROLEPLAY if you tried to wipe out an entire region of nations in one single shot you would be instantly ignored as a Godmoder. It's not like your attack was ignored. Your attack was recognized. It missed the ring, still did considerable damage, and was responded to.

Anyway, as I said, more extensive post to follow.

My recommendation: Don't bother. No one cares nor particularly wants to hear what you have to say.

The thread clearly has "CONTROLLED" and "INVITE-ONLY" blatantly listed in its title. If you couldn't agree to these two, clearly stated stipulations prior to posting then you shouldn't have posted.

You can't write a story involving me without consulting me. That's godmodding ;)

You knew this was a controlled thread, meaning that Melkor, Scolo, and the others mentioned were "controlling the plot". You had the option of staying out.

They were trying to control my IC actions without telling me what was happening or what they were doing - and yes, without my permission. This is still godmodding ;)


30 Million People and an entire major city annhiliated from existance is hardly "unwilling to lose anything". In ANY OTHER ROLEPLAY if you tried to wipe out an entire region of nations in one single shot you would be instantly ignored as a Godmoder.

I was trying to hit a giant spacering. It may or may not have wiped Yut out, I wasn't expecting it to. If you put an entire region into a tin can, and someone kicks it, blame the people in the tin can for living there.

Your attack was recognized. It missed the ring, still did considerable damage, and was responded to.

The missing the ring part is utterly laughable, and pathetic.


My recommendation: Don't bother. No one cares nor particularly wants to hear what you have to say.

Don't fear your dirty laundry. Embrace it. Unless you claim to speak for the entirety of Nationstates, many of whom will be reading these posts and going "that's ridiculous."

I suggest it isn't worth the effort. If you feel the need to vent, go ahead and start your own thread. It makes it easier for people to ignore you. At this point, opinions are already crystalised. Those who agree with you will continue to agree with you, and those who disagree with you will ignore anything you have to say.

Let it go. Move on. I speak for many (although I admit not all) when I say I really don't want to see this argument continue.

You can't write a story involving me without consulting me. That's godmodding ;)

You chose to become involved in a Controlled thread. You agreed to it being controlled by posting. If you did not wish for this to happen, you should not have become involved.

Just to make things clearer:

con·trol
1. To exercise authoritative or dominating influence over; direct.
2. To adjust to a requirement; regulate

They were trying to control my IC actions without telling me what was happening or what they were doing - and yes, without my permission. This is still godmodding ;)

Please see above.

I was trying to hit a giant spacering. It may or may not have wiped Yut out, I wasn't expecting it to. If you put an entire region into a tin can, and someone kicks it, blame the people in the tin can for living there.

You were trying to hit it, you failed. As much as you may think that you had everything completely planned, you made several major misassumptions, one major one being that the ring was circling Titan, which it is not.

The missing the ring part is utterly laughable, and pathetic.

See above.


Don't fear your dirty laundry. Embrace it.

Actually, I prefer to clean it up so that it doesnt start to stink.

Unless you claim to speak for the entirety of Nationstates, many of whom will be reading these posts and going "that's ridiculous."

I never claimed to. I expect them to form their own opinions based on the information presented. They are entitled to them, however different they might be. That's not to say that they will particularly matter to me or affect me in any way. I'm not playing this game for a popularity contest. I'm looking for good, fun RP. And I'm quickly discovering that its in the opposite direction of wherever you are.

You chose to become involved in a Controlled thread. You agreed to it being controlled by posting. If you did not wish for this to happen, you should not have become involved.

I was happy to be in it. I cannot conform to being controlled when people don't tell me what needs to be done and why it needs to be done.
Want me to work with the storyline? Need to tell me what it is.

You were trying to hit it, you failed.

For reasons even uninvolved people laugh at ;)

I'm looking for good, fun RP. And I'm quickly discovering that its in the opposite direction of wherever you are.

Yes. I had the gall to do what IC situations would indicate. You join Kormanthor, Resi and Automagfreek on that one ;)


Anyway ... I need to go out now. For those who care, here is my side of the story. (http://www.angelfire.com/rings/fyad/lolatyut.html)

I shall not post it here, for obvious reasons.

*Wholly backs up Whispering Voices.*

Well I had High hopes for this RP and I'm dissapointed. I might not concur to the realism of all of Whispers spacedy but for once I think he's got the right on his side. I thought this game was a free roleplay, I didn't know that it was about winning. What I've seen here makes me even more sick of NS than I was before. I didn't knew you could force your will on a nation and make a plot that all had to follow or be ignored. I might like to point out that in this war there were a lot more play behind the scenes and in the shadows than anyone in Arda or YuT even knew. With this carefully planned since may last year I find it extremely amusing that capable roleplayer doesn't want to play it through. And it once more shows the extreme need of an independant neutral GM in these situations. Since there are too many Mary Sue's out there.

You said it was an invite only? Well, hereby the Reich uninvites itself. We will take in consider what to do with ignores and such, but this game is getting outright silly when so many people take it so serious. I saw Wazzu offering his help as a somewhat neutral mediator, I believe accepting his offer might have saved this.

It is also alarming to see how Melkor treats people that tries to help him out in a war, especially in a war that could have been fought with flare and fun on equal terms looking at the particiapants. I think it is poor form to play ones allies that way with OOC plotlines and and Melkor's involvement in such ridiculous activity disappoints me.

This statement is not a personal attack, nor is it directed at any one player.

First off, when has it been decided that our jobs are to entertain? The leads in this tale hashed out the script, which any GOOD WRITER does in advance. Room was made for free-form RP to a point. Drastic deviations, however, would not be permitted. It would wreck the whole script.

Hell, right now i'm a bit player. Do I want a more active role? Yes, but it might detract from the story going on. So I wait and see, and plan accordingly.

Another thing. If there are disclaimers in a thread, pay attention to them. They're not there because some key-stroke jockey wanted to get a little digit exercise.

And finally, what is it that makes folks decide others have to really care what they think? Odd, how that works. If I don't like a thread, I simply just don't read it, and don't return to it.

I had other points, but I got a headache.

For those so strongly in support of WV on this, the log of the discussion wherein he clearly states that he expected his one shot to break, destabilize, induce torsion in, and send hurtling into both Titan and Saturn, thus destroying it, the 5 or so nations living on it, and the Titan nations, the Ring. NOT to be confused with the WorldDisc of Angelus, which is another thing entirely.

First off, multiple people have done the math on this. His shot wouldn't have affected the ring at all. I'd say 30 million lives lost in one shot was a fairly generous give all things considered.

Second, yes, it was a poorly done thing to have 'ganged up' on WV earlier on, AFTER we'd already had several plans in place to resolve this issue between Arda and the Trium. His inisitence on pushing his way in changed things dramatically - usually not a problem as hey, this is how rp's sometimes go - but were it not for his continually abusive behavior and arrogance towards nearly everyone, not to mention his allowing his own ooc issues to cloud things, I'd rather imagine such things wouldn't have gone down the way they did.

Third - I'd like to know since when do I control anything the Trium does? I'm not on the council. I'm a member just like anyone, and one of th weaker to boot. My holdings are on Earth. Not only that, but I don't recognize WV in play, due to comments and attitudes going all the way back to the Sketch war, wherein he stated an ignore, then retconned it. I went with the first comment, and never looked back. Until now, I've had the pleasure of not being required to deal with him at all.

A good number of those conversations he's quoted, he initiated, all while doing his best to slander and twist words behind my back, and in the IRC channel. To clarify a few points:

I'm far from the local Trium cyberslut. If you folks really think that I'm spending my time 'sleeping with' all the players there to better influence things, you're more pathetic than I thought.

I've never wanted to eliminate magic from my gameplay. If this were so, why on earth would I be wanting to continue playing with Melkor and Kalessin, to name a couple of primes? Not only that but there's 'magic' of sorts and psionics in several Trium nations - do you really think I'm going to ignore my own allies as well? The issues I've had with magic in gameplay are war scenarios when it's difficult to balance tech and magic against each other - no more, no less.

If anyone is trying to eliminate anything, it is WV and his solid rage about spacefaring nations. To quote:

<Melkor> who the hell on Titan or wherever is going to say "ok, you hit the ring with a cannon that we really couldnt do much to prevent. I guess we're all dead now. can a mod delete this nation now?"

<WhisperingVoices> They're pretty stupid nations then. That's the price
you pay for living in space and claiming to be the Ultimate Space Powers

So yes, people, despite his public arguments here, he did indeed think to destroy several nations with one shot of his uberweapon that, if memory serves, started out as an ic ignore canon, that he later 'rp'ed' into a real thing. Convenient, that, no doubt. He talks about dictating actions and running things? Read his posts carefully. He dictates quite a bit there, from saying what all is supposed to happen to the Ring, how there is nothing we can do about it, how supposedly we can't track it, and if we should, how he'll ignore us for not laying there and taking it. For all of you so hot to accuse people of 'not accepting damages' ... how many of you would be keen on this sort of situation were it reversed? How many of you would have ignored it outright rather than accept anything? Keep in mind, we're talking an entire REGION and several large nations utterly destroyed without even a chance to do anything about it. Godmod, he says? Oh I think so, though I think the title more befits himself.

WV seems to have decided somewhere along the way that I am the bane of his existance, and has gone out of his way to be mean and spiteful behind my back. He's badgered me continuously in the channel, often on points that don't concern him at all, and in private convos. Those bits he's quoted there are fine and well - I made it clear they were just that. Private opinions after getting rather riled up at his comments. In no way was I representing the Trium or anyone else in those, and I take offense that he paints it that way. My involvement in the thread was removed at his appearance in any capacity other than finishing getting those people out (evac) and shoring up my own defenses as instructed, on Earth. If he chose to take ooc info himself (which he did - pot, kettle, black) and use it for ic actions (just, as you'll notice, he's continued to accuse us all of) then I for one have a hard time respecting any of his argument in that regard. Not that it matters to many of you who've already made up your minds, nor I'm sure to him.

At any rate, for your perusal ... The log of discussion for solutions that obviously went awry. (http://home.mchsi.com/~ketri/wsb/links/whisperlog.txt) And no, I shan't be posting here anymore. You want to bawl me out here, fine. Feel free to tg me as well. Or get hold of me on IRC. Or whatever.


edit: updated file.

- You did that! - a random Yut member.

- No, you did that! - a random Melkor.

- I say you both did that! - a random Misha.

OMG engages the OMG Anti-Seriously Stupid Flamming Idiotic Ranting Entities slingshot and OMG shoots both Yut and Arda members with it.

Well, I know that I am not at all a major power in this NS Universe, that nobody cares about what I can or cannot do in this NS Universe, that I have no word to say in what is going on in the NS Universe. All I know is that I have read WV's stuff through carefully. I have taken the time to do my own researches. I have taken the time to bug a friend of mine who is working over as a researcher at CERN.
And what I know is that WV's tech is not perfect. I didn't really understand why, but compared to what he had to say about Yut's stuff, WV's tech seemed totally feasible.
But well, as I have said, my word has no value in this NS Universe, especially since I am lame at techy talks, so I will not go on with the techy talk since I'll get lost myself :?

I have studied the wars which involved either Arda either Yut. All ended or were close to ending in a flamming barage from both sides. So I do not see why even pay any further attention to any of the great 'flamming' blocks. From now on, both my OCC and IC stances towards both Yut(except one or two members) and Arda will, on a scale from -10 to +10, be of -6. In OOC this means that I will think seven times over before involving myself in any way with either block. In IC this means that GDT will think seven times over before establishing contacts with any of your nations.

But as I have said, since nobody really cares about my stance due to my unimportance in the NS Universe, this post will make a perfect post count boost! :D

Last things to add:

Melkor: I really had lots of respect for you and OOCly I supported you more than any of those elven goodie-good nations :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: [insert a godzillion more such smileys here]
Maybe ICly GDT would have made a good Arda member if things went differently... who knows...
But now... -6

Nathi: Same to you. What people say over in IRC doesn't really matter. WV did not say that he was 100% OMG sure that his beam would completely destroy the Ringworld in the NS post. Since it is only what he says in the NS forums in the post itself which matters, it was up to you folks to see what damage would be dealt. Unless you have agreed to work this over via a private IRC channel by making IC posts. It worked perfectly well for many situations it would seem.
Anyway... -6

So right now I will side with Wazzu and stay freaking out of the whole mess. I am not OMG IGNOREZ! anyone, since it is not in my habits to OMG IGNORE anyone.
I do not hate anyone here nor am I angry after anyone here(since I wasn't involved anyway).
So far, I have more a feeling of pity towards all of you who do have some great talent at writing and RP'ing and who get carried away like kindergarten kids.

Do Svidaniya!

Well I had High hopes for this RP and I'm dissapointed. I might not concur to the realism of all of Whispers spacedy but for once I think he's got the right on his side. I thought this game was a free roleplay, I didn't know that it was about winning. What I've seen here makes me even more sick of NS than I was before. I didn't knew you could force your will on a nation and make a plot that all had to follow or be ignored. I might like to point out that in this war there were a lot more play behind the scenes and in the shadows than anyone in Arda or YuT even knew. With this carefully planned since may last year I find it extremely amusing that capable roleplayer doesn't want to play it through. And it once more shows the extreme need of an independant neutral GM in these situations. Since there are too many Mary Sue's out there.

You said it was an invite only? Well, hereby the Reich uninvites itself. We will take in consider what to do with ignores and such, but this game is getting outright silly when so many people take it so serious. I saw Wazzu offering his help as a somewhat neutral mediator, I believe accepting his offer might have saved this.

Completely agree. I wanted to join but I will also stay out of this RP. If the reich stays out, Knootoss stays out. The secrecy is also a bit silly. Some people get to know the plot (the BIG majority of those involved) and some people don't. Having a nice file with the plot outlines for all who participate would IMVHO be a big pro.

EDIT: and Tarasovka put it even more eloquently.

To quote:

<Melkor> who the hell on Titan or wherever is going to say "ok, you hit the ring with a cannon that we really couldnt do much to prevent. I guess we're all dead now. can a mod delete this nation now?"

<WhisperingVoices> They're pretty stupid nations then. That's the price
you pay for living in space and claiming to be the Ultimate Space Powers.


I stand by that OOC opinion. I stand by the fact I had an IC analyst state what he predicted. I stand by the fact that - unlike your side - I didn't try to godmod people into doing exactly what I wanted. No-one expected the ringworld to be blown up (I'd be interested to see what "calculations" your "multiple people" came up with, however. The idea that it would not affected the ring at all is laughable. Come forth, o ye mathematicians, physicists and engineers.)

Lastly, I 'accepted' not being in the roleplay. I asked Melkor to get me in, got little to no response, and just left it. I was later informed I was in. Muscling? Naah. In the words of one person involved in making the plan, I was the "lynchpin stopping the war turning into a giant flaming ignorefest." It's interesting you should bring up the Sketch war, though, where you let Angelus take the rep dive and fall for ignoring Sketch because you were bored of the fight.

Rage against spacefaring nations? I accepted Wazzu. I accepted Eniqcir, because I think he puts a vast amount of effort into making physics-based things. I accept many of them. It's the constant OOC manipulations, and condescension that annoys me.

And yes - that log is from a time when I was more than a little angry: having just been told what the plan was, and undergoing a vast amount of pressure to conform to it when I couldn't possibly do so.

Ya know, the crap I saw on IRC last night-- several people practically GLOATING, as if they've "defeated" WV with their little ignore, and expressing what was obvious OOC dislike-- tells me that its not, in fact, all WV's fault despite the cohesive but ultimately fallacious arguments to the contrary. I've seen lots of people going out of their way to be mean and spiteful, and willing as I might be to agree that the only person who did was WV, I just can't swallow it.

And as for taking 30 million in damages from a miss... well, that reminds me of a time when a few dozen nations, several here included, ortilleried the tiny island of Resi Island's military bases and major infrastructure. Resi lost some storefront property. Apparently, everyone just missed, despite the smallness of the target and the overwhelming volume of fire. Apparently, anyone misses who shoots at the Ring too. The fact that you took out 30 million doesn't change that you're essentially going "you didn't hit me, noyadint noyadint." Sure, 30 million died, and sure Resi lost some very important beach property, but both cases is defying logic in order to not take the real hit.

I mean if it was sooo not going to destroy the target anyway, why not let it hit? Rather than this contrived, "you said something on IRC so you have no IC knowledge of astronomy at all so you can't aim and hit a huge megastructure!" thing.

Maybe I'm missing something here.

Let me make this absolutely clear:
I am the one who took responsibility for the Ring shot, and subsequent miss. I take full responsibility for that section of the RP. If you have a gripe about it, your fight is with me. The others are of no concern to you. GOT IT.

I'm not the one that didn't do his homework on the area. If I was about to vap your area (and despite his insistance that he would let us dictate damages, he'd moan if we didn't have the Ring destroyed by his gun), I'm sure you'd want me to have a excellent intel about your region. I expect no less from others.

WV apparently didn't see fit to give me quality research for his firing (He states the Ring as orbiting the wrong body a couple of times for god's-sake), so I'm not giving him what he wants. However instead of just having it hit nothing (which it really should have done given probability) I made a concession.

Another note for your "fragging huge target people"
Again, its a RING. Not a disk.

Imagine making loop out of simple sweing thread.
Now place this loop on a slanted board, on the ground somewhere.
Now proceed to walk a couple miles aways and tell me if you can still see the string.
Not as fapping huge as most of you are imagining.

It's quite alarming and rather scary, in fact, the amount of people that are coming out of the woodwork to support WV despite knowing next to nothing about what's going on behind the scenes. Allow me to say this once again, in case WV chose to ignore it the first 6 dozen times I said it:

"WHISPERING VOICES, I'M SORRY THAT YOU WERE NOT CONSULTED REGARDING THE FIRST PLOT IDEA WE HAD. NOT TELLING YOU ABOUT IT WAS SHADY AND UNDERHANDED, AND IF I'D HAVE BEEN THERE FOR THE NEGOTIATIONS, I WOULD HAVE INSISTED THAT YOU BE TOLD."

Such as it was, you found out about it the first time you discussed the matter with me, so dont you fucking DARE insinuate I was trying to keep something secret from you.

Secondly, I'd like to address all these people that are "losing respect" for myself and Yut for whatever reason: I, frankly, don't really see where this argument is coming from. WV was completely and totally unwilling to have anything to do with a mutually agreed-upon story, and yes--the words "Invite" and "CONTROLLED" are clearly visible on the thread's title. Anyone with a working set of neurons could probably deduce that this mean's we're trying to control the story, if only to TRY and prevent this whole thing from turning into a grade-A bitchfest, which was the whole reason myself and the ToY were never supposed to go to war. It seems to be working nicely, doesn't it?

The first plot called for WV to fire at ToY and Arda [the latter was apaprently a mistaken notion, as he had no intention of hitting me with that thing, but for the record I had little to do with the editorial process on this one] and we'd both conclude that his OMG UBARCANNON was a bigger threat at leaast in the immediate sense than our opponents, and we'd go after it and smash WV in tandem, only to have our military assets damaged to the point where we couldn't rightly continue the Arda-ToY conflict. WV nixed this plan because, as I mentioned, he wasn't ever going to hit Arda

So we scrapped this idea and tried to work around it. We needed some way to stop the inevitable invasion of Titan, because neither of us particularly wanted to RP it for one reason or another. We investigated pretty much all of the possibilities regarding that and it wasn't pretty. Yut decided that to atone for the Nargothrond, I could kill Valhalla station. So I suggested that we do that by having the Imperium seize the OMG UBARCANNON and use it to smite Valhalla station, hence gaining my revenge for the Nargothrond. Yut would then blow the OMG UBARCANNON to smithereens, and try to piece together te evidence. Seemed a nice compromise to me: WV gets to see the Trium bleed, I get my revenge for the Narg and Yut gets their cessation of hostilities with Arda.

The Trium players have made it readily clear to me on several occasions that they have no desire to RP an Arda-Yut war to the hilt, and frankly, I don't blame them. War RP's aren't fun for everyone, contrary to apparently popular beleif. I don't see why it's so wrong for them to not want to have the big OMG UBER WORLD ENDING WAR.

Everyone seems to be making this out to sound like we're ignoring WV for his IC actions. If you'd actually read the posts completely instead of reading them up to a point that you don't like and ignoring the rest, you'd all know this by now. Let me draw a real world parallel here:

Imagine you're a storyteller or a DM in some sort of LARP or paper dice RP game. Now, imagine that you have a player that charges in and goes "fuck your storyline, I'm doing x, y, and z and there isn't jack shit you can do about it."

Would you let that person into your story? I don't think so. Why should we be expected to?

Wait wait, so it's a stealth ring or something? How many KILOMETERS thick did you say it was again?

How hard is it for *modern tech* to observe from orbit and planetside anything in the solar system as big as that? Or smaller than that?

It's fapping huge for anyone with above-medieval technology to see with a telescope, and to build fapping huge structures in space and then claim that they can't even be SEEN to hit... well, I hate to point it out, but doesn't that sound like godmodding?

Maybe I'm missing something here, too.

Wait wait, so it's a stealth ring or something? How many KILOMETERS thick did you say it was again?

How hard is it for *modern tech* to observe from orbit and planetside anything in the solar system as big as that? Or smaller than that?

It's fapping huge for anyone with above-medieval technology to see with a telescope, and to build fapping huge structures in space and then claim that they can't even be SEEN to hit... well, I hate to point it out, but doesn't that sound like godmodding?

Maybe I'm missing something here, too.

*facepalms*
Gah, its small in astronomical terms,
For the last god-damn time I did not say he lacked the ability to see, or hit it.
I did say that he didn't do his work, and thus missed a few tidbits of needed targeting data.

This is the last time I explain this.

I dont see why you're harping on the Ring, it's a moot point. Like I said, destroying it in one post is a game balance issue and its properties probably shouldn't be taken too literally. It won't be destroyed in one post because its stupid and makes no sense, especially given that the Trium could do nothing to prevent or redirect the blast. Would you allow me, for instance, to vape your capital city in one post?

Such as it was, you found out about it the first time you discussed the matter with me, so dont you fucking DARE insinuate I was trying to keep something secret from you.


It wasn't either yourself or Yut that told me the details of the second plot til after it had been decided as well. I sent you a telegram, and an IRC message, when I found out what it was. They pointed out why the plot as decided made absolutely no sense, from my point of view. Subsequent to those, you placed me on ignore.

So yes - the first time with the plot, you kept something secret.

<WhisperingVoices> so what's this plot then?
<WhisperingVoices> we're not fixed to lose are we?
<Melkor> no
<Melkor> not really
<WhisperingVoices> hmm
<WhisperingVoices> good =)
<Melkor> I've been told to keep the plot under my hate to add to the suspense factor :P
<Melkor> -e
<WhisperingVoices> Well I'll be mildly annoyed if the plot is "Melkor and his allies get raped but in the process kill 0.5% of Yut's 1st fleet" or whatever
<WhisperingVoices> And also vaguely annoyed if it assumes anything about me :P
<Melkor> heh
* Melkor thinks you'll be surprised

Damn right I was surprised when I found it out - from Kalessin. The second time round ... when, again, I was unaware that the plot had been changed - AGAIN - to involve Yut ships letting you attack the Seventh Trumpet ... assuming it would be taken over, instead of self-destructing ... all those sorts of things. Again decided without my knowledge or consent. Again broken to me very much as an "afterthought".

Don't buy it. Clearly neither do most of your allies. Have fun avenging the Nargothrond, I hope it is worth standing alone for.

By the way, the point about the ring shot was not that it didn't destroy the ring, rather that it scratched it. That, I believe, is the point people are making. Living in space is a balance issue, it means you can argue for total space dominance and be invincible. If you make the place you live invincible too, well. As you said yourself, Melkor, "I said I was willing to lose everything but they weren't buying it."

Such as it was, you found out about it the first time you discussed the matter with me, so dont you fucking DARE insinuate I was trying to keep something secret from you.


It wasn't either yourself or Yut that told me the details of the second plot til after it had been decided as well. I sent you a telegram, and an IRC message, when I found out what it was. They pointed out why the plot as decided made absolutely no sense, from my point of view. Subsequent to those, you placed me on ignore.

So yes - the first time with the plot, you kept something secret.

<WhisperingVoices> so what's this plot then?
<WhisperingVoices> we're not fixed to lose are we?
<Melkor> no
<Melkor> not really
<WhisperingVoices> hmm
<WhisperingVoices> good =)
<Melkor> I've been told to keep the plot under my hate to add to the suspense factor :P
<Melkor> -e
<WhisperingVoices> Well I'll be mildly annoyed if the plot is "Melkor and his allies get raped but in the process kill 0.5% of Yut's 1st fleet" or whatever
<WhisperingVoices> And also vaguely annoyed if it assumes anything about me :P
<Melkor> heh
* Melkor thinks you'll be surprised

Damn right I was surprised when I found it out - from Kalessin. The second time round ... when, again, I was unaware that the plot had been changed - AGAIN - to involve Yut ships letting you attack the Seventh Trumpet ... assuming it would be taken over, instead of self-destructing ... all those sorts of things. Again decided without my knowledge or consent. Again broken to me very much as an "afterthought".

Don't buy it. Clearly neither do most of your allies. Have fun avenging the Nargothrond, I hope it is worth standing alone for.

By the way, the point about the ring shot was not that it didn't destroy the ring, rather that it scratched it. That, I believe, is the point people are making. Living in space is a balance issue, it means you can argue for total space dominance and be invincible. If you make the place you live invincible too, well. As you said yourself, Melkor, "I said I was willing to lose everything but they weren't buying it."I'm more than ready to lose everything, but only if my opponent shows they've earned it.
Guess what you didn't do.

But enough is enough. You've been ignored and frankly continuing on this course of bitching will do nothing but clog the forums.
End of discussion.

I'm more than ready to lose everything, but only if my opponent shows they've earned it.
Guess what you didn't do.

As so many people have said ... you'd have found one excuse or another. It's already been said that the ringworld would never take serious damage. I guess I didn't manage to extract information from people who refused to talk. Oh, dear. Dear oh dear. And who took no steps to correct my references to the ringworld (and I am pretty sure in targetting it I'd have noticed what moon it was around).

Berserker, give it up. You have made yourself a laughing stock, now quell it down a bit. The ringworld is fine. Hooray. You can live in peace, in space. I doubt very much anyone will ever bother trying to roleplay a hostile interaction with Titan again, after this. Your goal is achieved.

I'm more than ready to lose everything, but only if my opponent shows they've earned it.
Guess what you didn't do.

As so many people have said ... you'd have found one excuse or another. It's already been said that the ringworld would never take serious damage. I guess I didn't manage to extract information from people who refused to talk. Oh, dear. Dear oh dear. And who took no steps to correct my references to the ringworld (and I am pretty sure in targetting it I'd have noticed what moon it was around).

Berserker, give it up. You have made yourself a laughing stock, now quell it down a bit. The ringworld is fine. Hooray. You can live in peace, in space. I doubt very much anyone will ever bother trying to roleplay a hostile interaction with Titan again, after this. Your goal is achieved.You still can't get its location right.
But this is besides the point.
I've already take damages from your shot.
More people died from your miss than would have if your shot actually connected with its intended target.
Or perhaps you just decided to ignore the part where i had 30 million effaced from my stats.
What more do you want?

(and I am pretty sure in targetting it I'd have noticed what moon it was around).

To repeat once more, it isn't around a moon, it's around Saturn. And also, how can we expect you to know what 'moon' it's around when you don't even know that Zero-One is on Rhea? Something which is probably taught in elementary school geography, and is listed in every atlas and almanac under the sun.

We are more than willing to take damages, and, in fact, have already. Roleplay is cooperative. You don't cooperate.

Imagine you're a storyteller or a DM in some sort of LARP or paper dice RP game. Now, imagine that you have a player that charges in and goes "fuck your storyline, I'm doing x, y, and z and there isn't jack shit you can do about it."


Actually, as elected head referee of the oldest LARP society in the world - one that just held an event for eighty people - and a person who's been an invitation several times at conventions, I can answer this question. I don't make my players do anything, I offer them situations where they want to do things. Nor do I take free will away from them: after all, it's them that are playing. Not me. It's my job to make their time fun. If a player wants to do something, he can do it. It's up to the world to react to it.

You don't know everything, you suck

There were ample opportunities for people to point out my mistake with the ringworld, as they did when they tried to get me to hit Rhea not the ringworld. Guess what ? They didn't. And if it's around Saturn, well - the idea I could miss something that is around a planetary body 120,536 km wide at the equator is ... precious. Especially given that to counteract gravity the ringworld would have to be far, far bigger around than that. So you think people can miss something the size of Saturn's rings?

(and I am pretty sure in targetting it I'd have noticed what moon it was around).

To repeat once more, it isn't around a moon, it's around Saturn. And also, how can we expect you to know what 'moon' it's around when you don't even know that Zero-One is on Rhea? Something which is probably taught in elementary school geography, and is listed in every atlas and almanac under the sun.

You know, there is this thing that we just RP nations and all... we do not *really* have giant intelligence agencies etc. to keep us up to date...

Now, there are two possibilities:

1. One asks what is where. This is definitely something whisper didn´t do. His fault.

But, 2. If something like this happens, you simply correct this people oocly, so they can edit their posts, rather than gloating about it and/ or claiming that because people may not have the time to check all the necessary data, this people, or rather, their nations, make mistakes that are too ridiculous to be taken serious. And quite frankly, according to the logs shown, the way the trium treated Whisper didn`t exactly encouraging asking, since essential questions weren´t answered, anyway.

You don't know everything, you suck

There were ample opportunities for people to point out my mistake with the ringworld, as they did when they tried to get me to hit Rhea not the ringworld. Guess what ? They didn't. And if it's around Saturn, well - the idea I could miss something that is around a planetary body 120,536 km wide at the equator is ... precious. Especially given that to counteract gravity the ringworld would have to be far, far bigger around than that. So you think people can miss something the size of Saturn's rings?

Whispering Voices, I'm going to tell you something, and I'm going to tell you it only once.

I will take a lot of shit from people. I will accept insults, mokery, and statements that would often result in blood being spilt. One thing I will NOT accept is being misquoted to slander me. This is one of the ultimate betrayals of trust, and makes it so that I cannot trust anything you say or quote. However, as we are in a medium where the only way that we can interact is through what you say and quote, I'm afraid I cannot trust you at all or work with you at all.

You have just achieved an IC and an OOC ignore. Congratulations. You are now the only person in the whole of NationStates to acheive this.

Freod's Player

It's quite alarming and rather scary, in fact, the amount of people that are coming out of the woodwork to support WV despite knowing next to nothing about what's going on behind the scenes. Allow me to say this once again, in case WV chose to ignore it the first 6 dozen times I said it:

"WHISPERING VOICES, I'M SORRY THAT YOU WERE NOT CONSULTED REGARDING THE FIRST PLOT IDEA WE HAD. NOT TELLING YOU ABOUT IT WAS SHADY AND UNDERHANDED, AND IF I'D HAVE BEEN THERE FOR THE NEGOTIATIONS, I WOULD HAVE INSISTED THAT YOU BE TOLD."

Such as it was, you found out about it the first time you discussed the matter with me, so dont you fucking DARE insinuate I was trying to keep something secret from you.

What you are saying here is that you weren't consulted either? That you are just a Tool forthe ToY?

I do know what is going on. Knowing people IRL and talking to them does that for you.

So Melkor... what you said there effectively meant that Yut made up a plan for you to help them kill WV. And you went along with it despite Lord Sauron and Kalessin (two of your major IC supporters) telling you that it was non-sensical and forced. What you are saying is that you were just a tool and not to blame. Well shucks... that is such an attitude for a Dark Lord.

Your ancient enemy lies before you and unexpected help strikes at the heart of his power: the damage could be superficial... but the fact remains that they must divide their forces to prevent a second attack. Well damn... what is that but an opportunity to go for the jugular?
Why do you accede to a plan that involves you bending OOC truths to create a situation where you (a mod) must browbeat WV (a player) into breaking character (failing to roleplay) and forcing him to follow a storyline that he doesn't know and doesn't want to follow that ends in him being no longer a threat to... your ancient enemy.

You are being bias as a player, you are breaking character as a nation. And none of it is your fault. Because you are listening to a bunch of people who say that they will take their ball and go home if anyone lets their illusion of indestructability get touched.

This isn't directed at you. This isn't really directed. This is random irritation for what could have been a great thread if certain persons had a stomach for wars that lasted more than three posts on their part.

We want to fight a war... we want to lose a war. But what we want is to roleplay a war. And if that can't happen on these forums then you might as well post in a FAQ that roleplay isn't counted when dealing with the Triumvirate of Yut.

I await a response. Please make it polite, relevant and sensible.

More generally: Someone mentioned LARP. I LARP and help to referee one faction of the largest LARP systems in the world. I know WV... and he is (as I was) involved in what claims to be one of the oldest LARP societies in the UK, if not the world.

We LARP. We do rpgs on a daily, if not weekly basis. So don't try to out-roleplay-history us. Don't try to out-physics us because WV does have the free time to look this up and don't try to out-war-knowledge us because I work for a major defence company. (and if you don;t believe me TG me with an email addy and I will reply from my work account).

But... if you were to ROLEPLAY with us then it would work. That is what I am here for, that is what most of you claim to be here for. Where then is the problem? OWNAGE. Most people here seem to get bored of a war after 10 posts. Well damn... look up the 1st World War. Not the version that says it began in late 1916 with the Americans turning up: the real life history where people had been dieing in millions since 1914.
That was supposed to be a "short victorious war" and both sides not only said they would, but expected to, be home for Christmas. War on that scale is big and long and nobody can reduce it to 'we own you'. Owning shouldn't happen in war threads here, yet every thread that might be otherwise disolves into OOC ignore if it doesn't?

You may not know me. I turn up in roleplay threads. I back the moderators up in the Moderation forum and I try to be polite (even to idiots). Please don't ignore what I say.

For the last time:
That plot was made in error.
That plot was also 2-3 plot rewrites ago. We're no longer on that plot, so bitching about how it isn't going to work is rather pointless.
We know it wouldn't work now, that why we changed it.

Why do you feel the need to post "qualifications" Tarrican?

Ok, so you RP somewhere other than NS. Good for you, so do lot's of other people. It's great that you work of a defense contractor, and that we've got ROTC people. Its nice that he can do physics, and that we can as well.

None of this changes the fact that he came into a closed RP, and is now complaining when he's ejected for trying to completely change the storyline that had been worked out that would satisfy everyone, despite attempts by us to fit him in. It doesn't change the fact that he's been extremely rude to the other players, which in my book is more than enough cause for him to be ejected. We've tried being reasonable, and all that we've got in return in whining and insults. Its not our problem that you don't like our RP style (a style where we take 30 million losses from something we can't affect in any way, as opposed to either allowing you to somehow kill 20+ billion people or ignoring you in the first place) - he joined our RP, after having no prior relation with us except one incident, where he ignored us, retconed or not.

So, we're doing exactly what you say - taking our ball and playing with people who its fun to play with, like Melkor and Kalessin, who are just as fed up with the situation as we are. We're not stopping you from having fun with your own RPs, we're just excluding you from our own.

With that said, I suggest that any further discussion on this be taken elsewhere, so that it stops clogging up this thread in which it is no longer relevant.

So... yeah... how 'bout that local sports team, eh?

http://www.bu.edu/bridge/archive/1998/10-23/photos/sports.jpeg

Here are Star Player and Other Player holding Trophy that Local Sports Team won by defeating Rival in Championship Game. They must be proud.

NOTE: Local Sports Team Law forces a change of conversation and, as such, has everything to do with what's going on here. Let's just have a damned war already! =P

So... yeah... how 'bout that local sports team, eh?

http://www.bu.edu/bridge/archive/1998/10-23/photos/sports.jpeg

Here are Star Player and Other Player holding Trophy that Local Sports Team won by defeating Rival in Championship Game. They must be proud.

NOTE: Local Sports Team Law forces a change of conversation and, as such, has everything to do with what's going on here. Let's just have a damned war already! =P

Bah...all this blaming 'n bitchin' is going no-where.

In the end, the main problem here has been mis-communication. Both WV and the ToY members have legit (but pretty minor) greivances, but neither have done anything seriously wrong.

What we need is for both sides to sit down in IRC, and talk it out...preferably in a moderated discussion, to prevent rising tempers ruining everything. I'll volunteer for the role of moderator, if necessary.

And Tarrican: I'd appreciate it if you'd refrain from mis-citing me. As for The Plan...I'd defend it in the same way as I'd defend Democracy....

"It's crap, but all the alternatives are much, much worse."

And no Tarrican 'we' don't want to lose a war. No-one does (well..I do, and have, but I'm in a minority of about 2). That's the problem which The Plan is designed to solve.

This is one of the ultimate betrayals of trust, and makes it so that I cannot trust anything you say or quote.

Read through the posts I made, and all the opportunities people had the chance to point out the glaring error of the vast world ring's mislocation.

You talk about trust? That's hilariously inappropriate.

We know it wouldn't work now, that why we changed it.

Into another permutation involving Melkor attacking something for no reason.

Why do you feel the need to post qualifications

Maybe because of the vast amount of "we're in AFROTC" that's floating around.

It's quite alarming and rather scary, in fact, the amount of people that are coming out of the woodwork to support WV despite knowing next to nothing about what's going on behind the scenes. Allow me to say this once again, in case WV chose to ignore it the first 6 dozen times I said it:

"WHISPERING VOICES, I'M SORRY THAT YOU WERE NOT CONSULTED REGARDING THE FIRST PLOT IDEA WE HAD. NOT TELLING YOU ABOUT IT WAS SHADY AND UNDERHANDED, AND IF I'D HAVE BEEN THERE FOR THE NEGOTIATIONS, I WOULD HAVE INSISTED THAT YOU BE TOLD."

Such as it was, you found out about it the first time you discussed the matter with me, so dont you fucking DARE insinuate I was trying to keep something secret from you.

What you are saying here is that you weren't consulted either? That you are just a Tool forthe ToY?

I do know what is going on. Knowing people IRL and talking to them does that for you.

So Melkor... what you said there effectively meant that Yut made up a plan for you to help them kill WV. And you went along with it despite Lord Sauron and Kalessin (two of your major IC supporters) telling you that it was non-sensical and forced. What you are saying is that you were just a tool and not to blame. Well shucks... that is such an attitude for a Dark Lord.

Your ancient enemy lies before you and unexpected help strikes at the heart of his power: the damage could be superficial... but the fact remains that they must divide their forces to prevent a second attack. Well damn... what is that but an opportunity to go for the jugular?
Why do you accede to a plan that involves you bending OOC truths to create a situation where you (a mod) must browbeat WV (a player) into breaking character (failing to roleplay) and forcing him to follow a storyline that he doesn't know and doesn't want to follow that ends in him being no longer a threat to... your ancient enemy.

You are being bias as a player, you are breaking character as a nation. And none of it is your fault. Because you are listening to a bunch of people who say that they will take their ball and go home if anyone lets their illusion of indestructability get touched.

This isn't directed at you. This isn't really directed. This is random irritation for what could have been a great thread if certain persons had a stomach for wars that lasted more than three posts on their part.

We want to fight a war... we want to lose a war. But what we want is to roleplay a war. And if that can't happen on these forums then you might as well post in a FAQ that roleplay isn't counted when dealing with the Triumvirate of Yut.

I await a response. Please make it polite, relevant and sensible.

More generally: Someone mentioned LARP. I LARP and help to referee one faction of the largest LARP systems in the world. I know WV... and he is (as I was) involved in what claims to be one of the oldest LARP societies in the UK, if not the world.

We LARP. We do rpgs on a daily, if not weekly basis. So don't try to out-roleplay-history us. Don't try to out-physics us because WV does have the free time to look this up and don't try to out-war-knowledge us because I work for a major defence company. (and if you don;t believe me TG me with an email addy and I will reply from my work account).

But... if you were to ROLEPLAY with us then it would work. That is what I am here for, that is what most of you claim to be here for. Where then is the problem? OWNAGE. Most people here seem to get bored of a war after 10 posts. Well damn... look up the 1st World War. Not the version that says it began in late 1916 with the Americans turning up: the real life history where people had been dieing in millions since 1914.
That was supposed to be a "short victorious war" and both sides not only said they would, but expected to, be home for Christmas. War on that scale is big and long and nobody can reduce it to 'we own you'. Owning shouldn't happen in war threads here, yet every thread that might be otherwise disolves into OOC ignore if it doesn't?

You may not know me. I turn up in roleplay threads. I back the moderators up in the Moderation forum and I try to be polite (even to idiots). Please don't ignore what I say.

I really don't want to deal with all of this garbage right now--I've had a long day at work and--oh joy--I get to come home to this. Scolo told me a few days ago that NS (which is supposed to befun) was rapidly becoming one of the more stressful aspects of his life--and it's sad. Now I know what he was talking about.

Alas, however, I must drag myself out of this sleepy reverie and address your points, since you asked me to. At the beginning of your post, you suggest that even I was not made aware of the plot. Well, this isn't exactly true, no. I wasn't there when it was hashed out and created, as I had RL to attend to (work, probably) that day and I wasn't around much. I dont remember who all was in on the planning, but I received a log and a URL with the Plan upon my return from work. I read it, and figured it was decent--if a little Out of Character with my nation in some minor respects.

Originally, we had planned to keep the Plot largely secret for one reason or another and I was under the perhaps mistaken notion that we'd simply prod people in the right direction and let them know if they did something to compromise the Plot and stop it as opposed to just telling everyone, because it would allow for a more Free Form RP, and frankly knowing the end of a story usually ruins it. Not telling WV in that first conversation that he posted (which I forgot about earlier) was my mistake and I'm sorry. There's no excuse for that.

Your next point I found particularly interesting because I was thinking about it to myself at work earlier--before I even read this post. The bit about me "breaking character" and such. NS Melkor isn't quite the same as the Silmarillion's Melkor, I've discovered. I try my best, but ultimately I have no way of knowing what's going on in the Dark Lord's head. I could probably do a lot of things differently, but if I were to play the Dark Lord card to it's full power, I'd be pissing in 70,000 bowls of Cheerios in the sense that NS would be fun for noone if I played Morgoth exactly as he was written. To do so would require me to refuse any allies [except those willing to become my slaves], and I'd have to be at a constant state of war with Menelmacar as Morgoth was with the Noldor during the First Age.

I rationalize this ICly by explaining Melkor thusly: after his lengthy stay in the Void, the Dark Lord became more cold and calculating than his previous incarnation, and given the explosive population increase since his banishment, he's got to go about things a bit more carefully now.

What I'm getting at here is that I can't play Morgoth to the letter because it would require me to force other players (ie. Siri) into doing things that they don't want (ie. big, long-ass war between Morgoth and the Elves).

Another thing I don't understand about all of this is these seemingly incredulous references about us using "OOC info." *grabs his temples and shouts* That's the whole damned point when predetermining wars in a FFRP setting! I mean, do you really think that ICly we'd all just sit down and be like "OK, so how's this war going to end?"

We all shared OOC info in the planning, again, that's the point. We were trying to come to terms with what would happen to our fleets, strongholds, bases, and forces as players, trying to work with each other to grant concessions here and there for the sake of the story. Hell, if it had come down to it and we all decided Melkor was to lose, I'd have gone right ahead and told them how to beat me.

And before I go, yet another idea spawned from my overworked cranium today whilst listening to customers ramble on about jr. bacon cheeseburgers and such: WV, I can't speak for the others involved in the planning of this, but I for one would be more than happy to allow you back into the story if you can present something to us that fits into our plan. It doesn't have to involve your destruction or anything: just forget about all of that for the moment. PM me on IRC sometime and I'll give you a general idea of where we want this story to go in its most bare-bones form. If you'd like to stay in this, maybe coming up with your own solution would be a good start.

Argh. I've got a headache now.

peace,

--Morg

Like Tarasovka, I'm not involved in this RP, and neither am I big or powerful enough to make a difference in it. But also like him, I think it is good that the two bitching blocks here get to know how other nations think of their actions.

In this RP, the participants are some of the 'greatest' players in the game. The moderators, the old nations, the old alliances. That means that in a sense, you are role models. Not that you are responsible for educating others, and you don't have to be saints either, but you DO present yourself as "good" roleplayers.

On IRC, I received several recommendations to stay out of this mess, and I IC_ly fully intend to do so. This also means I am withdrawing my application for Yut. (The mere fact that it has been standing since June and that it was never decided upon already should have told me I wasn't all that wanted :wink: ). But my opinion is that both sides (the pro and anti WV ones) screwed up, especially Yut.

If this RP was really as 'controlled' as you state it to be, this would not have happened. You screwed up, and some of you won't even admit it. And indeed, I have asked a friend of mine that studies aerospace technology and physics (don't know the exact name of the studies), and he says that WV's technology is realistic, to the extint that it is highly possible he could get an accurate hit.

But regardless of all that: I expected a good story to read, and now that is screwed up. Most of you often bitch at "players that are in the game to win". Think of that and re-read your actions, because it looks like you all want your particular vision of the future to become reality.

As Tarasovka said, this sort of mess ensures you lose a lot of people that used to admire your rp. But hey...who am I to judge, right? I don't know The Plan, so what do I know?

But neither does WV....

Anyway, I'm as disappointed as Tarasovka, and as confused as Wazzu.

So far for my little postcount boost :wink:

Kalessin, I appologise for taking your name in vain. I had the information second-hand and should have checked its validity before I quoted someone else's opinion. Again, appologies.

The plot changes have been all very well, but the same thing applies: they rely on the compliance of someone who was neither included, nor consulted on the plan. When he diverged from this he is scorned for not complying with a plan that he wasn't told and makes no sense anyway. How is that either fair or sensible? The thread was not closed originally, yet when it was made so, every major protagonish other than WV was made a 'control' for it. Locking enemies out of the thread makes for poor wars and poor sportsmanship.

Yes, I agree Kalessin, the answer is for all parties to get together and discuss options. But all parties means all parties... not 'all but the victim'. This would provoke an unprecedented degree of trust and might actually resolve the disputes in question.


As for my qualifications, I posted them in the vain hope that my opinion would not be dismissed out of hand. To establish a balance to the "we've got ROTC people" argument. Not a superiority, a balance. We have the information, experience and intelligence to argue on an equal footing... but are our opinions given equal weight?

Nobody is asking anybody to take 20+billion casualties... we're asking for the hit to be taken and the consequences dealt with IC. One of those consequences being the need to either protect against a second shot or deploy enough resources to destroy what is effectively a stationary target in space. Both are possible, now that you know where it is coming from and what it is, neither is necessarily easy in the middle of a shooting war with Melkor. Hence why that moment was chosen.
As WV said... everything we deploy in a war can be taken down. We are willing to take any loss you actually go out and cause... including our nations. But we cannot be ownzed in a single sweeping declaration of superiority, nor can we beat you that way. It is a major shooting war that cannot be called in a single toss... practically unique in NS history.

Kalessin: The 'we' wasn't meant to include anyone but myself, WV and those of the Devils Desert who are willing to adventure with us. I know you guys don't want to lose a war, and frankly it does you credit that you have. Essentially I was trying to say that it wasn't whether we won or lost... but how the game was played. I want whoever wins to earn it by roleplay, skill and good writing... not by OOC chicanery and gerrymandering.

argh.
Melkor, sorry about the headache. I shouldn't have ranted like that and I certainly shouldn't have turned it on one of the most reasonable people in this conflict.

I had a headache myself, and logged on with my head brimming with characters to spread throughout my nation and show its many fascets as they prepare for the possibility of invasion. I found a bitchfest... and I responded. Not excusable, but I am sorry.

I accept your points about the character of Morgoth: he is yours and I was making assumptions on the basis of the Silmarillion. I also accept the point about working it out OOC...
But leaving out WV was a mistake. Partly because he was the trigger event that lead the thread to need control... and partly because there is a wider scheme being run here.

*sigh* We need a neutral party here. But where are we going to get one of them with alliances this large?

*sigh* We need a neutral party here. But where are we going to get one of them with alliances this large?

I would volunteer myself. I consider myself largely unbaised in the matter {OOCly at least, I like most, if not all of the players involved in this} and would be happy to look over any persisting disputes.

*sigh* We need a neutral party here. But where are we going to get one of them with alliances this large?

I repeat my own offer....since I OOCly like all, or at least don't dislike any of the participants, and I know the issues better than most. The fact that I believe that I can see and understand the reasons for both side's disagreements helps. ;)

Ctan would also do a good job though..probably.

Ctan would also do a good job though..probably.

Yeah, thanks for the vote of confidence, probably indeed, miserable wretched magic dragon thing that you are. :P :wink:

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Flame: Expressing anger at someone in uncouth ways with OOC comments (i.e. swearing, being obnoxious, threatening etc.)though it does to watch what you post IC as well unless the other posters know you're not serious. Flaming in the forums should be reported in the Moderation forum, in the game itself, through

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From Melkor's Post:

"Such as it was, you found out about it the first time you discussed the matter with me, so dont you fucking DARE insinuate I was trying to keep something secret from you."

"Imagine you're a storyteller or a DM in some sort of LARP or paper dice RP game. Now, imagine that you have a player that charges in and goes "fuck your storyline, I'm doing x, y, and z and there isn't jack shit you can do about it.""

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From Taravoska's Post
So far, I have more a feeling of pity towards all of you who do have some great talent at writing and RP'ing and who get carried away like kindergarten kids.


Never mind. Please for the love of god don't flame me, I have a fragile ego.

Erm... I'm just curious, really. Reading through, it seems like everyone is willing to blame the Trium for what is essentially a group effort. Now... if we have to take the role of 'bad cop' that everyone just wants to heap all the blame on, that's fine. We don't have dealings with 90% of the people wanting to disparage us and while it's sad that they want to dismiss us outright for whatever reason it really doesn't change anything for us.

I'm just curious as to why it's all our fault when we've gone out of our way (just like Melkor has) to make this work. We've done our best not to act outside of the limitations set up by the group, and whenever anyone has had a problem we (just like Melkor and Kalessin) have tried to adapt and take it into account.

It probably mostly stems from choosing to take the hit on Liberty than the Ring; we did that because it was still a very hard hit (Berserker got more than centimated, let's face it) and we thought we could sidestep the whole 'just how strong is the Ring' argument. Our math supports our side, WV's math inevitably supports his...

But let's not get into math. That horse has been flogged to death and beyond already. Please.

As a gameplay issue, if we hit the Ring, either it breaks or it doesn't. If it breaks, then everybody dies and it's a one-shot region-killer, something that has always been considered at least bad form in the past. If it doesn't break, then we're painted as nano-wanking-godmode-uber-whatevers. So we decide to sidestep that issue altogether.

Fat lot of good it did us.

I really do have to thank Melkor and Kalessin for supporting the solidarity of the plotwriters, but I'm still curious as to why third parties think it's all Yut's (and, as I'm their point-man, my) fault.

TG me with responses, please. This thread has gotten out of hand as is.

I really do have to thank Melkor and Kalessin for supporting the solidarity of the plotwriters, but I'm still curious as to why third parties think it's all Yut's (and, as I'm their point-man, my) fault.

Because Yut chose to have the shot miss, I believe. The ... "plot" ... is a burden you all share.

Anyway, to Kalessin, Lord Sauron, Melkor Unchained, and to C'tan and Wazzu for offering to moderate: thank you, but no thank you.

Here are my reasons why. (http://www.angelfire.com/rings/fyad/lolatyut2.html)

I'd just like to thank Siri for sticking the knife in after I thought we were at least friendly - I guess I just wasn't willing to give in to everything and therefore didn't make the "cut". I was actually hurt to see you joining in: the rest I didn't really care about.

Anyway, subsequent to that going up:
Berserker is henceforth ignored for godmodding. Ask one of your friends to restore your 30 million population. The beams couldn't destroy a city anyway: I don't really care for fob-offs.
Every single member of the Trium that chose to spend their time bitching about me in a public chatroom whilst I was asleep is ignored for being petty, and for aiding and abetting Berserker. I notice just like in the Sketch war, one member comes forward and tries to take all the blame so the others look pure white. Now, like then, I'm calling it: but this time I'm not giving the benefit of the doubt. Also every member that posted rampant insults here.
Melkor also goes on ignore. Unlike certain Trium members, who I actually went into the situation disliking, I liked Melkor and thought he put up with a lot - I especially felt sorry for him being labeled as a worthless pothead by a Trium member. I now can clearly see that whatever I tried to put in, energy or ideas or support, meant nothing to him. Not a situation I feel the need to continue.

It's a rare situation to ignore five game moderators in one fell swoop, especially ones that are all good writers. However, my experience of them is definitely that they have no worth as players, so I doubt I'll regret it. This could have been a fantastic opportunity for character and nation development in one of the two areas that civilisations are built on: war. However, I think it is obvious that the Trium didn't want development - or change to the status quo of any sort.

I will, however, do an amazing 'ignore' graphic, once I master the intricate details of MS PAINT.

That's quite enough of that.