NationStates Jolt Archive

Clarification: If you're not involved, please do not post here. I'd rather get the problems addressed rather than have everyone and their dog take this as an opportunity to chime in with their personal views on it all. Thanks.

Alright now. This has all been gearing up for some time, and with the Mars mess and other places I've been seeing things, I think we need to get a few things laid down, and laid down straight.

Frankly, I'm tired of seeing things like 'wave after wave' of forces with no clear numbers, or even a vague idea on numbers. I'm equally tired of this seeminging endless pool of monsters/troops/what have you that you, Melkor, seem to be able to pull from, regardless of location or previously laying it out.

Granted, on Io, he's said he was building. And this means ... what, in game terms? For chrissakes, if anyone else tries these tactics, they get shouted down cat-quick. Numbers may be ooc knowledge, granted - but they serve a purpose. The one-upsmanship has to realistically stop somewhere. Any arguments for literary license or troops being too hard to actually count fall by the wayside in the interest of fair play.

To sum up that point - I bloody want numbers stated for Io forces, and I want 'em now. If y'all can't manage that, I see no reason to continue to acknowledge an Imperium presence there. It would be an exercise in futility and a waste of my time. I don't know about the rest of you, but there's my stand on it.

In addition, I'm getting more than a little annoyed with these supposedly uber Amarthi things that from what we can read, will run loose and propogate at the speed of thought for an eternity, never to be beaten, never to be destroyed, and continuously ravening for the blood of whatever enemies Melkor decides they're against at the time, while his own forces remain immune.

While I might buy the last bit, their being genetically constructed and 'programmed' to fight for the Imperium, what the hell is this other stuff? Indestructable anything is an outright godmod, and as such, is unacceptable. I don't care who you are. I suggest you rethink things a bit there, because there ain't no way anyone's gonna accept those sorts of 'facts' on the big nasties. I've been seeing far too many 'cannots' involved with the damn things as is.

Another thing is the stalling tactics and what seems to be abuse of ooc information that's been going on. This whole thing of letting some fronts lay quiet while you try and wrap up others is frankly, dirty pool. The argument has been that having you strung out on so many fronts was a damn good reason for actions on some peoples parts. If we're to rp this out proper, while you're still fighting on Mars, before the surrender, the stuff on Io would still be going on, as well as the movements in Rukemia/Fyreheart. I realize it's hard what with jumping back and forth here and there, but there have been several times you've been addressed and have chosen to ignore it for whatever reasons. I hear too often the 'no response because that's our way' argument, and it's starting to sound more and more like simple delay tactics. Fine and well - realize that even inaction has its consequences and can be construed as as much an act of war as an action can be.

Look man, I likes ya. You can be a helluva lot of fun and all. But this constant RAWR, I'M HUGE!!! attitude of doing whatever you want just because you're Morgoth-fuggin'Bauglir is ... lame. I can appreciate your wanting to play as close to character as you can. Understand this though - we ain't in the Silmarilion. The forces you've got to deal with these days are a helluva lot more potent than a pack of elves (Sorry Siri, s' the facts). You've got MULTIPLE large nations that especially when banded together are more than capable of some serious damage and harrassment. You've got this really bad habit of agreeing to go one direction, then have this OMG AWESOME revelation, then want to change the rules on everybody. It makes for difficult, unfun rp for everyone involved, and ends up spiraling into nothing more than one big bitchfest or mass ignores.

Me personally, I'd not like to see it go there. I need someone big, bad, and dangerous to deal with. It keeps things more fun. But not when no matter what I do, or how well I put together a plan or spin, or how well my forces are armed or can fight, I can't ever get a win. I don't expect to always come out on top - never have. Neither do I expect to always be holding the short end of the stick. No one likes that. But I've got to tell you, if I can't start seeing some solid numbers, and at least a willingness to be somewhat rational about things, I'm gonna have no choice but to watch the Imperium get sucked off by this damnably odd fractal Universe we're all working with. You wouldn't be the first nation, and I'm sure you wouldn't be the last, but boy, I'd hate to see it happen.

--Nathi's Player

*cleaned on request because no comments by uninvolved parties were requested and no debate desired*

To be honest, I got involved in this Io thing under completely false prestenses. The way Slag was talking in IRC in the days leading up to the starting of the thread, it sure seemed to me like he was ending the Burninatonian storyline, and it seemed to me like my army was to be the impetus for this..er, radical change. Of course, now it's turned into a much, much more explosive situation than I thought it would. I'm not going to blame Slag; hell, the misunderstanding was probably my fault.

But damn it, he started a thread right when this all started saying he was quitting NS and such, but apparently he changed his mind...

...after I sent my armies out. Now, this makes for a ridiculously awkward situation, ICly. I could just withdraw I guess, but thats the kind of weakness Althalon doesn't like to display. So, yeah. I got involved with this under completely false pretenses, and I'm not happy at all with the way it's going.

But enough of my bitching--not every RP will go where you want it to, so I guess I have to play along, to whatever end. The main reason why I haven't stated any number yet is because no one's actually even seen the army, or bothered to RP any sort of scouting, and Amarthi are sort of hard to count. At present, there are roughly about 300,000 Amarthi on the moon, about 1/3 of which are actually attacking the city. Losses for these forces will of course be rather heavy, as they themselves carry no ranged weaponry. In terms of agility, stamina, and intelligence, they're comparable to those things from "Alien." Except they dont have acid blood.

As for the main army parked under the city, it's actually a pretty small force--roughly 20,000 Southron Guardsmen and a few companies of Easterlings. Very few Uruks or Ocs, if any at all. There's a batallion of Cave Trolls in there too--towards the front. So 2,000 of those. There are almost no non-combat personnel, and no tanks or long range artillery.

THe more I think about it, the less likely I am to actually have it come out, as my understanding of where the storyline would go was [apparently]wildly inaccurate.

I'm sorry you misunderstood as it were. I don't recall particularly your armies going out after anything like that was said. Hell, I recall him saying he was going to be taking a break here and there. The 'quit' thing was much farther back. This all has been since he decided otherwise. Not only that, but I recall myself warning you about rash actions up on Io in irc before you posted all that. So no ... don't buy it.

This bit of saying you were 'drawn in under false pretense' is ridiculous. Your drive to have your hot lil hands on everything you can is what's landed you here, that and not respecting other claims or considering what consequences your actions might bring.

I don't give a damn whether Oz was gonna let this go or not - certain other factions exist there, and had for some time previous to yourself, who rather took offense at your presumption.

The fact is, you acted rashly, didn't think things out, and are now getting bit in the ass with it. Plain and simple. No, things don't always go as we'd like. Happens to the rest of us all the time. You roll with it, and move on.

Now that I've got some answers to go on in the other thread, and some numbers, though I'd hoped ooc stuff could be hammered out here *thwap* at least I've something to go on I suppose.

Best of luck.

(and yes, I am tired and cranky and most likely in no way operating with a lot of tact. mi dispiace.)

I won't bother with the OOC tag since this is understood here.

I knew this war was likely to decline into an ignorefest, largely because of the history between the principles. It was established that war can't be done because of OOC disagreements. And yet, RP has been established to show tension between the two groups and eventually pave the way for another war.

So we brought it to a head early. It seems to have caught a few people off-guard, but that's a consequence of RPing a cold war. What do we have now?

Magicwank versus Techwank. That's pretty much what it seems to boil down to. "What you can do with Tech, we'll do with Magic!" Okay, fair enough. But what are the limitations of this Magicwank? How do you establish what you have, how much you have and where you got it from? Karma and Scolo have established what their Techwank can and can't do. Angelus' tech is less well-defined, but Angelus isn't participating this time and at least he established the World Disc's ability to hyperjump when he introduced the thing.

This is degenerating into an ignorefest not because of the principles, but because of the allies. I find that disturbing. There's a lot of stuff coming out of left field here that was given no foundation, nor even a hint of possibility, and the RP is suffering greatly.

This could be some great RP. It could at least establish a historical precedence of why the two groups can't/won't interact anymore. Instead it's becoming Yet Another Example of Why We Can't Lose.

I don't give a damn about Epic Battles and Great Sacrifices. I just want some reasonable, thought-out RP that everyone can agree upon.