NationStates Jolt Archive

Before I design my combat fleet I thought I find out what tactic is the most favoured amongst space nations of NS. Not that I intend to enter conflicts...but on the off chance that some hostile nation decides to have a go I want to have my ships designed to be effect in combating them.

Also if you could, please post the main kind of weapon system your nation uses & defensive armor etc as well.

This thread (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2498859) is very useful for the workings of space.

While at present Tsaraine has no military spacecraft, if I did I'd be firing smart missiles at very long range, and sticking mines in retrograde orbits to take down specific satellites/stations.

This is OOC but hardly a secret...

The TY standard tactic is to close on an opponment usually in sections. First the Fighter/Bombers are dispatched, not all of them of course, depending on the size of the engagment you can expect anywhere from 100 to 500 Craft in the initial wave. ((Usually one in four are sent on this initial sortie))

These craft usually aim to either engage the enemies own fighters or to do direct damage to the enemie fleet. On the whole the main reason for this sortie is to gain the initive and take the enemy fleet onto a defensive footing, Thus allowing us to choose our targets later. We can also use this time to select the greatest threats to our fleet from the enemie should it be one we have not faced before.

Then we send in the second wave, at this point we would usually send in another wave of Fighter/Bombers escorting and supporting our Pack Hunting vessels. These Vessels hunt in Packs of five isolating enemy vessels from a Fleet and hounding that vessel until destruction. Relaying on their intense speed and manouverabilty to maintain control of the attack. These Packs are more than capable of taking down much larger vessels.

when the battle has reached this stage, we would likely now dedicate the remainder of our vessels, keeping back only a tactical reserve. again these join the basic principle of isolate one enemy vessel until destruction before moving onto a new target. Once again we relay upon speed and manouverabilty to maintain the upper hand. Finnaly we will bring in the Tactical reserve when the battle seems to be in the balance...

well i say finnaly usually we like to keep a sting in the tail, and it is not uncommon for us to keep a fleet outside of sensor range ready to jump into the battle once the tactical reserve has been dedicated. This usually confuses an enemy Admiral and also worries them as where we have one Fleet hanging outside of view it is entirely possible we have a second. faced with this uncertainty we hope to make the Admiral overly cautious. (And it is a very real possibilty) having to defend himself against a threat that may or may not materialise.

Well there you go the basic bare bones of TY fleet tactics. relaying on speed and a powerful anti-Targeting system. As well as powerful and deadly weaponly. Our weakness is in being hit.

You mention Jump..I'm assuming that you ment travelling faster than light, is that correct?

If that is correct wouldn't it be extreamly dangerous to "jump" within a star system? I mean you might hit something or overshoot the target, personally I think it's a bit of a "godmod"(correct term?) to be able to travel faster than light within a solar system as there are so many objects in a solar system to avoid. Plus it makes it impossible to RP a defence as your foe will just appear behind your defenses..... :?

The Solar System is 99% empty space; the distances between worlds are huge. It's pretty much pointless to set up lines of defence in space, as they can be bypassed even without FTL tech.

You mention Jump..I'm assuming that you ment travelling faster than light, is that correct?

If that is correct wouldn't it be extreamly dangerous to "jump" within a star system? I mean you might hit something or overshoot the target, personally I think it's a bit of a "godmod"(correct term?) to be able to travel faster than light within a solar system as there are so many objects in a solar system to avoid. Plus it makes it impossible to RP a defence as your foe will just appear behind your defenses..... :?

Indeed by jumop I mean FTL, and it may be considered dangerous. However the very nature of my force is the rapid raider type attack group. we don't do slugfests on the whole, we do surprises and maintain the initive. Also with an accurate knowledge of where you are going it is a fair enough tactic. (In the Multi-Fleet engagment I will have several Flagships, each of which are equiped with state of the art sensor and tracking equipment. Any of which could transmit the co-ordinates to the vessel jumping in.) In either case Jumping into a Battle has become a tactic widely used on NS, with entire fleets appearing at will anywhere. Your preferance is of course up to you.

OOC: Mecifully for certain people here, (IE, Tor) I very rarely move large fleets anywhere, more to come I suppose.

We prefer medium-range combat. Medium to heavy weaponry to take out automated defenses and such. Deployment of smart MIRV missiles and such. When it gets to close combat, however, then all hell breaks loose. We employ swarming tactics then.

The majority of FCN capital ships have been equipped with overlapping and absorbant shields that rechannel the attacks into the guns of our own ships, thus we use this in reckless charges into the midst of enemy fleets.

Usually though, our medium/small warships make deadly hit-and-run attacks against the enemy, while our heavy warships attack from a distance...

Semi-OOC
The standard Ineffable Spacefleet attack strategy is to sit comfortably in mid-range, and fire a pile of missiles at the enemy. Frigates and fighters usually do the close range work, but several mech designs are being spaceworthily manufactured to allow them to attack at close range, ripping holes in the hull to access critical systems or even take control of the ship. TST has several geosynchronus defence satellites and fighter bays in orbit above it, and Leda Colony has transformed Jupiter's inner lunar system into a deathtrap for almost anything not registered or cleared as an Ineffable or friendly ship.

The Imperial Tactic is to surround the target and bombard it into submission.

Originally i didn´t want to post here, but...

Close range. Why?

The weapons i use. Kinetics. Plasma in magnetic bottles (fired like kinetics, thusly comparable), or photon- based weaponery (lasers etc.), fusion- powered photon- based weaponery.

The kinetics/ plasma based weapons are remarkably slow.

I NEED to be VERY close to actually hit.

Not to mention that i need masses of ammunition. Clearly, i cannot load enough ammunition to make sure i can cover the entire sector in which the ship could be the moment the kinetics arrive. But trying 'one shot: Hits' adventures will fail. So i try to cover a comparably small sector of space where i think the enemy will be once the kinetics arrive.

Now, for the photon- based weapons (laser & the like).

Of course, they are very fast, and at close range, you can bet on (compared to kinetics/ plasma) easy hits. However, there is this energy- problem.

They are low- powered energy weapons. high. powered ones will need obszene amounts of energy, aka bomb- powered. Blow up a fusion bomb, and you have your high. energy deal. Unfortunately, i can´t do that inside my ship, for fairly obvious reasons.

Means, while the photons will travel through space forever, the sector where their energy is high enough to do damage to the enemy is actually fairly small. So, again, close range is necessary.

Of course, there are ways to allow medium range.

The bomb- powered thingy... You can (and in my case, i would) launch drohnes with a nice fusion bomb on board, let them aim at the enemy, blow up the fusion bomb, and let the high- energy laser/ whatever do the work.

However, this is fairly cost- extensive (Even drohnes cost money :P). And it takes time to actually launch the drohnes. I would always go for half a dozen drohnes aiming at a ship to be sure i hit it.

Another thing that is most likely reserved for me and ignored by about half of NS, would be telepathic attacks.

That is, i attack the enemies crew and try to make them babbling nothings. But this, as well, needs close range. In fact, i would need to be closer than with all the other types of attack.

What i, personally, like is the idea of minefields full of aforementioned drohnes & radiation weapons. But this ones can be seen, as the asteorid belt is FAR less full of asteorides than one might think... the only sectors this would be possible in are in fact the orbits of Jupiter, Saturn & Uranus, or, to be more detailed, their rings.

And every shipcaptain ordering his ship to get in there is going to commit suicide, anyway.

Hmmmm so far the majority avoid long range combat....might be an area to focus on then, maybe use large multi-stage missiles (by large I mean 20 meters long ie fighter size) in multiple waves :?:

Also must equip said ships with a few powerful close range anti-capital & anti-fighter weapons....look into ion cannon weapons :?:

Shields...have them :?: but how do they work :?:

Also it seems most of the space navies are heavly influenced by surface tactics & have yet to realise the full potential of space & it's limitations.

Why should we tell out tatics to a bunch of humanlooking cats? :evil:

OOC: I got DOGA and went to designing a fleet. I based it around a ship design capable of firing a shot from up to 2 million km away. These ships are very large. The rest of my fleet is close combat, for if anything gets too close. Better to snipe from a distance.

Why should we tell out tatics to a bunch of humanlooking cats? :evil:

Because most intellergance services will have found out the most basic of your nation military tactics. Also the more often you are in combat the more likly neutrals will have observed & passed on the tacticss you used.

Depending on the ships, the commanders, and the situations, Khristian tactics can be quite diverse.

But usually we prefer close combat and attempting to capture ships. Though usually we'll fire missile volleys, move in slowly, launch fighters, and then the capital ships will support the smaller craft by providing fire support and supplies.

It all really depends....

Why should we tell out tatics to a bunch of humanlooking cats? :evil:

Because most intellergance services will have found out the most basic of your nation military tactics. Also the more often you are in combat the more likly neutrals will have observed & passed on the tacticss you used.

I don't think you could get someone in my nation too easily o.O but um... you probably know some pf my tactics, being the insane, infamous player/nation I am.

Why should we tell out tatics to a bunch of humanlooking cats? :evil:

Because most intellergance services will have found out the most basic of your nation military tactics. Also the more often you are in combat the more likly neutrals will have observed & passed on the tacticss you used.

I don't think you could get someone in my nation too easily o.O but um... you probably know some pf my tactics, being the insane, infamous player/nation I am.

My nation proberly couldn't but another might, & we could get it from them easier than from you. That's why I said most intellegance services would of found out....if you ever had an ally it is possible that their info on you got picked over by another nation & so on :P

Why should we tell out tatics to a bunch of humanlooking cats? :evil:

Because most intellergance services will have found out the most basic of your nation military tactics. Also the more often you are in combat the more likly neutrals will have observed & passed on the tacticss you used.

I don't think you could get someone in my nation too easily o.O but um... you probably know some pf my tactics, being the insane, infamous player/nation I am.

My nation proberly couldn't but another might, & we could get it from them easier than from you. That's why I said most intellegance services would of found out....if you ever had an ally it is possible that their info on you got picked over by another nation & so on :P

We've never had any allies. And we barcode our citizens, rigourous system checks.... quite hard to get anything in ADK.

I prefer the epic close ship combat. The type that harkens back to the pirate days - where huge, lumbering war vessels glide abreast each other, trading broadside after broadside. And don't forget the boarding action......and the looting and pillaging....and......waht was I rambling about again? Oh yeah, and pound them scurvy scum into submission!

A note on missiles - despite many nations claiming to have c-frac missiles (whatever that means :roll: ), missiles capable of taking out most main capital ships would be big lumbering targets, traveling in straight lines, at a very slow speed (relative to say, a railgun shell). Of course, barring the usage of the almighty antimatter warheads........... :roll:

Best ship design - a floating sphere with 360 degrees coverage of gunports. W00t! Either that, or a brick........ :P

Insanly close range.

What does this entail?

My fleet sits and waits for the enemy to appear. As soon as they get a positive reading... 90% of the fighters launch, depending on the range, and the fleet accelerates rapidly.

They do not slow down at all, they cut engines and use thrusters to adjust for the enemy movements. When within close range, braking engines are fired and, quite literally, tens of thousands of miniture Swarm missiles are launched in alternating waves with energy weapons. They are designed to pepper the enemy with thousands of strikes, overloading most energy shields and pulverising armor.

Now.. what happens if a ship loses weapons capability? Simple. The Imperial Totality Fleet crews are trained under the one main rule... win at all costs. The wounded ship turns into the enemy fleet and accelerates as quickly as possible, overloading everything that can explode on the ship right before entering it. The effect, even if the ship does not ram an enemy ship, is quite destructive and disruptive. Not to mention the moral effect...

Imagine... a heavy cruiser based, for example, on the Mon Cal Cruiser exterior specs, ramming into your fleet and blowing itself up. Now imagine a frigate doing the same. Another cruiser. An escort carrier. A dreadnaught...

The Fleet aims to make victory so costly for the enemy, they never, EVER want to start something with us again.

Ask Auman(Anti-Funtism).

A note on missiles - despite many nations claiming to have c-frac missiles (whatever that means :roll: ), missiles capable of taking out most main capital ships would be big lumbering targets, traveling in straight lines, at a very slow speed (relative to say, a railgun shell). Of course, barring the usage of the almighty antimatter warheads........... :roll:

......space the section of the universe where gravity has little impact except in small sections, hence an object moving at speed X will continue doing so until meeting another object or a gravity well.

I fail to see how a missile in space would be slow :?: also they would be able to change course better than a railgun. I don't intend to claim the ability to take out ships with one missile (20 maybe), also I haven't determined the warhead (thinking 1 standoff & 1 contact)but it won't be antimatter.

Takian Tech works in all three distances, the high powered, but less common plasma lances being used for the primary assault, sending their fusion grenades at near light speed for an accurate assault at long range. When the fleet closes to medium range, the nearest broadside is brought to bare, and sheer weight of fire is used to damage or destroy the fleet. At short range, torpedo tubes, boarding ships, bombers and gunships are releaced, as the great distances in space are simply too large to cross at the extreme ranges in a small craft. Also, jumping in system is dangerous, as most planets have extencive satalite defence shields, which can tear apart a disoriented ship, as they tend t obe after FTL travel. Generaly, Takian ships will jump in around the gravity well of the outermost planet, before using sublight engines to move in system. I hope this helps, as I've found this to be the best tactic of all, cover all fronts of assualt.

bump

I perfer to drop out of hyperspace right behind them, open fire, then slowly move backwards to maximum range. fools them, and i can punch holes with MACs at close range.

Before I design my combat fleet I thought I find out what tactic is the most favoured amongst space nations of NS. Not that I intend to enter conflicts...but on the off chance that some hostile nation decides to have a go I want to have my ships designed to be effect in combating them.

Also if you could, please post the main kind of weapon system your nation uses & defensive armor etc as well.

Space Combat...oh man, wow. In reality it is the most deadly form of combat in existance. The range and power of the weapons employed are amazing. It turns into "Submarine Warfare" to the extreme. Long range warfare is the most effective when combined with Powerful weaponry and Electronic Counter Measures, if they cant see you, they cant shoot you. Forget what you've seen on television and embrace the realities of warfare.

"The Lightning Strike" is an excellent tactic, what you do is you find a general location of an enemy ship concentration, point your ships toward it, burn full thrust(Acheiving as much velocity as possible) fly by the enemy all guns blazing. The beauty part of it is, in reality anyway, is the enemy would have little to no time to react so you would do a ton of damage to the enemy fleet while taking little yourself. Though in Forum rp, doing an attack where the enemy cant respond is usually frowned upon. Though if you do it in waves and allow a response to it, Lightning strikes shouldn't be a problem.

...I got this information from various sources.

Insanly close range.

What does this entail?

My fleet sits and waits for the enemy to appear. As soon as they get a positive reading... 90% of the fighters launch, depending on the range, and the fleet accelerates rapidly.

They do not slow down at all, they cut engines and use thrusters to adjust for the enemy movements. When within close range, braking engines are fired and, quite literally, tens of thousands of miniture Swarm missiles are launched in alternating waves with energy weapons. They are designed to pepper the enemy with thousands of strikes, overloading most energy shields and pulverising armor.

Now.. what happens if a ship loses weapons capability? Simple. The Imperial Totality Fleet crews are trained under the one main rule... win at all costs. The wounded ship turns into the enemy fleet and accelerates as quickly as possible, overloading everything that can explode on the ship right before entering it. The effect, even if the ship does not ram an enemy ship, is quite destructive and disruptive. Not to mention the moral effect...

Imagine... a heavy cruiser based, for example, on the Mon Cal Cruiser exterior specs, ramming into your fleet and blowing itself up. Now imagine a frigate doing the same. Another cruiser. An escort carrier. A dreadnaught...

The Fleet aims to make victory so costly for the enemy, they never, EVER want to start something with us again.

Ask Auman(Anti-Funtism).

I remember that...damn fine battle too. Though if your fleet is just as Diehard(like mine was at the time) a selfless ship commander would just ram the offending vessel.

Damn fine battle...

"The Lightning Strike" is an excellent tactic, what you do is you find a general location of an enemy ship concentration, point your ships toward it, burn full thrust(Acheiving as much velocity as possible) fly by the enemy all guns blazing. The beauty part of it is, in reality anyway, is the enemy would have little to no time to react so you would do a ton of damage to the enemy fleet while taking little yourself. Though in Forum rp, doing an attack where the enemy cant respond is usually frowned upon. Though if you do it in waves and allow a response to it, Lightning strikes shouldn't be a problem.

...I got this information from various sources.

Heh ECM doesn't hide you it just makes it harder to hit you, so the chances of approching an enemy undetected is unlikely if you approch it while active. Hence the above tactic would be foiled by the enemy simply changing course & putting stuff in you path (like mines etc), at that speed you won't detect them (the mines & stuff) in time to avoid going straight through the stuff in your path.

I suppose hit and run tactics are the most used by the Aelosian navy, to get advantage from the high mobility and velocity of the Eldar ships propelled by solar light. Usually they lure their enemy into somekind of trap, but mostly they try to avoid direct fire, because the ships are very fragile, although fast and heavily armed, Now the new Admirals trust a lot in ordnance over big guns, deploying huge carriers and bombers squadrons.

Get REALLY long range sensors, as soon as you can detect the enemy's fleet, fire off a huge broadside of really dirty Nuclear missiles. Have them explode far enough from the enemy's fleet so that the CM and the ECM has no effect on your missiles.

Proceed to do this several times and each time, inch (in space terms) the point of explotion closer and closer to the enemy fleet.

At this point, because of all the radiation from the nukes, your opponent's sensors should ammount to about a pile of mush.

Keep an intermitent Barrage up as you close in on the enemy fleet, then send out masses and masses of Fighters to blow the enemy's ships away.

My space nation, though relatively young, divides into two lines: Battle and Bombardment. The Battle Line, comprised of heavy ships with energy and other close in weapons, charges into the gullet to slug it out. The Bombardment Line (Carriers and Missile Ships, with Defense Vessels), does what it's name suggests, and levels fire from far away with large Missiles and Fighter Strikes.

I play by weird FTL rules with long set up sequences, so I rely on prediction and interdiction to combat FTL rapier strikes.

Very long range mostly (1 to 8 million kilometers) because of the missile heavy armaments of the ships i will have in my Space Navy. But then ofcourse there are the energy armaments which are much much more powerfull than the missiles but in turn have only a fraction of their range so in order to use their grasers and lasers, my ships need to close in on 400,000 kilometers.

Ofcourse there is the choice of using cee-fractional missile strikes from the edge of a solar system by merely accelerating to full speed and then launching missiles. But the problem with that is that it cant do absolutely squat against a really mobile target because the missiles will be completely ballistic far before they actually hit their target.

I prefer the epic close ship combat. The type that harkens back to the pirate days - where huge, lumbering war vessels glide abreast each other, trading broadside after broadside. And don't forget the boarding action......and the looting and pillaging....and......waht was I rambling about again? Oh yeah, and pound them scurvy scum into submission!

A note on missiles - despite many nations claiming to have c-frac missiles (whatever that means :roll: ), missiles capable of taking out most main capital ships would be big lumbering targets, traveling in straight lines, at a very slow speed (relative to say, a railgun shell). Of course, barring the usage of the almighty antimatter warheads........... :roll:

Best ship design - a floating sphere with 360 degrees coverage of gunports. W00t! Either that, or a brick........ :P

Ehehe Sketch, thats pretty much how i like to fight too but on a bit longer range than spitting range tough :lol: And with missiles mostly.

Yep, the problem with a cee-fractional (it means that it can move at significant percentage of lightspeed) missiles would be that course changes could only be very minimal. Ofcourse this applies only to weak reaction drive systems and the sort, thank the maker that i use Impeller Wedge which allows for terminal attack maneuvers and target tracking 8)
Capital ships or any starship for that matter wouldnt have to be slow, regardless of size. Remember that in space the only thing that matters is acceleration. A big ship would more than likely have lower acceleration than a smaller ship but it still could accelerate to high speeds. It could be fast but it doesnt mean it could be too maneuverable too.

Nah, i'll still retain the pencil holder box design of my ships thanks :mrgreen:

Hmmmm so far the majority avoid long range combat....might be an area to focus on then, maybe use large multi-stage missiles (by large I mean 20 meters long ie fighter size) in multiple waves

Lets see... first of all, the missiles will need to use masses of fuel. Even when electromagnetically launched, to give them some speed to start with, they`re not much faster than standard kinetics. Means, the same rules as for kinetics apply (I.e. SHORT RANGE). Then, a problem with this missiles: Space combat. Means everyone and his grandma has energy- weapon based point defence. Since it`s enough to hit the missile when it`s, say, a few kilometers away, you need no (really) high energy thingy´s like you need to damage ships, resulting in... ah... your missiles will be shot down. In masses. Wont work, simple as that.

Also must equip said ships with a few powerful close range anti-capital & anti-fighter weapons....look into ion cannon weapons I wonder how Ion cannons work, but since i`m not a reality freak... yes.

Also it seems most of the space navies are heavly influenced by surface tactics & have yet to realise the full potential of space & it's limitations.

You know, there IS a reason i have basic combat formations of six ships to allow three- dimensional attack/ defence tactics...

In past engagements, Kajal has more or less simply put a defensive fleet around some sort of station or other orbital installation that wields a Very Big Gun(TM).

Just ask Melkor. ^_^

The Imperial Kajali fleet is biased towards either extreme long range, ie, using a weapon such as that on the Martian station, or close range, where the majority of the ships can disgorge their fighters and bombers. The word midrange doesn't appear much in the Kajali dictionary.

Hmmmm so far the majority avoid long range combat....might be an area to focus on then, maybe use large multi-stage missiles (by large I mean 20 meters long ie fighter size) in multiple waves

Lets see... first of all, the missiles will need to use masses of fuel. Even when electromagnetically launched, to give them some speed to start with, they`re not much faster than standard kinetics. Means, the same rules as for kinetics apply (I.e. SHORT RANGE). Then, a problem with this missiles: Space combat. Means everyone and his grandma has energy- weapon based point defence. Since it`s enough to hit the missile when it`s, say, a few kilometers away, you need no (really) high energy thingy´s like you need to damage ships, resulting in... ah... your missiles will be shot down. In masses. Wont work, simple as that.

Ahhhhh so you don't think it will work.......hmmmm good nasty surprise for rouge ships from you navy then :twisted:

Really ooc:- mass fire of same type of missile = dumb, mix & match that mass of missiles = some getting through. TG me if you want to know whatI mean by mix & match.

Having not yet faced a Battle in space, nor having a complete understanding of how your vessels operate we have not yet formed a tactic for space combat. However early possibilities are being formed.

As a Must our Spelljammer vessels are going to have to have the weapons ugraded, Mages will be commisioned to increase our stocks of enhanced Ammo, to include a greater number of spells that will be released upon impact. Yet this is only ever going to be a stop gap measure. We need to increase our inpout across the board, and come up with new methods to deliver our magics upon our foes.

Another key issue will be training of a responsible force of Mages for space combat, they will need to specialise in methods of dealing damage upon our foes from distance and of breaking through your armed hull. It is an exiting time for Mages, many of them are even as we speak sitting in their labs calculating and scribling new spells, and ways to modify older ones.

Indiastan tactics dictates generally short-range, hit and run engagements, where the ships will generally exit hyperspace at a high velocity, slash down and rearward agaisnt a fleet, then run like hell for ten minutes while the jump engines recharge. This is also why we put omni-directional weapons along the hull, and rear weapons - both the protect the rear while running, and to guard against others using such tactics. But having not fought us, you don't know that. :)

Having a small fleet with hardly any big time weapons, we prefere ambush,traps,hit and run tactics. Using Mines,lasers,torps and kinetic weaponry to disable or destroy as many of the enemy as we can. The run away as fast as possible hoping that flares,chaff,sheilds and armour will save as many as possible of the attacking ships. So it's getting as close as possible and fire all you got that is the aim..

At least thats the theory, KN has'nt had any armed space conflict for centuries..

Hmmmm so far the majority avoid long range combat....might be an area to focus on then, maybe use large multi-stage missiles (by large I mean 20 meters long ie fighter size) in multiple waves

Lets see... first of all, the missiles will need to use masses of fuel. Even when electromagnetically launched, to give them some speed to start with, they`re not much faster than standard kinetics. Means, the same rules as for kinetics apply (I.e. SHORT RANGE). Then, a problem with this missiles: Space combat. Means everyone and his grandma has energy- weapon based point defence. Since it`s enough to hit the missile when it`s, say, a few kilometers away, you need no (really) high energy thingy´s like you need to damage ships, resulting in... ah... your missiles will be shot down. In masses. Wont work, simple as that.


Depends on the drives really. You are ofcourse generally correct. Reaction engine driven missiles would be horribly slow for they couldnt possibly fit in enough fuel and be of practical size and go fast. But there are other ways luckily. For example, i use Impeller Drive. Its a gravity based drive system with two stressed gravity bands above and below the craft using it. It allows very high accelerations and even larger course changes when in-flight such as terminal attack maneuvers. So, essentially you'll be facing missile fire coming at you at several ten thousand KPS from a million km or more away with the missiles still having drive time left when they reach attack range.
Well ofcourse everyone has energy based point-defense. Lasers are the best choice really, they are lightspeed and accurate if used well. But if you have a missile coming at you at 56,000 kps or more and it can evade, add in to that the fact that its a relatively small target in space, the chances of hitting it arent quite as good as you'd imagine.
And yet to add problems for point-defense energy weapons, bomb pumped laser warheads. There you'll have the power of a nuke in the form of x-ray lasers stabbing at your ship with a stand-off attack range that can be upto ten to twenty thousand kilometers. So no, shooting down missiles that are done correctly aint too easy. Oh and, when there are 50 of those things coming at you....

Hmmmmm it seems alot of ppl have extreamly sophisticated FTL computers that enable to drop amazingly close to their opposition. This will mean we will be at a disadvantage as our FTL system requires us to be outside the solar system before engaging, this is to avoid tearing up due to the gravity shadow cast by the sun & planets in a system. The same reason means we have to drop out of our FTL travel at the edge of a system before we can go further into the system. It takes time for me to leave a system, travel to another then travel into it. I think my FTL system is a bit primative to these other systems.

I think jumping around inside a system reduces the RP value of space travel but hey that me.

Hmmmmm it seems alot of ppl have extreamly sophisticated FTL computers that enable to drop amazingly close to their opposition. This will mean we will be at a disadvantage as our FTL system requires us to be outside the solar system before engaging, this is to avoid tearing up due to the gravity shadow cast by the sun & planets in a system. The same reason means we have to drop out of our FTL travel at the edge of a system before we can go further into the system. It takes time for me to leave a system, travel to another then travel into it. I think my FTL system is a bit primative to these other systems.

I think jumping around inside a system reduces the RP value of space travel but hey that me.

*Raises a hand* I don't have FTL, it's against our religion to build them. So to go into battle is a huge thing of faith on our part..

Hmmmmm it seems alot of ppl have extreamly sophisticated FTL computers that enable to drop amazingly close to their opposition. This will mean we will be at a disadvantage as our FTL system requires us to be outside the solar system before engaging, this is to avoid tearing up due to the gravity shadow cast by the sun & planets in a system. The same reason means we have to drop out of our FTL travel at the edge of a system before we can go further into the system. It takes time for me to leave a system, travel to another then travel into it. I think my FTL system is a bit primative to these other systems.


Ok this is starting to sound VEEERY familiar. You seem to like missiles in space, ok thats nothing new several sci-fi series have done it. But now even this, let me guess, have you taken some ideas from David Webers Honor Harrington? If im wrong then i apologize but somehow this sounds a bit like it for in HH too they rely heavully on missiles and every solar system has a hyper limit created by the star so that before jupmping to hyperspace, the ships need to be at the hyperlimit.

Not that it would be a bad thing in the slightest if your source of Space combat would be Honor Harrington for i use it heavully myself and i think it has a kick ass space combat style.

well not actually having fought a real (see intro thread to see what I mean) we prefer ambushes where we can get around behind the enemy ships adn hack away at their engines causing two effects 1) blow up or badly damaging their engines, or hitting the reactor causing even bigger boom or 2) damaging the engines and hitting their "powerlines" causing the ship to lose most likely complete power to all systems killing the crew.

tha leaves the ship in prime condition to later be salvaged for our own personal use after it has new engines and such replaced.

Now I'm going to give you all a thorough rundown on how the ITDO fights space wars. Wait, no I'm not. :P

Speaking personally though, I like close range just because it's more interesting to me. I grew up playing classic games like Pirates! too. Arrr!

My caveat for NS space is that unless you're hiding behind a planetary object, there is no such thing as stealth. I say that because I know someone somewhere is gonna "pop up out of nowhere" and "surprise attack" my fleet using their "stealthy" ships and expect me to go "OMG STEALTH, I LOSE." Unless they're hiding behind a planetary object or a long long long way away, but then that's not technically stealth.

Oh there is stealth SB. Space is pretty damn big. Even a 4 kilometer warship would be as hard to find as a needle in a thousand hay-stacks if it went passive on all systems and engaged stealth systems that reduce its emissions. Ofcourse, it couldnt maneuver or go active or otherwise it would be found. And i think that most people seem to mis-understand or overestimate the power of stealth. If you have some sort of systems engaged and you're using propulsion, then stealth is only going to help you to get un-detected to some distance from the enemy, even if the enemy is as blind as a bat, you're not going to get to spitting distance from them by saying "i got stealth!".

well not actually having fought a real (see intro thread to see what I mean) we prefer ambushes where we can get around behind the enemy ships adn hack away at their engines causing two effects 1) blow up or badly damaging their engines, or hitting the reactor causing even bigger boom or 2) damaging the engines and hitting their "powerlines" causing the ship to lose most likely complete power to all systems killing the crew.

tha leaves the ship in prime condition to later be salvaged for our own personal use after it has new engines and such replaced.

Otherwise a good plan but...

1)Not everyone has ships where there are huge engine nozzles sticking out from the back.
2)Only an idiot would place the reactor of their warships anywhere near the outer hull, better for it to be deep in the ship.
3)You will only get a single salvo, then your enemy will turn and engage you.
4)You need to be accurate, and in order to do that you need to be close, in order for you to be close without the enemy seeing you is either by being damn small and having piss poor chances of actually damaging a large enemy ship at all or then lying doggo, all systems offline and so on so that there are no betraying emissions but even then, you would be detected via LIDAR or some other system which does not need you to have active emissions to see you.

Post 666, eh Clairmont?

Anyhow, the Emperor's ships can engage the opponent from any distance. Cloaking, huge cannons, small turrets, fighter compliment...there are no limits to Steel Butterfly warfare.

(Hense why I don't get involved in all out war very often. My nation is very far future. However, I'm planning a civil war...)

Well, depends on how far it is, and where it is, and who is looking for it with what. My point is, you could be stealthy, but you'd have to be completely passive as well as being oh, I dunno, a good couple million kilometers at least away. And you'd have to get to that position of passiveness by being active first...

Xha'dam's tactics are classified for security reasons.

OOC: I had writen a nice long responce clairmount but mr evil forums hates me so I have to rewrite this (short version)

1)when that situation comes up my fleet usually then changes it's focus to the bridge, or if there is no visible bridge then we try and drill a hole into the hull

2) while I may of accidently (sorry) made you think we target the reactor in it's self,we don't think of it this way, you want to cut the power to a city but all you have is a gun, adn a wireclippers, your not gunna go to teh power plant and blow it up with those two things, your gunna find the powerline(s) that connects the powerplant to the city disabling it from there, my tactic works in much the same way. hope that cleared it up

3)with smaller ships yes but that might be enough this tactic is more targeted at the larger ships that need longer to turn and drilling away at them.

4) nope no stealth, basically it uses the element of speed to get in there (some weapons will be able to hit them of course) taking the lumps as they go this combined with attack from multiple sides and fient manuvers can be devastating I think.

I'm older space tech I like a challenge, the more there is to lose and gain the more epic it is, sure you cna have those super shields that block everything but your mothers meatloaf and weapons that make the deathstar have manhood size issues but the more challenge the funner I say.

Tag for interest
~NavInt, People's Navy of Vernii

OOC: I'll post my tactics later.

OOC: I had writen a nice long responce clairmount but mr evil forums hates me so I have to rewrite this (short version)

1)when that situation comes up my fleet usually then changes it's focus to the bridge, or if there is no visible bridge then we try and drill a hole into the hull

2) while I may of accidently (sorry) made you think we target the reactor in it's self,we don't think of it this way, you want to cut the power to a city but all you have is a gun, adn a wireclippers, your not gunna go to teh power plant and blow it up with those two things, your gunna find the powerline(s) that connects the powerplant to the city disabling it from there, my tactic works in much the same way. hope that cleared it up

3)with smaller ships yes but that might be enough this tactic is more targeted at the larger ships that need longer to turn and drilling away at them.

4) nope no stealth, basically it uses the element of speed to get in there (some weapons will be able to hit them of course) taking the lumps as they go this combined with attack from multiple sides and fient manuvers can be devastating I think.

I'm older space tech I like a challenge, the more there is to lose and gain the more epic it is, sure you cna have those super shields that block everything but your mothers meatloaf and weapons that make the deathstar have manhood size issues but the more challenge the funner I say.

1) I know there are people who think that Star Destroyer style bridges are cool, sure they are but they are also tactical blunders on the grand scale. My ships atleast have their bridges deep inside the ship.
2) Ah ok good for clearing what you meant. Still there is a problem, this method would need the entire power of the ship to run in one or two big power lines, and that again is a tactical blunder. The vessels i use (the best example i know, sorry :lol: ) for first thing have propulsion related hardware all over the ship which means that there are dozens of large power cables running around.
3) Not necessarily, sure a small ship turns faster than a large one but thats a matter of drives really. And the ship doesnt necessarily need to turn a whole 180 degrees to attack, a mere 45 to 90 degrees to bring its broadside to bear.
4) At the end, this method would be more costly for the attacking force than the defender for before the attacker could get close enough to do anything meaningfull, the defender would have allready had lots of time to fire. And the situation gets even worse if you obey Newtonian Physics instead of Wing Commander flight model in space.

No shields. I dislike the typical "shields" as main line of defense anyway. I use Sidewalls. They are basically a gravitic wall placed at both sides of a vessel. They dont absorb fire as typical shields do, instead they deflect it and basically do what gravity does. But they cannot be depleted like typical shields can, they can only be brought down by destroying the generator. But the sidewall does not stop everything, lightspeed weapons which are strong enough can burn thru the sidewall. And after that is yet armor. Ofcourse i still have electronic warfare and point-defense systems but those are more against missiles.
Indeed, the more challenge the more fun i agree completely. Thats why i intend to use tactical doctrines on the most part to defeat my enemy, not über tech.

it might have it's flaws no doubt about it but everything does, as for number 2 I've been thinking about that I'll have to develop some devices for that :twisted:


but forgive if I'm wrong but don't lasers travel at the speed of light since they are just focus beams of light (given not all lasers are).


and hey every stategy can work if your thinking to steps ahead with alot of imagination.

Ok this is starting to sound VEEERY familiar. You seem to like missiles in space, ok thats nothing new several sci-fi series have done it. But now even this, let me guess, have you taken some ideas from David Webers Honor Harrington? If im wrong then i apologize but somehow this sounds a bit like it for in HH too they rely heavully on missiles and every solar system has a hyper limit created by the star so that before jupmping to hyperspace, the ships need to be at the hyperlimit.

Not that it would be a bad thing in the slightest if your source of Space combat would be Honor Harrington for i use it heavully myself and i think it has a kick ass space combat style.

Yes I know it's similar to the Honor Harrington series because I have nearly every single one of the novels :P But I am not basing it entirly on HH as I can't make those ships on Doga hence I just borrowing the things I like. Just remember that you should avoid having your T crossed :wink: also you can't have any forward momentum if you close it :) . I'm not going to use impellers for my ships so I won't have that problem :P

my tactics are quite simple.

1) pull all forces to an opposite side of an asteroid field there for leading them into it
2) while crossing release space mines into the field(pause for Evil Laugh)
3) when the enemy enters the field, release the fighters! (another evil laugh)
4) went whats left comes back (which is not much), open fire.

So do that and you should be ok

Well, we prefer to sit at a medium range and employ precision shooting tactics. Such is the joy of having Particle Beam weaponry...tight, narrow beam with high shield and armor penetration. The capital grade PBC can pinhole most of the toughest armors, causing hull breaches. Several well placed shots can effectively cripple ANY ship or facility, once explosive decompression kicks in. PBC technology also has a nasty after-effect due to it's intence EM radiation pulse incorporated to keep the beam coherent. Once the range has diminished to close range combat, our smaller ships, and fighters swarm, using GRC (Gravitic Rail Cannons) tech. GRC's and miniturized PBC's are also utilized for poinit defense on capital ships and stations. Missiles are uncivilized, the fire-and-forget thing isn't for us...we prefer to pull the triggers and witness our enemies demise. Our ship shielding isn't too bad, based mostly on re-engineered forcefield tech...most kinetic weapons and high yield explosive weaponry are roughly 30%-50% effective. More to come on our compliment of ships and stations...as well as deep-range colonizations and ship research.

"The Lightning Strike" is an excellent tactic, what you do is you find a general location of an enemy ship concentration, point your ships toward it, burn full thrust(Acheiving as much velocity as possible) fly by the enemy all guns blazing. The beauty part of it is, in reality anyway, is the enemy would have little to no time to react so you would do a ton of damage to the enemy fleet while taking little yourself. Though in Forum rp, doing an attack where the enemy cant respond is usually frowned upon. Though if you do it in waves and allow a response to it, Lightning strikes shouldn't be a problem.

...I got this information from various sources.

Heh ECM doesn't hide you it just makes it harder to hit you, so the chances of approching an enemy undetected is unlikely if you approch it while active. Hence the above tactic would be foiled by the enemy simply changing course & putting stuff in you path (like mines etc), at that speed you won't detect them (the mines & stuff) in time to avoid going straight through the stuff in your path.

Electronic Counter Measures is a catch all term pal. A Cloaking device from Star Trek is ECM, Stealth systems on the F-117 is Electronic Counter Measures. It still stands though, if you cant hit your enemy and he can hit you, you are going to lose. Space combat is usually finished in seconds as the the damage done to your ship is tremendous when it is struck in space. When your hull breaches, game over man, because the sudden change in pressure would destroy a huge portion of the vessel.

Never been in a really long-term engagement, but if I was, Eniqcir would use the following tactics:

1. Lob rocks (or tungsten blocks, more likely) at large, hard to move things (like, say, 4-klik long UberShips, asteroids, and planetary colonies) from a very large distance away.
2. If ship-to-ship is required, stay at medium range as long as possible, employing BSG-style speromak plasma cannons to take out capships, and a combination of Thermonuclear Graser Stovepipes and guided missiles on smaller things. Avoid deep-space engagement whenever possible.
3. If the enemy comes in close range, or their defenses are just way too good for mid-range missiles to work, continue surgical missile and stovepipe attacks in addition to launching fightercraft, armed with blue cutting lasers and DU bullets to rip up the enemies hull on close strafing runs, as well as knocking off possible enemy fighters.

In the way of defense:
Capships are armed with point-defense lasers, automated machine guns firing DU rounds (or compressed graphite, in some cases), and HPDs for transmuting, shoving about, rippping apart, and generally causing the operators of fightercraft or missiles to have a very bad day. In contrast to cinema-style ships, Eniqciri vessels do not have all their weapons on the front, and therefore don't have to turn around to engage the enemy. Armor consists of very thin artificial diamond plating, ceramic / fused regolith reinforced with nanotube fibers, non-newtonian fluid (think ublick), and another layer of diamond, with heat-exchangers running through the whole deal to a big block of ice near the middle of the ship.
If the situation is truly dire, a last-dith move is to generate an Alcubierre-Broeack bubble around an unmanned fighter, but not accelerate it to superluminal velocities, instead manuevering it inside an enemy ship and then releasing the bubble, at which time the extreme gravitational gradient rips the interior of the ship into its constituent subatomic particles, releasing a buttload of energy.

i have already got enough on my plate and i don't have the time thinking about space combat.

The longer the range, the greater the margin of error to correct for; even if you had missiles that could travel over a million kilometers, the odds are the missile would get noticed and/or shot down before it could get close enough to do any damage...
I think the best method is the high-speed swarm method; get several thousand fighters using singularity generators and phased particle beam projection cannons, and even if you decide to play around with the fabric of space-time by erecting a massive gravimetric field around your ship (ignoring the fact that gravity applies to whatever's INSIDE the field as well as OUTSIDE, and probably would affect the inside moreso because of the fact that the ship is surrounded 360 degrees by gravimetric distortions), you're not going to be able to shoot ALL of them down before they cause some serious damage to your ship.
Broadside combat is nice and all, but you'd need tremendous numbers of arrays to win an extended engagement against heavy armor or a more nimble enemy; I prefer to go broadside only to launch boarding craft and then just take the enemy ships. If I can't beat your ships, surely your ships can beat your ships... :mrgreen:

Hrmm...

I'm not quite a space nation yet, but I think that when I am, the Wyrmish philosophy* will result in us concentrating on short-range destruction.


*"If one gun isn't enough, add a few more."
"Bolt another engine on and see if it goes faster."
"Tactics? What tactics? Ram him!"

even if you had missiles that could travel over a million kilometers, the odds are the missile would get noticed and/or shot down before it could get close enough to do any damage...
Not if it flies silent (read: ballistic). The chances of noticing a relatively tiny, and black if the manufacturer was smart, fast-moving missile against the huge background of space is not high. Especially in deep space, which is one of the reasons I prefer to stick near planets.

(ignoring the fact that gravity applies to whatever's INSIDE the field as well as OUTSIDE, and probably would affect the inside moreso because of the fact that the ship is surrounded 360 degrees by gravimetric distortions),
If the field surrounds you on all sides, you'll be pulled on from all sides, and the net effect will be null-g. Which is why there would be no natural gravity on the inner surface of a Dyson Sphere.

Broadside combat is nice and all,
Broadside combat approaches the realm of the idiotic. Why present more surface area to your enemy than you absolutely have to? Goes nose-on whenever possible, I say.

Eniqcir, it depends on how the gravimetric field is set up; from what I've heard, people just throw up a distortion in the way of whatever's attacking them. This kind of field will destroy the ship because of the tremendous disturbance... And then there's the issue of the gravity well accelerating particles into the ship, not decelerating them; you're thinking of anti-gravity, which is dark energy and not something anyone knows a lot about without resorting to "because I said it works". That's why I steer clear of gravity where possible, because it's the universal force that humans know the least about, yet it's the most abused of the forces in NS... :?

I'll give you the silent missile thing, but there ARE other spectrums besides infrared and visible light; ever try scanning for known metals across the other parts of the spectrum?

Lastly, broadside combat is best for bringing significant firepower to bear on the enemy, but you should resolve to making quick passes instead of sitting dead in space having a slugfest with the other ship. Either you finish it quickly or your ship is done, end of story. Nose-on reduces your profile but also knocks off 40%+ of the amount of firepower you can bring on target.

Broadside combat?
In my opinion, it's not a good idea, unless your opponent is rather stupid.
This isn't 1700; it's easy to mount lots of weaponry on your bow.

Now, ramming...
Ramming is practically suicide. Ramming someone is going to do you as much damage as you do to them, unless you've got a specially reinforced frame.
Now, it's possible that you could survive ramming someone, but you're certainly going to lose atmosphere, forward RCS, forward weaponry, etc.
Also, you could get so tangled with the other ship that you can't move.

We're capable of engaging enemies at multiple ranges, but we're most effective at medium and close range. Our Slipfighter class vessels are excellent for combating enemy fighters or for swarming larger enemy vessels, and can also serve as extremely effective (and expendable) frontrunners, rushing en masse into an enemy defensive line and firing their cluster missiles to clear a path for the main fleet. Sabre class vessels operate best at close range, as they have very little in the way of missile/torpedo armament. They use mostly phasers and disrupters to take the target down. Dreadnaught class ships are at their best at medium range, using their heavy weapons to beat enemies into submission while dodging what attacks they can and taking the rest with its strong shields. Super Dreadnaughts are vulnerable at close range because of their slow speed and poor maneuvering ability, but they are excellent for orbital bombardment and medium to long range assault on a target. Eclipse class vessels are effective at any range, but are at their best at medium range. Their vast array of weaponry and nearly impregnable shields make them most useful for supplementary assault in fleet battles. Unfortunately, their immense size (eighteen kilometers in length) means that they can be easily defeated by large numbers of small warships. For this reason, they always have escorts. The Apocalypse class is rarely launched, and has never in history actually faught. In the final hour though, when all else is lost, it can deliver a beam blast capable of destroying any object, regardless of armor and shielding on the target.

The longer the range, the greater the margin of error to correct for; even if you had missiles that could travel over a million kilometers, the odds are the missile would get noticed and/or shot down before it could get close enough to do any damage...


That's what tracking and terminal attack maneuvers are for. And there are things like penetration aids and electronic warfare in missiles too you know, making it more likely that they will get where they need to get to.


I think the best method is the high-speed swarm method; get several thousand fighters using singularity generators and phased particle beam projection cannons, and even if you decide to play around with the fabric of space-time by erecting a massive gravimetric field around your ship (ignoring the fact that gravity applies to whatever's INSIDE the field as well as OUTSIDE, and probably would affect the inside moreso because of the fact that the ship is surrounded 360 degrees by gravimetric distortions), you're not going to be able to shoot ALL of them down before they cause some serious damage to your ship.


Ofcourse, this has absolutely no relevance whatsoever to a planar gravitic distortion band where the effect of gravity is in that single plane only.


Broadside combat is nice and all, but you'd need tremendous numbers of arrays to win an extended engagement against heavy armor or a more nimble enemy; I prefer to go broadside only to launch boarding craft and then just take the enemy ships. If I can't beat your ships, surely your ships can beat your ships... :mrgreen:

Presenting your broadside allows you to bring more weapons to bear but at the same time it gives the enemy more target surface. And if an engagement is fought with missiles, presenting a broadside is rather necessary because most likely otherwise you cant launch enough birds to saturate the defenses of the enemy.

even if you had missiles that could travel over a million kilometers, the odds are the missile would get noticed and/or shot down before it could get close enough to do any damage...
Not if it flies silent (read: ballistic). The chances of noticing a relatively tiny, and black if the manufacturer was smart, fast-moving missile against the huge background of space is not high. Especially in deep space, which is one of the reasons I prefer to stick near planets.

A ballistic missile would be really hard to detect indeed, but at the same time its accuracy would be lousy if the enemy was moving at all. It wouldnt be capable of doing any terminal attack maneuvers or adjusting its movement to hit the target. And something like LIDAR would pick it up anyway and then when the PD starts firing, it couldnt do squat.

Now against immobile targets its a whole another matter.


Broadside combat is nice and all,
Broadside combat approaches the realm of the idiotic. Why present more surface area to your enemy than you absolutely have to? Goes nose-on whenever possible, I say.

Umm, to bring most of your weapons to bear on the enemy? Presenting more target surface doesnt matter anyway if you're fighting with missiles because they can execute terminal attack maneuvers (if smartly designed) to hit the enemy nevertheless.

A ballistic missile does'nt really need accuracy, get enough of them in the path of the enemy and they drive into them. :D

Broadside combat?
In my opinion, it's not a good idea, unless your opponent is rather stupid.
This isn't 1700; it's easy to mount lots of weaponry on your bow.


Nope. The more surface, the more guns you will have. Think about it, can you mount more torpedo tubes on the bow of a submarine than on the broadsides of it? 95% of all the space craft i have seen ever have much more side profile than forward profile which results in more space for weapons.

Besides, by presenting your broadside you're also bringing more of your shipboard point-defense systems to bear on any possible incoming projectiles.


And really people, at ranges of several million kilometers, whether you show 400 meters of target profile for the enemy, or 4 kilometers, there is little difference.

flipping etherial or going to warp.
space combat is for the most part just plain silly.

=^^=
.../\...

Eniqcir, it depends on how the gravimetric field is set up; from what I've heard, people just throw up a distortion in the way of whatever's attacking them. This kind of field will destroy the ship because of the tremendous disturbance... And then there's the issue of the gravity well accelerating particles into the ship, not decelerating them; you're thinking of anti-gravity,
Whether I'm thinking of antigravity or "normal" gravity doesn't matter to the point I was making- that is, within a 360 degree field, the net effect is zero. Whether or not such a shield would make a good defensive mechanism is an entirely different matter, on which I agree with you.

I'll give you the silent missile thing, but there ARE other spectrums besides infrared and visible light; ever try scanning for known metals across the other parts of the spectrum?
Yes. But consider this: 360 degrees of space to scan, vs 1 second of arc containing a blacked-out missile, with nothing to silhouette it against. The chances of looking in exactly the right spot are slim.

Nose-on reduces your profile but also knocks off 40%+ of the amount of firepower you can bring on target.
40%+? That depends on the ration between side/forward profile areas, and the way that your weapons are distributed.

A ballistic missile would be really hard to detect indeed, but at the same time its accuracy would be lousy if the enemy was moving at all. It wouldnt be capable of doing any terminal attack maneuvers or adjusting its movement to hit the target. And something like LIDAR would pick it up anyway and then when the PD starts firing, it couldnt do squat.
Why couldn't it do terminal attack manuevers? Just because it flies ballistic most of the way doesn't mean that it can't have thrusters and go active at the last few moments. And for LIDAR/RADAR to detect it, they have to be pointing at it.

Umm, to bring most of your weapons to bear on the enemy? Presenting more target surface doesnt matter anyway if you're fighting with missiles because they can execute terminal attack maneuvers (if smartly designed) to hit the enemy nevertheless.
Hence using things like Stovepipes. Also, if the enemy's missiles can steer around and hit me on the side, my missiles can sure as heck launch from the side and steer around to the front.

And really people, at ranges of several million kilometers, whether you show 400 meters of target profile for the enemy, or 4 kilometers, there is little difference.
'Tis true. But here I thought we were talking about close range.

Why couldn't it do terminal attack manuevers? Just because it flies ballistic most of the way doesn't mean that it can't have thrusters and go active at the last few moments. And for LIDAR/RADAR to detect it, they have to be pointing at it.

Course changes take time to generate, atleast large course changes do, in space. And the thing gets even more trickier if the missile is going extremely fast. The point is that the missile will need to atleast use its drives on the start and on the end of its flight. In start to create enough velocity to actually have a realistic chance of hitting the enemy and in the end for terminal attack maneuvers.

Thats what several detection arrays are for. 2 to 4 for port/starboard and dorsal and ventral sides and 1 to 2 to aft and stern. That way, you'll have coverage fully around the ship.

Hence using things like Stovepipes. Also, if the enemy's missiles can steer around and hit me on the side, my missiles can sure as heck launch from the side and steer around to the front.

As in off-bore launching. Works, but the thing is that if your missile launchers use some sort of mass drivers to give the missiles a good initial velocity, the missiles will need to overcome that velocity first before they can take on to the new heading. If you merely point your broadside at the enemy, the missiles will have a relatively straight flight to target and thus more time to accelerate.

'Tis true. But here I thought we were talking about close range.

Well i meant generally, but meh.

Course changes take time to generate, atleast large course changes do, in space. And the thing gets even more trickier if the missile is going extremely fast. The point is that the missile will need to atleast use its drives on the start and on the end of its flight. In start to create enough velocity to actually have a realistic chance of hitting the enemy and in the end for terminal attack maneuvers.

Thats what several detection arrays are for. 2 to 4 for port/starboard and dorsal and ventral sides and 1 to 2 to aft and stern. That way, you'll have coverage fully around the ship.

Inertialess drives of Eldar ships compensate the course changes, allowing the ships to turn almost "in the spot". Of course, Eldar ships aren't propelled by engines, but by Solar Sails. Anyway, against missiles or torpedos the holofields do the job.

Course changes take time to generate, atleast large course changes do, in space. And the thing gets even more trickier if the missile is going extremely fast. The point is that the missile will need to atleast use its drives on the start and on the end of its flight. In start to create enough velocity to actually have a realistic chance of hitting the enemy and in the end for terminal attack maneuvers.
But it's the time in between when you have to worry about pre-detection, and then the engines don't have to be running.

Thats what several detection arrays are for. 2 to 4 for port/starboard and dorsal and ventral sides and 1 to 2 to aft and stern. That way, you'll have coverage fully around the ship.
But each emitter/reciever can only look at one place at a time. Having more arrays means that each one won't have to cover as much area, but it will still take a very long time to look at every second of arc around the ship, and once you're done the target would have moved. Visual is, IMO, the only way to efficiently detect small incoming objects, but even that won't work if they don't reflect much sunlight.

As in off-bore launching. Works, but the thing is that if your missile launchers use some sort of mass drivers to give the missiles a good initial velocity, the missiles will need to overcome that velocity first before they can take on to the new heading. If you merely point your broadside at the enemy, the missiles will have a relatively straight flight to target and thus more time to accelerate.
Why bother giving them high initial velocity if it's in the wrong direction? Just give them a nudge out of the ship sideways, and once it's clear of the launcher have it determine a heading and use it's own engines, so that it's never powered in any direction other than the way to the enemy anyways.

Tactics- well, hmm...... (this is strictly OCC right?) first, the LRR fleet fires a barrage of torpedoes from long range, and then starts to move into antimatter and ion cannon range, where the ships usually use their high manouverability to try and evade heavier enemy weapons. This tactic usually works, especailly because LRR ships don't get off the drawing board if they can't outmanouver other ships. However, this sometimes does not work against missiles, in which case the PD clusters and newly-installed hutchinson effect generators would hopefully protect the ship from missiles. The shields are mostly geared to absorb particle beam weapons, and sometimes stop missiles. The main LRR fighting ships are Battlecruisers, Torpedo Boats, and bombers, with fighters acting as anti-bomber and bomber escort craft. You might notice that destroyers are not included in that group. Although they are very usefull in battle, and are an important part of every LRR battegroup, they are geared more for patrol, but are nontheless usefull in an engagement.

A goal of LRR engineering has been to disable enemy ships without actually destroying them. We have always been somewhat touch when it comes to killing people, so a major portion of every LRR fleet is the Sherpa squadrons, which are designed to rescue escape pods, disabled fighters, and even ships up to 400 meters long, in sufficent numbers. Another important part of an LRR fleet is the hospital ship. (Note, an LRR fleet consists of combat, science, resourcing, and trade vessels. But normall science and trade operate independent of the main body of ships.)

LRR hospital ships are built to take casualties from even the largest battles. It has always been an ambition to be known as better doctors than warriors.

But anyway, LRR ship designs are usually very robust. Sensors arrays give full coverage around the vessel. A popular LRR manouver is the flat turn, which is essentially when the ship changes direction by quickly applying all of the inertia rudder to the direction of the turn, and then re-equivalating the rudder so the ship doesn't go into a spiral. This manouver has proven applicable to almost all LRR ships, right up to the very largest.

But you'll find that LRR ships tend to avoid battles unless in very large fleet, since they are much smaller than other vessels of analogus design. LRR has always been constrained by a somewhat lesser economy than other space nations, so LRR ships are, as a rule, smaller than their counterparts. Whereas the Abraham Lincoln class battlecruiser is almost 500 meters long, other ships which perform the same tasks might be twice or three times that size.

Primary LRR propulsion systems are antimatter reactors, for the larger ships, and fusion drives, for fighters, frigate-size vessels, and detroyers. LRR weapons systems are mainly antimatter cannons, which are usually targeted at the other ship's weapons and propulsion systems. The Abraham Lincoln class mounts its 20 antimatter cannons on the twin engine nacelles, which give it total coverage around the ship. Ion cannons are used on fighters, torpedo boats, and destroyers, which are usually less powerful but also less of a strain on their powerplants. Point defense is taken very seriously in LRR, and it has always been LRR fleet doctrine to live and let live wherever possible. Laser point defense nodes and EM shields have done the job for years, but they are slowly being phased out by hutchinson effect devices.

But of course, the LRR fleet has never had to fight anyone alone, and we don't really plan to. Because most other space nations, some even younger, could kill us pretty easily. The only time the LRR fleet would ever make a stand is if the WWSETI planet is attacked. But since LRR is nomadic, nd since nobody knows where the WWSETI planet is except WWSETI guys, thats unlikely.

So, in short, I'm the best!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 :D

Medium/long range arsinals are good to keep around but you might want extreme long range weaponry, and on the idea of using hyperspace and lightspeed, who would care if their weapons entered this area, however to enter a ship into warp would be plan stupid because the time slow as speed increases and also gravity is another factor that most people forget, for instance, a particle of light from a star will either bend or slow as it passes by a planet.

as for the tactical weapons my nation is attempting to build, the capital ships are to carry both enrgy and conventional weapons, sub-space anti-mater muntions, as well as an aray of EMP and neutron weapons.

The ideal thing about the neutron warhead is why damage a ship if you can take it for you own. The implementation of these weapon would be to send out "destressed ship" signals and detonate them either within the hull or near the hull of an enemy ship, or lay one on a metior that will likely pass the enemy vessel.

Another thing I like to do is inform you people (unless they cant read) that they may recieve amnisty and large somes of $ for exchangeing there vessels and giving information about tactics.

Laser point defense nodes and EM shields have done the job for years, but they are slowly being phased out by hutchinson effect devices.
Reference? That's a rather major development which would certainly catch the Guilds' attention.

Laser point defense nodes and EM shields have done the job for years, but they are slowly being phased out by hutchinson effect devices.
Reference? That's a rather major development which would certainly catch the Guilds' attention.

Here's the explaination link:

http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Thinktank/8863/HEffect1.html

Credit for the idea goes to Taka, who used it to decimate one of my destroyer squadrons.

My ships are remarkably tiny in comparison with others. Perhaps in the hundreds of meters. I guess I just never felt the, how shall we say, need. Plus, since I design each one myself, I don't put in tons of extra space just for the sake of bigger numbers in the ship stats, I just put what is neccessary and keep things as tight and efficient as possible.

The newest Abraham Lincoln class battlecruisers are 475 meters long. (Official length)

They had to be lengthened for the integration of a larger cargo bay. LRR has around 70 Abraham Lincoln class battlecruisers, all pending upgrade to Fredrick Douglass subclass standards.

The biggest LRR ships are, not counting space stations, the Orion class destroyers, bought from Klonor at around 2 kilometers, the Michael Strogoff class battlecarriers at around 2.5 kilometers (basically a giant flying saucer.) the Edmond Halley at five kilometers, and the Hiding Out at 20 kilometers high and 4 kilometers wide.

But since all LRR ships double as freighters and science vessels, there's gotta be some cargo room! But still, LRR ships tend to be smaller than others. While the battlecruisers are not exactly tiny, they are a good deal smaller than ships of analogus function. Although I use pictures from homeworld, the insides of my ships are mostly my own design.

Laser point defense nodes and EM shields have done the job for years, but they are slowly being phased out by hutchinson effect devices.
Reference? That's a rather major development which would certainly catch the Guilds' attention.

Here's the explaination link:

http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Thinktank/8863/HEffect1.html

Credit for the idea goes to Taka, who used it to decimate one of my destroyer squadrons.
No, I meant a reference in-game to your using them. I already know what the Hutchison Effect is. HPDs (Hutchison Point Diverters) are my main defensive weapon, hence the Guilds' being interested.

I'd prefer to open the combat by finding my enemies before they knew I was there, beyond that I try to be somewhat versatile, but my ships DO carry large amounts of Assault Infantry when sent out for battle.

But it's the time in between when you have to worry about pre-detection, and then the engines don't have to be running.

True.

But each emitter/reciever can only look at one place at a time. Having more arrays means that each one won't have to cover as much area, but it will still take a very long time to look at every second of arc around the ship, and once you're done the target would have moved. Visual is, IMO, the only way to efficiently detect small incoming objects, but even that won't work if they don't reflect much sunlight.

It doesnt need to look at one spot for ages, firstly have a single array contain several actual LIDAR emitters, after that have them rapid-scanning their given arc.
Ofcourse the whole point would be that there are enough of the LIDAR emitters to detect virtually anything coming to its detection arc and range.

Why bother giving them high initial velocity if it's in the wrong direction? Just give them a nudge out of the ship sideways, and once it's clear of the launcher have it determine a heading and use it's own engines, so that it's never powered in any direction other than the way to the enemy anyways.

Hmm, ofcourse it works that way too. The only problem with off-bore launching that i can figure is that you wont have as much drive time left in your birds than you would have if you just launched them straight at the enemy.

Laser point defense nodes and EM shields have done the job for years, but they are slowly being phased out by hutchinson effect devices.
Reference? That's a rather major development which would certainly catch the Guilds' attention.

Here's the explaination link:

http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Thinktank/8863/HEffect1.html

Credit for the idea goes to Taka, who used it to decimate one of my destroyer squadrons.
No, I meant a reference in-game to your using them. I already know what the Hutchison Effect is. HPDs (Hutchison Point Diverters) are my main defensive weapon, hence the Guilds' being interested.

Oh. Well, there hasn't been a chance to use them yet. They're newly installed.

Any references to them being installed, then? Or, perhaps more importantly, any references that it would be possible for the Guilds to know about?

Foe Hammer Vessels, upon contact with Enemy vessels, initiate a Blindsider, where the entire fleet initiates a Pinpoint jump and ends up with half the fleet 1,000km ahead of the vessels and 1,000km behind.

My ships are remarkably tiny in comparison with others. Perhaps in the hundreds of meters. I guess I just never felt the, how shall we say, need. Plus, since I design each one myself, I don't put in tons of extra space just for the sake of bigger numbers in the ship stats, I just put what is neccessary and keep things as tight and efficient as possible.

Aumans smallest standard frigate is a little over 30 metres...they have one big gun and loads of drones, that and they are small and easy to produce so there are lots of them. In other words, Cardboard.

Well Tannelorns navy performs well in all Ranges, as it is designed to be a planetary assault force, therefore its anti planetary/ship guns are not only incredibly powerful but have incredible ranges. though Medium range is bad as the big guns are not as accurate then, they are very accurate at long range and short range, but totally innacurate at medium range. Tannelorn does not use computers but human computers instead, and they have massive redundancies. only three classes frigate of the naval troopers [marines and elite special forces of one of the healthiest citizens on mars, number two i believe heh heh] Cruisers which only carry 50 fighters and carriers which carry 400. Each ship has a bunch of masers and missiles, one ingeltstung for carriers and cruisers, addition of loengren [turreted larger ingelstung, more accurate not spinal mounted]

The fleet is carrier based and the tannelorn armed forces really are based on the hideous number of morgenreate transformable fighters with GE'd pilots [morgenreates have two modes high speed interceptor and humanoid combat unit, heavily armed and extremely maneuvarable it is the main line fighting unit in the TAF, think Gundam Seed, the army is small and based around giant robots...its not a gundam though...]

Any references to them being installed, then? Or, perhaps more importantly, any references that it would be possible for the Guilds to know about?

LRR ships are undergoing refitting at all capable facilities, namely the drive yards in WWSETI orbit, mobile shipyards, Starchaser Bases, and battlecarriers.

It doesnt need to look at one spot for ages, firstly have a single array contain several actual LIDAR emitters, after that have them rapid-scanning their given arc.
Ofcourse the whole point would be that there are enough of the LIDAR emitters to detect virtually anything coming to its detection arc and range.Conceded.

My ships are remarkably tiny in comparison with others. Perhaps in the hundreds of meters. I guess I just never felt the, how shall we say, need. Plus, since I design each one myself, I don't put in tons of extra space just for the sake of bigger numbers in the ship stats, I just put what is neccessary and keep things as tight and efficient as possible.
Perhaps getting a bit OT, but most of my ships also are small and utilitarian, with the exception being Supercrusiers, though I've got less than ten of those. Whenever I build something large, it's usually just because 1g of rotational gravity requires a 224 meter radius unless you want nauseated crewmembers, and contains a lot of empty space and scaffolding.

LRR ships are undergoing refitting at all capable facilities, namely the drive yards in WWSETI orbit, mobile shipyards, Starchaser Bases, and battlecarriers.
References? Threads?

My ships are remarkably tiny in comparison with others. Perhaps in the hundreds of meters. I guess I just never felt the, how shall we say, need. Plus, since I design each one myself, I don't put in tons of extra space just for the sake of bigger numbers in the ship stats, I just put what is neccessary and keep things as tight and efficient as possible.

Aumans smallest standard frigate is a little over 30 metres...they have one big gun and loads of drones, that and they are small and easy to produce so there are lots of them. In other words, Cardboard.

Nah that's not cardboard. Cardboard would be if they were 3 kilometers, and you claimed they were small and easy to produce and in large numbers. :wink:

Eniqcir: I don't think it's really offtopic. But yeah, none of my ships have gravity, except when accelerating (hence the general design being like a building, with the engine being the foundation). The main reason being that it's much easier to design ships like this than have to make them rotate and produce gravity, but also zero gravity is so fun! :hork:

what tactic is the most favoured

Not being anywhere near anything else that might jump out and shout "Boo!"

WN

Kinda off topic... But what would be considered godmodding for intergalactic civilizations? What point do you draw the line? Fractional C relativistic speeds for ships? Instanteous weapons allowing battles from light years away? The use of singularities? What?

OOC:

The Donimion of Kanuckistan favors medium range, tho a Superfortress would be quite happy to alpha-strike a few hundred missiles of mixed payload at you from the other side of the star system.

We maintain a small, yet extreamly potent fleet(only 10 capital ships, but they're all fleet-killers; I'll only be detailing those), Mounting a few obscenely powerful cannons, and a swarm of lighter batteries; the latter, combined with FTL sensors, creates a fighter/missile kill zone around the ship several tens of thousands of kilometers deep. Weapons favored are effectivly lightspeed particle beam weapons(well kinda/sorta), with an effective range generally around 5 lightseconds(tho beam propigation speed makes it hard to hit anything very mobbile at that range), unmanned fighters for stand-off and picket-duty, and missiles(bomb-pumped laserheads and proximity warheads) for stand-off attack. Omnidirectional Gravy Guns are also mounted as an ultra-short range weapon, with an effective range of just 5000km, but they can kill just about anything instantly.

Defences consist of thousands of fast-tracking point-defence guns, subatomic particle lattice(SAPL) armour with active energy sinking and integrity fields, planetary-grade standing barrier-fields, and a projected, ultra-high gradiant gravitic spatial inversion field, but the later has fairly limited coverage ability, tho it can deflect just about everything.

In addition, their primary FTL is augmented by an inertialess, realspace drive capible of sublight and low FTL speeds, giving immense tactical freedom; also, there are over a half-dozen different FTL inhibitors, and wickedly powerful FTL and lightspeed sensors(the advantage is that no one can sneak up on me; the trade off is that they light me up like a christmas tree, to the point that you'd be hard pressed not to spot the me from three systems over).

General tactics call for the ship to extend FTL inhibitor fields out to 300'000 km to prevent the enemy from droping in(probally suicidal, but too much of a risk), engage with stand-off missiles and fighters at multi-MSK ranges if possible, then open up with beams as soon as the enemy gets within 5 lightseconds. Keeping the enemy on one side is also desirible, as it allows the inversion field to deflect most of the incoming fire.


Now, remember that that's just 10 ships that make up the bulk of my naval power. Quite potent, cheaper to operate than an armada of equal power, and less likly to suffer losses in men and equipment in general operations and light combat, but losses really, really hurt. My navy's potent as hell, but the inability to replace lost ships could kill in any protracted conflict with a major power.

Eniqcir: I don't think it's really offtopic. But yeah, none of my ships have gravity, except when accelerating (hence the general design being like a building, with the engine being the foundation). The main reason being that it's much easier to design ships like this than have to make them rotate and produce gravity, but also zero gravity is so fun! :hork:
Mixing acceleration and centripetal gravity on the same ship leads to some very cool interior designs. My saucer-type ships and StarFish have corridors that spiral out from the center and which have floors that ore bowl-shaped instead of flat, because the direction of gravity can vary over 135 degrees.

Xha'dam's tactics are classified for security reasons.

Something tells me i know exactly what this tactics are, though :P

Kinda off topic... But what would be considered godmodding for intergalactic civilizations? What point do you draw the line? Fractional C relativistic speeds for ships? Instanteous weapons allowing battles from light years away? The use of singularities? What?

I would have to say that anything that can't be stopped would be a godmod. Takian ships use Quantum Singularity Generators for power on all of the larger ships, however, we only have two ships cappable of harnessing that power as a weapon, and even then they simply turn the gravitational pull of a singulary against a target, rather than projecting one into it, as that would be a hellish godmode. The fastest weapons we have are light speed weaponry with our laser batteries, and .99 C on our Plasma lances, however something powerful enough to strike and deal damage at such great ranges is few and far between on our ships. simply put, its a godmod if it can't be stopped.

"We prefer the use of medium ranged tactics before closing in with short range fighters.Our big ships openup with Pulsar weaponry and missile weaponry before disgorging swarms to finish off the lesser craft that are too hard to target from long range."

-In The Flames of Hostility That Become Him,Lord Admiral Gero-

http://www.satanstephen.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/flagz0r.gif


Traileric Empire:Proud Member Ofhttp://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-12/554152/AAAAcopy.jpg

OOC:(Yes...my nation is ruled by an Admiral..)

Kinda off topic... But what would be considered godmodding for intergalactic civilizations? What point do you draw the line? Fractional C relativistic speeds for ships? Instanteous weapons allowing battles from light years away? The use of singularities? What?

I dont think that cee-fractional speeds are godmoddery yet, its mostly a matter of acceleration afterall. Well absolutely instantaneous hitting weapons from several light-seconds away is IMHO godmoddery but lightspeed weapons are not. Afterall, lasers and grasers both for example are lightspeed.
IMHO singularities also tend to move bit to the area of godmoddery.

I may not be a space nation (yet), but I plan to use Star Wars craft when the time comes. I'm a sucker for Star Wars craft, even though they may not be the best around.

Space warefare is no different from any other form of warfare: that is, a combination of all tactics will always result in the best outcome. We use several long range cannonships in the rear, to cover dropships landing infantry on the larger capital ships hulls. At the front is generally several cruisers and/or battleships, each carrying a few hundred fighters, which are deployed to confuse enemy sensors and cause general chaos.

Also, always remember that it is space - ie, there are THREE dimentions in which to move - ships need not be stationary or lined up in a single axis, instead attack from all directions in a "bubble" formation.

Most of our ships are medium-short ranged though, since capital ships are large and expensive.

My preferred tactic for fleet combat is a wall of battle. It's pretty much capital ships arranged in a rectangle, spread out 200 km from each other. Escort warships form a loose half-bubble around it, serving as an anti-missile screen and engage lighter enemy targets. The formation accelerates toward the enemy, and when it reaches missile range (1.5-2 million km) the ships turn to present their broadsides and open fire. Their own velocity would continue to carry them toward the enemy, so eventually they reach beam range (500k km).