NationStates Jolt Archive

I have no idea on how i figure my army size or strength and how much money my new nation has.

Is there anyone out there that can help me?

This is an RP question
Try in NS or II forums.

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The Most Serene People's Republic of Naleth
"Life is a suicide mission"
Shameless Plug for Adelaide (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=display_region/region=Adelaide)

In both cases, assume "very small." As a new nation, you don't have the resources or the manpower to field much of a military. That isn't to say you can't have cool toys and gadgets in your military (purist whinging aside), but you're not likely to conquer anybody with them.

One fellow has a slanted GDP calculator here (http://www.pipian.com/stuffforchat/gdpcalc.php?nation=The%20Zakarum&defenseprovided=1&defense=20&militarybudget=1). I say "slanted" because it adds bonuses for high civil rights, and a lot of people (mostly those with poor civil rights) object to that. Sunset and a few others have been working on an Excel spreadsheet to work out numbers for militaries. It's still a work in progress, but The best I've yet seen. http://www.pacifier.com/~cziller/PBMC.xls

Both resources should be used as guidelines and not hard-and-fast rules. There are no rules in open role-playing other than "play nice with the other children" and "there's no way to win this game."

That spreadsheet doesn't take into account the varying technologies, only the type of technology... It makes an inaccurate assessment of hardware capabilities, since the HS3602A personal combat armor system is probably one of the most difficult to kill designs I've ever conceived, yet since the program doesn't take that kind of technology into account, it could end up costing the same as a regular soldier in modern technology.

Your best bet is to avoid military matters completely until you have at least 200 million people, and do a ton of research in the meantime; if you go future tech (like me) you'll have people calling you a cheater and a godmoder, you'll have to fend them off with sharp sticks and a working knowledge of the technology you're using, and if you go modern-tech, you're going to deal with stat whores who wank to Jane's books every night and demand that you account for every single shell casing in a battle or else you're cheating/godmoding.
Part of the above was satire, guess which part and amaze your friends!

In both cases, assume "very small." As a new nation, you don't have the resources or the manpower to field much of a military. That isn't to say you can't have cool toys and gadgets in your military (purist whinging aside), but you're not likely to conquer anybody with them.

One fellow has a slanted GDP calculator here (http://www.pipian.com/stuffforchat/gdpcalc.php?nation=The%20Zakarum&defenseprovided=1&defense=20&militarybudget=1). I say "slanted" because it adds bonuses for high civil rights, and a lot of people (mostly those with poor civil rights) object to that. Sunset and a few others have been working on an Excel spreadsheet to work out numbers for militaries. It's still a work in progress, but The best I've yet seen. http://www.pacifier.com/~cziller/PBMC.xls

Well I just downloaded and I have to say it is VERY Useful for just a prototype, yo umust have put quite a bit of time into it... Kudos!
Both resources should be used as guidelines and not hard-and-fast rules. There are no rules in open role-playing other than "play nice with the other children" and "there's no way to win this game."

So in fact there is no solid way to say exactly waht you have, so its what you say goes?
And does that also apply to these technologies you are speaking of?

So in fact there is no solid way to say exactly waht you have, so its what you say goes?
And does that also apply to these technologies you are speaking of?

So in fact there is no solid way to say exactly waht you have, so its what you say goes?
And does that also apply to these technologies you are speaking of?

Yes, to a limited degree. Do not over do it.
I use the pipian calc above for my economy (and plan to do that by hand soon too) and calculate the military by hand. One rule of thumb - 5% of your population, or less for military now, dropping off as you grow.. Once you reach 50 million or so, keep it to around 1%.
Tech is very open, but again don*t go overboard.

All in all keep it reasonable - no *I have 50 bajillion troops all with impervious power armor, death ray super lasers, and personal ICBM launchers tipped with nukes* and you should do ok. Remember that how you play is more important.

I use the rule of "If you can explain it without 'i said so', you can use it." That has a lot of issues, particularly with high technology, but I feel that if you take the time to research a given technology, you should be allowed to use it in an RPG; this will probably get you called a godmoder until you reach at least a Powerhouse economy and 200-300 million population. Just remember that everything has a weakness, even the stuff that I build; it's just not painfully obvious because I don't go around advertising how to kill my own troops!! ;)

If you decide to make your own stuff (I reccommend this, it is great fun!) you must try to keep it realistic. It must have weaknesses.
For instance, the standard CF powered armor is powerful against the average rifle round (up to 7.62mm) but it can't take repeated hits from larger weapons. And the standard version is vlunerable to energy weapons. Not to mention its 'vlunerable points' like the large helmet and bottom of the feet. And it is pretty vlunerable to explosives too.

Or take a big laser (like Klonor's) it can't really target little ships too well, so bombers can just streak in and blow the destroyer/whatever into kingdom come!

Everything must have a weakness.

So, you want to build a military ...

If you want to avoid being IGNORED to smithereens, your best bet is to build up gradually, and make lots of posts explaining what your country's military is doing.

There are few hard-and-fast rules, but lots of guidelines and suggestions. Here are a few tips:

Pick a tech level.

Doesn't matter what your tech level preference is, there are probably several dozen other players with the same preference. Pick one. Stone-age cave-dwellers to far-future ubertech employing Clarke's Law (any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic), Tolkeinian fantasy to hard-wired Warhammer 40K- anything goes. The most important thing is to be consistent and do your research.

Start small.

No matter what tech level you choose, you are not going to be capable of going on a program of conquest at the beginning. Your primary military focus should be on defense until you're well above 75 million population. If you're playing Star Trek technology, you will not have a fleet of Galaxy-class starships when you start out- or even one. You start out with 5 million people. Some of the really large nations have more soldiers being discharged every day than your entire population. When you start out, you're a mouse at a cat show (or an Elf at a Troll convention). Keep a low profile.

Build a history.

I'm not talking about inventing a history of your country (although that's a very useful tool for roleplaying). What I'm talking about is creating the background for whatever military force you're building. Make posts to the effect that your nation is accepting bids for building a new type of fighter plane. Follow that up with a brief description of the aircraft you're building and issue a "press release" (another post) indicating that XYZ Shipyards has won the bidding and construction is underway. Later on, you can state that the first squadron-sized unit of the new fighter plane has entered service.
This creates a history of what you are doing and what you have to do it with. Keep copies on your hard drive of every post (including the link to the posts and the date they were posted)- mostly to prove to the inevitable sore losers that you do indeed have what you claim to have.

Make friends.

Small nations attract bullies. Find a larger nation who's willing to help keep you alive while you're getting started. Being allied with Melkor- for example- will likely keep most of the warmongers at bay. Among other things, your ally can also let you in on helpful tips about several of the unwritten rules of the game.

I recommend that you go to the stickies at the top of the first page in NationStates and International Incidents. A lot of newcomer questions have already been answered there. Make note of nations whose posts you found most useful and keep them in mind for further questions. Not every older nation is run by an arrogant jackass - just some of them.


TEO

Two things:

First: Of course the PBMC doesn't say 'Excellent' Infantry = "Uber-Suit of Death". It would be horribly clumsy (and a huge assumption on my part) to specify every 'Excellent' unit from period to period.

The technology levels are also a guide, nothing more. As long as 90% of your technology fits within that general era, great. I'm not gonna force anything on you. I could, but then no one would use it.

Second: It is good to know what your technology is capable of, but don't fret over it too much. Roleplaying is about telling a story, not about showing off your shiny technology. Throwing numbers at each other doesn't tell a story - the numbers can facilitate telling the story but they should not be the story.

If you RP war (and I have done so, doing both a good and bad job of it) you do NOT have to get into the gritty details of how many rockets are fired, etc. Everyone has a different idea of how many missiles constitutes a 'massive barrage' so why add a number to said barrage? It adds nothing to the story (other than the 'OMG You have too many missiles you godmodder!' factor) and can be left out as long as you RP with reasonable people who are more interested in telling a good story than showing off their fancy technology.

EDIT: The part about reasonable people to RP with? Put some more emphasis on that.

The technology of my country is that of a modern nation today.

I am currentyl purchasing 10,000 m16's and various other mg's and sniper systems.

I also have a contract with another nation for the construction of an aircraft plant or two with plans on making other military plant other a 10 year period to help boost my economy and help to arm my country.

As for these abbreviations, ie PBMC, i have no idea what they mean, and probably dont have the money or tech for those sorts of items yet.

But thank-you for your help.

OOC: PBMC=Point Based Military Creator. It's the spreadsheet Treznor linked to earlier.

What I might suggest, and what I do myself, is make a thread that you post to every couple days with important (at least to your nation) developments. This can be everything from guns to tax increases but it will give you a record (as mentioned earlier) and a good place to work out your writing style. Plus if someone wants to see what you RP like you can point there as long as you do some RP in it.

But even if you say you make a tax increase is there any way to change waht it says in your nation profile?

I will post my nations updates in my own region's forum.

The Empire of Kehjistan Kurast

No, but it can help explain those sudden tax increases. Your national stats can provide a good source of RP material. A sudden tax increase for military spending (quite common) can be written up something like this.

---MNN News Broadcast---

"And in financial news tax rates are expected to rise next year in responce to the President's new 'Plowshares to Swords' initiative. The big winners are expected to be the defense contracting industry. Nearly all military purchase plans were doubled for next year. I have Mark Wilson, our Military Analyst, to give us the breakdown..."

The camera turns to Mike.... blah blah.

---End Broadcast---

Simple to do, but it can give you both good writing chops and good military chops in the same post.

Two things:

First: Of course the PBMC doesn't say 'Excellent' Infantry = "Uber-Suit of Death". It would be horribly clumsy (and a huge assumption on my part) to specify every 'Excellent' unit from period to period.

The technology levels are also a guide, nothing more. As long as 90% of your technology fits within that general era, great. I'm not gonna force anything on you. I could, but then no one would use it.

Second: It is good to know what your technology is capable of, but don't fret over it too much. Roleplaying is about telling a story, not about showing off your shiny technology. Throwing numbers at each other doesn't tell a story - the numbers can facilitate telling the story but they should not be the story.

If you RP war (and I have done so, doing both a good and bad job of it) you do NOT have to get into the gritty details of how many rockets are fired, etc. Everyone has a different idea of how many missiles constitutes a 'massive barrage' so why add a number to said barrage? It adds nothing to the story (other than the 'OMG You have too many missiles you godmodder!' factor) and can be left out as long as you RP with reasonable people who are more interested in telling a good story than showing off their fancy technology.

EDIT: The part about reasonable people to RP with? Put some more emphasis on that.

Oi...the PBMC, Im still trying to figure that one out. It doesn't pay to be a high school drop out. :roll:

Yes well if you havent heard there has been a gold rush in my region

anyone who want to gain money i am selling right to mining and however much you pay you can mine 1.5 times that amount in gold. example you pay 1 mil you can mine 1.5 mil

my total budget after this gold rush so be substantial to pay for a better army.