NationStates Jolt Archive

I am starting to wonder if moderen tech play is becoming impoossible. I see way too much space/fantasy stuff that I do not want to play with. I have had trouble starting modern tech RPs recently. And someone commented on a recent AMF thread that he was haveing trouble in hes RPs due to ignoring future tech. So does anyone play realistic modern anymore, or am I just wasting my time?

Well, I do...and so does Pantera and a few other "veteran" nations (although Pantera is hardly ever on due to RL BS). I will admit, it is abit....odd...having September nations in space with fleets and such, and I'm still using tanks and bullets. The ratio of modern/space nations is horridly tipped in favor of space, like 4:1, maybe even higher.

Modern tech is getting harder to play.

Overall, I would agree. Too many people's implementing future (land) tech (Super-fast kinetic missile, optical cloak, plasma rifle, gauss cannon, etc.) or/and even future space tech (space ship obviously) it has indeed been difficult to find some true modern tech RP (no, not even those Mach 5-7 kinetic missile, hypersonic bombers, etc.) with only modern tech equipments.

But, nonetheless, there is still a whole "community" of modern tech RPers, and many are excellent RPers (I could name Evil Overlord, Western Asia, etc.). And there are quite a few excellent strictly-modern tech war RPs if you check International Incidents forum (despite what some may call it as a "n00b forum" or "junk RP forum", just look there carefully; I'm in an excellent modern tech war RP myself. It is possible).

I'm in an excellent modern tech war RP myself. It is possible).

No offense, but CSJ is a stat whore. If the muzzle velocity on your rifles is too high, he'll call you on it. Stat wars suck as much as n00b wars.

(I love modern tech. It doesn't supply for my favorite type of warfare, that used in WWII, but modern has its points. Future tech is annoying. People just love their space fleets and ray guns though.)

After playing around with space tech (wank wank wank), I think I'd rather play with modern. At least I can depend on knowing what the hell the other guy just did.

After playing around with space tech (wank wank wank), I think I'd rather play with modern. At least I can depend on knowing what the hell the other guy just did.

At a boy Sketch! :wink:

OOC:

Of course it's becoming harder since if one decides not to interact with future tech (or at least says "Hey! Let's negotiate on the tech levels") because many future tech nations (not all, mind you) say, "Dooode! You aren't a good RP because you don't want to interact with me." WTF?

Then the "negotiation"process usually degenerates into a bitchfest since one doesn't want to give up their uber-intercontinental-stealth-Mach 99-ablative plated-lazer tipped-superconductive-ICBMs that can be launched from a MECHA that can go 0-speed of light in 3 seconds.

edit: Why? Because the lines are a bit fuzzy to begin with.

On the other hand, I interact with future tech nations and have no problems with it - since most of them are good, honest dudes. Basically, I stated this before and I'll state it again - it's a mad mad future tech race. Why, we all should become god-like beings of light floating about and laugh at the ants called humanity. Yeah, that's it.

For a possible "modern tech" war - look to what might happen between the UE and the FKC. If it ever does go that is. Who knows?

edit: There are also "realistic" future tech guys like Santa Barbara, Wazzu, etc... As well, I don't want to step on anyone's toes because I don't think this is the place for an argument between those who try to design their tech "realistically" and those who want to tell a story. Both have their place and perhaps a person needs to know beforehand what they are getting themselves into.

Personally, I still remember when Kalessin showed up on my borders and I thought "Ah great. Flying dragons. What the hell tech is that?"

Any "future tech" that I have might be found in civilian applications or in some kind of support/research role for the military. I don't understand all of modern tech and so I try to stick with what I know.

Pisses me off when someone comes into a modern war throwing around lasers and ortillery. I just hate ortillery plain and simple.

Well, it just comes down to the people you RP with!
personaly prefer near future tech, and if im doing Space tech, I sually use a 'Cinematic' style, I dont spend half a day computing the tracking speed of one of my turrets while spouting physics formula to the nth degree.

Yeah! All these nations running about these days claiming to have land-ships and flying machines, the ability to communicate with people in different countries without actually going there, and carriages that require neither horse nor rail. It's utter lunacy, says I.

I'm in an excellent modern tech war RP myself. It is possible).

No offense, but CSJ is a stat whore. If the muzzle velocity on your rifles is too high, he'll call you on it. Stat wars suck as much as n00b wars.
Well, at least he's more "open" now. Not a problem right now in that particular RP. Aside from that, I wouldn't say it ever got into some kinds of stats war.

Then the "negotiation"process usually degenerates into a bitchfest since one doesn't want to give up their uber-intercontinental-stealth-Mach 99-ablative plated-lazer tipped-superconductive-ICBMs that can be launched from a MECHA that can go 0-speed of light in 3 seconds.
Well, I don't really see this happens often (at least, with the exception of someone having to throw around "modern-tech" 2040-ish hypersonic bombers). But as long as it doesn't actually interferes with the modern tech RP (i.e. to a point when one of the origional organizers of the RP starts to complain and go with the future tech person), it is manageable.

Well, at least he's more "open" now. Not a problem right now in that particular RP.

Good, because he can get bad at times, and I have seen him get a little pissy over stats in your invasion thread.

OOC:

Egad! I have hypersonic bombers but I use them to shuttle my walruses around. But then again, if someone don't like them, I'll make them ride a regular jet. No problem.

I should also add that I also have one "future tech" puppet but I don't dwell too much on the science for that one. It's just for fun stories and also for mocking purposes. Besides, if things get sticky I try to either research anything I'm not sure of myself or ask someone who might know.

I am starting to wonder if moderen tech play is becoming impoossible. I see way too much space/fantasy stuff that I do not want to play with. I have had trouble starting modern tech RPs recently. And someone commented on a recent AMF thread that he was haveing trouble in hes RPs due to ignoring future tech. So does anyone play realistic modern anymore, or am I just wasting my time?

I do. I may have some stuff that is a little advanced but certainly not future tech. I am about 2005, which is rather modern. (post 2012).

Then the "negotiation"process usually degenerates into a bitchfest since one doesn't want to give up their uber-intercontinental-stealth-Mach 99-ablative plated-lazer tipped-superconductive-ICBMs that can be launched from a MECHA that can go 0-speed of light in 3 seconds.
Well, I don't really see this happens often (at least, with the exception of someone having to throw around "modern-tech" 2040-ish hypersonic bombers). But as long as it doesn't actually interferes with the modern tech RP (i.e. to a point when one of the origional organizers of the RP starts to complain and go with the future tech person), it is manageable.

OOC: Ah...good point. Always good to address problems right away. I do like the wise practice of having an OOC thread running parallel to the IC thread as a place for people to talk things out without cluttering up the IC story thread.

I'm modern. Actually all of my nations but New Haaregradia(future) and Satyricon Deep(forgotten realms/dnd3e) are modern.

I play what I can only call post-modern, b/c it allows me room to expand my tech creatively and still hold to "real" rules. I use guns (from the M16 to the OICW), and I have normal tanks and aircraft, but I do have some scifi-ish weapons (like the C&C inspired Ionic Tether (justified by the tethered satellite expirements in the mid-1990s) and the AC4 inspired MADAE (think stonehenge)) but these are story devices more than real weapons, and I only use stuff that can be traced from modern tech and concepts. Basically, I use what the US military COULD look like in about 20 years.

Why? Because in strict modern tech, you get reamed by people with almost-modern tech and people with "i know everything" tech knowledge. With the postmodern setting, I can create better, more wide ranging plots... while not having to deal with Mechs, Lasers, Ortillery, and the ever present laser-eyed, rocket-propelled, nuke-launching, gene-engineered supersoldiers.

Modern military is fun. Im staying modern military and nothing will change it. The Greatest technology i would have is Orbitals that can fire rockets and thats it. Oh and i have a small...really small colony on the Moon.

<---- modern

I, too, find it overwhelming when a lot of the players are flying around in speeds of multiple c, while I'm sitting here eating trout in a basket while travelling around Zeronia in a horse-drawn carriage. Maybe that's an exaggeration on my part, but you know what I'm trying to say. Despite this recent, but continuous influx of space tech nations, I still see modern RP threads popping every so often. And in some RPs, mixing of tech levels doesn't have to be an issue.

I'm not a major RPer on the forums, so I haven't had many compatibility problems. I acknowledge nearly every nation's existence, but when I become involved my rule is: as long as future tech nations have earth territory and don't rub obviously future tech stuff in my face (i.e. Zeronia: Please bring a delegate to the Zeronian summit! Future Tech Nation: Okie dokie! Just let me nanowarp through hyperspace, land at your terrestrial rocket space port, and I'll beam my holographic androidal AI supergenetic delegate into the conference room in no time! :o ), then we can do business.

FYI: I play Zeronia in 2003/2004, but the technology available in my nation spans most of the 20th century (1935-2004). Hell, the most powerful non-governmental computers out there are equivalent to RL computer tech in the early 90s. My space interests consist of two satellites. I have yet to put a zeronaut into space.

Well, I'm not going to touch future tech really. I prefer modern, just, with my modifications (reasonable modifications, my nation is building all of it's own stuff now)

There has been a definite loss in the ratio of real/modern tech to future/impossible tech players (there is a distinction for realistic near-modern tech that is not of great detriment...and realistic future which is interesting)...and a loss of good, involving, and exciting RPs and RP tales.

Older nations that can cooperate and RP well together have too many ties to really form new conflicts with each other (no, the 23rd and 1/2 war between RF and GDODAD or ADK doesn't really count... :D ). The one reason to like GDODAD "back in the day" was that they'd attack new groups of people regularly...it threw some spice into the mix.

Right now, a lot of the serious players are bogged down with Jr or Sr year of high school or college or pre-and post-holiday work schedules...I hope for a renewal by about march.

I know I'm sort of new, but I can have an opinion, can't I?

I play a mix of future and fantasy, mostly. (A bit odd? Not really...)

My opinions on:

Realistic Future: Can be fun, but can also be boring ("OK, I've launched the battlegroup to Mars.. now to wait a few months so it arrives...")

Semi-Realistic Future: This is what I prefer. Hyperdrives & such, but limited. (IE, no inertial compensation. I've broken Einstein's laws, I'm not about to break Newton's.)

Unrealistic Future: Bah.

Modern: Can be great fun, I'm sure, but it's not what I play.

Fantasy: Again, can be great fun, but I prefer to use it sparingly.

WWII-Era: Dunno about this. I guess I'd say my opinions are the same as Modern.

Old: Wooden ships, pirates on the high seas, etc. Same opinion as Modern.


Now, I'm kind of spread out over Fantasy, Semi-Realistic Future, Modern, and WWII-era. It's a bit awkward.
For example, I've got eight spacecraft*, but most of my airforce is made up of P-51D Mustangs and similar vintage.
Most of it's substantially modified, of course; we're good at that sort of thing.

*Four of Klonor's Fireflies, a Bumblebee from Klonor (being modified),
two SSTO shuttles, and a Orion-type vehicle that's never been used, and hopefully will never be.

I love modern tech. But I don't see many World War I RPs around.

Im glad there are people that still remember the great world wars. :D

Right now, a lot of the serious players are bogged down with Jr or Sr year of high school or college or pre-and post-holiday work schedules...I hope for a renewal by about march.

OOC:

What is wrong with people? Do they not know that nation-stating is more important than school? Or work? Or sleep? Or food? Curse them! :D

Modern has been destroyed by stat wars. That's why I play post-moden.

Thanks for all that reassurance. i was starting to get depressed.

Out, out, rpers, shoo!

*gets broom*


:D


:arrow: NationStates.

Yeah, why is this here? :?

Well, I've got no problem with modern tech Rpers. And I do understand that it's hard to RP modern tech here, it is. But looking at modern tech warfare, it seems like there are just a ton of statwhores. Now, I'm not a real future tech space nation. No, the only space weapons I have are SDI and a couple of space shuttles with Kinetic Energy Weapons in the payload bay instead of a satellite. Basically ASAT. The silly thing is, there are about a million godmodding morons making spaceships that use totally ridiculous weapons for Ortillery where you could get the same amount of firepower by dropping a 5cm wide, 1.5m long ceramic coated DU rod from orbit and get the same amount of damage. (Hiroshima bomb level. I'm serious.). So me? I'm 2006-2070 as far as tech goes. It's a wide range. One one hand, most of my Air Force isn't anything you won't read about in Dale Brown and Stephen Coonts, save for Pulse Detonation engines. Big deal. On the ground, I've got realisic small arms, and armor, with the main difference being that my nation follows the doctrine of "information is ammunition" very closely, so we've got a lot of communications and "Land Warrior" stuff. The only exception in ETC weapons, which the US Army plans to have out by 2010 (Although I'm experimenting with SCRAMjet rounds and EM weapons).
But my point is, I'm a future tech RPer, and I'm not a godmodding whore. Although I have some technologies that are a couple decades off, I won't use them unless you use them, or attack me. Because what really pisses me off is modern tech nations getting angry and declaring war on future tech nations, and then saying they're godmodders.

The game shouldn't be about who has the latest technology, since it's totally subjective what is 'latest' or not when it comes to certain 'technologies' around in NS, and what these things could actually do. But on the other hand, technology shouldn't be ignored for purposes of plot or laziness or whatever. It's a fine balance. I'm trying not to get lulled into the dark side with plasma megacannons and uber FTL drives sold inside of cigarette cartons. But I also try to be openminded when it comes to RP, and maintain good RP form, and ICly it becomes hard to justify why my ships use "inferior technology." So the temptation is there, but I'm trying to remain pure...

I haven't actually RPed any battle action yet but I'm developing Realistic NEARBY Future, that is what I think fits into the Max's novel. I improved several now-days designs and my country is starting production (I finally got my economy back on track)

I use far future for a simple reason. The first guy I ever rped with told me his modern tech stealth planes were invisible to any and all radar stations i had on my coast. Which effectively made him invincible for the purpose of that RP. I couldn't see his planes, I couldn't do anything more than have my F-15s fly in a circle. This didn't make for good rp and I didn't enjoy it.
So I upgraded to near future, stealth aircraft, improved sensors, HyperSoar and AGP. Same thing happened, the next tech level on refused to admit vulnerability in any way shape or form.
Moving to far future was the simplest solution I could form. I don't use much of far future tech, I'm not running around in space, I don't have OMG GRAVSHIPS!!!!1!, but I do have the ability to shut down anyone who starts pulling godmods out of their ass. Future tech can be defeated. Hit a Britmattian squaddie in power armour with an RPG and he's just as dead as you'd want. And I haven't seen anyone who uses all future, all the time. My atmospheric aircraft for example are essentially +2 versions of their modern counterparts, as opposed to the ULTIAMTE FLYGHTERS I've seen people claim the goddamn *Raptor* to be.
People pick their tech levels for a variety of reasons, bemoaning the death of modern tech won't help. perhaps you could try cleaning house a little first eh?
Incidentally, Vrak, you better not ignore future tech in a UE vs FKC throw down, it'd be an awful shame to waste the hours I've spent plotting your walrussy destruction old son :P

I RP mostly modern tech, though I'll admit I have my space tech too because I hate to miss out on a RP opertunity.

Personally I view all my future tech as easy to get rid of for a modern tech battle. I may have my army equipped with Gauss Rifles, but they have not IC effect on the field beyond that of any other weapon, they are used because they are cool and I like the technology... they can also become closer to the actual point of the technology when fighting future tech nations... eitherway it makes no difference.


My beef isn't with the slowly dying out present die technologies... but with the lack of logistic understanding that the new technology brings. Lets face it, you may have future tech, but you can't claim your own system because it's damn hard to defend (being an entire system) they assume that because they have future tech they can have a thousand capitol ships and not have to spend countless amounts of resources to build them.

It's my view that as it stands, a younger nation with space tech still can't fully invade Iuthia (and we still use normal tanks and ships) because we can still beat their ass when it comes to logistics and numbers... we don't have to fly 20 lightyears to get to the battle and we can deploy our troops without having to land them in big ships which will be getting most the heavy weapons fire from our armies.

Anyways... I wouldn't mind so much if some of these starting out future tech nation relised they can't out produce people just because of their wanky technology.

YES!

Lets give up on futuretech!

ALL futuretech nations are WANKERS!

Lets all bomb each other with OMG EXISTING TECH STATS AND WHY RUSSIA PWN`S AMERICA (Or the other way around)!!!1

And NOBODY who hasn´t memorised Jane`s and doesn´t know the stats for 14 assault rifles and 27 different tanks (And, perhaps, two or three OMG STEALTH bombers) is a GODMODDER because he cannot STATWANK!!!1

And modern tech RPers CANNOT do anything because all the FUTURE WANKERS are, in fact, ruining the forums, so that BRILLIANT modern Tech RPers like Russian Forces or Dark Terror have NO CHANCE of establishing themselves.

The future IS EVIL.

~ Happy physics raping player o`D00MZ, slightly wondering why SO MANY modern tech RPers complain that they find NO OTHER modern tech RPers...

Anyone found the contradiction?

Aim away from face and pull the trigger.

I say no more.

Happy physics raping player o`D00MZ, slightly wondering why SO MANY modern tech RPers complain that they find NO OTHER modern tech RPers...

I know loads of people who have the same around about technology as me...

I ignore Dark Terror in a IC way (my nation tries to have nothing to do with him) and the less said about Russian Forces the better.

However, just to make clear... I have no problem with future tech with exception to the most abused technologies, usually from games like Alpha Centuri. These are the technologies that claim they can turn a field of corpses into a pile of guns, things like nano-tech. I don't mind if your nano-tech is explained to the point where it makes sense and doesn't allow you to do things like ignore logistical problems.

The biggest problem with some future tech nations is that they claim to ignore logistics because they have magical technology that gets around problems like feeding their army and building their fleet of 1000+ capitol ship or say... mining the entire parameter of a system with anti-matter mines.

Just so long as they don't claim power over my near future tech nation on technological superiority by saying they can destroy me with the touch of a button or something... I don't mind.

Have your future tech... just don't use it to claim power over me.

Happy physics raping player o`D00MZ, slightly wondering why SO MANY modern tech RPers complain that they find NO OTHER modern tech RPers...

I know loads of people who have the same around about technology as me...

I ignore Dark Terror in a IC way (my nation tries to have nothing to do with him) and the less said about Russian Forces the better.

However, just to make clear... I have no problem with future tech with exception to the most abused technologies, usually from games like Alpha Centuri. These are the technologies that claim they can turn a field of corpses into a pile of guns, things like nano-tech. I don't mind if your nano-tech is explained to the point where it makes sense and doesn't allow you to do things like ignore logistical problems.

The biggest problem with some future tech nations is that they claim to ignore logistics because they have magical technology that gets around problems like feeding their army and building their fleet of 1000+ capitol ship or say... mining the entire parameter of a system with anti-matter mines.

Just so long as they don't claim power over my near future tech nation on technological superiority by saying they can destroy me with the touch of a button or something... I don't mind.

Have your future tech... just don't use it to claim power over me.

Yeah.

I was gonna rant here, but I'm not. I'm just gonna say that I put loads of effort into my spaceships to make them as realistic as I can while still being competitive. They're not going to be shot down with some shoddy RP.

I'm attempting to slowly and realistically make the transition to future tech. I have developed gravitic aircraft, and gravships are in the process of being created. Space fleets will come shortly after, I'm sure.

I would probably have liked to stay modern (or slightly post-modern) tech, as there is at least the US standard to compare military units with so that they don't get too out of control. However, most of the people I RP with are future tech, and it's frustrating not being able to enter space engagements and such. I guess I shouldn't rag on future tech too much though, at least not until I have the oppurtunity to really play with it.

If the muzzle velocity on your rifles is too high, he'll call you on it.So he tells you if you're godmoding so you can fix it?
Pisses me off when someone comes into a modern war throwing around lasers and ortillery. I just hate ortillery plain and simple.Lasers are real-tech and ortillery is near-future tech.

Personally, I'm willing to play anything from ancient to a few decades into the future, but most of the stuff I've made up has at least one futuristic feature (but I could either say it's an upgrade that comes later, or quickly make up a new, somewhat older thing for the RP, which I would revise when I had more time).

I was gonna rant here, but I'm not. I'm just gonna say that I put loads of effort into my spaceships to make them as realistic as I can while still being competitive. They're not going to be shot down with some shoddy RP.

The simple way to not get shot down with shoddy RP is to not be involved with in a shoddy RP.

I respect that you guys can spend ages designing and researching these ships, but if you spend ages designing a invincable, invisible phase ship then you can expect trouble.

If you have actually done things reasonably then I will treat it with respect, I will not shoot it down with "ma EMP bomz destroyz yr l33t ship" but I'll think of a reasonable way of shooting it down.

In another scenario, if I but effort into destroying someones ship I would like more recognition then "my shields save me!!!11!" if your ship can stop my plan (like Whispering Voices stopped all my Gauss Weapons against his Wisp) then I will respect that, so long as it's not completely invincable.

Anyways, not like it matter... my ranting isn't aimed at you, I read most of the things you write about when talking about logistics and so on... so I know you won't abuse tech like some of the newer nations.

The problem with future-tech (and yes, I do have a puppet that uses it) is that it has no standard. In modern and MOST postmodern RPs, guns are guns and bombs are bombs. They have different attributes and uses, but in the end, everyone (who matters) knows what a gun does. In future-tech, you have all sorts of arbitrary, exotic weaponry. No one has any comparison, as one "laser" is not another "laser", and God save us from High Energy weapons, cloaks, and FTL weapons. Let's say one nation has the unstoppable beam weapon while the other has the unbreachable beam shield... instant impasse. Godmod is declared by one, the other says "sore loser". What might need to be done is for a Future tech RP, the creator would take a list of the usable weapons from each side and declare arbitrary damage values. But that's a lot of work, and I'm not sure who would all do that. (I'm going to.)

Oh, I don't design invincible or invisible ships. I do my ships with as much realism as I can. But, I do design them to come out victorious in battle, what can I say. (It helps that I can afford to make them in quantity though.)

A big problem is what Kaukolastan has said, there's really no standard. The one I adhere to is, basically, physics. I figure it takes a certain amount of energy to do various amounts of things, like punch through armor. And I figure everything needs space, and has mass. But not everyone wants to bother with physics (and it's pretty slow-going, true) just for this game. But then you have to rely on either another game system that you both share. Or, the good graces of your fellow RPers. And the latter only works if you RP with a select group, and I'm trying not to be elitist, I wanna be able to RP with anybody.

I use future tech only because if I use modern tech, I'll turn into what you all call a 'stat whore'. And I really wouldn't care, because I think if your gonna use modern existing tech, then you should now how the f*ck to use it. I'm not saying that you should spend a few hours a day researching military equipment, but if your gonna use modern tech, at least know what teh hell its capable and not capable of.

A big problem is what Kaukolastan has said, there's really no standard. The one I adhere to is, basically, physics. I figure it takes a certain amount of energy to do various amounts of things, like punch through armor. And I figure everything needs space, and has mass. But not everyone wants to bother with physics (and it's pretty slow-going, true) just for this game.

Agreed. Since there could be a huge varity of "stuff" one could have with modern tech (from hypersonic spacecraft to some kind of "space rover", etc. etc.), IMHO there wouldn't really be a lot of "non-godmoding standards" for those far-future tech especially.

About the physics however, I would say it is sometimes ignored. But when you get very specific about physics & future tech (or, modern tech equipment for that matter if you get specific) some will call you a "stats whore", and that of course also be a "bait" into an ignorefest. In future tech however, as same as the "physics statement", few people are really going to argue if you are really using some kind of optical cloak that can block radar/electromagnetic/IR/etc. waves on your mechs or "supersoldiers" (at least, from what I see). Oh well.

I personally perfer modern tech. I hate how a nation will send like 12 million troops total. Even if this was .45 percent of your population, you stil wouldnt send THAT many fighting troops over.

I still think RPing in the present is the best, and most fun.

I love my future-tech, and I'm currently in the process of putting the finishing touches on a Hypergate and a Universal Constructor... Not to mention the electromagnetic field distortions, gravimetric singularity generators, phase-aligned particle beam weapons, linear acceleration ladder kinetic energy weapons... :mrgreen:
Is it balanced? Probably not, but I also don't overstep my boundaries and will not use any technology that I can't fully explain the properties and abilities of. In other words, if the laws of physics deny something, I'll figure out how to violate them, and if I'm still unable to describe how the technology works without resorting to "because I said so" (a very rare instance, just to warn you ahead of time), I drop the idea completely and try to incorporate the elements that DO work into something else.

Modern-tech is not dead, and with the proper tactics, you could fight a fair fight against a military like mine. It just won't be as easy as "I throw ten million tanks at you and you die miserably as my tanks roll over your defenses". It's not the technology that wins the battle, it's the tactics. ;)

Communism
I've seen modern tech Rpers throw around that many troops all the time. In fact, a future tech nation would be more likely to have less ground troops due to more effective equipment.

Communism
I've seen modern tech Rpers throw around that many troops all the time. In fact, a future tech nation would be more likely to have less ground troops due to more effective equipment.
Very true, New Empire... However, for some future-tech nations, they don't necessarily have to worry about sending live bodies into the battlefield, because their militaries don't actually have any living beings (ie, androids, cyborgs, etc.). For those nations, dropping twenty million robots on the enemy isn't a big deal, since it's easy to mass-produce reinforcements in a matter of days... :)

Talking about modern tech, I may I ask that someone nuke the next person who launches a non-nuclear ICBM? It's getting on my nerves to watch people fire these things without realising that there is no way for me to tell the difference between one that will destory a bad and one that will destroy a city with a nuclear warhead...

The idea of mutually assured destruction still exists when you fire a non-nuclear ICMB because they won't beleive you when you tell them "It's not nuclear... honest" and they will assume the worst. Then they will attempt to fire most their missiles (nuclear) at suspected launch sites in a attempt to disable your nuclear cabability so they won't take as many casualities.

After that they may deside that they won't be able to stop all your launching cabability and they know the ones they can't find will be aimed at population centres to cause the most damage, so they will want to hit back at your population centres with some of their arsenal.

The point is, before that missile which isn't nuclear lands, they will have set off to destroy what they can before you launch any more.


Eitherway your nice environmental non-nuclear attack will cause your nation to be turned into a crator by the other side who doesn't like the idea that you are trying to turn him into a crator.

If that wasn't enough, alliances may get invovled and so may nations living next to them who don't know if your ICBM will contaminate their land due to the winds and currents.


So please... next time someone launches one of these "Non-Nuclear" ICBM's, can we make an example of them that in the real world you don't use conventional ICBM's unless you really mean to nuke a nation and are prepared for the consquences.

Well, last nation I know of that fired a non-nuclear ICBM learned the lesson with a nuclear retaliation.

You know, it's kind of like the kids with realistic-looking-squirtguns and cops shooting at them situation.

Im modern tech.

And the future modern tech ratio is getting out of hand and with insane technologies to the point where people think power armor makes your soldiers as strong as tanks.
I pretty much exscusively ignore most future tech except for 10-15 years in the future.

Belem, it depends on the design of the powered armor; the HS3602s (manufactured in 2036 for general use in infantry settings) I use are designed around a 1.5mm carbon nanotube woven layer over a second woven steel substrate that measures around half a millimeter deep. Considering carbon nanotubes have a tensile strength of 200 gigaPascals, while steel only has 20 GPa, it does, in effect, make the armor as tough as a tank, if not tougher. Strength gets enhanced using electroactive polymers combined with ionic polymer gels as artificial musculature, consequently enhancing speed and user reflexes.
Of course, this triumph of combat technology also has a weakness to explosives; overpressure attacks like rocket impacts will literally liquefy the guy inside the suit, while the armor is barely dented from the impact. Kinetic transfer is not your friend.

Incidentally, Vrak, you better not ignore future tech in a UE vs FKC throw down, it'd be an awful shame to waste the hours I've spent plotting your walrussy destruction old son :P

OOC: Actually, I have every right to ignore future tech - especially if it's agreed to be a modern tech war. And you will find my destruction far harder than you may realize. 8)

May I ask... WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU FIRE A NON-NUCLEAR ICBM?

That is an immensely costly delivery system, and the payload is not that great. Not only is is suicidal, it's inneficient!

May I ask... WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU FIRE A NON-NUCLEAR ICBM?

That is an immensely costly delivery system, and the payload is not that great. Not only is is suicidal, it's inneficient!

technically you could deploy 20 tons of TnT with an ICBM but still its not worth it considering youll get nuked back into the stone age.

And thats the cause of 3 of my wars that became ignored actually. Someone goes "<insert countrys name here> doesnt have nukes but we have ICBMs so dont launch nukes as retailation" they launch ICBMs I go "you cant tell when they are flying" I nuke back they say its not fair and ignore.
One person actually thought ICBMs are always conventional unless stated otherwise

Just a question, since you're on the subject of nukes and retaliation...

I've got a Orion-type heavy-lift vehicle (may it never be used).
Now, for those who don't know, Project Orion* was a US research project, based on this simple concept:

Take one big steel plate.
Put nuke under plate.
Fire nuke.
Plate goes up damn fast.
Repeat.

Technically, this counts as multiple atmospheric nuclear detonations.

Now, since this method will spew fallout all over the place, what can I expect if I'm ever forced to use this thing?

And for those of you who'll scream "You can't fire nukes over your own nation!", I'll explain:

First, my population is used to living underground, and my nation is pretty much barren anyway.
Second, architecture in Khrrck tends towards "reinforced concrete bunker" (We don't believe in weak construction)
Finally, we're not too attached to this place. We've only been here for a short time. (I'm not going to even attempt to explain my nation's history right now.)


*Now defunct, due to the ban on atmospheric nuclear tests.

Other nations probably will go postal on you.

I coped one problem once. Some Space nations claimed he was orbital bombarding the crap out of my nation with space ships. Obviously i had no other way to retaliate but fire ICBM's at his fleets. He claimed i was a god modder. Well excuse me but im a modern tech nation and im never going to play against high tech again.

My policy is that if I ever play with Space Nations is that ortillery will be out of the equation. I consider it WMD, and if used, will result in me "Cleansing the Skies with Fire".

Could you elaborate? I think I know what you mean by "go postal"*, but I want to be sure, in case it's some kind of obscure slang...


*Be very, very, very, angry. Which is what I should expect, I guess...
I'm just glad that I should never have to use the thing.

If someone fired off an Orion craft in my region, and it affected me (duh, it's a nuke!), I' probably retaliate in kind. Night night, boost vehicle. You could expect this from any nation. If you did it in the middle of nowhere, probably not, but be ready for a retaliatory action.

I see. You'd have to do some pretty quick reprogramming.
Most nuclear missiles aren't designed to hit moving targets, right?

I coped one problem once. Some Space nations claimed he was orbital bombarding the crap out of my nation with space ships. Obviously i had no other way to retaliate but fire ICBM's at his fleets. He claimed i was a god modder. Well excuse me but im a modern tech nation and im never going to play against high tech again.

OOC: I consider ortillery a form of WMD. The definition of a WMD should not be restricted to what we normally think it is. The Death Star's superlaser is the ultimate WMD and it's not a nuke.

Moving upwards predictable pattern, and "hitting" with a nuke is relative, to say the least. I'm not trying to threaten, I'm just saying what would happen.

I see. Thanks for the information.

I think of the Orion vehicle as something like the Archangel from Larry Niven's novel Footfall.

It's a absolute last-ditch option for when you need to get a big load (of weaponry, refugees, whatever) into space right now.

Could someone define "ortillery" for me?
Is ortillery space-based kinetic energy weapons? (asteroid impacts, etc.)

I see. Thanks for the information.

I think of the Orion vehicle as something like the Archangel from Larry Niven's novel Footfall.

It's a absolute last-ditch option for when you need to get a big load (of weaponry, refugees, whatever) into space right now.

Could someone define "ortillery" for me?
Is ortillery space-based kinetic energy weapons? (asteroid impacts, etc.)
Ortillery is Orbital Artillery. Big guns, rocks, lasers, whatever... It's a tactic employed by lazy/jackass Future Tech players to just say, "Hah! I Win! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!"

I don't know why you feel that you need to be "strictly" modern tech. A lot of the future and fantasy stuff is compatable with modern tech, so long as both players are being reasonable. "Oh, you have grav tanks with plasma cannons? Well, hey! If i shoott hem with this here much cheaper tank, it'll die. Oh, you've got a Dragon? Hey, missiles still work, eh?" Course, things like space ships, uber magic, and ortillery can't be countered by modern tech, but that's about it. Learn to be flexable. If I want to be able to have orcs with rail rifles, whats wrong with that? If you shoot them, they're still dead. Of course, not having a wanky opponent makes things much more... tolerable. ;) Cheers.

I don't know why you feel that you need to be "strictly" modern tech. A lot of the future and fantasy stuff is compatable with modern tech, so long as both players are being reasonable. "Oh, you have grav tanks with plasma cannons? Well, hey! If i shoott hem with this here much cheaper tank, it'll die. Oh, you've got a Dragon? Hey, missiles still work, eh?" Course, things like space ships, uber magic, and ortillery can't be countered by modern tech, but that's about it. Learn to be flexable. If I want to be able to have orcs with rail rifles, whats wrong with that? If you shoot them, they're still dead. Of course, not having a wanky opponent makes things much more... tolerable. ;) Cheers.

OOC: I think you cut to the chase when you said "so long as both players are being reasonable".

Certainly, strictly two modern tech nations can be unreasonable while a modern tech vs a non-modern tech can work things out. I can see where some people might feel mildly insulted by the tone of this thread and I don't think that it was the intention of the original thread starter, although some comments could be perceived that way.

I also think you hit upon another important point. The degree as to how far "future tech" is from "modern tech" certainly counts a lot. My nation would be utterly helpless against nations such as Angelus, Scolopendra, or Sketch due to their overwhelming technological superiority. Against someone like Santa Barbara, Whispering Voices, or Der Angst I might have a fighting chance. Nations that are very much the same fuzzy gray tech level I can see it being more "even" (such as Omz222, Drakonia, etc...).

I think that the perhaps two nations of the same tech level gives the impression of cutting down the wankery. However, the wank beast has many heads and forms and can make itself appear despite the agreed upon tech level.

And Britmattia, I owe you an apology. You'll find that I'm quite open to all tech levels, but if an impending conflict has a fairly agreed upon level - well, I don't think it would be too unreasonable for a far future dude like yourself to "tone it down". That's what I was trying to say earlier. Really, no one wants to see their own nation wiped off the face of the earth from an overwhelmingly superior tech foe. And I don't have Jeff Goldblum available with his notebook computer handy ready to upload a virus that can miraculously destroy all your ships! LOLOLOLOLOL!

But I'm still tough to kill! 8)

Against someone like Santa Barbara, Whispering Voices, or Der Angst I might have a fighting chance.

Lets just say that i wouldn´t be able to successfully invade you without allied support to achive, say, a 5 : 1 numerical superiority... and thats not counting the Klatchian support for you ;)

I don't like futuretech! Rather than, say, tagging posts with 'modern-tech only RP' or perhaps even STARTING a good modern-tech RP, I'm just going to winge about it, because that's bound to achieve something. Oh, wait...

I've largely ignored this thread due to it's sheer amounts of whining. But here goes. The most amusing part of this thread so far is that one in every four posts is a future tech the rest are all OMG LOL TEH MODERN ROOLZ posts. then there are the delightfully mature posts that give both argumentive and decent evidence for their claims.

I am not saying where I RP in the terms of technology but then I'm also someone that doesnt believe we should be grounded by reality. If I wanted realism I'd go join the military or something. This is a game physics is not essential.

Now it's amusing how people complain about the lack of modern technology in nationstates RPs, yet people also forget that not everyone deliberately pauses their technological advancements just because they think they should. As a nation ages it's technology gets better. If that wasnt the case we'd still be using swords. Some (note I said some) 'modern' tech nations are not even modern tech. They fly about in their omg l337 JSF fighters which as far as I know are still being designed (havent checked that fact for a while so I might be wrong.) Or using the OCIW or what ever it is. The hypersoar project bomber and what not MTHEL systems Sattelite based lasers and what not. All theoretical and not in actualy use tech.

Yes it's modern technology making FUTURISTIC weapons. You can sit ther and lie to yourself but it makes you look silly. Rail guns are not futuristic. Hand held ones are most likely just around the corner with the break through in fusion power and micro fusion generators. nothing is overly 'modern' in the modern world.

The fact is sure, people might have space fleets, stations, multi universe empires but is that giving you the right to bitch and moan? No. Dont like it? Too bad this thread has shown there are plenty of nations you can RP with. Personaly I think it extreamly arrogent and pathetic that you abuse people's choice to advance their nation with age rather than limit their imaginations by what goes on in the real world.

IF you want to do that fine by me, but dont think I'm going to collapse and change how I RP just so I can please the whingy masses that are too wrapt up in the love of reality to let their imagination run wild. Threads like this are the bane of NS since it brings out the worst in previously thought good people. Advice? Sure shut up and deal with it. If you state it's a modern tech RP you'll get modern tech RPers there's no point to bitch moan and piss about with threads like this. Get over yourselves and move on.

The Ministry for omg lolz futuristic ooc comments cuz we have teh floaty space weaponz 0f t3h EVILE poor RP'd future tech! NOEZ HAHAHALOLOLOLOLOL.

I maintain that overall national power in NS should be determined by the NS stats and to at least some extent UN rankings. How that power is achieved is flavor and entirely up to the player.





We have a great free-form RP environment here, and I don't see that futuretech or magic are problems as long as players are reasonable. After all, unreasonably large forces and even worse ignoring logistic limitations will break balance just as badly.

I am 100% modern tech although a lot of the stuff I'm running around in isn't real world stuff, if you get my drift. When it comes to military vehicles some of mine are carrying larger cannons than any real world ones fitted to land vehicles (Rather than ships). IF you are interested I know a fair number of other real world players.

I am something of a scientist, as such I regard physics and the like as essential. When it is ignored it annoys me, luckily for me, very few people screw around with Pharmacology.

The Territory said "We have a great free-form RP environment here, and I don't see that futuretech or magic are problems as long as players are reasonable. After all, unreasonably large forces and even worse ignoring logistic limitations will break balance just as badly." ( I can't be bothered to quote) I agree with the second part, but not the first. Ubertech and magic people invariably are unreasonable.
I have been in RPs where a Battlemech is hit by a 300mm naval ordinance shell and loses an arm. These shells can level city blocks.
I have been in a RP where a pair of fantasy magicians have magically dodged the two machine guns that are firing at them, beated all my comany unconscious then summoned a fire elemental, which is immune to all modern weapons, to attack my airforce.
I have been in plenty of RPs where future techers have claimed to have high powered rifles that can punch through tanks while at the same time equiping their men with armour that is immune to all small arms fire (except their own).
I have been in a RP where magical dragons teleport to avoid ground fire, which they knew was coming due to the fact that they are telepathic.

Frankly I have had enough. I make a point of stressing at the start of any RP thread I am involved in that there will be no future tech or magic rubbish allowed.

'Invariably?' Why, it's a Hasty Generalisation! http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/hasty-generalization.html

DB, two points.

1) WRT invariability, thou shalt respect the implication arrow lest it turns against you.

2) You didn't seem to mind future tech among your allies in the Knoot war, did you?

Not a hasty generalisation. One built of long long long periods of sad failure to find compromise with future techers and fantasy players. You may note GMC I am not saying every future techer/fantasy player is unreasonable...I'm just yet to find one that is. Maybe if you can actually find this illusive thread where modern techers have been able to compete with future techers, then I will listen to you.
Until then I shall remain set in my views. I have seen the evidence umpteen times to support my views. I am yet to see any evidence to supprt the suposition that future techers and magic users are willing to lose units.

They all want to have an army of supermen who have become immune to kryptonite.

DB, two points.

1) WRT invariability, thou shalt respect the implication arrow lest it turns against you.

2) You didn't seem to mind future tech among your allies in the Knoot war, did you?

In yhr Knoot war you will notice I turned a blind eye on future tech amongst everyone. If you go back and read it you will notice I began by announcing I was going to join only on the proviso I was allowed to ignore all space stuff.
What is more my hard anti-future tech views have only become set since then. I was more open minded back then. I remain unrepentant. I have never commited the sin of future teching!

I am yet to see any evidence to supprt the suposition that future techers and magic users are willing to lose units.


*Points to two bioorganic telepathic battlecarrier submarines (Yes, yes, i do INDEED use such completely insane stuff) he lost to a simple, conventional torpedo attack in the combined allied attack on The Resi Corporation*

And for the record, this things are 400m long. So it`s not a 'small' loss.

You may note GMC I am not saying every future techer/fantasy player is unreasonable...

Ubertech and magic people invariably are unreasonable.

That's a pretty short memory you have...

Modern tech vs. future tech... I must say, I agree with an earlier post where the need for 'reasonable people' was mentioned. To me, it is simply a matter of understanding that, no matter what technology you have, you are limited by certain rules. The first is that future tech, or fantasy, cannot produce invincible units. Perhaps it is technically possible to develop armour immune to small arms fire, perhaps not... but this is NS. Wether usng RL physics or sci-fi fiction, when you engage in a battle, you are joining with another person to create an imagined conflict, and thus you cannot claim immunity from their technology. To EVER make a claim of invincibility invalidates your whole RP, regardless of how much your 'tech' might justify it, as it takes the ability to act away from the other player.
If you want that, make a puppet and attack it with your spacefleet.

Thats not to say it cant be HARD to kill something. But it should never be beyond the reach of a nation, as that would be both unreasonable and unenjoyable in a freeform RP environment.

In the case of my nation, we are modern tech for most intents and purposes... tilt-rotors are develloped beyond modern day, to fix the current problems they suffer, and civilian electronics/computer systems are several years ahead of the present, as this is my nation's primary economic focus.

However, future tech is on the way, and will be here soon... through that oft-deriled technology: gravships.

My nation has been develloping such technologies since its inception... when I joined NS, most of the 'modern tech' posts were nations claiming various parts of the real world, without war or logistics or such things... not encouraging. The most interesting RP to read then was one in which Melkorian Sky Furnaces floated over a nation and gave it a good smashing (Rukemia, I think.... though maybe not...)

Looking out over the NS world, and not IGNOREing any nations, it became obvious that many older nations, the ones which seemed to have international political influence, at least, also had this 'gravitic tech'. Thus, it made sense that my fledgling nations political leadership would set it as a goal.

That was June. This is January, and I'm just on the cusp of such technology.

Which brings me to the point that may be one of the problems here... time.

I can accept modern tech. I can accept future tech. As long as both are reasonable. However, what I have trouble accepting is something which is also likely what is being addressed by this thread: beginning at future tech levels.

That is to say, a new player browses the forums, reads about a Menelmacari gravship, and claims to have the same technology. I suppose its not something I can object to in freeform RP, but it just seems... wrong. It leads to an increase in the number of space and future-tech RP threads, and may give the impression that modern tech is waning.

However, if a December '03 nation starts trying to bully me with their ortillery-gravship-stardestroyer fleet, Ill....erm.... release my consume-my-enemy-but-not-me cyborg nanovirus! Yeah, thats it....

*random and likely not-much-sense-making ramblings from Spyr's player*

Could someone define "ortillery" for me?
Is ortillery space-based kinetic energy weapons? (asteroid impacts, etc.)Realistic ortillery would be launching small slugs of tungsten at, say, the enemy's capitol building. Using ortillery as an ordinary battlefield weapon or WMD is not realistic.
And ortillery can be countered by modern-tech nations (even lagging in technology). Just launch some high-altitude interceptors with long-range missiles to take out the launching satellites.
They fly about in their omg l337 JSF fighters which as far as I know are still being designed (havent checked that fact for a while so I might be wrong.) Or using the OCIW or what ever it is. The hypersoar project bomber and what not MTHEL systems Sattelite based lasers and what not. All theoretical and not in actualy use tech.All but the Hypersoar have been tested. I think the MTHEL isn't in service, yet, because it can't fire rapidly enough, and they want it to fit on a HMMWV.
Rail guns are not futuristic. Hand held ones are most likely just around the corner with the break through in fusion power and micro fusion generators.They'd kill the user, though, so what's the point?

Realistic ortillery would be launching small slugs of tungsten at, say, the enemy's capitol building. Using ortillery as an ordinary battlefield weapon or WMD is not realistic.
I understand the part about battlefield weapons, but what's stopping someone from getting a small asteroid, bolting on some rockets, and slamming it into the enemy's city?


On the subject of fantasy/future.

I may be biased about this, as I'm a fantasy/future player myself, but I think that if you're reasonable in your claims, people won't mind you having, say, a spacefleet.

Basically, if you can explain it in a plausible way, it's OK.

For instance, earlier someone mentioned teleporting dragons dodging ground fire because they were telepathic.
Now, while teleporting and telepathy aren't too bad, it takes time to find out from someone's mind that they've fired a AA gun, figure out if it's going to hit you, and teleport out of the way. Goodbye, dragon.

As for the mech that lost an arm to a 300mm shell... You say it can take out a city block? Yes, but that's a city block of unarmored buildings.

However, he should have suffered much more damage, possibly be knocked over (bipedal machines are unstable), and the pilot would probably have been killed.
However, it's plausible for another mech to haul it back to its feet, so a temp pilot can drive it back to base (assuming the engines haven't been totally destroyed)

Now, an example of somewhat more reasonable fantasy might be my KASS rockets.

A KASS rocket is a unguided rocket with a gemstone warhead.
A spell (Kartanak's Advanced Spatial Separation) is implanted into the gemstone, and when the rocket hits, it triggers the spell.
The spell wrenches a 12' by 12' by 12' area out of sync with the rest of the universe, causing its contents to vanish.

However, the gemstone warhead is expensive, the rocket can't be guided due to the high magic levels, which disrupt the finely tuned electronics, and it's just as vulnerable to antimissile fire as anything else.

[rare rant]

Whine Whine Whine, Bitch Bitch Bitch

Frankly, I'm appalled by the stupidity and ignorance flaunted throughout this thread. Yes, as almost everyone knows, I am future tech...and what many would call far-future tech. I also dabble in fantasy, making me a modern-nation's (or most future nation's) nightmare on the battlefield. I regularly admit that I have such technology as intergalactic travel, replicators, polaron beams, genetic engineering, bio-weapons, and the like, as my Empire spans all of the Orion Sector, included eight inhabited planets.

Now what's the first thing that comes to your mind? GODMOD eh? That's bullshit! First of all, if you haven't ever come in contact with me, your judgement is bullshit from the beginning. Second, if you have, and still think I GODMOD, then you obviously can't RP.

Frankly, I have the tech, I have the "power", yet I'd like someone to find one example of how I flaunt it. No, no matter what tech level a nation is, the only thing that matters is RPing skill and ability. War isn't the only type of RP. While this should be obvious to most, it still strikes people as unorthodox. So if War isn't the only type of RP, why should tech level even matter 99% of the time? The answer: it shouldn't. Think Star Trek. What did the Federation do when they came in contact with races of lesser technology? Well lets see...they treated the situation as it should be.

I don't know what stems the future-tech hatred, but as it is your right to bitch and whine about why you hate it, basing your views off of idiots like Xanthal and the like, it is the rights of the rest of us to play this game how we see fit. I was driven away from modern-tech because of stat-wanking...yet surprisingly I don't go around making pointless threads about how I hate stat-wanking. Grow up.

[/rare rant]

I maintain that overall national power in NS should be determined by the NS stats and to at least some extent UN rankings. How that power is achieved is flavor and entirely up to the player.

We have a great free-form RP environment here, and I don't see that futuretech or magic are problems as long as players are reasonable. After all, unreasonably large forces and even worse ignoring logistic limitations will break balance just as badly.

I agree. One of the things about the game is it does have its own mechanics, and these should act as general guideposts for the RP of your nation.

Other than that I have no more to say really, and this thread seemed to become something like a modern versus future tech debate a few pages back. (Hmm, maybe from the beginning actuallly.) Plus, I wanna go get pizza. (Speaking of which, does anyone else ever use cops for pizza delivery? Just an idea. Pizza police! Or the polizza. Or something. Yeah.)

Good christ, there's still debate left in this thing? Look, my technology is clearly far-future compared to what the United States is using now; however, the technology only appears far-fetched if you've never read a technology magazine or tech site in your entire life. Aside from the plasma cannons, positron/particle beam projection rifles, and the hand-held railguns, the technology I use is all possible today, if given enough resources to mass produce it like I do.

I think the primary problem modern-tech players have is that they're just not creative enough to think up new things, so they whine when other nations think up cool things before they do. If I'm wrong, feel free to step out of the Cold War era and introduce some FEL systems on your battleships or some active camouflage on your tanks. ;)


(Side note: Hand-held railguns won't "kill the user"; you're thinking that a railgun recoils, which isn't necessarily true. The excess energy from a magnetic field overflows as heat, not kinetic energy; the energy is conserved, but it changes form because you aren't actually accelerating the projectile in a Newtonian way.)

Now it's amusing how people complain about the lack of modern technology in nationstates RPs, yet people also forget that not everyone deliberately pauses their technological advancements just because they think they should. As a nation ages it's technology gets better. If that wasnt the case we'd still be using swords. Some (note I said some) 'modern' tech nations are not even modern tech. They fly about in their omg l337 JSF fighters which as far as I know are still being designed (havent checked that fact for a while so I might be wrong.) Or using the OCIW or what ever it is. The hypersoar project bomber and what not MTHEL systems Sattelite based lasers and what not. All theoretical and not in actualy use tech.

Actually, JSF, MTHEL, OICW can all considered to be modern technology (with the exception of the satellite lasers and HyuperSoar bombers -- that's more like post-modern/"beginner" future tech). The JSF flyoff is already over, the OICW is already designed, and the MTHEL laser has been successfully tested (in 2000-2001 I believe).

But for satellite laser and HyperSoar however, I would say that they are future tech. They are still rough concepts (just like the proposed "Star Wars program). Virtually no actual "official" design work is being done, and especially the "key technology" that would be used on HyperSoar (engine, etc.) is still being tested.

About this "modern tech-future tech" comparison that has been going in this thread however, both tech have their advantages and disadvantages. It is your choice to RP with a future tech nation. Besides, if you know some tactics and if your brain works, you could defeat future tech. If you don't like future tech -- stay modern with others, and join only modern tech RPs.

It seems like most people don't want to put any brain work into their RPs, they just want to stat-wank and number-dork until they win; when faced with something that can't be taken down with sheer numbers or with anything in the modern-day arsenal, they start complaining about how cheap and cheesy it is. The thing is, whatever the given thing isn't strong at, is a weakness that can be exploited; a suit of armor protects against heat and some UV radiation, but it won't protect against ultra high frequency waves with high amplitudes. Flak jackets ignore shotgun blasts, but they can't ignore grenade detonations. Tanks are heavily armored, but there are parts that aren't armored at all.
Instead of just pissing and moaning about how cheap something is, take the time to do some research on your enemy, or invent some brilliant tactics instead of just blanket-ignoring because you can't just stat-wank your way out of the fight.

I understand the part about battlefield weapons, but what's stopping someone from getting a small asteroid, bolting on some rockets, and slamming it into the enemy's city?I imagine sending a spaceship into space with extra rockets and a guidance system powerful enough to get an asteroid to change course and hit a specific city would be quite difficult.
(Side note: Hand-held railguns won't "kill the user"; you're thinking that a railgun recoils, which isn't necessarily true. The excess energy from a magnetic field overflows as heat, not kinetic energy; the energy is conserved, but it changes form because you aren't actually accelerating the projectile in a Newtonian way.)
But recoil forces were also observed in the rails, the arrows in Figure 2.7A, pushing the rails back and thus deforming them.

Aye, I stand corrected then. Thanks for the information, Nianacio.
Good thing I don't use hand-held units, the smallest railgun I use is mounted on a battlesuit that weighs over 300 kilograms of pure mass... :)

Urgh. I guess the point I was trying to make earlier is that the further one departs from "modern tech" (since that is the present age we are all living in now and most familiar with) and move into different tech levels in either direction (by this I mean back into the stone age or far into the future) things get a little tough. Arguably, it might be easier to go into the past since that's where we came from, but harder yet to get a "feel" for future tech stuff. Or "magic tech" or "psionic tech" since we don't have any kind of model for that. And perhaps were more misunderstanding could result? After all, if a wizard casts a fireball at a T-90 tank what are the effects? What about a red dragon breathing flame on some infantry? Is it about the same as Melkor's sky furnace? We seem to naturally default for a "modern" equivalent and some like to crunch numbers in order to try and be fair. That is, we can all understand math - even if some of us strong at it and some aren't (like me).

I feel bad about this thread kind of degenerating into X-tech vs Y-tech.

The Territory: I agree that the NS stats (economy, pop size, etc...) and UN rankings can be used as a basis for establishing a "power" ranking, as it were. But some players don't even care about that - which is kind of frustrating.

I think the idea of some kind of "standardization" shouldn't be viewed as taking anything away from the game since it allows for a level playing field. Some feel that this detracts from their creative efforts however. I suppose the best solution so far seems to be what people are already doing now - playing with those that are of a similar mindset.

MegaTolyo3: Well, tactics certainly can overcome some deficiencies, but if placed against a incredibly superior technological foe, they won't help much - especially if both are half decent tacticians. I mean, if I could control a single Imperial Star Destroyer I'm quite sure that I could make all the countries of the world submit - and I'm no Hannibal. Or even as smart as some the greatest military minds living today.

MegaTolyo3: Well, tactics certainly can overcome some deficiencies, but if placed against a incredibly superior technological foe, they won't help much - especially if both are half decent tacticians. I mean, if I could control a single Imperial Star Destroyer I'm quite sure that I could make all the countries of the world submit - and I'm no Hannibal. Or even as smart as some the greatest military minds living today.

This quote reminds me of something I saw on Stardestroyer.net about tech levels in a comparision between star wars tech and star trek tech in a war.

Basically the argument goes: get 2 chess players not professionals but 2 people who are generally good at the game about the same skill. Now watch the game each player will be equally challeneged and this will produce an entertaining game.
Now replace one of the white players pawns with an extra queen. This makes it harder for the other player to win, he has to either play better or hope the white player makes a bad move and losses one of his queens. Its still possible for the black player to win but the odds are in favor the white player.
Now replace 2 of whites pawns with Queens. The White player is an almost certain position to win unless he makes a few critical mistakes or the black player comes up with some brilliant strategy to remove the whites advantage and win the game.
Now as the white player gets more queens it makes the gamer more difficult and less fun for the black player. Until you get to the point where all of the white players pawns are now queens. At this point(and probably right after 2 queens) it is impossible for the black player to win at all probably much less remove a piece from the board. The game has ceased to be fun and has become a onesided action.

So even as all these futuretech players are saying its whining and there stuff has weaknesses the battle is so lopsided in there favor anything short of just launching 5 thousand nukes into space to destroy your fleet wont put a dent in the overall scheme of things.

I dont think modern-tech is impossible to play. I play modern-tech, and all nations I have relations with seem to be modern-tech...

I dont think modern-tech is impossible to play. I play modern-tech, and all nations I have relations with seem to be modern-tech...

I am starting to wonder if moderen tech play is becoming impoossible. I see way too much space/fantasy stuff that I do not want to play with. I have had trouble starting modern tech RPs recently. And someone commented on a recent AMF thread that he was haveing trouble in hes RPs due to ignoring future tech. So does anyone play realistic modern anymore, or am I just wasting my time?

Well, as fun as "Modern" Rp is, its really limited. I mean, how many times can you fight a war on terror? Human opponents get tiring after awhile and god damn it...I like using my imagination.

Though my technology level is more Post-Post Modern, I still use machine guns and all that but I have a space fleet...point is of forum role playing is to use your imagination and the adventures of Mack Bolan get tiring after awhile.

MegaTolyo3: Well, tactics certainly can overcome some deficiencies, but if placed against a incredibly superior technological foe, they won't help much - especially if both are half decent tacticians. I mean, if I could control a single Imperial Star Destroyer I'm quite sure that I could make all the countries of the world submit - and I'm no Hannibal. Or even as smart as some the greatest military minds living today.

This quote reminds me of something I saw on Stardestroyer.net about tech levels in a comparision between star wars tech and star trek tech in a war.

Basically the argument goes: get 2 chess players not professionals but 2 people who are generally good at the game about the same skill. Now watch the game each player will be equally challeneged and this will produce an entertaining game.
Now replace one of the white players pawns with an extra queen. This makes it harder for the other player to win, he has to either play better or hope the white player makes a bad move and losses one of his queens. Its still possible for the black player to win but the odds are in favor the white player.
Now replace 2 of whites pawns with Queens. The White player is an almost certain position to win unless he makes a few critical mistakes or the black player comes up with some brilliant strategy to remove the whites advantage and win the game.
Now as the white player gets more queens it makes the gamer more difficult and less fun for the black player. Until you get to the point where all of the white players pawns are now queens. At this point(and probably right after 2 queens) it is impossible for the black player to win at all probably much less remove a piece from the board. The game has ceased to be fun and has become a onesided action.

So even as all these futuretech players are saying its whining and there stuff has weaknesses the battle is so lopsided in there favor anything short of just launching 5 thousand nukes into space to destroy your fleet wont put a dent in the overall scheme of things.

Now Belem, you dont have to worry about Tech wanking. Now in the "New to nationstates?" thread it says that if one nations military is armed with sticks and stones and the others is armed with plasma guns. The side with the sticks can still win. Its not technology that wins wars in nationstates...its a magic little thing called "Role Playing"

It seems like most people don't want to put any brain work into their RPs, they just want to stat-wank and number-dork until they win; when faced with something that can't be taken down with sheer numbers or with anything in the modern-day arsenal, they start complaining about how cheap and cheesy it is. The thing is, whatever the given thing isn't strong at, is a weakness that can be exploited; a suit of armor protects against heat and some UV radiation, but it won't protect against ultra high frequency waves with high amplitudes. Flak jackets ignore shotgun blasts, but they can't ignore grenade detonations. Tanks are heavily armored, but there are parts that aren't armored at all.
Instead of just pissing and moaning about how cheap something is, take the time to do some research on your enemy, or invent some brilliant tactics instead of just blanket-ignoring because you can't just stat-wank your way out of the fight.

You're right. Imagination is a large part of the game. Don't have to be dead accurate, just reasonable. I recently argued advancements for modern warfare, and try to keep my RP inside the current decade for advancements. Just because I come up with something different that is functional doesn't make it wrong.

You may note GMC I am not saying every future techer/fantasy player is unreasonable...

Ubertech and magic people invariably are unreasonable.

That's a pretty short memory you have...

Yep. And I pride myself on it.

I don't care what anyone says in these respects I will remain unrepentently anti-future tech. People can go on about blah blah blah their armour is vulnerable to ultra high frequency radio waves blah blah blah, but the odds of any modern tech nation being able to mass produce stuff to produce killer ultra high frequency radio waves is aprox a figure close to 0.
IMHO future tech is what people do when they don't understand real world tech, want to OWNZ j00 4LL!!!!1111 or are reall REALLY into sci-fi. It is my choice and I chose to have nothing to do with future tech. I have been involved with plenty of it and it has always turned out to be outrageously godmody and perpetrated by someone with all the scientific knowledge of a can of baked beans.

That's fine, if you want to limit your RP opportunities, good for you.

You want to pretend that somehow makes you a better roleplayer, though? Big hell no for you, son.

I understand the part about battlefield weapons, but what's stopping someone from getting a small asteroid, bolting on some rockets, and slamming it into the enemy's city?

Apart from the difficulty of moving it?
Tungsten rod == city-wide destruction.
Small asteroid == global destruction.

Footfalls are rather overboard unless your goal is to conquer dang near the entire planet, and you're patient enough to wait for the weather to get back to normal.

My problem with future tech likely isnt with any future-tech nations that post here... in fact, its not really with future tech at all. Rather, its just that futuretech is the solution for those bad RPers who dont have the math skills for stat-wanking. Which, in the end, has nothing to do with the good futuretech RPers.

However, one of the futuretech issues ive noticed is that, unlike in 'sticks&stones vs. machineguns', technologies seem to pop up that destabilize the balance of equal opportunity which is vital in freeform RP between more than a single person. Really, it boils down to this: You can claim any tech you want. But, that tech cannot inherently grant you an advantage over other players... thy must first consent to it. Which is why some people choose to ignore future-tech, as they simply will not consent to your claims about your nation.

Remember, your tech level is ARBITRARY. You choose it, there are no objective outside criteria which justify or explain it. Your nation's description and UN rankings give some general guidelines for resources and strengths of a nation, but the player can choose any tech level they want in RP. So, your tech cant, in of itself, confer an advantage to you... whatever it does has to be the result of agreement amongst all parties in an RP.

Its all about cooperation!

(And good RP skills, though without those, I doubt thered e much inter-player cooperation...)

So even as all these futuretech players are saying its whining and there stuff has weaknesses the battle is so lopsided in there favor anything short of just launching 5 thousand nukes into space to destroy your fleet wont put a dent in the overall scheme of things.

Once more, when has NS been solely about war? If you pick a fight with a future tech nation, or allow a future tech nation to even think about attacking you, (you should tell them before hand that you are present or whatever, not after the attack has gone on for a while and you've fought back) then you are at fault for "ruining the fun". Personally, other than just for bragging rights, I see no fun in a potential RP where my Uber-space fleet completely destroys an earth country while their leaders both ICly and OOCly complain.

And Spyr, you're generalizing again. Future tech was not a solution for bad RPers when I became future tech, and Stat-wanking is not something to be proud of.

When I was modern-tech, (for about a month, so from march to april 15th), I put together good stats for my military, but I was criticized for not going into every anal retentive detail. Therefore, I made an elaborate RP about how my earth "nation" was really just a colony, and the RP was about the colony being destroyed. From then on, I was a "space nation", and I've been happy about it ever since.

Spyr, I am considered by many, both here in NS and elsewhere, as an excellent RPer. So was my flight to space tech an excuse for me, a "bad RPer"? Hell no.

As GMC said, modern-tech limits your RP opportunities. I love making crazy, out of this world, RPs with great storylines. I don't like damn modern-tech restrictions. You think putting restrictions on your creativity makes you a better roleplayer? Of course not.

I started this to see if my perception was right. I will now be asking for a lock. My OP has been answered to my staisfaction and this is starting to turn into nastiness.

A few notes for those who have posted:

The OP question was asked because I was having trouble finding mod-tech players. My last few attempts at RPs died specifically due to disinterest. The most promising died because no one seemed willing to even try mod-tech. There seems to be enough response to say that mod is not dead, but it almost is. I am looking for a better game because of this, but I have yet to find one. ;)

Future tech promoters should be happy to hear that I will be experementing with a post-modern puppet nation soon to see how I like future tech - look for Daistallia 2104....

To all those who claim that trying to play one tech level is restricting, I can only say any role is limiting. You limit yourself to the future. Mod tech is only as limiting as you let it be.....

Anyway, thank you for all the respones.

Locked on the request of the author.

*Does the lockomotion*