NationStates Jolt Archive

I get the impression that many players on NS are more interested in a well RPed game than the n00b-ish "I n00k U, Ur dead, I pwn U" style experience.

Given that, I would expect spying, double-dealing, treachery, misinformation, disinformation, betrayal and so forth to be rife ... in other words 'intrigue' ... at least I'd HOPE so ... we're supposed to be RPing *nations* ... They're amongst the most immersive, engaging, realistic (not realist) and interesting experiences we can have in NS.

Telegrams, puppet nations, private agreements, etc. all add to this.

But the issue of spying is difficult to RP fairly.

So, I have a suggestion ... It may sound a bit anally, tabletop-RP-ish, but please give it a chance and think about it ... I really think it could add to the whole experience.

It's based upon the honour-system ... that is, it will only work, if we are all scrupulously honest in this regard ... but I think it could work.

Here it is ...

When we want to spy on each other, we:

A) generate a random number between 1 and 100 (D100, flip of a coin, computer-generated ... it doesn't matter as long as the spread is genuinely fair)

B) The nation doing the spying contacts the target nation, by private telegram, declaring the intention to spy and the number they have generated.

C) The nation being spied upon generates a number between 1 and 100.

D) the outcome depends upon the difference between the numbers:

THE NATION BEING SPIED UPON DETERMINES WHO HAS THE HIGHER SCORE ... Yeah, well, espionage is a dodgy business


IF THE DIFFERENCE IS IN THE FAVOUR OF THE NATION DOING THE SPYING:

1a) Difference is 76%+ ... They get to ask three questions. The nation being spied upon must answer all three questions truthfully.

1b) Difference is 51% - 75% ... They get to ask three questions. The nation being spied upon must answer two questions truthfully and may lie terribly about the third.

1c) Difference is 26% - 50% ... They get to ask three questions. The nation being spied upon must answer one question truthfully and may lie terribly about the other two.

1d) Difference is 1% to 25% ... They get to ask three questions. The nation being spied upon may choose how it answers the questions, including lying about all three. Alternatively, they may capture the spy and return no information.

IF THE DIFFERENCE IS IN THE FAVOUR OF THE BEING SPIED UPON:

2a) Difference is 76%+ ... The nation doing the spying gets to ask three questions. The nation being spied upon may choose how it answers the questions, including lying about all three. Alternatively, they may capture the spy and return no information.

2b) Difference is 26% - 50% ... The nation doing the spying gets to ask three questions. The nation being spied upon must answer one question truthfully and may lie terribly about the other two.

2c) The nation doing the spying gets to ask three questions. The nation being spied upon must answer one question truthfully and may lie terribly about the other two.

2d) Difference is 76%+ ... The nation doing the spying gets to ask three questions. The nation being spied upon must answer all three questions truthfully.


Yes, I am aware that there is a discrepancy between the number of questions asked (3) vs the number of outcomes (4), so the spread is 25%:33% in favour of the nation being spied upon ... but you'll have heard of double-agents, right?



As I said, it may sound terribly anally retentive, but it is not difficult to implement and could add to the whole RP experience ... I'm not asking people to spend their *entire* time spying on each other ... I don't want NS to degenerate into internecine warfare ... but it *is* in keeping with the international politics and diplomacy that is *supposed* to be a part of NS, and I believe that it could make the whole experience more immersive and, hence, more fun.

It would also be fairer ... any one of us can look at the latest info for government type, tax rate, etc. and calculate each other's GDP/budget ... but how much more fun would it be it have (potentially eronious) inside info on each other's plans and intrigues?


Please think about it.

This belongs in NationStates.

You would have to set a dynamic limit on how many times you can choose to spy in a given amount of time. Like, for larger, more intense nations, give them more chances than a small, 1 month old nation.

You would have to set a dynamic limit on how many times you can choose to spy in a given amount of time. Like, for larger, more intense nations, give them more chances than a small, 1 month old nation.

God idea ...I guess it would be a factor of their military budget as to hoe many spies they could afford

This belongs in NationStates.

I posted to all the forums.

I figured it was a serious enough idea to catch as many people's attention as possible.

I really think it could enhance RP-gameplay.

It's an interesting idea.

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Kûk‡xenisi n!ok‡x'osi xno-k‡xek‡emi.-The state only exists to serve itself.
"Oppose excessive military spending, yet believe in excessive spending on junk food and plastic surgery to make all your women look like LARDASSES!"-Sino, when I criticized excessive military spending.
http://www.sulucas.com/images/steatopygia.jpg
I'm male. Note the pic of attractive women.

Your idea would work better if you lined up a neutral third party to generate the numbers.

Since I don't RP much; I'd be willing to be the third party in an experimental RP if you want.

Your idea would work better if you lined up a neutral third party to generate the numbers.

Since I don't RP much; I'd be willing to be the third party in an experimental RP if you want.

I don't mind *who* does it, but I'd prefer AYAKHUSTYX ... I've already agreed to deal with him on the basis that his whole raison d'etre seems to be based around trying to set up internationally agreed standards ... and what his has to say seems to make sense ... that and the fact that I've already invested billions in him, so it's in my interest if you do.

You need to change the topic title. Right now, it looks like something posted by some 10-day-old nation about "I KAN C WHAT UR NATION IS UP TO"

Change it to something like "Spying RP: A Simple System."

You need to change the topic title. Right now, it looks like something posted by some 10-day-old nation about "I KAN C WHAT UR NATION IS UP TO"

Change it to something like "Spying RP: A Simple System."

Is there a way to do this?

CMB have acouple of topics posted where we'd like to change the title.

Try editing the first post in the topic and changing the subject. That should work. If not.. I dunno. I know it's possible somehow, because I've seen RP threads where the topic goes from "blah(open RP)" to "blah(closed RP)" or something similar.

Try editing the first post in the topic and changing the subject. That should work. If not.. I dunno. I know it's possible somehow, because I've seen RP threads where the topic goes from "blah(open RP)" to "blah(closed RP)" or something similar.

Thanks for that. Don't know how much difference it will make to _this_ thread. But CMB could make good use of that information.

If it works for entries across the board we could be laughing (Set up a generic entry and simpy edit and rename it when we need to post again -Sounds good)

This belongs in NationStates.

I posted to all the forums.

I figured it was a serious enough idea to catch as many people's attention as possible.

I really think it could enhance RP-gameplay.
A. This is entirely unrelated to Gameplay. Gameplay has its own form of spying which is real, and requires real effort.

B. I am pretty sure that the mods dislike you posting to all forums.
Last three people whom I saw do it all got warnings, one then later did something else illegal that same day, becoming an ex-nation. Since you say that you posted it in Moderation, I do wonder whether the ruling has changed, or whether an absent minded mod merely moved it into Technical, or a benevolant mod deleted it.

A. This is entirely unrelated to Gameplay. Gameplay has its own form of spying which is real, and requires real effort.

:lol: :lol: Ive about twenty people looking at me because I laughed out loud when I read that. Scathing, very scathing, Quaal!

edity = fixed quote

It sounds nice, but the "score" or whatever you call it, should be either looked from tax rate, UN ratings etc. or then you might send it via telegram to a totally neutral country outside the RP. But i usually make "cheating" in RP:s like this:

First one: <char> asked from <char2>: "So, which way leads to <city etc>?"
Second one: <char2> noticed that the questioner was <char>, so he said, knowing that the left one goes to the <enemy base etc> and the right one goes to <city etc>: "The left one."
First one acts like his/her char wouldn't know the other one wasn't cheating, and might walk directly to death.
First one: "Thanks. You have done a great favor to <something>."
Second one: "No problem..."

Use this thread, please, not the other.

--Scolo

Perhaps, but I claim inactive spying(simply having people in their nation and doing nothing more than reading the local news and checking out public archives in the Library). I really wouldn't like to contact all the nations i'm supposed to have spies in(OOC:all those with some kind of tourist industry) and do this with them. Though I suppose it would work really well if I was to actually target some kind of instillation or classified plans.....

Nice idea though I think not all players would generate their numbers honestly ALL the time :?

Good thinking though!

Interesting points.

I'm quite surprised at the number of responses this has generated, here elswhere on the forums. I was expecting people to ignore it. Now I feel all self-conscious :oops:


I wasn't trying to suggest that this system should replace RPing. It was only meant to be an idea that people might like to nake use of when RPing espionage/intelligence. I guess if two nations want to RP it out that way they could interpret the die rolls differently ... or RP it out on the forum and use the die rolls to generate behind the scenes information exchanges (so that not every one else gets let in on the secrets when they read it)

It's up to you how you play your games. I'm not trying to tell people how to go about it. It was just an idea.

And there are probably a lot of issues that I didn't consider at the time ... but maybe other people can hack it about a bit and improve it - I'll be only too happy to see a new and improved version generated by the NS community.


Another idea occurred to me in the meantime about how much value a nation might give to a particular piece of information. If a particular piece of information were of pressing importance, the nation doing the spying could declare this in advance and say that they wanted to spend two (or even all) of their questions on obtaining it. Of course the danger then is that the nation being spied upon might equally put two of it's rolls behind that and get to supply disinformation rather than simply misinformation

I guess it needs some work done on it before it'll be a truly robust approach, but, as I said, it was only really a simple idea to add a bit of spice to things.


I don't really understand why this isn't considered a Gameplay issue, though. I was talking OOC, not IC, about a game mechanic.

I guess, being new to NS, it'll take me a while to work out which are the best forums for different kinds of posts. I apologise for any mistakes I might make in the meantime.

Scathing, very scathing, Quaal!
Yeah, I guess I kinda lost my temper there. :oops: