NationStates Jolt Archive

You might want to brush up on Sub-Space before you read further. Go here to learn more http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=96083

Okay, my nation has two types of FTL. One, Sub-Space (detailed in the above thread), accelerates ships to 1 ly per minute. My backup FTL, used where Sub-Space travel is unavailable, accelerates ships to 1 ly per hour.

Now, if a ship is already in Sub-Space and moving at 1 ly per minute, how fast would they be going if they then activated the backup FTL? (No, the answer is not 1.016 ly per minute)

Whoever can get this right will receive an IC payment of 1 trillion US$, and an award stating that you are the King above all nerds.

I didn't really do the reccomended reading, but it seems to be that, if you're already going 1 ly/min with the subspace thingie, and you activated the 1 ly/hr non-subspace thingie, then:

A) It'd have no effect, and you'd still be going 1 ly/min in subspace

or

B) The non-subspace thingie would make you drop out of subspace, therefore going at 1 ly/hr

Do I win anything? ;)

For a second I thought you were talking about the game SubSpace. OK, Enough hijacking. :twisted:

You don't win anything, but you get a thumbs up for trying

Cool! *pats self on back*

Can I help? *Brings out sledgehammer*

*considers while rubbing chin*

Hmm, I'd really prefer that you didn't. However, I do have some other very cool things you can use that on, if'n you'd like.

*holds out a box of Klonor's stuff*

Why thank you *Aims a few feets behind the box of Klonor's stuff*

Ha! You broke your own arm!

...

(wait for it)

...

Ye Gods! That was my arm! *runs screaming as fast as his little bepained legs will carry him*

:twisted:

I think that activating a non-subspace FTL device will force the system to fall out of subspace, because a unit can't be in subspace and realspace at the same time... Upon returning to realspace, your ship will be forced to deaccelerate at a rate of .016 lightyears per minute until it reaches a velocity of .016 lightyears per minute, constraining to the laws of physics in realspace.

Queston: Why would it decelerate at .016 ly per minute? And why would something only being able to be in one place at a time effect this? (this is not me being a smartass, I'm seriously asking)

I was thinking about it while waiting for your reply, and I'm theorizing that a speed of 1 ly/min has to slow down to sub-superluminal speeds rather quickly, otherwise it'll destroy your ship from energy loss as heat... The rate of deacceleration has to be significant, and I used your final velocity as the sample for the deceleration constant; I imagine it's quite a bit higher, and more heat-dissipating, than that.
As for the ship having to be in one place at the same time, that's just a simple matter of the ship violating dimensional boundaries if it existed in two places at the same time. It might be possible to exist in two places at the same time in realspace, if you were traveling superluminally, but you can't be in two completely different dimensions at once; it would be impossible because the energy associated with your ship is not multi-dimensional. It's just not materially possible, because you've taken the energy of your ship completely out of realspace's universe; for you to affect realspace again, you have to be in realspace.

Edit: If this is poorly explained, I apologize. High-energy physics is only my hobby at the moment, and it's also 3:45am at the time of this writing. ;)

Edit 2: Superluminal speeds would actually destroy your ships in realspace (special theory of relativity, speed of light being unbreakable, etc.), so you'd probably lose all your momentum in the shift from subspace to realspace...

I think you're going for relativistic velocity addition with this. Since I'm home for the winter, I don't have my relativity texts with me, so I don't recall the formula. I do know that it gets wacky at c, though, so I'm not sure what would happen if you started adding FTL speeds together.

When using Sub-Space (the 1 ly per minute FTL) the transfer from FTL to STL is instananeous (I know it's not possible. Like I said in the title, this is nowhere near realistic). It's being in Sub-Space (regardless of your non-Sub-Space speed) that makes you move at 1 ly per minute. So, as soon as you leave Sub-Space you're back to your previous speed.

And I know the ship has to be in one place at one time. The ship is. The backup FTL (the 1 ly per hour) does't have to be in realsapce, I'm pretty sure it'd work in Sub-Space.

So, the backup FTL would work in SUb-Space (not in RL, but it NS).

I don't think relativistic addition will work at superluminal velocities, because the theories of relativity deny that the speed of light is breakable; it's a limit constant. (As lim(x ---> c)...) I do, however, think that the properties of different dimensions don't transfer over; if you stick your finger in a two-dimensional universe, the two dimensional beings only experience a circle with more circles in it, which we see as cylinders and eventually a finger. Subspace uses different rules than realspace, so superluminal velocity in subspace will be forced to back down to realspace velocities with respect to the limit of the speed of light as soon as the second superluminal system engages.
The only question in my mind at the moment is when the slowdown occurs; does it occur during the shift from subspace to realspace, or does realspace force a slowdown over a short period of time and dissipate the excess energy as heat?

Edit: If you engaged the second device in subspace, you wouldn't experience a change, because you're not in realspace. The subspace velocity takes precedence, and I think you might actually experience a slowdown because the force behind your ship is lower using the realspace-intended device.

Okay, this conversation has gotten WAY over my head. I'm a bright kid, I'm in all the advanced courses at school, but I am so lost I make Colombus look like he had a GPS. I'm a high school student trying to use an FTL system that I've taken from a video game, and I find myself making an ass of myself talking to people who actually know what they're talking about (Complex, isn't it?)

I am now going to quietly step out of this conversation, since any grasp I once had on it went out the window a long time ago.

Sadly, I'm only a senior in high school... :?

You know what's even sadder? I managed to get an 'A' in a college Astrophysics course.

Trips to Border's Books are your friend. I have enough stuff on theoretical, dimensional, atomic, and high-energy physics to make a physics major cringe... ;)
I also took an astronomy course, I taught the prof more about astrophysics than he taught me; though he did introduce me to dark matter/energy and virtual particles...

You know what's even sadder? I got a 'C' in the only physics class I've taken so far in my pathetically un-mathematical liberal arts education! Guess I win, eh?

*puts on his smug expression*

The thing is I wasn't palnning on there being any kind of discussion here. There should have, ideally, been two posts in response to my first one. One post with a person saying what the speed would be, me saying "thank you" and "money wired." I shouldn't have had to think at all

*puts on his smug expression*

You want me to get out the hammer again?

The thing is I wasn't palnning on there being any kind of discussion here. There should have, ideally, been two posts in response to my first one. One post with a person saying what the speed would be, me saying "thank you" and "money wired." I shouldn't have had to think at all
In physics, especially high-level physics, there's no such thing as a short answer. :mrgreen:

You wouldn't hit a guy with glasses, wouldja?

*puts on glasses and continues to look smug*

What glasses?

*Uses secret anti-glasses laser beam*

Mega, this isn't high-level physics, it's video game physics. So there!

And let me get this straight, you're saying that by engaging the second FTL drive while in Sub-Space, the ship would slow down? How so?

Phooey and double phooey!

*looks around*

Ah...right!

*runs away again*

If it was video game physics you wouldn't have asked the question; it would have been "because I said so". Because you asked, you got a real physics answer. :)

Edit: The slower superluminal drive pushes with a lot less force than the first superluminal drive; so if you disengage one to engage the other, you're decreasing the force available to push the ship to its maximum velocity. Because of the nature of the universe, you're going to lose energy due to resistance, etc., reducing your ship's speed over time.
If you engaged BOTH at the same time, well, you'd run out of energy faster, so you'd eventually have to shut down both drives and coast until you ejected through your waypoint, suffering the same instantaneous slowdown that I mentioned earlier as you pass through the dimensional boundaries of this universe and subspace.

Run, Run, as fast as you can! You can't catch me, I'm the Gingerbread Man! Oh, wait. I'm chasing you.

*hops in go-cart and roars away*

but I didn't ask why (originally), I only asked what the result would be.

The result IS the why; physics is a result with proof. No proof, the result is not repeatable, and therefore the theory behind it is invalid. "Why" is critical to physics. :)

By the way, I edited my last post in reponse to your query about the slowdown effect.

Ah, but you forgot about it being Sub-Space and not being real. While massive amounts of energy are required to enter and exit Sub-Space, there is no energy required to maintiain being in Sub-Space. Since being in Sub-Space is what makes the ship go 1 ly per minute then there is an uninhibited amount of energy free to engage and maintain the second FTL (which does require energy to maintain). SInce the energy is available you can use both types of FTL at the same time, thus the speed would be greater than either one individually.

Not if you like your ship to stay in one piece; both drives require constant force to maintain velocity, otherwise the ship will slow down. Unbalanced force will damage the ship if you happen to hit something traveling in the opposite direction of your ship, not to mention the stress put on the frame from those superluminal velocities... Any sort of maneuver and you'll shear the ship in half, not to mention the gravity shadows in subspace from realspace.

Edit: Forgot to mention that I'm going to sleep now, so I won't reply for a while. Bump this mother for me until I get back, okay? :)

1) The very fact of being in Sub-Space accelerate the ship, there is no additional energy from the ship required.

2) Due to the way Sub-Space tunnels form there can be only one ship in each tunnel, unless it was followed by another ship through it;s own Sub-Space Node, and then the other ship would be going in the same direction at the same speed, and thus unable to collide with it

3) The are no gravity shadows in Sub-Space. Sub-Space is not effected by regular space in any way

4) I'll keep it alive for you.