NationStates Jolt Archive

Just a crazy idea, but they [Menelmacar and Melkor Unchained] are both mods and one is a good, elven nation and the other is an evil, orcish nation. Why don't they fight? That would make a very nice, interesting RP that would surely involve much of the NationStates world.

[EDIT: I know it might never happen without throwing the world into chaos due to the fact that those two nations keep the game in balance.]

[EDIT 2: This is just a question. I am not saying that I'd want them to fight or not want them to fight or anything like that.]

That would be the end of the world as we know it. Haven't you heard of Cold Wars?...

Umm... because we've already determined that it'd be IC ubernasty and OOC just plain impossible to deal with? If it's no fun...

--Scolo

Haven't there been a few skirmishes before? Or is that my memory playing tricks on me?

But anyway, now that they're both super - no, hyper - no, UBER-powers, they both know they can't fight each-other.

Ever heard of a little thing called "mutual assured destruction?"

They'd probably plunge NationStates into a literal World War. Not any of those fake World Wars that are really just a few alliances fighting, but a World War in which every RP nation would be involved. That'd probably mean that half the good RP nations that just happened to pick the wrong side would be ruined for some time. Maybe just a thought is better than a real war like that.

There are actual continegncies against this sort of thing. They used to be at each other's throats, but it's quieted down over the last few months. Basically, they figured that between them and their allies, they had enough firepower to reduce NS Earth, and much of the solar system, to smoking cinders. So, the Bitchfect 2003 Protocol (BF2K3P) was instituted by the major powers of NS to ensure that they didn't come to blows. Remember the ToY-Arda war of the summer (When Gods Go To War)? Imagine something like that, only bigger and whinier.

I'd like to see somebody to do a in depth analyses of both sides, including their military strengths, alliances ties, etc. I'd basically be a reassurance that yes, a huge freakin' war would be the result.

They'd probably plunge NationStates into a literal World War. Not any of those fake World Wars that are really just a few alliances fighting, but a World War in which every RP nation would be involved. That'd probably mean that half the good RP nations that just happened to pick the wrong side would be ruined for some time. Maybe just a thought is better than a real war like that.

And the cons?


Consul Supreme McCallister
Head of State, Dominion and Principalities of Eredron
http://www.ccadp.org/flag-trinidad.gif (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=display_nation/nation=eredron)

Remember the ToY-Arda war of the summer (When Gods Go To War)? Imagine something like that, only bigger and whinier.

That was more UTP vs Arda. The only ToY nation that was involved to my memory was Angelus.

There are actual continegncies against this sort of thing. They used to be at each other's throats, but it's quieted down over the last few months. Basically, they figured that between them and their allies, they had enough firepower to reduce NS Earth, and much of the solar system, to smoking cinders. So, the Bitchfect 2003 Protocol (BF2K3P) was instituted by the major powers of NS to ensure that they didn't come to blows. Remember the ToY-Arda war of the summer (When Gods Go To War)? Imagine something like that, only bigger and whinier.
I don't remember the Trium being involved with that... BF2K3P was the express reason we stayed out of that one.

We handed off... I think... 20,000 antiquated powersuits to Ur. That was it.

--Scolo

bok bok bok...

I don't remember the Trium being involved with that... BF2K3P was the express reason we stayed out of that one.

We handed off... I think... 20,000 antiquated powersuits to Ur. That was it.

--Scolo

I could have sworn Yut was involved in that. I know Angelus was, and by extension any attack on Angelus would be an attack on Yut. Or some such. At any rate, it was entirely too complicated and bitchy.

I hope I'm not giving any ideas from this thread. I'd reroute my First and Second Assault Corps to stop any massive war between Menelemacar and Melkor Unchained.

Angelus was on the aggressor side, remember? Wasn't attacked until afterwards, "unilaterally" by Sketch. And that was bitchy too. Wars just suck.

I could have sworn Yut was involved in that. I know Angelus was, and by extension any attack on Angelus would be an attack on Yut. Or some such. At any rate, it was entirely too complicated and bitchy.

:points to his above post:

Angelus was the only Yut nation involved, but ended up backing out when Melkor bitched at him/her for taking like 2 casualties. UTP was the main fighting force, I should know because for awhile I (of all people) was acting General of UTP forces.

I hope I'm not giving any ideas from this thread. I'd reroute my First and Second Assault Corps to stop any massive war between Menelemacar and Melkor Unchained.
That would be like devoting the Lichtenstein militia to stop a war between the United States and the Soviet Union in 1965.

I hope I'm not giving any ideas from this thread. I'd reroute my First and Second Assault Corps to stop any massive war between Menelemacar and Melkor Unchained.

Aside from the fact that i really wonder why you oocly ask about it when it should be ic actions of the players determining what happens...

Don`t you think you´re just a little bit too... how could i put it gently... ah, yes, irrelevant to mess with things like that?

And the cons?

I agree.

I hope I'm not giving any ideas from this thread. I'd reroute my First and Second Assault Corps to stop any massive war between Menelemacar and Melkor Unchained.

Aside from the fact that i really wonder why you oocly ask about it when it should be ic actions of the players determining what happens...

Don`t you think you´re just a little bit too... how could i put it gently... ah, yes, irrelevant to mess with things like that?

Who are you to decide what the Resurrected Lands of Nanakaland does or says?

Don`t you think you´re just a little bit too... how could i put it gently... ah, yes, irrelevant to mess with things like that?

Children... :roll:
Let's not get bitchy, now, shall we? :wink:

any 2 super powers fighting will anillnate everything. :shock: :twisted:




:twisted: I'm not evil just twisted :twisted:

Who are you to decide what the Resurrected Lands of Nanakaland does or says?

*Hands over a magnifying glass*

Perhaps my name is easier to read now :)

Besides, we just don´t wanna see your forces being crushed by something (much) bigger than you... which both, Arda and several alliances Menelmacar is in, are. It´s completely altruistic :P

Who said I was against Menelemacar? You are putting words in my mouth. You don't scare me, Der Angst. I have many allies out there, including the region of the Heartland, and of course I am on friendly terms with Belem, and the defence region I'm in isn't too small. If you mess with me, you mess with my allies.

Makes me jealous, talking like that. Not all of us have been here all year!

*Looks at Nanakaland, remembers that I bought my first weapons from him and Chimea, then notices that he is larger than that country, cries*

OOC: Didn't an alliance of nations attempt to do battle with Melkor unchained, and the entire RP failed miserably?

As I remember it, no-one said anything about wanting to start a war with anyone.

The Resurrected Lands of Nanakaland has almost been here a year. May I remind everyone that we were created in March, delted due to inactivity this summer when I moved, and then brought back in November?

The Resurrected Lands of Nanakaland is a massive, environmentally stunning nation, renowned for its punitive income tax rates. Its compassionate population of 1.022 billion have some civil rights, but not too many, enjoy the freedom to spend their money however they like, to a point, and take part in free and open elections, although not too often.

It is difficult to tell where the omnipresent government stops and the rest of society begins, but it devotes most of its attentions to Defence, with areas such as Healthcare and Commerce receiving almost no funds by comparison. The average income tax rate is 94%. A powerhouse of a private sector is dominated by the Automobile Manufacturing industry.

The Nanakabird is a protected species, military spending is on the increase, the judicial system legislates morality, and citizens are enjoying a recent large cut in taxes. Crime -- especially youth-related -- is totally unknown, thanks to the all-pervasive police force and progressive social policies in education and welfare. Nanakaland's national animal is the nanakabird, which frolics freely in the nation's many lush forests, and its currency is the Nanakaland Nanakan.

Nanakaland is ranked 21st in the region and 94,681st in the world for Largest Soda Pop Sector.

OOC: Actualy, once they got the OOC bitching out of the way, the war was actualy one of the better ones that I have seen...

OOC: Didn't an alliance of nations attempt to do battle with Melkor unchained, and the entire RP failed miserably?

OOC: My point was that large-scale conflicts are very difficult to coordinate.

Roseway - don't worry; alliances are two a penny, if you know where to look. Join a few diplomacy RPs - or if you're a monarchy, a couple of "we have spare royal brats to marry off in mmarriages of convenience" threads, and you'll have allies coming out of your ears.

At least, that's the theory.

OOC: That was an IC issue, as far as I saw, noone in the anti-Morgoth forces actualy had any co-ordination with each other. Unlike in say, The Shadow War (SATO vs. GDODAD), even though the GDODAD lost, we had a good deal of co-ordination with each other, one of the reasons we lasted as long as we did.

Who said I was against Menelemacar? You are putting words in my mouth. You don't scare me, Der Angst. I have many allies out there, including the region of the Heartland, and of course I am on friendly terms with Belem, and the defence region I'm in isn't too small. If you mess with me, you mess with my allies.

OMG NOES, YOU SCARE ME!

*PH34RS*

~ Ministry for international mockery, DA

OOC: Actualy, once they got the OOC bitching out of the way, the war was actualy one of the better ones that I have seen...

Agreed.

And I do find it mildly ironic that apparently certain parties can agree on the B2F8SSz0r protocol, but NOT agree as to some basic ground rules as to how to fight a large war. In fact, being game mods and such highly esteemed roleplayers, one would think they could do this fairly easily.

But it's much more fun when the two worst enemies of Tolkien's universe never fight, and in fact fight together on the same side every so often, without ever having to worry about anyone but the hordes of littler nations they like to pound on to show off their "uberness," yes?

Oh, I'm in plenty of alliances. I even started one. I've been here a lot longer than you think. (With other puppets of course.)

Who said I was against Menelemacar? You are putting words in my mouth. You don't scare me, Der Angst. I have many allies out there, including the region of the Heartland, and of course I am on friendly terms with Belem, and the defence region I'm in isn't too small. If you mess with me, you mess with my allies.

OMG NOES, YOU SCARE ME!

*PH34RS*

~ Ministry for international mockery, DA

I'm sure that you're on the line of destruction. One day you'll mess with the wrong person and that'll be the last thing anyone hears from you. Oh. And I wasn't intending on scaring you.

OOC: Must we constanly have 'pissing contests'? Trade useless words and empty threats over telegrams, so the rest of us don't have to hear it.

Superpowers slugging it out makes for pretty dull RP;

"I launch my missiles"
"so do I",
"well, guess the planet's glass then"
"guess so... so now what?"
"dunno - how do you RP microbes? 'cause that's all that's left..."

- whereas a cold war gives opportunities for espionage and intrigue. I know which I'd pick.

Superpowers slugging it out makes for pretty dull RP;

"I launch my missiles"
"so do I",
"well, guess the planet's glass then"
"guess so... so now what?"
"dunno - how do you RP microbes? 'cause that's all that's left..."

- whereas a cold war gives opportunities for espionage and intrigue. I know which I'd pick.

*Agrees*

And lets face it: Common enemies can make everyone to work together. Why not Menelmacar and Melkor? It´s not like they found an alliance...

And since both sides have something to loose, both sides are reluctant to risk it.

Seriously, i can´t see the problem people have with their (rare) cooperation... (@SB, this part)

Don't look now, but Menelmacar and Melkor are both browsing this forum.

Don't look now, but Menelmacar and Melkor are both browsing this forum.

NOOO!!!!

THAT MEANS WAR!

I`m shocked.

Superpowers slugging it out makes for pretty dull RP;

"I launch my missiles"
"so do I",
"well, guess the planet's glass then"
"guess so... so now what?"
"dunno - how do you RP microbes? 'cause that's all that's left..."

- whereas a cold war gives opportunities for espionage and intrigue. I know which I'd pick.

Oh come on, anyone with a bit of imagination.... i.e the two parties involved... can make it much more interesting than that. It's all about setting up the ground rules. I can think of numerous ways to do it to make it easier to coordinate, ways that are no more difficult to do than the bitchfest protocol.

And espionage and intrigue lose their... well, intrigue, when everyone KNOWS for a fact that the two powers are never, ever going to fight. Ho-hum, they might as well be allied.

Just a crazy idea, but they [Menelmacar and Melkor Unchained] are both mods and one is a good, elven nation and the other is an evil, orcish nation. Why don't they fight? That would make a very nice, interesting RP that would surely involve much of the NationStates world. ANd when its over there would be a huge power vaccum in wich smaller nation(such as my self) would be able to loot pillage conqure and steal what ever they want from the loser(And maybe the winner if its casualitys climb high enugoh)

I fought Melkor: 50,000 New Genoans and 800,000 Uruks died (in one BATTLE). Now, imagine what would happen if Melkor and Menelmacar went to all-out war? :shock: (they did many moons ago; on two occasions IIRC)

And the Gods go to War threads sickened me. Everyone became a bitchfest. Even when Melkor and the Reich tried to invade me -- bitchfest. The only good part of that war was the Battle of Southport... and the war was retconned before the forces really engaged each other face-to-face!

GAH!

Well then. I think a large conflict between us would require a level of sacrifice that I dont think any of us would be willing to accept. Our alliances are intricate: Arda has the greater military power, but Menelmacar have more allies to pool and what-not. So essentially, there would be fronts everywhere.

I mean, I'd do it, but only if the outcomes and so forth were predetermined. Still, it would be an incredible chore.

Well then. I think a large conflict between us would require a level of sacrifice that I dont think any of us would be willing to accept. Our alliances are intricate: Arda has the greater military power, but Menelmacar have more allies to pool and what-not. So essentially, there would be fronts everywhere.

I mean, I'd do it, but only if the outcomes and so forth were predetermined. Still, it would be an incredible chore.
Aye,

It would take weeks, nay, months of negotiations, planning, and discussion over mIRC to set up a successful war RP.

And then there is the fact that the war would cover more fronts than one could shake a stick at, and no matter who one, it would toss the NS world into chaos.

Could be lots of fun, but would take a shit load of work and time, time some of us don't have.

And espionage and intrigue lose their... well, intrigue, when everyone KNOWS for a fact that the two powers are never, ever going to fight. Ho-hum, they might as well be allied.

People DON'T know that - IC or OOC. OOC there's the BF2K3whatever protocol, but either of them could give that up whenever it's to their advantage - or whenever they get bored, for that matter - and IC there's no reason for them not to attack each other the minute it becomes to their advantage.

The thing is, the same thing was true of the USA and the USSR. Both would have annihilated the other for ideological reasons, if they didn't know they'd go down with them. If something had happened which had meant the US could safely take on Russia with minimal casualties, they would have - and vice versa. The same is true of Melk and Menel IC. And even if we assume a war is never gonna happen for OOC reasons - well, we can stiull have fun trying to cause or prevent (depending on your ideology) one in IC roleplays. After all, the roleplay characters don't know about Melk and Menel's OOC agreements, do they? So they don't know - even if the people RPing them do - that the war won't happen.

Yeah, had the USA or the USSR ever gotten ICBM's accurate enough and stealthy enough to launch a disarming first strike, the entire balance of the Cold War would have been completely altered.

All the more reason to get started right away. :wink:

I mean, nationstates isn't going anywhere, is it? Anyway, the wars and fronts opened up as a result could be handled differently from the "main war." For the latter, all you'd need are two individuals (cue Morgoth and Siri) to do the main war RPing as far as events, tactics, and such. A time scale of some kind would have to be agreed upon so no one could overwhelm the enemy with dozens of posts while they were away. The "contingent nations" who would follow you two into war, would RP their forces, but the main combat would be resolved in some relatively objective manner by the two main nations. Essentially Melkor and Siri would "lead" the huge multi-national forces, which would be defined beforehand (not after or during), and the nations whose forces they (technically..) belong to could RP things besides combat resolution (like the effects of said combat, and characters involved, etc).

Lastly you'd probably need a good neutral GM of some kind to oversee all this. And, it'd be basically invite only, and with the timescale newcomers (if they were invited) couldn't just leap into the fray having mobilized all their forces instantly.

It'd be hard, yes, but comeonyouknowyouwanna. :P

I know something like this has been tried before, and failed, but in my mind that's merely a challenge to learn from past mistakes, not give up with the whole artificial OOC agreement.

Just something to think about.

The Cold War would have ended - things would have become very warm indeed for one side or the other - and anyone caught in the crossfire, infact.

If something had happened which had meant the US could safely take on Russia with minimal casualties, they would have - and vice versa. The same is true of Melk and Menel IC. And even if we assume a war is never gonna happen for OOC reasons - well, we can stiull have fun trying to cause or prevent (depending on your ideology) one in IC roleplays. After all, the roleplay characters don't know about Melk and Menel's OOC agreements, do they? So they don't know - even if the people RPing them do - that the war won't happen.

Yeah, but speaking as one of the apparently "non-uperpower" nations, it's a bit disappointing to try to RP trying for a major change in political balance that I, as the player, know will never happen. Makes me rather bother with things whose results are not foregone conclusions, it's more fun to effect political changes than effect reinforcing an artificially-enstated status quo.

Besides, with the USA and the USSR there was nuclear death. Technology was such that there was no defense against each other's weapons, and only MAD assured the peace. That is not the case with now, where everyone has different technologies and defenses and, from where I'm standing, the results ARENT foregone, ICly or OOCly.

SantaBarbara: Personally, I agree with their decision - the Cold War option requires a lot more subtlety, and incidentaly takes them out of the spotlight and allows other, newer nations a chance to shine while they occupy themselves with their modly duties.

I'm sure that, if and when NS starts to stagnate, one or the other will step in and stir things up again - that's happened a coupla times before, and I think it'll happen again. But is still think a Melk. vs. Menel. war would be too complicated and would just die - either by becoming a bitchfest or because half the alliances simply ignore it 'cause their participants wouldn't have the time to devote the time it required to the RP.

They like each other too much now to go to war... :D

Because a war would go something like this.

intSiri= Good

intGood= GoodGroupies

intMelkor= Evil

intEvil= EvilGroupies

intGoodGroupies + intEvilGroupies = 1/2total_nation_count

think about it, NS earth would be gone from the simple matter of one side launching nukes, then the other side.

It's just plain MAD.

Two words:

Nuclear winter.

All the nations not in Earth or in Sol and that really don't have a position with either side wave and say......
"GOOD BYE EARTH!" :shock: :shock:
Oh, and Mars, and Venus, and the Galilean Moons, and Pluto, and Mercury, and oh, hell just forget the Sol System even exists.

Why stop at the Solar System? I'm betting the war would drag in Alpha Centauri.

http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/images/07-minister.jpg

The threat of Menelcamar and Melkor has been greatly exaggerated.

http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/uploads/melkor_unchained.jpg The Imperial Dominion of Melkor Unchained

"War is simply an extension of policy by other means"

UN Category: Compulsory Consumerist State
Civil Rights: Below Average
Economy: Frightening
Political Freedoms: Outlawed

Location: Arda

http://www.nationstates.net/images/gamemod.gif http://www.nationstates.net/images/un_member.gif

The Imperial Dominion of Melkor Unchained is a massive, economically powerful nation, notable for its complete absence of social welfare. Its hard-nosed, hard-working, cynical population of 1.866 billion are rabid consumers, partly through choice and partly because the government tells them to and dissenters tend to vanish from their homes at night.

It is difficult to tell where the omnipresent, corrupt, pro-business government stops and the rest of society begins, but it devotes most of its attentions to Defence, with areas such as Social Equality and Social Welfare receiving almost no funds by comparison. Citizens pay a flat income tax of 88%. A powerhouse of a private sector is led by the Gambling industry, followed by Uranium Mining and Arms Manufacturing.

The country is preparing for war, there are no minimum wage laws, protesters are up in arms over new nuclear power stations, and the government extracts trade concessions from poor nations in exchange for humanitarian aid. Crime is pervasive. Melkor Unchained's national animal is the wolf, which teeters on the brink of extinction due to widespread deforestation, and its currency is the credit.


VS.


http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/uploads/menelmacar.jpg The Eternal Noldorin Empire of Menelmacar

"Minë arnanorë nu minë iluvala Elentári."

UN Category: Left-Leaning College State
Civil Rights: Superb
Economy: Frightening
Political Freedoms: Below Average

Location: Tareldanore

http://www.nationstates.net/images/gamemod.gif

The Eternal Noldorin Empire of Menelmacar is a massive, safe nation, notable for its complete absence of social welfare. Its hard-nosed, hard-working population of 2.137 billion enjoy extensive civil freedoms, particularly in social issues, while business tends to be more regulated.

It is difficult to tell where the omnipresent government stops and the rest of society begins, but it concentrates mainly on Defence, although Education and Commerce are secondary priorities. Citizens pay a flat income tax of 50%. A powerhouse of a private sector is led by the Book Publishing, Information Technology, and Automobile Manufacturing industries.

Menelmacar's children are widely acknowledged as the most foul-mouthed in the region, the latest Harry Potter book is a bestseller, scientists regularly clone human beings for research purposes, and people are now classified as male, female, or genderqueer. Crime -- especially youth-related -- is totally unknown, thanks to the all-pervasive police force and progressive social policies in education and welfare. Menelmacar's national animal is the Great Eagle, which teeters on the brink of extinction due to widespread deforestation, and its currency is the Menelmacari credit.

Why stop at the Solar System? I'm betting the war would drag in Alpha Centauri.

Why Alpha Centauri? The Proxima Centauri Defense Initiative (myself a senior co-founder) has nothing to do overtly with either side.

The only way a war between Melkor and Menelmacar would not cause the total destruction of the world would be if each side agreed not to use nukes before hand. And yes, a massive war like this would likely expand beyond the Solar System. I'm just glad that such a huge war hasn't happened yet nor is it likely to happen for quite sometime. MAD-while not the optimum situation is definitely a comfortable one.

The only way a war between Melkor and Menelmacar would not cause the total destruction of the world would be if each side agreed not to use nukes before hand. And yes, a massive war like this would likely expand beyond the Solar System. I'm just glad that such a huge war hasn't happened yet nor is it likely to happen for quite sometime. MAD-while not the optimum situation is definitely a comfortable one.

beyond the solar system....?*shudders in fear and holds Pleiades Cluster tight*

Why stop at the Solar System? I'm betting the war would drag in Alpha Centauri.

Why Alpha Centauri? The Proxima Centauri Defense Initiative (myself a senior co-founder) has nothing to do overtly with either side.

I said the first star system that came to my head.

Well, essentially, it's a deadlock either way. If Arda won, the Allied powers would be driven out of the Solar Sytem pretty much, save probably for scattered strongholds on earth.

If the Allies won, it would probably banish Arda to the nether reaches of the galaxy, perhaps to rise again.

Well, essentially, it's a deadlock either way. If Arda won, the Allied powers would be driven out of the Solar Sytem pretty much, save probably for scattered strongholds on earth.

If the Allies won, it would probably banish Arda to the nether reaches of the galaxy, perhaps to rise again.

That preview sounds like a good book. Now I want a war.

Actualy, I would want to see a war between them. I would end up staying out of it, and with me in the Pleiades cluster (alone, I might add), I would be safe. The war would end up annialating both sides, and only leaving the nations that had been nutral (mostly ones that wern't on the earth) around as actual powers.

(Oh, and Terrens and Elves wishing to escape the solar system would be welcome to settle in the Pleiades cluster)

If a war between Menelmacar and Melkor_Unchained would happen over the current roleplay in my nation. I'd enforce a strict limited ammount of involved nations. Not sure on ammount yet.

Reason why I posted this is because I wanted to post something in this thread, I felt left out :(

The war would end up annialating both sides, and only leaving the nations that had been nutral (mostly ones that wern't on the earth) around as actual powers.

Yeah, right. To use an annoying, American phrase - ever heard of "Colateral damage"? Do you honestly believe that when the shi... when the excrteta hits the air-circulation device, none of it'll splatter on the neutrals? A nuclear winter affects the whole planet, and even if no nukes were used, you can bet your life one sidfe or other will find it tactically advantageous to move the battlefronts into neutral countries - for example, if one lies between a "goodie" country and a "baddie" country, taking bets on where the battle-lines will be drawn?

Why would either side find it advantageous to INCREASE the number of enemies they had to fight? From the sounds of things they'd need to concentrate on each other.

Well, essentially, it's a deadlock either way. If Arda won, the Allied powers would be driven out of the Solar Sytem pretty much, save probably for scattered strongholds on earth.

If the Allies won, it would probably banish Arda to the nether reaches of the galaxy, perhaps to rise again.

That preview sounds like a good book. Now I want a war.

Provoke one.

The war would end up annialating both sides, and only leaving the nations that had been nutral (mostly ones that wern't on the earth) around as actual powers.

Yeah, right. To use an annoying, American phrase - ever heard of "Colateral damage"? Do you honestly believe that when the shi... when the excrteta hits the air-circulation device, none of it'll splatter on the neutrals? A nuclear winter affects the whole planet, and even if no nukes were used, you can bet your life one sidfe or other will find it tactically advantageous to move the battlefronts into neutral countries - for example, if one lies between a "goodie" country and a "baddie" country, taking bets on where the battle-lines will be drawn?

notice I said mostly ones that wern't on the Earth. I know most of the nations on earth would be decimated. But NS earth is so large that at least a few of the nations would survive intact (mostly)

Why would either side find it advantageous to INCREASE the number of enemies they had to fight? From the sounds of things they'd need to concentrate on each other.

Tactical reasons. If the quickest way from big nation A to big nation B is through smaller, neutral nation C, both sides are going to take that route. The "good guys" would probably ask first, whereas the "bad guys" would just invade, but either the lines would meet halfway through C and C would be seriously screwed, or the lines would be one side or the other of C, in which case C would be within the area of influence of one of the sides and thus considered - by the enemy - to be part of that side.

Well, essentially, it's a deadlock either way. If Arda won, the Allied powers would be driven out of the Solar Sytem pretty much, save probably for scattered strongholds on earth.

If the Allies won, it would probably banish Arda to the nether reaches of the galaxy, perhaps to rise again.

That preview sounds like a good book. Now I want a war.

Provoke one.

The Nanakaland government has just realized that we have a 17 million elven population. Now I just need to ally with Menelmacar and provoke Melkore Unchained.... :twisted:

The Nanakaland government has just realized that we have a 17 million elven population. Now I just need to ally with Menelmacar and provoke Melkore Unchained.... :twisted:

... and one of the following will happen:
(a) Melkor will ignore you like the bug you are (compared to him, anyway).
(b) Melkor will decide that this insect is annoying enough to squish, and will do so. Menelmacar will hel;p evacuate as many elves as they can to their nation - which Melkor won't attack - and maybe help defend your nation, but won't attack Melkor. I doubt Melkor'd engage Menelmacari forces, either - he wouldn't want a war, as we've said -he'd just blast the parts of your nation they weren't guarding to glass. They can't be everywhere, after all.

Why would either side find it advantageous to INCREASE the number of enemies they had to fight? From the sounds of things they'd need to concentrate on each other.

Tactical reasons. If the quickest way from big nation A to big nation B is through smaller, neutral nation C, both sides are going to take that route. The "good guys" would probably ask first, whereas the "bad guys" would just invade, but either the lines would meet halfway through C and C would be seriously screwed, or the lines would be one side or the other of C, in which case C would be within the area of influence of one of the sides and thus considered - by the enemy - to be part of that side.

You're thinking in 20th century warfare terms. In the uber-far-future space age both sides are in, the quickest way from nation A to B is using air or space. Especially with the lightning quick rate of combat of modern and particularly future wars. (It would probably only take a long time in RP terms, what with the massive amount of RP required.) And, considering no one seems to take into account geography anyway, both armies would just magically blip in front of each other already. Literally. (Teleporting or webgates, anyone? Hell, just dropships after the big fleet battle.)

I mean even if you ignore all but the roleplaying and forumer nations, there are still hundreds if not more nations in between these powers on the map. Going through them all would be the definite long way around. (Especially if one of them is me, wink wink.)

The Nanakaland government has just realized that we have a 17 million elven population. Now I just need to ally with Menelmacar and provoke Melkore Unchained.... :twisted:

... and one of the following will happen:
(a) Melkor will ignore you like the bug you are (compared to him, anyway).
(b) Melkor will decide that this insect is annoying enough to squish, and will do so. Menelmacar will hel;p evacuate as many elves as they can to their nation - which Melkor won't attack - and maybe help defend your nation, but won't attack Melkor. I doubt Melkor'd engage Menelmacari forces, either - he wouldn't want a war, as we've said -he'd just blast the parts of your nation they weren't guarding to glass. They can't be everywhere, after all.

Fine. No war.

OK, but ICBMs have a nasty tendancy to go astray. And "smart missile" is an oxymoron. Oh, and you don't think Melkor'd de trying to grab some territory while his armies were already mobilised?

Go ahead, nuke each other. I'm off planet.

But, with the NS World roughly 80 times the size of Jupiter, I doubt nuclear winter would go across the whole planet.

Go ahead, nuke each other. I'm off planet.

But, with the NS World roughly 80 times the size of Jupiter, I doubt nuclear winter would go across the whole planet.

Go ahead, nuke each other. I'm off planet.

But, with the NS World roughly 80 times the size of Jupiter, I doubt nuclear winter would go across the whole planet.

Go ahead, nuke each other. I'm off planet.

But, with the NS World roughly 80 times the size of Jupiter, I doubt nuclear winter would go across the whole planet.
triple post :wink:

The Nanakaland government has just realized that we have a 17 million elven population. Now I just need to ally with Menelmacar and provoke Melkore Unchained.... :twisted:

... and one of the following will happen:
(a) Melkor will ignore you like the bug you are (compared to him, anyway).
(b) Melkor will decide that this insect is annoying enough to squish, and will do so. Menelmacar will hel;p evacuate as many elves as they can to their nation - which Melkor won't attack - and maybe help defend your nation, but won't attack Melkor. I doubt Melkor'd engage Menelmacari forces, either - he wouldn't want a war, as we've said -he'd just blast the parts of your nation they weren't guarding to glass. They can't be everywhere, after all.

Fine. No war.

Not to mention Melkor's Sky Furnace. *shudders*

Not to mention Melkor's Sky Furnace. *shudders*
why is everyone so afraid? After all, I got the ultamite weapon. *points to Morning Star V*

Go ahead, nuke each other. I'm off planet.

But, with the NS World roughly 80 times the size of Jupiter, I doubt nuclear winter would go across the whole planet.x3

Go ahead, triple-post. But with the number of nukes on NS earth similarly greater than on real-earth, the nuklear winter would have the same effect - it'd just take more nukes to do it. But there'd be more flying around, so same effect.

Not to mention Melkor's Sky Furnace. *shudders*
why is everyone so afraid? After all, I got the ultamite weapon. *points to Morning Star V*

Sky Furnace = huge flamethrower = 20,000 dead New Genoese Marines

Not to mention Melkor's Sky Furnace. *shudders*
why is everyone so afraid? After all, I got the ultamite weapon. *points to Morning Star V*

Sky Furnace = huge flamethrower = 20,000 dead New Genoese Marines
ah, yes, now it rings a bell. I forgot what that does.

I still say my MSV does more damage in the long run

Such discussions only promote new nations like our own to think the worst!

Come such a revolting situation we would have to do an Ostrich, i.e. Bury our head, (OOC na na i'm not playing) and hope we have a world to exist within upon cessation of hostilities.

We at We are all Humanoids are pacifists, (we have to be with a nation of 18 million) and so are many others, such thoughts are not nice and do nothing to promote the positive waves needed for a good high!

Such a war would be great, if it could be pulled off. However, with such an amount of people who would join the threads would grow massively each day, so somehow posting may have to be limited as not to shit everyone off, or simply have GM style people sum everything up ever three pages or so.
It could work, but I doubt it.

Such a war would be great, if it could be pulled off. However, with such an amount of people who would join the threads would grow massively each day, so somehow posting may have to be limited as not to shit everyone off, or simply have GM style people sum everything up ever three pages or so.
It could work, but I doubt it.

Just the organisation part would surely take longer than the RP itself :shock:

I wouldn't care a fig either way. I'm still pro-Scolo

I think not. See, if you just get on with it and deal with problems as they come, if people from different timezones have the authority to make a decision, then they can fix that which occurs by telling people when things have left the Laws of Intelligence, ect. And as the threads shouldn't be moving too quickly due to the other thing I mentioned, all may go smoothish.

To hell with organisation, except in limited doses which don't interfer with the story, only guide it when it screws up.

There is still the problem of participation.... just about every RP nation on NS would have to sit up and take notice, which would mean a lot of people. even at one post per day per person, we're talking very lare numbers, and a 1pppd rule wouldnt hold up in a war, so thered likely be many more posts. Even divided over several battlefronts, itd still mean a lot of reading before one could post, which is a problem for those under computer-time restraints.

In terms of their IC relations, the question of why there wont likely be a war is a simple cost-benefit ratio. Who wins in a war? Neither Menelmacar nor Melkor. One defeats their major enemy, which is good. But, the cost to their militaries and economies would mean an end to their uberpower status. Neither wants that, a perfectly sensible IC mindset for their nations, and likely true for their OOC players as well.

Simply put, there wont be a war until cost is outweiged substantially by benefit, such as one side being unable to devise a counter for a hefty weapon or somesuch, cauising a decisive combat disavantage that would allow the other power to defeat them while still holding uberpower status.

Considering how hard it is to get a 2 on 2 war to work right, this would be a mess.

And frankly, rather boring to those of us who don't do war RPs.

If you ask me, all this just means neither power really has the "uberpower" status.

It would make an interesting ven diagram. Both game mods. One elven, one evil....

It'll never happen, unfortunately- both like to think of themselves as uber & untouchable, so they'd be loath to get into a war where they might find themselves being outfought from time to time (Menelmacar in particular).

Both parties seem pretty much desperate to maintain the status quo- the customary excuse for not going to war is usually something along the lines of them making out that they're just too brilliant to fight because it would shatter the world, or something (which is of course ridiculous for the purposes of NS, but, meh).

Scolo is right, though, in saying that if they DID go to war the fragility of certain peoples' egoes would likely result in vast, all-consuming bitchfests, with those certain people being utterly unwilling to concede anything, ever.

.::BUMP::.

... and in the end, when the radioactive dust clears, Zeronia will pick up the pieces and create a new world order! The third superpower will rise! :x

so, witch space nations would go to war? Come on, raise your hands. I need to know who would oppose me in the aftermath.

so, witch space nations would go to war? Come on, raise your hands. I need to know who would oppose me in the aftermath.

The nation of Nanakaland Moon Colony would need rescuing once the Earth is destroyed and the moon is flung through space.

so, witch space nations would go to war? Come on, raise your hands. I need to know who would oppose me in the aftermath.

The nation of Nanakaland Moon Colony would need rescuing once the Earth is destroyed and the moon is flung through space.

no, I'm asking who would still pose a threat to me. If the majoraty of Major space nations where in the war, I could possibly become a super power