NationStates Jolt Archive

Timeline:

1986 - The Soviet Haaregradian government forecloses on the properties of the Catholic Church who are unable to pay their property and business taxes
1988 - The last independant Protestant church looses it's land, all Christian houses of worship are government owned
1992 - Soviet Haaregrad invades Metropolis Industries
1994 - The percentage of Haaregradians who identify themselves as religious falls below 10%, Catholics form 5%, Protestants 4%
1997 - Haaregradia annexs Dill Row
2001 - Religious people across all of Haaregradia form less then 5% of the population, Church lands are bought up in Dill Row and Metropolis Industries
Jan 1, 2002 - The seven churches most behind on taxes are served notice that they, if still not able to pay by Jan 1, 2003 will be torn down
Jan 1, 2003 - The churches are served notice of being condemned, the relics and other historically significant artifacts inside are moved to either museums or other churches
Dec 21, 2003 - Bulldozers and demolition crews arrive, protestors attempt to block their access

Although we find Haaregradia's methods to be slightly harsher than we would prefer, we do applaud their doing away with organized religion. Xanthal has already accomplished this task, but many nations are not so lucky.

It is obvious that these buildings are not needed, otherwise they would be able to support themselves. Perhaps with us "culling the herd" so to speak some of the churches will have enough attendence to allow them to remain. Anyways, they're on land that would be perfect for low-income housing. If Christians are so charitable surely they won't mind loosing their mostly useless buildings to make room for buildings that will help families.

We couldn't agree more.

Torrhall Archtectural Salvage is intrested in the possible resusable archtectural material from these buildings. It does seem that most of your population has become less and less relegiously participant over the past two decades.

Prices will vary on age, rarity, and demand for such objects. At the moment there is a large demand for gothic gargoles and gotic doors and doorways.

Armed Christian Guerillas in Standoff With Federal Police - Haaregradia News at Noon

A young woman, in her twenties, thin and rather attractive shuffles some papers, she looks into the screen boldly and begins.

A stand off that began yesterday when demolision crews showed up to begin tearing down the 130 year old St. Luke's Cathedral has grown more tense today with revelations that some of the protestors are armed with AKs and SKSs.

When bulldozers and other equipment showed up overnight at the Cathedral the congregation arrived to protest, saying that the Church is sacred and that the workers were going to hell for tampering with god's business. Then came the younger members, who were more violent, some armed with baseball bats and knives. Police were called and a standoff ensued.

Just after noon gunshots were heard from inside the building and police shut down the block. SWAT teams have arrived and it is rumoured that the FSG(ooc: Federal Security Guards, Haaregradian KGB) may be involved in clearing the protesters. More news to come, now back to you Tom...

Torrhall Archtectural Salvage is intrested in the possible resusable archtectural material from these buildings. It does seem that most of your population has become less and less relegiously participant over the past two decades.

Prices will vary on age, rarity, and demand for such objects. At the moment there is a large demand for gothic gargoles and gotic doors and doorways.

We would be more then will to bargin for what isn't going to our museums or that hasn't been already purchased. Some nighclub bought the whole facia.

Torrhall Arch. Salvage
To: Soviet Haaregard, matter of church material.
-We have no problem with barganing. If desirable, we will send an agent for the selection/purchase of items available. We should note a particluar intrest in obtaining the material of a stone bell tower. A 'neuvu riche' from the outer islands has been intrested in an 'old bell tower' for his new manor in the Mrches. Material from a sinlge source would be easier to use. Also, is that the facade of all seven buildings, or did you mean the entire outer material of those buildings?

Torrhall Arch. Salvage
To: Soviet Haaregard, matter of church material.
-We have no problem with barganing. If desirable, we will send an agent for the selection/purchase of items available. We should note a particluar intrest in obtaining the material of a stone bell tower. A 'neuvu riche' from the outer islands has been intrested in an 'old bell tower' for his new manor in the Mrches. Material from a sinlge source would be easier to use. Also, is that the facade of all seven buildings, or did you mean the entire outer material of those buildings?

Torrhall Arch. Salvage
To: Soviet Haaregard, matter of church material.
-We have no problem with barganing. If desirable, we will send an agent for the selection/purchase of items available. We should note a particluar intrest in obtaining the material of a stone bell tower. A 'neuvu riche' from the outer islands has been intrested in an 'old bell tower' for his new manor in the Mrches. Material from a sinlge source would be easier to use. Also, is that the facade of all seven buildings, or did you mean the entire outer material of those buildings?

That's just for the one building so far. The others will be torn down this week as well. Feel free to send an agent.

Although we still find use of force to elimerate religion from society a bit disturbing, we nominally applaud Soviet Haaregrad for their decision to seperate religion from the government and the state, and to enforce taxes so no one will be able to "escape it". Tax evasion to pay taxes is a major problem, and must be stopped immediately.

However, we still find it a bit disturbing to have the citizens' rights to practice religion removed.

Foreign Affairs Ministry

Although we still find use of force to elimerate religion from society a bit disturbing, we nominally applaud Soviet Haaregrad for their decision to seperate religion from the government and the state, and to enforce taxes so no one will be able to "escape it". Tax evasion to pay taxes is a major problem, and must be stopped immediately.

However, we still find it a bit disturbing to have the citizens' rights to practice religion removed.

Foreign Affairs Ministry

The people are still free to practise religion. However, these businesses were unable to pay their taxes and therefore had their lands foreclosed on. If people wish to pray they can go to any of the other churches that have been able to keep up on tax payments, or they can pray in private. Religion is fully allowed in Haaregradia, it just isn't very popular. In fact we're in the past offered to take refugees for religious reasons.

bump

OOC: Such a provocative title and idea for such a piffling matter.

IC:

We are not sure why this is even an issue. If the churches have been ordered to run themselves as businesses (which is debatable as to its moral correctness), and they fail to pay their taxes, then they forfeit all rights of property.

on behalf of Pope Kes

Two of the condemned building have been torn down without incident. We have delivered the protesters at St. Lukes one hour to leave peacefully before we move in with SWAT teams.

Two of the condemned building have been torn down without incident. We have delivered the protesters at St. Lukes one hour to leave peacefully before we move in with SWAT teams.

I do hope you don't do anything silly like taking in live ammo. Sleeping gas would be so much more effective and wouldn't kill anyone.

Sleeping gas would be so much more effective and wouldn't kill anyone.

OOC: Tell that to the people who died in the Russian theatre.

Sleeping gas would be so much more effective and wouldn't kill anyone.

OOC: Tell that to the people who died in the Russian theatre.

OOC:

*points at the lack fo ventilation systems*

I would assume these churches have some kind of ventilation?

We also applaud your separation of church and state.As long as your people agree we do not care.

Offical Announcement from High Keeper of the Toes.

"Our Glorious faith that worships the Glory of the Foot in all of it's perfect holiness shall form it's first international mission in Soviet Haaregrad so that they may come to find Enlightenment and Deity in the Holy Feet!"

High Keeper of the Toes Narsella I
Holy Communion of The Foot

http://www.scifi.com/dune/gallery/images/alia_lrg_05.jpg
President Alia Yia Atreus
”Don’t back people into a corner, not if you want them to remain peaceful.”- Alia Yia Atreus
The Most Serene Republic of Taligari

Offical Announcement from High Keeper of the Toes.

"Our Glorious faith that worships the Glory of the Foot in all of it's perfect holiness shall form it's first international mission in Soviet Haaregrad so that they may come to find Enlightenment and Deity in the Holy Feet!"

High Keeper of the Toes Narsella I
Holy Communion of The Foot

You missionaries will be kindly told they may not enter the nation. We do not accept preachers who have not filled out a Temporary Working Visa.

Although we find Haaregradia's methods to be slightly harsher than we would prefer, we do applaud their doing away with organized religion. Xanthal has already accomplished this task, but many nations are not so lucky. We have strong religions in our nation, over 90% of our people are highly religious in one Denomination or another, all the same, the Churches were unable to make the payments.

Although we find Haaregradia's methods to be slightly harsher than we would prefer, we do applaud their doing away with organized religion. Xanthal has already accomplished this task, but many nations are not so lucky. We have strong religions in our nation, over 90% of our people are highly religious in one Denomination or another, all the same, the Churches were unable to make the payments.

OOC: So what happened to them?

Speculative inquiry from Commonwealth Consul comrade Jon Barrie: The People's Commonwealth of Beth Gellert, a land free of religious buildings, owing to the agnostic and atheist natures of the island's pioneers, wonders if it would be at all possible for the nation to take-over one of the remaining churches for use as embassy quaters in Haaregrad.

It has always seemed a shame to many in The People's Commonwealth that religious organisations -such backwards institutions- often have received the finest architectural efforts of nations. Having none ourselves it occured to one comrade attending a recent Senate meeting that perhaps we should look to acquire some in foreign territories. Consular residences seemed an ideal means of doing so.

(In truth comrade Graeme Igo has been behind pressing this notion to Haaregrad, as he thinks it would be funny for the staunchly anti-theist Commonwealth to have all of its embassies inside former churches. He's a frequently offensive fellow, yes!)

Speculative inquiry from Commonwealth Consul comrade Jon Barrie: The People's Commonwealth of Beth Gellert, a land free of religious buildings, owing to the agnostic and atheist natures of the island's pioneers, wonders if it would be at all possible for the nation to take-over one of the remaining churches for use as embassy quaters in Haaregrad.

It has always seemed a shame to many in The People's Commonwealth that religious organisations -such backwards institutions- often have received the finest architectural efforts of nations. Having none ourselves it occured to one comrade attending a recent Senate meeting that perhaps we should look to acquire some in foreign territories. Consular residences seemed an ideal means of doing so.

(In truth comrade Graeme Igo has been behind pressing this notion to Haaregrad, as he thinks it would be funny for the staunchly anti-theist Commonwealth to have all of its embassies inside former churches. He's a frequently offensive fellow, yes!)

Certainly, the best piece of property is St. Luke's Cathedral, which is the one at the heart of this matter. We'll sell it to you for $454 000, that's the property, building and everything. It will also be tax exempt, what a deal!

Then it is settled! Funds shall be transfered.

Diplomatic staff will be dispatched at once to examine the property, with engineering consultants, as some internal modification will likely be required.

..Hm, it appears that Haaregradian Christian protestors may be active on newly acquired Commonwealth soil!

(Comrade Igo is disarmed and restrained to prevent an international incident)

Don't worry, we'll have them removed before your people get here. The SWAT teams are all ready to go with flashbangs, tear gas and rubber bullets.