RP Getting Bad On NS? (OOC)
Jaxusism
16-12-2003, 02:18
I believe so...
What ever happened to these types of wars?
... you have nukes, I have proof you've used nuclear action in previous wars. i want you to take out your nukes
i admit (which never happens) i have nukes. i admit i will use them if i need to.
we are now placing a blockade on your nation which will be followed invasion if you dont comply with our demands.
or
... your nation has stolen many products, taking many unauthorized pictures, and i declare if you do not stop your misdoing i will be forced with military action.
we have not taken any pictures and are readying our defense.
and stuff like that.
Nowadays all I see is your a terrorist nation, Im invading you! You have a bad name, Im invading you! And when a valid reason is brought upon, you say NO! It never happened! OMFG why are you RPing me!
You should SOMETIMES (with agreement between 2 nations) should admit to things you thought you never did. It shows good RP skills and will turn out to be fun! Whenever a valid reason is brought, the defensive party always denies.
What ever happened to the goodness of RP? I only see a few nowadays and they are too developed for me to join.
GETTING!?
It shut down after WW5 (mid May)
I voted NO because its already gotten bad. Its not getting bad, its down in the dirty pits of hell. Its people like you, me, pantera, melkor, AMF, and a few others that keep the spirit alive, kid.
I used to think it was getting bad until I saw the Realm of the Risen (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=103594). Go ahead and look at it. It is a sign that RP is getting good again! 8)
[EDIT: My goal is to start amazing RPs, like the Christmas Party (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=102753), and to join already good ones. I think that if every veteran nation sets the same goal, then RP will be back in NS!]
Jaxusism
16-12-2003, 02:26
Not only is it bad but no one ever wants it anymore. They say "Oh Im so good and bigger and I have super-advance tech so I destroy your ship!!!"
You voted no? Oh well...
Lets pretend there is a -1 to "no". Im an October, so its been bad and gotten worse.
Some others help keep it alive too, as you mentioned, me, you, pantera, melkor, AMF, Arribastan, Exetonia, Credonia, and people like them who keep the spirit alive.
People like Chellis (No Offense, but they dont want to do ANYTHING), The Fedral Union, North Egypt, South Egypt, and a lot more who make it crap.
OOC:
Nanakaland, I've always seen you as a good RPer, and I admire you for that. Thanks.
Jaxusism
16-12-2003, 02:31
Nanakaland is also a good RPer, I agree.
Not only is it bad but no one ever wants it anymore. They say "Oh Im so good and bigger and I have super-advance tech so I destroy your ship!!!"
You voted no? Oh well...
Lets pretend there is a -1 to "no". Im an October, so its been bad and gotten worse.
Some others help keep it alive too, as you mentioned, me, you, pantera, melkor, AMF, Arribastan, Exetonia, Credonia, and people like them who keep the spirit alive.
People like Chellis (No Offense, but they dont want to do ANYTHING), The Fedral Union, North Egypt, South Egypt, and a lot more who make it crap.
OOC:
Wow, to notice such a decrease since the time you've been here is amazing, also depressing.
Nanakaland is also a good RPer, I agree.
He's been here since March16th (he was revived). I liked some of his older stuff.
OOC:
Nanakaland, I've always seen you as a good RPer, and I admire you for that. Thanks.
Tip: Make sure spelling is good. Also proofread before posting. Another tip is to organize it into paragraphs.
Jaxusism
16-12-2003, 02:33
Not only is it bad but no one ever wants it anymore. They say "Oh Im so good and bigger and I have super-advance tech so I destroy your ship!!!"
You voted no? Oh well...
Lets pretend there is a -1 to "no". Im an October, so its been bad and gotten worse.
Some others help keep it alive too, as you mentioned, me, you, pantera, melkor, AMF, Arribastan, Exetonia, Credonia, and people like them who keep the spirit alive.
People like Chellis (No Offense, but they dont want to do ANYTHING), The Fedral Union, North Egypt, South Egypt, and a lot more who make it crap.
OOC:
Wow, to notice such a decrease since the time you've been here is amazing, also depressing.
I cant tell if thats sarcasm or not...
Arribastan
16-12-2003, 02:34
OOC: i do miss the days of good RP. i think the best RP i ever saw was an RP between Pure Evil and Hot Apples. a good, small, 1-on-1 rp. i would love to dig that up and submit it to the Archive. the best example i've ever seen. it probably got deleted in a forum purge, though.
*sigh* those were the days...
Arribastan
16-12-2003, 02:34
Not only is it bad but no one ever wants it anymore. They say "Oh Im so good and bigger and I have super-advance tech so I destroy your ship!!!"
You voted no? Oh well...
Lets pretend there is a -1 to "no". Im an October, so its been bad and gotten worse.
Some others help keep it alive too, as you mentioned, me, you, pantera, melkor, AMF, Arribastan, Exetonia, Credonia, and people like them who keep the spirit alive.
People like Chellis (No Offense, but they dont want to do ANYTHING), The Fedral Union, North Egypt, South Egypt, and a lot more who make it crap.
OOC:
Wow, to notice such a decrease since the time you've been here is amazing, also depressing.it started to get really bad around the time when Jono Land (he's better now) and co. arrived.
Pantera's been gone for a while now, he should get back before his nation gets deleted. Or, at least, he hasn't been showing up at the medieval RP he was in and someone has been forced to take over the Mongol Horde for him.
Not only is it bad but no one ever wants it anymore. They say "Oh Im so good and bigger and I have super-advance tech so I destroy your ship!!!"
You voted no? Oh well...
Lets pretend there is a -1 to "no". Im an October, so its been bad and gotten worse.
Some others help keep it alive too, as you mentioned, me, you, pantera, melkor, AMF, Arribastan, Exetonia, Credonia, and people like them who keep the spirit alive.
People like Chellis (No Offense, but they dont want to do ANYTHING), The Fedral Union, North Egypt, South Egypt, and a lot more who make it crap.
OOC:
Wow, to notice such a decrease since the time you've been here is amazing, also depressing.it started to get really bad around the time when Jono Land (he's better now) and co. arrived.
[OOC: It was declining in April (when I became an okay RPer), hit rock-bottom in May (when it was full of godmoding, the thing that got mods involved in the forums), went up a bit in June, and then declined very gradually ever since. Now its almost as bad as May again, but there are mods that delete the really horrible posts.]
Jaxusism
16-12-2003, 02:38
Pantera's been gone for a while now, he should get back before his nation gets deleted. Or, at least, he hasn't been showing up at the medieval RP he was in and someone has been forced to take over the Mongol Horde for him.
Im guessing your a puppet?
Dont get me started on NS puppets!
I voted no because I have yet to be in a bad RP. Currently I'm leading a very riveting and explosive national rebellion storyline. With as many forces my country has, the government was almost completely obliterated, and now with a turn of the tides, the rebellion is beginning to lose. I even through in cookies for future possible RPs that revealed my government does have nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons programs that in the past it's been trying to cover up.
Before this storyline, I had a massive war with Gurian that involved spy satellites and a suicide bombing that was a desperate attempt by Scythirus to destroy all connection of the satellites with them.
So... you're just not looking in the right places. I've even thrown banquets for whenever an alliance was made.
I cant tell if thats sarcasm or not...
I was pointing out that the RP basically sucks. No sarcasm intended, pure, straight, opinion.
Jaxusism
16-12-2003, 02:42
Pantera's been gone for a while now, he should get back before his nation gets deleted. Or, at least, he hasn't been showing up at the medieval RP he was in and someone has been forced to take over the Mongol Horde for him.
Im guessing your a puppet?
Dont get me started on NS puppets!
Did I mention the recent craze in "unidentified nations who gave me nuclear bombs"? How far can these low-lives go?
And Scythirus, Im not old enough to be involved in any RP storylines (havent been any)... If I were, I'd probably be in yours. Storyline RPs are by far my favorite.
Jaxusism
16-12-2003, 02:42
Pantera's been gone for a while now, he should get back before his nation gets deleted. Or, at least, he hasn't been showing up at the medieval RP he was in and someone has been forced to take over the Mongol Horde for him.
Im guessing your a puppet?
Dont get me started on NS puppets!
Did I mention the recent craze in "unidentified nations who gave me nuclear bombs"? How far can these low-lives go?
And Scythirus, Im not old enough to be involved in any RP storylines (havent been any)... If I were, I'd probably be in yours. Storyline RPs are by far my favorite.
Yes, I'm a test puppet that didn't work out too well...but my original nation is pretty new too. :)
Yes, I'm a test puppet that didn't work out too well...but my original nation is pretty new too. :)
Yes, I'm a test puppet that didn't work out too well...but my original nation is pretty new too. :)
Arribastan
16-12-2003, 02:47
Pantera's been gone for a while now, he should get back before his nation gets deleted. Or, at least, he hasn't been showing up at the medieval RP he was in and someone has been forced to take over the Mongol Horde for him.
Im guessing your a puppet?
Dont get me started on NS puppets!
Did I mention the recent craze in "unidentified nations who gave me nuclear bombs"? How far can these low-lives go?
And Scythirus, Im not old enough to be involved in any RP storylines (havent been any)... If I were, I'd probably be in yours. Storyline RPs are by far my favorite.the Nukes thing is starting to piss me off. i'm about to start an anti-n00b suborbital nuke program. every time a n00b says they have nukes, i'll give them a few. :twisted: by ICBM.
Jono land didn't start anything. He was a bad RPer, that was not a problem, it was everyone picking that caused him to go crazy (i would to). The same thing happened with Arcel.
Blah, its tough to explain the old days to you guys.
Its hard to know that as much as I try, I can't even leave a dent on the RP world because everyone is Uber. No one is poverty stricken, begging for water. Everyone has infinate money and a huge military... Its not like that in real life, your nation doesn't make everything you need, there is a lot of trading and selling going on. Everyone seems to have perfect landscapes... *stops while he can*
I'm not going to get started..
If anyone wants to talk on this subject, you can catch me on IRC usually. I'm on Espernet on channels #nationstates and/or #brandonsroom (which is usually for just me and my GF, but I can make an exeption. :wink: )
Arribastan
16-12-2003, 02:51
i usually just do AIM. no IRC
Jaxusism
16-12-2003, 02:52
TROUSRs, do you have AIM (http://www.aim.com)?
And please, START yourself. I wanna hear you spill your life and soul. Thats the reason I made this topic. To discuss the ongoing stupidity in NS.
Pantera's been gone for a while now, he should get back before his nation gets deleted. Or, at least, he hasn't been showing up at the medieval RP he was in and someone has been forced to take over the Mongol Horde for him.
Im guessing your a puppet?
Dont get me started on NS puppets!
Did I mention the recent craze in "unidentified nations who gave me nuclear bombs"? How far can these low-lives go?
And Scythirus, Im not old enough to be involved in any RP storylines (havent been any)... If I were, I'd probably be in yours. Storyline RPs are by far my favorite.the Nukes thing is starting to piss me off. i'm about to start an anti-n00b suborbital nuke program. every time a n00b says they have nukes, i'll give them a few. :twisted: by ICBM.
OOC: No offense or flame intended, but you're real jerk.
1) A new nation is a Newbie, not a n00b. A n00b is a complete and total dipshit that can't get a clue and messes up everything (much like yourself).
2)New nations can have nuclear weapons, what do you not understand about that? If us "big nations" can have big uber militaries, new nations can have nuclear weapons.
3)You're not funny. "n00b" hating is frowned upon by me and many others. If you think you are gaining yourself a nice reputation, you're wrong. Take a hint.
4)Your play in the Jono Land incident was all OOC, and it really got to me. I do not like you, let me make that clear.
Goobergunchia
16-12-2003, 02:54
Its hard to know that as much as I try, I can't even leave a dent on the RP world because everyone is Uber. No one is poverty stricken, begging for water. Everyone has infinate money and a huge military... Its not like that in real life, your nation doesn't make everything you need, there is a lot of trading and selling going on. Everyone seems to have perfect landscapes... *stops while he can*
Hopefully NS2 will remedy this situation. I confine most IC talk to the UN forum (which is horrendously n00bish), as most of the great RPs were before my time.
Personally, I don't recognize space tech and say that I have 20 nukes due to strict arms control laws.
Another pet peeve of mine is that most of the good RPs are closed. I can understand why, but wouldn't it be possible to say "Open, But Bad RP Will Be Ignored"?
EDIT: Well, Goobergunchian Inauguration Day will be on Friday afternoon, and Lord Goobergunch will be sworn in in front of Council Hall on Grassy Knoll Plaza, for the 12th time. I promise Open RP.
This has been an OOC post.
TROUSRs, do you have AIM (http://www.aim.com)?
And please, START yourself. I wanna hear you spill your life and soul. Thats the reason I made this topic. To discuss the ongoing stupidity in NS.
Yes, I do. But I have a virus on my profile right now that I'm working out, so never click any links in it.
My info:
Email: Blinkingcarousel@yahoo.com
MSN Messenger: trousrs@hotmail.com
AIM: Stockh0lmSyndr0m
IRC: EsperNet Network, irc.esper,net server, #nationstates or #brandonsroom channel
Cell Phone.. wait.. nevermind on this one.
Har Land
16-12-2003, 02:58
I'm planning on experimenting with nuclear devices in the near future. I think I've conducted myself well enough to be deserving in the community to get them.
I am a new country, but i catch on easily. It seems that some RP's are written and scripted great, but others are trash. I can't say much, I am only a small nation and have yet to be in a real RP. I am planning on starting soon.
Everyone seems to have perfect landscapes...
I wouldn't consider my landscape perfect. There's a lot of desert, and thanks to my rebellion storyline, there's a lot of blasted buildings in cities that'll take years to rebuild.
Arribastan
16-12-2003, 03:01
Pantera's been gone for a while now, he should get back before his nation gets deleted. Or, at least, he hasn't been showing up at the medieval RP he was in and someone has been forced to take over the Mongol Horde for him.
Im guessing your a puppet?
Dont get me started on NS puppets!
Did I mention the recent craze in "unidentified nations who gave me nuclear bombs"? How far can these low-lives go?
And Scythirus, Im not old enough to be involved in any RP storylines (havent been any)... If I were, I'd probably be in yours. Storyline RPs are by far my favorite.the Nukes thing is starting to piss me off. i'm about to start an anti-n00b suborbital nuke program. every time a n00b says they have nukes, i'll give them a few. :twisted: by ICBM.
OOC: No offense or flame intended, but you're real jerk.
1) A new nation is a Newbie, not a n00b. A n00b is a complete and total dipshit that can't get a clue and messes up everything (much like yourself).
2)New nations can have nuclear weapons, what do you not understand about that? If us "big nations" can have big uber militaries, new nations can have nuclear weapons.
3)You're not funny. "n00b" hating is frowned upon by me and many others. If you think you are gaining yourself a nice reputation, you're wrong. Take a hint.
4)Your play in the Jono Land incident was all OOC, and it really got to me. I do not like you, let me make that clear.
I hope you have a nice day, too. :roll:
Free Pacific States
16-12-2003, 03:02
I can't say much, because for quite awhile I played NS and didn't even use the forum. I even went inactive for awhile. But I think you might be right. There aren't many rps anymore, and most die. The few that I am in that are working are
A) Involving 2-3 People
B) Sequals to Great Threads already ended (Assington Police Two)
C) Pretty much dead, a post every three to five years.
As for poverty stricken nations....your kind of right. The only ones I know of are my puppets...not that it's my fault or anything... :oops: . At any rate, there are still some rpers left, and I'm sure things will shape up. The main problem is newbs who think their all great, and can take on the world. I will never say they can't have nukes, but how do they have enough to destroy the entire universe? We need more IC people, more people who actually give a shit. Of course, I'm overly obsessed, so caring is a bit more for me.
One thing I would like to note:
There are no rules regarding Role Play in this forum. If someone says to you "You can't have 10% of your nation in the military!!!111!11!one!!111", they are lieing to you. You could have 100% if you wanted. But with that, anyone has the right to ignore you.
Thats what I love about role play, anything is possible.
I'd rather idiots who weren't here for the whole ride not to comment on my RP ability... People who didn't see the rise and fall of RP, who didn't witness the demoness conflicts, the Amerigo conflict/'s, etc etc... The ones who didn't see people like AMF Rise and fall, who didn't see a time where people could be a peaceful nation without war... Jaxusism, to comment on my RP simply because I don't join your rp's when you ask me to through AIM, makes you ignorant and biased. Please, leave my name out of your little hitlists of bad RP'ers, you obviously havn't met the bad rp'ers.
Arribastan
16-12-2003, 03:04
I'm planning on experimenting with nuclear devices in the near future. I think I've conducted myself well enough to be deserving in the community to get them.
i'd say you're deserving of it. you have a good record, as far as i'm concerned. But don't take my word for it, my good buddy TROUSERS (yes, that was intentional), might say otherwise.
I'd rather idiots who weren't here for the whole ride not to comment on my RP ability... People who didn't see the rise and fall of RP, who didn't witness the demoness conflicts, the Amerigo conflict/'s, etc etc... The ones who didn't see people like AMF Rise and fall, who didn't see a time where people could be a peaceful nation without war... Jaxusism, to comment on my RP simply because I don't join your rp's when you ask me to through AIM, makes you ignorant and biased. Please, leave my name out of your little hitlists of bad RP'ers, you obviously havn't met the bad rp'ers.
Everyone seems to have perfect landscapes...
I wouldn't consider my landscape perfect. There's a lot of desert, and thanks to my rebellion storyline, there's a lot of blasted buildings in cities that'll take years to rebuild.
You rock. You allow yourself to have your nation destroyed just to RP it back up again. Thats great. Most people are afraid their "nation" (which is all fake anyway) will get destroyed. They fail to realize that you can be a good rper and lose a war.
Jaxusism
16-12-2003, 03:06
I'd rather idiots who weren't here for the whole ride not to comment on my RP ability... People who didn't see the rise and fall of RP, who didn't witness the demoness conflicts, the Amerigo conflict/'s, etc etc... The ones who didn't see people like AMF Rise and fall, who didn't see a time where people could be a peaceful nation without war... Jaxusism, to comment on my RP simply because I don't join your rp's when you ask me to through AIM, makes you ignorant and biased. Please, leave my name out of your little hitlists of bad RP'ers, you obviously havn't met the bad rp'ers.
And now he's saying he'll get this thread closed if I dont apologize. Should I apologize?
I'm planning on experimenting with nuclear devices in the near future. I think I've conducted myself well enough to be deserving in the community to get them.
i'd say you're deserving of it. you have a good record, as far as i'm concerned. But don't take my word for it, my good buddy TROUSERS (yes, that was intentional), might say otherwise.
:?
The sadest part about you, Arribastan, is that when I present to you fact and strong opinion, all you can do its try and intimidate me (which, may you note, you will not succeed at) and misspell my name..
I'd rather idiots who weren't here for the whole ride not to comment on my RP ability... People who didn't see the rise and fall of RP, who didn't witness the demoness conflicts, the Amerigo conflict/'s, etc etc... The ones who didn't see people like AMF Rise and fall, who didn't see a time where people could be a peaceful nation without war... Jaxusism, to comment on my RP simply because I don't join your rp's when you ask me to through AIM, makes you ignorant and biased. Please, leave my name out of your little hitlists of bad RP'ers, you obviously havn't met the bad rp'ers.
And now he's saying he'll get this thread closed if I dont apologize. Should I apologize?
There is no reason for this thread to be closed. Apologize to be safe, because I do see his point. I saw AMF rise, I saw him fall, I fell for chellis becuase I partially know what he's going through.
Jaxusism
16-12-2003, 17:19
YAY! UNLOCKED AND FREE! GO STEPHISTAN! YAY!!!!!!!!!!
As we were saying...
Today, I've seen 2 December 13th Nations declare they have nuclear power... :roll:
So? They can if they want to, and you have the right to ignore them if you want to. FREE FORM.
: )
Jaxusism
17-12-2003, 01:17
Jaxusism
17-12-2003, 01:17
BTW, I recommend ALL n00bs and vets and all NS nations take ALL the courses at The Role Playing University (http://rpu.board.dk3.com/2/index.php)! Ive started and it really teaches you how to RP correctly. If not take the courses just look over the lessons, especially Basic RP 101 ; Lesson 1.
Jaxusism
17-12-2003, 01:27
BTW, I recommend ALL n00bs and vets and all NS nations take ALL the courses at The Role Playing University (http://rpu.board.dk3.com/2/index.php)! Ive started and it really teaches you how to RP correctly. If not take the courses just look over the lessons, especially Basic RP 101 ; Lesson 1.
Automagfreek
17-12-2003, 05:12
Some others help keep it alive too, as you mentioned, me, you, pantera, melkor, AMF, Arribastan, Exetonia, Credonia, and people like them who keep the spirit alive.
I'm a has-been bro, nothing more than a has-been.
Steel Butterfly
17-12-2003, 05:18
I used to think it was getting bad until I saw the Realm of the Risen (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=103594). Go ahead and look at it. It is a sign that RP is getting good again! 8)
fricken eh, man! 8)
My RP's have been kicking ass as of late...three in a row of excellence with TRotR being the latest. Also, things between Menel and Ma-tek are heating up, and I recently got a trade agreement with Angelus. Point being...it all depends on who you RP with.
Warheit Saga (For if you feel like reading)
Chapter 1: "A man is a god in ruins..." (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1930286#1930286)
Chapter 2: The NS Award-Winning "Ardente Veritatis, Urite Mala Mundi." (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=91315)
I like to think that *my* rp has improved.
Of course, unless you're 18, you can't read my more recent works. :wink:
imported_AmandaTheGreat
17-12-2003, 06:13
May I suggest that if you do not like the recent RPing going on maybe you should start one.
Glorious Humanity
17-12-2003, 06:21
My post count on NS is pretty low, but I've been RPing on other boards for about four years, and writing stories for longer than that. I've noticed something: the best RPs are written by people who are good writers in general. Getting a good RP has less to do with making sure you obey all the rules than it does with making a good story.
Number-crunching is a not a story.
Ignore cannons are not a story.
"YOU GODMODDING N00B!" is not a story.
See where this is going? A good RP is a good story, therefore one should never forget things like character interaction, character development, and good descriptions of areas where the RP is taking place. God is in the details.
Of course, unless you're 18, you can't read my more recent works. :wink:
The best stories are usually R-rated. :lol:
imported_AmandaTheGreat
17-12-2003, 06:26
I agree with you. Yet, I know I am not a writer. I am just practicing. They always saw practice makes perfect, well, it helps here. Besides the best stories are character development and the insight on them, not godmodding, which can be interesting, or even I can blow up your nation.
I dunno, GH. You read my recent works? Quickly! Go find them! One of them is on this page right now.
I *am* a writer, of both original and fan fiction. It's my number one hobby, mainly because it's quiet and gives me a chance to think.
((Anyone who irks me while I'm writing feels the effects of my #2 hobby, body building))
Steel Butterfly
17-12-2003, 06:44
I used to write fantasy stories when I was much younger that paved the way for my RPing of today.
"Dragon Tearz" I think they were called...and were influenced much by Final Fantasy and Breath of Fire 3. How I wrote them isn't really good as I look back on them...but the plot and the characters...still excellent.
I was in a major Star Trek RP back when www.st-intelligence.com had its boards run by Defiant and not CTerry. I was known as "Dragon" if you want to check it out. Most of my comrads have left as well...and they don't even RP anymore. Anyhow...I went all out sci-fi there and made people mad at me for "always taking over the story" because I made things happen and pushed the plot along. Fortunately, there were few people who felt that way and they soon left.
I must say though that my first RP was on the same boards...many years ago...when the "game" was you had a certain amount of ST ships, each with a specific amount of shields, and you fought other Admirals. It was excellent...so basic...and I miss it.
Writing is a past-time of mine. I mainly do poems, and I've won poetry awards as well as song writing ones. However, I like characters, and therefore I like stories.
(NOTE: No I'm not a "poetry nerd" or "fag" or whatever. I'm 6'2" 205 lbs and was a star varsity football player in HS and I could have played more if I hadn't went to Pitt. I wasn't quite good enough to play division I...that and I was a white wide reciever...lol. Writing poetry doesn't mean anything other than...your ability to write and your passion for it.)
imported_AmandaTheGreat
17-12-2003, 07:39
I write poetry, but that can be quite different from stories, unless you deal with free verse or prose. I can see know that a lot of these RPers have been exposed to this for awhile. I am fresh to the scene. This is a release of stress I get from nursing school, especially now the heat is on with finals. I do not have a lot of experience with this and I like to see what others have to offer. Maybe some of the "ancients" should give out advice to the "young" or even we could give some. Knowledge is power and we all have something to gain. I feel we should not criticize, or if we do have it be constructive. We can only get better. Besides we need muses.
Carlemnaria
17-12-2003, 08:30
sorry i wasn't arround in the begining to have some basis of compairison
but to me one gratuitous war sounds about as tedius as another
=^^=
.../\...