NationStates Jolt Archive

This post is for the hearing of a bout between two regional nations.

In light of the recent expulsion of Lindia by Tropical Montana without allowing for sufficient time to discuss the matters at hand as an assembled group, this hearing is now in session to do so.

All Confederation of Libertarian members are free to post. Nothing said here will be held against you.



I would like to start off by saying that I don't want this fight to go on anymore. I would ask that Lindia stop sending nasty messages and apologize and that Tropical Montana forgive and forget and also apologize for allowing this issue to get out of hand.

This isn't an issue of pride, it's an issue of regional security. Any attempt to hinder this procedure in any way will not reflect positively on your nation as a whole.

I'm sure we all want this to end. Let's end it then/

If I am mistaken on any point so far please publicly correct me and I will either take that into acount or else defend myself.

As a neutral body in this fight, I would like to participate in the mediating of the argument. May everyone post their positions on the issues at hand?

The Guarded Land of Twin Palm Trees concurs with our neighbor Svecia, the squabbling must come to an end for all of our sakes. Also, we desire that the matter of fomenting war into our region by Lindia be looked into. We were one of the nations that was named and do not like out neighbors planning behind our backs.

The Guarded Land of Twin Palm Trees

I think it is important to keep the issue of clearifing the delegate selection process seperate from the TM expulsion of Linda event. We already have a thread for that discussion. http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=95539

I think the main events that need reviewing are the TM expulsion without any discussion with other members of the region and the activities of the Queendom of Linda while banned from the region.

Sorry double post...

For the record here's TM's discription of the event:

Last Friday, as the UN session was coming to a close, a heated discussion broke out between Jorgo Wenslai and the delegate from Lindia. The Lindia delegate began shouting an abusive tirade, and Wenslai punched him in the mouth to shut him up, putting the Lindia delegate in the hospital for a few hours. While the doctors said there may be some brain damage, they also said they could not be sure this was not a pre-existing condition. Wenslai immediately resigned his post and was sentenced to ten years of community service. Tropical Montana has offered to be withdrawn from the UN delegation rotation until an investigation into wrongdoing can be completed.

Over the weekend TM implored the other UN nations to revoke Wenslai's passport, as he was threatening to retaliate against Svecia and Middleton when Svecia indicated there would be a tribunal presided over by the "oldest and largest" nations, which he knew to be Lindia's allies.

Although Wenslai's passport was revoked by many nations, soon enough to save Svecia, Lindia, and Middleton, he has fled TM and we do not know his whereabouts. There have been "Jorgo sightings" near Sailaway, who has offered him assylum.

New intelligence has revealed that while the Lindia delegate was in the hospital, the Queendom of Lindia was conspiring to commit treason on the region by recruiting a vicious gang to come to the region and assassinate the leaders from TM, Spartanland and Twin Palms.

What remains to be seen is how the other C of L members will view this purported treason. TM will abstain from any debate on the topic based on their desire to distance themselves from the diaper-slinging sure to come from the Lindia faction.

For the record here's Linda's posting while banned from the region:

2 days ago The Queendom of Lindia Alright, I have no idea what is going on in this region now, but last time my brother nation was here, Gay Pancakes (if you remember that stuff), I was told you guys were vicious. Please be vicious now. I would really appreciate it if you guys could help me get back into my region, the confederation of libertarians. In a minute, I'll make a list of people I need you to help me overthrow
2 days ago The Queendom of Lindia These are the people you need to declare war on for me, for I have very little weapons... (in order of how harsh you have to be, from most to least):
1. Protectorate of Tropical Montana
2. The Empire of Spartan Land
3. The Guarded Land of Twin Palm Trees (not that harsh, just sorta threaten unless they vote to take me back).
2 days ago The Queendom of Lindia And these are the countries I need you to help me persuade to bring me back:
Middleton
Psylos
Elleuse
Balligomingo
Sailaway
Phallusstine
Holy Roman Empire II
Eauz
Her Sexyness


In return for your help, I promise I will do something for you. I'll even make my brother come back and be nice, just so that you have more countries in your region.
1 day ago The Empire of Black Forest Elves I have a question, why not just ignore those people? why not just stay here? We have had enough of this fighting. And we are most certainly not vicous, although very territorial and protective. Why not join and stay with our group, I say those idiots can just go to hell and rott there, because that is the only thing we can really claim against them.

Elessar Telrunye
of the
Black Forest Elves

Thank you for coming here today to hear my words. Thank you, Udlandover for mediating, as your fairness is widely proclaimed.

I would like to start by saying that it was completely inappropriate for the Tropical Montana Delegate to have abused the powers it was entrusted with. A call for the ousting of Lindia should have gone out first to the other members of the region and their decision abided by. The Delegate was out of line by acting unilaterally in his decision and his actions.

This having been said, TM would like to throw themselves on the mercy of the court, with the hopes that the mitigating circumstances of Lindia's provokation will help them accept our plea for leniency. In the words of Jorgo Wenslai, "I punched John Yoo, I'll take my lumps, but it wasn't Tropical Montana's fault, it was Lindia's" Lindia has already stated that the said John Yoo was an alternate and had been removed for incompetence after the incident. Lindia has equal culpability in the escalation of hostilities by allowing this representative to be in the UN halls. Mr. Wenslai has a long and decorated career in diplomacy and it is quite out of character for him to be pushed to that point.

We move that, according to the Constitution of the region, that the "serious consequences" in this matter (hereafter referred to as "sanctions") be the removal of Tropical Montana from the delegate rotation for a period of three months, in the case of a rotation staying in place, and for one month should the delegate status become an elected position. Defence would also like to stipulate that Lindia receive the same sanctions for her part in the fiasco.

If you accept this guilty plea and its stipulated sanctions, in the matter of the Confederation of Libertarians vs. Tropical Montana, the decision will be binding and the case will be closed.

We thank you for your time and consideration of this most serious matter.

Counsel for Tropical Montana

Now for my two cents:

I feel TM's ejection of Linda was uncalled for. I feel there should be some penalty for missusing the UN delgate powers. But factored in should be the facts that TM allowed Linda back in the same day and actively sought to have the delgate seat moved to another nation.

In addition as I've said before: It is safe to assume that any nation receiving the full focus of the Queendom of Lindia's "insight" would view it more as "incite"

As for the Queendom of Linda I have also said: One of the core strength's of a democratic region is diversity. The Queendom of Lindia has as much right to be here as anyone. Saying "The Confederation, love it or leave it!" whenever an opposing view is offered or your own view is not immediately accepted is a disservice to the region while highlighting one's lack of understanding of democratic principals.

However, it can not be ignored that Linda just missed bringing possible ruin to the region (thankfully the Black Forest Elves' did not to accommodate her request). I think Linda is a very colorful nation and would like to see her stay. But her abusive over-reactions are not acceptable behavor.

The Guarded Land of Twin Palm Trees approve of the sanctions that Tropical Montana has suggested for Tropical Montana. the action of kicking out Lindia without region concensus is intolerable. However Lindia has committed a crime much worse than that of TM: regional treason of which our nation was specifically targeted. We will not allow such a threat as htis go unregarded. We feel that a stronger position must be taken in regards to this, though what they may be remain unclear.

The Guarded Land of Twin Palm Trees

The Guarded Land of Twin Palm Trees approve of the sanctions that Tropical Montana has suggested for Tropical Montana. the action of kicking out Lindia without region concensus is intolerable. However Lindia has committed a crime much worse than that of TM: regional treason of which our nation was specifically targeted. We will not allow such a threat as htis go unregarded. We feel that a stronger position must be taken in regards to this, though what they may be remain unclear.

The Guarded Land of Twin Palm Trees

Let it be said that the above guilty plea pertains only to the charges of Delegate misconduct. The matter of the conspiracy to commit treason charge against Lindia is not a part of this plea or its stipulations. That is a matter that must be considered separately, and we do not believe that TM is indictable on this charge.

Tropical Montana has also asked to be recused from participating in that hearing by reason of conflict of interest.

What this region needs are some rules of order.

In an open message board the only tools we have to deal with a member's excesses are: ignore, peer pressure, flame or ejection. Other than the ignore all these methods can get out of control very easy.

I'm not very knowledgeable about rules of order. Do any of the other members have any examples we could borrow from??

The position of the Republic of Elleuse is to accept the imposition of the self punishment outlined by Tropical Montana. It seems a befitting penalty for the crimes of premature expulsion of another nation and the abuse of an appointment empowered to a nation by this great region. The crimes of assault and battery and terrorist-like threats against representative Jorgo Wenslai would be better seen on a civil level. We would also, as said by others, appreciate the courts consideration of the insinuating circumstances, i.e. provocation, speedy readmission, self removal from the position, etc.
We would also like to request that the court hear another case. One of High treason. One of conspiracy to commit crimes against humanity in the name of "Blowing off steam". One, that left unheard, gives any nation powers of annihilation when rubbed the wrong way. We believe in Lindia's right to speak their position without recourse, albeit without the provocation of mudslinging and namecalling. But to go to such lengths, even when unjustly expelled, should NOT, canNOT go unnoticed.
-Peace to All

#tag

I agree with Elleuse. However, we must be specific if anything is to be resolved. That is why I posted this in the Regional Message board:

As for the Queendom of Linda - I can tolerate the occasional rant but I won't deal with psycho behavior. I think she should be banned from the region. We could try a temporary ban (say 30 days). I'm not sure that would work but I'm willing to try. If Linda does not return with a less abusive attitude then make the ban permanent.

Perhaps a better, and safer punishment would be for Lindia to disband all but their most essential military units. while Lindia is in this region she will enjoy the protection of the region's armed forces while similiarly her neighbors will have no fear of invasion from her. Also, it might be best if Lindia is forced to reveal all communication she will have outside the region.

The Guarded Land of Twin Palm Trees

"safer punishment" I am not sure what you mean?

"disband all but their most essential military units" I don't see how this addresses the issue.

"forced to reveal all communication she will have outside the region" This is not enforceable nor is Linda's communications any of our business.

I fully agree with you. I feel a short time away from the region may help her. If she becomes a troublesome Nation again a full ban should be placed apon her with someone keeping an eye on her to make sure she does not plan any attacks on us. But I am not sure if there will be a nother hearing for the attempted act of TREASON or if you are lumping it all into one hearing.

I would feel this way even if she did not try to set plans to Strong Arm my great nation. In Sailaway that would get you into serious trouble.

As for TM I agree with what TM said there punishment should be. I feel that it is fitting of what happened.


Also the punishment that was talked about for TM should be placed apon Lindia, and Lindia should also get a secondary punishment for the act of treason. Banning her from the region for a short time. If she comes back and does okay for a short time on probation. After that probationary time she could then get the same punishment as TM...

With the fiasco at hand I would like to recommend a new course of action; A Confederation of Libertarians supreme court, to mediate this dispute and other such disputes. Now there are several modes of action: Electing supreme court justices? Elect a panel to appoint justices? We need to have a body that can remain completly neutral in this and further disputes to help mediate and create stability in the region! Anyone interested? Post here or in the message board.

I think setting up a system to take care of disputes and issues of wrongdoing is an excellent idea. The recent events have made it clear we need a fair way to solve problems.

First, I want to say that in the case of Confederation vs. TM and Lindia misconduct charge and Confederation vs. Lindia conspiracy to commit treason charges, should be decided by the region as a whole. It's too late in the day to saddle a new horse for these. One nation, one vote, with accused parties not voting.

The first vote would be whether to accept TM's guilty plea and its stipulations. Possible votes are ACCEPT, REJECT, or ABSTAIN (a nation's failure to vote will be considered abstaining). I suggest either a two or three-day voting period. If rejected by the majority of voting nations, then a new sentencing phase will begin, with TM being allowed to bring the case to trial. TM further agrees that in such a trial, Udlandover will be the sole judge, who may make its decision by consensus or otherwise as deemed fitting. If accepted, stipulations will begin immediately.

In the case of Confederation vs. Lindia, there would be a separate vote. Possible votes being GUILTY, NOT GUILTY, or ABSTAIN. If found guilty, then Udlandover may come up with a choice of two punishments it deems fitting, to be voted on by the membership. Votes in that case would be Sanction 1, Sanction 2 or Abstain.

For future hearings, however, I believe that a panel of three to five elected judges would be sufficient to determine guilt and consequences. I have some ideas about how to choose judges, and once this current hearing is finished, we should proceed with a Judiciary amendment.

I would not mind sitting in a supreme court seat.

Keel Hall of Sailaway

As some of you older nations may recall, there was a dispute between Udlandover and Gay Pancakes a few months ago over Udlandover using GP’s motto incorrectly. GP felt that this was an attack on their nation’s sovereignty and pride.

Although this is not the same situtation, I believe that the end result can be the same: both nations allowed to continue residing. Understandably, the three nations directly threatened have a right to be wary of Lindia. I have read the posts and they do indeed seem to be treasonous. Nothing of the magnitude of conflict between Lindia and Tropical Montana has the makings of a war. I in no way approve of what Lindia has done while she was banished. But perhaps this would not have happened if tempers were not so short.

No one has seemed to recall what first started all of this, however. From what I remember being publicly displayed ( I do not know what went on before this) Lindia posted on the main forum a message regarding a University of Michigan victory. Tropical Montana responded by giving public advice (in a nice way I thought) to Lindia about how everything in this game should be roleplayed. Lindia responded with a tirade about “making the region more fun.” Well, I think both nations should be commended for “making the region more fun.” I never would have thought when I started this region that it would grow so quickly or that the joining nations would participate so well.

I agree that the constitution is rather vague in regards to nations causing trouble.
But after reviewing all the arguments presented, Svecia recommends these 6 points:
1. That both nations be allowed to remain in the region, but be put on probationary status for a certain period of time;
2. That both nations be disallowed from holding the delegate position for a period of time;
3. That formal apologies be publicly posted by both nations;
4. That any more posts by Lindia threatening war result in an ejection;
5. That bullying acts in general (such as for voting) be outlawed and any infractions be heard before a regional court to later be established;
6. That factions be banned from the region.


(I would like to point out very quickly in my defense, that when I refer to “older and larger nations” I mean the ones that first joined the region. The main UN member nations were:
Svecia
Lindia
Udlandover
Middleton
Psylos
Tropical Montana
and the late Ardnaxela.)

I also agree that a small panel of judges in handle regional disputes is a good idea. However, I think even before that we need to finally define how the UN delegate is choosen.

But first we have the matter at hand. I must say that I am stunned at the inability of this group to make a decision! TM clearly overstepped the bounds of the position (and thankfully quickly returned to reason). Mean while the Queendom of Linda was caught red handed promoting war on the region.

What would it take to get this region to actually act? Does Linda have to call each and everyone one of you out personally before you feel a need to DO something? Are you going to wait until you find yourself in the Rejected Realms and then try and do something? Guess what -- that is most likely where we would all be if Generation Organy took Linda up on her request!

The Republic of Elleuse is in full support of a Judiciary Committee, noting that however many Judges are elected, there has to be sufficient back up in the case of one or more of the presiding judges being in the place of claimant(plaintiff) or defendant themselves. For instance, if TM and Lindia had been sitting on that bench at this time, two thirds of a 3 judge panel would be unable to preside. We are willing to help in any way that we can.
-Peace to All

In my proposals I list a way to avoid Elleuse's worries.

AMENDMENT PROPOSALS




EJECTIONS
1. Nations are to be ejected immediately under the following circumstances Gross Misconduct, including:
I. Attempted treason against member nations
II. Direct military threats to member nations
III. A coup attempt for control of the region or delegate position
2. Ejections for other reasons are not to be permanent.
3. The regional court will determine the reasons for and length of ejection.
4. In the case of immediate ejections, the court will convene immediately and determine the ejected nation’s case, and how soon to allow the nation back into the region.
I. Nations ejected according with Clause 1 shall be readmitted when the court decides they no longer pose an imminent threat to the region’s members.
5. The court may be circumvented if 3/4 of voting nations vote to eject a nation. In this case, 60% of the nations in the Confederation must vote. If fewer that 60%(round fractions to next highest nation) of all nations submit a vote, then the case for ejection must go to the court.
6. A nation that is ejected under Clause 1, may plead their case to the regional court but must do so while outside the Confederation. The regional court will then hear the case on the main forum.

RIGHTS AND DUTIES OF UN DELEGATE
1. Once in the position of UN delegate, the nation must strictly adhere to this constitution.
2. No major actions are to be taken without consent of the region and all major actions to be taken must be publicly announced.
3. A delegate may at any time during their tenure, abdicate their position. In such cases, under a rotational system, the next nation in line will then serve out whatever time the previous delegate had left, plus the two weeks allocated for all UN member nations.


THE REGIONAL COURT
1. A regional court is to be established.
2. All decisions by the court are to be respected by all members of the region. Any actions the court takes against nations are to be followed fully under threat of expulsion.
3. Nations that will make up the court must be UN member nations, with the judging nations or procedure to chose judging nations to be determined at a later date.
4. Nations currently holding the UN delegate position shall not be allowed to sit on the court for the duration of their occupancy of the delegate position.
5. Nations taking part in a court hearing as prosecution or defense, which are also occupying a seat on the court shall not partake in their hearing as a judge. For their replacement the current UN delegate shall sit in on the hearing. In the event that BOTH prosecution and defense retain a seat on the court, the previous UN delegate shall also sit in. In the event that the previous UN delegate is also taking part in the hearing, the next previous delegate shall receive the seat.
6. The court shall have authority to make punishments whenever deemed necessary.
7. Once a decision is made on a case, all nations of the region must be told of the result. There are to be no secret cases.
8. A nation who feels it was unfairly treated by the regional court may take their case to the Nationstates supreme court, where the regional ruling may be overturned.
9. The court’s decision may be overturned if 3/4 of CL member nations vote to overturn it.
10. Punishments should be in proportion to the crime committed.



RULES OF BEHAVIOR AND RIGHTS FOR MEMBER NATIONS
1. Member’s shall conduct their day to day interaction in a way that reflects positively on their nation and the Confederation as a whole.
2. Member nations must follow the articles listed in this constitution and respect and follow the decisions made by the regional court.
3. Members may not form sub-groups within the region.
4. Members should honor posts made by other members and
5. Members have the responsibility to change their endorsements of delegates under the rotational UN delegate system.
6. Members have the right to freedom of speech on the main message board, in regional main forum posts, and in private telegrams, so long as the message does not incite revolution, create factions, or ridicule or deride other members.
7. Former member nations have the right to a regional hearing in cases of immediate expulsion.
8. UN members (excluding the current delegate) shall have the right to vote as they wish on UN resolutions.
9. All member nations (including non-UN members) have the right to participate and vote in regional political, economic, and social matters.
10. All nations’ government are to be allowed to choose their nation’s ideology as long as their choices do not threaten the safety and security of any other member nation.

I think my word is going to be a little bit late...but ooh well too bad for me. I don't see how exactly I am involved in all of this. Lindia simmply stated something on the UN topic,or something like that. I had something to say in response, so I said it. I didn't mean it in any way but to clarify my standings on the subject. I have no idea as to why Lindia chose to take the matter in a completely different direction than what , I thought, was the original coarse. And then all of a sudden I get a telegram from TM saying that Lindia is talking to other nation to start war with TM, myself, and then ("not so much") Twin Palm Trees. I wanna know what the heck that was about. I have no way of getting on here in the middle of the day due to other more important obligations, not including the weekends. So...I can't get whats going on from the time I leave at night to the time I get back the next day. All I have as an option is to tell somebody that I'm lost and hope that they fill me in.....so. Ummmmm I think I got off coarse with the actual matter at hand. But then that's just my fault, my brain has taken a temporary vaca. from my head. Ok I will go now. And hope that somebody fills me in later.

I think my word is going to be a little bit late...but ooh well too bad for me. I don't see how exactly I am involved in all of this. Lindia simmply stated something on the UN topic,or something like that. I had something to say in response, so I said it. I didn't mean it in any way but to clarify my standings on the subject. I have no idea as to why Lindia chose to take the matter in a completely different direction than what , I thought, was the original coarse. And then all of a sudden I get a telegram from TM saying that Lindia is talking to other nation to start war with TM, myself, and then ("not so much") Twin Palm Trees. I wanna know what the heck that was about. I have no way of getting on here in the middle of the day due to other more important obligations, not including the weekends. So...I can't get whats going on from the time I leave at night to the time I get back the next day. All I have as an option is to tell somebody that I'm lost and hope that they fill me in.....so. Ummmmm I think I got off coarse with the actual matter at hand. But then that's just my fault, my brain has taken a temporary vaca. from my head. Ok I will go now. And hope that somebody fills me in later.

"1. Nations are to be ejected immediately under the following circumstances Gross Misconduct, including:
I. Attempted treason against member nations "

If this is true, would Lindia be immediately ejected? And if not, why not?

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"RIGHTS AND DUTIES OF UN DELEGATE
2. No major actions are to be taken without consent of the region and all major actions to be taken must be publicly announced. "

Does this include the vote to be cast in the UN? after all, it IS what the delegate position is all about. I would consider lodging a vote a MAJOR action for a delegate, wouldn't you?


------------------------
"RULES OF BEHAVIOR AND RIGHTS FOR MEMBER NATIONS
3. Members may not form sub-groups within the region. "

Would this include the Peace Coalition?

-------------------
"in regards to nations causing trouble...
5. That bullying acts in general (such as for voting) be outlawed and any infractions be heard before a regional court to later be established; "

What constitutes "bullying"? If one strongly advocates a position and is very vocal about it, is this "bullying"? Would this include name calling and harrassment in personal telegrams? just because Lindia threatens to cry does not make someone a bully.

Frankly the only way a region will be able to have nations like the Queendom of Linda involved is if it is clear that abusive behavior is not tolerated. I don't think that an amendment to be nice cuts it. The majority of the regions have to be willing to be vocal in their opposition to abuse; to have an impact.

I still feel that some action (ban her for a week, a day, an hour) has to be taken in order to get the message across. Then if Linda or anyone else forgets that a certain amount of tact is required to have diplomacy; then all members of the Confederation need to quickly speak up. Otherwise it begins to appear that it is one or two nations against another, which is how you get factions started.

Udlandover has said: "dont necessarly agree that banning Tropical Montana from delegate position for three months and the banning of Lindia from the region for 30 days is the best mode of operations for the region."

Assuming that it is the length of the punishment that you object to, I propose the following:

1) Tropical Montana must skip one turn at being the UN delegate (however it ends up being choosen).

2) The Queendom of Linda is banned from the region for three days.

I propose this limited action with the understanding that the region will focus on building processes to prevent similar events in the future.

To finally get this issue resolved please vote YES or NO...

I feel that despite Linda's departure we need to finish the vote.

1) Tropical Montana is still a member of CL.

2) The region still needs to demonstrate that it is capable of making a decision and following through on it.

3) Linda may change her mind. I feel that Linda is welcome to return (based on what ever the final decision is), as long as, her idea of fun corresponds with the majority's idea of fun.

I'm sure that being on the receiving end of abuse is not fun. Watching abuse is not my idea of fun either (unless it's toward the Dallas Cowboys :D ).

I have recieved an invitation for The Protectorate of Tropical Montana, and from what I have read so far, this seems to ne quite an issue in all of your region. Allow me to be of some assistance.
Like I said before, it seems to be quite the issue, but no where have I seen any proof of the actual issue. What I see so far have been the rules, and some emotional proof ( as in "you have to trust me on this"). There is no quotes on the actual acts, and no evidence of the actual problem. Excuse my boldness, but rather then talking about a solution, you are debating the issue, in constant agreement of eachother, with an inconclusive end.
From what I have heard, if I heard correctly, has been that Lindia had threatened or tried to induce a war. Whether that was after, before, or both during ejection I am not quite sure. But everything must have a reason, so I am sure she had her reason. And there are no posts of her or her point of view.
I say, we should let her speak, hear the evidence, and if fast enough, this could be solved in 3 days at the most, including the insurance of future safety and peace to your region.

Elessar Telrunye
of the
Black Forest Elves

What would you call post #7 - (which are a copy of Linda's actions while in your region) and post #6 which is TM's summary of the events. Ture it would have been nice to have Linda's views on the matter. However, of late her posts tend to only cloud the issue (mostly by design).

There were no rules on this subject before, and the problem was between the 2, thus, Eauz sees need to punish either, though, there should be a legal system made up to protect from future problems.

No Punishment for either!

There were no rules on this subject before, and the problem was between the 2, thus, Eauz sees NO need to punish either, though, there should be a legal system made up to protect from future problems.

No Punishment for either!

Eauz that is fine. However, the Consitution requires that you post your vote in the regional message board to count.

"1. Nations are to be ejected immediately under the following circumstances Gross Misconduct, including:
I. Attempted treason against member nations "

If this is true, would Lindia be immediately ejected? And if not, why not?


ANSWER
Linda would not be immediately ejected because these amendments would be added ex post facto. No nation will have to answer to these amendments until after they are implemented and then only events occuring after the amendments will fall under the jusisdiction.


-----------------------
"RIGHTS AND DUTIES OF UN DELEGATE
2. No major actions are to be taken without consent of the region and all major actions to be taken must be publicly announced. "

Does this include the vote to be cast in the UN? after all, it IS what the delegate position is all about. I would consider lodging a vote a MAJOR action for a delegate, wouldn't you?


ANSWER
Yes this would include the delegate's vote on the UN resolutions.



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"RULES OF BEHAVIOR AND RIGHTS FOR MEMBER NATIONS
3. Members may not form sub-groups within the region. "

Would this include the Peace Coalition?


ANSWER
Good point. Well have to look into this one. But I'd rather not have sub groups.



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"in regards to nations causing trouble...
5. That bullying acts in general (such as for voting) be outlawed and any infractions be heard before a regional court to later be established; "

What constitutes "bullying"? If one strongly advocates a position and is very vocal about it, is this "bullying"? Would this include name calling and harrassment in personal telegrams? just because Lindia threatens to cry does not make someone a bully.



ANSWER
Bullying would include all threats such as "If you don't vote for this topic I'm going to disrupt diplomatic relations." Or something like that. This will probably have to be clarified as well.

The Republic of Elleuse would like to thank the Federation of Svecia for posting what appears to be a very insightful and well thought out set of ammendments to the Constitution of the Confederation of Libertarians. We would, however like to suggest that #3 of "Rules of behavior and right for member nations", be stricken or rewritten as we believe the right to convene or congregate are important, if not done with a conspirical agenda. Not only would this abolish the ever effective Peace Coalition, but would hinder the developement of any other international organizations proposed for the betterment of the region lest every nation agree to join.
-Peace to All

I see the problem with having no sub-groups. Therefore, how about changing that to allow groups to be legal as long as they are open to all nations in the Confederation. What I didn't want was conniving, plotting factions.