NationStates Jolt Archive

Soon enough, I shall be RP'ing my own vampiric characters.

I was just wondering...... are there universal attributes of a vampire that everyone agrees upon.

Besides the standard, drink blood, super fast/strong, sunlight/fire = bad.

Anything else like psychic abilities or flight?

Soon enough, I shall be RP'ing my own vampiric characters.

I was just wondering...... are there universal attributes of a vampire that everyone agrees upon.

Besides the standard, drink blood, super fast/strong, sunlight/fire = bad.

Anything else like psychic abilities or flight?

Flight is usually a no, unless they have wings or the like.

Most of my knowledge on vampires either comes from the Anne Rice books or the Dracula/other vampire movies.

Obviously the Dracula stuff is fairly different to the Anne Rice stuff.

I think you have two or three kinds of Vampires, but i know you have the Nosferatu and the human looking vamps..

Age also plays an important role.

As I gathered......

Older vamps been significantly stronger than new. What if an old vamp makes a new one. Does that make the newb stronger than usual?

wait for it, I've got a book coming out when I'm done typing it....

As I gathered......

Older vamps been significantly stronger than new. What if an old vamp makes a new one. Does that make the newb stronger than usual?

That really depends on the source. If you go by the ol' route that "The closer to the original vampire they are, the purer the blood and the stronger the vampire"

Gah! There is a lot to say on what they can and can’t do… but if you’ve ever watched a film with them in, read a book with some vampires or even watched “Buffy the Vampire Slayer” then you can base it off that, freeform allows you to do what you like, however, I would be a happy man if you paid attention to some guidelines I’m going to make… they are in no way needed, but this is my preference.

You don’t have to be a super strong, fast or otherwise powerful… not all vampires are, though it is generally excepted that they most often are at least a little stronger, faster and tougher then humans.

You sun-light always kills you… though how long it would take for it to happen is up to you… some vampire go “puff” and others just get horrible burns for a couple minutes before dying screaming for mercy or forgiveness… the strength of your vampire will be a part of it. Please, don’t do Blade from the film “Blade” though, because that sucks ass… sunlight is something most vampires at least try to avoid. This sometimes (but not always) includes UV lights.

Fire will also kill you… though this is often slower then sunlight, but not by much. In some cases vampires fear fire and even a spark (in extreme cases) can make you run away in terror… but that isn’t RPed much because it’s something from WoD. Generally most vampires’ keep away from the stuff and only the most insane vampires will use a flamethrower.

Beheading is pretty much a method of reaching final death… seeing as your head contains your brain and thus all your functions. Though in some fiction it takes more then this to kill a vampire… see Ultraviolet who made them regenerate no matter what, they contained their bodies in a UV camber so they wouldn’t come back… it was a good show though.

Stake in the heart will do different things depending on whom you ask. Most fiction seems to think this will kill your average vampire and I guess it has been done so much it is accepted… however, WoD, the system I use, makes them completely immobilized when this happens. It has to be wood though, or carbon at least and in the heart which is not in the left breast, but in the middle.

Normal damage will injure a vampire, but it isn’t going to kill them in the long run unless it fulfills one of the above. E.g. You shoot them in the head with a high caliber weapon… seeing as it can decapitate a human, the same will probably apply for most vampires. You could also use a grenade to cause fire damage, which could (if enough damage is done) kill the vampire. If you just shoot it to bits it will probably have to spend a lot of time regenerating though. Bullets do less damage to a vampire if it hits them in the area that are not the head or the heart… seeing as it is just dead tissue the holes won’t do much to them. But it still hurts. They also get affect by the knock back that weapons cause… this said, a physically strong vampire could just ignore this at least to some degree.

Bashing damage will be pointless unless you hit it in the noggin (head) because again, it would be like punching a tree. Still hurts but it is easier to ignore. Slashing weapons will do normal damage however because they can cut stuff off and it’s a nastier wound.

Your powers are down to the imagination… though I would prefer it if you didn’t go down the arch-magi route. If you are stuck, go for the clichéd stuff or ask one of use vampire players, I have numerous books memorized about it. Basically think of things your see in the movies or things you think will fit the character… super speed for a while, super strength… and so on are common. So is flight and telepathy.

You should require blood every day, though it doesn’t always matter what type of blood in the end… some books state that only human blood will do and generally that works, but bear in mind you can use any blood like rats and pigs and so on… only it shouldn’t satisfy you much and you will probably still crave the real stuff, you can live off it, but you still want the good stuff. Some books think that vampire blood is like human blood but better… but other vampires may kill you if they find out about it.

You live forever… providing you don’t: get killed or die of disease…yes, disease. I some books (WoD is one) think that vampires can contract blood diseases from humans, so imagine a HIV positive vampire or some other form of blood transmitted disease, in these modern times vampires have to be careful.

You can’t eat food… this is pretty much echoed in most literature and films… they can’t eat food because their stomach is dead and withered. Some of them can eat food but they still have to cough up ashes or the food hours later, you defiantly shouldn’t be sustaining yourself with food… if they do that and I’ll hunt them myself.

You could RP a religious side of it too, but it’s not required, only half the stuff I’ve read makes vampires evil when they become vampires… usually by loosing their souls or the such. However systems like WoD make you just have to deal with the craving for blood (human) and other added minuses from the damnation you receive. In WoD you have “the beast” a metaphoric name for the craving that they have. This beast is always inside them, no matter how hard they try to suppress it and it become active in extreme circumstances… for example, if you are low on blood (or real hungry) then you may frenzy, of you are angered greatly you may frenzy… you get the idea. Basically try to at least act like you have an addiction problem if you are going to be a nice vampire… fight the beast and the such. You are not just a human in superhuman wrapping.

The age of a vampire also contributes to your mentality… you may decide to have a fledgling vampire who is yet un-ravaged by the effects of time, or you may have a 1000 yr old vampire. The latter need serious thought; otherwise I will shun the character at every opportunity. This is because the older your vampire get the more things he was seen, the more chance that he’s lost his composure and killed innocents and simply the effects of being immortal… loosing touch with the age you are in, not being able to adjust as quickly as others and apathy… people stop meaning so much when they die around you all the time… time itself becomes less important to you at 1000yrs… a year is like a week to them because they’ve got used to watching it go by. Another important point is how does a 1000yr old vampire keep out of trouble for that long? Maybe he’s quiet or he rules like the immuminati (sp) but he won’t be a combat character because they tend to die early.

That’s enough for now… you get the idea.

The White Wolf roleplaying system has a setup for vampires including clear and concise descriptions, lists of potential and typical abilities, and more. You might want to take a look at their stuff if you want a well-known and easy-to-find source for information that might be helpful during roleplay as well. The actual White Wolf website, vampire section, can be found at http://www.white-wolf.com/vampire.html although you might want to check out some of the fanpages as well. :twisted:

Iuthia has the idea.

Useful... have come up against a few uberwank I-kill-you-with-my-evil-vamp-stare-of-doom-level-3000 vampires, can't be hurt by anything short of 91742960402752 silver-tipped nukes... you get the idea :roll: . Thanks for the guidelines...

Iuthia you seriously need to write a book! 8)

I read this Terry Pratchett book where there were these vamps who'd trained themselves to be immune to sunlight, holy symbols etc. Also some legends say that vamps can control the thoughts of mortals. :evil:

Haha, that would be Carpe Juglem (sp) which was a book in which the three witches of Lancre: Nanny Ogg, Ms Weatherwax and err… the new one who was a opera singer… go to the Discworld equivalent of Transylvania to fight the new age vampires who, like you said… had trained themselves up to be immune to all the normal bad parts of being a vampire. However… it took a lot of time, eating food laced with garlic and getting used to the sun (getting turned into ash on numerous occasions). But in the end all it took was for Ms Weatherwax to be drained of her blood for the witches to win as she fought them from the inside out…

Bah… I’ve only read it once so I can’t quote it or remember it right, but yeah… you’ve got to remember that Terry Pratchett write those novels to satire our own world with his magic one, it’s all based on the real world and it’s all in good humor. The vampires he has are all clichéd and anyone RPing his vampires should be prepared to wear evening clothes all the time as well as having some kind of narrative clause to boot (the entire series is run of narrative clause… he turns it into a science where people become victims of fairy tales and the such… just read “Witches Abroad” and you’ll know what I mean.
I think it’s safe to say that I could find interest in RPing something from Terry Pratchett’s books because he still has a set law of physics in his books, even if it’s a warped version of our own… take the butterfly that can control the effects that it’s wings have (which are fractal, so they could be infinite) which are based around chaos theory (if a butterfly flapped it’s wing in a garden a storm could occur on the other side of the world) and so the butterfly could cause storms as a defense mechanism…

*ahem* anyways, it’s not really good form to run a character in a serious role-play who relies on the rules that Pratchett uses… that would make it crazy… though not impossible if you were careful…

I think I may have to start a thread on guidelines in a bit…

I read this Terry Pratchett book where there were these vamps who'd trained themselves to be immune to sunlight, holy symbols etc. Also some legends say that vamps can control the thoughts of mortals. :evil:

See telepathy mentioned earlier... the only people who can resist it are people of high willpower and those with supernatural powers themselves. Humans can hardly resist telepathy from being like vampires on their own and need to be trained to be able to effectively stop it from working.

However, for those who don’t like being bitch slapped by the vampirism kind, read into WoD: Hunter the Reckoning. It’s a book about ordinary men and women who were unlucky enough to have the underworld of vampires, werewolves and fairies revealed to them… once this occurs and they respond, they are imbued with their own powers and resistance… basically this is humanities response to the escalating activities of supernatural creatures. They are rear and they no nothing… only that these things exist and they could be dangerous… some try to find out what they are, some try to save them and other kill them. Most of the book you have to forget what you know about the other systems so you can learn again as a hunter who doesn’t know anything accept how to be an accountant… however when they use their conviction they are pretty much immune to all supernatural powers… just not the strength or the raw energy that may be fired by using magic…

Useful... have come up against a few uberwank I-kill-you-with-my-evil-vamp-stare-of-doom-level-3000 vampires, can't be hurt by anything short of 91742960402752 silver-tipped nukes... you get the idea :roll: . Thanks for the guidelines...

Ignore them... they are asking for trouble if they can't accept the simple ideas of their existance... some of them can be damn near invincable... some can even soak sunlight... but once you get to that level you are pretty much talking about stupidly high powered characters... which is when I get to use my friends 20 story red dragon... or my powered armour Mobile Infantry (from another good book, see, it's good to read kids) who are armed with my Gauss Rifles...

Oh... and as for White Wolf... anyone RPing 4th Gen and above will be ignored unless they can write 10 pages of RP to explain why he/she is out in the real world and acting normally... not eating all the vampires he can.

Dont forget dunpeils* my freind... half vampires half humans.
happen all the time, usually rape, but in the case of -Vampire Hunter D: bloodlust- its a Mutual love. alsays interesting. I sugest you watch the Bloodlust vamp hunter d movie to get a good idea. Its usually available at blockbuster or even borders. You can get some interesting differences in dunpeils though... anything from the classic Blade runner- immortality and regeneration with super strength- or a wimpy human that is allergic to sun. I myself roleplay dunpeils all the time, and it offers some interesting experiences.

...nation zero one :twisted:

* not sure on spelling.... that should be right

Well I personally do vampires as whatever you want. My vampire is pretty powerful, but along with virtues, come vices. You might want to also consider how old the character is, and whom sired them.

*golf clap*

Well done, Iuthia. I didn't know you had it in you. There are a lot of intricacies inherent to playing a vampire character, lots of really in-depth concepts that a lot of players unfortunately forget.

Of course, the finer subtleties depend on which types of vampires you are using as your base, but ultimately there are several across-the-board accepted truths.

Vampires are cursed. Cast out from God's blessing. In almost every vampire story out there, the Vampire did something horrible to cause his/her transformation. Vlad's incredible tortures, Caine's murder, Judas' betrayal of Jesus, the list goes on and on and on. Vampires are damned, simple as that.

Vampires will live forever, unless killed. (already covered by Iuthia)

Drinking blood. Yeah, there are some cases where the drinking problem can be controlled to a degree, IE. Golconda. However, this is not universally accepted, and even in WhiteWolf, the attainment of Golconda is reserved for special and extremely rare cases.

Powers. Vampires are gifted with powers beyond normal humans. However, not all vampires have the same set of powers, or even use the powers in the same way.

Other stuff Iuthia's already said

Ultimately, remember that vampires are unique and terrible. Most of them are content with their damnation, and enjoy the passions of the flesh more rigorously than others. A few do not accept it, and spend their unlife in prayer and supplication, though it really does no good.

Even still, vampires have to deal with a lot, and I would believe that the constant strain of trying to keep up with the world around them, coupled with their forced isolation, the Curse, and their incredibly long life, creates a kind of mental unsettlement. They were once just normal people, like you and me, but forced into paranormal existance for whatever reason.

I don’t mind people RPing vampires how they like, but I strongly prefer that they consider the side effects of their characters existence as a being who require blood as sustenance…

I like Kain on the whole as a character and I think you are a good RPer… but Kain the character is becoming unbelievable… it just doesn’t say “vampire” to me… maybe a immortal Goth who has been playing too much Soul Reaver 2 (I prefer the first game, legacy of Kain… that rocked) because even the game he’s based off addressed the hunger that dwelled within him.

It just lacks… depth.

I’ve gone over this a few times, re-wrote bits and so on… but I’m tired of arguing it. Kain no longer feels like a vampire… just another powerful being with a good plot… give him a anime pic and he’d fit in with some others I’ve seen… but it’s not vampirism to me.

I’ll try and make this the last I say on the issue… like I said before, I won’t ignore anyone because of it… and Iuthia is generally a nation of relatively open minded people so they won’t ever shun you… unless you act as though humans are lesser beings… that’s something different entirely…

But damn it… where have all the good vampires gone? The ones who bury their childer to make them less human? The ones who masquerade as humans and control powerful positions…

Well, I only know of a few and most of them are in Free Iuthia and Iuthia… the unknown citizens of Iuthia, they aren’t heard by the international community because they don’t want to be heard… attention breeds xenophobia (natural in humans would you believe) and they are vastly outnumbered. Powerful as they may be… many, many more humans exist.

*golf clap*

Well done, Iuthia. I didn't know you had it in you. There are a lot of intricacies inherent to playing a vampire character, lots of really in-depth concepts that a lot of players unfortunately forget.

I skipped most to make it simple... plus, not all literature agrees that vampires are damned... just most of them. Some of them ust feel damned instead... but they all seem to feel angst, if they don't except it.

As for not having it in me? You've missed most of my Huge rants on the matter, some at Rave, some at Kain and others at n00bs... then again... half of them are concerning the lack of physics that alot of them forget about...

Meh... I'll retract part of it... Kain's character is well role-played... though I just don't like it for OOC reasons. As such you can RP vampires how you like, but the afore mentioned would make me a happy man.

Just wondering, Starke, if you were one of the larger/older/RPing royalty's puppet nations? Only I've had a swift glance at Antediluvian Dreams and it's very very good indeed... more so than most November nations (myself included) could manage. :) Just idle curiosity...

And a general question: could someone give the names of a few White Wolf books dealing with vampires (if there are books)? I'm attracted to this idea of a vampire as a very twisted, mentally/emotionally unstable kind of being, and wanted to get a little background on vampires White-Wolf style. Thanks.

Meh... I'll retract part of it... Kain's character is well role-played... though I just don't like it for OOC reasons. As such you can RP vampires how you like, but the afore mentioned would make me a happy man.

Thanks, but you have to take a couple of things into account. Kain was sired under unusual circumstances, hence his unusal apperance. I deliberatly made him have vices of many descriptions to counter balance a lot of what he has.

Oh and by the way, he very rarely feeds (he certainly still feels the hunger, which drives him insane. He cannot kill mortals) due to the powers of the Brightblade (a demon blade.) Yes...yes this sounds all uber and wonderful.

Well it aint. On first glance you could say, "OMG GODMODDER". And I am not saying you are obviously. But The Brightblade, is....lets just say effecting Kain and....others are watching him via it.

Cloven hands do have a...practical disadvantage. Writing has become a problem. But in combat, it has helped a little.

I feel that I have not forgotten a lot of things to do which vampirism....but then again, that is just my opinion. Out of interest, what is this about not taking physics into account? I am slightly confused on that one....

Oh and by the way, Kain WILL be downgraded eventually. A lot of his power comes from his sword. Look at the rp "The End?". Also, in my own rp to change what Kain will be responcible for, "Kain Irenicus, Fate of a Nation" the Brightblade "might" be given away by Kain, due to the agreement he made.

So I understand your concerns, but Kain has a lot of hardship. And who knows how the hell he is going to react in the aftermath of Rave dying (if she does), and the other bretern betrayal.

I am working on it...I am working on it. :)

Thanks to everyone for the advice...... I think I've got a pretty good idea of what I'll be doing.

Iuthia: http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=90131*
*
As a note, I absolutely detest both Kain and Rave. In fact, my ick about them was so great that I decided to go ahead and start James to be not only the type of vampire that is more proper, but to show how a powerful vampire is still a vampire, and to attract other grade-A players that play vampires well. (ie. as they should be played)
*
I will admit, Kain is a decent writer, his stuff is not too shabby. However, the ability to write does not a good roleplayer make, and as a roleplayer, I rank Kain among some of the shoddiest munchkins out there. Powergamer to a T, and infatuated with his own storylines.*
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At least he's quite a few shades better than that other munchkin horror. *shudder**
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Suffice it to say, this really isn't the right forum to be playing single Vampire characters in. While I'll readily admit that it is fun and an interesting diversion from the more mundane aspects of running an international superpower, this really is not the right medium. There are hundreds of WoD, FF Vampire, and character-based forums where they are more functional. But, alas, they are all chock full of horrific players.*
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Anyway, yes, I am one of the elder nations. I've been playing here for almost a year now, and I've pretty much enjoyed every minute of it. Thank you for your compliment, Henleaze.

Heh. Reading this thread, I feel like doing some side RPs in the World of Darkness... Maybe even introducing a few discreet coteries of bloodsuckers into my cities.

Now, after reading Starke's post, and then perusing that thread, I will have to begrudgingly accept a well-played WoD character in NS.*
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*reluctant applause**
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Now, as for all of this talk about Vampires and such, I do not believe that I have anything really to add. Starke and Iuthia have pretty much covered all of the bases, including the more important damned/cursed parts.*
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Something that I noticed, however, is Starke's attention to detail. His description of Vicissitude as a disease, his refusal to call vampires anything but Kindred, and his reaction to the lighting of his own cigarette. Great stuff, I really have to tip my hat to you.*
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Though saying he's the best Kindred in NS is not too hard, especially considering who he's being compared to...*

I have begun......

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=99533&highlight=

Cough Cough... I start this thread a couple months ago... (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=1)it was meant to build up to join something else, but I didn't have the time (having a job) to make it fit and be detailed... it's not perfect but at least it's something I'm trying to do... mostly it's kind of a prelude for all my characters...


Anyways...Kain, I make a point of not read Rave's plots anymore... not that I read them much before I RPed with her... there is alot to read and I should be reading Whispering Voices stuff becuase I actually need to know that... but there are also little things that get on my nerves that I just can't get into it... firstly the plot is centred on the Shentavo's...

Now in a way... I'm used to that, I've got alot of plots in which my own characters feel important... but hell, at least I listen and then ask questions when someone else gives their background, or talks about their nation... Rave doesn't... I'd like to see an example of otherwise, becuase I've had an entire thread based around a leader talking to her and it feels like I would have to force a conversation about something else to get anywhere...

Mix it with moves which cause me to rant like a bitch... and role-play which hurts my very soul. (snip huge rant about fight in "the new girl thread" read it and you will know my pain... Varya is a true vampire who gets bitchy becuase her 20 yrs experience on the street fighting the Camarilla means she can understand Sage's suck ass new martial art... which is proven to suck ass as I use normal moves to beat it)

Romantic and long it may be... but with realism it isn't... I stick to talking with her character from now on to avoid the pain of fighting impossible odds against impossible moves and characters... I'll stop there before I burn any more bridges... it's just tension I have to get out my system... oh... and keep me away from the Seth character... he's the most painful sorry excuse for a vampire I've every met... a completely normal 1000+ yr old vampire that is one of the first vampires (AARRRGGG!!1!) and is perfectly normal... I can't stress that enough... completely normal... and arrogant... and completely normal, even after three seperate rants about how 1000 yr old vampires are never normal.



Anyways... moving swiftly on...

Kain, I'll keep this simple, becuase I should limit my ranting for medical reasons. If your vampire does actively fight the hunger you have for human blood then wouldn't you know that other vampires have to do this (without help of your sword) then wouldn't he know that they are not suitable as teacher... thats what lunched my rant on the other thread... vampires around children that could be trusted... even Kain will know that alot of humans don't have your willpower, your integity...

Here's something for those who IC argue against you... vampires are like humans, simple huh? But wait... they are like humans, with a craving for blood... ok, so we can resist that craving, only most humans still smoke even though they know they shouldn't. Then you make them powerful humans who can easily over power people, mentally and pyhsically... humans like power, it makes them feel strong, so what we will ulimately end up with is a powerful human who has to resist using that power and resist his craving for blood.

Humans are not nice, but at least they can control on another... almost, we still have crime and so on... but what if you have one bad vampire... well, he could cause major damage. They are dangerous not because they are evil, but because it's easier for them to fall from grace... not taking into account their damnation (which is optional) and their loosing their soul (again optional) vampires are indeed... a threat.

Physics is probably me mixing Rave into my rant earlier... beleive me, it's an option to her to have physics... and I've ranted at her for missing them out... I mean, who can really fall backwards, using their legs to pull a pole out of your hands upwards, meanwhile trying to push it towards you and hit you with it, while they are trying to hit you with it... thankfully we changed that into a funny mistake on her part... I don't know everything about physics Kain, but just by looking at it in my mind tells me that it's not going to work.

Now, after reading Starke's post, and then perusing that thread, I will have to begrudgingly accept a well-played WoD character in NS.*
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*reluctant applause*
To be honest... I thought you were Starke, complements to him/her I guess, because I like the expertise you show on the issue of vampirism... even though when I talk about it I try to be open minded to new ideas.

Feel free to read the above thread... it's a little long and it's not perfect, but I've got to learn...

And a general question: could someone give the names of a few White Wolf books dealing with vampires (if there are books)? I'm attracted to this idea of a vampire as a very twisted, mentally/emotionally unstable kind of being, and wanted to get a little background on vampires White-Wolf style. Thanks.

Depends on how far you want to go... "Vampire: the Masquarade" is the main book concerning vampires in the World of Darkness, basically this book gives you all the rules and background you will need to be able to run a game of entirely vampire character in your RP group (or just details on vampires if you just want it for that) and it is a table top RP game as they say "For adult minds".

After that they have god knows how many other books which go with it to add depth, I've only got 2 clan books (Malcavian and Tremere) and the guides to Sabbat and Camarilla... both guides are great for understanding how they work, but you can get the jist in the main book.

However, they are table top RP books and as such they will cost a fair bit (Hardback, 300 pages of rules ect...) so if you are just looking for something to read about vampires that can help you in NS... try reading some Anne Rice books, "Interview with a Vampire" is a good book, better then the film but basically the same... it goes on to some pretty powerful characters as the books go on... but alot of the WoD ideas seem to come from books like it.

I always thought that even though Malkav was one of the first few vampires, hes still as insane as he ever was! :)

I always thought that even though Malkav was one of the first few vampires, hes still as insane as he ever was! :)

It helps if you start off mad though... he's very perceptive none the less. Though I don't think he's awake at the moment, 3rd Gen vampires are insanly powerful.

Well I've startred my introduction thread. I've got 2 characters at the moment.

A 5 hundred and something vamp and a recent fledgeling. We shall see how things turn out. 8)

Points taken with a positive attitude. As I said, I am trying to power down Kain in the future. And I agree, some of the stuff that Rave writes is rather like Bragon Ball Z, that you know, uber stuff. I try to stay away from that, but at the moment, to get out of the tangle of plots that I am in with Rave, I will keep like this. Soon the Brightblade shall go....then we start having some interesting situations.

It is important to note for some of my critics who might say that I am too powerful, that I allowed Kain to be captured by Roania in one of the vampire summits. And I apologie for that incident in the vampire thign which Whispering Voices did, that was dumb of me. Kain without his sword = weak. Just trying to downgrade him slowly....

I think Rave is going to change somethings, most of her characters are going to die...but I do not know of the other thread, of what it is about.

What are you talking about with Kain being a teacher? Can you explain this aprt to me a little better? It might just be me...

Kain, I'll keep this simple, becuase I should limit my ranting for medical reasons. If your vampire does actively fight the hunger you have for human blood then wouldn't you know that other vampires have to do this (without help of your sword) then wouldn't he know that they are not suitable as teacher... thats what lunched my rant on the other thread... vampires around children that could be trusted... even Kain will know that alot of humans don't have your willpower, your integity...

What are you talking about with Kain being a teacher? Can you explain this aprt to me a little better? It might just be me...

Hm... ok, I'll try again without the cloud of Rave Rage (tm) what I mean is when you claim (IC) that vampires can have normal jobs, e.g. teaching and so on because they know more.

My point is that you, Kain the vampire, know that vampires are like humans but potentially alot more dangerous, I mean, if a human can't resist having a smoke, whats going to make him resist the powerful craving for blood he will get? Kain knows this, yet is ok with suggesting that they could make good normal people with a strong use in society.

It's what set me off, I'm ok with Kain in general becuase the character can work in the end... it's just that when you suggest stuff like that, it makes me question what you really think of vampires...

Vampires have issues, more then any human... whats more is those "issues" come with absolute power, that power often corrupts... I mean, why should you, a superior being listen to me, a mear human? You may have lived for 200 years, why should you continue to listen to humans, who don't know what you've been through...

I'm thinking that a vampire with your inteligence (you were a mage or something before becoming undead) should be able to work out that your race is far from trustable on the pure principal that they are human, look at Roania... what if those guys were vampires? Damn, we would be screwed...


Anyways... concerning Rave, I was talking about the new stuff. Seroiously, look up the fights in the "The new girl" thread... they still have [shudders] Seth and they still treat us as unimportant... I'm happy with losing, providing I don't lose for a stupid reason, or lose to a stupid character...

I'm not going to keep hanging over that Whispering Voices thing, I don't care anymore, I know you've condemned that and your not going to do it again, I'm ok with Kain, he's balanced though I feel his mentality need work (don't we all)...

But I do have a problem with character who acts arrogant as though they are better, who then goes on to prove they arn't by mistake and then don't allow me to say I won fair and square... I mean, she implied that I would have lost if it were not for another character entering the ring... I dominated that part of the RP by doing thing practically and not flashy and dumb... and yet to win in a empty dumb way was the thing that spited me the most... everything as reasonable up to that point... I fought I may have a good fight, but it was yet another ploy to make the character better in all ways without having the depth that actually makes them better.

Sorry... its just something which anoyed me more then anything else. I'll shut up about it for the time being, it's not relavant.

(OOC Kain was a ruler of a nation before he turned into a vampire, Velmora. He was a mage yes. He might claim power once again)

IC: You raise interesting points. Ones which I think I can answer.

Your first point. These cravings are strong yes, but a smoker in your case can get help by nicotine patches correct? The vampires can simply feed from blood banks and the like should the goverment allow them to use them. I believe it would be fine for a vampire to become a part of helpful part of society. Humans can be violant in thier emotions and characters, so can vampires.

Power...yes power corrupts. I would listen to you because I value your opinions, experiances and what you have. I am still a fledgling, I have not existed for long within this world so cannot say much about some aspects of vampirism. I cannot answer all the questions. But I do hold much respect and sometimes in great admiration towards mortals, for you still do not have the troubles and vices that vampires do. We should remain to understand and accept that vampire or human, one must always listen and respect the other and not disregard the other. Vampires are NOT superior, and neither are humans. They both have thier positive and negative aspects, one which are moral and must be decided by each person. But I digress.

I cannot answer all the questions, I still have much to learn.

Kain Irenicus.

You raise interesting points. Ones which I think I can answer.

Your first point. These cravings are strong yes, but a smoker in your case can get help by nicotine patches correct? The vampires can simply feed from blood banks and the like should the goverment allow them to use them. I believe it would be fine for a vampire to become a part of helpful part of society. Humans can be violant in thier emotions and characters, so can vampires.

Firstly, this is all OOC... I can't raise these issues with a IC character I have, with exception to the vampires I have, who don't do international communication.

Drinking from humans is just as much the pleasure of actually drinking the still alive blood as it is the substance, the warmth and the sensation you get from actually doing it, the extasy... more then any sexual encounter could of provided (dodgy turf now...) when you drink from a pack of blood... it's not the same, no pleasure, just sustinance... IMO, it's not been defined.

Oh... and apparently it's pretty much impossible to make synthetic blood, I've got a friend who did biology who can back it up... I hope. It's pretty much something to do with it's make up... it's like the same reason orange juice and lemon juice are exactly the same on a chemical level...

Like I said, it's not becuase vampirism makes you evil, it's because it's easier to fall from grace as a vampire. Also, how many people actually stop smoking because of patch?

Bah... I'll add more when I can be assed... but if you want, I'll leave it.

Good point. But it is something which vampires just have to overcome. Drink from humans or choose a more moral path and drink from blood donors. I agree with you, drinking from a human is far more pleasurable, but Kain has only drunk from other vampries (who are far more older, so their blood is like fire, so Kain does not know what it is like to drink from a mortal.

And with creating blood, I am sure some high tech nation could do something, but hey, this is just my input.

It's not the blood that is really important, it is the life essence itself. Just as elder vampires need more and more human blood to satisfy, and the truely ancient cainites can only gain sustinance from other vampires.

As a high-tech nation, I do not think that there is any sort of technology that could replicate that. Sure, one could create a liquid solvent that contained all of the appropriate compounds and nutrients, but I seriously doubt that it would be at all "refreshing".

I do believe that somewhere in the V:tM book it speaks of feeding from bloodbanks, and that the vampire has to drink blood that is pretty recently fresh. Something about how the blood begins to loose its potency.

In fact, I recall a Thaumaturgical ritual for storing blood that mystically seals a jar to keep the blood within from "losing its flavour".

Lastly, arguing with Kain is like arguing with a stone wall, only the wall would provide more intelligent input. He cannot argue with coherence in OOC, as he focuses everything around his character. He is exactly like every other munchkinVamp that will never accept any way other than his own.

It doesn't matter that I've been playing Vampire since its release in '94, or that I've studied the vampire mythos for longer than that. It doesn't matter that I've written all sorts of research papers, thesis, and essays on both the fictional and psuedo-nonfictional culture surrounding the existance of Vampires.

He will never listen to his betters, and arguing with him is pointless. As much as I respect you, Iuthia, I am afraid that you are only casting your pearls before swine.

---
angel Caelistis
The mind behind the nation

{{SNIP}}

---
angel Caelistis
The mind behind the nation

Seeing Angel talk all high like that gets me hot. *Bow chicka womp womp* Uh-huh.

Seeing Angel talk all high like that gets me hot. *Bow chicka womp womp* Uh-huh.

ooc:

*grin* Just for you, baby.

Too many times have I gotten hot over your Reavers, so I had to do something

Rather an arrogant way of loking at things hmm? And this is coming from someone who does not understand what an IC arguement is. I believe your words where, "THIS ENTIRE ARGUEMENT IS OOC". That sure was correct.... But I digress, you have satirised yourself within that arguement.

I shall repeat for those who refuse to understand.

Others take different interpretations of things. I respect your views, but respect mine and my rp style. You may think what you wish, but do not try to degrade ME when all I have done is rp the way I want to.

Point taken on about IC arguing, got a little messed up then. Apologies for that. But do not insult me, least I treat you with just the same manner. I respect you input and opinion, but do not force them upon me as correct.

that will never accept any way other than his own.
Rather much like youself then? What a brilliant case of self hypricricy, you make my task too easy.

Oh and for your own ironic hypocricy what is this?

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angel Caelistis
The mind behind the nation

Correct me if I am wrong, but is this, or is this not an IC signiture? Now please do correct me here, I think I might have got this wrong, but is that "mind behind the nation" the player or a character? If it is the character, please do not cricise me without critising youself.

More random whining.

Hypocracy? *snort* I seriously doubt that one could call instruction hypocracy. Sit in any classroom and argue with the teacher that what he/she is teaching is wrong, and that she is being hypocritical for not accepting your views on the subject.

2+2=4, and though you may not like it, it's still true. So, I'll accept your different viewpoints on vampirism and all your other bullshit, but don't expect me to accept it as anything other than a crappy offshoot from what is otherwise a decent storyline.

Your character is not a vampire, simple as that. Take that aspect from him, and I'll accept your roleplay. Add it, and you're just like every other munchkin out there. Wanting all the cool benefits from being a vampire, but with none of the consequences.

---
angel Caelistis
The mind behind the nation

ps. Angel Caelistis is my name, dumbass.

Sigh... you know, it can be a little fustrating to be in a arguement where you realise that you, a 19yr old arrogant "Clerical Assistant", are the most grown up person there.

Come on, you two... I don't care if Angelus used a IC thread to argue a OOC point with you Kain, nor do I care if Kain will "be like talking to a brick wall", I'm going to discuss vampires eitherway becuase when I should be doing work I'd rather have something interlectual and fun to do instead like post on NS... even if people don't listen in the end.

Bah... I've never been a good debator anyways, words fail me.

Kain is listening... I can tell, but even if he ignores what I've said it doesn't matter to me, I like arguing the point becuase it makes me feel smart and ulitimatly in my own opinion I feel that if he chooses to ignore it then it's his own lose, not mine.

Meanwhile, Angelus's arguements cannot be thrown away on the prinipal that she did something wrong once... if people ignored me for that then I wouldn't be able to get anyone to listen. She has proven herself to be well informed and her posts are done with thought... even if it is thought about how best to insult you. If I had said that (I didn't think of it so Kudo's as usual to Angelus, the great debator with cares not about what you think of her) then you would argue against it with more inteligence... then again, she did start it... meh... just don't ignore it is all I'm saying, her arguement is valid, though flamitory.


As for munchkin characters... I won't touch that with a 10 foot poking stick. Though I must admit that at times it can be anoying, it's my fault for allowing myself to get involved... which in turn gives me the right to rant at them... after all, I may have subjected myself to their plot, I haven't given my RP completely to them, so stupid things can kindly f*ck off.

Anyways... while I am truely flattered that I am held in what I see to be... high reguard... I am not woried about wasting good arguements, I feel that they were justified becuase I don't have a reason to rant at you to tell you how to RP vampires... even if I did... well, lets just say that I'm a fan of re-using my older work when I haven't got the time.


Final note... I think sometime I'm going to have to do some more ranting about munchkin characters... I'll admit, I'm RPing a 20 story red dragon for a friend at the moment, but it's a character and not a fighting mahcine... it will never fight because red dragons are beyond doing the fighting themselves... Zoltan is more of a comical moster who is the leader of a nation, but doesn't actually run it, I'm doing a sterotypical "advisor" plot where the advisor actually runs the nation, the dragon just demands stuff.

More random whining.

Hypocracy? *snort* I seriously doubt that one could call instruction hypocracy. Sit in any classroom and argue with the teacher that what he/she is teaching is wrong, and that she is being hypocritical for not accepting your views on the subject.

2+2=4, and though you may not like it, it's still true. So, I'll accept your different viewpoints on vampirism and all your other bullshit, but don't expect me to accept it as anything other than a crappy offshoot from what is otherwise a decent storyline.

Your character is not a vampire, simple as that. Take that aspect from him, and I'll accept your roleplay. Add it, and you're just like every other munchkin out there. Wanting all the cool benefits from being a vampire, but with none of the consequences.

---
angel Caelistis
The mind behind the nation

ps. Angel Caelistis is my name, dumbass.

Oh I am tierd of this arguement. Fine hold your views, I respect yours now respect mine. Think what you will, it changes nothing. You have already ignored me, so you could not effect me.

Sorry about the sig thing. I put down that I did not know if it was your name or a characters name. You got to admit, it could be a character name easily.

It seems I have fuelled some creative feuds by making this thread....... :roll:

If any of you can find time to stop arguing...... I have started my vamp characters......

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=99533&highlight=

A) Vampires=Bad
B)... see A)

That's about all I have to say on the subject.

Depends if your speaking of classical vampires of Bram Stokers vampire... Pretty much throughout the ages avoiding the sun was something common, however, drinking blood was not common to all vampires. Most spread pestilance and disease, more were not buried correctly and died violently. There was no evidence those ensanguinated by a vampire automatically became them either in folklore though the death did indeed say that death to a vampire raises the chances to rise as one. Also before you get too far ahead, vampires were about as attractive as the bubonic plague, they were described as (and this is every old folktale) violent, ugly, plague ridden, ect.

You might want to look into eastern european folklore as well.