NationStates Jolt Archive

Mostly to repeat what everyone else has said: LE, quit complaining, it's getting ever so boring. Teams lose. Losing can even be fun to RP.

Also wanted to add: i'd certainly never suggest rank compression be used again. But although when i used it in WC5 new teams were ranked 45, rank differential was doubled at the time, which meant new teams for score generation purposes were treated as if they were ranked 90. That was about the same as in WC4, i think. If i hadn't compressed the rankings, new teams would have been ranked 150, or the equivalent of 300 for score generation purposes.

The current system seems to me to produce just about the right amount of upsets.

That ranking is weird. How can Commerce Heights be 5 ranks higher than us when we went to the round-of-16 and they didn't?

That ranking is weird. How can Commerce Heights be 5 ranks higher than us when we went to the round-of-16 and they didn't?

Because it takes into account more than just the most recent Cup. That and the fact that it's only updated through WC10 qualifiers -- the first and second rounds aren't in there yet.

Results for Round 2/Round of 16:

After Full-Time
Giant Zucchini 0 The Lowland Clans 0
Antaeus Rising 3 Bedistan 2
Snub Nose 38 1 Oglethorpia 1
Ariddia 3 Aquilla 2
One Red Dot 2 Europa Brittania 1
Kingsford 1 Audioslavia 0
The Belmore Family 2 Ravenspire 1
Lemmitania 1 Svecia 1

After Extra Time (they call it Silver Goal or something like that right?):
Giant Zucchini 1 The Lowland Clans 1
Snub Nose 38 2 Oglethorpia 3
Lemmitania 2 Svecia 1

After Penalty Shootout:
[code:1:18e211dfbc]
Giant Zucchini 1 1 1 1
The Lowland Clans 1 0 0[/code:1:18e211dfbc]

Rankings for 9~32 and provisional rankings for 1~8:
[code:1:18e211dfbc]
Rk Nations P W D L F A GD Pts Q/E

** Giant Zucchini (7) 4 4 0 0 12 2 +10 12 Qlf
** One Red Dot (29) 4 3 1 0 10 5 +5 10 Qlf
** Ariddia (20) 4 3 1 0 7 3 +4 10 Qlf
** Lemmitania (8) 4 3 1 0 7 4 +3 10 Qlf
** Anataeus Rising (40) 4 3 0 1 11 6 +5 9 Qlf
** Kingsford (10) 4 3 0 1 7 3 +4 9 Qlf
** The Belmore Family (9) 4 3 0 1 6 3 +3 9 Qlf
** Oglethorpia (5) 4 3 0 1 7 5 +2 9 Qlf
09 Audioslavia (18) 4 2 0 2 5 3 +2 6 Eli
10 Aquilla (27) 4 2 0 2 8 7 +1 6 Eli
11 Svecia (22) 4 2 0 2 5 5 0 6 Eli
12 Ravenspire (3) 4 1 2 1 7 7 0 5 Eli
13 Snub Nose 38 (6) 4 1 2 1 6 6 0 5 Eli
14 The Lowland Clans (43) 4 1 1 2 7 5 +2 4 Eli
15 Bedistan (4) 4 1 1 2 6 5 +1 4 Eli
16 Europa Britannia (1) 4 1 1 2 7 7 0 4 Eli
17 Oddslavo (21) 3 1 1 1 4 4 0 4 Eli
18 Dark Outcasts (28) 3 1 1 1 2 2 0 4 Eli
19 Commerce Heights (23) 3 1 1 1 3 5 -2 4 Eli
20 Halfassedstates (19) 3 1 0 2 4 5 -1 3 Eli
21 Kaze Progressa (26) 3 1 0 2 5 7 -2 3 Eli
22 Dennisov (14) 3 1 0 2 4 6 -2 3 Eli
23 NASTIC 2 (60) 3 1 0 2 3 6 -3 3 Eli
24 Squornshelous (12) 3 1 0 2 2 5 -3 3 Eli
24 Nikea (31) 3 1 0 2 2 5 -3 3 Eli
26 Tanah Burung (24) 3 1 0 2 3 7 -4 3 Eli
27 Liverpool England (2) 3 0 2 1 2 4 -2 2 Eli
28 Gesamtkuntswerk (11) 3 0 2 1 4 7 -3 2 Eli
29 Runaway Moose (13) 3 0 2 1 1 4 -3 2 Eli
30 The Weegies (50) 3 0 1 2 2 5 -3 1 Eli
31 Total n Utter Insanity (29) 3 0 0 3 0 3 -3 0 Eli
32 Eauz (44) 3 0 0 3 1 9 -8 0 Eli
[/code:1:18e211dfbc]

[code:1:18e211dfbc]
2nd Round/Ro16 Quarterfinals Semifinals
| | |
v | |
v |
Giant Zucchini (7) 1 --| |
GZ wins 4-1 on Penalties |-- Giant Zucchini (7) ? --| v
The Lowland Clans (43) 1 --| |
|-- Winner of QF (1) ? --|
Antaeus Rising (40) 3 --| | |
|-- Antaeus Rising (40) ? --| |
Bedistan (4) 2 --| |
|
Snub Nose 38 (6) 2 --| |
|-- Oglethorpia (5) ? --| |
Oglethorpia (5) 3 --| | |
|-- Winner of QF (2) ? --|
Ariddia (20) 3 --| |
|-- Ariddia (20) ? --|
Aquilla (27) 2 --|

One Red Dot (29) 2 --|
|-- One Red Dot (29) ? --|
Europa Britannia (1) 1 --| |
|-- Winner of QF (3) ? --|
Kingsford (10) 1 --| | |
|-- Kingsford (10) ? --| |
Audioslavia (18) 0 --| |
|
The Belmore Family (9) 2 --| |
|-- The Belmore Family (9) ? --| |
Ravenspire (3) 1 --| | |
|-- Winner of QF (4) ? --|
Lemmitania (8) 2 --| |
|-- Lemmitania (8) ? --|
Svecia (22) 1 --|
[/code:1:18e211dfbc]

Unofficially Unofficial KPB Rankings After Rounds 1/2:
[code:1:6d91d37611] Cup Total
001 Europa Brittania 22.89 +2.57 25.46
002 Liverpool England 24.12 +1.29 25.41
003 Lemmitania 18.78 +6.44* 25.22
004 Oglethorpia 18.83 +5.79* 24.62
005 Ravenspire 20.54 +3.21 23.75
006 Giant Zucchini 15.84 +7.71* 23.55
007 Bedistan 20.71 +2.57 23.28
008 Kingsford 16.38 +5.79* 22.17
009 The Belmore Family 15.74 +5.79* 21.53
010 Ariddia 14.30 +6.43* 20.73
011 Snub Nose 38 17.12 +3.21 20.33
012 Runaway Moose 18.69 +1.29 19.98
013 Oddslavo 15.98 +2.57 18.55
014 Dennisov 16.06 +1.93 17.99
015 Halfassedstates 15.62 +1.93 17.55
016 Svecia 13.32 +3.86 17.18
017 One Red Dot 10.61 +6.43* 17.04
018 Audioslavia 13.10 +3.86 16.96
019 Antaeus Rising 11.00 +5.79* 16.79
020 Commerce Heights 14.20 +2.57 16.77
021 Aquilla 12.83 +3.86 16.69
022 Tanah Burung 14.34 +1.93 16.27
023 Squornshelous 15.16 +1.93 16.23
024 Haraki 14.69 14.69
025 Busby 14.63 14.63
026 Gesamtkuntswerk 14.11 +1.29 15.40
027 Dark Outcasts 12.66 +2.57 15.23
028 Kaze Progressa 13.28 +1.93 15.21
029 Nikea 11.91 +1.93 13.84
030 The Lowland Clans 11.13 +2.57 13.70
031 The Weegies 11.24 +0.64 11.88
032 Timway 11.73 11.73
033 Spaam 11.04 11.04
034 Total n Utter Insanity 11.01 +0.00 11.01
035 NASTIC 2 8.19 +1.93 10.12
036 Eauz 9.93 +0.00 9.93
037 Warnocks Wizards 9.85 9.85
037 Akbarland 9.85 9.85
039 Gilmeecia 9.09 9.09
040 LordSquall 8.37 8.37
041 East Spaam 8.36 8.36
*still playing
All figures are subject to rounding errors.[/code:1:6d91d37611]
EDIT: Fixed.

GZ and ORD now have the two best records in the Cup. That, to me, reeks of suspicion. I'm not saying they generate their own results - perhaps GZ generates ORD wins on his behalf and vice versa? - but I smell a rat. (Stops moaning just because he lost 4-1 to ORD)

Seriously, this has been a bit of an upset-laden Cup, but they happen once in a while. It happened in the last IRL WC, after all.

I fancy the Lemmings to win now :D

As an aside: CH hasn't done the 4.5x multiplier for WCX finals...

GZ and ORD now have the two best records in the Cup. That, to me, reeks of suspicion.

Ehh...I dunno, maybe I just have blind trust. I didn't suspect anything when both Ravenspire and Europa Brittania got to the WC9 final, and I don't suspect anything now. No suspicions were raised when I got to the final in WC8 (Ogle generated all my results, BTW). I personally think the hosts are trustworthy and have better things to do than stack things in their favor...

GZ and ORD now have the two best records in the Cup. That, to me, reeks of suspicion.

Ehh...I dunno, maybe I just have blind trust. I didn't suspect anything when both Ravenspire and Europa Brittania got to the WC9 final, and I don't suspect anything now. No suspicions were raised when I got to the final in WC8 (Ogle generated all my results, BTW). I personally think the hosts are trustworthy and have better things to do than stack things in their favor...

The difference here is that ORD are ranked 29th, whereas you, Ravenspire and EB (and GZ) are top-ten sides...

Mind you, AR are 40th and in the last eight, which is like... oh OK, it's like Senegal making the last eight, which of course happened in Korea-Japan :)

I fancy the Lemmings to win now :D
Do not underestimate the power of the Belmorians!

The difference here is that ORD are ranked 29th, whereas you, Ravenspire and EB (and GZ) are top-ten sides...
Bedistan was 24th in WC8. ;)

The difference here is that ORD are ranked 29th, whereas you, Ravenspire and EB (and GZ) are top-ten sides...
Bedistan was 24th in WC8. ;)

Incorrect. Bedistan was 24th in WC7. 5th in WC8. ;)

Unofficially Unofficial KPB Rankings After Rounds 1/2:
[code:1:5cc68cfc93] Cup Total
009 The Belmore Family 15.74 +5.79* 21.53[/code:1:5cc68cfc93]
Noooooo, do not condemn me to this postion for eternity!

Unofficially Unofficial KPB Rankings After Rounds 1/2:

Some analysis of these for those that are interested:

I took four teams as a reference point for this. Liverpool England, Bedistan (the top 2 in KPB pre-WC10), Cockbill Street, and Iansisle (the top 2 new teams).

Liverpool England
Rank post-WC8: 1
Rank post-WC9: 2
Rank post-WC10: 27
Average rank (WC8-10): 10
KPB rank: 2

Hmm...no offense, but I would think LE would fall quite a bit more than just one place after failing to get out of the first round. Granted, it's not over yet, and my guess is that both Oglethorpia and Lemmitania will pass LE bringing them down to 4th, but that's still pretty high.

Bedistan
Rank post-WC8: 3
Rank post-WC9: 4
Rank post-WC10: 15
Average rank (WC8-10): 7.333
KPB rank: 7

That seems right to me...losing out in the second round brought the team down five positions into 7th place.

Cockbill Street
Rank post-WC8: N/A
Rank post-WC9: N/A
Rank post-WC10: 43
Average rank (WC8-10): N/A
KPB rank: 59

Admittedly, the KPB system does put Cockbill Street lower than they would be through the original method -- about 16 places lower. But considering they only have one World Cup counted as opposed to three, I'd say that's pretty good.

Iansisle
Rank post-WC8: N/A
Rank post-WC9: N/A
Rank post-WC10: 51
Average rank (WC8-10): N/A
KPB rank: 65

Same story as with Cockbill Street, except Iansisle is only 14 places lower instead of 16.


The point of this? Well, basically, it seems to me that these are producing a pretty good representation. I see one flaw, though: at the highest ranks, the distance between each is fairly large -- large enough for the top team to only fall one slot after a 27th-place finish. Besides that, however, I'd say it's working pretty well.

After Extra Time (they call it Silver Goal or something like that right?):

'Silver Goal' is indeed FIFA's flavour of the month. The best way to describe it is imagining each 15-minute half of ET as a match within a match. If one team leads at extra time half time, that's it. If not, it goes to the second half of extra time. Only if it's still level then does it go to penalties.

For example, let's take the SN38-Ogle match. 1-1 at full time. I haven't seen the RP for this so I don't know how these two have RPed the extra-time period, but let's say SN38 scored in the first half of extra time, say on 96 minutes. Now, if Ogle don't equalise in the remaining nine minutes, they're flying out of the land of the spotted zucchinis as losers. But then, they do equalise. Now it's 2-2. Let's say that's the score at half-time in extra time. It goes to the second half of extra time, where in this instance Ogle make it 3-2. Alternatively, Ogle make it 3-2 before half-time in extra time, that's the score at the whistle, game over, goodbye SN38.

Well, basically, it seems to me that these are producing a pretty good representation. I see one flaw, though: at the highest ranks, the distance between each is fairly large -- large enough for the top team to only fall one slot after a 27th-place finish. Besides that, however, I'd say it's working pretty well.

I'd agree. The top ranks are spread out a bit too much, though IRL that might be realistic (you can see the argument between me and AS on whether that is the case further back in this thread).

My idea to represent more accurately relative differences in future formulae is this:

Instead of using the ranking (1-150) in the formula, use the number of ranking points], whichever system is being used.

Obviously, this will require a bit of a formula change, but nothing drastic. The formula used by TBF in his WC11 spreadsheet (I don't know about WCX) is this:

RAND*1000-((850-rank)+(average goals for*4)-(average goals against*4))

Now the goals for/against bit can stay, and just replace the first part of the formula with

RAND*x-(y+rank points)
(note the +rank points not the -rank, as better teams have LOWER ranks but HIGHER ranking points totals)

A realistic rank score for the #1 side in the world is around 30 (Lemmitania will end on almost exactly 31 if they win the Cup, GZ will end on 29.34 if they win the Cup) while new nations will start on 0... so I reckon 200 and 170 would make reasonable constants for x and y.

The main problem I have with Beddy’s system is that results from 12 years ago are being weighted too heavily.

If you take the last two cups, giving full points for the previous cup and half the points for the cup before as I proposed, or if you also add in one-quarter of the points from the cup previous to that one as Audioslavia suggested, you get a better representation of where a team stands.

The formula I’ve been testing is:
[code:1:b18a94b63f]

a*r1+b*r2+c*r3
-------------- = Score
a+b+c
[/code:1:b18a94b63f]

a= 1
b= 2
c= 4
r1= WC8 rank
r2= WC9 rank
r3= WC10 rank

For teams in their first year, I assigned them a and b values of 0, making their scores the rank they finished in.

I’ll refer to the examples given by Bedistan

Liverpool England
WC8: 1
WC9: 2
WC10: 27

Average Weighted Rank: ((1*1)+(2*2)+(27*4))/7 = 16.14

Bedistan
WC8: 3
WC9: 4
WC10: 15

Average Weighted Rank: ((1*1)+(2*2)+(27*4))/7 = 10.14

The average weighted rank is a score (where the lowest possible score is the best) and if I could find the rankings for the past three cups, I could calculate them all and see exactly where everyone would fit and how fair it actually would be.

But what we can see from this example is that Bedistan would be ranked ahead of Liverpool England, which from my point of view, is extremely fair. Liverpool England had a terrible showing at this year’s cup and definitely deserves to be lower than 2nd or 4th. Like wise, Bedistan did not look too sharp this cup and his ranking would also likely drop.

Lets take the example of Cockbill Street, who only participated in one cup, but had a ranking of 43, their score would be equal to 43.

My largest concern is for newbies though. Many fine RPers missed out on the cup (Cockbill Street, Iansisle, New Montreal States, Warnocks Wizards and a few others whose names can't come to mind) and with the system that is set up, they will have a very difficult, if not impossible time of making the cup. According to the KPB rankings, Cockbill Street is the highest ranked newbie and he has a rank of 59. Only one person made the cup this year with a ranking lower than that, and that was NASTIC2 with 60.

As I previously mentioned in another thread, this is, or at least it was a Game of Chance. The challenge lies in finding a system that is at the same time realistic. while preserving the lottery-like fashion this game should be run. I believe the system of weighted scores above could be successful in accomplishing that, and if anyone has the rankings for the last three cups, could you please hook me up with them because I am interested in trying it out.

-------------------------------------------------
As a side note:
The fact that both GZ and ORD have the two best records in the tournament does give cause for concern. I'm not directly accusing them of cheating or rigging the results, but this situation does shed light upon how easy it could be to manipulate the results. If the WCC would like to get off their ass and do something constructive for once and actually pass a regulation of some sort, I would like to see all the results for host nations generated by a third party in the future.

If you take the last two cups, giving full points for the previous cup and half the points for the cup before as I proposed, or if you also add in one-quarter of the points from the cup previous to that one as Audioslavia suggested, you get a better representation of where a team stands.

All righty then, let's try that.

First test (v2.1): Increase multipliers for most recent Cup to x4/x6. This has the effect of making the previous Cup worth half (x2/x3) and the one before that worth one-quarter (x1/x1.5).

Second test (v2.2): Using modifications from v2.1, remove WC8 from consideration.

The results:

[code:1:52b9a12fc3]Team v2.0 Ranking v2.1 Ranking v2.2 Ranking
Europa Brittania 1 3 3
Liverpool England 2 4 9
Lemmitania 3 1 2
Oglethorpia 4 2 1
Ravenspire 5 6 6
Giant Zucchini 6 5 4
Bedistan 7 8 10
Kingsford 8 7 5
The Belmore Family 9 9 8
Ariddia 10 10 7
Cockbill Street 59 56 55
Iansisle 65 59 57
New Montreal States 65 59 57[/code:1:52b9a12fc3]

[code:1:eb43f100bf]Team v2.0 Ranking v2.1 Ranking v2.2 Ranking
The Belmore Family 9 9 8 [/code:1:eb43f100bf]
As long as I'm not 9th!

After Extra Time (they call it Silver Goal or something like that right?):

'Silver Goal' is indeed FIFA's flavour of the month. The best way to describe it is imagining each 15-minute half of ET as a match within a match. If one team leads at extra time half time, that's it. If not, it goes to the second half of extra time. Only if it's still level then does it go to penalties.

For example, let's take the SN38-Ogle match. 1-1 at full time. I haven't seen the RP for this so I don't know how these two have RPed the extra-time period, but let's say SN38 scored in the first half of extra time, say on 96 minutes. Now, if Ogle don't equalise in the remaining nine minutes, they're flying out of the land of the spotted zucchinis as losers. But then, they do equalise. Now it's 2-2. Let's say that's the score at half-time in extra time. It goes to the second half of extra time, where in this instance Ogle make it 3-2. Alternatively, Ogle make it 3-2 before half-time in extra time, that's the score at the whistle, game over, goodbye SN38. :cry:
Very well explained. As for the RP - still working on it. I expect sometime around round 2 of WC13 it should be done. :wink:

v2.2 looks pretty good. LE falling to 9th seems about right, and it also benefits the up-and-coming new nations.

But herein lies a key point in the debate. To what extent should we allow hot new nations who are genuinely good RPers with real desire to be involved in the World Cup to emerge, while risking the emergence of a newbie idiot like Lanky dude into the upper ranks?

That's a big issue. And it leads directly into another one - RP bonus and value judgements within. Lanky dude RPs are usually about four lines long and riddled with errors - and his first one had at least two lines worth of smileys.

BUT at least he RPed (a bit), and his last RP (admittedly his only one in WCX qualifying) was better than his first two or three.

The obvious method of ensuring the emergence of nations such as Cockbill Street, Iansisle (and, looking back to WC9's hot crop of newcomers, Rejistania) and preventing the emergence of LD as a significant force is to increase RP bonuses. But then you're riddled in a mad world of value judgements, because while an Iansisle RP is clearly hugely better than an LD 'RP', how much better are the RPs of, say, TBF? Besides, multi-level RP bonuses can complicate the formula somewhat, although I've managed to incorporate them in the formula for the Cherry Cup ice hockey tournament in the following simple way:

Decrease the rank by 1 for an RP over 5 lines, and 2 for an RP over 10.

Problem with this is that length and quality are positively correlated but by no means completely so.

Anyway, I like v2.2. We'll keep that for now, I say. Though if I come up with any more ideas, I'll suggest them. I now have a copy of Beddy's KPB ranking spreadsheet (all 300+ kilobytes of it) so I can post new-look rankings as I produce ideas.

Ok, here is my complete list of rankings for both the method when we include only the two last cups, giving full points for the final cup and half points for the previous cup (Brazillico Method), and the method where one-quarter of the points are also included for the cup from three cups past ('Slaves-Brazillico System){I included my name there because I endorse it and did all the calculations :wink: }

For all calculations involving nations still in the world cup, I gave them a result of 4.5 for this edition.
For teams who didnt participate in this cup, I gave them a result of 93 for WC10.

'Slaves-Brazillico Method
1. Oglethorpia - 5.43
2. Giant Zucchini - 6.14
3. Lemmitania - 6.57
4. The Belmore Family - 7.00
5. Ravenspire - 9.00
6. Kingsford - 9.43
7. Europa Britannica - 10.00
8. Bedistan - 10.14
9. Ariddia - 11.00
10. Snub Nose 38 - 12.00
11. Audioslavia - 12.86
12. Svecia - 14.86
13. One Red Dot - 15.29
14. Liverpool England - 16.14
15. Oddslavo - 16.71
16. Antaeus Rising - 17.71
17. Aquilla - 18.57
18. Halfassedstates - 18.71
19. Dennisov - 19.71
20. Squornshelous - 20.71
21. Commerce Heights - 20.71
22. Runaway Moose - 21.14
23. Gesamtkuntswerk - 22.00
24. Dark Outcasts - 23.00
25. The Lowland Clans - 24.57
26. Busby - 24.86
27. Tanah Burung - 27.29
28. Kaze Progressa - 27.86
29. Nikea - 28.86
30. Total n Utter Insanity - 33.00
31. Haraki - 34.29
32. NASTIC 2 - 35.33
33. Timway - 36.43
34. The Weegies - 37.86
35. Eauz - 38.29
36. Spaam - 39.00
37. Rejistania - 40.00
38. Akbarland - 40.43
39. Warnocks Wizards - 40.71
40. East Spaam - 41.43
41. Cockbill Street - 43.00
42. Clearwater - 44.57
43. Sterling Ice - 45.00
44. Evisceratomatoes - 46.86
45. Lord Squall - 47.86
46. CallMeBernard - 48.00
47. Lanky Dude - 49.67
48. Iansisle - 51.00
49. Kravoli - 51.14
50. Belmorian Scandinavia - 51.33
51. Keyshona - 51.57
52. New Montreal States - 52.00
53. Zinkoland - 53.86
54. Morawny - 54.67
55. Defari - 57.14
56. Oreo Cookie - 58.00
57. Irrevilentsdom - 59.00
58. Koennerstein - 60.00
59. Gilmeecia - 60.14
60. Senoj - 61.00
61. The Most Holy Kesler - 62.00
62. Errinundera - 62.43
63. Social Cleavage 63.00
64. Monotonous Monarchy - 64.00
65. The Redavic Union - 64.29
66. Stealth Zerbert - 65.00
67. Pavesia - 66.00
68. Great Boogie - 67.00
69. Bullonien - 67.14
70. Kumba Ya - 68.00
71. Sliponia - 69.00
72. Sensual Products - 69.67
73. Dauragons - 70.00
74. SPARTEN - 71.00
75. Pure Evil - 71.29
76. Big Butts - 72.00
77. West Ariddia - 72.14
78. Hell Bovines - 72.43
79. Endray-Island - 72.86
80. Quohog - 73.29
81. A nation - 74.00
82. Demonic Beings - 74.43
83. Kramerica - 74.57
84. Kegarna - 74.86
85. Agnosticum - 75.00
86. Hokianga - 75.14
87. Wildthings Realm - 75.43
88. Jezland - 75.71
89. Nadaskor - 76.00
90. 1900s Oglethorpia - 76.00
91. One Blue Dot - 76.57
92. Davii - 77.00
93. Boa Vista - 77.00
94. The Dragonian Empire - 77.29
95. USAnia - 78.00
96. God Squad - 78.57
97. Canadian Power Trip - 79.00
98. Terranos - 79.67
99. EL CID THE HERO - 80.00
100. Auir II - 80.67
101. Kerla - 81.00
102. Jaurania - 82.00
103. Tranquillitis - 82.67
104. Kamakaza - 83.00
105. Offshore - 83.67
106. Scabara - 84.00
107. Dead Man - 85.00
108. Zeronia - 85.29
109. Soviet Haaregrad - 85.33
110. Anti-Nazis - 85.57
111. Microbrits - 86.00
112. Freedom Country - 86.00
113. Consumer Engineering - 86.29
114. Oilermania - 87.00
115. Larkinia - 88.00
116. The Arrivian Alliance - 89.00
117. Fradustanis - 90.00
118. Citta Acqua - 91.00
119. Grigala - 92.00
120. Newbies

Brazillico Method
1. Oglethorpia - 4.67
2. Giant Zucchini - 5.33
3. Lemmitania - 5.67
4. The Belmore Family - 6.00
5. Kingsford - 6.33
6. Ravenspire - 9.00
7. Ariddia - 9.67
8. Snub Nose 38 - 10.67
9. Europa Britannica - 11.00
10. Bedistan - 11.33
11. Audioslavia - 12.00
12. One Red Dot - 13.00
13. Svecia - 14.67
14. Aquilla - 15.67
15. Antaeus Rising - 16.33
16. Oddslavo - 18.33
17. Liverpool England - 18.67
18. Dennisov - 19.33
19. Halfassedstates - 19.67
20. Squornshelous - 20.00
21. Commerce Heights - 20.33
22. Dark Outcasts - 21.33
23. Gesamtkuntswerk - 22.33
24. Kaze Progressa - 22.67
25. Runaway Moose - 23.67
26. The Lowland Clans - 23.67
27. Tanah Burung - 25.33
28. Nikea - 26.33
29. Busby - 27.67
30. Total n Utter Insanity - 30.33
31. Warnocks Wizards - 34.67
32. Spaam - 35.00
33. NASTIC 2 - 35.33
34. Eauz - 36.00
35. The Weegies - 36.67
36. Haraki - 39.67
37. Rejistania - 40.00
38. Akbarland - 41.00
39. Timway - 41.67
40. Cockbill Street - 43.00
41. Sterling Ice - 45.00
42. Lord Squall - 47.00
43. CallMeBernard - 48.00
44. East Spaam - 48.33
45. Zinkoland - 48.33
46. Lanky Dude - 49.67
47. Iansisle - 51.00
48. Belmorian Scandinavia - 51.33
49. New Montreal States - 52.00
50. Clearwater - 52.00
51. Keyshona - 54.00
52. Kerla - 54.00
53. Evisceratomatoes - 54.67
54. Morawny - 54.67
55. Defari - 55.00
56. Oreo Cookie - 58.00
57. Irrevilentsdom - 59.00
58. Kravoli - 59.67
59. Koennerstein - 60.00
60. Senoj - 61.00
61. The Most Holy Kesler - 62.00
62. Social Cleavage 63.00
63. Monotonous Monarchy - 64.00
64. Stealth Zerbert - 65.00
65. Pavesia - 66.00
66. Great Boogie - 67.00
67. Gilmeecia - 67.33
68. Kumba Ya - 68.00
69. Sliponia - 69.00
70. Sensual Products - 69.67
71. Dauragons - 70.00
72. Errinundera - 70.33
73. SPARTEN - 71.00
74. Big Butts - 72.00
75. West Ariddia - 72.67
76. Hell Bovines - 73.67
77. A nation - 74.00
78. Bullonien - 74.00
79. Agnosticum - 75.00
80. The Redavic Union - 75.00
81. Nadaskor - 76.00
82. Endray-Island - 76.00
83. Davii - 77.00
84. Boa Vista - 77.00
85. Pure Evil - 77.33
86. USAnia - 78.00
87. Quohog - 78.33
88. Canadian Power Trip - 79.00
89. 1900s Oglethorpia - 79.33
90. Terranos - 79.67
91. EL CID THE HERO - 80.00
92. Auir II - 80.67
93. The Dragonian Empire - 81.00
94. Demonic Beings - 81.67
95. Jaurania - 82.00
96. Tranquillitis - 82.67
97. Kamakaza - 83.00
98. Offshore - 83.67
99. Scabara - 84.00
100. God Squad - 84.67
101. Dead Man - 85.00
102. Anti-Nazis - 85.00
103. Soviet Haaregrad - 85.33
104. Consumer Engineering - 85.67
105. Microbrits - 86.00
106. Freedom Country - 86.00
107. Zeronia - 86.33
108. Oilermania - 87.00
109. Kramerica - 87.00
110. Kegarna - 87.33
111. Hokianga - 87.67
112. Larkinia - 88.00
113. Wildthings Realm - 88.00
114. Jezland - 88.33
115. The Arrivian Alliance - 89.00
116. One Blue Dot - 89.33
117. Fradustanis - 90.00
118. Citta Acqua - 91.00
119. Grigala - 92.00
120. New Entries

There it is, they're pretty similar unless someone had a disasterous or sensational WC8. What I like about this is you can move around, but not as much as before, which is what I think everyone is trying to go for here.

some stuff i might have tried to have done but got bored halfway through

I think the Brazillico system is nicer, if only because its simpler. The added quarter doesnt really matter that much. In any case, in eight years (the time between WC8 and WC10) a nation's first eleven is most probably going to be entirely different anyway, so their rank eight years ago wouldnt have any effect. Look at England's Italia 90 side and their France '98 side:

'90 (5-3-2)
Shilton
Parker
Wright
Walker
Pearce
Butcher
Barnes (?)
Gasgoine
Platt
Waddle
Lineker

'98 (3-5-2)
Seaman
Neville
Campbell
Southgate
Ince
Beckham
Anderton
Le Saux
Scholes
Owen
Shearer

completely different tactics, players, and the team had gone through 4 management changes since then: Robson - Taylor - Venables - Hoddle. Its worth noting that theyve had two different managers since then in Keegan and Goran-Eriksson.

Basically, as Scotland have shown during their rapid five-year plummet from 18th to 60th, and Wales have shown by rising from 100th to around 40th in half that time: Rankings, and team quality, change considerably over four-eight years,

In my opinion its not about the winning, nor is it about the taking part. Its about the roleplaying, and the interaction between nations which is 500 times better and friendlier than saying 'i n00k j00'

I agree, the Brazillico system is looking pretty good...

Funny, I thought this was the WC10 Scores and Tables thread not the chat about ranking systems thread.

If the WCC would like to get off their ass and do something constructive for once and actually pass a regulation of some sort, I would like to see all the results for host nations generated by a third party in the future.

Maybe if you'd been around then you'd know that results aren't going to be generated by hosts from WC12 on. :wink:

Only AS has objected to me doing it because he thinks I hate him...actually I think someone else did as well, but I can't remember who...

to be fair tnui, you big paranoid git :p, i didnt want the results to solely be generated by you because if something happens to you then theres no contingency plan.

imo we need to get three or four people who are willing to, and know how to, generate results

and ive no problem with you generating resultsish..

4. The Belmore Family
4. The Belmore Family

I think you might have got something wrong....

I agree, the Brazillico system is looking pretty good...
But is 'old-style' rank necessarily indicative of overall team performance in that Cup? Should the entire ranking system for those who qualify be based on those 3-7 matches each Cup? :?

I agree, the Brazillico system is looking pretty good...
But is 'old-style' rank necessarily indicative of overall team performance in that Cup? Should the entire ranking system for those who qualify be based on those 3-7 matches each Cup? :?

Yes, I honestly think it should. Outside tourneys are besides the point, your rank in RL doesn't change after a friendly (which is what all outside tournaments are, no matter how vicious the RPing gets).

You *might* add a plain experience bonus for any team that plays in an outside tourney between world cups. I just skimmed through the formulae so I'm not going to throw out any numbers...

(and I know I'm not on the WCC, so this means nothing unless someone gets behind it)

I agree, the Brazillico system is looking pretty good...
But is 'old-style' rank necessarily indicative of overall team performance in that Cup? Should the entire ranking system for those who qualify be based on those 3-7 matches each Cup? :?

Yes, I honestly think it should. Outside tourneys are besides the point, your rank in RL doesn't change after a friendly (which is what all outside tournaments are, no matter how vicious the RPing gets).

You *might* add a plain experience bonus for any team that plays in an outside tourney between world cups. I just skimmed through the formulae so I'm not going to throw out any numbers...

(and I know I'm not on the WCC, so this means nothing unless someone gets behind it)

And a multi-post. Look down for a serious opinion!

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To TBF - You've been consistantly into the second round for the last three cups and you're guarenteed to finish 8th or above in this cup, why wouldn't you be highly ranked?

To CH - Personally, I think the "old-style rank" is the best way to fairly judge how a team is doing at a certain point in time. We could include qualifying into these rankings, but since many of these matches are played against unranked and other low-level teams, I think its best just the teams who do not make the cup be ranked upon this.

To NMS - I would like to see rankings be affected by other matches, such as the Harmony Cup. Pretty much everyone at the Harmony Cup are solid RPers, and participating at an event like that should give nations a boost to their rankings. The biggest problem with something like that is if you get some wack-job who makes his own little tournament, fixes the results and claims he's now the best in the world. If we could get some way for the WCC to sanction events such as the Harmony Cup and find a way to give bonuses to the participants, while being fair to those who do not compete, I'd be all for the idea.

<edit>Just as a thought on how this could be run, participants for the Harmony Cup could be selected on an invitational basis by a committee of people. The criteria for selection would be overall RP quality during the WC qualifiers, with a field of 8 or 10 could being selected
If the ranking system that I've been toying with is used, we could give bonuses like -1 for every win, -0.5 for a tie and -2 if you win the championship from the total score.

This would give teams an opportunity to increase their rank by 1 to 5 spots, without messing with any of the contender's rankings.

Of course, this is just a suggestion, and for something like this to fly I would need the support of the WCC and Tranquillitis. The Harmony Cup is a well-run event and by doing this we'd be promoting quality RPers and increasing the quality of this game.

To NMS - I would like to see rankings be affected by other matches, such as the Harmony Cup. Pretty much everyone at the Harmony Cup are solid RPers, and participating at an event like that should give nations a boost to their rankings. The biggest problem with something like that is if you get some wack-job who makes his own little tournament, fixes the results and claims he's now the best in the world. If we could get some way for the WCC to sanction events such as the Harmony Cup and find a way to give bonuses to the participants, while being fair to those who do not compete, I'd be all for the idea.

Herein lies the problem (a purely hypothetical situation):

Suppose you beat me out for the 3rd qualifying spot in our group (assume we each beat each other 1-0 in qualifiers). You get to advance to the round of 32; I go play in an honest, WCC-sanctioned Cup of Harmony (fielding some pretty strong/active nations). You go 0-3 in your group, I steamroll my opposition on my way to bringing the Cup home.

Who is now a "better" nation, the washout of the round of 32 or the Harmony Cup champ? Who would you bet on in a friendly between the two at some neutral site?

EDIT: I think it would be great if this could be made to work out...although I believe that to be a very big if. To test it out as a formula, I'd like to challenge a very good team that hasn't gone far this tourney (my newfound national rivals Bedistan come to mind) just to test the system out on:

1) An established power and
2) An active, mid-class newcomer

Brazillico (or some other WCC member) could generate the results and see how they would fit into these formulae. The games themselves would be a home-and-away series, first to be in Bedistan, 2nd game in NMS (reversing the order of WCX).

OOC - Did you catch the edit?

This is how each team in the Harmony Cup would do if they ran the table and won every match (an unlikely scenario, but it could happen).

Warnocks Wizards 31-->29 (+2)
Spaam 32-->29 (+3)
Rejistania 37-->31 (+6)
Timway 39-->31 (+8 )
Cockbill Street 40-->32 (+8 )
Iansisle 47-->40 (+7)
New Montreal States 49-->41 (+8 )
Evisceratomatoes 53-->42 (+11)
Tranquillitis 96-->79 (+17)

The reason the higher ranked teams' (Warnocks Wizards, Spaam) ranking increase only marginally is because there is a very large gap in points between 29th and 31st. Still, I think we can all agree that this is better than nothing.

To CH - Personally, I think the "old-style rank" is the best way to fairly judge how a team is doing at a certain point in time. We could include qualifying into these rankings, but since many of these matches are played against unranked and other low-level teams, I think its best just the teams who do not make the cup be ranked upon this.
If you barely qualify and then lose all three first-round games by large margins, do you *really* deserve to be 32nd? Are the results of 3 games really enough to determine the rankings of 16 teams playing against different opponents?

<edit>Just as a thought on how this could be run, participants for the Harmony Cup could be selected on an invitational basis by a committee of people. The criteria for selection would be overall RP quality during the WC qualifiers, with a field of 8 or 10 could being selected
If the ranking system that I've been toying with is used, we could give bonuses like -1 for every win, -0.5 for a tie and -2 if you win the championship from the total score.

This would give teams an opportunity to increase their rank by 1 to 5 spots, without messing with any of the contender's rankings.

Of course, this is just a suggestion, and for something like this to fly I would need the support of the WCC and Tranquillitis. The Harmony Cup is a well-run event and by doing this we'd be promoting quality RPers and increasing the quality of this game.

Well, the Harmony Cup host changes for each installment. Tanah Burung came up with the idea, then Warnocks Wizards hosted the last one. I proposed to host this one and no one else really laid claim to it so hosting fell to me. Basically, the host just looks through the RP thread and picks out RPers that look like they know what they are doing, and write good RPs. At least that's how I did it. So for hosting, you wouldn't need my support as the host changes each time.

I wouldn't mind the Harmony Cup counting for ranks. For teams like Cockbill Street and NMS, this would be a good way to reward roleplaying, as they can jump up above some of the non-roleplaying nations. Although I think a rule would have to be enforced about roleplaying since the Harmony Cup is so dependent on it. I know in this installment, there are about 4 or 5 nations not posting anything, so I think that perhaps only roleplaying nations in the Harmony Cup itself should benefit from any rank bonus.

My idea is that we have a rotating schedule of WCC-sanctioned events. Just as IRL there is a four-year rotating schedule (a World Cup every even-numbered non leap year, a European Championship every leap year, and I think the Copa America is played every two or four years), I suggest we have a schedule of that type. I suggest we use the approximation of one RL month = two NS years, so we have a WC every two months. This fits in with qualifying lasting two years IRL and a tournament lasting one month in NS.

The best way to do this is to ensure most (though not necessarily all) of the good RPers are in one of the two main football regions, FIFA and Heartland. These can then act as the equivalents of Europe and the Americas, and have their own tournaments. We can run these as sixteen teams, four groups of four and top two to the quarter-finals - that would take six matchdays. We can then hold invitational tournaments to nations who consistently RP, perhaps two in a two-month rotational schedule: the existing Harmony Cup (or whatever it is now known as) to take place concurrently with the World Cup finals, and another tournament perhaps with a name referring a great ex-nation (perhaps revive the Frosty Cup name used for the first Harmony Cup-type event). Each could involve 16 invited nations, again needing six matchdays. Alternatively, instead of (or in conjunction with) an invitational cup of this sort, a second idea would be a Colony Cup, involving puppet nations. In this instance I would recommend it did not count for ranking points, as it would make it quite likely for puppets to become better than their masters and hence increasing the risk of Spaamgate-style incidents in the future.

A possible schedule:

MONTH 1
1st-6th: FIFA Championships
15th-20th: Heartland Championships
22nd-28th: Colony Cup and/or Frosty Cup
MONTH 2:
1st-14th (assuming the 12 groups of eight plan currently in vogue, this length may vary): World Cup qualifying
22nd-27th: Harmony Cup
22nd-28th: World Cup finals

As for rankings: I suggest that these regional championships count, but for less than the World Cup. A possible means of modifying the KPB system: rankings to be tracked back through the last two cycles (eight years' worth) with the following multipliers:

x1 for the FIFA and Heartland Championships
x1.25 for the Frosty/Harmony Cups (this increased multiplier is meant as an RP incentive)
x1.5 for WC qualifying
x2 for WC finals
x2 for the last cycle; so for instance the last WC finals would count x4.

So (for instance) assume the cycle were to begin after WC12. The first FIFA Championships take place afterwards, followed by the first Heartland Championships, and so on.

Now, after WC12 is complete, the following multipliers would count in the KPB system:

x1.5 for WC11 qualifying
x2 for WC11 finals
x2 for FIFA/Heartland Championship I
x2.5 for the last Frosty/Harmony Cups
x3 for WC12 qualifying
x4 for WC12 finals

After WC13 this would change to:

x1 for FIFA/Heartland Championship I
x1.25 for the Harmony Cup during WC12, and the Frosty Cup before WC12
x1.5 for WC12 qualifying
x2 for WC12 finals
x2 for FIFA/Heartland Championship II
x2.5 for the Harmony Cup during WC13, and the Frosty Cup before WC13
x3 for WC13 qualifying
x4 for WC13 finals

Before you ask; yes, this is easily done. It's literally a matter of adding new columns to the existing spreadsheet used for KPB ranking calculations and changing some of the cell references accordingly.

thats all well and good KP, but to be honest i think a lot of people have gone off the idea of the KPB ranking system since Brazillico threw his chilli bat into the ring

ive been thinking about having some kind of regional championship for a while now, but if we do manage to get one going then i dont think we should try and cram it into a month. I say we have one month for World Cups, and two weeks-one month for regional cups.

I mean, whats the rush?

In WC9 EB and Rav said something like 'oh, were over-running, so were not gonna TG the first round results'.

Over-running? what does it matter? surely the more in-depth a world cup, the better? I would have the excitement lay in the world cup itself, not the rankings you get at the end.

thats why World Cup 5 was so good (although i was only there for the qualifiers :/) because the results were telegrammed during the qualifiers as well as the cup itself. WC5 was the only time ive properly been 'on edge' over my team in qualifying, which i put down to the longer gaps between games. If we have 5-team groups like irl, it'll only take eight matchdays, which would be 16 days if the results were TG'd. Thats as long as the qualifiers for World Cup 10.

As for any kind of Heartland/FIFA championships, i think that would work if we run it for two weeks after the end of the world cup (we wouldnt need to TG results for the qualifiers or the first round, just the quarters/semis/final) which would be, if we have groups of 5, 8 days for the qualifiers, 3 for the first round, and 6 for the knockout stages, which is about 2 and a half weeks. The rankings for this would be worth half as much as the world cup rankings (because its not as important, and i dont think we want to be shaking the rankings up too much with a 2-week tournament) so if you get to the semi-final on 7 points, youd only get 3.5 added onto your rank score, which would take a 25th ranked team to about 14th, which i think is ok.

That said, i think its better to put-off having a regional champs until later, when weve got the ranking system and scoring system re-worked again.

Yes I like the idea KP but I have a few ammendments:

Instead of months just have it as a specified amount of days.

FIFA
There are currently 22 teams in FIFA so we would need 1 member added so we can then have.... 2 hosts we could do a 7 groups with 3 teams preliminary round then let 2 from each group in with 16 teams in the finals.

The Heartlands
This could be mayhem trying to organise a heartlands competition with 138 nations so either there would have to be a massive qualification (23 groups with 6 teams) or just the top 32 footballing nations taking part. I will write a revised shedule expecting 32 teams to take part.

Colony Cup
This infact could be a substitute for puppets instead of the WC. I think there are about 32 football puppets out there.

4 Nations and Friendlies
Well, I had to mention it. I belive that it can only be good to have more teams running friendlies and 4 nations championships. I think that any football match or competion should be recorded in rankings such as they are in RL FIFA. It would give us a really cool realistic rank for every team


Schedule
Days 1-20 The Heartand Championships
Days 3-20 FIFA Championships
Days 21-28 Break/4 Nation Championships/Friendlies
Days 21-41 Champions League
Days 21-35 World Cup Qualification
Days 35-43 Break/4 Nation Championships/Friendlies
Days 44-58 World Cup/Colony Cup
Then back to the start

Rankings(From the end of WC15 on the assumption this cycle began at WC12)
x0.10 for 4 Nations Championships 4
x0.20 for 4 Nations Championships 5
x0.25 for WC13 Qualification
x0.30 for Friendlies in the last cycle
x0.40 for 4 nation Championships 6
x0.50 for WC13 Finals
x0.50 for FIFA Championships 2
x0.65 for The Heatland Championships 2
x0.80 for 4 nation Championship 7
x1.00 for WC14 Qualification
x1.00 for FIFA Championships 3
x1.30 for The Heartlands Championships 3
x1.35 for WC14 Finals
x1.50 for FIFA Championships 4
x1.95 for The Heartlands Championships 4
x2.50 for WC15 Qualification
x3.00 for WC15 Finals

Governing Body
If this system were to be implemented then just the hosts of the WC would be inadequete therefor we propose a 10 nation council to be elected by all teams entering the WC each cycle.

Well what about nations like myself, Snub Nose 38, Runaway Moose etc. (I'm sure there are others) who are in regions with their mates from which they don't want to move. We can't play in the FIFA or the Heartland Championships, so we will have fewer chances to gain ranking points (unless of course we make a third championship with The Rest).

Well what about nations like myself, Snub Nose 38, Runaway Moose etc. (I'm sure there are others) who are in regions with their mates from which they don't want to move. We can't play in the FIFA or the Heartland Championships, so we will have fewer chances to gain ranking points (unless of course we make a third championship with The Rest).

Aye, I'd be included with those. Perhaps I could forfeit one of my two nations' places in the FIFA Championship and play Bedistan there instead?

But then, what about other tournaments, like, for example, me and Oglethorpia had talked about an invitation tournament of 32 teams, and if we set a schedule in stone, would we have to wait until the next time around?

Also, if you're in a footballing region (The Emerald Heights is almost one, I'd wager), you'd be left out, by default, of the Heartland, FIFA, and Colony Cup, and thus only allowed to play in the 4 Nations, Friendlies, and World Cups.

One more thing, to echo Audioslavia, what if someone goes away for the weekend, or is too overloaded with work and such, that they can't get the results up/sent out in time? That throws the whole schedule off.

So then, for my two cents, if we were to set a schedule, we'd need to add some cushion days after each event, just in case, and also we'd need a system where we'd be able to incoporate other tournaments, such as the OK Invitational (Oglethorpia & Kingsford), or some sort of Emerald Heights tournament, or others and such.

I guess what I'm saying is that dates and a schedule aren't a good idea for the World Cup and the like. I say just let it happen as it happens, and take into account for ranking everything that is WCC sanctioned, which will happen as it happens.

Hey, wait a minute, isn't this the score thread?

yes :p

will someone read my post at the top of the page? we dont need too many tournaments and we DEFINATLEY (spelled wrong i know) do NOT need a 'schedule'

Yes, very intersting rankings discussion, but leave that to the rankings thread. Isn't there also a WC chat thread to discuss this stuff? Please don;t clog up the scores thread. Thank you for your attention. Now get out before I pelt you all over with bullets from my tommy gun (evil laughter, bright flashes of lightning and loud peals of thunder while standing in front of a large window resembling those in a haunted castle)

Results for Quarterfinals matches

After Full Time:
Giant Zucchini 2 Antaeus Rising 1
Oglethorpia 0 Ariddia 1
One Red Dot 2 Kingsford 2
The Belmore Family 0 Lemmitania 1

After Silver Goal:
One Red Dot 3 Kingsford 2

After Penalty Shootout:
-

*rubs hands together* Alright, considering I'm ready for a serious hosting bid for WC12, might as well dive into this now *breathes* *begins* *deletes everything he wrote* *rewrites*

As it looks right now, I think you guys may have set this up a weebit to exclusive to the nations who are mad footballers in NS. A good way to negate and still keep all the cool stuff suggested here is: A newbie qualifier/RP evaluater. We have a tournament composed solely of newbies, and they are each given a ranking bonus based on how well they do in the tournament, and that is injected into the WC ranking formulator. It could work along the lines of another WCC sponsored event as already mentoined, giving the newbies who want to RP there WC run a better chance at becoming something other than a wallowing lowly ranked nation.

Hmm...

Allowing nations in the Cup based on their performance in a regional championship doesn't quite seem fair. For example, only Bedistan or I could make it into the WC, since we're the only teams in Paripana. :P
Why not have all of the teams play (x) matches against other teams in their region (if a region has less than (x) nations participating, they can be grouped with other regions to form a 'region' of at least (x) teams), and then have the World Cup be played between the teams with the 30 best records and the hosts?
A Colony Cup does sound like a good idea.
Having more competitions would also allow nations that haven't hosted before to host a smaller event before hosting the WC.

Yeah, I'd say it's pretty much suicide, going up against the hosts.. maybe it's just a coincidence, but this is the first time in WC history that both hosts have made it into the final four. Lookout, Ariddia and Lemmy.

EVERYONE GET THE HELL OUT OF THE SCORES THREAD!!!!!!!

That's how it's done ORD. The rest of the posts I see in here best be from the host...or else. :twisted:

Rankings Chat (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=95968&start=80)
Inane Chat (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=90716&start=420)

Bonus Ranking Points:
New Montreal States +10
Aquilla +50
Liverpool England +10
Audioslavia +10
Bedistan +10
Kaze Progressa +10
Lemmitania +10
Commerce Heights +10
The Belmore Family +20
Kingsford +10
Tranquillitis +10

OOC - Did you catch the edit?


Nope, not until just now. Sorry.

The best way to do this is to ensure most (though not necessarily all) of the good RPers are in one of the two main football regions, FIFA and Heartland.

I think that punishes those who us who do the occaisional serious Military RP + are located in a region with their Military allies. You could open those regional cups to select out-of-regioners who RP actively (hint hint)...nobody should be forced to switch regions just to play soccer.

And finally, if you go ahead with the 4 nation tourneys, I'd like to host one.

I like that Brazillico Method

guess why...

Yeah, I'd say it's pretty much suicide, going up against the hosts.. maybe it's just a coincidence, but this is the first time in WC history that both hosts have made it into the final four. Lookout, Ariddia and Lemmy.

Didn't the 2 hosts play each other in the final of the last WC?

Yeah, I'd say it's pretty much suicide, going up against the hosts.. maybe it's just a coincidence, but this is the first time in WC history that both hosts have made it into the final four. Lookout, Ariddia and Lemmy.

Didn't the 2 hosts play each other in the final of the last WC?
Yes. But I really doubt this one, considering ORD's rank. I'm going to protest the results if its an ORD-GZ final - for you see, Raven and EB were both in the top 10, ORD's 29th.

Why am I a doomed team?

PS I DON'T like the regional championship thingies, why can't we do it like we always have??

Why am I a doomed team?

PS I DON'T like the regional championship thingies, why can't we do it like we always have??
I DO NO LIKE THE IDEA OF A MULTITUDE OF INTERWOVEN, CHOREOGRAPHED, DIS-SIMILAR FOOTBALL TOURNAMENTS - EACH WITH DIFFERENT RULES AND PREREQUISITES - AND ALL EFFECTING EACH OTHER.

IT'S TOO COMPLICATED. IT'S TOO MUCH. IT WILL KILL THE WORLD CUP COMPETITION - AT LEAST FOR MANY OF US. WHAT WE HAVE IS GOOD. I WILL NOT BE ABLE TO KEEP UP WITH THAT MANY - AND I'LL HAVE TO STOP. I THINK THAT WILL BE TRUE FOR MANY OF US.

THE WAY IT IS NOW, I CAN COMPETE IN WC, AND A COUPLE TIMES IN GESFL, AND THE FACT THAT I DON"T COMPETE IN THE OTHERS DOESN"T HURT. LINKING THEM ALL TOGETHER WOULD HURT THE RANKINGS OF THOSE WHO JUST CANNOT DO THEM ALL.

Also - please move this discussion to discussion thread.

So why am I a doomed team?

I DO NO LIKE THE IDEA OF A MULTITUDE OF INTERWOVEN, CHOREOGRAPHED, DIS-SIMILAR FOOTBALL TOURNAMENTS - EACH WITH DIFFERENT RULES AND PREREQUISITES - AND ALL EFFECTING EACH OTHER.

IT'S TOO COMPLICATED. IT'S TOO MUCH. IT WILL KILL THE WORLD CUP COMPETITION - AT LEAST FOR MANY OF US. WHAT WE HAVE IS GOOD. I WILL NOT BE ABLE TO KEEP UP WITH THAT MANY - AND I'LL HAVE TO STOP. I THINK THAT WILL BE TRUE FOR MANY OF US.

THE WAY IT IS NOW, I CAN COMPETE IN WC, AND A COUPLE TIMES IN GESFL, AND THE FACT THAT I DON"T COMPETE IN THE OTHERS DOESN"T HURT. LINKING THEM ALL TOGETHER WOULD HURT THE RANKINGS OF THOSE WHO JUST CANNOT DO THEM ALL.

Also - please move this discussion to discussion thread.

As usual, Snubby is correct. The NS world is not structured in such a way that the WC can reasonably be preceded by "regional" tournaments. This would in all likelihood mean an end to the WC as we know it; unless a different plan is adopted than those so far suggested, many long-time participants would be adversely affected.

The only matches that should have any effect on a nation's WC ranking, are WC matches. If you consider that unrealistic, just keep in mind that more nations have participated in the ten NS WCs than exist in the entire real world. What's more, expanding the "qualification" into regional tourneys (or however it would end up being done) would mean ten times as many non-RPing, non-participating "participants." Why would we want that?

I haven't been following WC10, as some of you may have noticed. So if I've missed some of the nuance of the discussion, I apologize. My point is, the WC has been and should continue to be a chance to have fun RPing. It's not actually a world-encompassing competition.

World Cup X Semi-final results:

Giant Zucchini - 2
Ariddia - 1

One Red Dot - 0
Lemmitania - 1

the less Lemmy participates, the better his team does...

Ariddia got to the semis? crap, ive got to re-do their team on SWONS now :( they used to be about as good as Dark Outcasts :p

So why am I a doomed team?

So why am I a doomed team?

EVERYONE GET THE HELL OUT OF THE SCORES THREAD!!!!!!!(only bigger and in red)

Bang goes the illogical ORD run, but GZ reaches the final. Not that we can call THAT one a fix - Ariddia aren't the hyperwoopernoodlepower they used to be. :D

Seriously, the complaints about results are silly, IMO. For the first SEVEN Cups, no host reached the final. In the first seven RL Cups, the hosts were victorious twice (Uruguay 1930, Italy 1934) and beaten finalists once (Brazil 1950). Furthermore, in the last ten Cups (matching up to NS history), the hosts have had the following record:

2002: Japan reached second round, South Korea reached semi-finals (and an interesting aside: South Korea's pre-WC ranking was 40th, 11 places below ORD's)
1998: France won
1994: USA reached second round
1990: Italy reached semi-finals (and lost on penalties to the defending champions)
1986: Mexico reached second round (?)
1982: Spain reached second round (which at that time was a group of 3)
1978: Argentina won
1974: W. Germany won
1970: Mexico reached quarter-finals (?)
1966: England won

So that's four victorious hosts and two more beaten semi-finalists. Compare that to one winner, two beaten finalists and some semi-finalists not all of which I know about from the NS world. Home advantage, if anything, is stronger IRL.

the less Lemmy participates, the better his team does...


I've been lamenting that myself.

For reference:
WC1: Ariddia reached second round
WC2: Alasdair I Frosticus reached second round
WC3: TnUI reached second round
WC4: Brazillico reached semifinals (and lost to soon-to-be champions Dennisov)
WC5: TB reached quarterfinals
WC6: Spaam reached quarterfinals (too lazy to look at Kingsford)
WC7: Lemmitania reached first round (:P), Audioslavia reached second round
WC8: Oglethorpia reached second round, Bedistan reached final
WC9: EB won final over Ravenspire
WC10: ORD reached semifinal, GZ reached final (result unknown)

WC7: Lemmitania reached first round (:P)

That would be my doing :D

(too lazy to look at Kingsford)


Kingsford made it past group stages and into the Sweet 16 for the first time in national history during World Cup 6. coincidentally, the OOC me was in New Mexico hiking at the time and didn't realize of this until after I got back and apparently Lemmitania = Kingsford & Spaam.. hmm..

Stop Chatting in the Scores thread

The Rankings Chat Thread (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=95968&start=80)

The Sports Chat Thread (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=90716&start=420)

Can I stop being a doomed team please now all holy, all wise and all powerful Total n Utter Insanity (God of Football)

Why am I a doomed team?

PS I DON'T like the regional championship thingies, why can't we do it like we always have??

You are doomed because you posted something unrelated to the scores after TnUI told everyone to take the ranking stuff elsewhere.

When are finals scores being posted up?

Oh.

World Cup 10 finally comes to a close.

3rd Placing Results

One Red Dot 0 Ariddia 2


Grand Finals

Giant Zucchini 1 Lemmitania 2



Congratulations to Lemmitania for winning their first ever cup!

Final rankings for the Top 32 nations (using the usual system):
[code:1:85ee0ab536]Rk Nations P W D L F A GD Pts Q/E

01 Lemmitania (8) 7 6 1 0 12 6 +6 19 Qlf
02 Giant Zucchini (7) 7 6 0 1 17 6 +11 18 Qlf
03 Ariddia (20) 7 5 1 1 11 5 +6 16 Qlf
04 One Red Dot (29) 7 4 1 2 14 11 +3 13 Qlf
05 Anataeus Rising (40) 5 4 0 1 12 8 +4 9 Eli
06 Kingsford (10) 5 4 0 2 9 6 +3 9 Eli
07 The Belmore Family (9) 5 4 0 1 6 4 +2 9 Eli
08 Oglethorpia (5) 5 4 0 1 7 6 +1 9 Eli
09 Audioslavia (18) 4 2 0 2 5 3 +2 6 Eli
10 Aquilla (27) 4 2 0 2 8 7 +1 6 Eli
11 Svecia (22) 4 2 0 2 5 5 0 6 Eli
12 Ravenspire (3) 4 1 2 1 7 7 0 5 Eli
13 Snub Nose 38 (6) 4 1 2 1 6 6 0 5 Eli
14 The Lowland Clans (43) 4 1 1 2 7 5 +2 4 Eli
15 Bedistan (4) 4 1 1 2 6 5 +1 4 Eli
16 Europa Britannia (1) 4 1 1 2 7 7 0 4 Eli
17 Oddslavo (21) 3 1 1 1 4 4 0 4 Eli
18 Dark Outcasts (28) 3 1 1 1 2 2 0 4 Eli
19 Commerce Heights (23) 3 1 1 1 3 5 -2 4 Eli
20 Halfassedstates (19) 3 1 0 2 4 5 -1 3 Eli
21 Kaze Progressa (26) 3 1 0 2 5 7 -2 3 Eli
22 Dennisov (14) 3 1 0 2 4 6 -2 3 Eli
23 NASTIC 2 (60) 3 1 0 2 3 6 -3 3 Eli
24 Squornshelous (12) 3 1 0 2 2 5 -3 3 Eli
24 Nikea (31) 3 1 0 2 2 5 -3 3 Eli
26 Tanah Burung (24) 3 1 0 2 3 7 -4 3 Eli
27 Liverpool England (2) 3 0 2 1 2 4 -2 2 Eli
28 Gesamtkuntswerk (11) 3 0 2 1 4 7 -3 2 Eli
29 Runaway Moose (13) 3 0 2 1 1 4 -3 2 Eli
30 The Weegies (50) 3 0 1 2 2 5 -3 1 Eli
31 Total n Utter Insanity (29) 3 0 0 3 0 3 -3 0 Eli
32 Eauz (44) 3 0 0 3 1 9 -8 0 Eli[/code:1:85ee0ab536]

As per usual ORDMERUI, for the final time this cup (and after a strange long absence), has provided a report for subjectively useless statistics concerning the top 32.

Top 5 Increase in rankings:
NASTIC 2 (60-23, +37), Antaeus Rising (40-5, +35), The Lowland Clans (43-14, 29), One Red Dot (29-4, +25), The Weegies (50-30, +20)
Bottom 5 Increase in rankings:
The Belmore Family (9-7, +2), Commerce Heights (23-19, +4), Oddslavo (21-17, +4), Kingsford (10-6, +4), Kaze Progressa (26-21, +5), Giant Zucchini (7-2, +5)
Top 5 Decrease in rankings:
Liverpool England (2-27, -25), Gesamtkuntswerk (11-28, -17), Runaway Moose (13-29, -16), Europa Brittania (1-16, -15), Squornshelous (12-24, -12)

Of the Top 4, 2 nations (Ariddia, GZ) have 10 World Cups worth if experience.

Europa Brittania is the champion with the highest fall in rankings: from 1 to 16 (-15). The next highest fall is WC4 Champion Dennisov: from 1 to 14 (-13).

This is the second time that both co-hosts have made it to the Top 4. The first was in WC9 where both co-hosts made it to the finals (EB and LE).

Of the Top 4, GZ is the only one who have not made it to the group stage once (in WC6)

The following nations have not experienced a fall in rankings:
Aquilla (52-45-36-27-10)
Kaze Progressa (82-59-26-21)

The first time two nations who were in the finals and never qualified in the previous World Cup was in WC4. The champion, Dennisov, was 43rd before that and the runner-up, Jurassica, was 35th before that.

Every single World Cup champion that signed up for the next cup qualified for that World Cup.

So far, all the world cup champions have only 2 words of less in their nation name. Does that mean that nations like The Belmore Family and Total n Utter Insanity don't stand a chance? Does that also mean I don't stand a chance either?

Thanks for participating in WC10. See you in Total n Utter Insanity & Warnocks Wizards for WC11 (who are by the way, 31st and 35th respectively).

Congratulations Lemmy!

Congratulations to Lemmitania for winning their first ever cup!

Hear hear! :D

Top 5 Decrease in rankings:
Liverpool England (2-27, -25), Gesamtkuntswerk (11-28, -17), Runaway Moose (13-29, -16), Europa Brittania (1-16, -15), Squornshelous (12-24, -12)

Ack, just barely avoided that list (4-15, -11).

Europa Brittania is the champion with the highest fall in rankings: from 1 to 16 (-15). The next highest fall is WC4 Champion Dennisov: from 1 to 14 (-13).

Didn't Errinundera (WC7 champs) fall to 15th after WC8? That would be higher than Dennisov's fall.

The following nations have not experienced a fall in rankings:
Aquilla (52-45-36-27-10)
Kaze Progressa (82-59-26-21)

:shock: Tenth? Talk about your freak upsets. :shock:

With the World Cup over you can chat till your hearts are content.

...and point out all of ORDs mistakes.

The following nations have not experienced a fall in rankings:
Aquilla (52-45-36-27-10)
Kaze Progressa (82-59-26-21)
The Commerce Heights Ministry of Statistically Statistical Statistics is annoyed with the One Red Dot Ministry of Endless Remarks and Useless Information's performance in listing this vital statistic. CHMSSS would like to add:
Commerce Heights (54-23-23-19)
A move from 23 to 23 cannot be considered a fall in rankings, and any implication that it can will not be tolerated by this ministry. (;))

EDIT: The co-hosts in WC9 were EB and Ravenspire, not EB and LE.

Thanks for the congratulations. Those should rightly be directed to Coach Mickelson and his squad.

Just as a point of reference... I never received a TG of the score to the final match. Otherwise, I'd have written more than the intro to the commentary by now. Now that the score's been announced, I don't know that I'll bother.

So you'll never know who the mystery guest was to have been.

Well, overall it's been a great experience hosting this World Cup and despite all it's odd, queer, grotesque errors and mistakes and mess ups I think it has been a relatively successful Cup. Thank you all for participating and don't forget to sign up for WC 11!

"There are no double posts on these forums, never. They're not even within 100 miles of these forums. They are not in any place. They hold no place on these forums. This is an illusion ... they are trying to sell to the others an illusion. They are nowhere near the forums..they are lost in the desert...they can not read a compass...they are retarded. They are not in the forums. They are not in control of any forums. I tell you this. It is all a lie. They lie. It is a hollywood movie. You do not believe them. My feelings - as usual - we will slaughter them all. Their stomachs will be roasted in hell at the hands of the WCC. They're coming to surrender or be burned in their tanks. No I am not scared, and neither should you be! We are not afraid of the double posts. They are stupid. They are stupid" (dramatic pause) "and they are condemned. The double posts, they always depend on a method what I call ... stupid, silly. All I ask is check yourself. Do not in fact repeat their lies. I can say, and I am responsible for what I am saying, that they have started to commit suicide under the firewalls of computers all over the world. We will encourage them to commit more suicides quickly. I can assure you that those villains will recognize, will discover in appropriate time in the future how stupid they are and how they are pretending things which have never taken place. Let the double posting infidels bask in their illusion, because we will behead them all. We will kill them all........most of them. I triple guarantee you, there are no double posts on these forums. We have given them a sour taste, for they are not worth an old shoe, and they are full of farts. NO, We have retaken the forums. There are NO double posts there. I will take you there and show you. IN ONE HOUR!"

The following nations have not experienced a fall in rankings:
Aquilla (52-45-36-27-10)
Kaze Progressa (82-59-26-21)


Nikea (Unranked-71-44-31-24)

I think the ORDMERUI missed a lot of people who have never dropped in rank.

The ORDMERUI is not a very efficient organisation, like all other government organisations. Just look at our economy: it's imploded, we can't even pay our President.

I'm sure you'll find that Oglethorpia's own Association of Futebol/Football is much worse.

At least everyone get's decent pay :wink:

:shock: Tenth? Talk about your freak upsets. :shock:

You did qualify on your first cup remember.

:shock: Tenth? Talk about your freak upsets. :shock:

You did qualify on your first cup remember.
Mumbles something about beating TBF by a couple of points..,

The Brazillico Historical Society for Thread Preservation (BHSTP) has deemed this thread eligable for BUMPAGE!