NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2230312#2230312

this is the new link, please keep all OOC discussion here.

Do you also sell some of these? We would be interested in buying a few for our 250 commando troops (please don't laugh about the numbers of commando troops we have, we know we are a small nation :( ).

{Tag; For Intelligence Purposes}

wonders if it will be as field reliable as the early m-16s.

it looks like there is a lot to have to maintain out in the dust, dirt, muck, and wet of the field.

Bah, too heavy to be used in the field, my friend. The MA5B assault rifle suits Troy's needs quite well.

King Priam
-The Imperial Kingdom of Troy-

Christ, I feel sorry for the guys who have to carry THAT thing around all day. That thing must weight a ton.

Last I heard, the OICW weighed in nicely at 13.5 pounds. Interesting.

King Priam
-The Imperial Kingdom of Troy-

Jeez, the thing weighs twelve pounds fully loaded. Its mainly made from polymers.

twelve pounds ~ 6 kilos. a third over the m16. wonder how heavy it will be after you've marched with it all day.

True, but keep inmind what the soldiers in WW2 were using. the M1 Automatic Rifle and the Tommy gun, they werent complaing too much.

Both of those weighed less than 4.7kg.

OOC:Your right, I was thinking of the M19 that weighed closer to 9.5 lbs. So those guys werent complaining!! And besides, the Trisagion Infantry and armed forces will carry it like it or not! Any complaining of weight will result in extensive weight training!!

OOC: Awfully heavy for a standard assault rifle. And that becomes an issue in a close firefight. If you've got to swing around this 6kg thing when some guy pops up on your flank, you might be dead or your aim might be off.

Another concern is how "soldier-proof" it is. Can it survive being manhandled by a bunch of grunts for weeks at a time in some godforesaken wilderness? The more complex it is, the more likely the answer is no.

Add in to this the cost. At US$12,000 each, that's going to prove very expensive. And remember, you can't just buy one for every man. You've got to buy some for training, some for when the gun breaks, some for parts, some so your armorers can learn how to repair the damn things, and so on. I'll bet the parts arn't cheap either.

With the exception of the optics, I'd say the OICW is overhyped. In my opinion, a better choice would be going with the H&K G36C with AG36 grenade launcher attachement. Superior to the M16, and far more reliable. Alternatively, go with the G11. It's also more reliable, and has a greater ammo capacity than any other standard assault rifle. However, it's pricey and uses the unique 4.73mm caseless round. But I'm biased towards German arms. ^_^;

WOW! Im in 2 different forum indexs at the same time, international incidents, and nation states!

OOC: The OICW is Watertest's main infantry rifle. They work very well in distant & medium engagements, but in close range you might as well have a sword. Thats why Watertest soldiers have OICWs, Uzis, and M9 Berretas.

-tag-

Am considering adopting the weapon, or at least a variant of it.

In my opinion, a better choice would be going with the H&K G36C with AG36 grenade launcher attachement. Superior to the M16, and far more reliable.

The C model doesn't have long enough a barrel to hold the AG36, does it? US Rangers us the G36K/AG36.

With the exception of the optics, I'd say the OICW is overhyped. In my opinion, a better choice would be going with the H&K G36C with AG36 grenade launcher attachement. Superior to the M16, and far more reliable.I think they should just design a new rifle taking the best features from all these different guns people say are the best. :D
Alternatively, go with the G11. It's also more reliable, and has a greater ammo capacity than any other standard assault rifle. However, it's pricey and uses the unique 4.73mm caseless round. But I'm biased towards German arms. ^_^;But even 5.56mm is too small! :(
OOC: The OICW is Watertest's main infantry rifle. They work very well in distant & medium engagements, but in close range you might as well have a sword. Thats why Watertest soldiers have OICWs, Uzis, and M9 Berretas.One of the OICW's problems is that the short 5.56mm barrel gives it a short range...

http://www.hkpro.com/image/g36cangle.jpg

A pic of the H&K G36C not k, C!!!


http://www.hkpro.com/image/g36ccomparison.jpg

And another pic with the K on top and the c on bottom, these are nice guns!!

One of the OICW's problems is that the short 5.56mm barrel gives it a short range...

Not necessarily.

The weapon's most revolutionary feature is the way it uses a laser and computer to get at enemies who are concealed up to 3,280 feet away. That's nearly two-thirds of a mile and about twice the effective range of the M-16.

http://www.hkpro.com/image/g36cangle.jpg

A pic of the H&K G36C not k, C!!!


http://www.hkpro.com/image/g36ccomparison.jpg

And another pic with the K on top and the c on bottom, these are nice guns!!

Yeah, they're both good weapons, the G36C being IMHO slightly better. But my question is: Can the AG36 40mm Grenade Launcher be mounted on a G36C?

I've heard the US Army is going to adopt just the rifle portion as the M-8 rifle, which makes alot more sense.

That's for the 20mm part, Tersanctus.

I've heard the US Army is going to adopt just the rifle portion as the M-8 rifle, which makes alot more sense.

Yeah, the M-8 is going to replace the M4, I think. I saw a picture of the XM8 they're testing; it looks like something you could buy at Toys R Us.

I've heard the US Army is going to adopt just the rifle portion as the M-8 rifle, which makes alot more sense.

Yeah, the M-8 is going to replace the M4, I think. I saw a picture of the XM8 they're testing; it looks like something you could buy at Toys R Us.

I think it's going to replace most of the M16s too, with the OICW being reserved for one squad member and specops.

The C model doesn't have long enough a barrel to hold the AG36, does it? US Rangers us the G36K/AG36.
OOC: You're right. My mistake. I forgot that the C was the compact version.

Are you an HK fan?
OOC: Not exactly. In real life I'm a historian with an interest in military matters. I read up on most modern and historical weapons for my job. Though I'd like to be able to afford even one copy of Jane's Fighting anything... :(

Also, Terraus is run by the military in a kind of Heinleinian system. Makes sense for me to know what I'm using.


OOC: The OICW is Watertest's main infantry rifle. They work very well in distant & medium engagements, but in close range you might as well have a sword. Thats why Watertest soldiers have OICWs, Uzis, and M9 Berretas.
OOC: Actually, the reason most modern guns have automatic fire is because most battles happen at close range. It's counter-intuitative, I know, but it's the reason the M16 is used and not the long-range M1 Garand. Think about it.

Something I think people need to consider is that the average soldier today carries over 120 pounds of gear into battle. You've got to march over 25 miles in a day carrying probably 2/3rds of your weight. It's hot, it's muggy, it's buggy, and there are people trying to kill you. Now if you're equiping your soldiers with these big heavy guns, or a rifle, a machine pistol, and a sidearm, they've going to become encumbered. Each of these weapons requires there own ammunition. Combine that with all the other crap on your back and it's going to cause problems. Tired soldiers can't fight.

The C model doesn't have long enough a barrel to hold the AG36, does it? US Rangers us the G36K/AG36.
OOC: You're right. My mistake. I forgot that the C was the compact version.

Are you an HK fan?
OOC: Not exactly. In real life I'm a historian with an interest in military matters. I read up on most modern and historical weapons for my job. Though I'd like to be able to afford even one copy of Jane's Fighting anything... :(

Also, Terraus is run by the military in a kind of Heinleinian system. Makes sense for me to know what I'm using.


OOC: The OICW is Watertest's main infantry rifle. They work very well in distant & medium engagements, but in close range you might as well have a sword. Thats why Watertest soldiers have OICWs, Uzis, and M9 Berretas.
OOC: Actually, the reason most modern guns have automatic fire is because most battles happen at close range. It's counter-intuitative, I know, but it's the reason the M16 is used and not the long-range M1 Garand. Think about it.

Something I think people need to consider is that the average soldier today carries over 120 pounds of gear into battle. You've got to march over 25 miles in a day carrying probably 2/3rds of your weight. It's hot, it's muggy, it's buggy, and there are people trying to kill you. Now if you're equiping your soldiers with these big heavy guns, or a rifle, a machine pistol, and a sidearm, they've going to become encumbered. Each of these weapons requires there own ammunition. Combine that with all the other crap on your back and it's going to cause problems. Tired soldiers can't fight.

Dang; I like the C better than the K, but the AG36 tips the balance.

What's a Heinleinian system?

What type of rifles, etc. do your guys use to keep weight low?

My soldiers have light-weight gear (and I have at least one reason why every light-weight item is light-weight). You don't go far in a rainforest when you have 120 pounds on your back.
I don't mean I have excuses for light-weight gear, I mean...nylon duck boot uppers, for example.

'Bye.

True, but my soldiers don't have 120 pounds on them in the heat of combat. All they have are OICW, Uzis, Pistols, Waterbottles, Ammunition, 9 inch knife, First aid, and Grenades. I don't have my soldiers march into battle either, they hitch a ride on Cargo trucks.

For a defensive/secondary weapon, the PDW (MP7, I believe) is an awesome choice.

My soldiers have light-weight gear (and I have at least one reason why every light-weight item is light-weight). You don't go far in a rainforest when you have 120 pounds on your back.
I don't mean I have excuses for light-weight gear, I mean...nylon duck boot uppers, for example.

'Bye.

Excuse me?

Good points. I try to keep my guys as soldiers rather than mules, but I like to keep them self-sufficient, so it's kinda hard.


The MP7 is cool, but it's not really a combat rifle.

The MP7 is cool, but it's not really a combat rifle.

Agreed, but it as a SMG (esp for defense), it would function quite well.

Christ, I feel sorry for the guys who have to carry THAT thing around all day. That thing must weight a ton.

The M60 weighs 18.75 pounds.

Excuse me?Nylon (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=nylon) duck (go to duck[4,noun]) (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=duck) boot (go to boot[3,noun]) (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=boot) upper (go to upper[2,noun]) (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=upper).

What's a Heinleinian system?
OOC: Ever read Starship Troopers? It's from that. Basically, Terraus is a republican democracy where the only way to get the right to vote is to join the military. Kind of pseudo-fascist, really.