NationStates Jolt Archive

Military of Lietuveska

AIR FORCE

15 Air Divisions composed of:

100 F-22s
100 F/A-18s
100 A-10 Warthogs
10 B1B Lancers
10 B-2 Bombers
10 B-52 Bombers

NAVY

1st Naval Fleet
1 Nimitz class Carrier w/ 50 FA/18 Hornets and 35 F-15s
LSS Weston
15 Ticonderoga Class Cruisers
10 Arleigh Burke class Destroyers
10 Los Angeles class Submarines
10 PH1 Pegasus
5 Iowa Class Battleships

2nd Naval Fleet
1 Nimitz class Carrier w/ 50 FA/18 Hornets and 35 F-15s
LSS Van Arsden
15 Ticonderoga Class Cruisers
10 Arleigh Burke class Destroyers
10 Los Angeles class Submarines
10 PH1 Pegasus
5 Iowa Class Battleships

3rd Naval Fleet
1 Nimitz class Carrier w/ 50 FA/18 Hornets and 35 F-15s
LSS Alexander
15 Ticonderoga Class Cruisers
10 Arleigh Burke class Destroyers
10 Los Angeles class Submarines
10 PH1 Pegasus
5 Iowa Class Battleships

4th-7th Naval Fleets (each)
1 Nimitz class Carrier w/ 50 FA/18 Hornets and 35 F-15s
LSS Vilnius, Stockholm, and Korvana
15 Ticonderoga Class Cruisers
10 Arleigh Burke class Destroyers
10 Los Angeles class Submarines
10 PH1 Pegasus
5 Iowa Class Battleships


ARMY

1st and 3rd Infantry Division USED FOR BORDER PATROL
20,000 soldiers armed with M4 and M16A3 assault rifles and M40 frag grenades.
300 T-95 tanks
400 APCs
400 Humvees
200 Paladin Howitzers

4th-12th Infantry Division
50,000 soldiers armed with M4 and M16A3 assault rifles and M40 frag grenades.
450 M1A2 Abrams
200 T-95s
450 APCs
600 Humvees
200 Paladin Howitzers

1st Special Forces Division
3,500 soldiers armed with *classified*.
300 APCs
300 Humvees
200 Pave Low IIIs (Special Operations Chopper)

2nd Special Forces Division
3,500 soldiers armed with *classified*.
300 APCs
300 Humvees
200 Pave Low IIIs (Special Operations Chopper)

3rd Special Forces Division
3,000 soldiers armed with *classified*.
200 APCs
250 Humvees
150 Pave Low IIIs (see above)

4th Special Forces Division
3,000 soldiers armed with *classified*.
200 APCs
250 Humvees
150 Pave Low IIIs (see above)

.::Ministry of Defense and Ministry of National Defense::.
_________________________________________________

OOC:

Too big? Too small? Suggestions?

I would doubt your ability to possess a Nimitz carrier however the rest seems fine to me.

You shouldn't have a Nimitz that early, and possibly only one Los Angeles is what you should have if your operating all the other ships, the Nimitz is too much though (If your gonna use 20 fighters, an Invincible class carrier is better, a Nimitz is a waste for that much, though you may have to wait a day or two to field an Invincible class). You also have too many newest-generation tanks, far too many, there should be a lot of older tanks in there, an in slightly fewer numbers.

Your numbers are off.

Any military organization will be composed mostly of support units. A rough rule of thumb would be that it takes 10,000 support personnel to enable 1,000 men to fight- a 10:1 ratio.

Your post says you have .08% of the population in the service (very realistic number, BTW. Good call on your part). That makes your military total 560,000 people.

Using that as a starting point, you have 48,000 combatants listed for your army, which would require 480,000 support personnel to keep them supplied, paid, etc.

This leaves you with less than 40,000 people to be shared among your Navy and Air Force- including any support personnel. Sword and Shield is correct. You shouldn't have the ships you listed.

FWIW, I think that your breakdown on personnel is quite realistic. A small nation should start with a few aircraft and ships and concentrate mainly on ground forces. As you get larger, more and more budget assets should be diverted toward the power projection arms of the military- the Navy and Air Force.

This does not mean that you should ignore ground forces. Let's invent a number for purposes of this example. It will be a large, round number to make the math easier. This number will be 100 million (for no good reason other than it is a large number that divides easily by 10).

We'll assume that your military budget is $100,000,000 (this is just an example). At the start, we'll assume that half of your military budget ($50,000,000) is expended on the Army. The Navy and Air Force have to share the remaining budget with each other, R&D, etc.

As your nation gets larger (and hopefully richer), let's say that the military budget doubles to $200,000,000. The Army would $75,000,000 (note that the dollar amount increased by $25,000,000 but the percentage of the military budget dropped to 38%). This increases the percentage of the budget to the Navy and Air Force (as well as R&D, special projects, etc). In this way, you have customized your military as you grow.

BTW, this should be considered constructive critcism only of the math in your post. Many newcomers to the game refuse to even consider using logic and actual math to build a military. The fact that you have done both speaks well for you. That you asked for input on your thoughts puts you comfortably above most newcomers. Keep up the good work.

TEO

how do you buy things for you military

how do you buy things for you military

I recommend that your read the stickies at the top of the first page in the NationStates forum. Several of the threads there have the detailed answers you need.

To give the short answer, you'll need to calculate your Gross Domestic Product (the value of all goods and services produced in your country). This will help you develop a national budget. With a national budget, you can derive a military budget. This will tell you how much money you have available for the entire military (including such things as pay, supplies, power for the buildings, the cost of maintenance for the roads and equipment, buying new equipment, etc).

The stickies will help you with the detail work, especially the one called, "New to NationStates? Read these great threads.". Make note of the nations whose posts were most helpful to you when you read them. Feel free to ask them questions if you don't understand something there.

TEO

I edited it. However, I couldn't find anything on the Invincible Class Carrier, so I used to Kitty Hawk Class. :wink: I increased the size of one division by 10,000 (to keep up with my nation's growth) and cut down on the number of APCs in the SF Division.

I'm not new, this is a puppet, but I'm not telling anyone what the parent nation is. However, I will expand on this nation, and pretend that it's brand new, because, in short, it is. The first time I feel like I godmoded, so this time I'm getting it right. And it feels good..nuh nuh nuh nuh nuh..I knew that it woouuld! 8) :P

I thank all of you for your criticism, and I have taken it with a light heart. :D

Update:

I have decided that .08% of my population is my Army alone. .05% can be my Navy and Air Force divided, with navy being .03%. This bring total to .13% of my population. If this is too unrealistic, please tell me now.

I'm confusing the hell out of myself. Maybe I mean .08% when I say actual infantry fighting forces, but according to TEO, that would mean that my entire Army was 8% of my population. Huh?? :shock: So now...that means 13% of my population dedicated to the welfare of the army. I'm confused! :o :?: I suppose that's not too much...

Also, the 4th Infantry Division has been deployed to Belarussian States to protect it from attack by New Cardassia. Edit pending. :wink:

OOC:It looks good. For warship info warships1.com or hazegray.org is always good. A Kitty Hawk is still rather costly as it is a Fleet Carrier.Something smaller, perhaps refitted Midway, or the Invincable class?

Invincible class VSTOL carriers
Displacement: 20,600 tons full load
Dimensions: 210 x 36 x 8.8 meters (689 x 118 x 29 feet)
Propulsion: 4 TM3B gas turbines, 2 shafts, 94,000 shp, 28 knots
Crew: 1089
Aviation: full flight deck with ski jump, 2 elevators; 20 VSTOL and
helicopters (usually 8 Sea Harrier, 9 Sea King, 3 Sea King AEW)
Hangar: full length & width, 3 bays
Troops: 960 (short duration)
Radar: Type 1002 early warning, 1 Type 996 surface/air search
Sonar: Type 2016 hull
Fire Control: 2 Type 909 missile control
EW: UAF-1 intercept, 2 Type 675 jammers, 4 chaff, 1 Type 182 towed
Armament: 3 CIWS ( 20 mm Phalanx or 30 mm Goalkeeper)
Formerly known as "through deck cruisers", these are VSTOL carriers.
One ship is always in reserve or refit.

:wink:

How many planes fit on them??

OOC-
Well Warships 1 states that the current refit of the Invincable class can carry 24 Jumpjet capable craft. That is Harriers or the Yak-141, and for future reference to your military try not to mix Soviet and Western tech, it can become a logistical nightmare and would cost your country more to run IC.

The only Russian stuff I have are T-95 tanks, because M1A2 Abrams are just a big waste of money, especially for my nation's size. :wink:

The Invincible class carriers are the old British mini-carriers; Ark Royal, Invincible and Illustrious.

Thanks. I was looking under U.S., that's why I couldn't find anything on the Invincible class. :)

I have decided that .08% of my population is my Army alone. .05% can be my Navy and Air Force divided, with navy being .03%. This bring total to .13% of my population. If this is too unrealistic, please tell me now.

You're not too confused. Your total miltary force remains the same (and is too small if the numbers you're using are accurate: .13% of 8,000,000 = 10,400 in the military). I was under the impression that your military was .8 percent of the population in the original post (.8% X 8,000,000 = 64,000 military personnel).

Assuming that you accidentally moved the decimal point one place too far (it should be .8% in lieu of .08%, 1.3% in lieu of .13%), I think that 1.3% of the population of a small country is economically feasible (1.3% X 8,000,000 = 104,000 military personnel). Using the general rule of logistics (support personnel to combatants ratio = 10:1), this would mean you have 10,400 actual fighting men in all branches of the service. Divide them up however you like.

With that number in mind, there is no way you could have a carrier of any size (a Nimitz-class bird farm takes about 5,000 men to run, not including the air detachment).

As a newer nation, you should be concentrating on defense, anyway. Get destroyers in lieu of carriers. A couple of submarines would be a good idea as well. Get land-based fighter aircraft to provide air cover out to 300 - 400 kilometers, and lots of mobile missile batteries for shore defense. Concentrate on ground-attack aircraft at first, building/buying only enough air-superiority birds to hold what you have. Buy or build herds of mobile SAM batteries. The whole idea while you're small is to make an attack on you more expensive than the prospective gain.

Once your country gets much larger you can start thinking about power projection (there is no set size, but more than 60 million is a good bet). Start building/buying larger warships and amphibious assault ships- with landing craft. Even at this size, you're cold meat on the table for any really big nation if they're willing to soak up the casualties. Use the amphibs to provide a threat to enemy shorelines, and use submarines to threaten deep-penetration strikes at enemy infrastructure.

TEO

*Bump*

tag

The only Russian stuff I have are T-95 tanks, because M1A2 Abrams are just a big waste of money, especially for my nation's size. :wink:

Even as one who plays extensive future tech...I know that doesn't make sense somehow...

:P

That was only a bump in a vain attempt to save the thread from being purged. I don't know if it will work or not.

I was wee little when I made this thread. Just ignore anything about size, and only pay attention to the inventory. :wink:

*Bump*
OOC: Looking good. Still somethings that you could improve on:

1) Ground attackers. F/A-18s are sometimes just too fuel-lacking. Get some A-10 Warthogs, and you got some aerial anti-tank force (if the enemy decides to pop up a few tanks with its amphibious ships). Also consider low-weight and low-cost multirole fighters such as F-16s.
Also, another vital thing to defence: be able to provide early warning for your forces. This includes P-3C Orions (http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/factfile/aircraft/air-p3.html) for anti-submarine warfare, plus AWACS (Airborne Warning and Control System) such as the E-3 for scanning a wide area of airspace and the likes.
Another key to fight is know what is happening. For ground forces, you may as well consider some E-8 JSTARS aircraft for scanning of the ground. If you want to evasdrop on someone's radio channels however (although this is a very sensitive thing OOCly when you jam someone's standard portable radio) would be EC-130s and the likes.

You also seriously need transport aircraft, to mainly support your Army. Lacking enough transports will seriously put back your army forces in any development. Peacekeepers needs them overseas. Paratroopers and Special Operation Personnels needs them. Get them.

For a defending-only nation like you, an amphibious landing is a major threat in the ground arena. Properly using airpower can utterly whip them.

2) Sea.

Defending, right? Coastal missile craft (for defence against enemy ships; such as the US' PegasuS or Russian/Soviet missile boats), plus submarines. Coastal missile craft can be deadly when disrupting enemy forces, and submarines are a big plus. Since you are not really an offensive navy, consider to scrap some of the cruisers and carriers in exchange for these craft. Arm these submarines/etc. with missiles with heavy warheads to defeat the carriers.
If you want to (when invaded) to strike the enemy's territories, and perhaps provide some kind of deterrence to such event, is some Ohio class cruise missile-carrying submarines with Tomahawks. The enemy'll have a hard time looking for them.
Lastly, since you are not really offensive, scrap some of the Iowas.

BTW -- it is F/A-18 :wink:

Not really naval, but you may also want to consider some coastal batteries with anti-ship missiles, or even coastal gun batteries.

3.) Ground.
Like TEO said many months ago, consider air defence. Not only Patriots/(Russian/Soviet) S-300s/etc., but also medium-raneg and short-range defence such as the HUMRAAM (ground launchers for the AMRAAM air-to-air missile) or the Russian/Soviet BUK-1M. These could provide air defence when your units are moving.
Secondly, when the enemy's trying some attacks on you with their aircraft, get a massive bulk of short-range/medium-range SAMs plus those radar-controlled anti-air artillery. Anti-air artillery still proves deadly when used in masses.
Also, consider MLRS or other rocket launchers, as an alternative to Howitzers with bullets.

Of coruse, for the aircraft, if you are interested in buying some -- contact me :P

Thanks, Omz. :)

Perhaps sometime next week I'll make major changes and reforms, but I won't do it tonight. I appreciate the pointers. :D

Is there any particular reason that you armed most of your army with M4s?

The thing about the M4 is that it's a weapon that's handy for close-quarters battle and has a maximum effective range of about 360 metres. It fires fast and thick, about 700-950 rounds per minute. This isn't ideal for regular army operations which need distance and a fair rate of fire which doesn't spew out bullets.

I'd recommend the M16A3 or A2, which has a maximum effective range of about 550 metres with 800 rounds per minute. It's fairly cost effective and easy to maintain while keeping a high standard of accuracy and maximum impact.

That's my opinion anyway :)

Thanks for the information, I'll use it next week when I revise my military. :wink:

I had simply heard that M4s were much better, but I suppose I will use them AND one of the weapons you suggested.