NationStates Jolt Archive

OOC Discussion

With all the ignoring and debate going on between modern and future tech nations, it has become apparent that while most future tech nations could care less about interacting with a modern tech one, the feeling is far from mutual. There are two (if you have another one post it) good RPing explanations for this OOC ignoring. For simplicity, I'll be using AMF who is modern and myself who is future for the examples. Naturally, this means nothing about AMF and myself.

1. Different Time Frames/Periods.

In this explanation, what's going on in AMF has already happened in my universe. While to him it is modern, to me it is past. This, while insuring that no future tech nations get involved in war RPs, severly limits other RPing types with said nations.

2. Same Time - Different Tech Levels

This explanation, seen by me as the better one, reminds me of Star Trek. For those who have watched the show, the Federation is forbidden from interacting with less advanced cultures, yet the Federation knows that the said culture exists and at times, leaders of the said culture know that the Federation exists. For my AMF-Me example, it would enable our leaders to interact simply with the realization that my tech level is far more advanced. Naturally, AMF would forbid war between our two nations OOCly, but that would be the only type of RP not able to be done.

So I ask the NS community to vote on how they RP their modern nation to a future nation or their future nation to a modern nation. I also hope that we will be seeing more of example 2 than example 1 in the near future. Thank you for your time. 8)

Uhhh... what type of future tech:

1.) Space Tech
2.) Future Tech (future technology, but not quite space yet)
3.) Future/Space Tech (future tech with some space tech)

:wink:

I assume all nations exist in the same time frame.

(This nation is fantasy type, and dwells in a different realm altogether, so we can RP with anyone - provided they want to RP with it of course).

Stop being so specific...he obviously means future tech in general

Well, the three can be roleplayed quite different you know... having someone orbitally bomb you is different from railguns/ETC guns/pulse cannons/etc... :roll:

Well, the three can be roleplayed quite different you know... having someone orbitally bomb you is different from railguns/ETC guns/pulse cannons/etc... :roll:

That's not the point of the thread though...it's not the tech levels...it's the interaction between tech levels

Different time periods. I'll generally only RP with human-only, 1980-2010 tech nations. If there are fantasy or sci-fi nations in a big RP I'm involved in then I willtry to avoid interacting with them, especially military or technology development.

Well, the tech levels can depend on which future tech level you interact with, y'know.

It may not be fair for a modern nation to face a space nation with uber space ships, but a modern nation can take on a nation that uses ETC/railguns/other futurish stuff.

I pretty much feel future tech Rpers should only RP with future techers and modern techers with moder techers. If theres a conflict between a future techer and a modern techer they should establish a neutral technology ground between the two where the two agree what tech the war is.

What about peaceful RPs?

It can and usually is fun to RP agaist someone who has much more advance Techology.

It can and usually is fun to RP agaist someone who has much more advance Techology.

Problem is most space RPers have extremely elitist attitudes that nothing modern tech can take down anything of theres or that it will take 100s of missiles to destroy one of their ships.

With this thread, I'm trying to stear clear of war RP and concentrate on Character RP...lets stay on topic please.

It can and usually is fun to RP agaist someone who has much more advance Techology.

Problem is most space RPers have extremely elitist attitudes that nothing modern tech can take down anything of theres or that it will take 100s of missiles to destroy one of their ships.

Yeah, but still space tech nations are defeatable, on the ground that is. Basically, your best hopes are forcing them to make a surface attack and employing tactics to defeat them.

Some Space/Time Advice (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=94882&highlight=)

It can and usually is fun to RP agaist someone who has much more advance Techology.

Problem is most space RPers have extremely elitist attitudes that nothing modern tech can take down anything of theres or that it will take 100s of missiles to destroy one of their ships.

Yeah, but still space tech nations are defeatable, on the ground that is. Basically, your best hopes are forcing them to make a surface attack and employing tactics to defeat them.

well some people claim power armor that can withstand everything but a direct hit from a tank round.

Some Space/Time Advice (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=94882&highlight=)

An interesting read...although I can't say it's gospel

I should note that Belem is hardly one to speak on this matter, given that he's perfectly happy to meddle in the affairs of a future tech nation but he hides behind the lower tech base to cover his ass in a war. He's not the only one, either, there are several others who follow this MO.

Frankly, I think an ignore is a package deal. If you ignore a nation's tech you have to ignore the entire nation. You can't pick and choose between elements of a nation you'd like or dislike to acknowledge. If you OOCly disagree with a future tech nation's politics then you're going to have to choose between either trying to counter those politics but accept their technology, or just ignore both... it's ridiculously stupid to acknowledge a nation but not its tech, especially to save your ass when they get pissed off and come knocking. Saddam Hussein could provoke the US all he liked and pretend he had WMD's, but it's not like he could ignore the US's superior weapons and training when they finally came after him.

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It can and usually is fun to RP agaist someone who has much more advance Techology.

Problem is most space RPers have extremely elitist attitudes that nothing modern tech can take down anything of theres or that it will take 100s of missiles to destroy one of their ships.

Yeah, but still space tech nations are defeatable, on the ground that is. Basically, your best hopes are forcing them to make a surface attack and employing tactics to defeat them.

well some people claim power armor that can withstand everything but a direct hit from a tank round.

OOC: Just clonk 'em on the noggin with a piece of metal pipe. The echoes inside the armor will drive 'em nuts, and enough times will bust the ear drums, which puts them off balance, and you can simply push 'em down. How's that for tactics eh?

While they shoot you with plasma rifles and bomb your ranks with anti-matter :roll:

OOC: This is one-on-one. Only a fool charges into superior firepower. Drop from the trees and crack the poor bastard upside the head with a heavy blunt object, then just stay behind him and keep smackin' him on the noggin. Better yet, jump on his back and keep smackin' him from there.

*tag for future post*

bump

I use lightsabers and blasters alongside 21st century tanks, aircraft (though I will soon buy X-wings without hyperdrives to protect my satellites), and warships. It's an odd mix, but it works.

The conversation and arguement concerning future and modern technology has been continued since the very first futuretech nation started posting stuff to the forums.

Personally, I do not care about tech levels when playing this game. There are people out there that are obsessed about being the biggest, the baddest, the best, whatever. I play with the people I choose to play with, and either completely ignore everything about a specific nation I don't like, or I simply do not play with them.

It seems like a pretty easy option. If you don't like something, don't play with them. I have a pretty extensive ignore list, and I have never had to violate my list because of a large and intricate RP.

*shrug* All in all, I play with modern/postmodern/premodern/fantasy nations, and I have never had a problem. There are different techlevels in the realworld, there are different techlevels in StarWars, StarTrek, Dragonlance, whatever.

*shrug again* Deal with it, or don't. No reason to bitch about it.

*shrug* All in all, I play with modern/postmodern/premodern/fantasy nations, and I have never had a problem. There are different techlevels in the realworld, there are different techlevels in StarWars, StarTrek, Dragonlance, whatever.


That's what I do

Personally, I would like interaction with more advanced nations then my own (which is a postmodern nation, ie about 2030 or so), as long as the interaction was not just "we send fleets and ortillery you". I think it would make a cool RP, as long as the more advanced nations were reasonable about it.

When it comes to modern and future tech roleplaying, I must admit that I tend to look at the RL ages of nations. Im founded in June, and play modern tech... I find the idea of nations, several months my seniors, having future tech while I still have modern tech, to make a lot of sense, as I can see their progress as just being ahead of my own. So, I guess I support the 'same-time, different-tech' scenario.

However, when it comes to nations younger than me having future tech... Im fully aware that NS is quite freeform, but its very difficult for me to accept their tech in the way I can accept that of older nations... they just seemed to have 'skipped a beat' in a developmental sense, and thus dont fit well into my world paradigm.

So, really, I seem to believe in 'same-time-with-age-restrictions'...

IC Daistallia considers anyone who thinks they are from the future (or an alien, elf, vampire, gene-engineered organism, or anything other than modern homo sapien sapien) to be an eccentric (at best), who enjoys dressing up in costume. We generally don*t point this out, as most people here believe in an utter right to privacy, as long as they do not hurt anyone.
If such a person were to start causing problems (a *vampire* attacking others, for example) it would be considered the sign of a dangerously delusional or other wise mentally disturbed person. Such a person would be arrested and either imprisioned or institutionalized if they acted in such a manner here. (Let that be fair warning to any characters who intend ill in Daistallia).
As for actual technology or magic, those will be ignored, overlooked, or otherwise made to fit modernity.
I must say we have yet to encounter a serious situation in which this policy needed to be implemented beyond saying *Look at the guy in the rubber monster suit.* or *Sorry, your PiFizz soda doesn*t contain nanites here in Daistallia.* No one we have encountered has so far seen fit to object to this.

And anyone trying to invade in powered armor will get their cardboard/particle board/what ever? suit on stilts either ignored or laughed at.... :P

It's fun to take on the modern tech nations with my 20 megaton torpedos.

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Future tech isn't all it's cracked up to be. Look at star trek - the "borg" keep adapting to their "phasers" and becoming immune. If the starfleet just used an AK47 they'd mow the borg down no trouble.

And anyone trying to invade in powered armor will get their cardboard/particle board/what ever? suit on stilts either ignored or laughed at.... :P

Cardoard, there's historical precedent; the Germans practiced tank tactics with cardboard mock-ups built around armored cars.

That said...anyone who tries using ortillery against the Neralli will be in for a rude awakening. I don't care how advanced you are, your planetary-bombardment systems are probably geared toward hitting fixed targets. You'll have to get down into the soup to engage us.
-------------
What you need to know about Neralli (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=91505)

I use future tech in moderation... And anyone who equips all their troops with powered armor is a dumba__. I'll laugh at them while they have to stop advancing every week to get the servos fixed from mechanics. And then I'll lay down some 155mm. Seriously, if you use powered armor, have certain units that use them. That also means if you get stuck fighting a modern tech nation, you just don't use that unit.

Yep. I knew the Germans mock tanks. I thought they were mostly plywood, though (as if it really makes any difference if they were cardboard or plywood :D ).
And I pretty much agree with New Empire on powered armor. Both have their place, but no military
would depend soley on them, as some here seem to think they can get away with.

I think the question is - Will you fight honorable. It is one thing to be "superior" in terms of tech levels and whatnot, but to go around stomping on others just because "you can" would be considered dishonorable. There's something to be said about people who post oneliners about their superior tech and expect to be acknowledged as great. I'll let you decide what :wink:

I only really answered this question in terms of war and/or fighting, because I have yet to see major NS interaction consist of anything else. Until I see a major paradigm (woohoo! big word :P ) shift, I think this problem will continue to plague us.

Ramblings of a modern tech + nation

I'd actually prefer a modular system in direct battle where effectiveness of weapons etc. is determined on the underlying stats of the nation. So it doesn't really matter whether you call your shooting-thingies phasers or AK's. Thusly, my nation is always relatively ineffective apart from a few 'elite' units because of low Defence spending.

However I make an exception of course for weapons I imported like (secret OOCly) my Melkorian gravships.

As for other tech advantages: you just have to use restraint. In the "future" Knootoss we do have starships and teleportation to allow for easy interaction with space cultures. However I would never use it as a cheap plot device when interacting with modern tech nations.

For example I could just have "beamed out" Empress Joanna from Whispering Voices but that would completely ruin the RP. On the other and, I have to use that technology if I want to make a diplomatic visit to mars.

OOC: You've got to have a mix of armor, infantry, and support to effectively wage a war. Simply charging in full-tilt with your uber armor that shoots lasers outta the ass of the guy wearin' it ain't gonna cut it. Again, a liberal clonking of the noggin with a trusty mallet will do the job. Silly method for silly warfare methods. Most people these days could do with a tactics class. If you haven't guessed already, I'm modern-tech, and find it fun to take on future-tech nations, as long as they aren't jackasses about it. 'Ur stoopid bulits didn't hurt my powdered armorz! They all shootz n00ks at yooz! If you ingore me I ingore yooz!' If people would grow up, and accept the fact that you can't win everything, I think this future-tech thing would die out. Take Xanthal for example; every other day he posts updates to his ships and big guns, and apparently stuff like an ICBM won't hurt his shields. Nuclear weapons are my last resort, and you wouldn't believe the shit I catch for sayin' I've got three nukes in a bunker in my post-apoc dustbowl region. If that's what it takes to drop some starship in outer space that's bombing my region, I'm nuking their asses. I'm okay with this future tech as long as modern-tech weapons can be used effectively against it, like an LAW rocket delivered to a weak point on some futuristic tank, and the impact disables it, so infantry can move in and secure the vehicle. Most people don't agree to stuff like that.

Knoot:Or you could hop aboard one of our ultra-speedy fusion powered vessels... you'd get there in like, a month or three!

Hmm, well I agree that a lot of future nations are out to be "the best," ie powergamers of any tech level. I'd be happy to wage a war on a modern tech nation. I wouldn't pull crap out of asspace, though I would have to research some of my own weapons OOCly first to RP it well.

I like future tech because its creative and appeals to my inner geek. I dislike future tech because I have a kernal of plausibility, if not realism. That is, I like future tech that is plausible, and even some implausible ones if it is RP'd well. I like there to be a scientific basis, and failing that an out and out "its magic" explanation. IE, I hate when people try to pass something impossible off as a technology. Just admit it IS magic!

And dont give me that "sufficiently advanced technology...." cliche either. If someone is using a weapon that they can't explain how it works, to my own satisfaction, I'm inclined to ignore it. "It's magic." Fine, okay. "Its a plasma rifle dude, duh!" No!

With said plasma rifle I would have to know, OOCly, how the plasma is generated without requiring a nuclear reactor. How it is contained in "bolts" or "bottles" without requiring constant power to the magnetic field. Things like that.

And THEN I slaughter the unfortunate army equipped with uber-expensive, extremely complicated ray guns with my vastly more efficient bullet-firin' troopers with a "Yee-Haw!"

...or I ignore it. Depends.

Knoot:Or you could hop aboard one of our ultra-speedy fusion powered vessels... you'd get there in like, a month or three!

Naw, I prefer warp
*makes wooshy toilet flushing sound and is there*

My powered armor (Used im support of paratroops, or mountain warfare units or other units that need light, but versatile firepower) is hardly invincible. It's vulnerable to everything a Stryker would be, 14.5mm, LAWs, landmines, etc. And the weapons? .50 MGs, or a 40mm GMG. No uber-electromagnetic-laser-plasma-phasers. It's just the firepower of a well armed Hummer or Stryker. With legs. It's not some kind of superman.

OOC: Still looks like too much firepower for an individual soldier. Your infantry aren't supposed to be HWP's. That's what tanks are for.

And something related this inspired me to - future and modern vs future tactics:
http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=96337&highlight=

Hey, if any future tech nation wants to shoot me up a bit (not annihilate), I'd be interested in an apocalyptic "Oh-God-We're-Gonna-Die-Unless-We-Do-Something-Uber" type war, TG me. I think it would make a good story.

OOC: Still looks like too much firepower for an individual soldier. Your infantry aren't supposed to be HWP's. That's what tanks are for.
A .50 MG? It isn't infantry. They are assigned to heavy weapons platoons, but they aren't infantry. I don't think a .50 MG is what tanks are for. They aren't infantry, they're support vehicles, really.

I RP with all nations, even though I'm Space.

bump

It all depends on how the people RPing choose to play it. If both nations agree that they exist in the same time period, fine. The thing is to make your choice and stick with it. It's very annoying and confusing to have nations from two time periods agree to RP together with full knowledge of their technology level differential, then have one ignore the other if they get attacked. It's all or nothing, are you in the future or not?

Of course, my general solution to this problem (since I RPed my way up from WWII tech.) is to simply figure out what time period an RP is in, and play as Xanthal from that time (a task easily accomplished by referring to my timeline).

Modern and Future CAN Get Along! (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=97104&highlight=)

So, when I do something like this, I get flamed, but when Steel does it...
:(

Anyway, I always maintain the same characters for future and near future. I rarely do modern rps because during the 20th century Roania consisted of 10 warring states.

Very informative, Steel.

Let the rythmic chanting... commence!

Sticky! Sticky! Sticky sticky sticky! Oi Oi Oi!

So, when I do something like this, I get flamed, but when Steel does it...

It helps to be a god :lol:

I try not to RP with far future tech nations at all.

Unless you're here just to wargame, in which case tech means everything.

If you're here for character RP, then it really doesn't matter what tech anybody uses. A good story makes technology transparent; it's background to the character's daily life. The only technology should become really important is when the RP involves developing/stealing it. Otherwise it's just a tool to help tell the story.

With said plasma rifle I would have to know, OOCly, how the plasma is generated without requiring a nuclear reactor. How it is contained in "bolts" or "bottles" without requiring constant power to the magnetic field. Things like that.

I don't even know the inner workings of an AK-47, how am I supposed to explain how plasma rifles work?

(I’d just like to go on the record as saying that refusing to interact with any nation out of hand because of something as immaterial as their technology level is utterly and terminally stupid, as is ‘blanket ignoring’ certain concepts.

That out of the way, I’d like to say that I’m open to interacting with all ‘tech levels’ - which I think is a rather silly way to speak of such things - be it my own time frame (such as Walmington on Sea), eighty years in the future (such as Larkinia) or one hundred and eighty years in the future (such as Celeborne). You may ask “then what does he ignore?” The answer is as simple as finding the common ground for all three nations I listed: despite their differences in terms of technology, WoS, Lark, and Cele are three of, in my always humble opinion, the finest role players on this site.

For those of you who have not guessed it already, I ignore countries, not concepts. And, frankly, anyone who drops a blind eye to something simply because they’re too poor of a player to properly think their way around it probably would deserve to go on my disfavored list.)

With said plasma rifle I would have to know, OOCly, how the plasma is generated without requiring a nuclear reactor. How it is contained in "bolts" or "bottles" without requiring constant power to the magnetic field. Things like that.

I don't even know the inner workings of an AK-47, how am I supposed to explain how plasma rifles work?

You don't have to know how to engineer it yourself, but you already know that a gas operated gun involves an explosion propelling the bullet out the rifle barrel, a la Newtonian action/reaction...

Enough so that its real. But a plasma rifle? They aren't real technology and never will be, but that doesn't mean there has to be a wankish or vague explanation. People go to SO MUCH lengths to explain their army population percentages and such, but then when it comes to the main future weapon their troops use, nobody seems to care enough to bother giving more than lip service to how it works.

Just bugs me, I guess. Like a lot of things about this game.

(For those of you who have not guessed it already, I ignore countries, not concepts. And, frankly, anyone who drops a blind eye to something simply because they’re too poor of a player to properly think their way around it probably would deserve to go on my disfavored list.)

Good...that's what I want people to get out of this