NationStates Jolt Archive

A special request for the Evil Overlord and any other resident naval experts. (apologies to anyone who may consider theselves to be such, but EO has been the only name I consistantly run accross re naval expertise)

I am woefully ignorant of naval oirganisation and am trying to figure out how to organise my navy. Could you give us a run down on modern Naval organisation - fleets, squadrons, etc. I know how to organise my land forces really well, building up from squads to corps. I have a fairly good grasp on the AF organisational scheme. I haven*t found much here and much of what I*ve found on the net either went to statistical overload and mind glazing minutia or oversimplification.

I am particularly interested in riverine and costal forces, but perchance it would be educational for many to give an overview of bluewater organisations as well.

Thank you for your consideration.

blue water => off the continetal shelf?

blue water => off the continetal shelf?

Yep, AFAIK bluewater = oceanic, brownwater = riverine/costal. Could well be using the terms incorrectly. As I stated above, I*m woefully ignorant of naval stuff. Land stuff I know pretty well, naval, well ... :?

My experience has (naturally) been with the US Navy, so that's what I'll blather about.

"Blue water" refers to operations and vessels designed to operate in the open ocean. Technically, this is restricted to areas off the continental shelves, but any open ocean- essentially out of sight/support range from land will do.

"Brown water" traditionally refers to river/non-ocean operations, although some people consider coastal areas to be brown water (if you've ever been out to sea- way out to sea- you'll understand the terms better).

The Navy's term for coastal areas is the littoral. This applies to the waters immediately offshore and the immediate shoreline itself. The US navy has traditionally been a blue-water force, designed and trained to fight at sea far from shore and protect the nation's Sea Lines Of Communication- the vital trade routes on which most of the US economic strength rests. This shaped the Navy's organization and warfighting doctrine.

A military organization designed to conduct extended operations far from shore-based support must include floating air platforms, supremely sophisticated and lethal submarine forces, and many, many support vessels whose sole purpose is to keep the fighting forces supplied far out to sea. In this mindset, the aircraft carriers and attack submarines (ballistic missile submarines are part of a different doctrine) are the most valuable assets available. Destroyers, cruisers, frigates, and everything else that is not a carrier or sub are needed only to protect the carrier.

The fly in the ointment for this "blue-water" doctrine is the fact that most of the vessels designed for this purpose are not particularly well-suited for operations near the shore. Nuclear attack submarines have been compared to the giant squid or the extinct Megaladon shark- creatures of the deep waters. Modern destroyers and cruisers (in the US Navy, anyway) are simply not as well-armored as WWII-vintage vessels of the same type- although they are faster, better armed, and extremely sophisticated. Aircraft carriers are so huge that they can't safely operate close to shore, and the closer they get to shore, the less effective the Carrier Battle Group is at defending the carrier.

Supposedly, the Navy has been looking into building new classes of ship designed to fight and thrive in the littoral waters. This may not ever pan out, since all of the Admirals who actually run things are ex-fighter pilots and Sub skippers- all of whom are wedded to the older concept of high seas warfare by training and inclination.

Rough organization:
Each Coast has its own organization, broken roughly into ship types. The East coast (all of the Atlantic, Caribbean, Mediterranean, Baltic, and Nroth seas, plus Europe, the western parts of Africa and the eastern coasts of everything in the Western Hemisphere) is the responsibility of Commander, Atlantic Fleet (COMLANT). He is assisted by Type Commanders (AIRLANT, SURFLANT, SUBLANT), each of whom controls one aspect of the Navy show. West coast (the western coasts of everything in the Western Hemisphere, all of the Pacific and Indian Oceans, and the eastern coasts of Asia and Africa) is run by COMPAC, assisted by AIRPAC, SURFPAC, and SUBPAC.

The US 2nd Fleet is responsible for the Atlantic and Arctic Oceans and the Caribbean sea. The 6th Fleet is responsible for the Mediterranean and Black seas. 5th Fleet is responsible for the Persian Gulf, Red Sea, and parts of the Indian Ocean. 7th Fleet is responsible for the entire Pacific, the Arctic ocean close to the Pacific, and most of the Indian Ocean.

Each Fleet is composed of wide varieties of ships grouped into Squadrons and Groups- which vary depending on the time of year, the international crisis du jour, and the organizational policies of the Admiral (4-star type).

Destroyers, cruisers, and submarines are often collected into Squadrons. Part or all of a squadron's assets (the big grey floating things and the people who run them) may be assigned to a Group of one sort or another (Carrier Battle Group, Surface Action Group, Amphibious Landing Group, etc). Usually, this posting (especially to Carrier groups) seems to permanently link a particular escort vessel with a particular carrier. Even when technically assigned to a Group, individual ships may be given orders to operate independently- or at least seperately- from the rest of the Group.

A carrier BattleGroup (using just the most striking example) is a large fighting force consisting of 1-4 carriers, usually at least one cruiser for each carrier, 4 or more destroyers (depending on the number of carriers), 6 or more frigates, two oilers, at least one ammunition ship, and usually one attack submarine. Despite the silly pictures you've all seen in the movies, it is very rare for the ships of a BattleGroup to be closer than several miles from each other. In order to protect the carrier, the destroyers and frigates spread far out around the valuable carrier as a sort of "picket line" to detect and intercept potential threats. This make sa BattleGroup cover a huge amount of ocean- often 100 miles across.

Here's how a Battle Group is supposed to work:
Assuming any of you were alive at the time, you may remember when Libya was the biggest thorn in the USA's side. Take a look at a map of Libya- specifically the Mediterranean coast. That huge intrusion of ocean into the northern part of Libya is called the Gulf of Sidra, and Libyan leader Moamar Ghaddafi claimed that the entire area was Libyan national waters and brusquely ordered US ships to stay out of those waters or he would destroy them.

Since no one in the world recognized this preposterous claim, the 6th Fleet went sailing "into harm's way"- with a carrier Battlegroup. The Libyans sent several armed aircraft (20-year-old Soviet export fighters) up to threaten the Group. The ship operating as radar picket on that particular stretch of water picked up the Libyan planes almost as soon as they took off. The carrier's CAP (Combat Air Patrol- the constant overhead fighter protection a carrier always has flying at sea) was sent out to keep the Libyan planes at a distance.

At least one of the Libyan pilots activated his aircraft's missile-guidance radar and targeted the US planes. 30 seconds later, the Libyan planes were falling out of the sky. This little scenario was repeated at least once more before Ghaddafi figured out that his poorly-trained pilots and outdated aircraft were out of their league.

The next trick involved sending several Soviet-built patrol boats armed with antiship missiles out to sink the destroyer on radar picket duty (I believe the destroyer was the USS Kidd). The patrol boats fired missiles from a good long distance away. The radar on the destroyer detected the threat and she went to General Quarters. With all of the destroyer's radars operating, she easily shot down the missiles. The patrol boats fired again. The destroyer's Captain got miffed, and launched missiles of his own. The surviving patrol boats gave the whole idea up as a bad job and went home. Quickly.

That's how the Battle Group concept is supposed to work. Outlying ships operate radar and sonar to detect threats before they can get close to the carrier. The Group Commander (usually a Rear Admiral) hands any threats detected off to the relevant Squadron commander in the Group (aircraft or Aegis-equipped ships for air threats; frigates, submarines, or aircraft against submarine or surface threats, etc).

A brief discussion of the Aegis radar system. This is a phased array radar coupled with dedicated computers and communications links. Herds of highly-trained enlisted personnel are assigned to monitor the system. When activated, the radar gives three-dimensional data on any airborne or surface target within range (a very large but classified distance). The computers relay the raw data to the operators and make an list of choices available for the best method to destroy the threat. On automatic mode, the Aegis system will choose its own threat response and attack the threat with any asset tied into the system- which need not be onboard the Aegis-equipped vessel.

Originally, only Ticonderoga-class cruisers were equipped with the system. Starting in the late 80's, the Aegis-equipped Arleigh Burke-class destroyers began entering service.

I've only lightly touched on the aircraft aboard the carrier. A typical Nimitz-class carrier can launch a large number of aircraft. Several fighters from the fighter squadron onboard are usually aloft for CAP. When problems are expected, several more are ready to launch within 5 minutes. Airborne radars will likely be aloft, complementing the distant radar picket ships. Transport aircraft, sub-hunting planes and helicopters, electronic warfare planes, aerial refuelling planes, and dedicated ground/ship attack aircraft will all be onboard.

These aircraft form the carrier's striking power and primary defense. They can reach out and touch an enemy who is out of sight over the horizon. Secondary weapons include air/missile-defense chainguns, anti-air/anti-missile missiles, and surface-to-surface missiles. But the carrier still needs dozens of ships to keep it safe. Aircraft need to refuel often, and the pilots can't stay in the air indefinitely. A ship uses a lot of fuel, too, but refuels less often and can stay in place for a long time.

I seem to have gone rather far afield from the original question, so I'll stop with that. These are mostly generalizations, and mainly apply only to the US Navy. But that'll do to get you going.

Thanks! :D