NationStates Jolt Archive

The Esamopian Science Council, the most brilliant forum for Esamopia's great minds, has issued the following opinion with regard to nations using "Space Technology." This announcement is the opinion of the group, not necessarily shared by the government, although it is rumored that these technocrats at times decide state policy... so it might be coming soon.

PROCLAMATION

1. Definitions:

a. Space Technology: Refers to any nation in possession of advanced technology enabling it to pass through the great expanse of space with little difficulty. The definition also includes incredibly advanced technology that can include terrestrial purposes, this is because most "space tech" nations also possess these technologies.

i. Primary Examples: Faster than Light speeds (FTL,) "energy shields," proton, anti-proton, anti-matter, anti-neutrino, and similar weaponry. Nanomanufacturing/construction, gravometric/tractor fields/beams, pulse weaponry, etc.

ii. More generally: Any extreme advancement in the manipulation of matter and energy, please refer to Appendix I.

b. Affected portions of the proclamation:

Any and all advancements beyond those of 2020 CE "Earth" in the alternate dimension containing the human planet "Earth."

2. Reasons behind proclamation:

a. In the interests for a greater "RP" experience, it has become quite necessary to regulate the interaction of nations in NS-Earth and its dimension. Unfortunately, due to the obvious superiority of nations and civilizations possessing advanced technology (as defined above,) leading to huge leaps in the design and operation of weaponry, resource mining, and related fields, such nations have what the Council has determined to be an unfair advantage in:

i. Nearly unlimited resources: Such nations can, with their huge advances in the manipulation of matter and energy, harness the resources of entire planets, stars, gas clouds, nebulas, quasars, gravity wells, neutron stars, and all other spacial phenomenon, as best as their technology can allow. With practically the "universe" at their disposal, such nations cannot be "starved" of their resources.

ii. Nearly limitless technology: After hitting a nanotechnology + cold fusion point, such nations have a basic monopoly on all forms of construction and energy, including but not limited to weapons. Any such nation can readily create any necessary structure, be it a building, a factory, a colony, a fleet, etc., with nanites and the necessary raw resources. Since resources are nearly unlimited (as stated above,) these nanites can create virtually anything and in little time. As for the energy part, any cold fusion type reaction (and its derivatives and related reactions,) can virtually tap into an unlimited amount of power with great ease. Again, any nation with nanites and cold fusion, combined with infinite resources, can "do" almost anything imaginable.

iii. Wheras terrestrial nations, limited in their resource pool to the planet in which they reside, plus some minor additional resources from nearby planets and/or moons, and limited further by the great costs and difficulty in mining resources, are immediately limited in their capablities. Furthermore, such nations cannot use cold-fusion type reactions, limiting their power supplies and their abilities to conduct actions. Finally, with reduced technology, they stand virtually defenseless from an onslaught of superior powered adversaries in the vast expanse of space and all it contains.

3. Proclaims:

a. That all space nations, being those that are primarily based in space, that engage in the mining of resources in space, those that make use of FTL speed travel and related accomplishments, and that are, due to the complexities of space technology, inherently nearly infinitely more advanced (technologically) than their terrestrial counterparts, must, under the proclamation, engage exculsively with other nations of similar status. The council further proclaims that any involvement with terrestrial affairs must therefore be banned and ignored immediately and for all time.

b. That all terrestrially based nations, with sufficient advancements, manipulation of matter, manipulation of energy, and technological improvements (but not necessarily infinite resources,) are hereby ordered to interact solely with other such nations and with space nations, and never to take part in terrestrial affairs.

4. Summary:

a. The council's main distinctions boil down to the possession of:

i. Nanotechnology (and related/more advanced types.)
ii. Cold-fusion energy capabilites (and related/more advanced types.)
iii. Nearly infinite resources from the harnessing of i and ii to mine, extract, and otherwise gather an almost unlimited amount of raw material.

b. Logically result in:

i. Full capablility of manipulation of matter, by being able to construct any building, vechicle, weapon, etc. with great ease in time and resource efficiency.
ii. Full capablility of powering up any necessary reaction, or the use of any type or size of energy beam or weapon.
iii. Immense and unlimited resources conveniently gathered and used for i and ii.

c. Therefore force the Council to proclaim:

i. Any intercourse between nations in possession of any and all items in Section 4, part a, cannot be done with nations not in possession of any or all items in 4a, and that such intercourse should be banned immediately.

ii. The term "space nations" due to its common association with all items in part 4a, although the proclamation extends to all nations possessing any or all items in 4a.

5. Enforcement:

a. The Esamopian Science Council does not enforce its decisions, however these decisions may be taken up and agreed to by the Esamopian government.

b. The ESC only offers suggestions for further debate and is not a legislative organ.

Appendix I: Advancement in any civilization can be specifically outlined through the use of "tech trees," however, all advancement can be very broadly based in three main ways:

1. Manipulation of matter: Everything from post-and-lintel construction, arcuated systems of architecture (including vaults,) simple machines, complex machinery, electronics, heavy manufacturing, etc. This is usually apexed with the creation of incredibly advanced computers and machinery, including space construction and theory. This can be before or after the development/control of nanotechnology (and other smaller units such as picotechnology and beyond.)

2. Manipulation of energy: Beginning with the creation and maintainance of fire, static electricity, kinetic electricity, various transfers of energy (oil lamps, burning of fossil fuels, wind power, hydroelectric power, geothermal power, waste-to-energy convertors, etc.) This usually hits a milestone with the splitting of the atom and the emergence of nuclear power (and weaponry,) and steadily progresses. It is culminated with the development of cold fusion and greater efficiency methods.

3. Manipulation of time: Very highly advanced, refer to Appendix II ( Classified, regarding the Ministry of Time and its operations.) A civilization now possesses the ability to manipulate time itself, able to travel backwards or forwards by any desired amount. Declared highly disruptive to the Space-Time thread by the Minister of Time (details classified,) Esamopia has attempted to put an end to this.

Right.... :roll:

Right.... :roll:

You did not even read it!! Shame shame...

I thought it was very creative and well written, signs of a dedicated poster... or a sick man/woman (sorry, don't know).

*applauds Esamopia*

I thought it was very creative and well written, signs of a dedicated poster... or a sick man/woman (sorry, don't know).

*applauds Esamopia*

Sick MAN! Thank you, sir.

Well thought and well spoken, but I feel that such blanket declarations hinder those of us that are space RPist who still try and interact with Earth. Frankly, I think it would be much more practical to decide on an individual basis from case to case rather than just loop all nations together and limit RP fields. But, this is why I have treaty ports on Earth and Mars that way I can still interact with nations when stuff like this starts to fly around.

*Runs off to renegotiate lease of the territory of the New Bergia treaty port on Earth.*

Good Lord, only 50 years left how could I let it slip up on me?

I read it and I dissagree. Throughout RL, more advanced civilizations have come across less advanced ones. The Native Americans couldn't "Ignore" the British or Spanish. If a nation wants to realisticly RP, they must accept all tech levels as valid and not Ignore on that basis.

There are several nations that interact with modern and space tech nations. I am one. There is a very clear line though... I will only engage in military RPs or tech trading with those of space tech and will only engage with a modern tech nation in the following ways:

1: Non-militaristic political alliances.
2: Economic trade
3: Disaster relief
4: Defense from another space tech nation

You see, while I have this technology, I do not share it with the modern tech nation unless they are going to upgrade fully to space tech, I do not provide military aide unless they are under attack or threat of attack by a space tech nation.

In short, my case is unique and does not harm the RP potential of any modern tech nations, so I will not follow this Proclomation.

I think people should read AMF's post on ignoring or not ignoring this before putting up threads like this. That way they would know that no one will apply to such blanket doctrination and that each case is different. Many space tech nations work on a basis like Crimmond, I myself do the same. The terrestrial modern nations that interact with me come to my treaty ports and establish embassies there, and what technology I use on Earth is mostly old tech, and besides most of my stuff can be destroyed by modern nations. This was proven to me in the Lumbosan War where in several engagements my supposedly oh so superior forces were dealt heavy blows by modern tech nations.

Meh, space...........if God had meant man to go into space, he would have given us 3 stage rocket boosters instead of legs........*poof* :P

Wait a minute, I just disbelieved myself :!: NOOOOOOOOO *fades from existence*

the Republic of Simsington has sent our satalite that we stole from the USA into space. the first nation under 10 million people to do it. looks like America needs to boost their defences.

the Republic of Simsington has sent our satalite that we stole from the USA into space. the first nation under 10 million people to do it. looks like America needs to boost their defences.USA? There are regions called America, a nation called Emerika and thousands of United States... I'm not sure what you are talking about.

http://home.earthlink.net/~alpha_zero_usm/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/krallc.jpg
Ambassador Krall'c
Head of Foriegn Relations
Former Head Ambassador

OOC: The USA doesn't exist on Nation States.

ooc:*
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Well-written. *
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Ultimately pointless, but well-written none the less.

The Cabinet of the Immortal Shogunate of Reploid Productions and all affiliated territories has studied the Esamopian proclamation concerning what it defines as 'space tech' nations, and has decided upon the following response to that document.

NEVAR!

~The Immortal Shogunate of Reploid Productions

The Immortal Shogunate *wonders if the mods will ever run out of innovative names*

Well written, and well thought out, however there are some nations that do not fit into "space nation" as listed above, as well as a few that do however do not godmod with it. I am one such nations in the first respect, for whiel I do have cold fusion and better for power, we do not use nanotechnology, and likely never will. Our resources are not limitless, and though we occasionaly find need to strip a planet barren, we have no mining guilds, prefering the few government mines in our own region, or to work with the Valinion mining cartels. Our "ubber tech" is about on par with modern tech, and our space craft are not able to shrug off an ICBM wihtout taking massive amounts of damage to internal systems, crewmen, super structure, ect. not to mention the nasty little side effect of radiation. Our troops are not any more armored than modern troops, some of them less so, and our tanks are not invulnerable to all but dirrect nuclear strikes. They will take mroe punishment than most tanks, but all in all, are comperable to the M1A1's. The majority of my airforce is not atmosphere capable, for anything more than a launch into space that is, and those that are have to deal with air resistance, friction, and the fact that the majority of them will be devoting mroe power to keep off the ground than in space, making them as manuverable, if not less so, than modern aircraft. Add this to the fact that I treat ortillary and orbital bombardment like weapons of mass destruction. I've roleplayed for 9 years now, I've GMed both table top and helped to rewrite the mechanics for a Live Action RPG called Calar. from that experience alone, I've made it a habit to balance myself to every gaming style, to keep it fun for everyone. Knowing this, as an exception to the rule of space nations, should I be blanket ignored out of hand, or should I be allowed to roleplay provided I am able to do so well and without godmoding or techwanking? I agree with those saying ignores should not be done on a player by player basis, its a game, we are all trying to have fun, as long as I and my fellow sane space nations aren't party crashing, what harm is there in it? besides, think of the bragging rights that you sent alien invaders packing.

*wont give a damn*

Besides nanotechnology tends to be ingored by even space nations as its too easly abused.

Actually, to claim 'i have nanotech, i can do anything!' is stupid, nanotech is impractical for mass production of complicate stuff as well as mass products/ basic stuff (basic chemicals, steel, whatever), it would take LONGER to produce it than using traditional ways, while being far more expensive.

It HAS it`s use, but it`s NOT 'ultima ratio' tech...

You have the right to ignore anyone you choose to. This is free form RP. I don't believe the old argument "Throughout RL, more advanced civilizations have come across less advanced ones. The Native Americans couldn't "Ignore" the British or Spanish. If a nation wants to realisticly RP, they must accept all tech levels as valid and not Ignore on that basis. " is not valid since the nation with übertech that meets other nations with magic or überübertech tends to ignore that as well.

I have personal experience when I have met spacetech with übertech of my own and the people that used the same argument as above started whining to me for using better tech.

Bottom line, it's no fun being too superior to your opponent. Good RP'ers tend to get above that and play for fun, not for victory. As long as you meet nations that can accept a loss or even a loss of their main characters it doesn't matter if their tech is superior or not. Too few nations out there accept that though

Right.... :roll:

You did not even read it!! Shame shame...

Hehe either did i

As we are nomads, and don't actually have a 'home planet', but rather, a sort of 'Mothership', the Wanderer, we will never have almost unlimited resources, as we travel from sector to sector to mine just enough from vacant asteroids and the such where useful resources can be acquired for use in various industrial and scientific activities.
As much of the resources that is acquired is actually used for creating new components for the Wanderer or the creation of new ships (whether it be Capital or Fighter ships), resource management is essential to The Star Wanderers; and thus, we would not readily attack another nation, except in the cases of defending the Wanderer.

My apologies over what may seem as a "blanket Ignore" of all space/super advanced nations. Please note that this "Proclamation" was only done by the ESC, not a government agency, and that this was to serve as talking points, not a full-fledged pledge to ignore all such nations.

With regards to the many points over nations that have:

Political alliances (non-military, however,)
Trade relations,
Defense if attacked by other space nation,
etc.

I believe that such a nation is definitely within the RP bounds and would definitely create a great balance, in that they should not attack nations that are so inferior technologically... but might defend one if attacked by a space nation (very noble indeed!)

My criticism should therefore be focused (and it now is) on those futuristic nations which regularly interact militarily with other non-futuristic nations, creating a very lop-sided battle.

I thank you all for your input, you are welcome to put more as you see fit, and I believe that a decision by the government over this issue will be proclaimed soon.

Official policy will be forthcoming... if there are any other opinions?

I actually got someone to think and change their opinion to a degree...


*feels all warm and fuzzy inside*

My criticism should therefore be focused (and it now is) on those futuristic nations which regularly interact militarily with other non-futuristic nations, creating a very lop-sided battle.
It is possible for non-futuristic (non-future tech) nations to form military alliances with future tech ones, thereby creating a more balanced battle, not a perfect scenario, but it's a start.

Lopsided battles can be fun as one can always infict damage on the enemy still and and one of the really old and powerful nations stated anyone who carried out a Orbital bombardment, would face one themselves. Maltek I think it was stated that.

The problem in my opinion with most space tech nations is that people use space tech to god mod, even people who are otherwise quite respected roleplayers. I think your proclamation is well thought out, but I don't think it is actually necessary.

Whatever happened to the rule "an AK47 will kill you just as dead as a particle cannon" or whatever it was? Most space tech countries, even ones which RP really well the rest of the time, god mod to some extent in that they seem to think that their superior technology means that they shouldn't have to take casualties on the same scale as their opponent. You shouldn't be "making concessions" to lower tech countries when you say whether or not you were hit etc, you should presume that whatever your opponent's tech level is, it will be effective against you. If you presume that, then there is no advantage to space tech, and everyone can just roleplay with whatever tech level they like.

The playing field should be level. The game is based on the statistics of our nations in NS, eg, our economy, our population. Everything else is just flavour. If you have spaceships and faster than light starships, that's just flavour text! If you get into war with a modern tech country, you should take casualties, and you should presume no advantage whatsoever comes from your technology unless you both otherwise agree to it for RP purposes.

If we all did that, there wouldn't be a problem at all, and we'd all be able to keep whatever tech we want.

One way to solve this problem can be, as suggested very recently, have space nations "protect" certain non-space nations. (By space nation I just mean any sufficiently futuristic and advanced nation, these are usually in space.) At any rate, if some space nations can form protectorates with the terrestrial countries, then this just might work...