NationStates Jolt Archive

This is basically a summary of the evidence that I used in the earlier thread:

IT WILL BE LONG, SO becareful...

Melenmacar:

Slagkattunger wrote:
ooc:-Am I the only who RP the interception of a blackmarket requests? Come on ppl (those who are not taking the offer up) alter your posts to show how your nation knows about it. Belem didn't broadcast it in the open you know! Hence the Blackmarket bit in the title.


OOC: Three words:

Satellite comm intercept.

They might not be broadcasting openly, but they'd still have to send out a lot of transmissions to likely suppliers. At least one of those is bound to get noticed by a Menelmacari "Elenpalantír" reconsat. Even if no transmissions are caught, there would likely be some 'chatter' about it after the fact. Since MISSION, the Menelmacari intelligence agency, keeps close watch on the various assholes of the world, some of that chatter will reach our pointy ears.

This is the most damning piece of evidence, IMHO, since it shows that although Belem intended the trades to be a secret, Siri's evil forces were still able to listen in on them. This is the reason why I say Siri was able to hear everything I did and apply it ICly, and why it would have been useless to RP a "Secret-RP" since it would have been discovered anyway.



Esamopia:

Hmm... Esamopia has a brilliant method of getting around Melenmacar's blockade (I hope I spelled it right, if not sorry!) Although we do hate Belem's tactics, for example, his famous quote: "I don't RP, I annex."

So we're not sure what to do here, we fully support the idea of the Interdiction, but we are also itching to test out our method of getting around it...

Suggestions on what Esamopia should do?

…



Belem wrote:
well someone has to play the bad guy.



Brilliant! Well that tipped the balance, I support you.

Now, I have several elves that can be transported to you... I would request 250,000 a head, and I will be transporting 20 of them. (Any larger and this would be public knowledge in my country, furthermore, I am trying to keep a pro-elf or neutral stance, so no matter what this cannot be revealed within my nation... though Melenmacar may be able to intercept this message.)

Please tell me if you agree, I will have them sent then.

As you can see, my submarine idea was just waiting to come out... that is in fact the only reason why I bothered to trouble myself with the elves and such... to try to take on the undefeatable Siri. The subs were not something I just made up at the last second!!

Esamopia

OOC: When will Siri respond...

IC: Commodore's orders:

" Full speed ahead , men! We are 250 miles [b] away!! I want us travelling at [b] 20 knots ... immediately!" Emphasis added.
"Aye, sir."
"Excellent... soon my plan will come into play... soon I will be known throughout the world, mwhahahah."
"Sir, anything else??"
Surprised that the foolish Ensign was still there to hear the maniacal rant, the Commodore grew annoyed. "Get back to work fool!"

1. You can see that the ship was rather broken down... cruising speed at only 20 knots. (Melencamar's own estimate for a decent military vessel was 30-40 knots.)
2. You can obviously see the insanity on the Commodore. Again, Melenmacar had access to these messages through her bloody sattelite, as well as MISSION operatives.

Melnmacar (while Esamopian flotilla still 250 miles away)

OOC:

Belem: Unlikely... anyone trying to pass below the gravships would be ordered to turn back. If not, their vessels would either be seized or sunk.

Oh, and you'll ignore future tech on the part of someone blockading you, but not on the part of a nation trying to run that blockade (specifically, Vernii)? There's a word for that, it's called 'hypocrisy'.

Esamopia: You do realize that if this method of yours results in the destruction of a gravship, you'll be at war with Menelmacar before lunchtime, right?

IC:

Aboard one of the Menelamcari cruisers...

"Esamopian vessels approaching the coastline," the sensor officer reported.

"Move to stop them," the ship's commander ordered. "Open a channel."

"This is the Menelmacari Imperial cruiser Burning Wind to approaching vessels. Your destination has been placed under Interdiction by Imperial Order of the Elentári of Menelmacar. You are hereby warned to immediately reverse course, or your ships will be permanently impounded without compensation

Even from 250 miles away, clearly out of range of most communication systems, or at the very least the intent of the vessel and its destination could not be known from so far away, Melenmacar "magically" knows that the small Esamopian flotilla, which theoretically could be doing anything and heading anywhere, knows that our "destination is under Interdiction." This is another piece of evidence that Esamopian conversations/transmissions on the surface flotilla were being intercepted.

Esamopia:

OOC: Are your ships the naval kind (on water,) or space ships, Melenmacar? If they are the latter, this might not make too much sense, but it wont matter much.

IC:

"Commodore, we are know within 50 miles of the coast, the Melenmacar's refuse to back down... they are even launching fighters!"

"Excellent... order all ships in the task force to set ramming courses! Maximum speed gentlemen! I will enforce the will of the world or die trying, we are not cowards!!"

Shaken aback somewhat, the ship's Captain complied and knew that it would be worse to be declared a traitor (with his family's life and possession forfeit,) than die... so he complied hoping his crazy Commodore had something up his sleeve.

"Aye sir, all ships complying."

"Excellent... I can see that we are know 45 miles away... steady as she goes!!"

...

"Sir... I think you should know that we can't "ram" them... they are floating above the water and they are SPACECRAFT."
"Who said that? Is this the Captain?"
"Yes... and I cannot take this foolishness any lon-"
The Commodore pulls out a small PP7 pistol and lodges a few bullets in the man's brain... his family will have to foot the bill, of course.
"XO, congratulations on your promotion. Now does anyone else have any objections?" The Commodore waived his pistol meancingly just in case... but no one spoke... they knew that mutiny or treason would end their lives as well as cause enormous trouble for their families back home.
"Excellent... XO... I mean Captain, your first order is to simply head for the most direct path to Belem's coast. What is our status on that?"
"Sir, we are 25 miles away from the Belem coast, 13 miles away from its waters... but only a few miles away from an Imperial vessel that is closing in fast."
"Hmm... broadcast this message on all frequencies:
Attention Melenmacari vessel, this is Commodore Iganov, we are on a mission of peaceful trade and your "Interdiction" has no legitimacy. I urge you to stand down your weapons and withdraw, before is set aflame! I repeat, your "Interdiction" is illegal, and we will not be held responsible for the lives of your crew or the survival of your vessel should you choose to oppose us! STAND DOWN IMMEDIATELY."
"Message sent sir, still no response."
"This will be their final warning... we will use our secret weapon if they fail to stand down."

The weapon... of such terrible proportions, is likely to set the entire fleet to dust... a weapon of such great power and unparalleled strength. Still, the Commodore may get a medal for its successful use... or be executed, and he will always be famous (or perhaps infamous) for its use... but he has no choice!

Here you can obviously see the insanity of the Commodore... furthermore although the fleet was not planned on being in the water (my mistake) it all fit in with the Commodore's foolishness... asking the crew to ram into something about the surface.

[b] In conclusion, this is basically saying why my actions were not illegal. As you can see, I did everything possible without revealing my hand to give subtle hints... all Melenmacar had to do was:
a. Board the vessel containing the "secret cargo."
b. RP a "MISSION" agent sneaking on board and attempting to see what's inside.
c. Specifically mention the scanning on everything UNDER water as well on the surface.
d. Order a scan of the water for submarines... something that should have been routinely done but wasn't.
e. Anything else you can think of...

More broadly, the point of an RP is not to insure that the other nation has absolute knowledge and has every chance to stop your actions. This theory would be flawed, since all you need to do is get a nation with sufficiently advanced technology to be able to do anything... and then there would be no point in RPing anything... because you'd always win.

The little guy (i.e. Esamopia,) tries to sneak around your fortifications and strike boldly where you are most vulnerable... that is what was done, and I am sorry if no specific mentions of submarines/jammer were made, but you could have figured it out.

Finally:

If you answered yes to all three of my last questions on the last thread, then I am still willing to revise the plot. If not, then I must submit that my version of events is indeed legitimate.

Have a nice day.

My response to your earlier arguments, and probably most of your current ones, can be found in the original thread here. (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=83306&start=120)

Option A, actually, was why you were tractor-beamed instead of simply sunk. Had you not simply pulled out the sub, there would have been a boarding immediately after.

~Siri

OOC:

Could have this incident been handled a bit better on both sides? Obviously yes. But I think the real question here is how can you actually keep another player off balance (that is, guessing about your true motives) without giving away the whole plotline but coupled with a judicious use of OOC commentary. I mean, it’s kind of hard to act “surprised”.

If I may direct your attention to the interaction between Alcona and Hubris and myself in the Diamond Rush thread involving one of my spooks "Joe".

Alcona and I are operating with incomplete information in that we don't know what the other one will do. To be honest, I'm not sure what will happen to Joe but I'm running with it.

edit: I should add that I'm aware of the controversy surrounding Menelmacar's knowledge on Esamopia's ship, but then again, Menelmacar does have a point about the radar. I don't know, any ship trying to run a blockade makes for an excellent diversion. And Esamopia did that extremely well.

Diamond Thread (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=75732&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=100)
Pantera's relevant post. Explaining IC reasoning OOCly (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=80203&highlight=)

====

The FKC (http://www.freewebs.com/klatchia/index.htm)
The Order of the Seraphim (http://s2.invisionfree.com/Order_ofthe_Seraphim/index.php?act=idx)
The UTP (http://invisionfree.com/forums/UTP/index.php?)
TDP Tech Inc. (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1902608#1902608)
World Factbook Entry: Vrak (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=83379&highlight=)

This {the satellite interceptions} is the most damning piece of evidence, IMHO, since it shows that although Belem intended the trades to be a secret, Siri's evil forces were still able to listen in on them. This is the reason why I say Siri was able to hear everything I did and apply it ICly, and why it would have been useless to RP a "Secret-RP" since it would have been discovered anyway.

It can be assumed that Belem's request for non-human lifeforms was sent through broadcasts (albeit secret), as Belem did not specify any specific nation and did not have one person speaking to another person in a private conversation. Private conversations (assuming the room is not bugged) cannot be intercepted with reconniscance satellites, while transmissions can. The fact that your Commodore was acting strangely towards his crew could NOT be used by Menelmacar for IC action, because neither the crew of her gravships nor Siri herself would have ANY PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE of what was going on on board the ship.


As you can see, my submarine idea was just waiting to come out... that is in fact the only reason why I bothered to trouble myself with the elves and such... to try to take on the undefeatable Siri. The subs were not something I just made up at the last second!!

I fail to see how the statements you refer to show anything regarding a submarine or the intent to use a submarine. Actually, the entire context of the conversation between you and Belem appears to be Semi-OOC. due to your reference of Belem's supposed quote: "Although we do hate Belem's tactics, for example, his famous quote: "I don't RP, I annex."".

You did state you had a method of getting around it, but that doesn't necessarily make one think "Oh! He's going to use submarine's." Although sometimes it may be RPed, we are not psychic.

1. You can see that the ship was rather broken down... cruising speed at only 20 knots. (Melencamar's own estimate for a decent military vessel was 30-40 knots.)
2. You can obviously see the insanity on the Commodore. Again, Melenmacar had access to these messages through her bloody sattelite, as well as MISSION operatives.

At this point, yes, the vessels are rather far away, but they are heading for Belem at a relateively decent speed. Perhaps a hasty captain on one of the gravships assumed that the vessels were headed for Belem, as one can tell that by monitoring their trajectory and speed.

Menelmacar CANNOT see the "insanity of the Commodore" because Satellites cannot intercept a private conversation from one person to another (unless the vessel were bugged, which Menelmacar did not RP that it was, nor had she RPed an attempt to bug the vessel). From every indication, this is a Commodore giving orders to an ensign on board his vessel, not transmitting orders to another vessel. Also, Menelmacar did not RP any MISSION operatives on your vessel, so would, again, have no knowlegde of your Commodore's words or actions.

Even from 250 miles away, clearly out of range of most communication systems, or at the very least the intent of the vessel and its destination could not be known from so far away, Melenmacar "magically" knows that the small Esamopian flotilla, which theoretically could be doing anything and heading anywhere, knows that our "destination is under Interdiction." This is another piece of evidence that Esamopian conversations/transmissions on the surface flotilla were being intercepted.

Note that your course and trajectory still, technically, had you headed for Belem. Again, a hasty Gravship Captain may have assumed that you were headed for Belem based on monitoring of your speed and trajectory, and used that information to extrapolate that you were headed for Belem.

Here you can obviously see the insanity of the Commodore... furthermore although the fleet was not planned on being in the water (my mistake) it all fit in with the Commodore's foolishness... asking the crew to ram into something about the surface.

Repeating myself further, Menelmacar could not have had any knowledge of your Commodore's private rantings to his crew, unless he was wildly transmitting them to the world using his ship's communications systems, which gathering from your RP, he was not. The orders for ramming speed was transmitted, and could have been intercepted, but Siri also could have taken that for OOC confusion that you did not know she did not have a water-based navy and not commented on it.

The little guy (i.e. Esamopia,) tries to sneak around your fortifications and strike boldly where you are most vulnerable... that is what was done, and I am sorry if no specific mentions of submarines/jammer were made, but you could have figured it out.

Jammers affect communications frequencies as well. You did not post anything about these being affected, or did not RP anything about the effects of jammers. You mentioned that you had Secret Cargo, but that is all. This could be anything, but Jammers would intentionally disrupt Menelmacar's sensors and is something that you did not mention. The only way someone could have discerned that your "Secret Cargo" were indeed sensor jammers were if either A) you demonstrated effects of the sensor jammers on Menelmacari sensors or communications, or B) mentioned them. You did neither. You cannot expect Menelmacar, or anyone for that matter, to automatically know what you were referring to. To quote Menelmacar: "The jamming I would have spotted as well, when it was noticed some of our communications frequencies were blanked out." So even if she would not have spotted the submarines (due to the jamming), she would have at least spotted the jamming.

She also stated she was actively scanning the coast previously in the thread. She would have detected submarines surfacing for long enough to deposit the elves, and responded to it, HAD YOU MENTIONED THAT THEY EVEN SURFACED instead of just responding to Siri in a letter "This this and this happened and you had no clue! You lose!".

I am not saying you godmodded (I do not throw the word about lightly), but there are things you could have, and possibly still can change, to make the RP better. "You are welcome to role play however you would like, but there are blatant errors there that you are being the chance to correct. If you choose not to, well, fine. But I would not be too suprised if Siri ignores you."

I understand all of your points Khenala, and I agree with most, particularly my poor RPing when it comes to the submarine... in which I do not mention its surfacing, transferring cargo, resubmerging, etc.

I therefore request, officially, that my involvement in the entire thread be deleted/disregarded, although I do not do this as an admission of wrongdoing, but simply since the controversy is no longer worth the immense time and energy involved... if Melenmacar wishes to consider it a victory, she may do so, if you would also like to stop the thread at the point where the doomed crew and crumbling vessels are in Siri's hands then that is also fine, as we mentioned before they are of no use to me.

My only point here is that there is great frustration among any RPers when dealing with a space/ultrafuture/advanced nation, and more broadly about how to conduct Secret IC affairs when facing such a nation.

For example, how would any non-space/ultrafuture/advanced nation be able to win a war against someone like Melenmacar, or even more realisticly, defeat an enclosure/blockade or "Interdiction?"

The point of RPing conflicts is because it is fun, challenging, thought-provoking, etc. I see nothing fun, challenging, thought-provoking, or anything of value in attempting to go against a nation which claims that it can intercept most communications, deploy a fleet to any point on the globe, and then cause a ruinous "Interdiction," without fear or even concern over the reactions of other nations, because they are simply irrelevant... in point of fact, THERE IS NO WAY OF DEFEATING A Melenmacari blockade or similar tactic by a similarly advanced nation.

I know... I know... "Just because you can't do it doesn't mean that such a feat is impossible..." Well I don't think so... unless Melenmacar consents to stopping its blockade, usually by some ridiculous list of demands (see New Hyperbolean conflict) or otherwise submits to Siri's will, there is no escape. On a broader game view, how do we deal with such blatant unilateral action?

Political theory suggests that whenever a nation has "superpower" status (more than superpower status in Melenmacar's case I think,) then other nations attempt to naturally balance against it, in order for a more politically secure and stable world (imagine a blockade or "Interdiction" everyday Siri has a bad hair day.) However, due to these rules regarding the need to post your actions (at least in "Secret-RP's," the chances of defeating Siri are almost nothing.

Consider, for one brief moment, that everything in that RP was in RL... how would a nation smuggle supplies to Belem? Simple! They'd "sneak" something in by passing it through the least thought of or observed area. In my case, I thought a surface diversion, coupled with jammers and a submarine lurking below the surface (not visible to the eye at least,) would have had a chance. Yet the rules of RP prevent me, or anyone else for that matter, of creating a meaningful surprise. This occurs in particular when dealing with space/ultrafuture/advanced nations.

Why does this occur with those nations in particular? Simple. Imagine the Melenmacari blockade being conducted by a "wet" navy in RL. IN order to sneak the supplies, I would have done the exact same thing, except carry a sonar jammer of some sorts instead, and the plan would work flawlessly. The sonar doesn't pick anything up, and the crew does not know it is being jammed (they assume there is nothing going on,) especially with their minds concentrating on a flotilla somewhere on the surface. If this situation was in an RP, then again I could now secretly RP the subs entry, without fear of any countermeasures by the enemy, because they would not have any resources that would inform them of the sub's presence, beyond the sonar, which they do not ICly know is being jammed. Unfortunately, this is not the case with any space/ultrafuture/advanced nation, which could virtually "make-up" (while still being in line with RP rules,) some sort of anti-sub detector or "sensors" of such great proportions that they'd spot a sub right away and would somehow know if they were being jammed. Again, this is all possible, even within the rules of RP, because the device is so "advanced." So here, an attempt at a "Secret-IC" would do nothing more than arose an OOC response by the space/ultrafuture/advanced nation that they have measures in place that could stop my gambit, no matter what it is, because they're so bloody advanced!!!

If I had RP-ed a sub, Melenmacar would say that it was spotted, held my some tractor beam or field or something, and that my mission would have failed. Any shipment to Melenmacar via land route would be impossible (due to impassible mountains and Siri's threat to destroy any tunnels or railroads or the like to enforce the "Interdiction.") Any air shipment would be similiarly stopped, again by some force-field/tractor thingy. So what else can one do to stop such an Interdiction? Declare war! Ha... Suicide... since any decent space/ultrafuture/advanced nation can blow up your cities from orbit... tractor beam your leaders or "transport" them and kidnap them, burn your country in ten minutes worse than any nuclear strike (with no fall-out thanks to cold-fusion energy or "phasers" or what-not,) not to mention being able to do all this with enough time spared to do the same to ten other nations in a day.

Hence the dillema? What to do about such space/ultrafuture/advanced nations?!! I am now seriously considering the need for ignoring such nations, since it is impossible... utterly impossible, to try to even stand up to them... much less defeat them. A difficult problem is fun to solve, but an impossible one is simply worthless.

Comments would be appreciated.

This scenario could have worked with you both mentioning the jammers and the submarines, had you done the following:

You could have stated that the jammers were, in fact, Jammers, and were preventing scans of the ship and the area around it. While Menelmacar would be boarding the ships, discovering the jammers location, and stopping them, by that time your subs would have reached Belem undetected and would have surfaced, releasing their cargo of the smuggled elves. Menelmacar would have to scramble to stop them at this point but by that time the deed is done.

It's not impossible, nor is it illegal to use jammers or submarines as you have proposed, but you have to actually role play their use, and not just state that they were used after the fact. Because by not mentioning them at all, you are not giving Menelmacar a chance to role play with you, you are merely dictating what has happened, and what was done. That is bad form.

I think you are giving Menelmacar too little credit. Yes, she is future tech and yes, it would be hard for a modern-tech nation to break the interdiction, but you have to trust the person you are role-playing with to role play fairly, otherwise the role play will fail.

You were too quick to assume that by mentioning the presence of the submarines or the jammers, that Menelmacar would automatically find some way to stop them. By doing so, you didn't give her the chance to respond to them in a fair manner, and deprived yourself of what was otherwise good Role Play. See what I mean?

First off I would say a blanket ignore is not the way to go. How to RP this and succeed would depend on the smaller nation's cleverness, and the futury nations willingness to allow a weakness. If the futuroid nation claims invincibility, then an ignore of THAT nation is allowable, I think. I've had some good RPs with modern, or even primitive-tech nations. Mostly because I agree to meet them with like measures. Never EVER had to do an orbital strike unless I get WMDed.

I started participating in the Black Market non-human selling thread, and just decided it wasn't worth my time when all of a sudden impassable mountains came up. Poor RP as far as i'm concerned. His neighbor is on his border, and blanket ignores future-tech. The mountains were supposed to be impassable unless the neighbor agreed to allowing an invasion/interdictory/whatever future force in, which simply wasn't going to happen. So sometimes these blanket ignores hinder what might otherwise be an interesting RP.

This scenario could have worked with you both mentioning the jammers and the submarines, had you done the following:

You could have stated that the jammers were, in fact, Jammers, and were preventing scans of the ship and the area around it. While Menelmacar would be boarding the ships, discovering the jammers location, and stopping them, by that time your subs would have reached Belem undetected and would have surfaced, releasing their cargo of the smuggled elves. Menelmacar would have to scramble to stop them at this point but by that time the deed is done.

It's not impossible, nor is it illegal to use jammers or submarines as you have proposed, but you have to actually role play their use, and not just state that they were used after the fact. Because by not mentioning them at all, you are not giving Menelmacar a chance to role play with you, you are merely dictating what has happened, and what was done. That is bad form.

I think you are giving Menelmacar too little credit. Yes, she is future tech and yes, it would be hard for a modern-tech nation to break the interdiction, but you have to trust the person you are role-playing with to role play fairly, otherwise the role play will fail.

You were too quick to assume that by mentioning the presence of the submarines or the jammers, that Menelmacar would automatically find some way to stop them. By doing so, you didn't give her the chance to respond to them in a fair manner, and deprived yourself of what was otherwise good Role Play. See what I mean?

I might be giving Memelmacar too little credit, but as I said, the "Interdiction" would have always prevailed.

Suppose that I did mention the subs, and that I did have a Jammer that was blocking everything... now one easy way for Menelmacar to get out of this is to say:
Our sensors are quite advanced making my Jammers totally ineffective... this would also probably be true, as Esamopian tech. is nowhere near as advanced as Menelmacar's, but as you can see the whole gambit would be lost then and there.

Furthermore, with 20 miles between the Interdiction line and the coast, even if my submarines slipped by, they would certainly be detected and detained because a sub at that depth would probably be travelling at 20-30 knots, taking up to an hour to get Belem... in a previous post, in which Belem said that it would try to go as fast as it can to shore, Menelmacar responded that the fastest warship is 30-40 knots and that therefore Belem's vessel would take at least half an hour... a huge amount of time for a superweaponvessel thing to target and destroy (or capture) my subs.

The point I'm trying to make is that no matter what Menelmacar would win, simply because she is too advanced. Which brings up the point of whether RP-ing with Menelmacar-like nations is really futile? I'm leaning towards a yes.

You're still giving me far too little credit. I've been known on numerous occasions to take hits I logically shouldn't for the sake of good RP. Take for example the time I was kidnapped - the plan's success depended on being able to EMP the target area to knock out the sensors in my bodyguards' armor suits. Logically this wouldn't have worked, since Menelmacari computers use optronic rather than electronic circuitry, but I took the hit so the storyline could continue, and it turned out really good for both parties. I'm certainly not above letting a lower-tech jammer be effective for the sake of a better storyline.

~Siri

OOC:

Fair enough, Menelmacar. But how does that really change what he said? Highly advanced nations can, unless they are run by Pakleds, simply overwhelm a modern-tech nation 99% of the time unless the gap is much closer.

The idea that a plasma rifle, an AK-47 and a spear can all kill a person is true, but only to a certain degree.

OOC:

Fair enough, Menelmacar. But how does that really change what he said? Highly advanced nations can, unless they are run by Pakleds, simply overwhelm a modern-tech nation 99% of the time unless the gap is much closer.

The idea that a plasma rifle, an AK-47 and a spear can all kill a person is true, but only to a certain degree.

Exactly, there is a larger question here, although you mention that you can "allow" discrerencies such as an old jammer that competes with your technology... or "allowing" yourself to be kidnapped... yet this only underlines the huge difference in strength, in that you can win "99%" of the time and that the other nation has to rely on your whim in "allowing" things to happen that would harm you (because in RP rules you would be perfectly within your bounds to claim that the EMP pulse attack is useless or that the submarine would be discovered by super-advanced sensors.)

That is why the question of limiting interactions between such nations as yours with other similiarly advanced nations is a viable and serious question.

Frankly, I consider it pretentious, arrogant, and self-righteous in the extreme to talk about 'limiting' interaction. You made the decision to RP with me. That was your call. Nobody held a TRX-41 to the side of your head and forced you to type your posts.

~Siri

Frankly, I consider it pretentious, arrogant, and self-righteous in the extreme to talk about 'limiting' interaction. You made the decision to RP with me. That was your call. Nobody held a TRX-41 to the side of your head and forced you to type your posts.

~Siri

OOC: Frankly I don't give a damn!

On a more serious note, however, my question and comments regarding limited intercourse between ultratech and normal nations were towards all situations in general, not just the Melenmacar Interdiction.

As you well know, I requested that my involvement in the Interdiction be disregarded, most definitely not an "arrogant" action but actually rather humbling...