NationStates Jolt Archive

Several books, the Kingdom written by Sir Fernz Tor de Alicia in 1596, the Royal, the Cleric, the Lord, the Knight and the Peasant by Archbishop Duresi in 1659 and The King and the people by Terinz doriza in 1877 have led to the development of a theory of Regulated Feudal monarchy, a concept that dominates Teritoran political thinking.

The Feudal Monarchist Manifesto: a Guide to a Successful and Modern Feudal Monarchy

1. Allow the nobles their private armies but maintain an elite and powerful military loyal only to the Royal Family and unconfused by possibly confusing loyalties to the nobles and have enforced regulations over the noble’s forces and limit their size of their forces.

2. Militarism in society and culture is good as long is properly directed.

3. Organized Religion is good and should be encouraged; Catholicism or other highly organized churches are preferable.

4. Set up the Monarch and royal family as the champions of the people.

5. Control the schools and teach beside the normal courses, mandatory religious and military oriented classes. Put an emphasis on loyalty and duty to the nobles, the established faith and to the Monarch.

6. Glorify and teach Chivalry or other warrior traditions and aim to make it an important part of your people’s life and encourage traditionalism but do not allow it to impede progress.

7. be wary of socialists, communists, capitalists, Nazis, fascists, and anarchists.

8. Pass and enforce laws to protect the workers and peasants of the Kingdom.

9. Pass and enforce laws to protect the consumers as well as the businesses.

10. Carefully regulate the economy jointly with the church and encourage merchants and tradesmen.

11. Health care should be provided to the people and regliously run charities should be encouraged.

12. Keep a close relationship between church and state and both with the people.

13. The Family is sacred Institution ordained by God and should be protected and that children are one of God’s gifts to humanity and must be protected as well.

14. That there is such a thing as true evil and it is the duty of the king, the church and the nobles to protect the people from evil.

15. That a persons home is their castle and should be treated as such.

OOC:Questions, comments, Suggestions? If I think of any more I will add them or if someone has a suggestion I may add it.

OOC: Excellent! This would be perfect for my medieval feudal nation. -thumbs up-

Tagginess.

A Modern Fuedal Monarchy is just that, Futile.

So would the Grand Duchy of Alcona and Hubris be considered a Modern Feudal nation?

1)All freemen must be a member of the Milita or Proffesional military, each Baron, Landgrave, or Markgrave control of a local milita unit. However funding and regulations of these units is via parliment.

The proffesional military is controled through the Privy Council, specifically the Naval Marshall who is appointed by The Duke.

2) All members of the miltia, and military are taught that their duty is to the Crown and the People of Alcona and Hubris. All college educated individuals are trained to be officers of either the Proffesional military or the Milita.

3)No State Religion is used, the concept of divine right is considered idiotic. However, by tradition the Duke does have regular meetings with relgious leaders. The cult of Athena is very close to the Royal Household.

4)The Duke is the Head of the Judicary, he is the final word of justice for the people and is sworn by oath to 'protect the rights of the people'

5)Note item on 2.

6) Military codes of honor are inforced and duals to first blood are an excepted way of dealing with point of honor. Knighthoods are used to decorate military acheivement

7) We like capitalism, You just have to keep the rich traders and merchants happy and part of the political process. (Baronetts are useful)

8) The Vaux laws have all but obliterated peasentry and formed an underclass working society that has less responsiblities and less rights but can easily become a freeman.

However we have a Parliment and elections so are we just an odd form of constituional monarchy?

Funny, I wasn't a aware that we were futile, I would say Teritora was quite sucessful Feudal kingdom so we laugh at your statement Vladivostok Russia.

So would the Grand Duchy of Alcona and Hubris be considered a Modern Feudal nation?

1)All freemen must be a member of the Milita or Proffesional military, each Baron, Landgrave, or Markgrave control of a local milita unit. However funding and regulations of these units is via parliment.

The proffesional military is controled through the Privy Council, specifically the Naval Marshall who is appointed by The Duke.

2) All members of the miltia, and military are taught that their duty is to the Crown and the People of Alcona and Hubris. All college educated individuals are trained to be officers of either the Proffesional military or the Milita.

3)No State Religion is used, the concept of divine right is considered idiotic. However, by tradition the Duke does have regular meetings with relgious leaders. The cult of Athena is very close to the Royal Household.

4)The Duke is the Head of the Judicary, he is the final word of justice for the people and is sworn by oath to 'protect the rights of the people'

5)Note item on 2.

6) Military codes of honor are inforced and duals to first blood are an excepted way of dealing with point of honor. Knighthoods are used to decorate military acheivement

7) We like capitalism, You just have to keep the rich traders and merchants happy and part of the political process. (Baronetts are useful)

8) The Vaux laws have all but obliterated peasentry and formed an underclass working society that has less responsiblities and less rights but can easily become a freeman.

However we have a Parliment and elections so are we just an odd form of constituional monarchy?

Your a constitional monarchy with a strong Monarchial role.

bump

Also, pro-democratic reform people would be dangerous. Put that in with Socialists, Communists, Fascists, Nazis... ect...

Actually Fascists might be helpful to a monarchy, after all they preach everyone has their role and not to question it, just like feudalism needs.

OOC:Remembers old quote:
"The difrence between a communist and a facist is
One will shoot you in the back and say it was 'necessary',
the other will shoot you and laugh."

I'm not sure if Fudalism is much diffrent from either of those in real terms.

IC:
Hmm, so I should tell my oppostion party to stop calling my nation a Brutal Fudalistic Dictatorship? Or maybe I should show them the power of the Crown. Nah, I just make noises that make us look like the Imperials are going to take power and they will shut up...

I would write a Capitalist Manifesto, but I believe Adam Smith beat me to it. And then there is 'The Wealth of Nations'. I don't know who wrote that, but I'm sure I couldn't read it.

OOC: Well a Feudal Monarchy is not the same as an Total Monarchy where the Monarch controls everything. A Feudal goverment even on regulated like this doesn't have the total power that a communist, a facist, nazi or Total monarchy has over the country. the Monarch in a regulated feudal has a lot of control but not total control, he has to deal with his noble's and the church's politics still.

Basicly you just noted the balance of power within the Holy Roman Empire, but the Monarch lost most of his power in that nation after Otto I...

That was because of outside forces insuring that the will of the Emperor could not really be inforced after the 30 years war. The Monarch of this will have slightly more to surport him in keeping control over the nobles but he still will not have total control. After all that is where the rules come into play in helping him mentian his control.

Huh? Are we talking the same 30 years war here that I recall. Started in mid 17th century with the Elector of the Palantine being made King of Bohemia. Or are we talking about a diffrent 30 years war that involved the Otto I Holy Roman Emporer (ruled around 973 A.D.)

Sorry its late at night here, the Holy Roman Emperors did at for period time regained their power but after the 30 years war, their power was effective and permenantly killed never to return.

You forgot the most important thing about a successful feudal state: Hold regular archery contests. Why do you think the English creamed the french and destroyed 'the flower of french chivalry' at the Battle of Aubignion? Its all about peasants/yeomen that are effective when called to arms. =)

(I think i have the right battle... wow its been awhile). =P

What even the monarchists have a Plan for goverening their countries? bloody Teritorans with their beware of captalists. It going to hurt our profit margins and worse they don't a serious criminal underworld for us to sneak into. No we going to have to do legalmate business with them or not get any acess to their markets.

Herx Chairmen of Zerni Corp.

I like it!

:D

It is the battle of Agincourt.

<Royesse, Crown Lands>
It does the Royal heart good to see we are not alone, infested as this world is with Reds and Facisti.
We find that the citizenry do not question our Most Glorious Militaristic Majesty so long as we enforce the laws protecting them and keep the economy strong. People like being told what to do, and as our nation's aristocracy consists of 4 families related to the Royal Line and numerous life peers, the Crown can effectively do so.
Anyone can rise to government position here, we're far more open about such things than some so called democracys, and as for socialists and facisits, well, look at our civil rights compared to theirs.
As a monarch I'm aware of my duty to my subjects, as are my dukes and earls aware of their duties to their regions. No one starves on the street, but no one is shot for being an enemy of the people either.
We salute our Royal Kin in other lands and invite them to visit us sometime.
His Most Glorious Militaristic Majesty
Matthew XI

What even the monarchists have a Plan for goverening their countries? bloody Teritorans with their beware of captalists. It going to hurt our profit margins and worse they don't a serious criminal underworld for us to sneak into. No we going to have to do legalmate business with them or not get any acess to their markets.

Herx Chairmen of Zerni Corp.

This is coming from a country that is ruled by a Corporation that the only thing they don't sell is a few Illegal drugs and everything else is legal.

King Alern.

What even the monarchists have a Plan for goverening their countries? bloody Teritorans with their beware of captalists. It going to hurt our profit margins and worse they don't a serious criminal underworld for us to sneak into. No we going to have to do legalmate business with them or not get any acess to their markets.

Herx Chairmen of Zerni Corp.

This is coming from a country that is ruled by a Corporation that the only thing they don't sell is a few Illegal drugs and everything else is legal.

King Alern.

OOC:The server strikes again, its annoying when this happens, multipost.

Intresting... Queen Seria.

TAG

You forgot the most important thing about a successful feudal state: Hold regular archery contests. Why do you think the English creamed the french and destroyed 'the flower of french chivalry' at the Battle of Aubignion? Its all about peasants/yeomen that are effective when called to arms. =)

(I think i have the right battle... wow its been awhile). =P

Are you joking? The longbow was partially responsible for ending the feudal system.

You forgot the most important thing about a successful feudal state: Hold regular archery contests. Why do you think the English creamed the french and destroyed 'the flower of french chivalry' at the Battle of Aubignion? Its all about peasants/yeomen that are effective when called to arms. =)

(I think i have the right battle... wow its been awhile). =P

Are you joking? The longbow was partially responsible for ending the feudal system.

Errr... feudalism was no where close to dead in the 14th century in England. Now, the English longbow was responsible for the end of french feudalism, which only serves to prove my point. If you want a feudal system that will last, hold archery contests. The feudal system in England didn't stop till after the yeomen archery contests ended.

(The logical fallacy, overgeneralization, that occurs in the above, is merely for your entertainment).

OOC: I like it, got me thinking about the structure of my political system some more. Mines a corporate nationalist autocracy of course, but it has a lot in common with the feudal structure of society. Not to mention, with state socialism, which is where mine started out as. State socialism to corporate nationalism to.... neo-feudalism? Cybernetic theocracy? Hmm, thinking, thinking.

You forgot the most important thing about a successful feudal state: Hold regular archery contests. Why do you think the English creamed the french and destroyed 'the flower of french chivalry' at the Battle of Aubignion? Its all about peasants/yeomen that are effective when called to arms. =)

(I think i have the right battle... wow its been awhile). =P

Are you joking? The longbow was partially responsible for ending the feudal system.

Errr... feudalism was no where close to dead in the 14th century in England. Now, the English longbow was responsible for the end of french feudalism, which only serves to prove my point. If you want a feudal system that will last, hold archery contests. The feudal system in England didn't stop till after the yeomen archery contests ended.

(The logical fallacy, overgeneralization, that occurs in the above, is merely for your entertainment).

actually, all the long bow did was to end the age of Chivilary

Not really, Knights didn't start going off the battlefeild intil firearms become commonplace and cheaper because besides the english almost nobody had any effectively trained bowmen and only the English and other group effective used and traine in longbows.

OOC:I would prefer comments on the topic on hand here.

Hmmm. Yes. Perhaps you should take a look at my leaflet.

'The Code of Decensy; A leaflet of Worth and Goodness'

Here is the Link to it. Enjoy.

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=90629

Prime Minister Sir Charles Smith
His Majesty's Viceroy
The Commonwealth of Wollanda

my thats a unusal pamplet.

OOC:Wonder if I can get SeOOC to comment, it would be intresting to see what they think about it. They usually have something intresting and vaid to say.

OOC:Wonder if I can get SeOOC to comment, it would be intresting to see what they think about it. They usually have something intresting and vaid to say.

OOC:Wonder if I can get SeOOC to comment, it would be intresting to see what they think about it. They usually have something intresting and vaid to say.

Bah. These rules may work for a kingdom. What about a Principality?

You may or may not have to make changes but a Monarchy can be a Duchy, Queendom, Principality, the rules are not just for kingdoms.

bump for comments and sugestions.

ah... free time. sorry to Teritora for the delay, a bomb went off on the other side of town, panic at the school that we were next, that SATO thing, grading, whoa. now i post.

so i'd like to say that i feel uniquely qualified to comment on a modern feudal monarchy since i currently live in one, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. generally i think that monarchies are on the out, and will not survive globalization for a number of reasons i will comment on below. in NS it's possible (what isn't?) but i think it's going to be an interesting picture if you want to make it realistic.

also, when you say feudal i'm assuming you don't mean serfdom or that really old school stuff, but instead a system of entitlements for a noble class, not necessarily in land but in capital assets. i assume there is a labor market and international trade. if i'm wrong tell me.

1. Allow the nobles their private armies but maintain an elite and powerful military loyal only to the Royal Family and unconfused by possibly confusing loyalties to the nobles and have enforced regulations over the noble’s forces and limit their size of their forces.

yep. in KSA the special forces are all drawn from the kings own tribe.

2. Militarism in society and culture is good as long is properly directed.

3. Organized Religion is good and should be encouraged; Catholicism or other highly organized churches are preferable.

stuck these two together because they address the same point: feudalism is a culturally determinant system, just like KSM is an economic determinant system. there must be some unifying cultural element to keep the people both loyal and locked into the status quo. religion, nationalism, militarism, racism, all of these can unify a society. whichever you choose will change how your society looks, and some are naturally better than others, depending upon material and historical conditions. for instance, in a multi-cultural society with no clear ethnic majority, racism isn't going to work so well. in an athiestic country religion won't work duh duh duh. you get the point.

4. Set up the Monarch and royal family as the champions of the people.

yep, it's going on in Saudi right now. the royals are being set in contrast to the Al Queda bombers with the people caught as potential victims of the latter, if not for the vigilance of the king et al. this also serves to distract people from the rampant poverty that accompanies feudal property relations.

5. Control the schools and teach beside the normal courses, mandatory religious and military oriented classes. Put an emphasis on loyalty and duty to the nobles, the established faith and to the Monarch.

yep. every society does this; you've keyed in on the values that you want taught, but all societies socialize their children to support and continue their current policies.

6. Glorify and teach Chivalry or other warrior traditions and aim to make it an important part of your people’s life and encourage traditionalism but do not allow it to impede progress.

this i disagree with because it's been shown that traditionalism (conservativism in the literal sence, preserving the status quo) is in direct conflict with 'progress' in any real sense since progress requires change. for instance, if your country wants to expand its economy to provide more and better jobs or their people they're going to have to attact FDI, which is going to bring in foreign influences and foreign lifestyles. if you look at how Asia and Africa view America, which i might note has roughtly a 50% poverty rate (TG for details if necessary), they think everyone in America lives like those putzes on Friends, so of course they want to liberalize becaues they think it get's them Ross and Monica's apartment.

the problem is that your people WILL want a higher standard of living, there is no way around this, it's been shown time and time again in real case studies. something like chivarly will never survive the first wave of globalization, so you'll need to find something else to stand up to the cultural influence running amok in the rest of the world. clue: it's not religion either, even in Saudi, a repressive theocracy, change is coming.

7. be wary of socialists, communists, capitalists, Nazis, fascists, and anarchists.

yep, but you're going to have to trade with someone.

8. Pass and enforce laws to protect the workers and peasants of the Kingdom.

9. Pass and enforce laws to protect the consumers as well as the businesses.

bundled these two together because they both have the same flaw: the attempt to please two sides of a massively antagonistic relationship. workers and capital owners are in conflict, a zero sum game conflict, and aiding one hurts the other. the same with peasants and the king; how much is the king wiling to give to the people to pacify them?

in short, i'd like to see these laws.

10. Carefully regulate the economy jointly with the church and encourage merchants and tradesmen.

encourage mechants and tradesmen over what? i know you're playing a low tech nation (like the 50's i think you said, but that was ages ago), so how do your people live? international trade, are you developing your economy, if so where is the capital coming from etc etc. regulating the economy is important, as is subsidizing local business, but it doesn't solve the need for goods from overseas.

11. Health care should be provided to the people and regliously run charities should be encouraged.

absolutely; this goes to the core of the feudal obligations of the Lord of the Manor.

12. Keep a close relationship between church and state and both with the people.

yep, though as noted above any unifying cultural influence will do.

13. The Family is sacred Institution ordained by God and should be protected and that children are one of God’s gifts to humanity and must be protected as well.

wish i had my Marx-Engels reader with me; of course he was an athiest and said religion is the opiate of the masses so coudln't get it past customs. Engels wrote an essay on the origin of the (then) modern family, this is my comment. if you can, read it.

14. That there is such a thing as true evil and it is the duty of the king, the church and the nobles to protect the people from evil.

absolutely, it distracts the people from how badly they're oppressed.

15. That a persons home is their castle and should be treated as such.

dunno how you're going to work this, since a feudal society leaves the peasants with no private property rights. how can they have their home sacred when they don't own it?

so my opinion: it's good but doesn't address some key issues, like the exact political and economic institutions of the country. for instance, are there barons and vassals, or is it just the king? would these barons act like state governors or as advisors to the king? do the citizens have a guarnateed set or rights or entitlements? how is your economy run?

you're also up against the biggest problem: you're trying to make realistic something that cannot be done in real life. of course i love challenges so i understand the appeal, if you have questions or comments i remain happy to help/comment if you can wait a day or two since i like to actually give thought to stuff like this.

OOC:Of course, thats why I wanted you to post, personally I would say Abolute monarchies are out and true Feudal monarchies realisicly would suffer hands of other nations who would take advange of them like one would take advange of the even more divided Confedracy. The last true feudal country was the Austrian-Hungarian empire which was done in mainly by world war one and the death of the old emperor who being alive was the only thing holding it together since because of the war his sucessor couldn't get the same repect.

Teritora has at the top, the king, then the land is divided into 7 principalities, below that are 20 dukes, under each duke 10 Earls, under each earl, 5 barons, under the barons are heredity knights then the commoners, people do own. What I mean by traditionalism would deal with the culture of the country, making people proud of their cultural heritage even as progress comes and what is wrong with Chivalry? It’s a good code to live by. In the US where I live there are still people who consider honor to be important.

Teritora internal Major Teritoran industries include iron, copper, gold, Sliver, Platinum and precious gem mining, Wine, software industry, movies, Auto industry, Aerospace industries, Electronics Industry, Computers, Various manufactured goods, Farming, Dragon meat industry, oil, Steel Industry, weapons manufacture and various defense industries. We do most of our trading with the Ur Trade Pact, our allied nations of the IDI and with our other alliances but we do produce and manufacture most of what we need.

Teritora lends towards a Regulated feudal system but its more like a mix mash of Medieval and renaissance Political, economy, and religious thought, some socialism, some democracy and a little capitalism thrown into the mix that could only come from 5,000 years of monarchism adapting to changing times.

Besides the feudal hierarchy, you have the Royal counsel, The Royal Senate and Parliament. The Royal Counsel directly advise the king and consists of high ranking military, government and church officials as well as other people who have generally proven themselves to be wise in governing and honorable. The Royal Senate is consists of 8,547 senators who are elected for life, baring unmoral and dishonorable behavior, from the 8,547 great houses. They generally make can laws, affecting domestic affairs of state as can the king but their power is limited by Parliament, They also chose the next king of Teritora and send them on the test to prove their courage. Parliament raises taxes for national affairs, can try senators and remove them for unmoral and dishonorable behavior and they have to approve of the king’s wife before he can even marry. (Yes, they get to control who he marries). It consists of two houses, an upper house of bishops, visor, Mother superiors, abbots and heredity knights and a lower house elected for two year terms by the commoners.

OOC:I will go into more detail about Teritora in the fact book I am working on which will answer most likely even more questions about Teritora, its culture, society and political system and other details.

bump