NationStates Jolt Archive

Official Press release from Chief Minister for Secularism, Otto von Bësmaerk
"Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. I have excellent news for you. Today, the last Edolian Baptist Church in the canton of Tetelburg filed for bankruptcy yesderday due to lack of funds. Unable to pay its taxes, the land was seized by government agents. This marks an important turning point in the war on religion. Christianity is falling from favor and out of nearly one billion Edolians, an estimated 5,000,000 still worship the Cult of Christ in its various forms. Since the founding of the modern state of Edolia, a national war on religion was declared and since the founding, the number of Secularists in Edolia has skyrocketed. From 40% when our nation was founded, the percentage of Secularists in our great Empire has over doubled to 94%. But the war is not yet over. There are still large populations of Jews and Muslims and the Mormon and Episcapalian Churchs are even growing. Some within the government have suggested that religion be outlawed but the Imperätor has assured us that we shall continue our conversion attempts using lawful and morally sound means. With the closure of the last Baptist Church, we have turned our attention towards the Lutherans, Episcapalians and Mormons. The former is nearly bankrupt but the latter will be difficult as they hold great support in many parts of the Tetelburg cantons. I believe that the war on religion may soon be over. Now... any questions?"

The Nation of Sydia disaprooves of this violation of religious freedom and hopes that Edolia will re-consider thier stance on religious practices.

Sydian Minister of Foreign Affairs.

The Nation of Sydia disaprooves of this violation of religious freedom and hopes that Edolia will re-consider thier stance on religious practices.

Sydian Minister of Foreign Affairs.

Message
To: Sydian Minister of Foreign Affairs
From: Edolian Ministry for Secularism
Text: Edolia's policy regarding religion is that, as the great Marx wrote, it is the opiate of the masses. It must be eliminated from Edolia if we are to have a stable and functioning state. However, under no circumstances do we engage in repression of our people's rights and no military or police action has been taken against religious groups. Our stance is to eliminate it through government public service campaigns. This so far has been very effective and we believe that it will eventually win us this "war."

The Nation of Sydia disaprooves of this violation of religious freedom and hopes that Edolia will re-consider thier stance on religious practices.

Sydian Minister of Foreign Affairs.

Message
To: Sydian Minister of Foreign Affairs
From: Edolian Ministry for Secularism
Text: Edolia's policy regarding religion is that, as the great Marx wrote, it is the opiate of the masses. It must be eliminated from Edolia if we are to have a stable and functioning state. However, under no circumstances do we engage in repression of our people's rights and no military or police action has been taken against religious groups. Our stance is to eliminate it through government public service campaigns. This so far has been very effective and we believe that it will eventually win us this "war."

The Nation of Sydia is thankful that no opression of people who practise religion is taking place and as such has no concern about the methods being used. However we still take the stance that the people of your nation should have religious freedom, but this is your decision and as such we hope you continue fair treatment of those who do have religious beliefs.

Sydian Minister of Foreign Affairs.

Our Catholic Church is too rich and corrupt to be bankrupted.

Queen of Jeruselem
Keeper of the Holy Lands
http://www.whoosh.org/issue28/direct/penelope.jpg

Whilst we are indifferent to collapse of the Baptist Church, we'd like to know how the Catholic Church in Edolia is going.

Jacques Cardinal Conomos
Archbishop of New Rome
Holy Empire of Pantocratoria

THe government of Thelas offers asilum to any religous people with in Edolia, we accsept any religion, as long as it does not infringe on the rights of non-beleivers.

[Communication from Daecon]

You should consider allowing The Church of The Word to spread and to grow in your nation so that your people may hear The Word and be Synchronized to the Perfection of The Lady.

[Communication Ends]


http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~ifex534/deacon.jpg
Daecon: Advisor to the Lady and
High Priest of The Church of The Word
There Is Only One, And The One Is Daemon
The Dominion of Synchronized

The Holy Empire of Pantocratoria extends the same invitation to any Catholics fleeing Edolia.

The Government of Zedra extends to any Catholics free housing and a place of employment.


"We condem this action by the heathens and worshipers of the Devil to expunge the power and the message of God"

--Cardinal Cedrick
Leader of the Church of Zedra

Whilst we are indifferent to collapse of the Baptist Church, we'd like to know how the Catholic Church in Edolia is going.

Jacques Cardinal Conomos
Archbishop of New Rome
Holy Empire of Pantocratoria

You should know, nothing can drive out the catholic church out of an area completely, the Chinese and other communists have certainly tried and failed do so, heck the Soviets couldn't kill the Orothodox church. You attack a reglion even by so called 'public service campaigns', churches just go underground.

If Edolian jews and Catholics feel threatened, please come to Jeruselem where you are welcome.

Queen of Jeruselem
Keeper of the Holy Lands
http://www.whoosh.org/issue28/direct/penelope.jpg

Whilst we are indifferent to collapse of the Baptist Church, we'd like to know how the Catholic Church in Edolia is going.

Jacques Cardinal Conomos
Archbishop of New Rome
Holy Empire of Pantocratoria

You should know, nothing can drive out the catholic church out of an area completely, the Chinese and other communists have certainly tried and failed do so, heck the Soviets couldn't kill the Orothodox church. You attack a reglion even by so called 'public service campaigns', churches just go underground.

We know, we are just determining whether the Church in Edolia could use any extra funds to assist them if times are rough.

Jacques Cardinal Conomos

Of course, we got a simliar intrest then.

Archbishop James of New Todor City

The Edolian Catholic population has always been very low and is estimated at approximately 100,000 people in the country, mostly in small farms and plantations around Tetelburg city.

Again, we wish to reiterate that Edolia has a policy of religious freedom for all people. We view religion the same way that the average American views smoking --tax it and denounce it but don't infringe on the rights of the people.

The Church in Pantocratoria will pay all outstanding debts the Catholic Church in Edolia may have. Furthermore, Pantocratorian donations will pay for the building or renovation of 100 new churches, to help the Edolian Catholic community survive, grow, and face the future. The Church in Pantocratoria will also provide any priests or other clergymen or women as required to assist the Edolian Catholic community.

Jacques Cardinal Conomos
Archbishop of New Rome

While Mintar would like to issue a statement to Edolia that we feel their funds could be used more effectively elsewhere, it is Edolia's descision and perfectly within their rights as they are not forcing any religion change.

To those offering sanctuaries to "fleeing" Edolia Christians, you must realize that, as Edolia is not in any way opressing them, there are very few Christians "fleeing" Edolia for other lands. To those condemning Edolia for a lack of religious freedom, see above.

(OOC: It seems like I've said that somewhere before...)

While Mintar would like to issue a statement to Edolia that we feel their funds could be used more effectively elsewhere, it is Edolia's descision and perfectly within their rights as they are not forcing any religion change.

To those offering sanctuaries to "fleeing" Edolia Christians, you must realize that, as Edolia is not in any way opressing them, there are very few Christians "fleeing" Edolia for other lands. To those condemning Edolia for a lack of religious freedom, see above.

(OOC: It seems like I've said that somewhere before...)

We understand that, but the cultural dynamics of being in a minority can mean that bigotry against you can exist even if it isn't government endorse. For those Edolian Catholics who seek to escape that "minority stigma" (and we don't expect many will), our doors are open.

We do not regard Edolia in the same way as (Nazi) Camdean was more agressive and very defensive about his decision. We still regard Edolia as tolerant, but our offer to people who feel persecuted still stands.

The news of the last Edolian Baptist church closing is of great disturb to the World Baptist Alliance *WBA*

If the Baptist population is any great problem to your nation, they would be welcome to WBA member nations. We'll pay for shipping, and guarantee their right to live free under God's kingdom.

Signed,

Richard Carter
The Gulf States Baptist Convention
Albany, Gulfport, TGS

Frank Salinas
Flocarga and Delmarva Baptist Convention
Columbia, South Carolina, F&D

Allanean Ministry of Foreign Affairs Official Statement:

While our nation is of no great religious inclination, we abhor suppression of religious freedom, either directly or indirectly. Is there a way in which Edolian officials could be persuaded to keep the church open? We may, if you wish, pay their taxes for them.

We'll be confident in the fact the remaining Edolian Baptists are congregating in private homes, or renting space with private money, to continue services and worshipping the Lord.

I doubt the faith will die with the last "official" church closing.

Allanean Ministry of Foreign Affairs Official Statement:

While our nation is of no great religious inclination, we abhor suppression of religious freedom, either directly or indirectly. Is there a way in which Edolian officials could be persuaded to keep the church open? We may, if you wish, pay their taxes for them.

We have no problem with any other nation paying their taxes for them. It matters not to us so long as we get our money. We do not differentiate between churches and private business in terms of taxation so occasionally our churches have problems paying their taxes. And we must reiterate that there is no suppression of religious freedom going on in Edolia. We are merely educating the supersticous. <<OCC: God, I can't spell today.>>

How much for how long then?

Allanean Ministry of Foreign Affairs Official Statement:

While our nation is of no great religious inclination, we abhor suppression of religious freedom, either directly or indirectly. Is there a way in which Edolian officials could be persuaded to keep the church open? We may, if you wish, pay their taxes for them.

We have no problem with any other nation paying their taxes for them. It matters not to us so long as we get our money. We do not differentiate between churches and private business in terms of taxation so occasionally our churches have problems paying their taxes. And we must reiterate that there is no suppression of religious freedom going on in Edolia. We are merely educating the supersticous. <<OCC: God, I can't spell today.>>

While we don't see how a parallel can be drawn between religious organisations and private businesses in terms of how they collect and spend money, and therefore don't see how taxes could be evenly applied to both, we are happy to pay the taxes of the relatively small Edolian Catholic Church. Do you also tax charities, by chance?

Jacques Cardinal Conomos
Archbishop of New Rome

Allanean Ministry of Foreign Affairs Official Statement:

While our nation is of no great religious inclination, we abhor suppression of religious freedom, either directly or indirectly. Is there a way in which Edolian officials could be persuaded to keep the church open? We may, if you wish, pay their taxes for them.

We have no problem with any other nation paying their taxes for them. It matters not to us so long as we get our money. We do not differentiate between churches and private business in terms of taxation so occasionally our churches have problems paying their taxes. And we must reiterate that there is no suppression of religious freedom going on in Edolia. We are merely educating the supersticous. <<OCC: God, I can't spell today.>>

right... Well we are willing to cover any differences that the remaining churches can't pay.

OOC:Hmm Percsuction by taxation, I got to remember that for later RPs.

OOC:Hmm Percsuction by taxation, I got to remember that for later RPs.

Nothing original. See NFA-34.

We actually do not have charities in Edolia. Some 97% of all property is owned by the government, the remainder being businesses owned by non-citizens or other foreign interests. That 3% also includes some churches. The government generally gives out large amounts of money to foreign charities in the form of aid and since almost every facet of life in Edolia is taken care of by the government, there is really no need for Edolian charities. However, we tax all non-government owned properties, including churches non-government charities on Edolian soil (of which there are but a few) .

We estimate that paying for the taxes of the Edolian Catholic church would cost approximately $412,000 a year. To pay the taxes of all Edolian churches would come out to $125,000,000 a year. Not very much for a large, foreign nation.

Indeed and we are willing do so gladly.

We actually do not have charities in Edolia. Some 97% of all property is owned by the government, the remainder being businesses owned by non-citizens or other foreign interests. That 3% also includes some churches. The government generally gives out large amounts of money to foreign charities in the form of aid and since almost every facet of life in Edolia is taken care of by the government, there is really no need for Edolian charities. However, we tax all non-government owned properties, including churches non-government charities on Edolian soil (of which there are but a few) .

We estimate that paying for the taxes of the Edolian Catholic church would cost approximately $412,000 a year. To pay the taxes of all Edolian churches would come out to $125,000,000 a year. Not very much for a large, foreign nation.

Pantocratoria will gladly pay the taxes for the Catholic Church in Edolia, in addition to the support we have previous pledged to help the Edolian Catholic Church build new churches, and to provide the Edolian Catholic Church with priests and other clergy.

Jacques Cardinal Conomos
Archbishop of New Rome

To the Government of Edolia,

The Government of the Holy Empire of Excalbia is prepared to pay the tax burden for any Christian church or Jewish congregation in your nation. We will also offer funds to repair and maintain any churches in your land. We also have a number of Christian missionaries of all denominations, as well as a several rabbis, who are prepared to travel to Edolia under a Government grant (we will pay their taxes as well) to minister to their believers. We are also prepared to grant refugee status to anyone of any religion (Christian or not) who wishes to flee your policies.

Regards,
Albert Cummings,
Minister of State,
for His Imperial Majesty, David IV

The Free Market States of Pilot
Statement to Edolia

This behavior is unacceptable from an ally. Overtaxing a religious institution simply because it happens to be one is an indirect violation of the civil rights your government claims to protect. Using politics against religious institutions is a violation of civil rights. Any organization, as long as it is not militant, should be allowed to practice freely without fear of an overwhelming tax burden. We are disappointed to see your government celebrating such an event, one that should be seen as a detremental effect on your nation's morale. The dismantlement of anyone's freedom should never be a government objective. As a member of an international alliance against the oppression of all people, we see your actions as making you hypocritical of that mission.

The Free Market States of Pilot
Statement to Edolia

This behavior is unacceptable from an ally. Overtaxing a religious institution simply because it happens to be one is an indirect violation of the civil rights your government claims to protect. Using politics against religious institutions is a violation of civil rights. Any organization, as long as it is not militant, should be allowed to practice freely without fear of an overwhelming tax burden. We are disappointed to see your government celebrating such an event, one that should be seen as a detremental effect on your nation's morale. The dismantlement of anyone's freedom should never be a government objective. As a member of an international alliance against the oppression of all people, we see your actions as making you hypocritical of that mission.

To our allies in Pilot: There is no overtaxation. We tax them the same as any other privately owned properties. We just do not practice the foolish policies of giving them tax-exemption that many, more religious nations do.

Sure... well there will no more churches closing because they can't pay your so called fair taxes as it as been seen other nations are taking up the tab of the costs and we will join those nations in doing so.

The Free Market States of Pilot
Statement to Edolia

This behavior is unacceptable from an ally. Overtaxing a religious institution simply because it happens to be one is an indirect violation of the civil rights your government claims to protect. Using politics against religious institutions is a violation of civil rights. Any organization, as long as it is not militant, should be allowed to practice freely without fear of an overwhelming tax burden. We are disappointed to see your government celebrating such an event, one that should be seen as a detremental effect on your nation's morale. The dismantlement of anyone's freedom should never be a government objective. As a member of an international alliance against the oppression of all people, we see your actions as making you hypocritical of that mission.

To our allies in Pilot: There is no overtaxation. We tax them the same as any other privately owned properties. We just do not practice the foolish policies of giving them tax-exemption that many, more religious nations do.

< To the Edolian Embassy >
And your taxation on private business is also a reduction of personal freedoms. You cannot use that as an excuse.

It is almost impossible to understand how a Church could be taxed the same way a business is. A Church has no source of income other than donations. The only way the Church makes money is through gifts from individuals or organisations. Are gifts taxed in Edolia? If Constantine Citizen gives Anna Citizen a bouquet of flowers he picked from his own garden, does he have to pay a tax of a certain percentage of the flowers to the Edolian government?

A business can clearly be taxed on its sources of revenue, such as sales, but the only way to tax a Church's sources of income is to put a tax on gifts. If you do not tax gifts in general, and only tax donations to the Church, then you are specifically going out of your way to tax religious institutions, as opposed to simply "taxing them like everyone else."

The Church in Pantocratoria is extremely interested as to what exactly about a religious institution is taxed in Edolia.

Jacques Cardinal Conomos
Archbishop of New Rome

To Pilot: Then most nations in the world are guilty of violating those personal freedoms, are they not?

To Pantocratoria: Land values in Edolia are extremely high. They pay land taxes. We generally do not tax gifts but in any situation where the church is making money through a business of some sort we tax that too.

In a shock move, the Catholic Church of Jeruselem exercised direct control over a small Church of Jeruselem in Edolia. The local Priest was found to be stealing money from the church and left the church unable to pay bills and debts. Latin Patriarch of Jeruselem appointed a new priest and sent a team of accountants to fix the situation. Real debts of $US 500,000 were found and dealings with corrupt local official were found.

The corrupt priest is to be returned to Jeruselem and tried by Inquisition. The Catholic Church of Jeruselem will pay outstanding debts and fix the situation. A new church building will be erected as the previous was one in disrepair.

In a shock move, the Catholic Church of Jeruselem exercised direct control over a small Church of Jeruselem in Edolia. The local Priest was found to be stealing money from the church and left the church unable to pay bills and debts. Latin Patriarch of Jeruselem appointed a new priest and sent a team of accountants to fix the situation. Real debts of $US 500,000 were found and dealings with corrupt local official were found.

The corrupt priest is to be returned to Jeruselem and tried by Inquisition. The Catholic Church of Jeruselem will pay outstanding debts and fix the situation. A new church building will be erected as the previous was one in disrepair.

A message has been sent to the priest in question, a man by the name of Father Lazarus von Eliburg:

"You have two options. The first is to submit to the law of the Church of Jerusalem. The Edolian government will not stand in your way. You also have the option of being tried in Edolia. Our laws are perhaps less harsh than those of Jerusalem when it comes to matters of corruption among members of the clergy. The choice is up to you. You are in no way obligated to submit to Jerusalem."

<<OOC: I'll let you RP the priest but I would imagine that he would want to stay in Edolia. In general, since private property is extremely rare, theft is not punished very harshly. We view it as one of the hazards to having valubles. He would probably get a few years in prison.>>

1 billob dollars have been wired to Edolia in payment of the aforementioned taxes.

In a shock move, the Catholic Church of Jeruselem exercised direct control over a small Church of Jeruselem in Edolia. The local Priest was found to be stealing money from the church and left the church unable to pay bills and debts. Latin Patriarch of Jeruselem appointed a new priest and sent a team of accountants to fix the situation. Real debts of $US 500,000 were found and dealings with corrupt local official were found.

The corrupt priest is to be returned to Jeruselem and tried by Inquisition. The Catholic Church of Jeruselem will pay outstanding debts and fix the situation. A new church building will be erected as the previous was one in disrepair.

A message has been sent to the priest in question, a man by the name of Father Lazarus von Eliburg:

"You have two options. The first is to submit to the law of the Church of Jerusalem. The Edolian government will not stand in your way. You also have the option of being tried in Edolia. Our laws are perhaps less harsh than those of Jerusalem when it comes to matters of corruption among members of the clergy. The choice is up to you. You are in no way obligated to submit to Jerusalem."

<<OOC: I'll let you RP the priest but I would imagine that he would want to stay in Edolia. In general, since private property is extremely rare, theft is not punished very harshly. We view it as one of the hazards to having valubles. He would probably get a few years in prison.>>

You are right ... excommunication, repayment of stolen funds and 10 years in a nice prison (with some mean people).

After creating our Earth Colony, the Nigashar people have often encountered the phenomenon of 'Religion'.
While personal spiritualism is very normal and understandable, the concept of organised religion seems restricting to our people. Everyone should have the freedom of experiencing spiritualism in his/her own way.

In my opinion, and that of our people, religion is irrational.


-Nyerguds
Tzurnashh ofInterplanetary Invasions,
Earth Colony of the Planet Nigashar