NationStates Jolt Archive

No bombings, assassinations or any other disruptions will be tolerated. These will be ignored due to patrols by Milesian special forces (the Army Ranger Wing), over-flights by fighters and high scanner security.

{Begin open, unsecured transmission}

Though the world seems to be divided into two main camps, the World Business Organisation (WBO) and it’s Capitalists, and the Coalition of Anti-Capitalist Economies (CACE) and it’s Socialist/Communists. There is, however, a much larger force, an unharnessed potential but potentially extremely powerful. This group dwarves the WBO and CACE

Economically non-aligned nations make up the vast majority of the world economy, with a combined economy of thousands of trillions of credits. Thousands of economies that have small and local agreements could come together to form another way.

This invitation is to all non-aligned economies, and aligned ones too. We wish to go about creating another way, one which will improve all economies and will benefit all economies, from Imploded to Fragile to Frightening.

We are inviting you to come to Milesia to talk on this subject and to hopefully hammer out an agreement.

All arriving planes/space vehicles may fly to 125.149.851 and from there, they will be escorted to the Rath an Gealach (the Citadel of the Moon), where the meeting will take place.

{End transmission}

Finance Minister John Whyte's aircraft takes off from Goobergunch City Airport.

DIPLOMATIC COMMUNIQUE {
From: Goobergunchia
To: Milesia
{
Goobergunchia intends to attend this conference. We are sending Finance Minister John Whyte.

We therefore request clearance for Nugla One to enter Milesian airspace.
} }

{Begin transmission]
{This is DANA}

{You are cleared to enter Milesian airspace, please proceed to the designated co-ordinated. You may bring your own security if you wish. You will be escorted from there to Rath na Gealach

{End transmission}

"Hmm...interesting."
"That's just what I thought, Premier."

Qatra Jiang waited patiently for Premier Suun to make up his mind.

"Very well Qatra. Take one of the Lear Jets and go to this meeting. If nothing comes of it, well, at least it was worth a look."

A few hours later, Qatra boarded one of the Marimaian government's Lear Jets with a five-man security detachment and took off. He didn't know quite what to expect, but if it could benefit Marimaia, it was worth investigating.

As the Marimaia jet began to approach Milesian airspace, DANA began the standard approach transmission, giving co-ordinates and instructions.

{Welcome to Milesian, we hope you'll enjoy the stay and that we can make the most of this conferance. We thank you for taking up our offer}

A few hours later...

Nugela One approaches the co-ordinates of 125.149.851.

The jet contains:
Fin. Min. Whyte
His Policy Assistant (Craig Kelbas)
His Administrative Assistant (Emily Chars)
and six Goobergunchian Security Corps members,
as well as the pilot and crew of the airplane.

#Tag#

Ohhhhh, my first tag :D


Waiting at the co-ordinates were:
Cathal Ó Séagdha, 2nd Tigern, Milesian External Office
Michael Ó Ichide, 3rd Tigern, Milesian Economic Office

These 2 men would be the main participants from Milesia at the conference and would represent all Milesian business interests. Obviously is any deal was to be reached, these are the ones who are authorised to sign up.

As the Goobergunchian delegates got off the plane, the 2 Milesian gave them a hearty handshake and welcomed them to Milesia, and to the conferance.

"Gentlemen, we'll take an AirTram to the conferance, if you don't mind. They are much like street trams, they just fly instead. After you" said Cathal, "this way please."

The 2 delegations boarded the AirTram and were soon zipping off towards Rath na Gealach.

"So," said Whyte, "what will be the main focus of this conference? I'm curious to hear your economic ideas. We're working on economic stimulus at home, but it's not going as well as we would have hoped."

To: Milesia

From: DF-CG (Department of Finance, Canada-Germany)

Subject: Re: A conference for non-economically aligned nations

Text:

This idea and caught our interest. Is more information avalible on what the meeting hopes to accomplish?

(OOC: Tag.)

"Well we are a Capitalist country, though at the same time we recognise that there are many Socialist and Communist countries out there too.

We personally have would like to draw up proposals for free trade amongst the countries who attend, as well as drawing up some proposals for creating a bank for our organisation, perhaps a common currency and most certainly an investment procedure to allow weaker economies to benefit from the conferance.

Have you any specific ideas that you'll bring to the table?"

{Transmission to Canada-Germany}

The general idea is to create a trading block for both Capitalist and non-Capitalist countries, to create ways in which the richer countries can invest and help the smaller, weaker economies.

{End transmission}

Diplomat Spencer Campbell set off for Milesia from Yankovic International Airport. Not knowing what to expect in the meeting, Mr. Campbell was given the instructions to observe the meeting and use it to get Yankovic involved in the international community.

"Although Goobergunchia has outlawed private industry, we are considering reinstating it. We would be supportive of a free trade pact as long as environmental and labor rights are upheld.

We'd actually be interested in looking at international labor standards, as well as environmental impact requirements."

{Transmission to Yankovic plane}

{We would like to extend our welcome to the delegates who are currently en-route to the conferance. We wish to make it clear that all nations are welcome to participate, regardless of economic philosophy. You are, of course, most welcome to observe as you wish}

{End transmission}

When you arrive, Mr. Campbell will be welcomed by 3rd Tigern Colm Golden who'll escort you the the Rath to meet other particpants.

To: Milesia

From: DF-CG (Department of Finance, Canada-Germany)

Subject: Re: A conference for non-economically aligned nations

Test:

Ah, I see. Well, expect a delegate from C-G comming your way soon then.

{Begin transmission}

We are most pleased to hear that, please procede to the given co-ordinates to be met by our representatives

{End transmission}

OOC: I gotta go people, keep yourselves going if you please, will be back tomorrow.

Within a few hours Mr. Campbell's airplane lands without incident at the coordinates. The Diplomat locates Colm Golden with relative ease, and engages in the usual small talk on the way to the meeting.

Treasurer-Secretary of Trade Matthew Griffith is being transported by tilt-rotor to the coordinates, and should arrive within six hours.

We would be honoured to attend this meeting.

Rosa Almedia
People's representative for co-operatives & economic affairs

---

Almedia and a small team of advisers boarded the state blimp, the Kapal Terbang (flying ship) "Jerry Cornelius," and awaited permission to land in Milesia.

The Marimaian jet touches down, and Qatra makes his way out, flanked by his bodyguards. He notes the other aircraft that have already arrived, then makes his way over to a smartly dressed group of Milesians. After some brief discussion, they start making their way to the meeting place.

OOC: We are a member of the WBO. Does that mean we are not allowed to come? :(

We will be sending a delegation to the meeting.

Three fighters and a small Jet Airliner dart from a military airbase carrying CG's delegate to the meeting area.

A small craft lands at a landing field and the Pilonese delegation leaves the shuttle. They have arrived.

^kick^

Knootoss
Nope, you are welcome to attend, the whole point is for this to be a unifying organisation. I was a member myself for a while actually :D


{Transmission to Kapal Terbang}

You have to permission to enter our airspace, please make your way to the set co-ordinates where you'll be met by a small group of Milesian diplomats. You will then be escorted to meet with all the other delegates who have arrived.

{End transmission}


Cathal Ó Séagdha had made his way back to the meeting point by AirTram in order to meet with Matthew Griffith, the Copiosa Scotia delegate to the conference, as well as the Pilonese and Canada-Germany delegations.

In the meantime the Marimaian delegation and they're Milesian counter-parts had made their way to Rath na Gealach

{Open transmission}

We would like to start the conference soon, would any nations who wish to send delegates and have not yet, please dispatch them now.

Thanking you
DANA

(End transmission}

El kicko!

El kicko!

Hey...I'm not the only one that uses "kick", not "bump"!

This has been an OOC post.

bump

bump

The fighters soon break away from the Jet, leaving it to it's 30 minute flight through Milesia airspace.

Soon, the airport comes on to radar and the plane starts to decend. It's Landing gear lowers slowly until a second before touch down, it has fulling appeared.

Gently, the plane lands and for a short while, taxi's on the runway. Finally, it stops near the Milesia welcome party and the cockpit door opens. The pilot hops from the plane to the ground carrying a single suitcase and a duffle bag.
In stature he is small, but seems energetic.

"Hi, I'm Andrew Tan, here for the Trade meeting. Someone wanna grab a pilot and taxi my plane to a hanger somewhere?"

The Pilonese Delegation begins to inquire on the location of the trade meeting.

Cathal observed the man, before slowly replying in perfect English (it not being Milesia's main language) "I'm sure we can get someone to deal with your plane Mr.....Tan, yes, Andrew Tan." His reply was tinged slightly with an almost questioning tone, having not previously known who the delegate was, an advantage of being Milesian, he supposed, being born with varying degrees of empathic and psionic powers.


Cathal waves to a nearby pilot to taxi the plane off the runway. The delegations board the AirTram and land back in the capital in record time.
The pilot was obviously trying to impress the 2 delegations, and he's succeeded.

Both groups hurry into the main hall of the Rath

At least the Rath is spectacular and interesting-looking; formed from
rock and metal, it looks quite unlike any other structure you'd most likely been in so far. The most prominent features are the rippled carvings covering the outer walls, especially around the entranceway.
Inside, the motif continues: the walls are covered with grooves of
various depths and patterns. Some portions of the wall are bare; most are
decorated.

"Gentlemen and women, welcome to Rath na Gealach, the Citadel of the Moon. Today we start this conference for the possible creation of a trading block to unite both Capitalist and anti-Capitalist. We look forward to hearing everyone's ideas on how to go about it, and we have our own too. Now we don't want to totally run the proceedins so if someone would like to speak first on the topic at hand? I throw the floor open to you" Cathal said as he waved his hand in an inviting motion.

I would like to attend the conference. It sounds fascinating, and the idea has great potential. I will be travelling aboard the Menelmacari diplomatic frigate Eldahossë Minë.

~Lady Serindë nos Eärendil
Menelmacari Prefect of Trade

This concept interests me. Please accept my request to visit the conference. I hope to be accepted into the talks.

--

S. Delendre
Chairman of the High Council
Vortex Corporation

{Open CommLine to Eldahossë Minë}

{CommLine established}

{Begin transmission}

We would be most appreciative of your attendance Lady Serinde (OOC: How'd you do the umlauf(sp?)), if you would please follow to guiding co-ordinates provided (125.149.851 ). From there you will be taken by AirTram to Rath na Gaelach

D.A.N.A.

{End transmission}

{Close Commline}

We seem to attract WBO members, I wonder what that's about ;)


{Open CommLine to Vortex Corporation}

{Commline established}

{Begin transmission}

You are most welcome to attend Mr. Delendre, you may bring security with you if you deem it necessary. Please follow the co-ordinates provided
125.149.851

D.A.N.A

{End transmission}

{Close Commline}

Thank you very much for your kind invitation. We are looking forward to attending the conference. I will be arriving in the frigate "Talish" as soon as possible. Please note I will be escorted by a small guard of Battlemages, to ensure the safety of the attendants of the conference.

--

S. Delendre.

OOC: Honestly, people start replying to it when I need to go offline, and when I won't be on tomorrow. I presume someone will keep this going in the meantime, I'd like to keep any major decisions off until I return, if that's ok)

That is acceptable. Though we guarantee security, we would like you to keep the number below say...6 if possible, we'd like to keep numbers of non-delegates (especially armed ones) down.

We await your arrival Mr. Delendre.

D.A.N.A.

The Pilonese Delegation consists of an Ambassador and 4 guards, they bear no weapons.

We are eager to begin the conference. As one of the Socialist Nations of NS we are intrigued by the possibility of opening up trade relations with our Capitalist neighbors, perhaps we will even permit some to send their products into our country and allow for competition with our national products.

Cathal rose slowly, surveyed the room before catching the Pilonese delegate's eye. He spoke succinctly and carefully/

"That, my good sir, was the general point of the conference. Nations do not easily change their economic systems, not without upsetting any power they see themselves as having, nor without severely disrupting the lives of their citizens.

We wish to co-exist with our socialist neighbour and let us both reap the benefits of international trade. Living standards can be raised in all countries. We also have several proposals to put forward for the creation of an international investment bank, among other things...."

May I invite you, or any other delegate to make a proposal or any specific plans they may want to put forward?

Qatra cleared his throat and stood.

"Marimaia would like to propose the creation of a free trade area between our nations. If we abolish tariffs, industries in smaller or less economically powerful nations will become more efficient in order to compete. They will also be able to gain access to the best technology more easily, and if they wish they can specialise in certain products. After all, they won't have to produce everything for themselves; they could purchase needed products from other nations for less than it would cost to make the products domestically.

Of course, it is possible that domestic industries would crumble instead of improving. In which case, we would also like to propose the formation of a bail-out fund; if a nation enters dire financial straits, they can receive a low-interest loan, which could be paid back in installments."

Griffith, remaining seated, broke in.

"While I'm sure the Marimaian delegate means well, the Copiosa Scotian government does not subsidize its own domestic industry, and certainly has no interest in bailing out foreign industry.

"With all respect, we cannot participate in such a 'bail-out fund'."

Andrew Tan stood up.

"This bail out fund does seem to warrent a deeper look into it."

Qatra cleared his throat and stood.

"Marimaia would like to propose the creation of a free trade area between our nations. If we abolish tariffs, industries in smaller or less economically powerful nations will become more efficient in order to compete. They will also be able to gain access to the best technology more easily, and if they wish they can specialise in certain products. After all, they won't have to produce everything for themselves; they could purchase needed products from other nations for less than it would cost to make the products domestically.

Of course, it is possible that domestic industries would crumble instead of improving. In which case, we would also like to propose the formation of a bail-out fund; if a nation enters dire financial straits, they can receive a low-interest loan, which could be paid back in installments."

That is the type of thought that nations like ourselves hate. We do not want to encourage smaller nations to compete with our national companies, it hurts our national economy when they do.

Is it too late to get into this debate. I have a frighting economy and am not part of any trade alliance.

What does that have to do with anything we were discussing. If you don't want to be part of the discussions please don't hijack the thread and distract from the issues we are discussing.

This supposed 'new way' is only as good as the 'third way,' a way that has consistently failed to address the fundamental concerns of non-capitalist factions. Mondragon is liberalizing, globalization has increased, not decreased, poverty and income stratification, and capitalist governments consistently repeal, not incrase, social welfare policies. The third way seems very much the reiteration of 200 years of economic dominance from the core.

Economically non-aligned nations make up the vast majority of the world economy, with a combined economy of thousands of trillions of credits. Thousands of economies that have small and local agreements could come together to form another way.

It is impossible to be neutral on a moving train. Only by skewing the importance of the economic sphere can anyone pretend there is such a thing as a 'non aligned economy.' Please note, as well, that it is a capitalist nation that claims one can be non-aligned; they claim this because nations that do not oppose the dominant status quo aid it with inaction. This 'othe way' is also proposed by a member of the WBO, an organization devoted to free market policies designed to enrich the core at the expense of the periphery. A WBO member cannot propose another way, but rather invariably argues for their way with a new paint job.

We call upon all non-capitalist nations to boycott this meeting; no good can come of an economic agreement proposed and, certainly, dominated by capitalist nations.

We also refer nations interested in creating non-adversarial economic relations to the economic treaty currently awaiting ratification by the CACE. This treaty was written to balance the needs of capitalist states with the needs of its citizens; it assures profitabilty, prosperity and the basic dignity and physical needs of the people. This conference is, clearly, a cheap attempt to deflate a proposition days away from approval, and any nation interested in the proposition of a WBO member would do well to consider the true alternative proposed.

Talia Ellman-Fogg
Minister of Politics
SeOCC

Text of the Economic Treaty (http://cace.thegrimproject.net/datahavens/EconTreaty003.htm)

Discussion on the Economic Treaty at the CACE HQ (http://invisionfree.com/forums/CACE/index.php?showtopic=307&st=0)

OOC: Is ti too late for me to sned a delegate?

God bless,

The Republic of Syskeyia

This supposed 'new way' is only as good as the 'third way,' a way that has consistently failed to address the fundamental concerns of non-capitalist factions. Mondragon is liberalizing, globalization has increased, not decreased, poverty and income stratification, and capitalist governments consistently repeal, not incrase, social welfare policies. The third way seems very much the reiteration of 200 years of economic dominance from the core.

Economically non-aligned nations make up the vast majority of the world economy, with a combined economy of thousands of trillions of credits. Thousands of economies that have small and local agreements could come together to form another way.

It is impossible to be neutral on a moving train. Only by skewing the importance of the economic sphere can anyone pretend there is such a thing as a 'non aligned economy.' Please note, as well, that it is a capitalist nation that claims one can be non-aligned; they claim this because nations that do not oppose the dominant status quo aid it with inaction. This 'othe way' is also proposed by a member of the WBO, an organization devoted to free market policies designed to enrich the core at the expense of the periphery. A WBO member cannot propose another way, but rather invariably argues for their way with a new paint job.

We call upon all non-capitalist nations to boycott this meeting; no good can come of an economic agreement proposed and, certainly, dominated by capitalist nations.

We also refer nations interested in creating non-adversarial economic relations to the economic treaty currently awaiting ratification by the CACE. This treaty was written to balance the needs of capitalist states with the needs of its citizens; it assures profitabilty, prosperity and the basic dignity and physical needs of the people. This conference is, clearly, a cheap attempt to deflate a proposition days away from approval, and any nation interested in the proposition of a WBO member would do well to consider the true alternative proposed.

Talia Ellman-Fogg
Minister of Politics
SeOCC

Text of the Economic Treaty (http://cace.thegrimproject.net/datahavens/EconTreaty003.htm)

Discussion on the Economic Treaty at the CACE HQ (http://invisionfree.com/forums/CACE/index.php?showtopic=307&st=0)


We still want to hear what they have to say.

We still want to hear what they have to say.

Your attendance only lends credibility and tacit support to this initiative; one does not have to attend to hear what is being offered.

MoP Frontdesk

IC:

Qatra nodded at the reaction to the proposal. "If that does not strike a chord with the conference, then maybe this will. Granting the other nations who sign the agreement 'most favoured nation' status; it does not create a full free trade area, but neither does it cut off potential markets to poorer nations. We do have other proposals we have thought of, but I believe it is time for discussion, and for another nation to put forward their ideas."

Qatra sat down to end his current contribution.

OOC: To be honest SeOOC, don't care very much! I'd rather you didn't post inside a conference but I'll entertain this very briefly.

Sys, no probs, send 'em on in.

IC:

If you researched before you made such grandiose conclusions you'd find that we aren't a WBO member and that, of course, really helps your credibility seeing as you seem to make it a central point of your 'argument'.

We don't care much for the CACE and never saw this proposal of yours (OOC: Even if I had, I'd still have gone on with this, seeing how "popular" the CACE is anyway and how I've had this idea for a while). The whole point is to have a non-adversarial system, which isn't broken up by the petty fights you have with the WBO, and vice versa.

{Begin tracking}

{Disruptive signal located}

{Begin blocking of disruptive signal}

{Bouncing signal to the home countries of the delegates}

You may continue to bore them if you wish, but do not interrupt us again.

{Disruptive signal to Rath na Gealach...disrupted}

Staying seated during the interruption, Colm Golden began to speak

"Moving away from this distraction, we'd like to thank the Pilonese delegation for not being blinded by the good Minister of Politics. We do hope to create a middle ground, one which Capitalist, Socialist and Communist can join.


As for the bail out idea, while we do not wish to subsidise inefficient industry, perhaps the creation of an Industrial Credit Council (ICC) should be encouraged, one while will give loans to industry to allow it to modernise, expand and compete. This would not be, however, a bail out fund but an international bank specialising in providing finance to industry.

Thoughts?"

As for the bail out idea, while we do not wish to subsidise inefficient industry, perhaps the creation of an Industrial Credit Council (ICC) should be encouraged, one while will give loans to industry to allow it to modernise, expand and compete. This would not be, however, a bail out fund but an international bank specialising in providing finance to industry.

Thoughts?"

Qatra nodded his approval. "Much better. This is undoubtedly the best way forward; nations make proposals which then get refined. How would the ICC be run though? Would a single nation be in charge, would signatory nations have a rotating chairmanship, or would there be a permanent board with a representative from each signatory?"

Colm smiled and his happiness was evident as he replied. "We think that this would be run by a board with a representative from each member. This ICC would be there as a support, we don't see it playing a huge role though, we just hope it'll be useful for corporations who wish to take advantage of a much larger market"

You'll excuse us if you we thought you were a member of the WBO, it's just that we saw this (http://invisionfree.com/forums/WBO_and_SATO/index.php?showtopic=210&hl=) and of course, from their military wing, SATO (http://invisionfree.com/forums/WBO_and_SATO/index.php?showtopic=148&hl=).

And this simple fact is that there is not one substantive issue on the table here; all we see is nations attempting to create supernational trading blocs. I see no nations attempting to address the political, cultural and human costs of the economic sphere; in fact not one delegation at said conference has even shown they are aware of these issues.

To the clearly WBO aligned, if not allied, nation of Milesia, your conference is a sham, please admit it. To nations with sincere goals for a peaceful economic coexistence, your alternative has been presented.

MoP Frontdesk

I see no nations attempting to address the political, cultural and human costs of the economic sphere

Have you heared of contingency theories? They state that for each problem, the best solution depends on the environment in which the issue is located. So a worldwide set of procedures to control the negative cultural and human effects of capitalist economy will never work. After all, each nation is located in a unique position, a unique network, and consists of unique elements. Therefore, finding a single "best way" of operating for the whole world, is just silly.

S. Delendre

Colm smiled and his happiness was evident as he replied. "We think that this would be run by a board with a representative from each member. This ICC would be there as a support, we don't see it playing a huge role though, we just hope it'll be useful for corporations who wish to take advantage of a much larger market"

We would support the creation of this ICC.

John Whyte
Goobergunchian Finance Minister

Receiving a late clearance to land, Tanah Burung's chief economic official, Rosa Almedia, enters the room. Looking around, she is surprised to see members of the World Business Organization present. I thought this was an attempt to explore the possibilities of a third economic force, she thought to herself. That's all right though: this may prove even more interesting.

Almeida stands up and says: "I'll have to say here and now we won't be signing on to any general free trade pacts. We need to retain the right to protect local control of our own economy. To quote the President of Brazil: 'Trade liberalization should not require countries to abandon the prerogative of formulating industrial, social and environmental policy.' But we're very interested in exploring ways of ecomic exchange that put people first and avoid economic hegemony of strong powers over weak ones. I'll have more to say on that later, if any of you are interested, but let's remember one thing: 'Economies exist to serve people, not the other way around,' as environmentalist David Suzuki reminds us."

Almeida clears her throat and looks around the room. "I think our friends from Knootoss may be able to say a word on the need for free trade to also be fair trade. And i hope our friends from SeOCC will send some representatives to talk to us about their proposed economic treaty. This seems like the ideal place to sell the merits of the treaty, which we feel is a very promising one."

As of yet we have not seen anything proposed that does not feel like a Capitalist threat to our economy, delegates keep using phrases like "Take Advantage" and "Free Trade" neither of which appeal to us. We still listen though hoping to hear something that would work for both the Capitalist and Non-Capitalist countries.

Have you heared of contingency theories? They state that for each problem, the best solution depends on the environment in which the issue is located. So a worldwide set of procedures to control the negative cultural and human effects of capitalist economy will never work. After all, each nation is located in a unique position, a unique network, and consists of unique elements. Therefore, finding a single "best way" of operating for the whole world, is just silly.

Are you trying to sell historical materialism to a Marxist? Is this an incredibly ironic joke that you aren't in on?

I wonder if you have read the treaty SeOCC has proposed because at no point does it dictate HOW a nation will go about meeting the treaty's criteria. In fact it is very open ended, geared only at promoting a guaranteed standard of living for workers and at promoting balanced network trade relations rather than the typically one sided 'comparative advantage' model the Core-Periphery exists under.

The fact is that fair trade is impossible as long as a core exists; anyone can run a fairly simple exercise to show how this works. Make up two fictional nations which each produce certain prodcuts. If we accept the first assumption of comparative advantage, that differant nations will be able to produce certain good more efficiently than others, we will have each nation specializing in what it can produce more efficiently than the other nation.

But that's where it falls apart. Profit margins, for one, are much higher on 'value added industries,' like pharmaceuticals or conusmer electronics, than on the raw materials that make the finished products; food is equally unlucrative. Nations which find themselves only able to produce, efficiently in comparison to global competition, raw materials or low profit goods will actually come to disadvantage because the profits they make off their good will not cover the products they NEED to buy from value added economies. And yes, they do have to buy them because the value added economies, the Core, produce for export and if the Periphery does not buy those products we end up in an overproduction crisis.

When your capitalist governments can produce an economist able to take these facts into consideration you will be able to truly treat the situation as it exists. As long as you kid yourselves that free trade will result in equality, prosperity and sustainable, environmentally and econically, growth policies, you'll be caught in a Pareto Optimum illusion and your actions will only enrich your tiny capital owning elite.

Or was that the point? I get confused about this sometimes.

As of yet we have not seen anything proposed that does not feel like a Capitalist threat to our economy, delegates keep using phrases like "Take Advantage" and "Free Trade" neither of which appeal to us. We still listen though hoping to hear something that would work for both the Capitalist and Non-Capitalist countries.

I hope you will take us up on our invitation and send a delegation to the CACE HQ to discuss the economic treaty in depth. As seems plain to most the economic treaty proposed is not only substantially more developed than the ethereal 'let's make the world a better place!' rallying cry of the ongoing conference, but it is also rooted in good economic theory, rather than the consistently debunked Free Mareket Radicalism proposed by the WBO and their stoogies. And yes, it seems the WBO has disowned Milesia, which still doesn't explain why they were at one time admitted, and does not excuse the fact that their ideology remains consistently aligned with the WBO/SATO.

But we're very interested in exploring ways of ecomic exchange that put people first and avoid economic hegemony of strong powers over weak ones.

Can we then expect your signature on our economic treaty once it is ratified?

Ibin Khalid
Special Officer, Ministry of Politics
SeOCC (in Celdonia)

But we're very interested in exploring ways of ecomic exchange that put people first and avoid economic hegemony of strong powers over weak ones.

Can we then expect your signature on our economic treaty once it is ratified?

Ibin Khalid
Special Officer, Ministry of Politics
SeOCC (in Celdonia)

Yes. Tanah Burung's collective presidency has already agreed to sign this excellent treaty. This will have to be ratified by referendum once the treaty is finalized, of course, but our polling forecasts no difficulty in obtaining citizen approval. We recommend that other countries assembled here also consider signing the treaty. It contains solid economic ideas and is a carefully-worked out document with concrete terms rather than a simple appeal to ideology.

OOC: We will be back most likely on Monday.

OOC: Aaaaarrrrrgh... I had written a 1,5 page post and the computer crashed. :shock: And it also crashed the first time I attempted to post here....

must... regain ... faith

(OOC: Perhaps we could get a mod on the WBO/SATO forum to kick my resignation threads (plural) so you can see them. Personally I could not care less what you think though)

…substantially more developed than the ethereal 'let's make the world a better place!' rallying cry of the ongoing conference, but it is also rooted in good economic theory, rather than the consistently debunked Free Mareket Radicalism proposed by the WBO and their stoogies. And yes, it seems the WBO has disowned Milesia, which still doesn't explain why they were at one time admitted, and does not excuse the fact that their ideology remains consistently aligned with the WBO/SATO

The WBO did not disown us, we were simply tired of your prattle on this that and the other and the "de-bunked" free market radicalism you talk about. Strange that it seems to be working as off now, as well as the fact my economy is the level ahead of you. To be honest, we REALLY don't care what you have to say.

Nor is it "lets make the world a better place". It's an attempt to get away from your petty arguments over your unworkable economic theories which rob people of the right to do as they wish and set up business, and how something that's in practice now somehow doesn't work. Strange no?

The whole idea of the core and periphery is true, though you do exaggerate it to the extent that a country will only produce said goods and not any other goods that they may have a comparative advantage in.


IGNORED (I’ve probs joined the vast majority of people on NS!)

Moving on.

Colm rose, "I too am concerned about the amount of WBO members, I didn't realise we were a threat to the SATO *cough*Knootoss*cough*, but they are hear to listen at least.

On complete free trade, perhaps a tiered system? If all the countries in favour of complete free trade would have no tariffs between them, and then on another tier would be the countries with tariffs up, but most favoured nation trading status?

If you see what I mean, free trade for the countries that want it, and then opening up some of the markets in the other countries.”

"So, right now, the two things on the table are the ICC and a Tier'ed Trade System?"

"So, right now, the two things on the table are the ICC and a Tier'ed Trade System?"

"So, right now, the two things on the table are the ICC and a Tier'ed Trade System?"

"Looks that way. Anyway, Marimaia would like to signal our support for the tiered system of trade; countries can then choose how free their trade will be."

"We are glad that our tiered system has received some support from our fellow capitalists, perhaps a sign that we don't wish to overwhelm the smaller and weaker economies?"

Cathal stood, surveying the room slowly, looking at each delegation in turn.
"I don't think anyone would have a problem with the ICC, but I would like the Copiosa Scoti delegation to signal how they feel on this matter, as well as on the tiered system of trade.

We would also like all nations present to signal their views on the ICC and tiered trade. We also have a proposal as to the creation of a whole system, in which the ICC and tiered trade would be important features, but no the only ones."

"We certainly believe in tiered trade," Almeida says. "Asking poor countries to throw their doors open to bigger and richer countries, is asking them to sign the death warrants for their own economies. At the Developing Nations Conference, we all agreed that certain rights must be recognized for developing states, like the right to subsidize their agricultural sectors. Actually, we've offered agricultural free trade to one WBO member. But a country like ours with a weak economy would need to protect its right to liberalize trade only gradually to avoid economic shocks.

"We will also be linking human rights and trade. That is, there will be no trade preferences extended to countries with poor human rights record. We need to be able to impose economic sanctions and those countries that kill, arrest and torture their own people."

The WBO did not disown us, we were simply tired of your prattle on this that and the other and the "de-bunked" free market radicalism you talk about. Strange that it seems to be working as off now, as well as the fact my economy is the level ahead of you. To be honest, we REALLY don't care what you have to say.

is this ooc or ic? regardless, MY prattle made YOU resign from the WBO? ooh, my ego is swelling. as for your economy, 1) this is a game, the real world applies a totally differant set of rules, 2) in the real world the Core does get rich off the periphery; economic success of a few nations does not justify the immiseration of the rest of humanity. 3) what was it my mother said to me about catching flies... i can't quite recall.

Nor is it "lets make the world a better place". It's an attempt to get away from your petty arguments over your unworkable economic theories which rob people of the right to do as they wish and set up business, and how something that's in practice now somehow doesn't work. Strange no?

? strange that you're so hopelessly drowning in your own liberal dogma that you can't step outside of Rights Theory? or strange that you'd pay so much attention to my petty arguments? speaking of unworkable economic theories, could you maybe update me on how long our current rate of ecnoomic growth can be supported by the planet's ecosystems? or perhaps you could comment on the G21, or maybe the fact that during the period of the largest profit margins ever reported (the 90's in general), US corporations were laying off people in record numbers (this is an easy one, Michael Moore made a movie about it, see, ooh, movie, no words to read and hurt your brain).

i fail to see what's unworkable about what has never been tried.

i fail to see where your natural right to have exclusive ownership of something comes from.

i fail to see how you can think this will go on forever.

The whole idea of the core and periphery is true, though you do exaggerate it to the extent that a country will only produce said goods and not any other goods that they may have a comparative advantage in.

! go read your Ricardo, i mean god damn it, he was a capitalist and this was his idea. more over, perhaps you should do some case studies in the third world, like Africa, where farmers grow crops for export and import most of their food. the point where you grow coffee instead of food for your people is the point where you have to admit people are working on comparative advantage assumptions.

not that comparative advantage is what's important to the Core-Periphery, which makes me dubious of how familiar you are with the subject. the C-P relation is simple: raw materials of no value leave the P for less than fair market value and enter the C; C produces finished products, sells back to the P for more than they got for their product or labor. this is all down, quite simply, in the concept of an Overproduction Crisis, if you bothered to read your Marx.

and yes! Marx was a free-market advocate! Marx would rather that market dictate production than the state! oh my god!

IGNORED (I’ve probs joined the vast majority of people on NS!)

you sure know how to make a guy feel wanted, makes me almost want to go back to the real world. of course where i live it's illegal to be a communist so what the hell...

Matthew Griffith nods to the Milesian delegate. "The tiered system of trade is essentially the same system Copiosa Scotia has dealt with for years. We choose not to engage in protectionism, and let other nations choose for themselves whether they want to follow our example. If other nations do not see the obvious benefits of free trade, we will not force them to accept those benefits, and if it takes a formal agreement for other nations to trade freely with us, then so be it. We will agree in principle to tiered trade.

As for the International Credit Council, it is an interesting idea, but at present the concept is not substantial enough for us to make a decision. In addition to echoing Marimaia's questions on leadership, we must ask who, specifically would fund this ICC?"

"We are glad to see widespread support for the tiered trade system, we have no wish to swamp the smaller economies. We haven't engaged in protectionism or provided subsidies to any industry, and we do not have any intention of doing so now. May I take it that, at least in principal, everyone is agreed on the tiered system of trade?
If so, may I have a show of hands for those who wish to engage in free trade and we'll take it from there."

The Milesian delegation raises a hand to signify it's wish to be involved in the free trade level.

"As for the funding of the ICC, I propose that we each chip in a sum that will be paid back to use, plus interest, once the ICC is up and running? At least then it's several steps away from actually subsidising industry. We would usually leave such an endeavour to private industry, though it may be necessary to help the smaller nations present.

For it's leadership, should we perhaps set up a small committee, democratically elected by those present to administer the loans?"

Kick!

Greetings my fellow nations. i am intrigued by the idea this conference is trying to set out and this nation (Trabian) would like to join it if it is not too late.

Well it is a bit late really, we see no reason why you should not be able to attend. Please follow the instuctions set out at the start by flying to the preset co-ordinates where you'll be met by a small delegation.

D.A.N.A.

"We are glad to see widespread support for the tiered trade system, we have no wish to swamp the smaller economies. We haven't engaged in protectionism or provided subsidies to any industry, and we do not have any intention of doing so now. May I take it that, at least in principal, everyone is agreed on the tiered system of trade?
If so, may I have a show of hands for those who wish to engage in free trade and we'll take it from there."

The Milesian delegation raises a hand to signify it's wish to be involved in the free trade level.

"As for the funding of the ICC, I propose that we each chip in a sum that will be paid back to use, plus interest, once the ICC is up and running? At least then it's several steps away from actually subsidising industry. We would usually leave such an endeavour to private industry, though it may be necessary to help the smaller nations present.

For it's leadership, should we perhaps set up a small committee, democratically elected by those present to administer the loans?"

Qatra raised his hand. "Marimaia would also like to signify its wish to be involved in the free trade level. "

Griffith raises a hand. "Naturally, we will engage in free trade."

El kicko for anyone who might be interested in joining up, since it's gone so quiet in here....

"That looks like 3 members in favour of free trade, do we have any members who'd wish to be involved in one of the tiered trade?"

We are leaving this conference as it does not pertain to us and we do not feel that anything talked about here will benefit us at all.

We support the tiered trade option.

We offer a formal apology for not attending the conference. Our coast is under blockade at the moment by Allanea and as a result our economic minister cannot leave the nation.

Usama Al'Suga

Diplomatic Minister of Aooogah

"Ok, that leaves us with 4 active people, and a whole raft of WBO members who said they'd arrive and didn't.

We might as well put forward out main proposal.

We propose the creation of an Federation of Economic Co-operation.

Within this, there would be the tiered system of trade stated previously in this conference as well as the creation of a ICC as well as the creation of a Central Bank and common currency (of course this won't be compulsory or anything) which is not tied to any nation's economy.

We would also like to negotiate treaties with other trade organisations, be they regional or otherwise.

This is only a concise version of it, obviously if there was interest we'd do a more in-depth version."


----------------------------------------

We could, perhaps, run the blockade with one of our space-craft if you could confirm to us that this blockade was not caused by an aggressive action on your part.

We could bring your economics minister and a small delegation.

http://www.gamespy.com/avatars/av/MA/ma178.gif
Conan Skye,
2IC,
Star Command,
Milesian Permanent Defence Forces.

As Allanea's Regional Delegate, we request that the blockade not be run. However, I have been in contact with the Foreign Minister and he will be asking Allanea to permit passage of the Aooogan economic minister.

Before he does this, would it be possible to activate a secure communications link between Aooogah and the conference? This would be a whole lot easier than any of the above options.

John Whyte
Goobergunchian Finance Minister
DU Regional Delegate
UNAOTO Member

Telegram:

The newly independant nation the Democratic Republic of Rechevia is intested in attending this conference if it is still open to all.

Yours,
Mikhail Grekyov
First Minister, Democratic Republic of Rechevia

You may attend, of course. Please follow the instructions from earlier as to how to attend.


"D.A.N.A., could you please open a secure CommLine to Aooogan?"

{Yes Cathal}

{Open secure CommLine to Aooogan}

{Secure CommLine open}

{You may begin transmission at any time}

"The floor is yours Goobergunchia."

OOC: aaaaaaaaaaaargh.... this thing has EATEN my post for the THIRD time... and only in this thead. This is a curse. I know it. I deeply apoligise but I am giving up on this one.

*bangs head to wall repeatedly in frustration*

*The Rechevian Govenmental Plane containing financial minister Natasha Popov arrives at the designated coordinates*

{Transmission}
This is Rechevian Government Aircraft Zvesky Iodep requesting permission to land.
{End transmission}

Tanah Burung might be able to sign on to a tiered trade agreement in the future, but can't do so at this time. Our recent trade agreement with Knootoss and plans to sign the CACE economic treaty will be enough of a shock to our economy that we can't sign any more trading agreements at this time. We hope for better economic ties with some of the nations here in the future however.

(ooc: for family reasons i'll only have time for the RP's i'm actually running for the rest of this week at any rate)

Ah, yes, we hadn't considered that option. We'll have to bounce our signal on the satellites of other nations in order to connect to your commlink though as our faith condemns space exploration as "not profitable." (Mohammed 22:2) The Aooogah trade minister will join in on the conference shortly.

Usama Al'suga
Diplomatic Minister of Aooogah

---

A few hours pass...

Good evening, gentlemen. Sorry I am late but I was off scouting for enemy bombers, every citizen in Aooogah is trained in some sort of combat skill should the need arise. I have been briefed on the discussions and...

*DISCONNECTED BY PEER*

---

"What happened?" trade minister Sheik Ad'meken inquired.
"We lost the signal sir, perhaps next time we shouldn't bounce the signal off of an Allanean satellite."
"You did what?! You insolent fool!"
The trade minister pulls out his pistol and shot the comm technician in the head. Everyone in the room stares at him in disbelief.
"Well don't just stand there! They could have traced our signal! The Trade Ministry could be bombed at any minute! Begin evacuation!"
Everyone scrambles out of the building.
The trade minister boards his helicopter.
"Take me into the desert! And make sure there's good satellite reception!"
"Of course, Trade Minister!"
The helicopter takes off and lands somewhere in the Great Desert of Aooogah.
The trade minister's pilot bounces the signal off of a Civfanatica satellite.

---

Welcome to the Civfanatica Satellite Network! Beginning Transmission Now.

I must apologize. We are having technical difficulties due to EMP waves from Allanean EMP missiles. Anyway, we have looked over both proposals and we believe that both the ICC and tiered trade will fit Aooogah quite nicely.

Sheik Ad'meken
Trade Minister of Aooogah

Ah, yes, we hadn't considered that option. We'll have to bounce our signal on the satellites of other nations in order to connect to your commlink though as our faith condemns space exploration as "not profitable." (Mohammed 22:2) The Aooogah trade minister will join in on the conference shortly.

Usama Al'suga
Diplomatic Minister of Aooogah

---

A few hours pass...

Good evening, gentlemen. Sorry I am late but I was off scouting for enemy bombers, every citizen in Aooogah is trained in some sort of combat skill should the need arise. I have been briefed on the discussions and...

*DISCONNECTED BY PEER*

---

"What happened?" trade minister Sheik Ad'meken inquired.
"We lost the signal sir, perhaps next time we shouldn't bounce the signal off of an Allanean satellite."
"You did what?! You insolent fool!"
The trade minister pulls out his pistol and shot the comm technician in the head. Everyone in the room stares at him in disbelief.
"Well don't just stand there! They could have traced our signal! The Trade Ministry could be bombed at any minute! Begin evacuation!"
Everyone scrambles out of the building.
The trade minister boards his helicopter.
"Take me into the desert! And make sure there's good satellite reception!"
"Of course, Trade Minister!"
The helicopter takes off and lands somewhere in the Great Desert of Aooogah.
The trade minister's pilot bounces the signal off of a Civfanatica satellite.

---

Welcome to the Civfanatica Satellite Network! Beginning Transmission Now.

I must apologize. We are having technical difficulties due to EMP waves from Allanean EMP missiles. Anyway, we have looked over both proposals and we believe that both the ICC and tiered trade will fit Aooogah quite nicely.

Sheik Ad'meken
Trade Minister of Aooogah

OOC: sorry, my comp had to be reformated, ^^;;

IC:

"Perhaps we should flesh out this Tiered system alittle before we all decided ot jump on board?"

"Well how we see the tiered system is that Copiosa Scotia, Marimaia and Milesia have opted for the full free trade section of the system, i.e. having zero tariffs." Cathal said, leaning back into his seat slightly, looking at the Canada-German delegattes "And we presume that the first tier would have, shall we say...minimum tariffs on our products, under about 5%, the next tier would be under 15% and so on.

The whole point of this is to stop the smaller economies being totally swamped by the larger ones."

As the Rechevian delegates entered, escorted by 2 4th Tigerns and a small security detachment, Colm rises "Delegates, please welcome the Rechevian delegation, who've just arrived. I presume you've been brought up to date on developments so far?"

El bump!

good day milesia, may we send representatives?

IC:

Qatra raises his hand.

"I would also like to welcome the Rechevian delegation. We do not mean to divert attention from your arrival, but we would like to hear more about the plans for a Central Bank and a possible common currency."

The Sagos Ministers of Economy, Commerce and Trade would like to attend this conference, representing our own country along with the seven-member Free World Organization.

We apologize for our late entry.

(OOC: You can both attend, for the sake of speeding things up, you can assume you've received permission, have landed and been escorted in and seated)

"As for the central bank and currency, we propose the setting up of a central bank, with a council made up of one representative from the central bank of each nation. They would look after their own country, to a degree, put forward reasons why a resolution should or shouldn’t be adapted, the effect it’d have on that nation.

This Central bank would regulate the currency and the interest rates in the currency union, but obviously there would need to be some convergence between the economies first. (much like the €)"

Minister of Economy Jackson D'nai

We endorse the concept of a Central Bank and currency, however, a tiered-trade system seems flawed.

We propose a favored-nation trading status to all countries that ratify the agreement. Free trade would bankrupt many small countries, while prohibitve tariffs reduce it.

Our favored-nation system works well in our region. Inter regional agreements also promote strong trade practices.

Cathal look up to the Sagosian delegate "My good sir, that is exactly what the tiered system of trade is. Several of us want free trade, others want tariffs and that is what they get.

However, the tariffs are lower for us than they would be for other nations. The totally free market is not for all, and we recognise that, all we ask is for a lower tariff than otherwise."

Qatra nods at the detail of the proposals.

"Marimaia would also like to endorse the concept of a Central Bank and common currency. However, we would like to know more about what would happen to a nation which opted for everything except the Central Bank & common currency; would they be at any disadvantage?"

"The Central bank is an interesting idea, but the common currency would not go over well in my country. As for the Tier'd trade, I too would now like to sign on."

Cathal sits, thinking for just a moment before replying

"The only major disadvantage I could possibly foresee for a nation that goes for everything but a common currency is that of exchange rates, be it fluctuations in the relative values or the fact that a bloc with which you do much of your trading is using a common currency. That being said, however, we would have no problem with countries staying out if they think their sovereignty is in any way threatened."

He leaned forward in his seat, resting his arm on the table, as if he was whispering to someone, and said,

"Personally, I like the idea and we would be more than willing to go with the idea, if several other countries wished to participate. We have quite a few countries interested in the tiered system and this would be a good idea for helping trade.

What level would Canada-Germany like to enter into the system?"

"One tier down from total free trade."

"First of all, a clarification, if you would," Griffith said. "As I understand it, the ICC would, upon repayment of our investments, become a private entity in its own right, correct?

"As for a common currency, we must decline to participate. We'll gladly trade in such a currency, but we will not adopt it for use in our own nation."

"I see no reason why the ICC shouldn't become a private entity once it has repayed it's debts to us. We for one have no wish to create a permanent SSB (Semi-Sate Body), we wish to leave the market do as it wishes in general.
Does anyone have objections to the ICC being a private organisation after it's repayments?

We understand your position Mr. Griffith, and welcome your proposed use of it as a trading currency."

"I see no reason why the ICC shouldn't become a private entity once it has repayed it's debts to us. We for one have no wish to create a permanent SSB (Semi-Sate Body), we wish to leave the market do as it wishes in general.
Does anyone have objections to the ICC being a private organisation after it's repayments?"

"No objections from Marimaia. So, when will we be signing all of these agreements? It looks as if we've discussed everything that was on the agenda, unless there are other ideas floating around."

"I would like all the attendants of the conference to state their opinions on the common currency/central bank, and their position on the tiered trade system, after that I think we could draft a document and have it signed and ratified."

"Thank you for the clarification on the ICC. We have no objections."

A rental aircraft touches down at the designated location. An odd-looking being exits the craft, glancing around for the reception party. The being is Silvertongue, the Argonian blacksmith (And the closest thing they have to an economic adviser). He watches as the craft takes off again, leaving him in the strange, foreign land.

"Would all present be happy to sign up to a charter which would incorporate tiered tarde, an ICC (and perhaps an ACC, Agricultural Credit Council, along the same lines as the ICC, if it is needed) which would encorporate, for those that wish to be part of it, a common currency and central bank?"

The reception committee welcomes the Argonian delegate, "Sir, we presume you wish to attend the conference. This way please"

"Would all present be happy to sign up to a charter which would incorporate tiered tarde, an ICC (and perhaps an ACC, Agricultural Credit Council, along the same lines as the ICC, if it is needed) which would encorporate, for those that wish to be part of it, a common currency and central bank?"

Qatra nods his head. "Marimaia will be pleased to sign such a charter."

"This is our first draft of the Charter that we would like all those present to read over and make suggestions to."

Cathal tapped a button and a small view-screen raises up from the desks at which all the delegates were sitting.

Charter of the Organisation of Economic Co-operation.

Recognising that the CACE and WBO were not for all Communists/Socialists or Capitalists, we, the undersigned have agreed to create another trading block, one which would take in both sides and enhance trade between them both.

To this end, all member nations agree to Articles 1 and 2, and nations may sign up to Article 3 at their discretion:

Article 1) A tiered trading system: This entails members deciding on whether they wish to have free trade with other member nations, or enter in one of the tiers with tariffs, be they 5%,10% or 15%, on good entering their country.

So far the following have signed up to free trade:
Milesia
Copiosa Scoti
Marimaia
…

The following have signed up to one of the tiers:
Canada Germany
…

Article 2) While recognising that many nations do not wish to subsidise industry, an Industrial Credit Council (ICC) and Agricultural Credit Council (ACC) are to be set up. These will be set up using a contribution from each member, to be paid back with interest. Once this money is repaid, the ACC and ICC will become private institutions.

The ICC and ACC will function as sources of credit and loans for industries and farms so as to allow them to expand/consolidate/update in order to compete in the expanded market. They are to be run by a small board of directors, nominated by member nations.

Article 3) A Central Bank is to be set up to administer the common currency for some member nations within the …. A board made up of a Central Bank representatives will run this Bank, each bringing their own nation’s ideals and views.

The Central Bank will regulate the currency, raise and lower interest rates as necessary, and also control the money supply, in order to keep the realistic value of the currency.

I _______ agree on behalf of my nation to sign this Charter, or parts thereof, and to act within the bounds set out by what I have signed.

"It all seems fair; the only question we would have regards 'realistic value of the currency'. How would that be determined exactly?"

"Again, this common currency alarms us."

Transmission to the Milesia

<Transmission to the world>
<Diplomatic Corp>
{Encryption 3857}

Honorable Milesia is it possible to join at this time?

{Transmission Over}

http://www.gamespy.com/avatars/av/FN/fn650.gif
Lady Taylor
Lady of Garrison II
House of David
Lady of York

OOC: Apologies, I totally forgot about this until I was clearing out my favourites folder.

{Open transmission to Garrison II}

Yes, your presence would be most welcome at this stage, should you still be interested

{End transmission}

As for the value of the currency, it would be determined by the Central Bank, based on normal economic tests as well as the volume of imports and exports (and the overall balance of trade of the countries that wish to use it)

Everyone would not adopt the currency, only those who wish to use it for trade, either internally or externally.

Qatra nodded. "All seems in order. I for one am ready to sign the charter as it is now."

Will members of the pact receive free exchange services for the new currency?

"We too are ready to sign now, if anyone has last minute changes they may wish to add, please suggest them now"

Cathal looked around and saw no answer immediately.
"As for free exchange services, I presume you mean change over of currency and my simple answer is 'Yes'."