NationStates Jolt Archive

Welcome to The Bowery, a meeting place for the regional leaders of Mt Zion!

Feel free to sit in the shade, enjoy a nice cold glass of lemonade and engage in an evening of good conversation. This is a place to get to know your neighbors, talk of common concerns, debate UN issues and celebrate life in the dispensation of the fullness of times.

Homemade ice cream and scones every night at 9!

*for a moment was considering joining this region*

I hope everyone has been able to find The Bowery; it is in a rather secluded location, but I think that adds to its charm.

I thought I would take a moment and introduce myself and a couple of the officers of our humble nation.

I am Enash, President of the Council of Dezregot.

Please let me introduce Maulbe, our Head of Security and Intelligence…let’s see…yes, she’s the lavendar-haired lady over there in the corner…no, the one there with the cat. And the gentleman standing next to the bar…(no, Millan, I don’t think they serve alcohol here) is…(Millan, please come out from behind the bar) Millan, our Chief of Sutaos PefROD (Statistics, Useful Trivia and Other Stuff Pertinent to the Everyday Functioning of the Republic of Dezregot)…(Millan, please! Leave the man alone…)

While Dezregot is a small, struggling nation…(Millan, how many today? Ah,) of 150 million (Millan, are you sure? That seems awfully high…) people (Millan, you are sure you’re not counting the bees? Ok, then) 150 million people, we have great heart (No, Millan, I am not questioning your facts…no, the number just seemed a bit higher than I thought…) and hope to be good neighbors to the people of the fine region of Mt Zion.

(no Maulbe, I don’t think I am giving away too much information; these are our neighbors, they have a right to get to know us… Now, now, don’t get upset…truly, I think they already know were we live, and the thing with the honey bees, well, that’s common knowledge, now, isn’t it?)

Just so you know, we’ve recently had to make some changes within our government. We were forced to move our former Head of Military Strategy into the position of Head of Security and Intelligence—he was a bit too eager to use his slingshot and we were forced to remove the rubber band. Unfortunately, Intelligence really wasn’t a good fit for him…well, he spent most of his time trying to divine water or some such craziness. Maulbe was called upon to take over his position (Maulbe, why are you crying? No, I like lavender, I think it looks good on you… I was not making fun of your hair.) We called her out of retirement…(Maulbe, would you prefer to go sit in the car? You are getting the good delegate from T&P all wet. Fine, stay then, just…well, do cheer-up or something.) Anyway, as Benjamin Franklin once said, “They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security…”

(no, Maulbe, I am pretty sure he said that before he died…)

…anyway, what was I talking about? Hmmm, well, anyway, we greatly appreciate the recent assistance rendered us by the Honored Delegate of The Republic of Liahona in allowing us refuge in this fine region of Mt Zion. As I mentioned before, the Gadianton robbers in our previous region had destroyed our homes, terrified our tenderhearted children and made our lives nearly unbearable.

(Millan, really, the door clearly says “employees only”…)

Our people are sincerely pleased to be a part of this fine region and truly look forward to getting to better know our esteemed neighbors. Please feel free to call upon us for any assistance. Please also accept our open invitation to join us for a day of honey treats and the finest trout fishing you could ever hope for!

I'm here. We welcome nations to join us!

Of the People-M,
Mt Zion

Howd that happen? On -D? :?: :?

Fireside tonight!

The people of Dezregot are very excited about the upcoming BYU Education week events and thought it might be nice to have a discussion about some of the talks planned for this week.

A bit of business first. As you may or may not be aware, to post a message within this thread, use the "PostReply" option rather than "NewTopic". While "PostReply" adds a post to our Bowery discussion and enables us to read your comments here, "NewTopic" creates a brand-new thread somewhere out in cyberland that the rest of us may never see.

Now that we are all here, I have been looking over the schedule for Education Week and noticed a talk on the Dead Sea Scrolls on Wednsday. The people of Dezregot are very interested in the Dead Sea Scrolls due to a recent discovery of our own. About six days ago some of our upstanding youth were digging in the dirt (as upstanding youth are wont to do) just outside one of our largest villiages. Imagine their surprise when they discovered what appeared to be a stone tablet with ancient writings scribbled across it. Well, it created quite an uproar throughout the entire nation of Dezregot, let me tell you! You see, Dezregot is a fairly young land, having been created out of nothingness less than two months ago

(Millan, how long has it been exactly? Millan? Now where has that man got off to? Oh well...)

We had no idea that anyone had, or indeed could have, lived here before us. Well, we quickly developed a interest in ancient writings, scrolls, tablets, and ancient history. Our major colleges quickly added subjects in ancient civilizations and dead languages. Our elementary schools scheduled field trips to the site of the tablet discovery and to anything and everything considered ancient--granted, most of their visits were to buildings in our downtown regions that were built, like, 40 days ago, but the sentiment was there. Even our toy makers quickly picked up on the theme and began producing ancient civilization-related action figures.

Well, to make a long story short, one of our distinguished researchers took a look at the tablet and realized it was actually a child's crayon drawing on a block of cement, probably left in the sandbox only a week before; but the point is, our people have developed an intense interest in ancient writings and those who have gone before. These dead sea scrolls are just what our people need to maintain that interest and to form a lasting connection with their past. Subsequently, we will definitely be tuning in, probably via the internet. Likewise for the discussion on Friday concerning "Other Voices from the Dust." We have great hopes that these discussions will be uplifting and educational.

Our people are also very interested in the talks in which our distinguished neighbors plan to participate. We would be sincerely interested to learn the topics and the reasons for your interest in those talks you have chosen.

Thank you,
Enash,
President, Council of Dezregot

:D Sounds good to me! :)

I only have a computer at work so as a result I won't be able to hear any of edu week I'm thinking. Any ideas? Maybe comcast will play it like they sometimes do conference??? :D

I don't know what options you have available in your nation, but you might go to

http://byubroadcasting.org/edweek/Default.asp

to see the TV and internet options. Also, selected sessions are broadcast via satilite to stake centers, at least in distant places like the Republic of Dezregot.

Hope this helps,

Enash

I will just have to wait for the reruns I guess :)

In a recent poll among the people in Liahona, 75% expressed an interest in BYU Education week talks, 20% disinterest, 3% expressed that they were rather too bogged down with politics to busy themselves with education (to which the president of the illustrious nation send them several well-intended conference talks and hopes that they will soon repent and see the error of their ways) and 2% responded "other," which comments included "We want more ice cream!" and "What is a Dead Sea scroll?"

At any rate, the leader of Liahona, Yerkaterina the Great, has taken efforts to encourage all who are interested in the talks to retreat to their local stake centers for the broadcast. She likewise looks forward to discussing the talks with other nations!

Tourism will be fine it will just bring in the more adventurous types of tourists!

Just for the record cannablism is NOT legalized it's merely a response to my starvation technique in response to THEIR revolution! I'm sorry to say that some of citizens don't agree with my right to dictate their lives. They will though. Have no fear! They will comply!!! Torment and Pain will NOT be a free state!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mewahahahahahhahahahahaha! :evil: :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :roll:

as for new nations moving in... hmmm great idea Liahona! :lol: :twisted:

Oh, dear, I fear we've created a monster.... I had other thoughts, but I think rather than give T&P ideas I will keep them to myself...

- Yekaterina The Great.

:lol: Trust me it's okay I have enough of them on my own. My citizens will never be the same again though! :twisted: :wink:

Wow! Some mighty fine Ed Week talks so far.

These two were especially captivating to myself and all of Dezregot:

1) Dr. Richard Holzapfel, "Let there light: The Scriptures are the Word of God"
-He discussed the history of the scriptures, particularily the Bible, with a special focus on William Tindale, one of the scholars who gave his life to give us an English translation--the translation carried by the Pilgrims, and the translation relied upon heavily by the King James translators (80-90% of the KJV is Tindales translation). Extremely interesting discussion (although Dr. Holzapfel did try to cram about 1.5 hours of material into 60 minutes...spoke like a speedboat for the first 30 minutes, then sped up from there). His talk really makes me want to study up on Tindale, who coined the terms and phrases: "Let there be light," "salt of the earth," "passover" and "atonement".

2) Dr. Donald Parry, "The Dead Sea Scrolls"
-He discussed "the greatest archaeological discovery of the 20th century": the Dead Sea Scrolls. Parry has been working on the translation team and reports that an official translation is about to be published, called "Discoveries in the Judean Desert", by Oxford Press. He discussed the Biblical and non-Biblical scrolls and what they tell us about the Old Testament and about Jewish life in the meridian of time. One interesting thing that he mentioned was the recent application of DNA testing to the scrolls: there are apparently thousands of small scroll fragments that need to be assembled like hundreds of jigsaw puzzles. It would be hard enough if they knew to which puzzle each fragment belongs, but many times they don't even know that...many are just in a big jumble. DNA analysis should help identify which species, population and individual animals the scroll fragments (written on animal skins) came from and subsequently which fragments belong together. Pretty cool stuff. Also interesting were the examples of lost passages that the Dead Sea Scrolls have helped to recover, the misplaced verses they helped to clarify, and the mistranslations they help to set straight.

Anyway, great stuff. I hope ya'll have the opportunity to tune in.

Enash

It sounds so wonderful! I wish I could watch! :( At any rate your summaries helped THANK YOU!!!! Maybe I'll leave your trout alone in return for more summaries!!! :) -Torment and Pain

"Maybe I'll leave your trout alone in return for more summaries!!! -Torment and Pain"

Well ok, anything to save the trout!

I had a bit of trouble with last evenings' sessions--the internet service in the Dezregot government offices kept cutting off. I was able to hear about 2/3 of one talk...a very good one concerning tragedy and sorrows--along the lines of "Why does God allow bad things to happen." The short answer is that yes, he does care, but no, he will not interfere with anyone's agency. But he will uphold his promises to make everything right in the end.

The speaker gave an interesting example, which, if I remember correctly, was attributed to Boyd K. Packer, concerning a brutal football game. I can't remember the details and don't have my notes with me right now, but it would be worth looking up. I will have Millan, our Chief of Sutaos PefROD see if he can find a reference.

I am looking forward to one other talk, to be given tonight..."Other Voices from the Dust." It sounds like an interesting topic.

Enash

T&P: I am a bit befuddled concerning today’s UN report: You are the Safest Region in Mt. Zion???? It almost makes you sound benevolent…what will your people think?

have no fear!!!!!! My nation's people know the truth!!!!! :D Mewahahahahhahahaha!!!!!

Meh, I only got 6th place on safest...

Capsule Corp: you've moved up on the list to number four...for mining; that's worth a celebratory cheer or two, isn't it? (woo-hoo!)

Speaking of celebratory cheers! The council of Dezregot has just rescinded a really, really bad law. This is a glorious day!

As you may be aware, our people have an, ahem, affection, shall we say, for the pesky little monsters known as Apis mellifera or ‘honeybees’. What you may not know, is that this affection is primarily espoused by Dezregotians from the Northern and Western parts of our fine country. In the Eastern parts of the country, nearly to the central river of Diurdin, the people greatly favor the silkmoth, Bombyx mori. In fact, the craftsmen of the East are really quite fanciful in their use of silk, and silk industry by-products, not only in clothing and textiles, but as food supplements, plant-growth enhancers, as educational tools, as fishing bait, as pet food, as tasty salted snacks, and on and on and on.... You certainly can’t say the same for the honeybee—sure, they are good honey producers, but can you play with them? Can you make clothing fit for kings out of their gladular excretions? Can you collect their sweet-smelling frass to help your collard greens to grow to the size of an elephants’ ear. No, you cannot.

Early on, when both industries were fairly small, everyone got along without too much trouble; everyone kept to their own and minded their own business. As the silk industry began to grow and the silk craftsmen in the East began to more fully develop their fine arts, the beehavers from the West started to feel a bit…I don’t know…ashamed? envious? stung?

It all started innocently enough, the jives, the jokes…In fact I still remember the one about the Silkmoth keeper from Nantucket—that one gets me hooting everytime! Unfortunately, over time, things started to spiral out of control. The Western druids bemoaned the stress the silkworms forced on innocent mulberry trees; the environmentalists decried the rapid spread of mulberry trees and the loss of wild strawberry habitat; nutritionists warned that large collard greens plug the colon better than banana jello and promote Early-onset Bloating Disease (EOBD).

And then the politicians got involved. Sure, maybe there were abuses in the silkmoth industry; maybe there was some grain of truth in their accusations, but all-in-all the abuses and concerns were very minor problems that could easily be taken care of with good husbandry, care and a balanced diet. But no, the politicians hit on a plan to sting the silkmoth industry once and for all. They couched it in the guise of a national good, something to benefit all Dezregotians: the lumberjack, the sawmill, the carpenter, the painter, the pizza delivery guy… They pushed a law through Council requiring all livestock to be maintained in white wooden boxes with internal dimensions of 6-5/8 inches deep by 14-11/16 inches wide and 18-5/16 inches long. The politicians declared that everyone would have to make sacrifices for the common good. But that in the end, the standardization would increase production, prevent waste, enhance communication and place everyone on an equal standing. Well, the beehavers put up a good show—many preferred deep hive bodies and they argued that they, too, would have to make changes, but that, in the end, it would be all for the best. So sure, the beehavers made their changes and moved their bees into a uniform medium hive body, and life went on… But the effects it had on the silkmoth industry (and we won’t even discuss the Cattle Industry—that was just plain sad; oh those poor cows!) were almost devastating. Those poor little caterpillars just weren’t made to live in boxes. While the bees flourished, the silkworms languished, and over the next few years, the Silkmoth industry almost died off. (Interestingly, the Poultry industry did surprisingly well with the change.) In recent years the Silkworm Artisans have made a substantial comeback, but still, while bees are the subject of story and song, you rarely hear of the poor, noble, struggling silkmoth.

The law had its good and its bad effects. All-in-all, we have learned much for this mistake. We in Dezregot have learned to trust in the power of education over force. We have learned that it is best to teach correct principles and let the people govern themselves. Yes, standardized livestock boxes for bees, silkworms, chickens and cattle (well, maybe not cattle…) sounds like a great idea, but the people down in the nitty gritty really need to be given the choice. They need to be allowed to make their own mistakes, learn their own lessons and find the system that works best for them. They need to be given the choice; force is rarely conducive to inclusion.

And now the law has been rescinded! Oh, wonderful day! Once again the lowly silkmoth will rise from the ashes and a glorious silk industry will once again grace our humble nation!

Enash

We will be #1 in mining once our ne shipyards are completed.

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=63125&highlight=

I don't have much time to write at the moment, as I am between meetings for church BUT...

> 1) Dr. Richard Holzapfel, "Let there light: The Scriptures are the Word of God"

Enash - Dr. Holzapfel was in our city a few months ago and gave an amazing fireside where he discussed the idea of "deliverance," using the Old Testement as a basis and comparing it to today. If I can remember to bring my journal to school on Monday, I'll share some of those notes. It was an outstanding talk. I'd like to hear more about his talk during Education week!!

- Yekaterina.

Yekaterina,

I would really like that--his Ed Week discussion was excellent and has really got me thinking about a lot of things that I have always taken for granted. I took fairly extensive notes during his talk (although, if you look them over please understand that any shortcomings in the notes are mine...he did speak rather quickly!)--if you would really be interested, I would be happy to make those available.

I would like to see your notes of his deliverance discussion; he sounds like a sincere scholar with many good insights.

Enash

Yekaterina:

Do you have a Yahoo ID? The easiest way I know of to share files is to post them in the Yahoo Briefcase--this would allow someone to download them as MSWord documents; however, these files are no longer able to be shared with the Public (without paying fees for the premium service.) I can authorize specific users to gain access to my folders, but would need to input your Yahoo ID from my end to do so.

If you have any other suggestions, please let me know. I really would like to see the notes you took on Dr. Dr. Holzapfels' seminar.

It has been quite the week in ol' Dezregot. I am glad it is finally over. Unfortunately, the upcoming week doesn't look much better. Thank goodness for Sundays...at least I get a breather between catastrophies!

We in Dezregot hope that all our neighbors are doing well. We haven't heard from you much in the last week or so and really have missed you. We would like to remind you that the trout fishing continues to be outstanding in Dezregot (OOC: oh, what I wouldn't give for a nice, peaceful trout stream right about now!) and that you all are welcome to come for a visit anytime you need to take a break from life.

Oh, and a word of advice: when the on-line grant proposal form has a button that says "finalize report", it actually means 'submit report and live with the consequences.' Just thought you'd like to know that. :roll:

Again, hope you all are doing well!

Enash

Hello, all!

Many condolences for being absent from regional politics the last week! There has been a lot abroad in the nation of Liahona!

With the rapid influx of refugees flooding our shores from the Nation of Torment and Pain, we have been much preoccupied with moving them into their new homes and helping them to feel at peace with their neighbors. In addition to providing our new countrymen (because many of them have already applied to work in various positions in our economic sector... and gaining citizenship in our country is often easier than gaining a Visa...ehem...) In addition to giving the anti-TPites land and support, we have also been focusing on providing for the human interests of this group.

In addition to these concerns, we have also been dealing with localized flooding in the region due to unseasonal and widespread rains. (Much in contrast to the drought that we were experiencing this exact time last year!) Gratefully, though, the damage created by these storms will provide many of our new countrymen with employment. It is difficult to find things to be grateful for in these trying time, but we try...

Greetings to the new members of our region! Welcome to Mt. Zion. Hopefully, you will find your new region peaceful and meeting all of your needs. Just a word of warning - you might be careful in sending tourists to T&P. There has been news of cannibalism in that nation, and we, for our part, have decided to send out an alert to our people warning them of the dangers of visiting that nation. You may also be inclined to follow suit. Liahona sends her warmest welcomes to all of you. Feel free to visit our country and frollic with our sea otters :D

Enash - as for the notes from my journal - I DO have them, be patient with me, I just keep forgetting to bring them to lab with me :oops: I have it on my "to-do" list, so hopefully tomorrow I will be able to bring them. As for your grant proposal comment... I sympathize.

Your faithful neighbor,
Yekaterina the Great.

Yekaterina,

Glad you are back, we were getting worried.

Have you gained control of the Regional Fact book? I seem to remember Nicolai mentioning that she contacted the regional founder about giving you that control. I hope that takes place before The People's Republic of Nephi Moroni ceases to exist in 12 days.

It is hard to believe the year is so far advanced...(10 minute pause as Enash ponders the passing year and tries to squash the pangs of panic at the thought of the soon to arrive holiday season :shock: ).

The people of Dezregot are pleased that all seems to be working out with the refugees from T&P. We hope that the political and moral problems in T&P will soon be worked out. In the meantime, Dezregot is now in a good position to accept refugees as well. We have a favorable laborers' market with high demand for both skilled and unskilled labor. We also have a housing surplus and our food reserves are top notch. We would welcome the overflow from your fine nation, if such a need exists.

In fact, in an open invitation, we would like to consider an open border policy for all our fine regional neighbors. This would pertain to people and trade. We hope that through an open border, free-trade, agreement, we might be able to share our resources to make the region of Mt. Zion among the best in the world.

Enash

At long last...here are my notes from the lecture by Dr. Holzapfel. Note, they are in a strange format (ie, I'm typing them directly as I had in my journal):

The Exodus Story

- Major charge against Israel in Hosea is rejecting the stranger.
- Elder Kimball - "The most important work in the English language is 'remember'."
- 11th commandment: Thou shalt remember
- Deut 5:15 - "Remember that thou wast a servant."
- Sacrament prayer - D&C 20:77 "that hey may eat in remembrance...and always remember Him." D&C 20:79 - same.
- Word "remember" is used 4x every Sunday in Sacrament
- We often have a selective memory of how God has come into our lives. The real purpose of history is to help us understand the past.

Old Testement (OT)

- Pentatuch - 5 writings. All quote from Greek OT Bible. Jews name books by the first words in the books: ie, Deut = "These be the words which"; Exodus = "These are the names of"
- God does not deliver everyone in every hour in every need. "Nobody gets out of this life alive." All will die in suffering. This is what life is about!
- The last phase of discipleship *is* physical suffering. "Take up your cross" implies physical suffering. Struggling with sight, breath, etc. As you grow closer to death, this is a trail, experiences, wherein we find God.
- The reason God intervenes sometimes is to give us *hope* in teh final judgement. It is a model of faith.
- Exodus story is brought up in OT, NT and BOM. It is a story to give us confidence that God *can* intervene and *will* intervene in the last days.
- 2nd coming --> Radical intervention to stop crime, problems, etc.
- Many religions (Jews, Christians, Muslims) all believe a Messiah will come again.
- The Exodus story reminds us that God delivers His people from time to time temporally as a promise that He will one day deliver us spiritually. Moses is a type and parallel of the Savior!
- Moses 6:63 - "All things bear record of the Savior."
- One reason that symbolism is difficult for us is that we come from a Protestant background and aren't used to typologies, etc.

Deliverance

- Papers in egneral- catchy story and thesis, provide evidence and conclude with synopsis. Compare with book of Nephi -

Thesis - "But behold, I, Nephi, will show until you that the tender mercies of teh Lord are over all those whom he hath chosen because of their faith, to make them mighty even unto the power of *deliverance*."

The purpose of these stories is to remind us that we must HAVE FAITH that God *will* will deliver us.

- Sometiems there *is* the Abrahamic story where the hand is stayed. But other times, there is the Mount Golgatha where the hand is not stayed and we must suffer for our obedience to God. Suffering is as much a part of mortality as deliverance.
- 1 Nephi 9: Count the number of times the Lord says "deliver" - the purpose of these stories is to teach us to have faith in deliverence.
- We must remember, at our hardest, that we need to remain faithful, God will deliver us, and there will come a time when our worries are no more.
- Rev. 7:17 - "and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes."
- Consider the book of Job and his life. He had all suffering and no deliverence.
- Book od Genesis - in the temple, the man represents Abraham and the woman Sarah - implies all the covenants are renewable. All that God has done, He can do again!
- Promise of Abraham - endless seed, Gospel covenants, land --> renewable
- We put our own timetable on the Lord - don't give up on God just because His timetable is not our own.

Here is more...I just wanted to make sure it didn't get cut off...

Exodus 1-3

* Exodus 1:7- The Lord has kept His promises to Israel
* Exodus 1:8-11 - Pharaoh threatens to break the covenant - He says will keep Israel from multiplying (and in Egypt, absolute monarchy reigned - if the Pharaoh said it, it was so.) COmpare this to our own problems - we also fall into troubles. No one has a perfect life. Everyone will face challenges. Compare to when Joself was told, you will not prosper temporally.
* Exodus 1:12 - Israel continues to have faith and continues to multiply. So, Egypt continues to punish them with suffering. Discipline = better or bitter --> Never bail out! This is the church of Christ, and it is His church, not anyone elses. He will keep His words. The Pharoah sends forth a law to kill all the male children (compare to Herod).
- Anther lesson in the OT is that women have the upper hand --> Pharoah is usurped by midwives, Moses' mother, sister, and Pharoah's daughter.
* Exodus 2:23-24- In our trials, we must continue to pray to Gid. He will hear us and remember His promises to us.
* Exodus 3:1 - As Moses leads flock to the mount of the Lord, the Savior leads us to God.
* Exodus 3:7 - Personal Application
1. "I have seen the affliction" - God knows your problems, He sees them
2. "I have heard their cries." - God listens to our prayers.
3. "I know their sorrows." - God understands (He has been there - Gethsemane)
4. "And I am come down to deliver the...and to bring them out of that land." - God will deliver us

* Exodus 3:10 - "bring forth my children of Israel out of Egypt" - out of Babylon/this earth
* Exodus 3:11 - The Lord needs us and relies on us to do His work. As the Lord calls us to be His disciple, He will empower us to do His will.

- I Am= the self-existing one/ Jehovah=He is --> God is. because of that, we live, we breathe, and we can trust in Him.

The Promised Land = Celestial Kingdom
Egypt = the World
Physical Bondage = sin/spiritual bondage
Taskmaster (Pharoah) = Satan
Moses = Christ
Red Sea = Baptism
Wilderness = Terrestrial Life
Pillar of Fire = Holy Ghost
Mt Sinai = temple
"God writes on the fleshy tables of our hearts" versus 10 commandements
River Jordan = the veil
Joshua leads them in = Jesus
Jehovah saves --> He brings us back into Celestial Kingdom

- 2 Nephi 9:41 - In temple, as we get closer to the celestial room, doors become narrower until we reach veil
* Rev. 7:9 - We cannot understand how many people will be in heaven. for every 1 person baptized here, there are 100 by proxy.
* Rev. 7:14 - As we have faith in Jesus, we will be delivered
* Rev. 7:17 - Living fountains of water - Mt. Timp temple

He said a couple other things that I'm not including just because I'm not sure they are appropriate to share (ie, temple stuff). Even some of the stuff I did include here I am curious about....

Anyway, enjoy!!!

- Yekaterina.

Can you bring your notes with you on Friday? When you come? I'd love to hear more detailed of what you wrote! -Nicolai

Will do! Bear in mind, the seminar was the "Know your Religion" lecture in Nov of last year, so I'm not sure how much I will really *remember* from a lot of it :-)

Great notes! It sounds like it was a great talk...a lot of meat in there.

The only thing I don't agree with...
"* Exodus 2:23-24- In our trials, we must continue to pray to Gid"

--I am not sure who this Gid is, but I feel somewhat uncomfortable praying to the guy :?

Just thought I'd add something new to my, er "our" message board. I'm debating taking it over. With my country doing well these days, (aside from the car accidents) and the boredom that comes from being at war with just one of my neighbors I'm considering the new idea of war with ALL of my neighbors. So...,, Maybe I should just say... This thread is MINE! Mewhahahahaha! :twisted: :wink:

Um...how do you intend on making the forum "yours" precisely, Nicolai?

well, I would just use my marvelous powers of "persuasion" :D Duh Yekaterina! :wink:

(Enash ponders the prospect of smuggling cars into T&P...) 8)

What was that? Hmm..., I thought I heard a buzz! I guess it was just wishful thinking on my part...... Beehives? What a wonderful idea! I know just where I can "borrow" some! :P (In response to the car smuggling :D) :twisted:

Suddenly it all becomes clear...we, as a nation, thought it rather odd that of the tens of millions of bees we hive each year this one particular colony did not want to become happy little Dezregotian workers. This one particular colony which seems intent on TORMENTING us...desirous to cause us PAIN...

The answer may be as plain as the nose on my face: killer bees...sent to us from abroad. Who would do such a thing? Who could be so cruel? Such an act, caused knowingly and with evil intent, may mean war...

Enash, the stung

I...er 'we' would love to take credit for such brilliant an act but alas, we cannot. As soon as you find out who it was please let us know we would love to offer our respect! :wink: We wish we had thought of it first :P .

Thank you though, for the heads up. We will take it into consideration and perhaps with the help of our allies (of the people m) we can figure out a way to get around the killer bees and go straight for the honey. Buzz.. Buzz.. As soon as we get the honey we will send you a thank you note :twisted: :wink: -Nicolai the Tormentor

Well, now that we've had a chance to cool down, we have decided to trust your statement of non-involvement and have put the war machine on temporary standby.

But a note to all: beware! we will not tolerate the infiltration of our domesticated Apis with 'killer' genetics. We have worked too long and too hard to develop and provide for our special strains to have them contaminated with terrorist traits. For the sake of national security, we will protect our stocks to the utmost of our ability. Terrorists will be dealt with in a manner befitting their crimes, as will all those who seek to plunder, disturb or steal our precious little bees.

On a totally different subject...have any of ya'll read any good books lately? We would be very curious to know what you have read and why you liked them. Recommendations? The "Little Britches" series (Ralph Moody) is excellent; as is "Where the Red Fern Grows" (Wilson Rawls). The Horatio Hornblower series (C.S. Forester) is phenomenal. "Two Years Before the Mast," "Westward Ho" and "A Tale of Two Cities" are also very good reads.

Just a thought,
Enash

I forgot about the Browery. :oops:

I'm here now...*reads through it*

*Alright, alright, huh-huh, intersting, hmm...not so sure about that, alright, time to tackle the old testiment*

1st off--as all of you know(I thank) I'm not a...whatever you people are(religious wise), I'm a Baptist.

I'm looking @ Lathonia's post from Thur 9.11

The Exodus story was given in the book of Exodus..was Hosea even around then?? :?:

The 10 Commandment were given in stone and written by God himself...where is the 11th Commandment???

I can agree with Duet 5:15...the NIV translation says Remember that you were a slave...but I can see how that can fit(don't have my KJV with me @ the moment.)

D&C???/

The book of Pentatuch isn't in the Bible

BOM WTH?????

Many religions (Jews, Christians, Muslims) all believe a Messiah will come again

BUT there is one messiah..one God and His son's blood was shed on Galgotha's hill aka Calvery. There is ONE PATH to Heaven.
Also, the Jews the Messiah is yet to come

Moses is a type and parallel of the Savior!

I'm sorry. I can't agree with that. There is one Savior...Moses lead his people out of bondage, BUT he, like all people, had sin in his life, "For all fall short of the glory of God" and he was not the savior.


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GOING ON THROUGH THE POSTS...

Nothing I'd care to comment on @ the moment.

Of the People-M

Hey -m, glad to see you back in the Bowery!

As you look through Yekaterinas' notes, remember that she was taking these while listening to a lecture--and from my own experience, I know that Dr. Holzapfel speaks VERY rapidly! You are right, Hosea was not around during the Exodus; Yekaterina will be able to confirm this, but I suspect Dr. Holzapfel started out talking about the Exodus, but Yekaterina was only able to write down the topic before he moved on to the next subject--she probably wrote down "The Exodus Story" to remind herself to look it up again.

As for the 11th commandment, don't take it too literally. He was not claiming that there was an 11th commandment contained on Moses' tablets, he was saying, in essence, that one of the major messages of the scriptures is to "remember". Recall that in all the Jewish holidays, many of which were dictated by the Lord through the Law of Moses, remembrance is the major purpose. Have you ever read the passover ceremony? The entire ceremony is designed to help the Jewish people remember the dealings of God with Israel, especially in respect to the freeing of the Israelites from Egypt. Many of the scriptures tell us that we need to remember. Dr. Holzapfel was simply distilling the massive body of scriptural references that tell us to remember God's dealings with man, God's love for man, God's promises to man, etc. and telling us that since this is such a major topic throughout the scriptural record, it is almost like an 11th commandment saying, "Thou shalt remember."

Deut 5:15 was an example of the commandment to remember, and seems to indicate that one of the major purposes of the Sabbath day is for us to take time to remember God.

The Pentatuch is not a book in the Bible, rather it is the first five books in the Old Testament. It is a term used by the Jews to group together the five books written by Moses ("pent" meaning five, as in pentagon, a five-sided figure).

Definitions:

-BOM is the Book of Mormon. As members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we believe in the Bible as well as in other scriptural records. One of these other records is the Book of Mormon. The BoM is the record of three groups of people who left Judea and were led by the Lord to the Americas. It describes their experiences and teachings through about 400 A.D. It contains the writings of prophets in the Americas who tried to teach the people about Jesus Christ and includes a visit from the Savior, a visit to some of his "other sheep" (St. John 10:16), following his crucifiction and resurrection in Judea.

-D&C is the Doctrine and Covenants. This is a book of scripture as recorded by a prophet, Joseph Smith, Jr., who lived in the early 1800's and who helped to restore the Church of Jesus Christ. The D&C records the words of Jesus Christ as he directed Joseph Smith in estabilishing the Church--the responsibilities of the members, the organization of the leadership, promises and warnings, etc. for these latter-days. Basically, we believe that after the Apostles (Peter, James, etc.) were killed the Church entered a period of apostacy (the falling away, 2 Thes. 2:2-3), wherein the undiluted gospel was taken from the earth. Catholics don't believe the gospel was lost--they believe they emerged from the Dark Ages with the authority of the gospel; but Protestants generally do believe in an apostacy, simply believing that the church needed to be reorganized to better reflect the teachings of the Bible. We basically agree with the Protestants that the gospel (as held by the Catholics) became contaminated with the teachings of man, but we believe that the gospel had to be restored by heaven and that a reorganization was not enough. The D&C outlines the restoration of the truth and authority of the gospel by the hand of God.

The Messiah: yes, there is only one Messiah: Jesus Christ. Dr. Holzapfel was simply stating that in each of the world's major religious movements, there is/was a belief in the coming of a promised Messiah. Obviously, we believe that Messiah has already come. As you point out, the Jews are still waiting. I don't know where the Muslims stand...I would guess they believe that Mohammed was the messiah, but I really don't know...maybe they are still waiting as well?

"Moses is a type and parallel of the Savior"
-Well, take a broad look at the Old Testament. God dealt with the Jews in very symbolic ways. Many of the stories of the Old Testament were "types and parallels" of the promised Messiah; in other words, they were symbols to teach the Jews about, or foreshadow, the coming of Christ.

Remember the experience of Abraham and Issac? That story was a "type and parallel" of God offering his Only Begotten Son to be sacrificed.

Dr. Holzapfel was certainly not saying that Moses was the Savior! He was saying that as God's prophet and as the leader of the Israelites in their journey through the wilderness, he was an example of the Savior...the message being that as important as it was for the Israelites to follow Moses, God's chosen prophet at that time, in order to make it to the promised land, it is even more important for us to follow Jesus Christ today, if we hope to make it to our "promised land".

Remember, the word "type" refers to an image that foreshadows another. The image of Moses, as leader of the Israelites helping them find the promised land, foreshadows--or is an example of--the image of us following our true leader, Jesus Christ, to our Heavenly Home.

There are "types" or foreshadows of the Savior throughout the Old Testament--and it makes sence that there are...the purpose of the Old Testament was to teach the people about Jesus Christ--to train them to look forward to the coming of the Messiah.

This was fun! I hope it helps you better understand Yekaterinas notes--you may not agree with them, in toto, but hopefully they make more sence to you. Questions? Feel free to ask, that is the purpose of the Bowery!

Enash

Okay... Wow! A little intimitated and wishing I knew more on how to explain myself but I agree with everything Dezregot said above :D

On with my own little self involved world.... M- Are you with me on the invasion? :D Okay, maybe not so much an invasion as a night thiefery. (Is that even a word? Wait! Of course it is! I'm dictator around here!) Would you like to join me for a night of honey stealing? :twisted: It'll be fun. Just liken it to cow tippin' and we'll have a blast! :D (Of course Cows aren't sticky and there is a chance of being stung. And we aren't tipping anything, and there actually aren't any cows involved! ) What do ya say! :wink: :twisted: -Nicolai the Tormentor

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:twisted: Yay! When and where shall we meet? The honey awaits! :D - T & P I'm thinking Midnight is the best time for us. And the beehavers and the bees should be asleep! :D

I am warning you...a beehive never sleeps! There is contant activity 24 hours a day. Individual bees catch a snooze now and then, but the colony, as a whole, is constantly on guard.

In addition, our little bees, as I have warned you before, and as sweet as they seem, are each outfitted with the most recent Seek and Destroy Gadgetry. They will hunt down invaders, poachers, encroachers and disturbers of the peace. They may seem peaceful in the wee hours of the night, but incur their wrath at your own peril!

Besides, our boarders and all navigable waterways are protected by French (Canadian) Poodle Mounties...and you know how vicious they can be!

ah the dreaded poodle mounties. Hmm should we think this over some more M? :evil:

Ok, here's the deal...and I need input!

Maulbe (the lavander-haired old Lady who was kicking up her heels with OTP-m on the dancefloor at our recent party) has been serving as a Sunday School teacher of 15-16 year olds. This year they are focusing on the New Testament; currently on Paul's writtings.

Maulbe is concerned that she is not reaching her students. She apparently uses some sort of quiet lecture format, which, needless to say, doesn't go over well with her students.

She has tried different approaches--assigning scripture references to each student then having each student determine the main point and acting it out in charades; ditto, explaining it "Taboo"-style (unable to use certain obvious words to get the main point across); etc.

Anyway...she doesn't really care for the games idea--she thinks it is ok once in a while, but doesn't seem to promote the right spirit of reverence when used all the time...it usually turns into some sort of contact sport, or some such thing...

So, she really REALLY could use your ideas. How can she catch the attention of 16 year olds long enough to get them interested in the scriptures? (Please give me some ideas...Maulbe is really getting on my nerves with all her pouting, crying and begging for ideas...I've got to be able to tell her something!)

Enash

I'll get back to ya..

Dezregot - re: your sunday school question. I've found it useful to bribe with candy - ie, give the kids some candy when they get a question right, have done their reading for the week, etc. They won't lie to get the candy when they are at church, and the peer pressure may help them to become more encouraged to do their reading in the future.

Also, have you made sure that they all have the NT study manual thingys that go along with the year's Sunday School topic? Sometimes they get lost, etc. They are a good thing to have to remind them what they should be studying. Another suggestion with that might be to print out a list of the reading for each week on a small sheet of paper that they can keep at the front of their scripture to remind them.

Other suggestions would be to include some kind of visual aid in the class -handouts, or posters, etc., seem to work well. Something they can look at so they aren't just listening the whole time. Other suggestions might be to have a fun attention-activity to get them excited about the lesson, before getting to the nitty-gritty. I don't know how well the lesson manuals are at giving attention-activities, sometimes they can be lame. But in general, its often a good idea to start with an object lesson to start with to get the attention of the group you are teaching - particularly when dealing with teenagers.

Let me know if that doesn't help, I'm sure you've already thought of a lot of these, they are just what has helped me in the past.

- Yekaterina.

Also, teh question about what books we have read recently... :) It takes me awhile to get caught up on these posts... Well, teh best series I have read recently is the Thursday Next series by Jasper Fford, if you want any more suggestions about those books, just as Nicolai. They include the "Eyre Affair," "Lost in a Good Book," and a third book that is currently only in print in the UK. I'm also in the middle of a reread of the Time Chronicles ("A Wrinkle in Time," "A Wind in the Door," "A Swiftly Tilting Planet," and "Many Waters") by Madeline L'Engle :)

Yekaterina: thank you for your suggestions. I have tried the bribes, but all the girls are on diets and/or refuse to eat in front of the boys, and the boys usually have their own pockets filled with gum, candy, etc (which of course they refuse to share with me). I will try to stress the reading--that is one thing I really haven't done, probably because I don't have much faith that they will put forth the effort.

I read A Wrinkle in Time a long time ago and remember enjoying it, though I don't remember much about it. Maybe it is time to read it again. I haven't heard of the Thursday Next series...if you or Nicholai could give us a synopsis, I would greatly appreciate it!

Speaking of Nicholai, is she doing alright?

I am reminded of her car accident. Someone ran a red light last night as I was returning the Elders to their apartment after exchanges. They demolished my wonderful little red car. No one was hurt. I would be curious to know how the T&P automobile ban is working out; we may need to implement such a policy in Dezregot.

Enash

Thanks for the interest. Quick rundown of
Thursday Next series.... 1985 England, parallel world, books within books, people being able to go inside works of literature and meet the characters. VERY GREAT WONDERFUL BOOKS!!! READ THEM!!! K that's that. You can order The Eyre Affair off of Amazon. The writer is Jasper Fforde. Enjoy!

All is okay here, thanks for the interest talk more when I have the time
-Nicolai the tormentor

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