NationStates Jolt Archive

Because a lot of nation staters and E20 players in particular like to fight wars and the 20th Century is full of them

General Rules
Ground units scale for game purposes
Corps sized (45,000 men) include corps and headquarters units
Division sized (20,000 men) include divisions as well as garrison units, typically 3 divisions make up a corps
Brigade sized (4,000 men) include brigades and some regiments, typically 3 brigades make up a division (plus support troops)
Ground units are actually smaller (1/2 to 2/3 size indicated) but this includes various levels of support, administration, people in training etc.

Naval units scale for game purposes
Each naval unit requires 4,000 men (including people ashore) to support and man it. Beginning at tech level 5, each naval unit requires only 3,000 men.

Air units scale for game purposes
each air unit requires 4,000 men to support and man it and is 75 aircraft. Typically air units are called either Wings or Groups
Air depots are brigade sized units and have 4,000 men.

If you have over 4 air units, you also need an supply unit for every 5 air units you have. These supply units are called air depots and cost the same as a naval base to build and maintain. You must designate where each air depot is located.

Size limitations
Nations with volunteer forces cannot have more then 2% of their total population in their military (including navy, army and colonial forces). Another 2% can be reservists but only available in wartime. A nation with a volunteer military that has reached its productivity maximum cannot have more the 1% of its population in the regular forces as jobs are plentiful, money is good and family men aren't willing to stay in the service when they need money to support their families. UNLESS that nation is willing to pay double maintenance costs, then it can have 2% in the military (higher salaries and more benefits). However, paying higher maintenance isn't popular with voters so this is possible only in times of crisis or tension with a potential enemy (like a Cold War situation). The United States and British Imperial and Commonwealth nations CAN however keep up to 3% of their population in reserve units.

Nations with conscription cannot have more then 3% of their total population in the military (all forces) plus another 7% (up to 10% total) as reservists (available only upon mobilization). The United States and British Imperial and Commonwealth nations cannot have conscription until they fight a world war.

Example: So if you have a population of 10 million, you can only have a military of 300,000 men if you have conscription, plus another 700,000 reservists. So you could have 3 corps, 2 divisions, and 7 naval units as your regular forces, plus another 9 corps of reservists and plus another reserve division and a reserve brigade. Assuming of course you can pay for that army.

Imperial troops
Some nations can draw from their colonial populations to raise troops. However, Imperial and Colonial units are only 50% natives, as the officer corps, senior NCOs, and specialists are almost always non natives. This ensures reliability and also is because the natives generally are interested in fighting, not counting beans or bullets.

Special rules
Britian can recruit infantry and garrison units from its Caribbean, African and Asian territories. British Imperial forces cannot be stationed in Europe except in wartime, and are generally stationed in their home country except for Indian forces, which can be anywhere east of Suez.

Belgium, Portugal, and the Netherlands can only recruit garrison units from their colonial territories which can only be stationed in the colony that they are raised.

The US can recruit infantry, coast defense, fortress and garrison troops from the Philippines for service in the Philippines.

Spain and Germany can recruit infantry and garrison units from their African territories for service in their colonial territories.

France and Italy can recruit infantry, garrison and cavalry units from their African territories but these troops cannot be stationed in either France or Italy except during wartime.

Russia can recruit infantry and cavalry units from its Central Asian territories (and that population counts seperate from its ethnic European population). Central Asian troops cannot be stationed in Central Asia.

Japan can recruit fortress and garrison units only from its Manchurian and Korean territories, and also can recruit supply units from those territories (an exception to above rule). Manchurian and Korean troops can be stationed in anywhere desired.


Special Wartime size restrictions
In wartime, after the first year of a war, and once a war economy is chosen as an economic option, you can mobilize up to 15% of your population into the military. However, that extra 5% can only be defensive units like flak, garrison, police, fortress and militia units. This represents your drafting men over 35, boys under 18, and women volunteers (as the century goes along), and even men as old as 60. These people aren't physically able to man front line units. There is also a trade off in food production (see economic rules) and industrial production

Foreign Legions
The French and Spanish each have Foreign Legions. The French can have up to 20,000 (up to 4 brigades), while the Spanish can have 10,000 (2 brigades). These troops cannot be stationed in either France or Spain for political reasons. The size maximum will change from time to time. They are generally light infantry but can be motorized or even marine units.

The Sharif of Mecca also has a foreign legion type unit. This unit cannot exceed the size of his own army but otherwise has no other size restriction. It must be cavalry or light infantry only.

Maintenance
In wartime, the maintenance costs of air and ground units are doubled.

in peacetime, reserve units have their maintenance costs halved.

Fuel requirements
Naval and air units, and some ground units require oil to operate. Some older naval units require coal instead of oil. Each Naval and Air unit requires oil available equal to half of their maintenance cost each year. In wartime, air units and carriers require oil equal to their full maintenance costs (increased operating tempo).

In addition, the following ground units require oil equal to one quarter their maintenance cost
HQ units
Supply units
Motorized Infantry corps

The following ground units require oil equal to half their maintenance cost
Motorized HQs and Supply units
Motorized Divisions and Brigades
Marine units
Armored units

Building ground units
It takes one year to build a ground unit, 6 months if you don't mind them being the equivilant of 2nd line reservists. Upgrading a unit from one type (cavalry) to another type (armor) takes another year (so 2 years to convert a unit or 1 year to build it from scratch) This represents retraining that is necessary.

Ground combat 1925

Supply and support units
Headquarters unit 6 points, maintenance 1, must be tech level 5 to build one
Can reorganize 1 unit a turn, and acts as a forward supply base
Supply unit 4 points, maintenance .5 (must be tech level 3 to build one)
Acts as a forward supply base
Motorized HQ unit cost 10 points, maintenance 2, (US cost 8, maintenance 1), can reorganize 2 units a turn, and acts as a forward supply base,
Motorized Supply units cost 6 points, maintenance 1 (US cost 4, maintenance 1),
Acts as a forward supply base,

HQ and supply units are corps sized units. An HQ or Supply unit can supply all units with 4 hexes of them. A motorized HQ or supply unit can support all units within 6 hexes of them. HQ and supply units in turn must be within 4 hexes of a major port, or major city with a railline that is free of enemy forces back to their homeland or a major port. Ports can only be used as supply sources if the enemy doesn't own the sea leading to that port. A supply unit can be used to provide a link to extend this range. So for example an HQ unit that is 12 hexes away from a port or rail line can have 2 supply units or HQs in between to extend that range. Ranges of course are halved on the Asian WIF map. All HQ and supply units have 1 point of defense value.

Units can also be directly supplied if within 4 hexes of a major port or major city with a direct rail connection to their capital. A unit in a fortress (not a fort) remains in supply for 6 months even if not otherwise in supply. Units that are out of supply attack at half their combat strength, and cannot move except by rail or sea.

HQs can also be used to reorganize units that are fought out. An HQ can reorganize 2 corps, while a motorized HQ can reorganize 4 corps.

Combat units
Corps sized units
Infantry corps (formerly heavy infantry) – equipped with heavy field artillery (155 and 105 mm guns), has 3 infantry divisions plus engineers, recon, corps artillery and other support units. Cost 4 points, maintenance 1 point, firepower 6 (attack or defense), movement 3 (1 on Asia map)
Cavalry Corps 5 points, maintenance 1,
Weaker then infantry in combat value but can move further in a turn, firepower 3 (attack or defense), movement 4 (2 on Asia map)
Fortress Infantry corps 4 points, maintenance 1, includes fort, if moves out of fort becomes a static infantry corps, cannot move except by rail or by sea. Cannot attack, defense is 6.
Static infantry corps – cost 3 points, maintenance .25 points, has lighter artillery or lower quality personnel or both then an infantry corps, firepower is 3, movement 2 (1 of Asia map)
Motorized infantry corps – same as infantry corps, but has enough trucks to move all of its heavy equipment, supplies and artillery (while an infantry corps uses horses for that). Can move as far as a cavalry corps in good terrain and also gets a firepower bonus (speedier ammunition flow, more flexibility with its artillery). Cost 6 points (5 points for US), maintenance 1.5 points (horses are almost as expensive as trucks to run). Movement is 4 (2 on Asia map), firepower is 7
Militia corps – inadequately trained and equipped static infantry. Firepower is 2, movement is 2 (1 on Asia map), cost 2, maintenance .10. However, if survives a major battle or 6 months on the front line without being destroyed automatically becomes a static infantry corps.

Division sized units
Police unit 2 points, maintenance .25
1 police unit per 10 million will prevent uprisings in home territory or colonial territory and also reduce the effects of guerilla warfare and terrorism and anti state movements. Has negligible combat value however. Democratic nations can only build police units if an insurrection or rebellion is underway or imminent.
Garrison unit 2 points, maintenance .25, firepower 1, movement 2 (1 Asia map)
1 garrison unit per 5 million will prevent uprisings in colonial territories or reduce effects of guerilla warfare in occupied territories, firepower 1, movement 2 (1 on Asia map)
Light or Mountain Infantry Division 2 points, maintenance .25
Can operate in difficult terrain, and moves faster then regular infantry, movement 4 (2 on Asia map), ignores effects of weather or terrain for movement, firepower 1,
Cavalry division 3 points, maintenance .5 Can also act as a garrison unit, firepower 1, movement 4 (2 on Asia map)
Motorized infantry division cost 3 points (2 for US), maintenance .5 (.25 for US), movement 5 (3 on Asia map), firepower 2,
Fortress division, cost 2 points, maintenance .5 (includes a fort) if moved out of the fort becomes a garrison unit, firepower 2 (defense only, cannot attack), movement by rail or sea only
militia divisions cost 1, maintenance .25, firepower 1, movement 2 (1 on Asia map), becomes a light infantry division if survives a major battle or 6 months on the line without being destroyed
flak division cost 2. maintenance .75, firepower 1, movement 2 (1 on Asia map)
provides anti aircraft defense for critical areas, can be disrupted
Artillery divisions cost 8 points, maintenance 4, movement 2 (1 on Asia map), firepower (attack) 4, firepower (defense) 1, has no defense unless stacked with an infantry unit of same size or larger

Brigade sized units
Coast defense fortress, cost 3 points, maintenance .5, cannot move (once built stays in place). If moved, becomes a garrison unit. Firepower 1 (against ground units), Firepower 5 (against amphibious assault), Can be disrupted by naval or air bombardment.

assault engineer brigade 2 points, maintenance . 5, firepower 0 (assists other troops), movement 4, triples the combat strength of 1 corps or 2 divisions or 6 brigades against fortresses and fortress troops or if attacking a city. Can also be used in amphibious landings if stacked with a marine unit. MUst be tech level 5 to build these units (and unlike other units, cannot be provided by a friendly ally for you. You country must be tech level 5)

Light infantry brigade 1 point, maintenance .10, firepower 1, movement 5 (3 on Asia map), ignores terrain and weather, can be carried by any naval unit (except submarines), can make unopposed amphibious landings

Motorized infantry brigade cost 2 points, maintenance 1, firepower 2, movement 4 (2 on Asia map),

Marine brigade 2 points, maintenance .5, firepower 2, movement 2 (1 on Asia map)
Can make opposed amphibious landings, includes landing craft, can only be transported by a transport or liner unit

Siege artillery brigade cost 2 points, maintenance .25, firepower 2 (1 defense)
Can only be transported by rail, reduces the effects of forts and fortresses, can also be used to shoot at ships (although not as well as a coastal defense unit)

militia brigades cost .25, maintenance .05, firepower 1, movement 2 (1 on Asia map)

armored brigades (only available if you have researched them), cost 2.5, maintenance .5, firepower 2, movement 4 (2 on Asia map)

proficiency ratings
untrained militia 1 (created by referee when applicable)
police units 2
trained militia 3
older (have been out of the service over 4 years) reservists (static and fortress units) 4
reservists (infantry and cavalry units) 5
conscript regulars / volunteer reservists 6
volunteer regulars 7
elite regulars 8 (only marines, mountain troops)

national bonuses to profiency as of 1925
All marine units get an extra +1
Germany + 3
France, UK, USA Regular forces, German reserves + 2
UK reserve, Russia, Japan, Imperial China, Italy, USA reserve, Australia, Canada, Spain, South Africa, India, French reserve +1
Turkish, Greece, Rumania, Bulgaria, KMT China, Siam, Argentina, Brazil, all other European + 0
all other Asian, African, Latin American nations - 1 or - 2 or even -3

Effects of profiency
When a unit with higher profiency attacks a unit with lower profiency it gets a combat bonus to dice rolls. You may also spend less peacetime maintenance on your troops, for economy reasons, which halves the cost of their maintenance but reduces profiency by - 2

examples:
German heavy Infantry corps are either prof 8 or 9, while Russian infantry corps are 7 or 6

Other adjustments
Units defending are doubled in strength
units defending in rough terrain, behind a river line, or in a major city are tripled in defense
units defending in a fortress are quadrupled in defense

Special
Fortresses
Certain locations are so heavily fortified (and have been for so long) that they are especially difficult to attack. A fortress costs 1 point a year to maintain and any combat unit can defend them without penalty. To build a fortress costs 1 point a year for 5 years.
Forts are less difficult to attack (but still hard) and are created and maintained along with their fortress troops.

Ammunition stockpile - cost 6 points, maintenance 2 points, (stack with 1 HQ unit and moves with it), doubles attack strength of 8 corps sized units in one attack
Chemical Weapons stockpile (as above, but only when chemical weapons capability is achieved). Also doubles attack strength of 8 corps. Can be used in conjuction with an ammunition stockpile to quadruple in attack strength up to 8 corps.

Stockpiles can be used to improve the defenders as well, and yes, if a corps is in a fortress, supported by a General, and uses an ammunition and chemical stockpile it can indeed have its defense improved by x 9

Generals are created by the referee only, A general doubles the firepower of up to 2 corps worth of units. Generals do not exist in peacetime for game purposes.

Replacement units – Available in wartime only and during lulls in the action, or in parts of the front when no large battles are going on, or because of illness or disease, units will still suffer casualties unless they are behind the lines. It is possible for a unit to literally melt away because of this. Replacements are therefore needed. You can scrap a lower quality unit to keep a higher quality unit on the front line or replace it as it dies or most cheaply, buy replacement units that are essentially pools of trained personnel that are assigned as needed. A replacement unit (corps, division or brigade) can be used to provide people to keep the army up to strength.
replacement corps are 2 points, .25 points maintenance, 4 months
replacement divisions are .5 points, .10 points maintenance, 4 months
replacement brigades are .25 points, .05 point maintenance, 4 months

Upgrading units
spend the difference in cost and allow for 6 months and you can upgrade a unit from brigade to division, or division to corps, or improve a brigade, division or corps sized unit in quality from militia or reserve to regular, or convert it from one type of unit (such as garrison etc) to another (such as infantry)

Naval units costs and rules 1925
Capital Ships
Battleship (formerly SDNs, DNs and BC 1, BC2 and BC3) cost 6 points a year for 3 years, maintenance .5 (note the increase),

Coast defense battleship (small size SDNs) cost 4 points a year for 3 years, maintenance is .25, and are generally heavily gunned and armored for their size, but have short range and moderate speed.
Pre dreadnought battleships are no longer being built, maintenance is .5 as parts are getting scarce

Unless you already have battleship technology, you will have to spend 100 points (10 points a year for ten years) and build one navy yard to get it. If you have DN or BC technology but not SDN or BC2 technology it will cost 50 points (10 points a year for 5 years). Coast defense battleship technology costs the same as DN technology (50 points over 5 years).

Battleship tech level 5.5 battleships require 5 points a year for 5 years research before construction is allowed. They require 4 years in peacetime to be completed
16 inch gun battleships cost 10 points a year for 4 years to build (gets you a ship around 40,000 tons with combat value 5-6-5-5 or a combination thereof (you can sacrifice speed or range for greater defense, or protection for more speed) (historical North Carolina class)
15 inch gun battleships cost 7 points a year for 4 years to build (gets you a ship around 40,000 tons with a combat value of 4-6-5-5 of combination (see above)(historical King George V class or Littorio class)
another 5 points a year for 5 years gets you 50,000 ton battleships
(historical Iowa class or Bismark)
add another 20 points and you can build the Yamato (Japan only)
the Yamato class costs 12 points a year for 5 years

modernizing battleships – you can spend 6 points for 1 year, and modernize a older battleship. This gives it anti aircraft guns, improvement torpedo protection, more reliable engines, float planes and otherwise brings it up to tech level 5.5. You can modernize 1 battleship for every naval yard you have but no more then 25% of your fleet can be in the dockyard at one time.

Aircraft Carriers
Must be tech level 5, and be able to build your own aircraft. Initially carriers are converted from other ships and aren’t as efficient as later (tech level 5.5) purpose built carriers. Maintenance includes the cost of the carrier air planes and aircrews assigned.

Seaplane tenders cost 2, maintenance .25, provide improved spotting capability, combat 0, defense 0, speed 4, range 4

Seaplane carriers (converted ocean liners) cost 3 points and 1 ocean liner unit, maintenance is .5 for each carrier (2 created), combat 0, defense 0, speed 5, range 4, air combat 1, naval strike 1, (once fleet carrier technology obtained, become light carriers)

Fleet carriers (converted battlecruisers) cost 3 points and 1 BC (which you already built or bought), combat 0, defense 1, speed 5 or 6, range 4 or 5, air combat 1, naval strike 1-3 (depending on nationality), maintenance 1 (1.5 US and Japan),

Fleet carriers (converted improved battlecruisers) cost 4 points and 1 BC2 (which you already built or bought), combat 0, defense 2, speed 6 or 7, air combat 1, naval strike 1-3 (depending on nationality), maintenance 1 (1.5 for US and Japan)

Light carriers (converted armored cruisers), cost 2 points and 1 armored cruisers (which you already built or bought), combat 0, defense 1, speed 4 or 5, range 4 or 5, air combat 1, naval strike 1, maintenance .5 (.75 US and Japan) (heavy cruisers can also be converted this way, and have a speed of 7, otherwise identical)

Carrier technology
6 points gives you Seaplane Carriers (free for UK, US due to pioneering work)
these ships allow your fleet to have some built in scouting ability. However, they are slow. (seaplane carrier combat 0, protection 0, speed 3, range 3) and are all converted merchant ships. They have no combat value, only increase your ability to find other ships

Seaplane carriers cost 2 points, require 1 year (as are converted merchant ships) and maintenance is .25 points

1 year after getting seaplane carriers and 6 more points gives you improved seaplane carriers technology. Cost is 3 points, require 1 year to convert (and you are converting a liner) and one liner unit will give you 2 seaplane carriers (for 3 points to convert both ships). They have a combat rating of 0, protection of 0, speed of 6, and range of 4. They also have an naval bombing rating of 1.

2 years after getting improved seaplane carriers and 6 more points gives you fleet carrier technology
. You must convert a battle cruiser at a cost of 3 points and 1 year construction time. Gives you a carrier with a combat rating of 0, defense rating of 1, speed of 5 (BC conversion) or 3 (armored cruiser conversion), range of 4 (5 for US and UK and Japan), and air combat rating of 1, naval bombing rating of 1-3. Some BC conversions have a speed of 6 or even 7 incidently. Stats will be provided by referee for you carriers. American and Japanese carriers carry 75-100 aircraft, everyone elses carriers operate 40-60 aircraft for reasons of philisophy (Americans and Japanese willing to carry their planes on deck and accept the disadvantages of paying extra maintenance).

You may choose to instead convert armored cruisers into light carriers, which are cheaper.

Special note: If your navy has had carriers for at least 5 years (had them in 1920), you can build purpose build carriers.

Fleet carriers cost 10 points a year for 3 years, gets you a CV with rating of 1-2-7-5 air rating of 5, or a CV with rating of 1-4-7-5 air rating of 2

Cruisers
Heavy cruisers have 8 inch guns and are designed to kill other cruisers and escorts as well as hunt down merchant shipping. Light cruisers have 6 inch guns and are designed to hunt down merchant shipping and provide command space for destroyer squadron.

Heavy cruiser cost 2 points a year for 2 years, maintenance .10, range 4 (5 for US and UK and Japan), attack 1, defense 1, speed 7, range 4 (German ships have defense 2, range 4, French and Italian designs speed 8, range 4), burns oil

Light cruiser (CL) 1 point a year for 2 years (1 ship) maintenance .10
Light guns, torpedoes, speed and range of 4 (average) – 5 (US, Japan, UK) sea areas, burns oil

Armored and protected cruisers are now treated as heavy and light cruisers for purposes of maintenance, but are slower and have less range and still burn coal. They are effectively obsolete at this point but are still useful for showing the flag, patrol duties and escorting merchant shipping.

You can modernize cruisers just like you can battleships (and should). Cost is 2 points for 1 year in the dockyard, and naval yards can modernize either 2 cruisers or 1 battleship at one time each year.

other warships
tech level 5.5 Submarine flotillas are automatically long range (5 sea zones), and cost 10 points, maintenance .5 (SSK2)
Submarine flotilla (SSK1) 6 points a year for 1 year (10 submarines) maintenance .25 uses oil
Tech level 5.5 destroyer flotillas have a range of 4 sea zones (other destroyers have a range of 2 sea zones), cost is 10 points a year (10 destroyers) maintenance .25
Destroyer flotilla (DD1) 6 points a year for 1 year (10 destroyers) maintenance .25 uses oil
Escort flotilla (CE) 4 points a year for 1 year (10 submarine chasers or corvettes) maintenance .25 uses oil, range is 4 sea zones

patrol flotilla (PY) 3 points a year for 1 year (20 gunboats) maintenance .10, River patrol flotillas are also available at the same price and can operate in large rivers. Useful only for patrolling colonial areas, acts as a garrison unit. 1 unit will act as a garrison unit for all colonies in that sea area (so 1 US gunboat unit in the Caribbean watches all nations in the Caribbean). Gunboats have no combat value against any other warships but can fight each other (briefly). Have a short range, usually 2 sea areas

Minesweeper flotilla (MS) 2 points a year for 1 year (20 minesweepers) maintenance .10 uses oil
Motor torpedo boat flotilla (PT) 1 point a year for 1 year (50 PT boats), maintenance .10 uses oil

Escort groups -- once you have researched or acquired ASW technology, you may convert older destroyers into Escort groups. Essentially, old destroyers lose their torpedo tubes and replace them with depth charge racks.

Destroyers can attack submarines and surface ships, submarines can attack shipping and warships, escort flotillas can only attack submarines, and minesweepers can only be used to clear mines.

Minefields 1 point covers the approaches to one major port, 5 points for a major strait like the Dardenelles or English Channel, and 10 points to construct a mine barrier across the North Sea (as in real life Allied North Sea Mine barrage). Can only be created during wartime and only friendly naval forces and shipping may pass through minefields. Submarines, destroyers and light cruisers can lay minefields (but cannot carry out any other duties that turn). You may however stockpile mines

older or obsolescent or obsolete warships
tech level 4.5 or older destroyers and torpedo boats are considered escort flotillas at
tech level 5 submarines and destroyers cannot be modernized (not enough hull)

Transport groups (represents 85 transport ships or 500,000 tons of shipping) cost is 3 points, maintenance .25 points, range is 4 sea areas a turn. You can get them for free by converting 5 shipping units into 1 transport unit. Can carry 2 corps of troops or 6 divisions or 18 brigades

Liners can carry 2 light infantry divisions or 6 brigades of light infantry or marines.

You can also build light transport units. These cost .5 point, take 1 year to build, .10 points to maintain, range is 4 sea areas a turn, and can carry 1 light division or 3 light infantry or marine brigades. You can also convert a single shipping unit into a light transport for free.

Naval yards can repair and build ships. However, they are expensive to maintain, and cost 1 point a year. To build one costs 24 points. Some nations start off with naval yards (and those will be indicated). Naval Yards can also refuel ships and act as a base. Personnel are accounted for in your naval units already. A naval yard can provide maintenance or repairs for 10 naval units. A naval base can be converted into a naval yard for 12 points and takes one year. A naval yard is required for the construction of naval units.

Naval bases can refuel ships. To build one costs 6 points and requires a major port or suitable anchorage (see list of suitable anchorages). They also are expensive to maintain, and cost .5 points a year. Major port cities can also act as a naval base. Naval bases and naval yards must be located at a sizeable harbor. Bases that you own will be indicated, as will places that would make a good base. Up to 15 naval units can operate from a naval base, naval yard or major port.

Naval units must end their turn at a minor port, major port, naval base or naval yard (generally they go out to sea and return to the nearest base)

useful places for a base that don't have one yet
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11642816&postcount=58

tech 5 naval ratings
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11801195&postcount=2

When you acquire warships from a foreign power, you have to also come up with the crews. Now when you build a unit, the costs are included, but notice that when you bring a unit out of laid up status (mothballs), you have to spend 2 points and it takes 6 months to make it operational.

Part of this is the cost and time required to man the warship or unit of warship and part of it is dockyard time to get it ready for sea.

So far, when the Germans for example have been getting British build DNs and BCs, I have either taken crews away from predreadnoughts and added them to the mothball fleet, or instead of activating a ship out of reserve, have instead used those points and crews to man the new warship instead (and left a BB1 in reserve).

So if you get a ship from a foreign power you must either a) lay up another warship unit or b) spend 2 points and 4 months working up that unit before its combat ready

Special note
The Americans, British and Japanese can refuel at sea, meaning that they can convert 10 shipping units into oilers, and each oiler unit allows 4 warship units to extend their range by 1 sea zone. Everyone else has to research this, and it takes 10 years and 10 points (1 point a year) then they too can refuel at sea.

The British at this tech will get Asdic for free, and everyone else will have to research it. Information on that much later. Asdic first shows up in 1932, unless war comes (will come sooner then, more urgency)

air units costs and rules
Air units 1925
Air units 1925
1925 Fighters (existing units upgraded for cost of maintenance)
Air combat 2, bombing 1, range 3, cost 3, maintenance .10
1925 light bombers
Air combat (1), bombing 2, range 4, cost 4, maintenance .10
1925 medium bombers
air combat (1), bombing 4, strategic bombing 1, range 5, cost 6, maintenance .25
1925 heavy bombers
air combat (2), bombing 1, strategic bombing 3, range 6, cost 8, maintenance .5
1925 Float Planes (maritime patrol)
air combat 1, bombing 1, naval bombing 1, range 5, cost 6, maintenance .10
1925 Flying boats (maritime patrol)
air combat (1), bombing 1, naval bombing 2, strategic bombing 1, range 8, maintenance .5, can only base at ports and naval bases
1925 Naval bombers
air combat (1), bombing 1, naval bombing 1, range 5, cost 3, maintenance .10
1925 Carrier planes can only engage ships in the same sea area and ports and coastal hexes bordering the sea area they are in

(all ranges are for the European WIF map, halved (rounded up) for WIF Asia map)

Zeppelin air combat (1), bombing rating 1, naval attack 0, strategic bombing 1, range 10 hexes, cost 6, maintenance 3, build time 1 year (20 aircraft)
(airline units can be converted into military Zeppelin units)

Heavy Zeppelins air combat (2), bombing rating 1, strategic bombing 2, range 30 hexes, cost 10, maintenance 5, (20 aircraft) can substitute cargo instead, which means it can carry 1 light infantry brigade
(Germany, France only)

Blimp 0-bombing 1-naval 0-strategic bombing 0, range 6 hexes, cost 2, maintenance .5, build time 6 months (20 aircraft)

Nations may purchase air units from nations that build them if they lack an aviation industry of their own.

To acquire an aviation industry costs 100 points (which can be spread out), and referee approval. You must be tech level 5, and not be at war. Nations without an aircraft industry pay double maintenance, nations that are below tech level 5 pay triple maintenance

Russia, Italy, Japan, United States, UK, France, and Germany can build all types
Netherlands can build only light bombers, fighters and flying boats
Poland, Spain, Sweden, Hungary and Rumania can only build light bombers and fighters

Air units at this tech level require 4,000 men and have 75 aircraft, and if you have over 4 air units, you must have 1 air depot for each 5 air units or 10 carrier units that you have. Air depots are essentially the same thing as a naval base and yard combined, and also act as training centers for pilots and development centers for aviation technology, and provide logistical support for air forces. They cost 3 points to build, and require 1 point a year to maintain. Air Depots are brigadel sized units, while wings (air units) are brigade sized units

For now, maintenance automatically upgrades aircraft to latest models

Special Rules:

Guerilla forces - a brigade sized units. They do not hold territory, nor may they capture it, and they cannot be attacked by conventional forces. However, regular military forces can fight them in attrition warfare, and its possible to eventually wear them out. Guerilla forces can be formed into light infantry units, at which point they can take territory, and also can be attacked and destroyed like regular units.

Guerilla forces are created by the referee, and the cost of raising and maintaining them varies, as does their effectiveness and ability to avoid being wiped out. They inflict civilian casualties on the locals, military casualties on opposing forces and create economic damage and disruption.

Police, cavalry, light infantry and garrison units are able to inflict twice normal attrition against guerilla forces.

Research
Tech level 5 projects
naval warfare
Dreadnought warships -- must be tech level 5, have 1 naval yard, and 1 major port to research. cost is free, but takes 3 years.
Battle cruisers -- see above (also includes light and heavy cruisers)
super dreadnoughts (see above)

Long range submarines -- must be tech level 5, and have at least one tech level 5 submarine flotilla, then spend 12 points of research and you can have long range submarine units which have a range of 4 sea areas instead of 2, and cost 8 points per flotilla, maintenance .5

Basic ASW warfare -- allows destroyers and smaller escort ships to defend against submarine attack (invention of hydrophones, depth charges). Cost is 12 points and must be tech level 5

Airships
Rigid Airships (Zeppelins) -- Germany free, France 6 points, all others 12 points, and allows you to build Zeppelins. Each Zeppelin unit is 5 airships, and they have a range of 400 miles and can be used for terror bombing or scouting or used as an airline unit (provides 1 point of income a year, maximum 2 points)
Improved Zeppelins - Germany free, all others must have Zeppelin technology AND spend 12 points (6 points for Brazil and France). You can build an international airline unit for a cost of 6 points (and you can have a domestic airline unit too).

Non Rigid Airships (Blimps) -- 6 points, and allows you to build Blimp units. Each unit is 20 blimps and they can be used for scouting up to a range of 200 miles. They also act as ASW coastal patrol aircraft.

Amphibious Doctrine -- allows you to conduct invasions of defended beaches and build Marine units. Marine units include both the landing craft and the ground unit (see ground units for cost). US, UK must spend 6 points for amphibious doctrine (as they have more experience then everyone else put together), while all other nations must spend 12 points.

carrier rules (see above)

armored warfare
nations can start to research tanks, this will cost 24 points, and take 2 years. At the end of the 2nd year, one free tank brigade is developed. (its effects will be a surprise).

After that, tank brigades can be built. Cost is 3 points, time is 6 months. They function much like seige artillery, and can only move 1 hex a turn. Maintenance and reliability for early tanks was awful, so annual maintenance is 2 points a year.

Additional restrictions:
1. Must be tech level 5
2. Only the US, Germany, France, United Kingdom, and Italy can research tanks, as they are the only nations with a substantive auto industry at this point.
3. Other nations can buy tanks, but their maintenance is doubled (as they have fewer people around to man them, fix them and don't have a parts industry)

beginning 1920, Austria Hungary (Skoda works) and Russia (big tractor industry) can research tanks, and Japan (develops a car industry) can after 1922.

Combined arms warfare
Germany starts off with this for free, other nations must be tech level 5.5, and spend 5 points a year for 5 years. This is required to in order to build armored divisions. Armored divisions require another 20 points of research, and you can convert cavalry or motorized infantry divisions into armored divisions for 2 points or build them from scratch for 10 points. Maintenance is 3 points a year, and combat rating is 4, movement is 6 (3 on Asia map). You must have armored warfare AND combined arms warfare to build armored divisions. Incidently, historically, the French, British and Russians all developed them at the same time as the Germans, but didn't have the combined arms concept down, and used them for less effectively then the Germans did. So what they had were collections of 3 armored brigades instead of a combined arms armored division.

navies of the world 1906
British
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11622350&postcount=14

German, Austrian, French, Dutch, Portuguese
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11641921&postcount=45

Russia
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11642068&postcount=47

Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Spain, Italy, Greece, Ottoman Empire,
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11642356&postcount=51

US, Chile, Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11642554&postcount=52

Japanese and Chinese
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11642777&postcount=57

armies of the world in 1906
British
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11622350&postcount=14

German, French, Belgian, Austrian, Dutch, Portuguese
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11639026&postcount=41

Russia
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11642068&postcount=47

European armies
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11643013&postcount=59

American armies
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11643019&postcount=60

Asian and African armies
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11643065&postcount=61

China
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11643076&postcount=62


some historical units were excluded as they are essentially replacement units, or not really organized and equipped but simple administrative units.

note that German, French, Austrian and British corps have 2 infantry divisions, plus cavalry, rtillery and supply forces.

I gather that the naval bases available will be provided. And those of us with some kind of navy have a naval yard or two.

Taggage for Russia

Tagged! And what about upkeep for mountain brigades, infantry divisions, etc? o_o I only see those as division or corp sized units

Yeah I wanted to comment on that too.

Tagged! And what about upkeep for mountain brigades, infantry divisions, etc? o_o I only see those as division or corp sized units

look closer.. they are listed

and yes, naval bases and yards will be included, but just because you have a navy doesn't mean you have a naval yard

incidently, a dreadnought is three times more powerful then a pre dreadnought

British Army 1906
Home forces:
Regular forces: 3 infantry corps, 1 cavalry corps, 1 HQ, 3 light infantry brigades (Royal Marines), 1 coast defense fortress (Gibraltar),
Territorial forces: 4 reserve infantry corps, 1 cavalry corps
Imperial garrisons: 1 garrison division each Jamaica, Nairobi, Freetown, Lagos, Suez,
1 coast defense artillery brigade each at Suez, Malta

Indian Army
Regular forces: 4 cavalry divisions, 3 infantry corps, garrison divisions at Hong Kong, Aden, Singapore, 6 light infantry brigades, (based on this http://www.orbat.com/site/history/historical/india/army1914units.html)
No reserve forces

British Dominions
Canadian forces:
Regular forces: 1 garrison division (Halifax)
Territorial forces: 1 reserve militia corps
South African forces:
Regular forces: 1 cavalry division
Reserve forces: 2 cavalry divisions
Australia / New Zealand
Regular forces: 1 garrison division
Reserve forces: 1 reserve militia corps, 1 reserve cavalry corps

Royal Navy 1906
Tech level 5 warships
Dreadnoughts
Dreadnought,
Under construction
Bellerophon, (year 1 of 3 paid for, 1909)
http://home.att.net/~wellsbrothers/Battleships/RNBBtable.html

Light cruisers
Sentinel, Skirmisher, Pathfinder, Patrol, Forward, Foresight, Adventure, Attentive, Diamond, Amethyst, Sapphire, Topaz,

2 destroyer flotillas
1 submarine flotilla

tech level 4.5 warships
BBs
Swiftsure, Triumph, , Commonwealth, Dominion, Hibernia, Hindustan, King Edward VII, New Zealand, Albermarle, Cornwallis, Duncan, Exmouth, Montagu, Russell, Formidable, Irresistable, Implacable (1901). Also London, Bulwark, Venerable, Queen, Prince of Wales,
Under construction
Africa, Britannia, Hibernia, Lord Nelson, Agamenon (already paid for) available 1907

Armored cruisers
Defence, Minotaur, Shannon, Achilles, Cochrane, Natal, Warrior, Black Prince, Duke of Edinburgh, Antrim, Argyll, Carnarvon, Devonshire, Hampshire, Roxburgh, Monmouth, Bedford, Berwick, Cornwall, Cumberland, Donegal, Essex, Kent, Lancaster, Suffolk, Drake, Good Hope, King Alfred, Leviathan, Cressy, Aboukir, Sutlej, Hogue, Euryalus, Bacchante

Protected cruisers
Diadem, Amphitrite, Andromeda, Argonaut, Ariadne, Europe, Niobe, Spartiate, Powerful, Terrible, Highflyer, Hermes, Hyacinth, Challenger, Encounter, Arrogant, Furious, Gladiator, Vindictive, Eclipse, Diana, Dido, Doris, Isis, Juno, Minerva, Talbot, Venus, Astraea, Bonaventure, Cambrian, Charybdis, Flora, Forte, Fox, Hermione, Edgar, Hawke, Endymion, Royal Arthur, Gibraltar, Grafton, St George, Theseus, Crescent

4 destroyer flotillas,
1 coast defense submarine flotilla

Tech level 4 warships
BB2
Available
Canopus, Albion, Glory, Goliath, Ocean, Vengance, Majestic, Illustrious, Mars, Jupiter, Hannibal, Caesar, Magnificent, Prince George, Victorious, Hood, Royal Sovereign, Empress of India, Repulse, Ramilles, Resolution, Revenge, Royal Oak, Trafalgar, Nile
1 torpedo boat flotilla
5 gunboat flotillas

Plus 4 transport units

Naval Yards:
Portsmouth, Plymouth, Liverpool, London, Tyne, Bombay, Alexandria,
Naval bases:
Gibraltar, Malta, Suez, Aden, Colombo, Capetown, Jamaica, Hong Kong, Sydney, Vancouver, Halifax,

Hmm... GB, that list is quite different from the one LR gave me...

look closer.. they are listed

and yes, naval bases and yards will be included, but just because you have a navy doesn't mean you have a naval yard

incidently, a dreadnought is three times more powerful then a pre dreadnought

Um...there's NO infantry division listed, nor is there an artillery division. Or rules for substandard units.

Yeah only light infantry is listed.

Also I think that some countries aren't the norm when it comes to tech. Spain as an example. In relation to tech lvl 4, I can only have single shot breech loaders. However, a Mauser plant was built in Spain in 1901 or 1902 that supplied the Spanish army with Mausers SPanish Model 1893. Just a note.

Here's Chile's military from LR's page.

Regulars:

1 HQ
2 Infantry Divisions
1 Artillery Division
1 Marine Brigade
3 Alpine Brigades

Reserves:

1 HQ
4 Infantry Divisions
6 Substandard Infantry Divisions
2 Artillery Divisions

Navy:

1 Battleship
7 Cruisers

----------------------------------

So exactly how much maintainence do all of these cost in total? How will maintainence look for Chile under these new military rules?

Belgian military according to LR

Military Service Troops
Total Frontline Strength: 105,000
Total Reserve Strength: 640,000
Organisation

Regulars:

HQ
3 Infantry Divisions
1 Cavalry Division
1 Artillery Division
1 Marine Brigade

Reserves:
HQ
6 Infantry Divisions
10 Substandard Infantry Divisions
10 Militia Divisions
3 Substandard Cavalry Divisions
3 Artillery Divisions

Colonial Army
Force Publique (King Leopold’s brutal paramilitary forces and slave drivers, Belgian, mercenary Officers, native soldiery)
Military Service Troops
Total Frontline Strength: 20,000
Organisation
Regulars:
1 Substandard Light Infantry Division (Reflects poor motivation, leadership, training and actual combat experience in most units)

[tag]

tag

Parthini;11622448']Hmm... GB, that list is quite different from the one LR gave me...

yes it is... see rules for ground and naval units. The artillery for example and the divisions are formed into corps because they were in fact, part of corps.

Some of the warships were excluded because they were stricken or about to be by the time 1906 rolled around. Some of the armored cruisers aren't really armored, but glorified protected cruisers. The Australians and Canadians have excellent infantry, but at this time haven't been properly equipped and will need to be. You can upgrade units from militia to infantry for example.

You also get to organize the RN into fleets, and remember, you have to cover the North Sea, Caribbean, North Atlantic, Mediterranean, West Africa, East Africa, Indian Ocean, Persian Gulf, East Asia and Pacific. I would suggest looking at this link
http://www.geocities.com/scs028a/rn1906.html

which would seem absolutely perfect

Here's Chile's military from LR's page.

Regulars:

1 HQ
2 Infantry Divisions
1 Artillery Division
1 Marine Brigade
3 Alpine Brigades

Reserves:

1 HQ
4 Infantry Divisions
6 Substandard Infantry Divisions
2 Artillery Divisions

Navy:

1 Battleship
7 Cruisers

----------------------------------

So exactly how much maintainence do all of these cost in total? How will maintainence look for Chile under these new military rules?

Lesser Ribenia's list is actual units, not what they are in game terms

and HQ units are going to be damned rare

Oh. So I guess the military part of the Morrocan Crisis will have to wait til we have our militaries. Ok.

its important to remember this.. in the early part of the 20th Century armies were organized into corps as the basic unit of manuever, not divisions. So European Armies (which include the Japanese at this point) will be organized into corps, with occasional light infantry, cavalry and mountain units. The British are a bit different, having an army for fighting on the continent, and a much bigger part organized for colonial policing. The Armies of the Americas, including the American and Canadian Armies, are organized for colonial policing as well (as the Philippine Insurrection wasn't all that much different from the Indian Wars for example and Canada hasn't fought a war since the War of 1812). The Latin American armies are more for policing their own citizens instead of fighting aggresive wars of conquest, as not much of that has happened in a generation either.

So infantry will be either light infantry (little artillery and what is available is light) or regular infantry organized into either corps or garrison units.

Cavalry for the colonial powers will be similar, although the French and British both keep corps of Cavalry around for fighting in Europe.

Headquarters are extremely rare, and only nations that actually have the General Staff System will be allowed to have headquarters units. Which at this point is pretty rare as well. The US Army is just getting it, the British, Russians, and Japanese realized they needed it recently (wartime experience) and the Germans and French of course already have it. No one else does.

So headquarters units are rare at this point, and the nations that are allowed them have them already. Everyone else can get a general staff system as a side benefit of buying a headquarters unit.

Okie. Sooo are the new armies going to be posted? Or do we make the changes ourselves?

Okie. Sooo are the new armies going to be posted? Or do we make the changes ourselves?

posting the big ones first, then the smaller armies and navies.. more to come

Okay.

Take note that Chile does have a proud military tradition and is using Prussian type of military training, tactics, policies, etc. so Chile should have some "experience" imported from Europe anyway.

And the 2 HQ units I have could be merged into 1 General Staff HQ unit?

Okay.

Take note that Chile does have a proud military tradition and is using Prussian type of military training, tactics, policies, etc. so Chile should have some "experience" imported from Europe anyway.

And the 2 HQ units I have could be merged into 1 General Staff HQ unit?

unless you can find me a reference somewhere indicating Chile had a General Staff in 1906, no Chile doesn't get an HQ unit

unless you can find me a reference somewhere indicating Chile had a General Staff in 1906, no Chile doesn't get an HQ unit



Army

For military purposes the republic is divided into five districts, the northern desert provinces forming the first, the central provinces as far south as the Bio-Bio the second and third, and the southern provinces and territory the fourth and fifth. aarge sums of money have been expended in arms, equipment, guns and fortifications. The army is organized on the German model[and has been trained by European officers who have been employed both for the school and regiment. Though the president and minister of war are the nominal heads of the army, its immediate direction is concentrated in a general staff comprising six service departments, at the head of which is a chief of staff. After the triumph of the revolutionists in the civil war of 1891, the army was reorganized under the direction of Colonel Emil Korner, an accomplished German officer, who subsequently served as chief of the general staff. In 1904 the permanent force consisted of 12 battalions of infantry, 6 regiments of cavalry, 4 regiments of mountain artillery, 1 regiment of horse artillery, 2 regiments of coast artillery, and 5 companies of engineers - aggregating 915 officers and 4757 men. To this nucleus were added 6160 recruits, the contingent for that year of young men twenty-one years of age compelled to serve with the colours. Under the law of the 5th of September 1900, military service is obligatory for all citizens between eighteen and forty-five years, all young men of twenty-one years being required to serve a certain period with the regular force. After this period they are transferred to the 1st reserve for 9 years, and then to the 2nd reserve. The military rifle adopted for all three branches of the service is the Mauser, 1895 model, of 7 mm. calibre, and the batteries are provided with Krupp guns of 7 and 7.5 cm. calibre. Military instruction is given in a wellorganized military school at Santiago, a war academy and a school of military engineering.

Navy

The Chilean navy is essentially British in organization and methods, and all its best fighting ships were built in British yards. In 1906 the effective fighting force consisted of 1 battleship, 2 belted cruisers, 4 protected cruisers, 3 torpedo gunboats, 6 destroyers and 8 modern torpedo boats. In addition to these there are several inferior armed vessels of various kinds which bring the total up to 40, not including transports and other auxiliaries. The administration of the navy, under the president and minister of war and marine, is confided to a general naval staff, called the " Direccion jeneral de la Armada," with headquarters at Valparaiso. Its duties also include the military protection of the ports, the hydrographic survey of the coast, and the lighthouse service. The personnel comprises about 465 officers, including those of the staff, and 4000 petty officers and men. There is a military port at Talcahuano, in Concepcion Bay, strongly fortified, and provided with arsenal and repair shops, a large dry dock and a patent slip. The naval school, which occupies one of the noteworthy edifices of Valparaiso, is attended by 90 cadets and is noted for the thoroughness of its instruction.

Note the bold emphasis on General Staff.

This excerpt can be found here.

http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Chile

Note the bold emphasis on General Staff.

This excerpt can be found here.

http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Chile

thats all well and good but you basically have a 2 light infantry brigades and 1 cavalry division (15000 men) according to that article. As an HQ is a corps sized unit of 75,000, what are you going to do for the rest of your army if you have an HQ? You have a population of only about 2.3 million and can only have a standing military of 46000 if a volunteer force (slightly larger for a conscript force), then how exactly are you going to field an HQ?

Yeah, remember at this stage in history most armies, even those in Europe, have internal communications systems built around horse and buggy power, a fully functioning HQ takes a lot of human and animal resources...not to mention paper.

Soo Morrocan Crisis on hold for now. Okie.

thats all well and good but you basically have a 2 light infantry brigades and 1 cavalry division (15000 men) according to that article. As an HQ is a corps sized unit of 75,000, what are you going to do for the rest of your army if you have an HQ? You have a population of only about 2.3 million and can only have a standing military of 46000 if a volunteer force (slightly larger for a conscript force), then how exactly are you going to field an HQ?

Wait- 2.3 million population?

I thought Chile's population was supposedly 3.4 million?

Wait- 2.3 million population?

I thought Chile's population was supposedly 3.4 million?

probably is, at which case the numbers go up some, but the point remains you cant field an HQ (a 75,000 man unit)

tag

tag

TAG

Do the Dutch have Naval Yards/Bases at the start? In RL they've got the Naval Base at Den helder and of course Rotterdam.

Yokosuka and Yokohoma for the Japanese.

Will my troops get some bonus for having recently fought?

Do the Dutch have Naval Yards/Bases at the start?

Same question. I'm assuming I'd at least have a naval base at Buenos Aires, and maybe one at Rio Gallegos or Punta Colorada. I doubt I'd have a naval yard, since I don't have the technological capability to build my own warships.

Imperial German Army (conscript force)
Regular Army
1 Infantry corps (Guards), 19 Infantry corps, 3 cavalry corps, 4 fortress divisions(Heligoland, Metz, Strasbourg, Konigsberg), 3 Mountain Divisions, 1 Light infantry brigade (Marines), 2 HQ units
Reserve Army
21 Infantry corps, 3 cavalry corps, 4 HQ units, 18 reserve infantry corps, 4 fortress divisions, 2 mountain divisions, (the Landsturm are not in organized units nor equipped)
Colonial Army
East Africa
3 garrison units, 6 light infantry brigades
plus 1 garrison unit each German Togoland, German Southwest Africa, German Cameroon, Tsingtao, no significant forces in German Pacific territories

French Army (conscript force)
Regular Army (may not serve outside of France in peacetime)
4 Infantry corps, 2 Cavalry Corps, 1 HQ, 2 Mountain Divisions, 1 fortress division (Verdun), 1 light infantry brigade (marine light infantry)
Reserve Army
2 HQ, 20 Infantry corps, 12 reserve infantry corps, 4 cavalry corps
Colonial Army (can only be stationed in France during wartime)
1 HQ unit, 3 infantry corps (Algeria)
3 reserve infantry corps (Algeria)
4 cavalry corps (Algeria)
3 garrison units (French Indochina)
1 garrison unit (French Equatorial Africa)
1 garrison unit (Madagascar)
1 cavalry corps (French Northwest Africa)
1 garrison unit (New Caledonia)
1 garrison unit (Tahiti)
Legion Estranger (French Foreign Legion)(cannot be in France except during wartime)
2 Light infantry brigades (Algeria)
1 Light Infantry brigade (French Indochina)
1 Light infantry brigade (Djibouti)

special note: although the French have a lot of troops called Marines, these are actually garrison troops for colonial service

Belgian Army (volunteer force)
1 garrison unit, 1 fortress (Leige), 1 infantry corps, 1 reserve infantry corps
colonial forces
1 garrison unit (Belgian Congo)

Dutch Army (volunteer force)
1 garrison unit, 1 light infantry brigade (Royal marines), 1 reserve infantry corps, (home) plus 1 garrison unit (Dutch East Indies)

Portuguese Army (volunteer force)
1 garrison unit (home), 1 garrison unit each (Mozambique, Angola)

Austrian Hungarian Army (conscript force)
Regular Forces
4 infantry corps, 1 cavalry corps, 1 HQ
reserve forces
2 infantry corps, 8 reserve infantry corps, 2 cavalry corps, 1 HQ, 3 fortress divisions (Lemburg, Trieste, Premszyl)

yay for GB converting military forces!

EDIT- doesn't A-H has a fortress in Premszyl?

well how about that, the Belgian army is bigger than the Dutch army, "Eat my Fog of war!"

yay for GB converting military forces!

EDIT- doesn't A-H has a fortress in Premszyl?

yes, I will add that in

Imperial German Navy
Tech level 5 warships
CL (light cruisers)
Bremen, Hamburg, Berlin, Lubeck, Munchen, Konigsburg, Stuttgart

Tech level 4.5 warships
BB1
Deutschland, Hannover, Pommern, Schesin, Schleswig-Holstein, Braunschweig, Elsass, Hessen, Preussen, Lothringen, Wittelsbach, Wettin, Zahringen, Schwaben, Mecklenberg, Kaiser Friedrich III, Kaiser Wilhelm II, Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse, Kaiser Barbarossa,

CA (armored cruisers)
Roon, Prinz Adalbert, Friedrich Karl, Prinz Heinrich, Furst Bismarck

CP (protected cruisers)
Gazelle, Niobe, Nymphe, Thetis, Ariadne, Amazone, Medusa, Frauenlob, Arcona, Endine
Victoria Louise, Hertha, Freya, Vineta, Hansa, Bussard, Falke, Seeadler, Condor, Cormoran, Geier, Hela, Gefion, Irene, Prinzess Wilhelm, Kaserin Augusta

Torpedo boats
3 Torpedo boat flotillas

1 coastal defense submarine (not a flotilla, so free as an experimental unit)

Tech level 4 warships
BB2
Hilderbrand, Hagen, Odin, Agir, Siegfried, Beowulf, Frithjof, Heimdall,

1 gunboat flotilla (for Pacific)

Older ships have been scrapped or converted into receiving ships or targets

Naval Yard: Kiel
Naval Bases: Wilhemshaven, Bremerhaven, Stettin, Lubuck, Tsingtao
Other major ports: Hamburg, Danzig

French Navy
Tech level 5 warships
1 destroyer flotilla

Tech level 4.5 warships
BB1
Democratie, Justice, Libertie, Verite, Republique, Patrie, Suffren, Jena, Charlemagne, St Louis, Gaulois, Bouvet, Massena, Charles Martel, Carnot, Jaureguiberry,
CA
Ernest Renan, Jules Michelet, Gloire, Amiral Aube, Conde, Marseilaise, Sully,
Dupleix, Desaix, Kleber, Gueydon, Dupetit-Thouars, Montcalm, Jeane d'Arc, Pothuau,
Amiral Charner, Bruix, Chanzy, Latouche Treville,

CP
Jurien de la Graviere, D'Estrees, Infernet, Chateaurenault, Guichen, D'Entrecasteaux,
D'Assas, Cassard, Du Chayla, Catinat, Protet, Pascal, Descartes, Bugead, Chasseloup-Laubat, Friant, Alger, Isly, Jean Bart, Gallilee, Lavosier, Linois, Suchet, Davout

1 destroyer flotilla

1 torpedo boat flotilla
2 coast defense submarine flotillas

2 gunboat flotillas (1 for Africa, 1 for Pacific)

Naval yards: Brest, Toulon, St Nazaire,
Naval Bases: Cherbourg, Dunkirk, Oran, Dakar, Saigon, Tahiti
Other major ports: Marseilles, Bordeaux,

Austrian Navy
Tech level 5 warships
None
Tech level 4.5 warships
BB1
Erzherzog Karl, Erzherzog Friedrich, Erzherzog Ferdinand Max, Wien, Monarch, Budapest
CA
Sankt Georg, Kaiser Karl IV, KK Maria Teresa
CP
KF Joseph I, K Elizabeth, Zenta, Aspern, Szigetvar

Naval yard: Pola
Naval bases: Split, Zara
Other major port: Trieste

Royal Netherlands Navy
Tech level 5 warships
None
Tech level 4.5 warships
CP
Holland, Zeeland, Friesland, Nood Brabant, Utrecht
Tech level 4 warships
CP (glorified gunboats)
Koningin Emma Der Nederlanden, De Ruyter, Van Speyk, Johan Willem Frisco

Naval yard: Rotterdam
Naval base: Batavia, Aruba,

Royal Portuguese Navy
Tech level 4.5 warships
CA
Rainha Dona Amelia
CP
Adamastor, Sao Gariel, Candido Reis

Naval bases: Lisbon, Loanda,
No naval yard (repairs etc usually handled in England)

note: No one starts the game with Marine units You may have units that are called marines, but at this point they are simply naval light infantry that can make unopposed landings.

You will need to develop amphibious doctrine to make opposed landings (tech level 5, and will cost some points)

research projects will be available once I finish the various military forces.

Imperial Russia

Army
Regular forces:
1 infantry corps (guards), 11 infantry corps, 5 cavalry corps, 2 mountain divisions, 2 light infantry divisions, 2 HQs, 2 fortresses (Sevastapol, Vladivostok)
Reserve forces
2 HQs, 30 reserve infantry corps, 20 reserve militia corps, 4 cavalry corps, 16 reserve militia cavalry corps,

Navy (no ships in Pacific as of end of 1905)
Tech level 4.5 ships
Baltic Sea fleet
CA Gromoboi, Rossia, CP Pallada, Diana, Aurora, 1 destroyer flotilla, 1 torpedo boat flotilla

Black Sea fleet
BB1
Slava, Pantelimon (ex Potemkin), Tsessarevitch
CP
Jemtchug, Pamiat Merkura, Oleg, Kagul, Askold
1 destroyer flotilla, 1 torpedo boat flotilla

naval yards:
Sevastapol, Kronstadt (St Petersburg),
Naval bases:
Vladivostok, Riga, Odessa, Batumi,

all other ships lost in combat or paid off and scrapped as useless post war

Russia has 4 coast defense submarines but not enough for a unit yet

Russia suffered heavy losses (4 corps and 1 HQ during the recent war, and also lost most of its navy

Several german ships are repeated. Not sure if thats to reconcile numbers or just from copy-paste errors.

Several german ships are repeated. Not sure if thats to reconcile numbers or just from copy-paste errors.

I wanted to give the RN more German ships to sink??

lol

fixed, it was copy paste errors

So Germany, Britain, and Russia are now done. Alrighty.

Royal Norwegian Navy
Tech level 4.5
Coast defense BB1
Norge, Eidsvold
CP
Tordenskjold, Harald Haarfagre
Plus 1 torpedo boat flotilla
Naval base: Oslo (repair work at either British or German ports)

Royal Danish Navy
Tech level 4
Coast defense BB2
Tordenskjold
CP
Heimdal, Gejser, Hekla, Valkyrien
No naval bases or yards, major port: Copenhagen (repair work done in England or Germany)

Royal Swedish Navy
Tech level 4.5
Coast defense BB1
Dristigheten, Oscar II,
coast defense CA
Äran, Manligheten, Tapperheten, Vasa, Oden, Thor, Niord, Svea, Göta, Thule
Naval Yard; Copenhagen
Naval base: Karlskrone

Spanish Navy
Tech level 4.5
CA
Reina Regente, Princesa de Asturias, Cataluna, Emperador Carlos V,
CP
Estramadura, Rio de la Plata
1 torpedo boat flotilla
tech level 4
BB2
Pelayo
CP
Alfonso XII, Reina Mercedes, Infanta Isabel
Naval Yard; Cadiz
Naval bases: Bilboa, Cartegena, Palma

The Spanish Navy suffered severe losses during Spanish American War but has replaced some of those losses

Italian Navy (Regia Marine)
Tech level 4.5
BB1
Napoli, Regina Elena, Roma, Vittorio Emanuele, Regina Margherita, Benedetto Brin
Ammiraglio di Saint Bon, Emanuele Filiberto
CA
Giusuppe Garibaldi, Varese, Francsco Ferruccio, Vettor Pisani, Carlo Alberto, Marco Polo
CP
Calabria, Umbria, Lombardia, Etruria, Liguria, Elba, Puglia
1 destroyer flotilla
2 submarines (but not enough for a flotilla)
tech level 4
BB2
Re Umberto, Sicilia, Sardegnia, Andrea Doria, Ruggerio di Lauria, Francesco Morosini
Italia, Duilio, Dandolo

Naval yards: Taranto, Naples
Naval bases: Syracuse, La Spezia

Royal Hellenic Navy
Tech level 4.5
1 torpedo boat flotilla
tech level 4
CP (glorified gunboats)
Nauarchos Miaoulis, Hellas
naval base: Pireaus

Ottoman Navy
Tech level 4.5
CP Hamidieh
Tech level 4
BB2 Fethi Bulend
Naval base: Istanbul

American Navies

US Navy
Tech level 5 warships
Dreadnoughts
Under construction South Carolina (year 2 of 3 paid for), Michigan (year 1 of 3 paid for)
Tech level 4.5 warships
BB1
Mississippi, Idaho, Vermont, Kansas, Minnisota, New Hampshire, Connecticut, Louisiana, Virginia, Nebraska, Georgia, New Jersey, Rhode Island, Maine, Missouri, Ohio, Illinois, Alabama, Wisconsin, Kearsarge, Kentucky, Iowa, Indiana, Oregon, Massachusetts
CA
Montana, North Carolina, Washington, Tennessee,
Pennsylvania, West Virginia, California, Colorado, Maryland, South Dakota, Brooklyn, New York,
CP
St Louis, Milwaukee, Charleston, Albany, New Orleans, Columbia, Minneapolis, Olympia, Cincinnati, Raleigh
1 destroyer flotilla
2 torpedo boat flotillas
1 coast defense submarine flotilla

Tech level 4
BB2
Texas
CP
San Francisco, Baltimore, Chicago, Boston, Atlanta, Chattanooga, Cleveland, Denver, Des Moines, Galveston, Tacoma, Detroit, Montgomery, Marblehead, Yosemite
2 gunboat flotillas (1 China / Philippines Station, 1 Caribbean station)
3 gunboat flotillas (US Coast Guard Atlantic, Gulf of Mexico and Pacific coasts)
2 transport units (1 each coast)

Naval Yards:
Philadelphia, Portsmouth, Norfolk, Mare Island (San Francisco), Bremerton (Seattle)
Naval Bases:
Boston, Brooklyn, Charleston, Key West, Pensacola, Guantanimo Bay, Roosevelt Roads (Puerto Rico), Colon (Panama), Panama City (Panama), San Diego, Pearl Harbor, Cavite (Philippines),

Chile
Tech level 4.5
BB1 Capitan Prat
CP Chacabuco, O’Higgins, Ministro Zenteno, Esmeralda, Blanco Encalada, Presidente Errazuriz, Presidente Pinto

Naval base: Santiago
No repair facilities (uses British or American)

Argentina
Tech level 4.5
CP Patagonia, Veinticinco De Mayo, Nueve De Julio, Buenos Aries, General Garibaldi, General San Martin, General Belgrano, General Pueyrredon
1 torpedo boat flotilla
naval base: Bahia Blanca
other major port: Buenes Aires
no repair facilities (use US or British)

Brazil
Tech level 4.5
CP Almirante Tamandare, Benjamin Constant, Almirante Barrozo
Tech level 4
1 gunboat flotilla

Naval base: Rio De Janeiro
Other major ports: Recife

Uruguay
1 tech level 4 CP Montevideo,
no naval base, other major port: Montevideo

Would the Lines of Torres Vedras outside of Lisbon count as a fortress?
Also can Macau be used as a Naval base?

Do major ports require maintenance too? It says Naval Yards handle maintenance for ship, so do we pay maintenance for the ships as well as the Naval Yard, or just the Naval Yard?

Would the Lines of Torres Vedras outside of Lisbon count as a fortress?
Also can Macau be used as a Naval base?


to obsolete and too small

Do major ports require maintenance too? It says Naval Yards handle maintenance for ship, so do we pay maintenance for the ships as well as the Naval Yard, or just the Naval Yard?

major ports are free, but you pay for bases and naval yards as well as warships

the people that man them are included in the 5,000 men per naval unit manning requirements

Asian navies

Imperial Japanese Navy

Tech level 4.5 warships
BB1
Shikishima, Asahi, Mikasa, Fuji
Under construction (paid for, available 1907)
Settsu, Kawachi, Aki, Satsuma, Kashima, Katori,
Requiring refit (repairs basically as captured Russian BB1s from last war)
Sagami, Hizen, Iwami, Mishima
CA
Idzumo, Iwate, Asama, Toikiwa, Yakumo, Azuma, Kasuga, Nisshin
CP
Otawa, Tsushima, Niitaka, Chitose, Kasagi, Akitsushima, Suma, Akashi, Matsushima, Hashidate, Itsukushima, Chiyoda
3 destroyer flotillas
3 torpedo boat flotillas

Naval Yards
Kure, Yokosuka, Kobe, Nagasaki,
Naval bases
Hiroshima, Yokohoma, Pusan (Korea), Tainan (Formosa), Port Arthur (Manchuria)

Must read page for Japanese, British, French, German and American players
http://www.combinedfleet.com/kaigun.htm

especially this part
http://www.combinedfleet.com/baddest.htm


Imperial Chinese Navy
Tech level 4.5 warships
CP Hai Chi, Hai Yung, Hai Chou, Hai Chien, Fu An
1 torpedo boat flotilla
tech level 4 warships
CP Nan Thin, Nan Shuin

No naval yards or bases,
Other major ports: Shanghai, Tientsin,

world class harbors that would make a good place for a naval yard or base

Pacific Ocean
German owned --Truk atoll, Ulithi atoll, Rabaul,
US owned - Subic Bay, Pearl Harbor (now just a base), Guam, Midway, Dutch Harbor, Pago Pago
British owned -- Sydney, Perth, Brisbane, Singapore, Fiji Islands
French owned -- Cam Ranh Bay,
Japanese owned - Kurile Islands,

Africa / Indian Ocean
British owned - Diego Garcia,
German owned -- Walvis Bay
French owned -- Diego Suarez

European Armies
Swedish forces (conscript force)
Sweden can fully mobilize very quickly but by law its army cannot be used outside of the country except for special circumstances
4 light infantry brigades (ski troops), 4 infantry corps, 1 fortress division (Stockholm)

Swiss forces (conscript force)
Same as for Sweden
Can mobilize 4 mountain divisions, 4 fortress divisions (Zurich, Bern)

Spain (conscript force)
Regular forces:
1 mountain division, 2 infantry corps, 2 cavalry divisions, 1 light infantry brigade (marines), 1 light infantry brigade (guards)
Reserve forces:
8 infantry corps, 4 cavalry divisions

Ottoman Empire (conscript force)
Regular forces:
Garrison units at Mecca, Medina, Baghdad, Jerusalem, Tirane, Skopje
Coast Defense fortress units Gallipoli, Scutari
Infantry corps at Istanbul,
Cavalry divisions at Damascus, Mosul, Amman
Reserve forces:
4 reserve infantry corps, 4 militia infantry corps, 2 garrison units (Adrianople, Istanbul)
4 militia cavalry corps

Norwegian Army conscript force
1 coast defense fortress unit (Oslo), 3 reserve light infantry brigades

Italian Army conscript force
Regular Forces
4 infantry corps, 2 cavalry divisions, 2 mountain divisions, 1 light infantry brigade (marines), 1 garrison unit (Italian East Africa),
Reserve forces
4 infantry corps, 10 reserve infantry corps, 6 militia infantry corps, 2 garrison units (Rome, Naples), 4 cavalry divisions,

Serbia conscript force
Regular forces
4 mountain divisions
Reserve forces
3 infantry corps

Bulgaria conscript force
Regular forces
4 mountain divisions, 1 cavalry division
reserve forces
12 mountain divisions, 1 cavalry division

Rumania conscript force
Regular forces
2 infantry corps, 3 cavalry divisions, 3 mountain divisions
reserve forces
6 reserve infantry corps

Greece conscript force
Regular forces
3 infantry corps, 2 mountain divisions
reserve forces
5 reserve infantry corps

Danish Army conscript force
Regular forces
1 garrison unit
reserve forces
2 infantry corps

Montenegro conscript force
1 militia corps

American Armies

US Army volunteer force
Regular Army
Garrison units in Manila, Oahu, Panama
2 Cavalry divisions (Texas and New Mexico / Arizona)
coast defense units Norfolk, New York, San Francisco, New Orleans
2 light infantry divisions (Kansas, Colorado)
National Guard
2 militia cavalry divisions, 10 militia infantry corps, 6 coast defense units (Houston, Mobile, Boston, Philadelphia, Los Angeles, Seattle)
Marine Corps
2 light infantry brigades (1 California, 1 Virginia)

special note: The Marine Corps can be sent anywhere by the US President for fairly lengthly deployments, but only Congress can give permission for the President to use the Army outside of US territory at this time in history.

Mexico conscript force
Regulars
3 garrison units (Mexico City, Tampico, Vera Cruz), 3 cavalry divisions (Chihuahua, Monterrey, Leon)
Reserves
20 militia infantry divisions, 3 militia cavalry divisions

Chile conscript force
Regulars
1 mountain division, 1 infantry corps
Reserves
5 reserve militia infantry corps

Argentina conscript force
Regular forces
3 garrison units (Buenes Aires, Cordoba, Parana), 1 mountain division, 1 cavalry division
1 light infantry brigade (marines),
reserve forces
3 militia infantry corps, 1 cavalry division, 1 mountain division

Brazil conscript force
Regular forces
4 garrison units (Rio De Janeiro, Belen, Recife, Manus), 3 light infantry brigades (marines), 1 river gunboat flotilla,
reserve forces
10 militia infantry corps

Uruguay conscript force
Includes mobilized strength
1 garrison unit, 1 reserve infantry corps

all other American armies can field a garrison unit at best except the Canadians

Japanese Army
regulars
4 infantry corps, 1 cavalry division, 1 light infantry division (Guards)
reserve
15 reserve infantry corps

Japanese Navy
1 light infantry brigade (Special Naval Landing Force)

Siamese Army
3 garrison units + 2 militia infantry corps

Persia
1 cavalry corps

Arabia
1 militia cavalry corps (tribal units)

Ethiopia
regulars: 1 light infantry division (Imperial Guard)
reserves: 4 light infantry divisions (regional forces)
special note: Ethiopia is the only nation to successfully repel an attempt by a European nation to make it a colony (Adawa, 1885, a decisive Italian defeat)

China (special case)
Chinese New Provincial Armies
The Chinese army is organised around each province raising it’s own regular troops and militias. The largest and best trained (they trained in the European style) of the regulars was the Beiyang Army, the same province controlled the navy as well. The organisation must remain in the same style as this as long as the present administration remains in power (makes it easier for mods to work out opposing troops in rebellions and such).
Anhui Army
60,000 men
3 garrison units,
Fujian Army
40,000 men
2 garrison units
Gansu Army
20,000 men
1 garrison unit
Guangdong Army
80,000 men
4 garrison units
Guangxi Army
45,000 men
1 garrison unit, 1 light infantry division
Guizhou Army
45,000 men
2 garrison units
1 Alpine Brigade
Henan Army
60,000
2 garrison units, 1 cavalry division
Beiyang (Hebei province) Army
100,000 men
3 garrison units, 2 cavalry divisions
Hunan Army
80,000 men
1 light infantry division, 2 garrison units, 1 cavalry division
Jiangsu Army
60,000 men
3 garrison units
Jiangxi Army
60,000 men
3 garrison units
Liaoning
60,000 men
1 light infantry division, 2 garrison units
Shaanxi Army
40,000 men
2 garrison units
Shandong Army
60,000 men
3 garrison units
Shanxi Army
40,000 men
2 garrison units
Sichuan Army
70,000 men
3 garrison units, 1 cavalry division
Yunnan Army
60,000 men
1 light infantry division, 1 cavalry division, 1 garrison unit
Zhejiang Army
60,000 men
3 garrison units

Costs of Units


militia divisions cost 1, maintenance .25


militia brigades cost .25, maintenance .10



Upgrading units
spend the difference in cost and allow for 6 months and you can upgrade a unit from brigade to division, or division to corps, or improve a brigade, division or corps sized unit in quality from militia or reserve to regular, or convert it from one type of unit (such as garrison etc) to another (such as infantry)


militia divisions and brigades added, along with rules for upgrading units

Thanks. Now all set for stuff. Though only thing left is how long Spain has been in tech lvl 4.

Research
Tech level 5 projects
Dreadnought warships -- USA, UK, Japan free, all others 12 points and must be tech level 5
Battle cruisers -- UK free, all others 6 points and must be tech level 5

Long range submarines -- must be tech level 5, and have at least one tech level 5 submarine flotilla, then spend 12 points of research and you can have long range submarine units which have a range of 4 sea areas instead of 2, and cost 8 points per flotilla, maintenance .5

Basic ASW warfare -- allows destroyers and smaller escort ships to defend against submarine attack (invention of hydrophones, depth charges). Cost is 12 points, and must be at war with an enemy that has submarines.

Rigid Airships (Zeppelins) -- Germany free, France 6 points, all others 12 points, and allows you to build Zeppelins. Each Zeppelin unit is 5 airships, and they have a range of 400 miles and can be used for terror bombing or scouting or used as an airline unit (provides 1 point of income a year, maximum 2 points)

Non Rigid Airships (Blimps) -- 6 points, and allows you to build Blimp units. Each unit is 20 blimps and they can be used for scouting up to a range of 200 miles.

Amphibious Doctrine -- allows you to conduct invasions of defended beaches and build Marine units. Marine units include both the landing craft and the ground unit (see ground units for cost). US, UK must spend 6 points for amphibious doctrine (as they have more experience then everyone else put together), while all other nations must spend 12 points.


some things to buy

Thanks. Now all set for stuff. Though only thing left is how long Spain has been in tech lvl 4.


10 years

all pc armies and navies completed... additional NPC forces will be added as needed

also notice transports now cost .25 for maintenance (overlooked that one), and some air units are starting to show up

Cool, so that means I can jump to 4.5 tech lvl once I get my next Production center. Which is 1907. So I can be 4.5 in 1907. Cool.

My river gunboat flotilla listed under my army is the same as the Tech Level 4 Gunboat Flotilla listed in my navy, correct? If so, does it operate the same as a normal Gunboat flotilla in wars or is it freshwater only?

some things to buy

can we develop ASW tactics if another nation went to war and acquired the tech?

My river gunboat flotilla listed under my army is the same as the Tech Level 4 Gunboat Flotilla listed in my navy, correct? If so, does it operate the same as a normal Gunboat flotilla in wars or is it freshwater only?

freshwater only

can we develop ASW tactics if another nation went to war and acquired the tech?

depends on situation, and technology can be shared amongst allies of the same tech level

What transports do we have? I don't see any listed with the navies, so do we have to buy them?

a

Royal Hellenic Navy
Tech level 4.5
1 torpedo boat flotilla
tech level 4
CP (glorified gunboats)
Nauarchos Miaoulis, Hellas
naval base: Pireaus


I've got a bit more than that!
Here's the data I have on the Greek navy 1906:

Hellenic Navy (Greek)

Battleships (3 total)

Hydra (1891)
Spetzal (1892)
Psara (1893)

Cruisers (2 total)

Nauarchos Miaoulis (1879)

Hellas (1861)

Destroyers (4 total)

Niki, Doxa, Thyella, Nafkratousa (1906)

(Aspis, Velos, Lonhi, Sfendoni. paid for and available 1907)

Torpedo Boats (25 total)

Chios, Cyprus, Kos, Mytelene, Rhodes, Samos, Khalithia, Pherinika, Persephone, Terpsichore, Terpsithea, V11, V12, V13, V14, V15, V16, Delas, Sappho, Ionia, Alpha, Beta, Delta, Gamma,



Gunboats (5 total)
Acheloos, Alphios, Eurotas (1894), 420 tons. I.H.P. 400 = 10 knots. Armament, 2 - 3.7" and 3 machine guns. Coal, 50 tons.
Ambrakia, Aktion (1885), 440 tons. I.H.P. 380 = 10 knots. Armament, 1 - 10" Krupp and 2 machine guns.

Corvette
Sfaktirea (1885), 1,000 tons. I.H.P. 2,400 = 14.5 knots. Armament, 2 - 3.9", 2 machine guns.
Coal capacity, 100 tons.

Torpedo Depot Ship
Kanaris (1877), 1,100 tons. I.H.P. 500 = 14 knots. Armament, 2 - 3.9" Krupp and a few machine guns.

I've got a bit more than that!
Here's the data I have on the Greek navy 1906:

Hellenic Navy (Greek)

Battleships (3 total)

Hydra (1891)
Spetzal (1892)
Psara (1893)

Cruisers (2 total)

Nauarchos Miaoulis (1879)

Hellas (1861)

Destroyers (4 total)

Niki, Doxa, Thyella, Nafkratousa (1906)

(Aspis, Velos, Lonhi, Sfendoni. paid for and available 1907)

Torpedo Boats (25 total)

Chios, Cyprus, Kos, Mytelene, Rhodes, Samos, Khalithia, Pherinika, Persephone, Terpsichore, Terpsithea, V11, V12, V13, V14, V15, V16, Delas, Sappho, Ionia, Alpha, Beta, Delta, Gamma,



Gunboats (5 total)
Acheloos, Alphios, Eurotas (1894), 420 tons. I.H.P. 400 = 10 knots. Armament, 2 - 3.7" and 3 machine guns. Coal, 50 tons.
Ambrakia, Aktion (1885), 440 tons. I.H.P. 380 = 10 knots. Armament, 1 - 10" Krupp and 2 machine guns.

Corvette
Sfaktirea (1885), 1,000 tons. I.H.P. 2,400 = 14.5 knots. Armament, 2 - 3.9", 2 machine guns.
Coal capacity, 100 tons.

Torpedo Depot Ship
Kanaris (1877), 1,100 tons. I.H.P. 500 = 14 knots. Armament, 2 - 3.9" Krupp and a few machine guns.

GB and LR's information is different. If it's probably better if it's smaller, because then you can build newer stuff

What transports do we have? I don't see any listed with the navies, so do we have to buy them?

you can convert a merchant shipping unit to a transport for free, or buy a transport unit

I've got a bit more than that!
Here's the data I have on the Greek navy 1906:


provide a link... also, if you read the naval units rules, you will notice that torpedo boats and destroyers are organized in units of 20, and so I round up or down to get that kind of unit. The 2 cruisers and the gunboats have no combat value whatsoever but combined with your corvettes will give you a gunboat flotilla (which has some usefulness in supporting ground forces and patroling)

Portugal: Your Military is way off... You do not have an HQ or any of those troops you have listed.

Here are the stats on Portugals current (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11639026&postcount=41) military according to GB:

Portuguese Army (volunteer force)
1 garrison unit (home), 1 garrison unit each (Mozambique, Angola)

Royal Portuguese Navy
Tech level 4.5 warships
CA
Rainha Dona Amelia
CP
Adamastor, Sao Gariel, Candido Reis

Naval bases: Lisbon, Loanda,
No naval yard (repairs etc usually handled in England)

Reminder that you need to correct your fact-book/main thread.

I forgot if reserves = free maintainence? I think it was in the 1st E20 timeline.

No reserve units are no longer free. BUt they cost half as much as a regular unit. Such as the maitence for a regular Infantry corps is .5 Points. For a reserve Corps it's .25 Points.

British Army 1906
Home forces:
Regular forces: 3 infantry corps, 1 cavalry corps, 1 HQ, 3 light infantry brigades (Royal Marines), 1 coast defense fortress (Gibraltar),
Territorial forces: 4 reserve infantry corps, 1 cavalry corps
Imperial garrisons: 1 garrison division each Jamaica, Nairobi, Freetown, Lagos, Suez,
1 coast defense artillery brigade each at Suez, Malta

Indian Army
Regular forces: 4 cavalry divisions, 3 infantry corps, garrison divisions at Hong Kong, Aden, Singapore, 6 light infantry brigades, (based on this http://www.orbat.com/site/history/historical/india/army1914units.html)
No reserve forces

British Dominions
Canadian forces:
Regular forces: 1 garrison division (Halifax)
Territorial forces: 1 reserve militia corps
South African forces:
Regular forces: 1 cavalry division
Reserve forces: 2 cavalry divisions
Australia / New Zealand
Regular forces: 1 garrison division
Reserve forces: 1 reserve militia corps, 1 reserve cavalry corps

Royal Navy 1906
Tech level 5 warships
Dreadnoughts
Dreadnought,
Under construction
Bellerophon (year 1 of 3 paid for, 1909)
http://home.att.net/~wellsbrothers/Battleships/RNBBtable.html

Light cruisers
Sentinel, Skirmisher, Pathfinder, Patrol, Forward, Foresight, Adventure, Attentive, Diamond, Amethyst, Sapphire, Topaz,

2 destroyer flotillas
1 submarine flotilla

tech level 4.5 warships
BBs
Swiftsure, Triumph, , Commonwealth, Dominion, Hibernia, Hindustan, King Edward VII, New Zealand, Albermarle, Cornwallis, Duncan, Exmouth, Montagu, Russell, Formidable, Irresistable, Implacable (1901). Also London, Bulwark, Venerable, Queen, Prince of Wales,
Under construction
Africa, Britannia, Hibernia, Lord Nelson, Agamenon (already paid for) available 1907

Armored cruisers
Defence, Minotaur, Shannon, Achilles, Cochrane, Natal, Warrior, Black Prince, Duke of Edinburgh, Antrim, Argyll, Carnarvon, Devonshire, Hampshire, Roxburgh, Monmouth, Bedford, Berwick, Cornwall, Cumberland, Donegal, Essex, Kent, Lancaster, Suffolk, Drake, Good Hope, King Alfred, Leviathan, Cressy, Aboukir, Sutlej, Hogue, Euryalus, Bacchante

Protected cruisers
Diadem, Amphitrite, Andromeda, Argonaut, Ariadne, Europe, Niobe, Spartiate, Powerful, Terrible, Highflyer, Hermes, Hyacinth, Challenger, Encounter, Arrogant, Furious, Gladiator, Vindictive, Eclipse, Diana, Dido, Doris, Isis, Juno, Minerva, Talbot, Venus, Astraea, Bonaventure, Cambrian, Charybdis, Flora, Forte, Fox, Hermione, Edgar, Hawke, Endymion, Royal Arthur, Gibraltar, Grafton, St George, Theseus, Crescent

4 destroyer flotillas,
1 coast defense submarine flotilla

Tech level 4 warships
BB2
Available
Canopus, Albion, Glory, Goliath, Ocean, Vengance, Majestic, Illustrious, Mars, Jupiter, Hannibal, Caesar, Magnificent, Prince George, Victorious, Hood, Royal Sovereign, Empress of India, Repulse, Ramilles, Resolution, Revenge, Royal Oak, Trafalgar, Nile
1 torpedo boat flotilla
5 gunboat flotillas

Plus 4 transport units

Naval Yards:
Portsmouth, Plymouth, Liverpool, London, Tyne, Bombay, Alexandria,
Naval bases:
Gibraltar, Malta, Suez, Aden, Colombo, Capetown, Jamaica, Hong Kong, Sydney, Vancouver, Halifax,

Am I to assume that the UK has complete control and maintence responsibility of all forces stationed in Australia at this point?

Also, should I put up the units of the Colonial Combined Fleet (a bunch of aging gunboats, torpedo boats and other auxiliaries - includes SA's "one ship navy" the HMS Protector)?

http://www.gwpda.org/naval/fdzz0001.htm
Miscellaneous Smaller Navies, 1914
Here's the link for my navy details

Another link that might be interesting to those building battleships and dreadnaughts:
http://www.friesian.com/dreadnot.htm

Am I to assume that the UK has complete control and maintence responsibility of all forces stationed in Australia at this point?

Also, should I put up the units of the Colonial Combined Fleet (a bunch of aging gunboats, torpedo boats and other auxiliaries - includes SA's "one ship navy" the HMS Protector)?

you pay for the Australian ground forces, while the British pay for the RN until such time as the British help you to create or allow you to create a Royal Australian Navy.

gunboat flotillas are already added in

Scratch that, what GB said.

Parthini;11654603']Britain will be paying for the Dominion armies, but I don't know if the other ships are actually worthy.

actually the Dominions are supposed to pay for their armies as part of their status of being a Dominion. I would recommend buying a light cruiser each for the Canadians, Australians and South Africans so you can start their navies, or a gunboat flotilla or destroyer flotilla.

You have a lot of dreadnoughts to build, not to mention needing tech level 5 light cruisers, destroyers and battle cruisers plus submarines

I've got a bit more than that!
Here's the data I have on the Greek navy 1906:

Hellenic Navy (Greek)

Battleships (3 total)

Hydra (1891)
Spetzal (1892)
Psara (1893)

Cruisers (2 total)

Nauarchos Miaoulis (1879)

Hellas (1861)

Destroyers (4 total)

Niki, Doxa, Thyella, Nafkratousa (1906)

(Aspis, Velos, Lonhi, Sfendoni. paid for and available 1907)

Torpedo Boats (25 total)

Chios, Cyprus, Kos, Mytelene, Rhodes, Samos, Khalithia, Pherinika, Persephone, Terpsichore, Terpsithea, V11, V12, V13, V14, V15, V16, Delas, Sappho, Ionia, Alpha, Beta, Delta, Gamma,



Gunboats (5 total)
Acheloos, Alphios, Eurotas (1894), 420 tons. I.H.P. 400 = 10 knots. Armament, 2 - 3.7" and 3 machine guns. Coal, 50 tons.
Ambrakia, Aktion (1885), 440 tons. I.H.P. 380 = 10 knots. Armament, 1 - 10" Krupp and 2 machine guns.

Corvette
Sfaktirea (1885), 1,000 tons. I.H.P. 2,400 = 14.5 knots. Armament, 2 - 3.9", 2 machine guns.
Coal capacity, 100 tons.

Torpedo Depot Ship
Kanaris (1877), 1,100 tons. I.H.P. 500 = 14 knots. Armament, 2 - 3.9" Krupp and a few machine guns.

http://www.gwpda.org/naval/fdzz0001.htm
Miscellaneous Smaller Navies, 1914
Here's the link for my navy details

Another link that might be interesting to those building battleships and dreadnaughts:
http://www.friesian.com/dreadnot.htm

Here's the proof.

Here's the proof.

I gave you a gunboat flotilla to take care of your elderly obsolete cruisers and various gunboats and corvettes

how much to refit a ship?

Also, can we improve a ship's tech level anyway?

Excellent question. I am curious as well. I gather to a point you can.

how much to refit a ship?

Also, can we improve a ship's tech level anyway?

you can't really at this point... later on however it will be possible based on the size of the ship and the tech level its being converted to.

Tech level 4 ships are generally built of iron, or wood overlaid with iron, and have little steel or inferior steel compared to tech level 4.5 and tech level 5 ships. They also lack the compartmentalization found later on. That is an intergral part of the design and you can't work around it. Now later on, steel tech level 5 dreadnoughts for example can be refitted and modernized as they are given better guns, radar, etc, but those refits are not basic alterations of the hull.

Rules for converting cruisers and battle cruisers (and even dreadnoughts) and other ships into aircraft carriers will be provided when the time comes for that to occur (not yet by any means)

Royal Norwegian Navy
Tech level 4.5
Coast defense BB1
Norge, Eidsvold
CP
Tordenskjold, Harald Haarfagre
Plus 1 torpedo boat flotilla
Naval base: Oslo (repair work at either British or German ports)

Royal Danish Navy
Tech level 4
Coast defense BB2
Tordenskjold
CP
Heimdal, Gejser, Hekla, Valkyrien
No naval bases or yards, major port: Copenhagen (repair work done in England or Germany)

Royal Swedish Navy
Tech level 4.5
Coast defense BB1
Dristigheten, Oscar II,
coast defense CA
Äran, Manligheten, Tapperheten, Vasa, Oden, Thor, Niord, Svea, Göta, Thule
Naval Yard; Copenhagen
Naval base: Karlskrone

Spanish Navy
Tech level 4.5
CA
Reina Regente, Princesa de Asturias, Cataluna, Emperador Carlos V,
CP
Estramadura, Rio de la Plata
1 torpedo boat flotilla
tech level 4
BB2
Pelayo
CP
Alfonso XII, Reina Mercedes, Infanta Isabel
Naval Yard; Cadiz
Naval bases: Bilboa, Cartegena, Palma

The Spanish Navy suffered severe losses during Spanish American War but has replaced some of those losses

Italian Navy (Regia Marine)
Tech level 4.5
BB1
Napoli, Regina Elena, Roma, Vittorio Emanuele, Regina Margherita, Benedetto Brin
Ammiraglio di Saint Bon, Emanuele Filiberto
CA
Giusuppe Garibaldi, Varese, Francsco Ferruccio, Vettor Pisani, Carlo Alberto, Marco Polo
CP
Calabria, Umbria, Lombardia, Etruria, Liguria, Elba, Puglia
1 destroyer flotilla
2 submarines (but not enough for a flotilla)
tech level 4
BB2
Re Umberto, Sicilia, Sardegnia, Andrea Doria, Ruggerio di Lauria, Francesco Morosini
Italia, Duilio, Dandolo

Naval yards: Taranto, Naples
Naval bases: Syracuse, La Spezia

Royal Hellenic Navy
Tech level 4.5
1 torpedo boat flotilla
tech level 4
CP (glorified gunboats)
Nauarchos Miaoulis, Hellas
naval base: Pireaus

Ottoman Navy
Tech level 4.5
CP Hamidieh
Tech level 4
BB2 Fethi Bulend
Naval base: Istanbul

Why would the Kingdom need to use Copenhagen's naval yard instead of supplementing it with Stockholm or some other part town within Swedish territory?

I gave you a gunboat flotilla to take care of your elderly obsolete cruisers and various gunboats and corvettes
You mean, you're giving me a Gunboat flotilla?

Yes, he means that.

You mean, you're giving me a Gunboat flotilla?

Merry Christmas

What about my destroyers?
I should have 4 this year, and 4 more next year.

Hey GB I've got a few questions;

1.
If we want to upgrade a ground unit up a tech level (E.g a Tech 3 Garrison Unit to Tech 5) how do we do it? Does it cost points? Or do we just need to get the agreement of a Tech 5 nation to train our troops and provide the equipment?

2.
On a similar note, can we upgrade naval units up a tech level? If so how?

3.
How much does it cost to build a Naval Base? Can we build them?

4.
Can ports like Macau which are too small, be enlarged to be able to accomodate a naval base?

5.
What are the strengths and weaknesses of a protected cruiser versus a light cruiser?

Following the glorious French cavalry charge in Morocco and the earlier victories of the British in the early Boer War nations the world over place greater emphasis on their cavalry arms. More lance or sabre armed cavalry are trained and greater emphasis is placed on use of cavalry to defeat infantry in the field.

Britain reintroduces the lance, despite retraining lancers as hussars, dragoons and mounted infantry following their lack of success against the Boer mounted kommandos in the latter stages of the war. Russia also reintroduces all arms of the cavalry (lancer, hussar, dragoon etc.) after maintaining only mounted infantry since 1881. Other nations do similar things and their military analysts reassure them that the offensive arm of cavalry is just the thing to combat defensive infantry and artillery.

OOC: An unavoidable consequence of a successful cavalry charge, the armies of the early 20th century followed this route anyway (Britain reintroduced lance in 1909, Russia reinstated traditional cavalry in 1910), just things have been speeded up by recent events. Your generals will employ cavalry wherever possible and will push for more cavalry units to be included. Nothing you can do to avoid this one i'm afraid, until a big war proves your analysts wrong.

Following the glorious French cavalry charge in Morocco and the earlier victories of the British in the early Boer War nations the world over place greater emphasis on their cavalry arms. More lance or sabre armed cavalry are trained and greater emphasis is placed on use of cavalry to defeat infantry in the field.

Britain reintroduces the lance, despite retraining lancers as hussars, dragoons and mounted infantry following their lack of success against the Boer mounted kommandos in the latter stages of the war. Russia also reintroduces all arms of the cavalry (lancer, hussar, dragoon etc.) after maintaining only mounted infantry since 1881. Other nations do similar things and their military analysts reassure them that the offensive arm of cavalry is just the thing to combat defensive infantry and artillery.

OOC: An unavoidable consequence of a successful cavalry charge, the armies of the early 20th century followed this route anyway (Britain reintroduced lance in 1909, Russia reinstated traditional cavalry in 1910), just things have been speeded up by recent events. Your generals will employ cavalry wherever possible and will push for more cavalry units to be included. Nothing you can do to avoid this one i'm afraid, until a big war proves your analysts wrong.

What about Japan? I think most if not all of our fighting was with Infantry, so could we follow something different?

Your generals will employ cavalry wherever possible and will push for more cavalry units to be included. Nothing you can do to avoid this one i'm afraid, until a big war proves your analysts wrong.

I'm not going to complain. Cavalry is actually useful on the pampas.

Research
Tech level 5 projects
Dreadnought warships -- USA, UK, Japan free, all others 12 points and must be tech level 5


Rigid Airships (Zeppelins) -- Germany free, France 6 points, all others 12 points, and allows you to build Zeppelins. Each Zeppelin unit is 5 airships, and they have a range of 400 miles and can be used for terror bombing or scouting or used as an airline unit (provides 1 point of income a year, maximum 2 points)

.

Why isn't Germany free as well? We were right there in the dread race, the Nassau was laid down almost as soon as word went out aout the Dreadnaught.

Also, how much do Zepelins cost?

Why isn't Germany free as well? We were right there in the dread race, the Nassau was laid down almost as soon as word went out aout the Dreadnaught.

Also, how much do Zepelins cost?

Safehaven, I can provide you with the tech as you're building them for me, maybe you can provide some tech for me later

Also, how much do Zepelins cost?

From the first page:

Rigid Airships (Zeppelins) -- Germany free, France 6 points, all others 12 points, and allows you to build Zeppelins. Each Zeppelin unit is 5 airships, and they have a range of 400 miles and can be used for terror bombing or scouting or used as an airline unit (provides 1 point of income a year, maximum 2 points)

Non Rigid Airships (Blimps) -- 6 points, and allows you to build Blimp units. Each unit is 20 blimps and they can be used for scouting up to a range of 200 miles.

But how much does an airship unit cost?

[QUOTE=Kordo;11664566]....QUOTE]


Not the research cost, but a unit of zepellins.

Non Rigid Airships (Blimps) -- 6 points, and allows you to build Blimp units. Each unit is 20 blimps and they can be used for scouting up to a range of 200 miles.

Why does it cost France six points? France and its military has expierence with Non Rigid Airships going all the way back to the Franco-Prussian War...

And you have Santos Dumont, who flew the airship around the Eiffel Tower.

Why does it cost France six points? France and its military has expierence with Non Rigid Airships going all the way back to the Franco-Prussian War...

which is why you get them cheaper than everyone else except the Germans

How many ships can I build a year?

The British Admiralty announces that it will be selling most of its old battleships in an attempt to modernize the Navy. Tech level 4 BB2s will be sold for 1.5 points a piece to any and all who are willing. 4 a year will be put on the market for all who are interested, and will begin selling them in 1907. Requests to purchase must be made directly to the Admiralty (i.e. the British D/N Thread).

Russian ORBAT. Also on Russian thread.

ORBAT

St. Petersburg Military District
1 HQ (STAVKA)
1 Guard Corps
1 Artillery Division
1 Cavalry Corps
2 reserve Militia Cavalry Corps
2 Reserve Infantry Corps
2 Militia Corps

Warsaw Military District
1 Reserve HQ
3 Infantry Corps
6 Reserve Infantry Corps
2 Cavalry Corps
2 Reserve Militia Cavalry Corps
1 Light Infantry Division
4 Militia Corps

Odessa Military District
1 Reserve HQ
3 Infantry Corps
6 Reserve Infantry Corps
1 Cavalry Corps
2 Reserve Militia Cavalry Corps
1 Mountain Division
4 Militia Corps

Far East Military District
Centered at Vladivistok
1 HQ
1 Infantry Corps
1 Fortress
2 Reserve Infantry Corps
1 Reserve Militia Cavalry Corps

Centered at Irkutsk
1 Infantry Corps
2 Reserve Infantry Corps
2 Militia Corps
2 Reserve Militia Cavalry Corps

Southern Military District
Centered at Ashkabad
1 Infantry Corps
1 Cavalry Corps
2 Reserve Infantry Corps
2 Militia Corps
2 Reserve Militia Cavalry Corps
1 Mountain Division

Centered at Tbisili
1 Infantry Corps
2 Reserve Infantry Corps
2 Militia Corps
2 Reserve Militia Cavalry Corps

Moscow Reserve District
4 Reserve Infantry Corps
1 Reserve Militia Cavalry Corps
2 Militia Corps

Kiev Reserve District
4 Reserve Infantry Corps
2 Reserve Militia Cavalry Corps
1 Militia Corps

Sevastapol Military District
1 Fortress
1 Infantry Corps
1 Reserve Infantry Corps
1 Light Infantry Corps (Naval Infantry)
1 Militia Corps

light infantry don't come in corps... Russia, you either have 2 naval infantry divisions or 6 naval infantry brigades (but I think actually you are supposed to have 1 naval infantry brigade at start unless you built more)

can you build reserve light infantry? if so, how much is their cost?

EDIT: Also, can you build a reserve HQ unit?

bump

can you build reserve light infantry? if so, how much is their cost?

EDIT: Also, can you build a reserve HQ unit?

A reserve unit is half the cost of the actual unit

The Portugeuse begin offering to sell their three old tech level 4.5 protected cruisers (Adamastor, Sao Gariel and Candido Reis) to the highest bidder starting at 1 point each.

The Portugeuse begin offering to sell their three old tech level 4.5 protected cruisers (Adamastor, Sao Gariel and Candido Reis) to the highest bidder starting at 1 point each.

Japan offers to purchase all 3 in 1909

European Armies
Swedish forces (conscript force)
Sweden can fully mobilize very quickly but by law its army cannot be used outside of the country except for special circumstances
4 light infantry brigades (ski troops), 4 infantry corps, 1 fortress division (Stockholm)

Somewhat confused on the Swedish army. Sweden apparently has a 340,000 man army. However, at 3% of population Sweden is only allowed 165,000 active duty troops. Should some (or all) of these units be reserve?

Can you convert a corp into a fortress corp? And for how much?

Upgrading units
spend the difference in cost and allow for 6 months and you can upgrade a unit from brigade to division, or division to corps, or improve a brigade, division or corps sized unit in quality from militia or reserve to regular, or convert it from one type of unit (such as garrison etc) to another (such as infantry)

From the front page.

From the front page.

They have the same cost, hence my question.

Oh, I see. I'd imagine so, but I don't know exactly.

Svensk Marin:
2 BB (Dristigheten [1900], Oscar II [1905]) - .5 Maintence Total
10 CA (21 cm guns: Äran, Manligheten, Tapperheten, Vasa [1902], Svea, Göta, Thule [1894]. 24.9 cm guns: Oden, Thor, Niord [1899]) - 2.5 Maintence Total
Naval Yard: Copenhagen - 1 pt cost
Naval Base: Karlskrone - .5 pt Maintence

Swedish Army:
(Conscript Force)
Infantry Division - .5 Maintence total
4 Infantry Corp - 2 Maintence Total
4 Highly Trained Alpine Brigades - .4 Maintence total
Supply Staff - .5 Maintence

Somewhat confused on the Swedish army. Sweden apparently has a 340,000 man army. However, at 3% of population Sweden is only allowed 165,000 active duty troops. Should some (or all) of these units be reserve?

Some of the units should be reserve to be honest...

Can you convert a corp into a fortress corp? And for how much?

free except for time lag (essentially 1 year in peacetime, 6 months in wartime)

Tag

Reserve navies can exist right? As in you are paying for the ships, but not the cost of maintaning the crew as the crew is simply reserve. I think thats how the Naval Reserve Works.

I just recently got the PT Boat Flotilla and a Minesweeper flotilla.

What are there maintenance costs? As they are not listed in this thread.,

Each flotilla costs .1 points for maintenance. It's on the first page, third post I think; the one will all the naval units. You've got to look for it, there's a lot of stuff there.

The Army of Albania (conscription):
Regular:
1 Light Infantry Brigade (Tirana)
.10 Maintance

Reserve:
2 Infantry Corps
.50 Maintance

Fort Skanderbeg (1 fortress in Skutari) <-- Not sure about the fort, what the old player had.

Total Maintance: .60 points

for fortresses see Special in the 2nd post...

I just recently got the PT Boat Flotilla and a Minesweeper flotilla.

What are there maintenance costs? As they are not listed in this thread.,

first page, under naval units of this thread

.10 points each

So when does plane research start?

When analyzing this naval arms race btwn britain and the US during my spare time, i was surprised to see how fast the number of men we had enlisted was.

I noticed that my projected navy for 1911 was now a sizeable percentage of my population, and when looking at britains navy noticed that it was over 2.3% of his. Adding in army units puts the UK pretty close to the 3% population cap. Unless the British army and navy are drafted at this time, Parthini is pretty well maxed out after 1911. The US will follow suit fairly soon.

The solution I can only assume is to start placing older ships in storage. Just a heads up though.

Parthini could always transfer some of his older ships to the dominion navies (RAN, RCN etc) to keep them reasonably under his control whilst making way for newer vessels in the RN. He would need to have the dominions' players willing to pay the extra maintenance and control their navies. I can't see the British government agreeing to transfer battleships like that (can't have the colonies getting too powerful!) but it would be a good way to get rid of excess cruisers etc.

When analyzing this naval arms race btwn britain and the US during my spare time, i was surprised to see how fast the number of men we had enlisted was.

I noticed that my projected navy for 1911 was now a sizeable percentage of my population, and when looking at britains navy noticed that it was over 2.3% of his. Adding in army units puts the UK pretty close to the 3% population cap. Unless the British army and navy are drafted at this time, Parthini is pretty well maxed out after 1911. The US will follow suit fairly soon.

The solution I can only assume is to start placing older ships in storage. Just a heads up though.


adjustment to rule
At tech level 5, naval units require only 4,000 men per unit. Older units still require 5,000 men.

Naval units can also be placed in reserve. They cost 1 point to bring out of reserve.

adjustment to rule
At tech level 5, naval units require only 4,000 men per unit. Older units still require 5,000 men.

Naval units can also be placed in reserve. They cost 1 point to bring out of reserve.

Ahh, GB I love you...

BTW, I will begin to look at my navy and figure out what I need to start scrapping/giving to the Dominions. Will have that plus my Order of Battle for 1910 figured out tonight.

Albania would be intersetted in a flotilla, possibly ;)

Army of the Republic of China-Conscript-based

Guangdong Army
80,000 men
4 garrison units
Guangxi Army
45,000 men
1 garrison unit, 1 light infantry division
Hunan Army
80,000 men
1 light infantry division, 2 garrison units, 1 cavalry division
Jiangxi Army
60,000 men
3 garrison units
Zhejiang Army
60,000 men
3 garrison units
Fujian Army
40,000 men
2 garrison units

Matenance=3.95

Builds-

2 Regular Infantry corps 8 points (using German advisors, US Aid)

Albania would be intersetted in a flotilla, possibly ;)

Your best bet would be asking Germany, US or UK(or pretty much any tech 5 nation) in their respective threads if they would make one for you.

So when does plane research start?

a considerable time from now, as applied aeronautical engineering research doesnt show up for some time (1920s)

for now aircraft design is still in the pioneering glorified hobby stage.

aircraft will be made available when they historically show up at this point, and military aircraft aren't on the horizon just yet.

Reserve navies can exist right? As in you are paying for the ships, but not the cost of maintaning the crew as the crew is simply reserve. I think thats how the Naval Reserve Works.

at this point naval reserves as they exist today don't exist yet. Ships are laid up in reserve, while the reserve crews are drawn from the merchant service and fishing fleets plus recruited landsmen when war comes

Your best bet would be asking Germany, US or UK(or pretty much any tech 5 nation) in their respective threads if they would make one for you.

I know, I was reffering to GBs post above mine with that statement. Hesaid he had to go through and decide which fleets to decomision or give away.

A naval base can be converted into a naval yard for 12 points and takes one year. A naval yard is required for the construction of naval units.



Naval units must end their turn at a minor port, major port, naval base or naval yard (generally they go out to sea and return to the nearest base)




new information

major ports and minor ports are indicated on the World in Flames maps for Africa, Asia and Europe. Major ports for the Western Hemisphere are indicated already

Ahh ok I got it now. Thanks. So I can build ships and put them in mothballs for a couple years. ALright.

Two Light Cruisers NPR Seita De Carga and NPR Lançasusto are deployed to Hong Kong where they begin patrols of the eastern Portuguese possesions.

On the way they escorted the three old Protected Cruisers; NPR Adamastor, NPR Sao Gariel and NPR Candido Reis to Hong Kong where they are to remain untill their sale is completed.

So it says I can research Superdreadnoughts 8 years after I can build Dreadnoughts. Does that mean that I can research them in 1912 (which includes 1905 with HMS Dreadnought)?

Parthini;11756344']So it says I can research Superdreadnoughts 8 years after I can build Dreadnoughts. Does that mean that I can research them in 1912 (which includes 1905 with HMS Dreadnought)?

ya, i had some confusion on that too. I have a TG that says

US laid down its first dreadnought in 1905, so the New York class will be the first US superdreadnoughts and you could start them 1911, finish by end 1913

same with British

So I did the research in 1910 so I could start in 1911 and finish in 1913...

If that needs correction, all i need is the word.

Blah, blah.

Not from what I've seen. The First American Dreadnought was laid down in December 1906, not 1905, while HMS Dreadnought was laid down in 06.

Parthini;11756739']Not from what I've seen. The First American Dreadnought was laid down in December 1906, not 1905, while HMS Dreadnought was laid down in 06.

I only report what hear...

Parthini;11756344']So it says I can research Superdreadnoughts 8 years after I can build Dreadnoughts. Does that mean that I can research them in 1912 (which includes 1905 with HMS Dreadnought)?

specific rules for Superdreadnoughts and improved Battle cruisers added to naval portion of the rules.

Also, Naval units scale for game purposes
Each naval unit requires 4,000 men (including people ashore) to support and man it. Beginning at tech level 5, each naval unit requires only 3,000 men.

Note the change

research for SDNs and improved BCs not required if you build DNs and BCs under the rules requirement

otherwise, it costs 60 points to research super DNs or improved BCs to skip the required builds or you wait until you reach tech level 5.5 and don't have to pay that penalty

specific rules for Superdreadnoughts and improved Battle cruisers added to naval portion of the rules.

Also, Naval units scale for game purposes
Each naval unit requires 4,000 men (including people ashore) to support and man it. Beginning at tech level 5, each naval unit requires only 3,000 men.

Note the change

research for SDNs and improved BCs not required if you build DNs and BCs under the rules requirement

otherwise, it costs 60 points to research super DNs or improved BCs to skip the required builds or you wait until you reach tech level 5.5 and don't have to pay that penalty


So Japan can research improved Battlecruisers and Super-Dreadnoughts now and pay the 60 points? Is there any restriction as the the number of points spent, like 12 points a year?

So Japan can research improved Battlecruisers and Super-Dreadnoughts now and pay the 60 points? Is there any restriction as the the number of points spent, like 12 points a year?

no restrictions... nearly all of the Japanese dreadnought battleships and battlecruisers count as superdreadnoughts historically (exceptions are the Ise class)

KMT Army
Guangdong Army
80,000 men
3 garrison units
Guangxi Army
45,000 men
1 garrison unit
Hunan Army
80,000 men
2 garrison units
Jiangxi Army
60,000 men
3 garrison units
Zhejiang Army
60,000 men
3 garrison units
Fujian Army
20,000
1 garrison unit
Sichuan Army
3 garrison units
1 point, upgrade 3 garrison units, 1 cavalry division to 6 garrison units, 1 cavalry division, 5 light infantry divisions (all tech level 2) for 16 pts
Guazhou Army
3 garrison units .75, upgrade to 5 garrison units (4 points)

New Model Army (currently in Fujian)

6 Regular Infantry corps (plus one Portuguese Corps as advisors)
1 Light infantry units
1 cavalry division (technically from Sichuan, but attached to NMA)


Republican Navy-

2 PCs-.2 matenance (RCS Sun Yat Sen, Shen Long)
1 Light Cruisers-.3 (RCS Armorine)

RCS Sun and RCS Armorine currently at home base, doing special jobs.....RCS Shen Long out a-raiding in the Indian Ocean

If I have three divisions, can I combine them and call them a corps without paying? Also, could I split a corps into three independent divisions?

If I have three divisions, can I combine them and call them a corps without paying? Also, could I split a corps into three independent divisions?

no, part of the cost of a corps (which is 2 divisions) is the corps artillery and engineer support not found at the divisional level.

no restrictions... nearly all of the Japanese dreadnought battleships and battlecruisers count as superdreadnoughts historically (exceptions are the Ise class)

Can you upgrade a Dreadnought to Super Dreadnought?

Can you upgrade a Dreadnought to Super Dreadnought?

no... because the differences that mark them occur at the time of construction (gun size, amount of armor, overall tonnage, beam, draft and length, space available for engines etc)

...what upgrades can be made naval wise?

Can you upgrade a Dreadnought to Super Dreadnought?

related question then.

At what point in construction? Could a dread with only 1 of three years be paid for be upgraded during construction to a superdread?

What strategic moves does Brazil possess at this time? Is it capable enough of getting a few brigades to my western borders during emergencies? (the terrain isn't exactly the best for travelling by foot)

And to add on the naval question chain, do the ships constructed in foreign ports (namely the US, Britain, etc.) inherit the bonuses of that country? For example, do my battlecruisers (which were built in America) have a range of 4 sea areas or the normal 2?

related question then.

At what point in construction? Could a dread with only 1 of three years be paid for be upgraded during construction to a superdread?

yes

although you have to pay the extra points and it adds another year of construction time

...what upgrades can be made naval wise?

only upgrades are converting tech 5 dreadnoughts from burning coal to oil at this point.. that will change as the game goes on

What strategic moves does Brazil possess at this time? Is it capable enough of getting a few brigades to my western borders during emergencies? (the terrain isn't exactly the best for travelling by foot)

And to add on the naval question chain, do the ships constructed in foreign ports (namely the US, Britain, etc.) inherit the bonuses of that country? For example, do my battlecruisers (which were built in America) have a range of 4 sea areas or the normal 2?


you can move 1 corps worth of troops using river boats

and yes to the naval question

naval yards now able to handle 15 naval units, and naval bases can handle 10 naval units. Remember, large ships like cruisers and battleships are 1 unit, while destroyer flotillas of 20 ships are also 1 unit.

new unit
Police unit 2 points, maintenance .25
1 garrison unit per 10 million will prevent uprisings in home territory or colonial territory and also reduce the effects of guerilla warfare and terrorism and anti state movements. Has negligible combat value however.

Democratic states cannot have police units unless circumstances warrant it (a major uprising or threat of one).

Russia gets 3 to start with (must start in St. Petersburg, Moscow and Kiev), Austria gets 1 to start with (1 in Sarejevo), Imperial China and the KMT each get one (1 for each of their capitals). The 3 Russian, 1 each for Austria, Imperial China and KMT China are free. All other police units must be purchased.

Police units are not the same as an intelligence service, which gathers information. Police units are for repression.

Incidently, Police units tend to create atrocities and abuse the population.

So Police units. Can these be transferred to the first page so we uhh don't have to remember what page it's on.

I need all PC countries, but particularly Germany, Russia, France, Italy, Austria Hungary, all of the Balkans, Ottoman Empire, British Empire, and and Japan and Nationalist China to post in their national threads their current 1911 armed forces, and importantly, where those forces are in this format

example
Germany
Berlin - 1 Guards Infantry corps, 2 reserve infantry corps

Japan
Southern Fleet (based at Formosa)
BB Mikasa, 1 destroyer flotilla

it would make life much easier for me, and things may be happening in the near future

How do we distinguish between a reserve Infantry Corps and an Infantry Corps that is reserve?

France has 4 regular infantry corps, and 32 reserve infantry corps. However, 20 of those are Infantry Corps listed as reserves, and the other 12 are specifically called "reserve infantry corps." What's the difference?

GB, my current forces on on the second post of my N/D thread. Don't havea link at the moment sorry..

How do we distinguish between a reserve Infantry Corps and an Infantry Corps that is reserve?

France has 4 regular infantry corps, and 32 reserve infantry corps. However, 20 of those are Infantry Corps listed as reserves, and the other 12 are specifically called "reserve infantry corps." What's the difference?

reserve infantry corps are supposed to consist of just reservists who get called up, while regular infantry corps are supposed to be regular troops. Hence the price difference. Reserve units do have a lot of regulars in them, but cannot be deployed until mobilization. In theory the regulars hold the borders until the reserves get called up to join them.

During war time, all infantry corps cost the same to maintain and build. A new unit, assault infantry, will be added once a really big European war starts to show difference between a corps capable of just holding a line, and a unit capable of determined attack.

But in theory all corps are supposed to be able to do that before the war.

reserve infantry corps are supposed to consist of just reservists who get called up, while regular infantry corps are supposed to be regular troops. Hence the price difference. Reserve units do have a lot of regulars in them, but cannot be deployed until mobilization. In theory the regulars hold the borders until the reserves get called up to join them.

So my 20 Infantry Corps that are listed as reserves are essentially regulars who don't count against the population restrictions (3% for a conscript army), whereas the Reserve Infantry Corps are actually reservists?

I'm asking because I want to know whether, after mobilization, I will have 24 corps and 12 reservist corps, or 4 regular corps and 32 reservist corps.

Rumania
Bucharest -2 Infantry Corps, 1 Reserve Infantry Corp

Well with all that information I suppose we might ahve a war on our hands soon. THat's not so good.

How do we distinguish between a reserve Infantry Corps and an Infantry Corps that is reserve?

France has 4 regular infantry corps, and 32 reserve infantry corps. However, 20 of those are Infantry Corps listed as reserves, and the other 12 are specifically called "reserve infantry corps." What's the difference?

ok, after thinking about it

just divide your army into 3 sections:
Regular army (regular infantry corps)
Reservists (regular infantry corps but are reserve units)
and
Landwehr (reserve infantry corps that are reserve units)

by the way, when the time comes, for Russia and Germany, I will take into account where you want your units to start (based on your OBs), but reserve and landwehr units will actually begin in their home cities, which are spread around a bit

I need all PC countries, but particularly Germany, Russia, France, Italy, Austria Hungary, all of the Balkans, Ottoman Empire, British Empire, and and Japan and Nationalist China to post in their national threads their current 1911 armed forces, and importantly, where those forces are in this format

example
Germany
Berlin - 1 Guards Infantry corps, 2 reserve infantry corps

Japan
Southern Fleet (based at Formosa)
BB Mikasa, 1 destroyer flotilla

it would make life much easier for me, and things may be happening in the near future

Erm, that might be a little difficult for Australia. I was under the impression that units could be spread to cover the entire country, especially with regard to reserves and garrison units.

Erm, that might be a little difficult for Australia. I was under the impression that units could be spread to cover the entire country, especially with regard to reserves and garrison units.

yes that is true in your case... garrison units are pretty much spread about, but their HQ is located somewhere, so that will work, while reserve units have a mobilization center where the bulk of their equipment is located

Ok so back to what we were at. I suppose.

some new rules and units
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11801199&postcount=3

some new rules and units
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11801199&postcount=3

Will all these units (particularly motorized) be availble to non-warring nations? For example can Japan begin construction on Motorized Brigades or do i need to wait a few years, with tech needed, etc?

updates regarding naval and air units posted... see rules posts at start of thread

Will all these units (particularly motorized) be availble to non-warring nations? For example can Japan begin construction on Motorized Brigades or do i need to wait a few years, with tech needed, etc?

yes, but not until 1912

motorized units are only available if you are tech level 5, or can trade with a tech level 5 nation

May I ask why Austria-Hungary recieves no bonuses? It does have a decent experienced military especially after tough fighting in Albania.

Because a lot of nation staters and E20 players in particular like to fight wars and the 20th Century is full of them

General Rules
Ground units scale for game purposes
Corps sized (50,000 men) include corps and headquarters units
Division sized (20,000 men) include divisions as well as garrison units, typically 3 divisions make up a corps
.

NOTE change in corps size

Same with SPain. It's said that you learn more from defeat than victory. (Germany after the first world war is a huge example of learning and not learning from a defeat.) And they just fought a war in Morroco in some nasty terrain. Not like Germany of course, but if Italy gets +1 I was curious.

Also what happened with the Spanish cavalry in Morroc, that's why I've shown an extreme difference in Spanish thinking due to cavalry from the rest of Europe. ANd included Spanish pride in the mix.

I am not going to explain every nations rating

actually, Austria and Spain did improve, but from negative ratings to 0. Spain, your war was essentially just a colonial war against ill armed tribesmen. Austria, you did get some valuable experience, but the fighting was too short a duration to really provide much incentive for improvement beyond what you are rated at

I hope the Bulgarian Army improved aswell from the fighting in the Balkans?

Ohhhh ok. Well that's good. From negatives to a base is fine with me.

I hope the Bulgarian Army improved aswell from the fighting in the Balkans?

Bulgaria, Greece, Albania and Rumania all have a 0 base (improvement from negative base pre Balkan War)

So I'm guessing that Serbia still has a negative since it did nothing during the Balkan War?

Uhhhhhhhhhh wait Serbia held Austria off for 2 years with no to very little Russian help during the First World War. If Austrian troops were supposed to be worse than Serbian ones, shouldn't Serbia not be at negatives at all? I mean seriously the morale and zeal of the Serbians made them formidable opponents.

Uhhhhhhhhhh wait Serbia held Austria off for 2 years with no to very little Russian help during the First World War. If Austrian troops were supposed to be worse than Serbian ones, shouldn't Serbia not be at negatives at all? I mean seriously the morale and zeal of the Serbians made them formidable opponents.

Pretty sure GB said he wasn't going to discuss each one.

A-H and Serbia both had negative ratings, and in many cases Austro-Hungarian troops were outnumbered by Serbian forces (but they inflicted horrifying casualties on Serbian forces)

Uhhhhhhhhhh wait Serbia held Austria off for 2 years with no to very little Russian help during the First World War. If Austrian troops were supposed to be worse than Serbian ones, shouldn't Serbia not be at negatives at all? I mean seriously the morale and zeal of the Serbians made them formidable opponents.

Serbia is a rating of 0 already, also, Austria had an extremely poor strategy in RL for dealing with Serbia, and had some bad generals

What's this about proficiency ratings? Does Portugal have one?

Anyway link to Portuguese military circa 1911


Edit: hmm it seems the Portugeuse thread has some how disappeared off the face of Jolt.

Ok here is a question. WHat tech level do you need to be in order to start an army air corps? I know air forces as independent units don't start for much later. So that's my question. SInce the first airplanes are starting to come out.

How do the Albanian troops get the same rating as the Greek ones??

I am not going to explain every nations rating

seriously, you would have no idea about how good your troops really are until they fight someone

the nations that fought in the Balkan War all had poor militaries with mediocre doctrine and fought long enough to improve it. In that respect, Greece wasn't any better off then Albania was before or after the war.

You can start an army air corps if you can afford to buy an air unit from a tech level 5 nation that actually has an aviation industry

at this point that would be France, Italy, UK, Netherlands (because of Fokker), Austria, US, Russia

others will be added as the historical figures and designs they made show up (such as Rumania, Japan, Canada, Australia, etc)

This time around (this RP) will not be allowing nations that historically don't have aviation industries to develop one, except in very specific circumstances. Last game I let the USEA and Colombia come up with one because they had much accelerated industralization and tech level over real life. So far that has not come up in this game.

Greece developing its own aviation industry is unrealistic because Greece historically didn't because the conditions didn't exist for it to do so. So under the realism rules its not a good idea to let Greece (as an example) do so.

But Greece can buy other peoples airplanes, and then train pilots and pay maintenance so it can have an air force.

Ok so I'll probably want to buy from my allies (France and Italy). But if this takes note with military industries, couldn't it also effect Economic. Like major manufacturing countries. Whose manufacturing industy was massive over time, wouldn't that effect it's growth and earnings. (I say this because SPain's major suppliers of wealth are manufacturing, tourism, and construction.) So it effects me greatly. SOrry this is more an economic thing, but it followed after the statement here.

You can start an army air corps if you can afford to buy an air unit from a tech level 5 nation that actually has an aviation industry

at this point that would be France, Italy, UK, Netherlands (because of Fokker), Austria, US, Russia

others will be added as the historical figures and designs they made show up (such as Rumania, Japan, Canada, Australia, etc)


Since I have several aviation pioneers who originate in Rumania, do I get to have Air Corps or havea bonus pertaining to them?

If I upgrade from a brigade to a corps I need to allow 1 year to complete upgrade, right?

The old rule about units in combat for more than 3 months having their maintenance doubled is still effect, right?

Uhhh where is the information on pilots? Do they come with the planes in the observation units? Also how many men do they take up in your limit? I am just curious about that.

Is it meant to be 2,000 rather than 20,000, because 200 men per plane seems insanely high when you consider how simple they were in those days.

When will Japan be able to produce aircraft?

Uhhh where is the information on pilots? Do they come with the planes in the observation units? Also how many men do they take up in your limit? I am just curious about that.

at tech level 5 pilots are included with the aircraft

especially as parachutes are rare and accident rates are high

In addition, aircraft models change too often for it to be worth keeping track. For example, the Albatross C, Focker Triplane and Albatross D all came out in the same year within months of each other.

Is it meant to be 2,000 rather than 20,000, because 200 men per plane seems insanely high when you consider how simple they were in those days.


actual rate for historical World War I is 10 men for every pilot or aircraft, and most aircraft carry a pilot and observer. That is the per squadron figure. Groups and Wings have more support units, including motor transport, administrative types, medical personnel, supply people, specialist mechanics and workshops, and a lot of command staff. Then you have theater level people running a seperate supply line back home for specialist equipment the regular supply line doesn't provide.

Plus additional support personnel back home (flight schools and the staff that run them, administrative types etc).

Generally, a squadron is 8 - 20 aircraft, commanded by a Major or Lt Colonel, and is the equivilant of a battalion

A group is 3 squadrons, commanded by a Colonel usually, and is equivilant to a small brigade

A Wing is 3 groups (more or less) and is commanded by a 2 Star General, and is equilivant to a division.

So 20,000 men for a Wing (which is roughly 100 aircraft) is correct historically and actually and consistant with ground units.

Incidently, as tech levels increase, even bigger units show up, Numbered Air Forces and Air Fleets, which are the equivilant of corps.

Can planes be designated as reserves?

Can planes be designated as reserves?

not yet, that is tech level 5.5

In SA, as you know, 13% of the population is White, 9% is Coloured and 3% is asian, and 75% is Black. I want to make it so that all White, Coloured, and Asian males have to serve in the military. The White Population is, lets say, 650,000 people and the Coloured and Asian is 600,000. Does that mean that I can only have 37,500 active and 87,500 reserves, or do I still use the national population as the number I get the 3% and 7% from the national total (150,000 active soldiers and 350,000 as reserves)? Of course, I would use Blacks for most logistics jobs, just not any combat jobs.

In SA, as you know, 13% of the population is White, 9% is Coloured and 3% is asian, and 75% is Black. I want to make it so that all White, Coloured, and Asian males have to serve in the military. The White Population is, lets say, 650,000 people and the Coloured and Asian is 600,000. Does that mean that I can only have 37,500 active and 87,500 reserves, or do I still use the national population as the number I get the 3% and 7% from the national total (150,000 active soldiers and 350,000 as reserves)? Of course, I would use Blacks for most logistics jobs, just not any combat jobs.

you would not be able to count the Black population. In addition to that, you will need to have a reserve police division or 2 to ensure the proper level of repression needed to maintain your society exists. 1 police division keeps 10 million people from revolting

usually

you would not be able to count the Black population. In addition to that, you will need to have a reserve police division or 2 to ensure the proper level of repression needed to maintain your society exists. 1 police division keeps 10 million people from revolting

usually

Fudge. How was RL South Africa able to field so many men in the Border War then? Of course, that war took place over 30 years and started in the 60's, so there were more Whites...

TLS: The Defense Act No 12 (passed in 1913, I believe) ordered all white males between the ages of 16 and 45 to serve in the South African Army, though the law was not enforced since there were so many volunteers. Historically, the Union military was comprised of two armies, the Union Defense Force (a small, professional force of light infantry and cavalry) and the Active Citizen Force, a much larger Landwehr-type army made up of white volunteers and conscripts. I would recommend using the historical style for now.

Also, whites were a larger percentage of the population in the early twentieth century (peaking at a little under a quarter of the total), so you'd have a larger recruitment pool. The European population didn't fall below 15% of the total until 1994, with the end of apartheid and the "white flight" of the mid-1990s.

Finally, I doubt very much that South African whites at this point will want Coloureds and Asians serving next to them in the armed forces. Asians you may be able to manage, but Coloureds are just one rung above Africans on the racial ladder of South Africa. In a couple of decades, depending on how social beliefs have shifted, you may be able to integrate the Bruin-Afrikaners into the army, and the Coloureds as a whole later on.

And just as an aside, the Border War was fought by the South African Police and South African Air Force supporting UNITA and FNLA armies in Angola. The actual South African Army didn't fight in the war.

TLS: The Defense Act No 12 (passed in 1913, I believe) ordered all white males between the ages of 16 and 45 to serve in the South African Army, though the law was not enforced since there were so many volunteers. Historically, the Union military was comprised of two armies, the Union Defense Force (a small, professional force of light infantry and cavalry) and the Active Citizen Force, a much larger Landwehr-type army made up of white volunteers and conscripts. I would recommend using the historical style for now.

Also, whites were a larger percentage of the population in the early twentieth century (peaking at a little under a quarter of the total), so you'd have a larger recruitment pool. The European population didn't fall below 15% of the total until 1994, with the end of apartheid and the "white flight" of the mid-1990s.

Finally, I doubt very much that South African whites at this point will want Coloureds and Asians serving next to them in the armed forces. Asians you may be able to manage, but Coloureds are just one rung above Africans on the racial ladder of South Africa. In a couple of decades, depending on how social beliefs have shifted, you may be able to integrate the Bruin-Afrikaners into the army, and the Coloureds as a whole later on.

And just as an aside, the Border War was fought by the South African Police and South African Air Force supporting UNITA and FNLA armies in Angola. The actual South African Army didn't fight in the war.

I didnt plan to have the Coloureds join the army now, I just wanted to speed-up the process in time for, say, WWII. Do you know how much of the country is made up of Whites at this point in history, by any chance?

Also, according to Wikipedia: "The Border War lasted 23 years and involved South Africans, Namibians, Angolans, Cubans, Russians and Americans amongst others. During that period the SADF called up more than 25,000 white male conscripts each year (for a two year tour), totalling just over half a million men, comparable to the number of conscripts used by the United States in the Vietnam War."

It may have only been Police and Air Force units, but half a million men is still a helluva lot. They didnt all serve at once, of course, but still.

effective 1912, Germany (only) can build 1 fighter plane unit. Cost is 3, maintenance 1, range 2 hexes, build time 4 months (100 aircraft).

Well if that doesn't suck. Maybe the other nations will be able to soon enough. And in 1 I gather you mean they can only have 1 unit right?

The United States is putting 20 Tech 4.5 Battleships up for sale in 1912 for 4 points each. Any interested nations should inquire on the US thread.

Rats... I'm selling/scrapping mine too. So... yeah.

Everyone wants small navies it seems. Where's the arms race?

Everyone wants small navies it seems. Where's the arms race?

Normally, arms races are for times of peace. Wars is when you destroy the military that you've spent years building :p

But he's not at war.

If anyone wants to get rid of their navies, drop a little letter by the Brazilian Navy. Half of my damn coast is under the blockade (and it's the half that I need, too!).

Well if that doesn't suck. Maybe the other nations will be able to soon enough. And in 1 I gather you mean they can only have 1 unit right?

correct on both counts

few questions:

1. You list an artillery division as available for purchse, but list only the combat stats for an artillery corp. Are we buying a corp or are the combat stats for a division?

2. What's the combat statistic for a motorized brigade?

3. How long to build a Marine Brigade? is it possible to build a Marine Division, and what's the cost?

4. When can Japan build aircraft?

ew questions:

1. You list an artillery division as available for purchse, but list only the combat stats for an artillery corp. Are we buying a corp or are the combat stats for a division?

corps, sorry I will fix that


2. What's the combat statistic for a motorized brigade?

same as a light infantry division


3. How long to build a Marine Brigade? is it possible to build a Marine Division, and what's the cost?

6 months to build a brigade, but no divisions yet


4. When can Japan build aircraft?

I am watching the situation, but not yet.. depends on the war to some extent. Historically didn't occur until 1920s

1912
Lessons of war

Army staffs looking over the last two years of fighting determine that automatic weapons and quick firing artillery give the defense a huge advantage and are mainly responsible for the frightful casualty rates suffered so far. It is also noted that light infantry used with daring and equipped with light guns and light automatic weapons has achieved several notable victories in China, South America, and in Russia.

Debate on whether that is because those units are better trained then conscript units, and that is the reason for their success continues. German officers note this and several begin discussing new tactics to make better use of infiltration instead of firepower to win through on the infantry attack.

ooc
stormtrooper units for the Germans coming soon.. next year though

IC
Meanwhile, Naval staffs note with some alarm (especially in the UK and US) that battle cruisers are eggshells armed with hammers. In both major engagements fought so far using them, they have suffered severe losses. In the Baltic 8 BCs took on 2 DNs and lost 2 of their own sunk and the remainder damaged without sinking any of the German DNs (although damaging them substantially and sinking a predreadnought).

While in the South Atlantic two BCs met and destroyed one another.

Some naval officers counter that the BCs were not used correctly in the Baltic. The role of the BC is to hunt down and destroy enemy cruisers, not duel with battleships, and that the Argentine BC Moreno did fulfill its mission by destroying the Brazilian BC and thus protecting Argentine trade.

1912 also sees the first routine use of aircraft to hunt down and destroy enemy aircraft over Russia. All nations that have aviation industries begin ordering experimental pursuit (fighter) aircraft and hope to see results by 1913 or 1914

AWW no cavalry units wiped out yet? So gather tanks are still a little ways off.

AWW no cavalry units wiped out yet? So gather tanks are still a little ways off.

lots of cavalry have been wiped out, but the Russians have no capability of building armored vehicles, and the Germans grabbed onto the idea of tanks late, and only after the British and French used them against the Germans in large numbers in 1917 and 1918 (Cambrai was the eye opener for Germany, and that was 1917). Germany grabbed onto tactical improvements instead

AHHH I see. So the only people with an edge in building tanks are the British and French. I see I see. Interesting. Of course the RUssians are at a disadvantage when it comes to fighting the German airplanes.

lots of cavalry have been wiped out, but the Russians have no capability of building armored vehicles, and the Germans grabbed onto the idea of tanks late, and only after the British and French used them against the Germans in large numbers in 1917 and 1918 (Cambrai was the eye opener for Germany, and that was 1917). Germany grabbed onto tactical improvements instead

The Russians had ideas for tanks, they just never built them. And some of the designs were crappy. But that's beside the point... ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsar_tank

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vezdekhod

The Russians also used armored cars in large numbers.


I'd also like to point out that the Russians under Brusilov used "stormtrooper" tactics. During the Brusilov offense (RL) they infiltrated to within 100 yards of the enemy lines before attacking. Brusilov also championed the idea of a short and effective artillery barrage instead of a prolonged one. Has any of this rubbed off on Stavka?

The Russians had ideas for tanks, they just never built them. And some of the designs were crappy. But that's beside the point... ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsar_tank

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vezdekhod

The Russians also used armored cars in large numbers.


I'd also like to point out that the Russians under Brusilov used "stormtrooper" tactics. During the Brusilov offense (RL) they infiltrated to within 100 yards of the enemy lines before attacking. Brusilov also championed the idea of a short and effective artillery barrage instead of a prolonged one. Has any of this rubbed off on Stavka?


problem Russians had was difficulty in coming up with light machine guns and mortars etc needed to make true stosstruppen tactics work. But you will have a chance to buy assault divisions as well.

Well the only legitimate light machine gun of WWI that didn't come to late was the British Lewis gun. Except for that they all sucked. It took the Germans til 1918 to make a sub machine gun, and the US had the BAR right at the ass end of the war. And the French Chauchet isn't even worth mentioning. So in truth everyone would have a hard time. (And Assault groups had massive casualties. That's why Germany ran out of them by the time the US arrive. They'd been hacked to peices by then.)

Well the only legitimate light machine gun of WWI that didn't come to late was the British Lewis gun. Except for that they all sucked. It took the Germans til 1918 to make a sub machine gun, and the US had the BAR right at the ass end of the war. And the French Chauchet isn't even worth mentioning. So in truth everyone would have a hard time. (And Assault groups had massive casualties. That's why Germany ran out of them by the time the US arrive. They'd been hacked to peices by then.)

however they broke the Russian Army at Riga in 1916, the Italian Army at Caperetto in 1917. and damn near won the war in 1918. So they definitely have their strengths. Germans also had sufficiently portable machine guns, plus flamethrowers, light mortars, and a light infantry gun (75 mm light artillery) that was highly useful.

The first Portuguese troops begin to board ships in Macau headed back to Portugal.
Most of the expeditionary corps is shipping back out, leaving two battalions to help train more Nationalist chinese troops.
Some of the agitation between the two govenments has been transferred to the Portuguese officers.

Uhhh the 75mm light artillery was a French gun. The Germans never had a good light artillery weapon.

ANd no that's not it. THe fact of the matter was not that they had portable machine guns. That the Germans didn't have portable machine guns was the problem. It was a problem they never solved in WWI. Just like they were too late with tanks. The German machine guns were either not reliable or too heavy. Only the British ever got past this. I know I am not supposed to disagree with the moderator, but in this I have to disagree just because it's plain wrong.

The main point, which you are missing as you are focused on hardware instead of operational concepts, is that Stosstruppen are superior because of use of combined arms tactics at a small unit level, in a day when linear tactics was the norm and combined arms was merely being discussed somewhat by everyone else. The Germans field tested their tactics against the Russians, then Italians and then used the final finished version against the British and French with near war winning success. Only the fact that Lundendorff pissed them away by failing to stick to a principal objective, and the fact that the supply situation was so dire in Germany that the breakthrough troops frequently lacked the energy (because of malnutrition) to move as fast as they did in 1914 (and that malnutrition caused them to busy themselves looting overflowing Allied supply dumps instead of pushing through to HQs) prevented these tactics from winning the war.

If the Americans hadn’t been there in sufficient strength so that the Allies could focus reserves (and have sufficient morale because of obvious help) the Germans would most likely have won their battlefield victory.

So for game purposes, Germany, because it does have a superior ability to adapt compared to everyone else because of institutional structure, gets them first. Also, the Germans did have machine guns sufficiently light enough to move forward, since they obviously used them. Below are ratings from a typical miniatures game concerning Stosstruppen. Note the equipment and training levels. This is why they will be expensive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stormtrooper

Assault Detachment (Army level) 1915-16
Units:1 | Bases:3 | Morale:Brave | Training:Great | Machine Guns:1 heavy | Mortars:1 light | Special:Starting in late 1916, may mark one base as equipped with flamethrowers.

Assault Detachment (Army level) 1917
Units:1 | Bases:3 | Morale:Reckless | Training:Great | Machine Guns:1 heavy, 1 light | Trench Mortars:1 light | Special:Mark one base as equipped with flamethrowers.

Assault Detachment (Divisional level) 1917-18
Units:1 | Bases:3 | Morale:Brave | Training:Great | Machine Guns:1 heavy | Trench Mortars:1 light

Pioneer Flamethrower Platoon (Army level) 1918
Units:3 | Bases:1 | Morale:Reckless | Training:Outstanding | Special:All bases are equipped with flamethrowers.

Assault Detachment (Army level) 1918
Units:3 | Bases:1 | Morale:Reckless | Training:Outstanding | Machine Guns:1 heavy | Trench Mortars:1 light | Special:Mark one base as equipped with flamethrowers. Unit bases may also (rarely) be SMG equipped.

note the changes over the years. In game terms, the 1914 unit is what the Germans have at this point

Fine, it's moot, but the Germans still never had good light artillery or good light machine guns. And they expected too much out of their soldiers when it came to movements. Many of the grand movements of the German army fell apart because they just went beyond what foot soldiers can be expected to pull off.

Can Russia develop effective defenses against these stormtroopers?

Yeah there is, but the French only learned how to do it on the fly. The soldiers figured it out, and high command took a long time to figure it out. And they still barely held off the Germans when they attacked in force.

GB, how long does it take to train Fortress Corps?

GB, how long does it take to train Fortress Corps?

same as heavy infantry but for different reasons

Just thinking, shouldn't seaplane tenders be available now, with France and UK not requiring any money to research, and USA needing half the amount.
Also, fighter units should now be available to Britain and France, perhaps?

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11895177&postcount=457
A suggestion on tech advancement and military equipment posted in the economic thread

If the United States has 12 Infantry Corps in Reserve, can these be upgraded to heavy infantry? If not, what is the highest standard they can be upgraded to?

If the United States has 12 Infantry Corps in Reserve, can these be upgraded to heavy infantry? If not, what is the highest standard they can be upgraded to?

The US is lucky in that it can indeed convert its reserves to heavy infantry. Profiency level is lower for reserves versus regulars, but as the US has a voluntary reserve system, its reserves have the same profiency as a lot of nations conscipt regulars.

Just thinking, shouldn't seaplane tenders be available now, with France and UK not requiring any money to research, and USA needing half the amount.
Also, fighter units should now be available to Britain and France, perhaps?

fighters for the Russians, French and Italians will be available in 1913
Seaplane tenders in 1915

Incidently, with the opening of submarine warfare against shipping and warships, Allied and Coalition nations, as well as the US and UK, can now research anti submarine warfare (so that they can develop depth charges and hydrophones)

In 1913, warring nations can start to research tanks.

This will cost 24 points, and take 2 years. At the end of the 2nd year, one free tank brigade is developed. (its effects will be a surprise).

After that, tank brigades can be built. Cost is 3 points, time is 6 months. They function much like seige artillery, and can only move 1 hex a turn. Maintenance and reliability for early tanks was awful, so annual maintenance is 2 points a year.

Additional restrictions:
1. Must be tech level 5
2. Only the US, Germany, France, United Kingdom, and Italy can research tanks, as they are the only nations with a substantive auto industry at this point.
3. Other nations can buy tanks, but their maintenance is doubled (as they have fewer people around to man them, fix them and don't have a parts industry)

Can ally nations send mechanics and the like to help them in their research? As in I can help France with some of the costs by giving them some economic help with it.

Can ally nations send mechanics and the like to help them in their research? As in I can help France with some of the costs by giving them some economic help with it.

no

Alright. So consolidating research isn't allow. Ok.

Can ally nations send mechanics and the like to help them in their research? As in I can help France with some of the costs by giving them some economic help with it.

no to mechanics, yes you can send them money

Couple of questions:

Can I upgrade my reserves to Heavy too, since I have voluntary service too?

Can the US and UK research tanks even though we're not at war?

When can the US and UK get fighter planes?

Have chemical weapons come out and what are the game mechanics for them?