NationStates Jolt Archive


OOC: Is It FT or PMT?

The Kafers
24-08-2006, 01:40
I'm getting ready to start a series of threads set in a universe which I may dub “Universe III”. In these stories, players will be required to stick as close to real science as possible. That means that many of the “staples” of FT will be missing: No FTL drives. To make this work, I'd like to take advantage of the “standard” NS time scale of 1 day = 25 years. If we assume acceleration at 1G, here are the expected trip times (in game years and/or NS days):


1 ly = 19.8 yrs (19.8 crew yrs) = 0.8 NS days


2 ly = 27.9 yr (27.8 crew yrs)s = 1.1 NS days


3 ly = 34.2 yrs (34.0 crew yrs) = 1.4 NS days


4 ly = 39.6 yrs (39.3 crew yrs) = 1.6 NS days


5 ly = 44.3 yrs (43.9 crew yrs) = 1.8 NS days


6 ly = 48.6 yrs (48.1 crew yrs) = 1.9 NS days


7 ly = 52.5 yrs (51.9 crew yrs) = 2.1 NS days


8 ly = 56.2 yrs (55.5 crew yrs) = 2.2 NS days


9 ly = 59.7 yrs (58.8 crew yrs) = 2.4 NS days


10 ly = 63.1 yrs (62.0 crew yrs) = 2.5 NS days


11 ly = 66.2 yrs (65.0 crew yrs) = 2.6 NS days


12 ly = 69.2 yrs (67.8 crew yrs) = 2.8 NS days


13ly = 72.1 yrs (70.6 crew yrs) = 2.9 NS days


14ly = 74.9 yrs (73.2 crew yrs) = 3.0 NS days


15ly = 77.7 yrs (75.8 crew yrs) = 3.1 NS days


16ly = 80.3 yrs (78.2 crew yrs) = 3.2 NS days


17ly = 82.9 yrs (80.6 crew yrs) = 3.3 NS days


18ly = 85.4 yrs (82.9 crew yrs) = 3.4 NS days


19 ly = 87.9 yrs (85.1 crew yrs) = 3.5 NS days


20 ly = 90.2 yrs (87.3 crew yrs) = 3.6 NS days


Each additional light year thereafter = ~2.4 yrs (~2.1 crew yrs) = 0.1 days

The effect of this is to allow people to develop their off-world colonies at a reasonable pace, as well as to build new starships, etc.

Trip range will be limited by endurance: how long can a starship last before it's too decrepit to fly? 50 yrs? 75 yrs? 100 yrs? That will have to be decided.


To make fueling/refueling reasonable, I'll assume that everyone is using antimatter-catalyzed RAIR (ram-augmented interstellar rockets), a modification of the Bussard ramjet. This has interesting consequences when (and if) combat occurs (since the exhaust from such an engine can be a powerful weapon).


To save people the need to build generation ships, I would like to allow crew and passengers (colonists) to be held in suspended animation (cryogenic sleep). Again, there would be limits on how long people could be so preserved similar to the limits on starship endurance.


No artificial gravity; you want gravity, you need to build a spin habitat into your ships (and preferably two, rotating in different directions). Speeding up and slowing down the habitat would take time, but much of the required energy could be transferred to flywheel storage devices to reduce the cost of spinning the platform back up to full speed.There would be other, similar changes: essentially, weaponry and technology would have to be marginally justifiable in terms of our current understanding of science.

So my question is this: would people consider this as an interstellar PMT campaign, or would folks classify this as FT?
Ocion
24-08-2006, 01:45
This sounds very interesting.

I would classify it as FT as PMT is typically taken to mean rail guns and genetic engineering and what not.
Theao
24-08-2006, 01:51
I'd personally class that as the upper edge of PMT, but still PMT.
Ocion
24-08-2006, 02:22
Let me know when you start this, I tried to start a few "low tech" FT RPs with an old nation of mine and never got anywhere with it, maybe you'll get a better response with this one.
The Cassiopeia Galaxy
24-08-2006, 02:25
I'd personally class that as the upper edge of PMT, but still PMT.

I agree with this statement!
The Aeson
24-08-2006, 02:31
I think I may get involved. Would a series of very large space stations orbiting a destroyed planet be permissible? I'm thinking there'd be scavenging from the resources of the planet, but no long term trips there, as there's a high level of radiation from the nuclear war that made them move in the first place.

Also, a partially terraformed world nearby. They melted polar ice caps and began dumping algae in the resulting oceans, but abandoned the project when their world was destroyed, so there's only thin oxygen, about Mount Everest level.

Any problems?
The Kafers
24-08-2006, 02:52
Terraforming would certainly be feasible, and O'Neill colonies could be an acceptable place for a culture to live if their homeworld had been blasted in a nuclear war.

The reason classification matters is because an “FT” label would probably attract the SW/40K gang, and this would be a serious problem. Then again, if enough people think it's FT, then it might be possible to advertise it as STL FT or something like that.
The Aeson
24-08-2006, 02:53
Terraforming would certainly be feasible, and O'Neill colonies could be an acceptable place for a culture to live if their homeworld had been blasted in a nuclear war.

O'Neil colonies? Not familiar with that term. Hold on while I wiki that...

-Edit- Looks good.
The Kafers
24-08-2006, 02:57
O'Neil colonies? Not familiar with that term. Hold on while I wiki that...Gerard O'Neill introducted the idea of floating space habitats at L4 and L5 (http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/O/ONeill_type.html) while at Princeton in 1969. He gave credit to Konstantin Tsiolkovsky for the idea.

O'Neill later published a book on the subject, called The High Frontier (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/189652267X/102-2907886-4003304?v=glance&n=283155).

BTW, The Starflight Handbook (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0471619124/ref=pd_bxgy_img_b/102-2907886-4003304?ie=UTF8) by Eugene Mallove and Gregory Matloff is an excellent resource on RL interstellar spaceflight concepts.
Theao
24-08-2006, 03:01
The reason classification matters is because an “FT” label would probably attract the SW/40K gang, and this would be a serious problem. Then again, if enough people think it's FT, then it might be possible to advertise it as STL FT or something like that.
You could use the terms Early FT or Late PMT, or just give a general 'time' period. Ie: 2040-2080, and have any tech feasibility questions dealt with in an ooc thread.
Emporer Pudu
24-08-2006, 03:01
What sort of weapons technology would be available?
The Kafers
24-08-2006, 03:12
What sort of weapons technology would be available?Well, let's see: Obviously, nuclear weapons, made more survivable through MIRVing (although one could argue that space warheads coulldn't be MIRVs because they're not RVs), decoys, and all the other strategic weapons technology that exists today.


Particle beams would be reasonable, as would be chemical lasers. Keep in mind, though, that lasers don't have much in the way of range: just a few hundred kilometers.


Bomb-pumped detonation lasers (my personal favorite, although particle beams are a close second) would be quite viable, and would have a much better range (maybe a few thousand kilometers?).


Kinetic kill vehicles (so called “smart rocks”) would be very useful weapons as well. Most people prefer to use rail guns to launch these, although missile delivery isn't out of the question.A good source for ideas on realistic weapons is the Atomic Rockets (http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/index.html) web site. I also have spreadsheets that can be used to develop realistic spacecraft and to calculate the effects of various weapons.
The Kafers
24-08-2006, 03:17
I'm also thinking of using either the actual Near Star Lists (from the ESA's Hipparcos mission, for instance) or a randomly generated star map. Players would have to be within a reasonable range of each other, but the whole idea of war at STL speeds would be a very, very interesting thing...
Toopoxia
24-08-2006, 03:39
it's called NFT (Near Future Technology) it was invented by Topal on the 29th of January this year, I was a member so of course I'll join in with this aswell, though do you mind if I use some of my slightly wanky but ok'd for PMT tech?
Otagia
24-08-2006, 03:46
Would be cool, but there is of course the slight problem that any warship that manages to get to an enemy will be hopelessly outdated after 25 years of travel...

Oh, and cool website you linked to. Still looking it over...
Emporer Pudu
24-08-2006, 03:51
I am interested in this, and will be interested in joining as soon as it is set to begin.

I will be looking to start on Terra, inside our own solar system, or its nearest equivalent.
Ocion
24-08-2006, 05:00
Would be cool, but there is of course the slight problem that any warship that manages to get to an enemy will be hopelessly outdated after 25 years of travel...

Oh, and cool website you linked to. Still looking it over...

If battles are fought over uninhabited systems it would in essaence create a "no mans land" of battleground systems. That could be pretty cool actually, with fleets of ships in various stages of obsolesence being wiped out by more advanced enemy reinforcements, at least untill the other guy sends his more advanced reinforcements. Invading a major system would be extremely difficult though.
The Kafers
26-08-2006, 16:49
Any further comments out there?
Chronosia
26-08-2006, 16:51
See, theres gonna end up being too many Universes, just like theres too many Earths. We need something along the lines of DC's "Crisis of Infinite Earths"
The Aeson
26-08-2006, 16:52
Any further comments out there?

Well, a couple of questions...

Who's the final judge of what's reasonable? (Example, how species have evolved, any tech that comes into play, etc.)

And when do we start?
The Kafers
27-08-2006, 00:34
Well, a couple of questions...

Who's the final judge of what's reasonable? (Example, how species have evolved, any tech that comes into play, etc.)

And when do we start?Actually, I was thinking it would be refereed, and that I would take that role rather than playing. Of course, we could also use consensus...

As for starting, I'm still in the planning stage.

So it seems the general opinion is that this would be PMT/NFT (which was my original question).